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Vigraha

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Everything posted by Vigraha

  1. Thanks for the reminder, time to eat the left over prasad from the Suday feast, thanks for reminding me Suchandra prabhu
  2. I Just want to clean this up. The nitya-baddha consciousness is the secondary non-Krishna conscious asoect of ALL marginal living entity. After many births and deaths in the material world, he may attempt to give up the desire for sense gratification. After being on the path of yogic disciplines, eventually after many many more life times, the embodied yogi, which is contained in an ethereal bodyconfined as their nitya-baddha lower conscious self is an secondary or inferior aspect of ones marginal identity,
  3. <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Beggar Prabhupada has said, "we are already liberated". Unfortunately it doesn't seem easy to balance all these concepts with out jumping into the deep end of the pool. In reality the deep end is on both sides of the pool - duality. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Srila Prabhupada says this because he explains,we only think, imagine or dream we are away from Krishna. Actually we don't go anywhere, we are never away from Krishna, just like the sun doesn't go anywhere when the cloud covers it. The sun is always there just like our nitya-siddha body is always there. Duality only exists when we reject Krishna, duality can only exist in the material world. We are one with ourselves serving Krishna but as soon as we reject Krishna, then their is duality - nitya-siddha and nitya baddha. As long as we are Krishna conscious, then there is no nitya baddha consciousness, just like when we clearly see the sun there is no cloud cover, or when their is light, there is no posibility for darkness. Don't get me wrong I rspect Sridhar Swami as an advanced Vaishnava and anyone who follows his teachings will achieve Godhead. In the end I don't think it really matters where we came from
  4. jyoti - light Srila Perabhupada - "It is a qualification of the great thinkers to pick up the best even from the worst. It is said that the intelligent man should pick up nectar from a stock of poison, should accept gold even from a filthy place, should accept a good and qualified wife even from an obscure family and should accept a good lesson even from a man or from a teacher who comes from the untouchables. These are some of the ethical instructions for everyone in every place without exception. Just like in India, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there? Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge. …"Calcutta, 5/17/71
  5. Intersting reading Begger, how many different impersonalist are there? When I was last in India I meet so-called yogis who believed one all-pervasive consciousness flowed through all bodily forms, how can they see Paramatma when that dark cloud of 'onesness' madness known as - 'T am you, you are me, and we are all together' , blinds them to Krishna and their own full potential of individual devotional service?
  6. The Villagers and the train - Different realizations of the absolute truth<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Many years ago, the British came to India and began building a train line between Delhi and Mathura. Many simple villages on the outskirts at the time had no idea what a train looked like, so when the time had come to greet the train, the village elders would sent a young representative down to meet the train and ascertain what it is and then come back with the news of its anticipated arrival. On the evening of its appearance, the villagers patiently and inquisitively waited in expectation and wonder of what a ‘train’ was. Eventually day turned to night and everyone in the Village became anxious and excited, knowing the train’s arrival was imminent. The fact was, no one had any inkling of what a train was. The young boy was dispatched and was told to immediately report back to the Village elder as soon as he identifies the train. Off the young boy went in the dark and began to wait patiently. The night sky was clear and there was very little breeze in the air, he could hear the usual sounds of native animals although; even they were quite on this still moonless chilly night. Then to the young boys surprise, out of the pitch black darkness and the still of night, he heard this thunderous extended high-pitched sound (the train whistles), being excited, he was convinced he now new what the train was. He immediately ran back to the village elders and excitedly told them, "The train is a big sound"<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Some of the elders were puzzled, but most accepted the news as final and that a train is just a sound. Still not convinced the train was just a sound, feeling puzzled, a few decided to send another young villager down to investigate this sound and if there was more to the train. The second young boy the villager elders sent down was told to wait well into the darkness of night until the sound came closer to him. Eventually, after hearing the sound many times in a mood of fear of the unknown and inquisitiveness of what a train really is, he finally saw in the distance an extremely bright light that scared him. The combination of the sound and the bright blinding light frightened him because he did not understand what he was experiencing! Being excited he rushed back to the elders proclaiming, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “The train is not only a sound but is also 'bright blinding light' as well” <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Many at the village where now convinced what a train was and most where satisfied however, still a few believed there might be more to a train than an impersonal sound and light. So again they sent a third young boy to investigate. He also began to patiently wait and stay for as long as it takes. He began experiencing the sound getting louder and the light getting brighter, louder and louder the sound was becoming while at the same time the light was becoming brighter and brighter - then to his surprise, both the sound and light passed him by. To his astonishment, he discovered the source of both the sound and light, coming from the form of the train. Behind the sound and light was form, or objects like carriages that are filled with people like him, all engaging in all kinds of different activities? He ran back to the village yelling, <o:p></o:p> “The train is a form from where the sound and light emanated, where people are engaged in all kinds of activity”. <o:p></o:p> They all eventually saw the train for what it really is (Personalism) Brahman therefore is held together by form BALARAMA AND KRISHNA The highest realizing is Personalism. The above painting is of Krishna and His brother Balarama whose abode Goloka-Vrindavan is beyond the impersonal light or impersonal Brahman destination of impersonalist yogis and Buddhists. There are three basic aspects of the absolute truth. The goal of human life is to perfect ones individuality, identity, Personality by serving a bonafide Spiritual Master and again begin to re-establish ones eternal relationship with Krishna. In this way one should not foolishly attempt to extinguish ones individual identity in some nonsense ‘Its all one’ atheistic madness by only mediating on the Impersonal sound Om or the Impersonal Brahmajoyti, Nirvana or Clear Light. The complete picture of Krishna’s creation can only be realized through the favour of Krishna’s Pure Devotees. The Jains, Buddhist, Impersonalists Yogis and Mayavadis are compared to the villager hearing the sound or only seeing the light and foolishly believing that formless impersonalism is the ‘Absolute Truth’. They are not seeing the bigger picture of what the Absolute Truth really is as described in the previous narrative about the train. The Impersonalist Yogi. The Impersonalist Yogis, Mayavadis and Buddhists version of Brahmajyoti (Nirvana) is ONE all pervasive life force with no individuality or identity which is really atheism. Impersonalist yogis, Mayavadis and Buddhists do not believe in individual souls (jivas). They therefore believe the ultimate end of existence is to perfect their constitution by accumulating the knowledge (cit) of how to end the cycle of birth and death (karma), then merge their consciousness into the oneness of Nirvana (void or light) like rivers flow into the ocean, denying the existence of identity, individuality, personality and perpetual bodily form. The impersonal Brahmajyoti is where individual nitya-baddha-souls (impersonalist yogis) remain dormant without having any knowledge of their original and eternal nitya-siddha bodily form. This state of suspended animation and forgetfulness is also known as Impersonalism. Even this state of inactive dreamless existence in the Brahmajoyti is temporary, although it may seem to lasts for an almost a time without end, in the face of the eternal 'prsents' in Goloka, it is only less than a moment. They therefore cannot understand the eternal unchanging perpetual Krishna Conscious living universe (Goloka) where a blissful loving relationship exists with Krishna and His eternal associates. This Perpetual Living Universe of Lord Krishna’s is beyond the cloud cover known as the material creation or mahat-tattva. Srila Prabhupada says – “where there is light there is no darkness’.
  7. Maybe that's referring to engaging in service and chanting Hare Krishna, going on Sankirtan associating with devotees etc and not being attached to only Knowledge. Living the Bhagavatam is Knowing the Bhagavatam. http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:aXT927wSGwQJ:www.utahkrishnas.com/main/page.asp%3Fid%3D981+the+jnani+and+the+street+sweeper&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au
  8. Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha George, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> I apologize for my frivolity Guruvani Prabhu, I have corrected the mistakes
  9. Srila PrabhupAda: 'So when you engage yourself in the soul's activities, then gradually your intelligence, mind, senses, become spiritualized, or original. Then material activities stop. At the present moment without (indistinct) spiritually (indistinct) we are acting on the platform of gross senses. But if we begin our activities from the opposite side, from the soul side, then everything becomes spiritualized. But the question of giving up the senses, no, it has to be purified. SarvopAdhi-vinirmuktaM tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Senses (indistinct) it should be purified. Srila PrabhupAda: "One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books... One must accept a Vaisnava guru (adau gurv-asrayam), and then by questions and answers one should gradually learn what pure devotional service to Krsna is. That is called the parampara system." (Cc. Antya-lila 7.53, purp.) — AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
  10. When Srila Prabhupada said to Rupanuga Maharaja - 'You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service". He always viewed them as his Godbrothers and followers of Lord Caitanya, his main criticism is that they did not preach however Srila Prabhupadas own Preaching changed that and today many Gaudiya math Temples are also now found around the world. Srila Prabhupadas ISKCON awakened the preaching spirit within the Gaudiya math and now we see Narayana Maharaj travelling all over the world, even though a different branch of Lord Caitanya's tree than ISKCON, it is still the real thing, a diamond with the purpose of awakening ones Krishna conscious. Without any doubt whatsoever, they are a bonafide pathway back home back to Godhead. There are obviously philosophical differences between ISKCON and Sridar Maharaj, Narayana Maharaj followers nevertheless; the end goal is exactly the same - servant of the servant of Krishna. I am now realizing that this is my most important realization. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
  11. Guruvani prabhu, no-one would say that. You have put an interpretation on what some have written. I personally see Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj as another bonafide branch of Lord Caitanya's tree and NOT on the level of a glass imitation - they are the real thing, they are also dear friends of Srila Prabhupada, they are diamonds in the Vaishnava tradition of Lord Caitanya however, regardless of the different philosophical viewpoints, we all must acknowledge the fact that without Srila Prabhupada, very few would of known Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
  12. I just listened to that lecture from Ramai Swami and just like realist jumped to concocted conclusions about his very inspiring class, you have put an interpretation on what I have said. I was not referring to Sridhar Maharaj or Narayana Maharaj, in fact I see them as another bonafide branch of Lord Caitanya's tree and NOT on the level of a glass imitation - they are the real thing, great devotees of Krishna and dear friends of Srila Prabhupada, they are diamonds in the Vaishnava tradition of Lord Caitanya however, regardless of the different philosophical viewpoints, we all must acknowledge the fact that without Srila Prabhupada, very few of us would of known Sridhar Maharaj and Narayana Maharaj. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
  13. I've read this over and over again, except for the critizism of Ramai Swami, this post is really not that bad. I travelled with Ramai Swami some years ago, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service and preaches to the devotees. Anyway here is that lecture that I found interesting Srimad Bhagavatam 10.70.31The scriptures says it all and one does not have to speculate 9.3MB # Posted by Vijaya.Thyil at 13/11/07; 9:28:50 AM to the Daily Class dept. Comment (0) Trackback [0] Daily Class - Ramai Swami Srimad Bhagavatam 10.70.38 - Krsna's purposes are inconceivable 7.8MB # Posted by Vijaya.Thyil at 14/11/07; 10:17:23 AM to the D Daily Class - Ramai Swami Srimad Bhagavatam 10.70.31The scriptures says it all and one does not have to speculate 9.3MB # Posted by Vijaya.Thyil at 13/11/07; 9:28:50 AM to the Daily Class dept.
  14. irupati 28 April, 1974 Washington D.C. My dear Rupanuga Maharaja, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of April 17, from Washington D.C. and I have very carefully noted the contents. You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my Godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broacast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
  15. I was really moved reading this post from deep in the heart of theist. Theist you humbly bring Vaishnava etiquette to all these threads however, we must not get complacent or sentimental because, as you know, not all paths including those claiming they are Vaishnava's, lead to Krishna. We must learn to tell the difference between a real diamond and the glass imitation. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
  16. Nice and intelligent posting, maybe realist can learn something from this and stop being bitter and allowing the past to eat away at him, thats what it seems to me. Ramai Swami should be given the credit of maintaing his Krishna consciousness over the last 34 years. Realist learn to forgive and get over it!
  17. 'Small' things, mistakes, what ever amuse small minds Anyway here is more nector When one has finally re-established themselves as who they really are in the perpetual present, (their endless nitya-siddha-svarupa body that is eternally their Krishna Conscious identity), the dark troublesome cloud of past, present, future and ENVY found within that IGNORANT mahat-tattva covering, will be lifted and will no longer exists just as darkness can no longer exist in the presents of light. When one reaches this realization, one's so called fall down will be as if it never happened. "Never happened" because there is no past tense AT ALL in Goloka. There is only the transcendental pastimes of Krishna, His expansions and MARGINAL devotee's. ALL of us therefore have our eternal 'svarupa' body already situated in Goloka JIVA-JAGO Wake up, and come out from under all those layers of ignorance covering your real authentic, geniune nitya-siddha body.
  18. I cannot agree with Sridar Maharaj or Narayana Maharaj's understanding of the origin of the jiva soul. There understanding IS NOT the teachings of Srila Prabhupada When one is in Goloka, does one really care what material body they had in the material world After all, we have had billions of them. Isn't the eternal 'present' in Goloka and Vaikuntha beyond the concept of past, present and future in the material world ot mahat-tattva? Which means our perpetual Krishna Consciousness will have no interest in what we were in the past in the material world, nor the future in the material world because we will be too absorbed in our devotional service in the eternal 'presents in Goloka' serving Krishna. Such loving service, always thinking of pleasing the object of our love with unconditional service actually does not allow one the memory of past, present and future of the material 'dream''world and its extended bye product of decay, forgettfulness, changing bodies, to exist. Why would one want to remember 'that which is not' (Maya)? In fact it is not possible in Goloka because the only reality is Krishna and His dear pure devotees and maya cannot exist there. However if one looks up into the Spiritual Sky in Krishna Lila, they may see a insignificant dark cloud although, like everything else if Goloka, that cloud (mahat-tattva) will only be another aspect of Krishna's beauty in the color of a monsoon cloud Srila Prabhupada - The living entity's constitutional position is to be a servitor; he has to serve either the illusory Maya or the Supreme Lord. If he serves the Supreme Lord he is in his normal condition, but if he prefers to serve the illusory, external energy, then certainly he will be in bondage. Srila Prabhupada - In illusion the living entity is serving in this material world. He is bound by his lust and desires, yet he thinks of himself as the master of the world. This is called illusion. Srila Prabhupada - When a person is liberated, his illusion is over, and he voluntarily surrenders unto the Supreme to act according to His desires. Srila Prabhupada - The last illusion, the last snare of Maya to trap the living entity, is the proposition that he is God. The living entity thinks that he is no longer a conditioned soul, but God. He is so unintelligent that he does not think that if he were God, then how could he be in doubt? That he does not consider. So that is the last snare of illusion. Srila Prabhupada - Actually to become free from the illusory energy is to understand Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and agree to act according to His order. Srila Prabhupada - Real knowledge is the understanding that every living being is eternally a servitor of the Lord, but instead of thinking oneself in that position, the living entity thinks that he is not a servant, that he is the master of this material world, for he wants to lord it over the material nature. That is his illusion. This illusion can be overcome by the mercy of the Lord or by the mercy of a pure devotee. When that illusion is over, one agrees to act in Krishna consciousness. Srila Prabhupada - A conditioned soul, illusioned by the external energy of matter, does not know that the Supreme Lord is the master who is full of knowledge and who is the proprietor of everything. Srila Prabhupada - One who does not know Him (Krishna) is under the spell of illusion; he does not become a devotee, but a servitor of Maya. Arjuna, however, after hearing Bhagavad-gita from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, became free from all illusion. - All quotes from http://vedabase.net/bg/18/73/en1 B.G. 18.73 Srila Prabhupada - As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krishna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere, called Maya, or illusion. And what is this illusion? The illusion is that we are all trying to be lords of material nature, while actually we are under the grip of her stringent laws. When a servant artificially tries to imitate the all-powerful master, he is said to be in illusion. Translation to the Hare Krishna mantra 1966 When the mayavadi's say the world is an illusion, to them nothing is real because they have no concept that Krishna is the Supreme Creator and enjoys His eternal pastimes in the eternal 'presents’ or Goloka, the permanent imperishable Krishna Conscious Spiritual Sky. The devotees on the other hand see that if it is not permanent, then it is illusion, only because it does not include Krishna. In this way, that which is illusion means it is temporary, decaying, fading, to the point that eventually it will appear as if it never was – that which is not - Maya. Srila Prabhupada clearly explains here how the non-Krishna conscious dreams (nitya-baddha consciousness) that are sub-consciously separate from ones marginal nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa body, are then transferred to the ‘creation for the dreaming’ known as the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. This secondary (conditioned) extension of the marginal living entities is known as the nitya-baddha condition of restricted self centred thoughts and awareness manifesting in a dreaming condition of non-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires Srila Prabhupada - 'There is possibility (falling from Vaikuntha), if you do not stick to the spiritual principle, even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no contaminated soul can stay there. He will fall down'. Bhag.-Gita class, Honolulu: July 4, 1974) Srila Prabhupada - “We wanted to give up Krishna.” Srila Prabhupada therefore clearly telling us that we have never been always conditioned because factually our svarupa body is always in Goloka, only our 'dreaming' consciousness comes to the mahat-tattva from Vaikuntha, although as complicated as it may be to understand, our nitya-baddha conscious condition is only temporarily exists. In this way, just as the sun dissipates the darkness, when one is fully established as their nitya-siddha authentic eternal body, the darkness or the nitya-baddha counterfeit consciousness will simply not exist. This is because our non-Krishna conscious desires or the nitya-baddha feature of ones marginal identity can never exist in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha. Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 Srila Prabhupada's- "Foolish people deny the existence of the soul, but it is a fact that when we sleep we forget the identity of the material body and when we awake we forget the identity of the subtle body. In other words, while sleeping we forget the activities of the gross body, and when active in the gross body we forget the activities of sleeping". Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.29.71 Srila Prabhupada - "Actually both states — sleeping and waking — are creations of the illusory energy. The living entity actually has no connection with either the activities of sleep or the activities of the so-called wakened state".Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.29.71 Srila Prabhupada -“The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
  19. http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:SjkzdBzbmDgJ:iskcon.krishna.org/Letters/2000/08/L00027.html+PRABHUPADA+AVOID+SRIDHAR+SWAMI&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=au My Godbrothers have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broacast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (01-14-07) Tirupati 28 April, 1974 Washington D.C. My dear Rupanuga Maharaja, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of April 17, from Washington D.C. and I have very carefully noted the contents. You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my Godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broacast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
  20. Shiva says - 'That is not quite right. A metaphor doesn’t imply that something is not real, it implies that something, like an idea or word or conception, is representing or designating another. If the conception of Maha Vishnu dreaming is not a metaphor then it is literal. In fact it cannot be literal because Maha Vishnu is a swamsa or plenary expansion of Krsna i.e. Maha Vishnu is Krsna'. It is a fact that Maha-Vishnu is laying down dreaming and His DREAM IS THE MATERIAL CREATION OR MAHAT-TATTVA “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.”Purport to SB. 4.29.83. This description of the material dreaming characteristic of our marginal (nitya-baddha identity) has been a controversial subject for so long however, Shiva must understand that the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and the dreams of the marginal living entity, that takes residence within Maha-Vishnu’s material dreaming creation, are certainly not on the same 'mental' state' of illusionary dreams that we all have in our present material biological bodies. No, it is not like that interpretation of the word dream. Maha-Vishnu is sleeping and dreaming and our bodily vessels and their surroundings are all part and parcel of His mahat-tattva dream "The modes of nature divide the soul's consciousness into normal wakefulness, dreaming and dreamless sleep. All such varieties of perception, however, are actually Maya and exist only like a dream". Text 34 Purport Canto 11 Srila Prabhuapada calls non-Krishna Conscious thoughts, dreams and says we are ‘thinking’ or ‘dreaming’ that we are separated from Krishna but actually there is simply a cloud covering our vision of seeing Krishna and who we really are. What does this mean The secondary nitya-baddha 'dreaming' conscious state of the jiva-tatastha, is an authentic and real condition that ALL living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will and ignore Krishna and their authentic 'svarupa' body they serve Krishna as. The permanent bodily Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha feature of the marginal living entity is the bona fide permanent spiritual identity that ALL marginal living entities are endowed with. Srila Prabhupada - "Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there”. Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka Srila Prabhupada also uses the analogy of the cloud covering the sun, its not that the sun is not there, but rather is that we cannot see the sun similarly, the nitya-baddha consciousness is like the cloud and the only when that cloud (nitya-baddha consciousness) dissipates, can we see the sun or our true perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha bodily identity. The problem with the dream analogy is many foolishly relate this dream state with the biological body of nine gates. This is due to not understanding what the 'dream' means in this context in relation to maha-Vishnu. The DREAMING CONCEPT simply means we have ALL come down from Goloka and our consciousness has become covered like a cloud covers the sun, or like dust covers the mirror or like smoke covers the fire - dreaming simply means being covered to the point you cannot see who you really are, just like in the dark, one cannot see themselves and those around them due to the absents of light, therefore, presently a blanket of 'darkness' covers the marginal living entity in the material world, that 'blanket of darness' is called the nitya-baddha consciousness. The uncovered state is ones real eternal DEVOTIONALLY ACTIVE BODILY identity called the nitya-siddha genuin self that perpetually resides in Krishna's eternal pastimes in Goloka. The marginal living entity therefore can choose to use their 'marginal' freewill and venture as the non-Krishna Conscious covered nitya-baddha characteristic (the covered state) of their marginal identity to the mahat-tattva 'dreaming' creation of Maha-Vishnu. The nitya-baddha consciousness therefore is an existent living part and parcel of ones own marginal potency or individual identity that is a secondary feature of the individual living entity that’s restricted view simply manifests due to ones REAL authentic nitya-siddha bodily identity being covered like the cloud blocks out the sun or like ones dreams at night makes one forget their present body. In this way the mahat-tattva DREAM is real, however it is also temporary due to its fading scenery of past, prsent and future and that is why it is called illusion, that which is not - Maya. Each living entity has their ceaseless nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily identity in Goloka or Vaikuntha and also has the ability, due to the freedom to choose, to arouse their non-Krishna conscious desire, thoughts and imaginings that ARE like a dark cloud that covers ones perpetual ‘svarupa’ identity. This ‘lower self or secondary consciousness’ blocks out ones awareness, service and vision of real permanent self and is known as ones nitya-baddha COVERED consciousness, a state of restricted perception that all marginal living entities can trigger (be covered by) if they no longer want to stay with Krishna in Goloka.. In this way this attribute within the mahat-tattva or material creation and the impersonal Brahmajyoti, ones jiva-soul identity is 10,000th the size of a tip of hair IN OUR dimension of awareness within the maha-tattva, AND can also move on to a dreamless dormant state within the impersonal trait of the Brahmajyoti that can only also exist outside the personal active realm of Goloka and Vaikuntha. The Impersonal feature of Brahman or the Brahmajyoti cannot exist as independent effulgence because factually that effulgence IS the marginal living entities secondary nitya-baddha consciousness in an inactive dormant dreamless state. Srila Prabhupada says that only those who DO NOT 'DREAM' of selfish independance in the material world with their mistaken desires, thoughts, aspirations and imaginations of grandur, are in always Goloka in their original bodily constitutional position and Never FALL DOWN OR COME DOWN to the material creation. They have chosen to NEVER dreamin of the material world. This means prsently we are caught up in a dream we think is real but in comparison to the eternal 'presents' in Goloka, it is only real for a short time, then fades away to the point that it never was, hence the meaning of Maya, that which is not. THIS IS WHAT THE WORD DREAM MEANS IN THIS ABSOLUE CONTEXT. The dream we are presently having in the material creation or mahat-tattva, that IS our material body and mind and its surroundings, is an illusion (that is real but temporary) created by Maha-Vishnu; hence dream means illusion in the material world, something that fades away to the point that it will seem that it never really existed. Real existence is permanent and never fades away. Therefore the material 'dream' existence is real, but only temporarily real. Eventually your material body and mine will be as if it never was, as if it never even existed in the first place. Srila Prabhupada - "Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. That is the secret understanding in all Vedic literature" Text 1b:Canto 4 Purport Srimad Bhagavatam Srila Prabhupada - "One is actually dreaming due to incomplete knowledge, just as one may dream that one has wakened from a dream". Canto 11 Text 30 Purport Srila Prabhupada - "As an object of enjoyment or a permanent residence for the conditioned souls, the material universe is certainly illusion, nothing more than a dream. One may give the analogy that the vision of abundant water in a desert is no more than a dream, although real water exists elsewhere. Similarly, the vision of home, happiness and reality within matter is certainly no better than a foolish dream in which repeated miseries appear. In another sense, however, the universe is real. In his commentary on Vedanta-sūtra, Śrīla Madhvācārya has confirmed this by quoting the following statement from the Vedic śruti-mantras: satyam hy evedam viśvam asrjata. "This universe, created by the Lord, is real." The perfect authority of the Vedas thus certifies this universe to be real; nevertheless, because our knowledge is stolen by illusion (as indicated here by the words asta-dhisanam), we cannot properly understand this universe or the Supreme Lord who has created it. As the expansion of Lord Krishna, the universe is real and is meant for being engaged in His service. One who accepts the kingdom of God as home, the Lord Himself as the object of love, and the material universe as paraphernalia for being engaged in the Lord's service dwells within eternal reality wherever he may go within the material and spiritual worlds".Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.14.22 Purport
  21. Thats why I accept the undertsanding of Srila Prabhupadas books from the great visionary Sarva-gattah
  22. Spoke to him yesterday, this is his solid position <TABLE id=header cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD id=logo> Jayadvaita Swami Personal site </TD><TD id=menu> log in or register (why register?) </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE id=content cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD id=sidebar-left>Writings <LI class=collapsed> Social commentary <LI class=collapsed>About 9/11 <LI class=expanded>Philosophy and spirituality Navigation Site map </TD><TD vAlign=top>Home » Philosophy and spirituality Where Do the Fallen Souls Fall From? Philosophy and spirituality On learning that the material world is not our real home, we naturally wonder, “How did we get here?” by Jayadvaita Swami from Back to Godhead, May-June 1993 When we hear that we live in this material world because we are “fallen souls,” it’s natural for us to ask, “Where have we fallen from?” Srila Prabhupada says that as living souls we are all originally Krishna conscious. But what does that mean? Were we all originally with Krishna in the spiritual world? And if so, how could we ever have fallen? In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna says, “Once you attain to that spiritual world, you never fall.” So how then could we have fallen from there to begin with? Some have tried to work around this problem by suggesting a different idea: We fell not from Krishna’s personal abode but from the brahmajyoti, the effulgent light that surrounds it. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, yogis who seek the impersonal aspect of the Supreme may merge into that effulgent light—only to fall back later to the material world. Perhaps, then, we originally fell from the brahmajyoti. Srila Prabhupada rejected this idea. Those in the brahmajyoti, he wrote, are not Krishna conscious, so they too are fallen. “So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.” Well, then, since we’re called “eternally conditioned,” eternally illusioned, perhaps we’ve never really fallen at all—we’ve just always been down. That idea, too, Srila Prabhupada rejected. “Eternally conditioned,” he explained, simply means that we’ve been down so long that when we fell is no longer possible to know. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, three generations before Srila Prabhupada in the line of spiritual teachers, put it this way: “Please avoid the misleading question ‘When were these jivas [living beings] created and enthralled?’ The Mayik time has no existence in spiritual history, because it has its commencement after the enthrallment of jivas, and you cannot, therefore, employ Mayik chronology in matters like these.” “The Relationship is Eternal” Here, then, is how Srila Prabhupada described our original state and the way we fall and leave it. “Constitutionally,” he said in one letter, “every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikunthaloka [the personal spiritual abode of the Lord], has a chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy.” “Usually,” he explained, “anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misuse of his independence.” In another letter, Srila Prabhupada gave further insights. “We are always with Krishna. Where is Krishna not present?” But “when we forget this fact we are far, far away from Him. In the Isopanisad it is clearly stated, tad dure tad v antike: ‘He is very far away, but He is very near as well.’ (Isopanisad, Mantra Five). So this forgetfulness is our falldown. It can take place at any moment, and we can counteract this forgetfulness immediately by rising to the platform of Krishna consciousness.” Our relationship with Krishna is never lost, Srila Prabhupada said. “Simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya. So it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of Krishna, and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krishna is eternal, as both Krishna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.” In still another letter, Srila Prabhupada restated this in yet another way: “We are all originally situated on the platform of Krishna consciousness in our eternal personal relationship of love of Krishna. But due to forgetfulness we become familiar with the material world, or maya.” But when we chant the Hare Krishna mantra sincerely and without offense, our original Krishna consciousness is at once revived. “So naturally everything about Krishna is originally known to us all, and as soon as we begin to associate with the devotees of the Lord and chant His holy name, this memory gradually becomes stronger as we remember our constitutional position of always serving Krishna in different ways.” Our separation from Krishna, Srila Prabhupada taught, is like a dream. We dream, “I am this body,” and we dream of happiness in material relationships. This dreaming condition is our non-liberated state. But although this state of dreaming may seem to last for lifetimes, as soon as we become Krishna conscious we awaken, and the dream at once disappears. “After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila [pastimes] of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, like dreaming.” Don’t Figure It Out—Get Out Ultimately, Srila Prabhupada would stress, puzzling over when we fell or where we fell from won’t solve our problem. “The conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krishna consciousness and immediately join Krishna.” Again: “One should know he is in conditioned life and try to cure it… . Forgetfulness of Krishna is the disease, so let us keep ourselves always in Krishna consciousness and get out of the disease. That is healthy life.” Still again: “Rather than taking account of how things happened that [we] came here, our best occupation is to get out of the scene by constantly chanting Hare Krishna and being engaged in the transcendental service of Lord Krishna.” The advice is clear enough. But still the intellect hangs on, trying to figure out what can’t be figured out. So we delve into books to find out what was taught by other great acaryas (spiritual teachers) of the past. And what do we find? Different teachers—all Krishna conscious—seem to express different views. So then what? We take sides with one view or another, or simply become confused. Our mental circuits start to burn out. Srila Prabhupada’s spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, therefore gave this advice. We should avoid, he said, “vain empirical wranglings,” which he called “false and full of specious verbosity.” He reminds us, “What the unalloyed devotee of the Supreme Lord says is all true and is independent of any consideration of unwholesome pros and cons.” When such pure devotees disagree, he says, there is “the element of mystery in their verbal controversies.” And “those whose judgment is made of mundane stuff” can’t “enter into the spirit of the all-loving controversies among pure devotees.” Lacking pure devotion, such people “are apt to impute to the devotees their own defects of partisanship and opposing views.” Therefore, he counsels, whenever such disputes arise about the pastimes of the Lord, we should remember what was taught by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His associates the Gosvamis, “that the Truth Absolute is ever characterized by spiritual variegatedness that transcends the variegatedness of mundane phenomena; but He is never featureless.” Endless Arguments: Maya’s Trick The Mahabharata tells us that we can’t know the truth simply by logic and arguments (tarko ‘pratistah). Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet: “There’s no use arguing over that which is inconceivable.” After all, it’s inconceivable. Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, one of Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers, respected for his deep philosophical realization, used to stress the same point, one of his followers told us. Repeatedly asked about where the living beings fell from, Srila Sridhara Maharaja grew weary of the question. “Why do you always ask about the most difficult thing to understand?” he once responded. “Why not try to understand the most easy thing?” That is: how to become Krishna conscious and go back to Godhead. Pure devotees of Krishna avoid endless arguments. Such devotees know that such arguments are merely another distraction offered by maya. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam (6.4.31): yac-chaktayo vadatam vadinam vai vivada-samvada-bhuvo bhavanti kurvanti caisam muhur atma-moham tasmai namo ’nanta-gunaya bhumne “Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the all-pervading Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has unlimited transcendental qualities. Acting from within the cores of the hearts of all philosophers, who propagate various views, He makes them forget their own souls while sometimes agreeing and sometimes disagreeing among themselves. Thus He creates within this material world a situation in which they are unable to come to a conclusion. I offer my obeisances unto Him.” Therefore, the student in transcendental science is best advised to simply accept what has been accepted by his own bona fide Krishna conscious acarya, or spiritual master. As Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura says, “It is a great offense to disrespect the acarya and to seek to establish a different doctrine in opposition to him.” The Crow-and-Fruit Philosophy To illustrate the uselessness of arguing about where the soul fell from, Srila Prabhupada once gave the example of the crow and the fruit of an Indian palm, the tal fruit. On the top of a tree was a nice tal fruit. A crow went there and the fruit fell down. Some learned scholars saw this and began discussing. The fruit fell because the crow shook the limb, one said. No, said another, as the crow was landing the fruit happened to fall. This frightened the crow, so the crow flew away. No, said a third, the fruit was ripe, and the weight of the crow’s landing broke the fruit from the branch… . “What is the use of such discussion?” Srila Prabhupada said. Whether we came from Krishna’s pastimes or from some other spiritual source, Srila Prabhupada said, “at the present you are in neither. So the best policy is to develop your Krishna consciousness and go there [to Krishna], never mind what is your origin.” “At the present moment you are in maya’s clutches,” he wrote, “so our only hope is to become Krishna conscious and go back to home, back to Godhead.” Don’t waste time with the crow-and-tal-fruit logic, Srila Prabhupada advised. “Now the fruit is there. Take it and enjoy.” NOTE: The letters from Srila Prabhupada quoted in this article appear at greater length in Srila Prabhupada Siksamrta, Volume Two, pages 1157–1176. The quotations from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura come from his commentary on Sri Brahma-samhita. The quotation from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura comes from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu—His Life and Precepts. » Login or register to post comments </TD><TD id=sidebar-right>Search <FORM id=search-block-form action=/search/node method=post><INPUT class=form-text id=edit-search-block-form-keys title="Enter the terms you wish to search for." maxLength=128 size=15 name=search_block_form_keys> <INPUT class=form-submit id=edit-submit type=submit value=Search name=op> <INPUT id=edit-search-block-form type=hidden value=search_block_form name=form_id> </FORM> About Jayadvaita Swami <LI class=leaf> Biodata <LI class=leaf>Itinerary Availability Audio <LI class=leaf> Classes and seminars Ringtones Other sites <LI class=leaf> The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust <LI class=leaf>Friends of the BBT <LI class=leaf>Krishna.com Kadamba Kanana Swami Recent comments How to get a ringtone to your phone 1 week 2 days ago 9/11: your lecture in Chowpatty 3 weeks 2 hours ago ringtones 3 weeks 18 hours ago God, gods and translation 7 weeks 5 days ago God, gods and translation 8 weeks 4 days ago </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> © Jayadvaita Swami. 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  23. What a load of nonsense towards a great devotee of Krishna and dear disciple of Srila Prabhupada Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Sarva gattah Here is the offical ISKCON BBT understanding on this subject and that we ALL came from Goloka http://www.jswami.info/jiva </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->BBT and ISKCON is nicely represented by Jayadvaita Swami, the bonafide authority of Srila Prabhupada's books wonderful books, letters, morning walks and lectures
  24. Quote by Guruvani <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 19.139 keśāgra-śateka-bhāga punaḥ śatāḿśa kari tāra sama sūkṣma jīvera 'svarūpa' vicāri SYNONYMS keśa-agra — from the tip of a hair; śata-eka — one hundred; bhāga — divisions; punaḥ — again; śata-aḿśa — one hundred divisions; kari — making; tāra sama — equal to that; sūkṣma — very fine; jīvera — of the living entity; svarūpa — the actual form; vicāri — I consider. TRANSLATION "The length and breadth of the living entity is described as one ten-thousandth part of the tip of a hair. This is the original subtle nature of the living entity. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Srila Prabhupada “The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Krsna that the impersonal Brahman is the expansive effulgence of His transcendental body, or that Paramatma is His all-pervading plenary expansion as the Supersoul. They cannot understand that Krsna has an eternal form of perfect bliss and knowledge and that they also have an eternal spiritual identity” Srila Prabhupada's Sri Isopanisad Mantra Twelve <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> In the Sri Caitanya Caritamrta the nitya-baddha condition of the marginal living entity is clearly described in the following quotes - "<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "My dear Rupa, please listen to Me. It is not possible to describe devotional service completely; therefore I am just trying to give you a synopsis of the symptoms of devotional service" Sri Caitanya Caritamr?ta Madhya 19.137 Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu then explains the jiva’s fall down and how one is covered within the mahat-tattva (material creation) only.'Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, ‘the ocean of the transcendental mellows of devotional service is so big that no one can estimate its length and breadth. However, just to help you taste it, I am describing but one drop. In this universe there are limitless living entities in 8,400,000 species, and all are wandering within this universe. The length and breadth of the living entity is described as <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comone ten</st1:time>-thousandth part of the tip of a hair. This is the original subtle nature of the living entity. If we divide the tip of a hair into a hundred parts and then take one of these parts and divide it again into a hundred parts that very fine division is the size of but one of the numberless living entities. They are all cit-kan?a, particles of spirit, not matter. If we divide the tip of a hair into one hundred parts and then take one part and divide this into another one hundred parts, that ten-thousandth part is the dimension of the living entity. This is the verdict of the chief Vedic mantras. [Lord Kr?s?n?a says:] 'Among minute particles, I am the living entity. "Sri Caitanya Caritamr?ta Madhya 19.138- 142<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “So when someone asks, when did we come into contact with the material nature?” The answer is that we have not come into contact. By the influence of the material energy we THINK that we are in contact. Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. We have simply created a situation.....<st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> ...“All right. You want to imitate? You want to be an imitation king on the stage’- <st1:City><st1:place>Tokyo</st1:place></st1:City> in 1972 <o:p></o:p> All descriptions of the marginal living entity as spiritual sparks, atoms, molecules or rays of sunshine is also further clarified by Srila Prabhupada. Here he explains that originally all living entities have a constitutional bodily source <o:p></o:p>
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