chandu_69

 

Devotion to GOD is a universal phenomena and not the exclusive privilege of any one religion.

Did anybody say in this forum to the contrary?.Did any hindu claim that he has exclusive privilege on god?

yes please dont go by these tantras and shaktas remember my situation.

These texts are mayavi just like maya and are deluding.

Tantra is a grey area.Anything goes in the name of Tantra.

Quran:008.067:"It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land....

Story of Bani Quraiza jews:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280:

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38: Number 4390:

I am not christian. Can't you tell from my name? Singh is King!

That is correct, manmohansingh aka subramanian swamy.The mention of Jesus is just to derail us.I understood this from your postings in world review thread.

As said by krishnaleela RKM is managed by people who have some standards.But the abuse of Avataric concept is serious in lesser known groups.

After the success of rkm numerous groups with dubious promoters have exploited this concept and abused many people.

It is my feeling that Organisations of repute like RKm should take the lead and put a stop to this abuse and destroy this concept of avathar as a commodity to be exploited.

Let the bible be intolerant. How is that relevant to the topic?

It is relevant because it is you who made the stupid statement

Forgive and forget is the basis of all religions

Here is a statement from another abrahamic religion on forgive and forget

Quran 9:29:Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Btw, recently the sikhs in taliban strong holds of pakistan were forced to pay jizya tax.

Let the bible be intolerant. How is that relevant to the topic? If someone asks a question on Krishna, you quote bible! Does that mean you can't answer questions? If bible is evil, does that necessarily mean gita, which advocates mass murder, is all good?

It is you who raised the topic of Jesus comparing with krishna.Now you are worried when raghu starts quoting bible.

Once again your puny missionary brain cannot read answers before repeating same nonsense.Me and raghu answered you telling that the war is fought in battle field between two armies.

There is no mass murder in gita.Period.Show the evidence if you have any.

Forgive and forget is the basis of all religions.

Name a religion that says unbelievers are not to be killed or not to be punished for eternity in hell except hinduism.

Forgive and forget is the basis of all religions. Jesus forgave the people who were crucifying him.

The context of jesus is entirely different .Dont mix up things.

But Krishna wanted to have revenge and ordered Arjuna to slaughter people. Isn't this a bit worrying?

Revenge?. Who gave you this idea of revenge?.

The fighting is for Dharma not revenge.Krishna didn't say go and kill people because they don't worship me.

As raghu pointed out, the war is fought in battle field with Willing combatants.

Civilians are left untouched.That is how Dharmic wars are fought.The concept of Booty/ spoils of war in which civilians are looted and their women folk are enslaved is the teaching of abrahamic religions.

Suchandra,

Adding to what jeffster wrote please find out about apostasy in islam and the punishment for apostasy (leaving islam).

. Moreover they are not presented as the central objects of worship – this is another critical point. Only those who actually follow that sampradaya are confronted with the potential need of regarding the guru as avatar.

 

Organizations like of Swaminarayan, Chaitanya and Sri Ramakrishna propagate their guru as avatar to the general public. This is the critical moving-away from previously held standards. (I wish this is not the case, but that does not matter).

This is THE critical point.

Which is the best desi medicine for sinus

ginger peppercorns and jaggery soup(kashayam) made in boiling water is a sure fire remedy for cold and sinus relief.I personally used it for severe cold.

http://www.nandyala.org/mahanandi/archives/2006/01/23/sonti-kashayam-dried-ginger-ale/

Islam is a terrific religion. As to verses inciting violence, one can say the same about Gita wherein Krishna urges Arjuna to commit mass murder. Nor is the bible any better.

It doesn't take much time for people to show their true colors .

Have you read the quran, Mr SWAMI?.

Islam verses for violence is with regards to spreading Allah's words and attacking those who don't accept Allah's words and muhammad as final messenger for all times to come.

In gita Arjuna was told not to abandon battle while he was in the battle field.There is no mass murder to kill infidels(unbeleivers).The battle is between two armies who have already assembled to fight.

Fake swamis should read the scriptures before commenting.

Chandu. Back to Islam. Your favorite peeve.

Why? does it bother you if i am knowledgeable about islam?.

he had a confidential dream last night where vishnu came as a prominent VHP leader and instructed him to behead all the muslims and establish two specific avataars--swaminarayan and chanitanya ! shhhh......... !

I neither had a dream nor i have any contacts whatsover with any hindu organisations.

Btw,Beheading is not a hindu practice.

Please check the post 96

Chandu. Back to Islam. Your favorite peeve. Please at least read the article on Sri Ramakrishna in Wikipedia before posting. Learn who Maa Bhairavi Brahmani is from that article.

But you are denying the info from wikipedia regarding left hand tantric practices of ramakrishna , so i asked you for a different source.

I said give me a break. You know what it means? It means; Stop picking on me. stop victimising me, or stop criticising me

Sorry if i gave the impression of picking you on a personal basis.I am not here to make enemies or friends.

[bTW who has vested the authority of deciding about Avataras on you?

No, i havent got any authority.But i take the lord's words to determine who is an avatar and who is not.

:Gita 4:6: Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.

4:7 Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I

descend Myself.

4:8: In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after

millennium.

So far none of the claimed avatars have annihilated the miscreants.

So if an Avatar talks about Vaishnavism, he can be worshiped. Is that the premise.

Not at all.nada , a big no.

Sri Ramakrishna talked about Bhakti, Brahman and the Upanishadic values.

That makes him a guru not avatar.

BTW there was a mention about Vamachara and Sri Ramakrishna. This is a quote from a book <cite style="font-style: normal;" class="book" id="CITEREFNeevelBardwell_L._Smith1976">Neevel, Walter G.; Bardwell L. Smith (1976). "The Transformation of Ramakrishna". Hinduism: New Essays in the History of Religions. Brill Archive. pp. 53–97.

 

All the quotes are from the same article.

 

The Wikipedia article also says

</cite>

 

I do not think the author of that book knew anything about Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Otherwise he would have never written that a Tantrik from the Gowdiya Vaishnavite Parampara taught Sri Ramakrishna Vama Marga.

 

The above quote is from

 

<cite style="font-style: normal;" class="book" id="CITEREFSen2001">Sen, Amiya P. (2001). Three essays on Sri Ramakrishna and his times. Indian Institute of Advanced Study.</cite>

 

So some unknown author goes around accusing Sri Ramakrishna of practicing Vama Marga taught by a Gaudiya Vaishnavite.

 

And expect us to believe it.

No need to believe the person who says vaishnavite was a tantric.But then who is Bhairavi Brahmani???

Ramakrishna has done tantrik practices in burial grounds is an established fact.Whether he has done those practices to prove their unsuitability is another point.

Give me a break.

Sure, you need a break and use that break to read quran to understand what ramakrishna told about islam.Whether Allah shares the same attributes as vishnu/krishna.

Find out from islamic scholars what happens(as per quran) to those who worship Kaali devi instead of Allah.

Hehe this is probably not accurate as what I'm about to say is from a movie. But in that bollywood film 'Jodhaa Akbar' he marries that woman who appears to be a Vaisnavi as it is made clear in the film that she's devoted to her. Also Akbar becomes vegetarian too.

 

Oh yeah I aslo heard one story from a devotee about how Akbar visited Vrndavan. He asked one baba for some seva and so the baba told him to fix one step. But then when Akbar saw the step he saw it was full of jewels. He went back to the baba and said "I'm sorry, but even if I sold all my kingdoms I would not be able to fix this step".

hahahahahahahahahaha

 

If Swaminarayan can worshiped in Swaminarayan temples why not Sri Ramakrishna?

 

That is the problem hinduism faces.if so and so can be an avatara why not my own guru.So you have saibaba and several such babas claiming to be avathars.

Swaminarayan Atleast talked about vaishnavism and his interpretation of vaishnavism.He didnt say outrageous things like some abrahamic jealous god who promises eternal torture for nonworship is same as vishnu.

Besides, all examples you have pointed out are relatively recent, from the time of Muslim rule onwards; hence they may represent Hinduism's attempt at incorporating the newer influence of abrahamic faiths with what was earlier. And this trend is having its problem of going overboard - that is the neo-hinduism that acts like tradition and yet is pushing the alien dimensions.

 

Some like Swami Narayan organization are very clear about their Hindu identity inspite of showing their guru as central deity - others like Ramakrishna Math, etc. are quite clear (especially in US etc) that they are "Vedantins" (representing all relgions) and their guru is incarnation of God even as Jesus, etc. This is exactly the type of subtle difference that neo-Hinduism is playing on. It needs to be understood because it tends to be abused.

 

As for Shankaracharya etc (from before Muslim, Christian rule of India), he is regarded within the smartha tradition as Shiva's incarnation; Ramanuja of Adi-Sesha; Madhva of Bhima - the link is uniformly back to our prior deities, etc in the Puranas. But are they presented by their organizations as the central deity of worship? They have themselves made it clear that they represent the Vedas and that the object of worship of their organization is "Narayana", "Ishvara", etc - again with the central deity being from the puranas. The disciple is free to regard the guru as incarnation of a deity; but this is a private aspect within the tradition - they are not trying to "make" the next public Purana around their guru making him/her the central object of worship. That trend is neo.

Excellent post putting things in perspective.

The manufacture of avtars is the bane of hinduism.

NO , in a strict sense ......

Ha, he went there but stopped shy of completing it.

vamachar deals with madya mamsha matsya mudra and maithuna . he didnt drink madya( wine) and fell into bhava just uttering the name karana(meaning wine and cause) .

Wow, Bhava of drinking wine and having sex.

Some neo-tantrik there

The wikipedia entry quoting his biographers say the same thing

quote"

He later proceeded towards tantric sadhanas, which generally include a set of heterodox practices called vamachara (left-hand path), which utilize as a means of liberation, activities like eating of parched grain, fish and meat along with drinking of wine and sexual intercourse.<sup id="cite_ref-neevel-74_42-2" class="reference">[43]</sup> According to Ramakrishna and his biographers, Ramakrishna did not directly participate in the last two of those activities, all that he needed was a suggestion of them to produce the desired result..

unQuote.

correct !! if he failed at all( as you say) it shows his intrinsic purity which prevented him from tredding on vamamarga . i can go for such a guru . i wouyldnt presurrise any one though !!!!

I didnt say it.The proof of the pudding is in the eating.Many tantriks of his time displayed their tantrik powers.

And i leave it to your judgment on his Purity that failed him in the vamamarga.

wrong again as most of the time

Most of the time may be.Did he practice Vama tantra(left handed) , yes or no?.Please answer this question.

he did not go to vamaachar out of his own will !!

Ohh i see.Did anybody force him to practice Vamatantra??.

Going by his follower's account he has apparently practiced left handed tantra but couldn't move a leaf .

So, you think a failed left hand tantrik can become a spiritual guru. Right?

acknowledging it and promoting it are not the same terms .

Hare Krishna!

 

King Akbar, arguably the greatest king ever to have ruled India, was tolerant of all religions, created a synthesis of all religions called din elahi.

SS

Din- elahi is not a synthesis it is his own version of religion.

Akbar became tolerant after he rejected Islam and not before it.

Akbar, like his predecessor muslim kings massacred hindus(as per his own chroniclers) and imposed Jizya(quran 9:29) on hindus.He stopped those practices after he rejected islam and formed his own religion which he named deen-elahi

If you choose not to believe in Brahmins,

All brahmins are not the same.I have a problem with the power hungry brahmins who think they are proprietors of dharma and not mere custodians.

then you should be consistent and reject the 4 vedas, puranas and itihasas, for all of them are from Brahmins.

Consistency is the virtue of donkeys don't you know:P

Your argument does not amount to much if you selectively pick and choose what you like and reject everything else as fabrication.

i can pick and choose because there is no single author behind the scriptures.