Vigraha

Because the Kingdom of God is an Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime, can change in the spiritual universe). On the other hand eternally conditioned or nitya-baddha is only a temporary stated of consciousness of the marginal living entity as Explained by Srila Prabhupada - Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, NOTE - Eternally conditioned means nitya baddha Eternally liberated means nitya siddha Only nitya siddha is truly perpetual

Because the Kingdom of God is an Eternal Personal Active Loving Devotional Place that is ever lasting and never aging, the nitya-siddha-svarupa bodies are always there – Nitya-siddha means — eternally established. This is what permanence, perpetual and eternity means – no beginning, no end and never changing (although lila-rasa — the mellows of a pastime, can change in the spiritual universe). Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”. Acyutananda - “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.” Srila Prabhupada - “But if he likes, he can return”. Acyutananda - “He can return”. Srila Prabhupada - “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”.Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada The full expression and perpetual originality of jiva tatastha is not impersonal as some sects believe. This MEANS jiva-tatastha is eternally represented by their endless nitya-siddha body in Goloka AND not as some impersonal inactive state in-between the Vaikunthas and the mahat-tattva that has confused the meaning of the word tatastha. Only in this way does the marginal living entity or jiva-tatastha, from’ time’ to ‘time’, misuse their free will and choose to forget Krishna and the continual nitya-siddha body they serve Krishna as, and set in motion their lower nitya-baddha consciousness that enters the mahat-tattva and ‘rents’ temporary bodily vessels (dreams that are real but temporary) off Maha-Vishnu that always belong to Maha-Vishnu’s ‘thoughts’, making Him always the doer and not the nitya-baddha consciousness When the Gita says we are not the doer of activities it means that all activities in the material creation are actually the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. He is dreaming all ethereal, biological vessels and their innate surrounding (which is ALL collectively the mahat-tattva except for the visiting nitya-baddha consciousness or jiva-tatastha, jiva-s’akti etc as Prabhupada explains - “The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature”.Chapter 3. Karma-yoga text 27 “The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Ch 3 txt 27 purport. Also jiva-tatastha is the marginal living entity ‘individual influence’ in-between the superior energy (Krishna), and the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) that obviously includes all the ethereal and biological vessels the jiva-tatastha possesses when they choose to miss use their free will and enter the mahat-tattva, forgetting Krishna and their eternal nitya-siddha body that is ever present in Goloka Srila Prabhupada – “Dormant love for Krishna exists in everyone’s heart, and it simply has to be awakened by the regulative process of devotional service. One has to learn to use a typewriter by following the regulative principles of the typing book. One has to place his fingers on the keys in such a way and practice, but when one becomes adept, he can type swiftly and correctly without even looking at the keys. Similarly, one has to follow the rules and regulations of devotional service as they are set down by the spiritual master; then one can come to the point of spontaneous loving service”. Everyone has dormant krishna-bhakti — love for Krishna — and in the association of genuine devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.107): Srila Prabhupada – “”Pure love for Krishna is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens. http://caitanyacaritamrta./ com/madhya/22/… Srila Prabhupada - “Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) PRABHUPADA: Yes. Everyone thinks, “My relationship with Krishna is the best.” HANSADUTTA: So it’s not a matter of aspiring to some– PRABHUPADA: No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationships with Krishna. Yes we are dreaming our material continuation as well as our existence in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti if we dare go to that dreaming dreamless impersonal state of our own nitya-baddha consciousness. Our original position is perpetually established in Goloka (nitya-baddha) beyond the mundane time and space of the mahat-tattva (material creation) Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - “When we “return” to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here. We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position”. Ravindra Svarup dasa web site Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - “We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth” Ravindra Svarup dasa web site Srila Prabhupada - “we are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. This evolutionary process is going on”.Bombay, December 27, 1972 Srila Prabhupada - “You are right when you say our past life is a dream only. Just like at night we see so many dreams and in daytime we forget everything. Similarly we forget everything of our past life and as such so long we do not be reposed to our spiritual factual life, all these changes of lives one after another are considered to be dreams” Letter to Nandakisora, Sunday, December 24, 1967 According to Srila Jiva Goswami the living entity may be designated as jiva-maya, whereas matter is called guna-maya. The living entity places his living potency (jiva-maya) in the grip of the mundane qualitative potency (guna-maya) and falsely dreams that he is part and parcel of the material world. Such an artificial mixture is called illusion or ignorance Srila Prabhupada - “Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna” Letter to Australian devotees 1972 When we’re dreaming, we think it’s real. It seems real, no matter how mixed up the dream is. That’s life in the material world. We think it’s real, but it’s not. It’s a real dream. But still a dream. Srila Prabhupada - “when the dream is finished, we come to another dream: “Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance.” This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttime dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krsna consciousness. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he’s in the dreamland” Bombay, December 27, 1972 Also when Sri Maha-Vishnu goes into yoga-nidra, this act of sleeping His mystic slumber is real - for anything the Lord does is reality. Within this mystic dream, we the minute living entities are in fact participating in it. How we choose to misuse our God-given independence determines whether we stay or leave this realm. Is it real? If it emanates from the Lord, the answer is yes”. The concept of ‘dreaming’ in the material sense has to be correctly understood as you have clearly explained. The word ‘material dream’ simply means mistaken ‘desires’ and ‘thoughts’ that are impermanent and outside the kingdom of a perpetual reality that is imperishable and never decays. It is that ‘eternal’ place of Goloka and Vaikuntha that all the marginal living entities are perpetually founded in their eternally spiritual body or svarupa. Don’t identify the word ‘dream as explained by Prabhupada in relation to our exitence in the material creation,’ with the dreaming of the biological body, for those dreams ARE illusion. On the other hand, the dreams, thoughts and desires of the marginal living entity, or jiva-tatastha, are very real but are temporary, that’s what Prabhupada means when using the words dream or dreaming. They are simply our non-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires that are excluded from Goloka and can only find expression within the yoga-nidra dreams of Maha-Vishnu. It is there such desires, thoughts or dreams are given ethereal and biological bodies (material bodies) that are the ornaments and decorations of the mahat-tattva. These vessels not only belong to the mahat-tattva, but ARE the mahat-tattva, sometimes called mother nature, that the jiva-tatastha possess with their nitya-baddha secondary consciousness. In this way, just like darkness appears when the sun is no longer visible, the nitya-baddha consciousness appears when one miss uses their free will to choose to ignore Krishna and their nitya-siddha body they serve Krishna as, which is their (jiva-tatastha) full potential. Nitya-baddha therefore is the secondary consciousness where one can experience their self centered mistaken dreams. The reason the word ‘dream’ is used is because Prabhupada explains that Maha-Vishnu in His yoga-nidra state, is in a trance or dream, and that dream is the mahat-tattva or material universe. Yoga nidra literally means ‘sleep’ ‘This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Vishnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. He also explains that the living entities entrance in the mahat-tattva is also a dream state. “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Vishnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Srila Prabhupada SB. 4.29.2b. Look at all the paintings of Maha-Vishnu and we see He is lying down sleeping and dreaming and that dream is the mahat-tattva. Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is applicable here because just as the analogy that the sun and the sun are inseparable, the superior energy Krishna and the marginal living entity jiva-tatastha are always together. Achintya-Bheda-Abheda or inconceivable one-ness and difference, in relation to the individual marginal living entity and Krishna Achintya means ‘inconceivable’, bheda translates to ‘difference’, and abheda translates to ‘one-ness’. It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan” as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa or atma (self) vigraha (bodily form) devotional body. The living entity did notoriginate from tatastha although ones nitya-baddha consciousness may have visited there on many occassions. Srila Prabhupada can and does say that the living entity (nitya-siddha) never actually falls from the spiritual world however the forgetful consciousness of the living entity (The projected nitya-baddha consciousness) can ‘fall down’ and enter the mahat-tattva in a dream state that simultaneously leaves one authentic body back in Goloka . Paramahamsa: So we can come to the Spiritual World and return? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Fall down? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krishna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krishna consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Srila Prabhupada: - “Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krishna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, “All right, you enjoy like this.” Just like some of our students, Krishna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prison house, not that government welcomes, “Come on. We have got prison house. Come here, come here.” He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that”. Srila Prabhupada - ‘Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi–perfection of one’s constitutional position’. Introduction to the Bhagavad Gita as it is

Could the following be the answer to this entire discussion on the word tatastha - <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> By definition we are the marginal energy of the Lord and that marginal energy is represented first and for most as the nitya-siddha eternal bodily that perpetually serves Krishna Goloka or Vishnu in the Vaikuntha’s. <o:p></o:p> Marginal therefore means we are not Krishna, but are separate entities yet at the same time fully dependant on Krishna, just like the rays of the sun cannot exist without the sun (analogy only, not to be taken literally) Marginal also means we have we have free will, as simple as that. <o:p></o:p> The superior energy is Krishna and the inferior energy is the mahat-tattva. If you mean as marginal, we are neither the superior energy of the inferior energy and call that 'marginal definition' tatastha, then we have no argument. <o:p></o:p> Jiva-tatastha (borderline) in this description and version of the word can mean we are situated in-between the Superior energy, Krishna (and his unlimited Purusha expansions), and the mahat-tattva or the material creation of Maha-Vishnu, who is one of those Purusha expansions of the superior energy. <o:p></o:p> If this is the case, then maybe this entire discussion is simply a misunderstanding of words. <o:p></o:p> If you mean by tatastha the marginal living entity is in-between the superior energy and the inferior energy then yes, in this definition the marginal living entity is tatastha. <o:p></o:p> However I want to make it perfectly clear that the eternal expression of that borderline or marginal condition, the living entities were created as, which is in-between the inferior and superior energies, called the jiva-tatastha living entity, is perpetual a nitya-siddha bodily devotee of Krishna in Goloka, which is the marginal living entities perpetual Krishna Conscious expression of their 'tatastha' indiviuality. <o:p></o:p> This interpretation and understanding clearly makes it clear that tatastha is not originally an impersonal state of being, although the marginal living entity can enter and be covered by the inferior energy (mahat-tattva) in the dress of ethereal and biological containers. There are other interpretations unfortunately that translate the word tatastha as an impersonal beginning for the marginal living entity.<o:p></o:p> Question : - What is the meaning of marginal? <o:p></o:p> "The living entity is called the marginal energy of the Supreme Lord, and the material energy is called the inferior energy. Due to his material inebriety, the living entity in the marginal position becomes entangled with the inferior energy, matter. At such a time he forgets his spiritual significance, identifies himself with material energy and thereby becomes subjected to the threefold miseries. Only when he is free from such material contamination can he be situated in his proper position". Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. <o:p></o:p> "The supreme knowledge of Krishna is exhibited in three different energies--internal, marginal and external. By virtue of His internal energy, He exists in Himself with His spiritual paraphernalia; by means of His marginal energy, He exhibits Himself as the living entities, and by means of His external energy He exhibits Himself as material energy. Behind each and every energetic exhibition there is the background of eternity, pleasure, potency and full cognisance". Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. <o:p></o:p> “In the Mayavadi commentary, the spiritual, transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been denied, and the Supreme Brahman has been dragged down to the level of the individual Brahman, the living entity. Both the Supreme Brahman and the individual Brahman have been denied spiritual form and individuality, although it is clearly stated that the Supreme Lord is the one supreme living entity and the other living entities are the many subordinate living entities”. ". Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 25 Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada <o:p></o:p> Many Vaishnava’s know we already have a permanent body in Goloka and further know that our presents in the mahat-tattva or material creation are only their dream. There are those devotees who do understand the origins of the soul but know that only their personal realizations, rather than being a stereotype (parrot like), can truly explain this. <o:p></o:p> “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 <o:p></o:p> It is a fact, based on our (Srila Prabhupadas) teachings, nitya-baddha is the dreaming consciousness of the marginal living entity and our original position is eternally nitya-siddha. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada has said nitya-siddha is the full expression of all marginal living entity <o:p></o:p> From my understanding of Srila Prabhupadas teachings, the dreaming consciousness is called nitya-baddha. Some devotees don’t even like the word ‘dream’ used when describing our so called fall down to the mahat-tattva’s ethereal and biological containers and the mahat-tattva’s lifeless material surroundings <o:p></o:p> According to Srila Jiva Goswami the living entity may be designated as jiva-maya, whereas matter is called guna-maya. The living entity places his living potency (jiva-maya) in the grip of the mundane qualitative potency (guna-maya) and falsely dreams that he is part and parcel of the material world. Such an artificial mixture is called illusion <o:p></o:p> There is a paradox her however, and that is technically all the marginal living entities (100%) of all of Krishna's subsidiary potency are perpetually original represented by their fully Krishna Conscious bodily identity (nitya-siddha) in Goloka however, it is up to 25% of them who are the ones actually dreaming that they are in the material creation or mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> In other words some marginal living entities are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as their bodiless nitya-baddha conscious projection, that relies on the ethereal and biological bodies or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu, while their perpetual nitya-siddha body is in Goloka or Vaikuntha.. <o:p></o:p> “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan <o:p></o:p> "When the dream is finished, we come to another dream: "Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance." This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and night time dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krishna consciousness. If he takes to Krishna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he's in the dreamland" Bombay, December 27, 1972 <o:p></o:p> There is no beginning or end to the creation so in the face of eternity time has no meaning because no one can measure something that has no beginning. In this way all the marginal living entities are always in their full expression of nitya-siddha-svarupa and that can never change. <o:p></o:p> All of us are eternally in Goloka since our devotional svarupa body can never fall down as the Srimad Bhagavatam and Gita teaches us. We just have to wake up from this mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu’s and realize this fact <o:p></o:p> This subject is very difficult to comprehend however, Srila Prabhupada clearly states that we, the marginal living entity, is originally nitya-siddha so we cannot of originated from a 'blank sheet of paper' or borderline impersonal consciousness from some Impersonal concept of the Brahmajyoti because all marginal living entities or jivas have a perpetual bodily form that NEVER leaves Goloka or Vaikuntha. The marginal living entity, as their nitya-siddha eternal bodily identity, can therefore only ‘think’ or ‘dream’ they leave Goloka because ones perpetual 'svarupa' body can never leave an atmosphere that is imperishable. <o:p></o:p> It is therefore very clear that original and perpetually the marginal living entity is NOT from a plain borderline state of individual consciousness made up of living atoms, molecules or rays because ALL marginal living entities are perpetually established as their nitya-siddha bodily foundation in Goloka and remains that way without beginning or end. <o:p></o:p> -'All living entities [in the Vaikunthalokas] are eternally associated without any break . . . everything in the transcendental world is everlasting . . . There are no such actions and reactions of cause and effects there, so the cycle of birth, growth, existence, transformations, deterioration and annihilation. Bhag. 2.9.10, <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada rejected the idea we originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti and personally told us that we came down from Goloka some millions of years ago. This obviously means we came down not as our perpetual nitya-siddha body, but as a dreaming consciousness (nitya-baddha) that is facilitated with bodily costumes provided by Maha-Vishnu, or can eventually merge as an individual spark of consciousness within His body, which is true, but only after we have ’sub-consciously’ come down from Goloka as our secondary nitya-baddha dreaming sub-conscious thoughts. <o:p></o:p> “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course–May 13, 1973, Los Angeles) <o:p></o:p> “This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination” (Bhag.11.2.38) <o:p></o:p> Our nitya siddha body is always in Goloka as confirmed by Srila Prabhupada, even if we are off in some dream within the mahat-tattva. Srila Prabhupada confirms this <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. There is allotted (?)… When the sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different sky" Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 - <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -”As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.” (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course–May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

If someone said "I just appeared and had no mother or father" I would be offended, that’s an insult to my parents. In the same way anyone who says we do not personally come from Krishna but His impersonal feature, is an insult to Krishna's personal form. All svarupa seems to be saying is that anyone, hoodoo guru or demon, who states the living entity originates from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti are actually insulting Krishna. and I also agree it is an insult. In other words all of us come from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s personal pastime in Goloka or Vaikuntha. <FONT]<FONT size="4">Devotee –“Srila Prabhupada, What position did we occupy in the spiritual sky before we fell into the material world?’<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly... The sky is one, when it is clouded or not clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. There is allotted(?)... When the sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different sky. You are in the same sky. When the cloud is clear, you are in the same sky. But the difference of position is due to the cloud. That is called Maya. When you forget <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> that is material. And as soon as you become <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> conscious, that is spiritual. Just like here, this temple is not in <st1:city><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:city>. It is Vaikuntha. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in <st1:city><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:city>, on <st1:date month="7" day="30" year="1971">July 30, 1971</st1:date> - <o:p>Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class <st1:country-region><st1:place>Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'They are to be awakened to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciousness. It does not mean they are actually separate from <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. But they have to be awakened. They say man is not dead, he is sleeping. But he has to be awakened. As soon as he is awakened, he remembers immediately. This is called svapna-citta-nyaya. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila prabhupada - "I am sleeping, forgetting everything. I am in a different place. But as soon as I am awakened I remember, “Oh, I have to do this, I have to go there.” So this forgetfulness is a temporary illusion, that’s all. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'Actually we don’t forget. It is temporary. Ātma-mayam ṛte. It is only it is action of God’s external energy. Because I wanted to forget <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>, therefore <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> has helped me in forgetting Him by His own illusory energy. Have sankīrtana. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.9.4<o:p></o:p> by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda<o:p></o:p> Japan, <st1:date month="4" day="22" year="1972">April 22, 1972</st1:date><o:p></o:p> full lecture:http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/720422SB.TOK.htm?i=Japan <o:p></o:p> </o:p>

All of Krishna’s marginal ‘sparks’ have the same bodily features like Krishna – sat-cit-ananda-vigraha. The so called fall down of Jaya and Vijaya, as well as all marginal living entities who choose to use their free will or God given right to activate their non-Krishna Conscious nitya-baddha lower self, only manifests within the mahat-tattva creation of the dreaming Maha-Vishnu that is under the jurisdiction of past, present and future. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is however, a difference in that Jaya and Vijaya offended pure devotee's, never the less, they still had to take birth as demons in the material creation. Even though they where in demon bodies, they were still Krishna conscious, that is, they never ever stopped thinking how they hated Krishna - that is also Krishna Consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is the part or drama Jaya and Vijaya played in the Lords pastimes. On the other hand, ALL other marginal living entities can use their free will to choose to leave Goloka, not as their eternal nitya-siddha svarupa body, but as a secondary dreaming nitya-siddha consciousness that can only attain bodily form or vessels from Maha-Vishnu, this is the only way ALL MARGINAL LIVING ENTITIES can leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and enter the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and take refuge in His mahat-tattva temporary dreams (material creation)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination" (Bhag.11.2.38)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is no time in Vaikuntha or Goloka, so after playing their parts dreaming as demons in the mahat-tattva, on returning to their perpetual duty as gate keepers, it was if they NEVER left. The so called fall down of Jaya and Vijaya is just a dream, like any marginal living entity who 'falls down' from Vaikuntha, they also only dreamt they had become demons.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.” . (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake". Letter to Madhuvisa Swami 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand, understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Tokyo, Japan <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The secret of understaning this is to realize their is no time as we know it in Goloka, everything there is for ever there and has always been there, nothing comes and nothing goes because every living entity is already there in their full Krishna Conscious bodily svarupa constitutional position - this is the meaning of perpetual, never ending and forever young.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is nothing missing in Goloka because everything is already there in Goloka, Krishna, Radha, Balarama, Caitanya, the gopis, the cow herd boys, etc and ALL the marginal living entities as their nitya-siddha bodies in unlimited various transcendental forms that can only be revealed when one reestablishes their original Krishna Consciousness. To remain dreaming in the mahat-tattva denying who we really are is missing out on being our genuine perpetual bodily identity that we have always been and always will be. Try to understand that ALL marginal living entities have a nitya-siddha body that is and always has been without beginning or end in Goloka or Vaikuntha serving Krishna.

I believe this clearly answers and proves we are presently in Goloka or Vaikuntha, yet presently dreaming we are in the material creation - Jai Prabhupada. I believe this clearly answers and proves we are presently in Goloka or Vaikuntha, yet presently dreaming we are in the material creation - Jai Prabhupada.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Due to the absents of time in Vaikuntha and Goloka, the so called fall down of Jaya and Vijaya as well as all marginal living entities who use their free will to activate their non-Krishna Conscious nitya-baddha lower self, only manifests within the mahat-tattva creation of the dreaming Maha-Vishnu that is under the jurisdiction of past, present and future. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is however, a difference in that Jaya and Vijaya offended pure devotee's, never the less, they still had to take birth as demons in the material creation. Even though they where in demon bodies, they were still Krishna conscious, that is that they never ever stopped thinking how they hated Krishna. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is the part or drama Jaya and Vijaya played in the Lords pastimes. On the other hand, ALL other marginal living entities can choose to leave Goloka, not as their eternal nitya-siddha svarupa body, but as a secondary dreaming nitya-siddha consciousness thai can only attain bodily form from Maha-Vishnu, this is the only way ALL MARGINAL LIVING ENTITIES can leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and enter the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and take refuge in His mahat-tattva temporary dreams (material creation)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination" (Bhag.11.2.38)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is no time in Vaikuntha or Goloka, so after playing their parts dreaming as demons in the mahat-tattva, on returning to their perpetual duty as gate keepers, it was if they NEVER left. The so called fall down of Jaya and Vijaya is just a dream, like any marginal living entity who 'falls down' from Vaikuntha, they also only dreamt they had become demons.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.” . (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake". Letter to Madhuvisa Swami 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -"Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand, understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Tokyo, Japan <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The secret of understaning this is to realize their is no time as we know it in Goloka, everything there is for ever there and has always been there, nothing comes and nothing goes because every living entity is already there in their full Krishna Conscious bodily svarupa constitutional position - this is the meaning of perpetual, never ending and forever young.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is nothing missing in Goloka because everything is already there in Goloka, Krishna, Radha, Balarama, Caitanya, the gopis, the cow herd boys, etc and ALL the marginal living entities as their nitya-siddha bodies in unlimited various transcendental forms that can only be revealed when one reestablishes their original Krishna Consciousness. To remain dreaming in the mahat-tattva denying who we really are is missing out on being our genuine perpetual bodily identity that we have always been. Try to understand that ALL marginal living entities have a nitya-siddha body that is and always has been without beginning or end in Goloka or Vaikuntha serving Krishna.<o:p></o:p> I believe this clearly answers and proves we are presently in Goloka or Vaikuntha, yet presently dreaming we are in the material creation - Jai Prabhupada

You are already liberated; you just have to wake up from the material dream <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - ‘No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Purport to SB. 4.29.83. <o:p></o:p> The marginal living entity that manifests ‘outside Goloka as their dreaming nitya-baddha inferior consciousness’ is known as tatastha. Tatastha does not refer to the eternal bodily ‘svarupa’ constitution of the living entity because that nitya-siddha condition is eternal and can never leave Goloka, only ones secondary thoughts or dreams can leave Goloka and they are called nitya-baddha or tatastha-s’akti <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘In the present status of our life we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position’ Introduction to Bhagavad Gita as it is <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Everyone has got a particular relationship with Krishna in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si--... That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban) <o:p></o:p> Only outside the personal perpetual pastimes of Krishna, Vishnu etc in the imperishable Goloka and Vaikuntha's can the following description be correct. This is shown above as the dormant border line condition of the marginal living entities nitya-baddha consciousness that can enter a dormant state of individual consciousness in between the dark perishable cloud that is the creation of Maha-Vishnu, and the permanant devotionally active Vaikuntha's that is called tatastha – ‘The word tata means a shore or bank, like the shoreline of an ocean; and the verbal root stha means to be situated. The shore is not part of the ocean, yet it is not part of the land which borders the ocean. One situated on the shoreline is known as tatastha. He is situated neither within the ocean, nor on the land’. <o:p></o:p> There are two aspects of Krishna’s wonderful creation, one imperishable without time and decay (Goloka and Vaikuntha established perpetually in the Spiritual Sky or the Personal feature of the Brahmajyoti), while the other is perishable and temporary (the mahat-tattva and Impersonal portion of the Spiritual sky call the Impersonal Brahmajyoti). <o:p></o:p> Therefore it can be said that the marginal living also entity has two characteristics to its existence, the first and foremost is their perpetual nitya-siddha bodily identity established within eternal time in Goloka, the second is their nitya-baddha consciousness that can only exist outside Goloka. <o:p></o:p> When it is said that 'tatastha-sakti' is the marginal potency of Sri Bhagavan, this is referring to the marginal living entities as there nitya-baddha secondary consciousness because the tatastha condition of the marginal living entity can that only manifest outside the eternal abode of Goloka and Vaikuntha.. <o:p></o:p> Because the nitya-baddha consciousness is also referred to the jiva-sakti outside the realm of Goloka, this extended, separated or secondary conscious condition of the nitya-siddha devotee is included neither within the svarupa-sakti nor within maya-sakti, it is only known as tatastha-sakti, the marginal potency of the living entity in their secondary nitya baddha consciousness. It is crucial to also understand that the nitya siddha higher bodily consciousness is also the marginal potency however, that is 'internal marginal potency that is perpetually existent as a endless bodily form. In this way the full bodily identity of the living entity is forever existing in their full bodily devotional constitutions in Goloka eternally, while the nitya baddha secondary conscious condition of the marginal living entity can be activated to only exist outside Goloka as the ndreaming nitya-baddha's jiva-tatastha condition. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “You have got original relationship with Krishna. Nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti. . (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia

Guruvani you are trying to taste the honey by licking the outside part of the jar Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj used this analogy: the honey is in a bottle, the bottle is sealed, and the bee is trying to lick the honey through the glass. Foolish people may think the bee is licking the honey. Similarly, the intellect cannot approach atma, spirit. It may think that it is capable, but it is not possible. The barrier is there, like a glass. Intellectual achievement is not real achievement of higher knowledge of the higher plane. Hare Krishna

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

I am not arguing with "the interpretation you present" I am just writing that there is a deeper more personal understanding to what the acaryas are saying<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The nitya baddha dreaming consciousness that enters the material dreaming creation of Maha-Vishnu as self centred dreams that can later proceed to the tatastha impersonal condition of a dreamless dream, is certainly not a seperate place but rather a conditional state of individual consciousness manifesting in a cluster called the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti. Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.29.2b. <o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p> <o:p>Srila Prabhupada - 'Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) </o:p> Tatastha is simply a state of individual consciousness sometimes referred to as jiva tatastha or s’akti, or the impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, which is really a cluster of marginal living entities manifesting as their dreaming dreamless nitya-baddha consciousness. Every marginal living entity has both a perpetual nitya-siddha body and the propensity to manifest a nitya baddha consciousness due to free will. Without free will everything would be all one consciousness Srila Prabhupada: "He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Krishna. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies". (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course--May 13, 1973, Los Angeles) . This goes way deeper than many can presently comprehend. There is a paradox in trying to understand this. You are right if you say the nitya-baddha consciousness does not come from Goloka because only the nitya-siddhas are in Goloka. So what is nitya-baddha consciousness? If it does not came from Goloka where does it come from? This is hard to understand and explain in English.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I think the best way to understand this is lets compare the nitya-siddha body to a bright Sun and the nitya-baddha consciousness to darkness. In the presents of the sun there is no darkness, it simply does not exist, In the same way, in the presents or awareness of ones nitya-siddha body, there is no nitya-baddha consciousness, it simply does not exist. Also when there is darkness (nitya-baddha) it's not that there is no sun (nitya-siddha), it simply means we cannot see it. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada -'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. The darkness or the nitya-baddha consciousness is compared also to the tatastha condition of consciousness that is a characteristic born of darkness, such consciousness is tatastha s’akti of the jiva. In fact within that darkness also exists the mahat-tattva dreams of Maha-Vishnu. Now this place is a real manifestation in the spiritual Sky that takes up 25%, so it is not an illusion it is simply a temporary phenomenon <o:p>Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, </o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way the jiva as there nitya-baddha secondary self originates from the darkness, from tatastha however, the full potential of the marginal living entity is always in Goloka or Vaikuntha as their perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body serving <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is no contradiction with previous acaryas<o:p></o:p>

Many cannot accept your interpretation of shastra No jiva originates from tatastha When we hear that we live in this material world because we are “fallen souls,” it’s natural for us to ask, “Where have we fallen from?” Did we fall from Goloka or did we emerge from tatastha? When it is rightfully said there are two types of jiva souls, what does that really mean? Are there two characteristics of each jiva soul? The answer is yes This clearly means EVERY jiva soul or marginal living entity has both a perpetual Svarupa nitya-siddha body fastened perpetually in the eternal pastimes of Krishna beyond mundane time and space, and a nitya baddha consciousness that enters the material creation of Maha-Vishnu as self centred dreams that can later proceed to the tatastha impersonal condition of a dreamless dream. Srila Prabhupada says that as living souls we are all originally Krishna conscious. But what does that mean? Were we all originally with Krishna in the spiritual world? The answer again is yes Srila Prabhupada – “...We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?...” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, Srila Prabhupada – ‘So the nitya-siddha maha-bhagavata, they come from the spiritual world on the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and they, by example, they preach Krishna Consciousness. This is maha-bhagavata. By suffering, by example, everything, they look like ordinary men, but maha-bhagavata. How it is tested? Never forgets Krishna. This is maha-bhagavata nitya-siddha. And sadhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of maha-bhagavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become maha-bhagavata or nitya-siddha, because originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krishna-bhakti ‘sadhya' kabhu naya zravanadi-zuddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, So although you have fallen in this material world, and suffering the pangs of material existence, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [bg. 13.9], on account of accepting this material body, still, Krishna personally comes, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [bg. 4.7]. This is glanih, discrepancies. We are living this material existence, this is not real life. Real life is to become maha-bhagavata". Srila Prabhupada: "Each and every living entity is originally attached to a particular type of transcendental service, because he is eternally the servitor of the Lord". - Srimad Bhagavatam 3.9.11, purport This clearly means our true genuine identity did not originate from tatastha Some have tried to work around this problem by suggesting a different idea: We fell not from Krishna’s personal abode but from the brahmajyoti or tatastha, the effulgent light that surrounds it. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, yogis who seek the impersonal aspect of the Supreme may merge into that effulgent ligh, only to fall back later to the material world. Perhaps, then, we originally fell from the brahmajyoti. Srila Prabhupada rejected this idea. Those in the brahmajyoti or tatastha, he wrote, are not Krishna conscious, so they too are fallen. “So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.” Srila Prabhupada -'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. Srila Prabhupada - 'You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya. Srila Prabhupada - 'Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada - "It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter, having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment. But when again the soul . . . gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God . . . he begins to get back his pure essential nature . Sri Caitanya's Teachings, p. 323. The only way to 'fall down' into the dreams of Maha-Vishnu and enter that dark cloud in the Spiritual Sky, which is one of the petals of the lotus flower in the Spiritual Sky, is by choosing to use ones free will to no longer be Krishna's servant. However, because ones perpetual svarupa body in Goloka is eternally there in Goloka, one only falls down in a sub conscious dreaming state (nitya-baddha) to the mahat-tattva, similar to how one dreams at night while sleeping in their present biological body. Such 'dreams' are then provided ethereal and biological form, vessels or bodies by Maha-Vishnu so they can enter His dreams that are all perishable. What remains 'imperishable' beyond mundane material time and impermanence is ones perpetual Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa bodily identity and active service that every marginal living entity has had eternally without origin. One just has to wake up from their material dreams within Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva and realize this fact by again becoming Krishna Conscious.

A good question for the times we are in, The understanding of history is rarely understood in its own time and many would rather not even deal with that issue, especially now when human society and ISKCON are trying to understand how to deal with it, that’s why society has previously called such acts as ‘unspeakable,’ ‘don’t want to know about it,’ out of sight out of mind’ From a devotees prospective how are such ‘unspeakable’ acts and those fallen persons who have performed them dealt with? Can they be saved? And how are the children they abused helped and compensated, not only materially but spiritually (who they really are) so they stay with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> It is obvious that the offender must fall genuinely at the feet of those he or she has offended and beg for forgiveness, and if rejected still pray for forgiveness until forgiveness comes for being responsible for possibly sending that child on a hellish path, which may mean going to hell to save those they have offended. The offended must be helped first while the offender must beg for forgiveness without imitation and that could take a life time, especially in today’s untrustworthy climate. . The point is EVERYONE can be saved by Lord Caitanya’s Movement – eventually, it all depends on commitment and honesty. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada once said if you love (perform devotional service) me then I can love you however, what is one loving (serving)? It is not the senses of the biological body or the whims of the mind of that body, it is the supersoul (krishna) within. In other words what is a devotee embracing when a fallen soul comes back to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>? Is it the material body of a child molester or the soul trapped in that body? <o:p></o:p> If you see a disgusting child molester, his biological body and not who is trapped in that body then you won’t want to know about him or her. Such mercy of the devotees is a two way street. In other words the fallen child molester, murder, rapist etc has to surrender to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and no longer be the slave to their biological ‘prison or body.' As Srila Prabhupada said, love is a two way street. If one is still performing sinful activity abusing children then he or she is not qualified to receive the mercy of the devotees and can never be qualified until one surrenders selflessly to Krishna.. <o:p></o:p> There has to be spiritual advancement on both sides, especially the side of the child molester, he or she must beg for Krishna's mercy to understand that their material biological body or costume is not who they really are.. It’s a ‘dirty’ subject to write about and I can understand why people in the past never wanted to deal with it. Also devotees are dealing with these problems, for instance the prisons program is going on very auspiciously. Eventually some of them, of which includes child molesters, even fallen devotees, will become purified and will be embraced by the merciful devotees, don’t you think that is so? Devotees are not seeing their sinful body, they are seeing the soul within. <o:p></o:p> Also we have all possibly been trapped in this mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu since time immemorial, so who knows what bodies we have all had in the past? <o:p></o:p> The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]. <o:p></o:p> PURPORT <o:p></o:p> A Krsna conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The brahmana and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, a cow, or an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramatma, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge. As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramatma regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramatma is present both in the outcaste and in the brahmana, although the body of a brahmana and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body whereas the Paramatma is present in each and every body. A Krsna conscious person has full knowledge of this, and therefore he is truly learned and has equal vision. The similar characteristics of the soul and Supersoul are that they are both conscious, eternal and blissful. But the difference is that the individual soul is conscious within the limited jurisdiction of the body, whereas the Supersoul is conscious of all bodies. The Supersoul is present in all bodies without distinction.

Srila Prabhupada and the 10,000-Year Prophecy of ISKCON The Golden Age within Kali-yuga The prophecies regarding the Hare Krishna movement are quite compelling evidence of the bona fides of Srila Prabhupäda and ISKCON. They follow the scriptures and the previous acaryas with an accuracy that is quite remarkable. In the course of another conversation, Srila Prabhupäda is reported to have said that his books would be the law books for those 10,000 years. Ramesvara - "Srila Prabhupada, when I first came to this, to your movement, the first thing I was told is that Lord Caitanya’s movement in this age will, like a moon, rise for ten thousand years. I was told that number, ten thousand years. Is that true?" Srila Prabhupada - Hm. Ramesvara: "And then after that, they will..." Srila Prabhupada - "This movement will go for ten thousand years without any impediment". —From a Morning Walk conversation on June 5, 1976.

Sri Nandanandana dasa - "Since the Brahman effulgence is considered to be but one of the opulences of the Supreme, it should be understood that whenever the Vedic texts speak of Brahman, they are indicating the Supreme Personality of God. In fact, it is stated that in the Vedic literature the word Brahman means, "in whom all the attributes reach to the infinity." In this way, it is clear that Brahman primarily means the Supreme Person, of whom the Vedic literature is full of descriptions of various aspects of His infinite qualities and characteristics. The Caitanya-caritamrita clearly states: "The word 'Brahman' indicates the complete Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is Sri Krishna. That is the verdict of all Vedic literature." (Cc.Madhya-lila, 6.147) The Caitanya-caritamrita (Adi.7.112) also explains that, "Everything about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is spiritual, including His body, opulence and paraphernalia. Mayavadi philosophy, however, covering His spiritual opulence, advocates the theory of impersonalism." One can be liberated from material existence by merging into the Brahman or the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, where there is eternity and knowledge. However, there is no real ananda or bliss there. The only pleasure in the brahmajyoti is the freedom from all material suffering. Some yogis think such pleasure, which may be felt on elementary levels of meditation, is a sign of reaching the final goal. But real ananda is found only in spiritual engagement. Without understanding this, one's spiritual knowledge is incomplete. Sarva-gattah - "The goal of the impersonalists is to merge into the Brahman effulgence or Impersonal Brahmajyoti, where they lose all of their individual characteristics that is simply another form of dreaming. If the nitya-baddha consciousness succeeds to enter a dormant dreamless state, they remain there as an inactive spiritual spark, (nitya-baddha consciousness) floating in the rays of the brahmajyoti. They do not realize that they have a nitya-siddha body in Goloka or Vaikuntha that again gives them the opportunity to engage in various spiritual personal activities because they do not know about their full bodily identity in Goloka. The whole creation including the maha-tattva exist within the Brahman effulgence. Therefore there are three aspects to the Brahmajyoti effulgence, the original source is perpetually Personal and active in bodily form, while the Impersonal is inactive, bodyless and devoid of devotional service. The third is the mahat-tattva or material creation. So, if the nitya-baddha consciousness in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti again has any yearning for engaging in activities, they cannot go back to the spiritual planets because they are not qualified to do so, so they are forced to seek shelter in the mahat-tattva or material world where they start over again confoned to ethereal and biological bodily vessels. Sri Nandanandana dasa -'The idea of achieving spiritual liberation by merging into the Brahman effulgence is considered the process of a cheating religion. Why it is considered this is that it destroys the opportunity for people to re-establish their loving relationship with the Supreme'. This is confirmed in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Adi.1.92): "The foremost process of cheating is to desire to achieve liberation by merging in the Supreme, for this causes the permanent disappearance of loving service to Krishna." Therefore, those who have reached mature spiritual realization look upon merging into the Brahman effulgence as a great mistake. Sarva-gattah - 'From this verse it is clear that without going beyond the Brahman effulgence (Impersonal Brahmajyoti), one cannot see the real perpetual bodily form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or their own perpetual ‘svarupa’ active bodily identity. If one reaches the stage of realizing the Brahman (IMPERSONAL BRAHMAJYOTI) and becomes convinced that he has attained the ultimate, then he does not have complete understanding or full realization of his full constitutional bodily origins and potential. He still must go further until he has reached the source of the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, which, according to the Isa Upanishad, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead where one is eternal actively serving Krishna as an eternal bodily form without end or beginning. This is the real position of all marginal living entities

Srila Prabhupada in his lectures always says that originally we were all Krishna-conscious living entities and on the Hare Krishna album He addresses a large audience with the words: “We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . .” If one is in an imperishable atmosphere then the very meaning of ‘imperishable’ is no one ever leaves as that constitution or foundational Krishna Conscious body they eternally are in Goloka or Vaikuntha. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> One can leave if they choose to reject Krishna however, they can only leave Goloka ’sub-consciously’ like one leaves their present body while dreaming. <o:p></o:p> The imperishable aspect of the jiva is ones eternal svarupa Krishna Conscious body, which is ones perpetual nitya-siddha constitutional position. Therefore the ‘perishable’ nitya-baddha secondary conscious state is nothing other than a dreaming phenomenon emanating from ones ‘imperishable’ marginal identity while unconscious to their full constitutional nitya-siddha personality. The full expression of the marginal living entity (nitya-siddha) is perpetually beyond the mundane decaying effect that deludes the lowly nitya-baddha consciousness which is trapped in forgetfulness within ethereal and biological bodies within the time and space of the material creation or mahat-tattva.. <o:p></o:p> The Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahma-sayujya is only attained after one (nitya-baddha consciousness) first enters the mahat-tattva in a dreaming state projected from the sub-consciousness of their perpetual original and nitya-siddha authentic body in the Vaikuntha’s. Impersonal liberation is only attained when one abandons their original perpetual Krishna Conscious body in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha and further abandons the ethereal and biological vessels one has ‘consciously’ transferred to within the mahat-tattva. It is only after spending billions of life times trapped in the maha-tattva’s ornaments (ethereal and biological vessels) can one enter the impersonal characteristic of the Brahmajyoti. Such. This is what His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada means when he says: <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is an important revelation at a time (the beginning of the 21st century) when some Vaishnava traditions foolishly mislead others to believe their origins are from the Brahma-sayujya, Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti or Tatasta. All these states of impersonal consciousness are only attained after ones nitya-baddha consciousness first passing through the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence, but his relationship with krsna is never lost, simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the lord which is his original or constitutional position. the relationship of the living entity with krsna is eternal as both krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new. 70-04-25. Letter: Jagadisa<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. but those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down. 67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘In the present status of our life we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position’ Introduction to Bhagavad Gita as it is<o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada in his lectures always says that originally we were all Krishna-conscious living entities and on the Hare Krishna album He addresses a large audience with the words: “We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . .” <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence, but his relationship with krsna is never lost, simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the holy name of krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the lord which is his original or constitutional position. the relationship of the living entity with krsna is eternal as both krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new. 70-04-25. Letter: Jagadisa<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. but those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down. 67-08-27. Letter: Jananivasa<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘In the present status of our life we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position’ Introduction to Bhagavad Gita as it is<o:p></o:p>

No, you do not understand the teachings of Srila Prabhupada! Srila Prabhupada: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. (Lecture, Atlanta, March 2, 1975) So many misunderstand our eternal constitution or eternal devotional ’svarupa’ foundations. Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Fall down? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?’ Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 Los Angeles

Srila Prabhupada - 'There is possibility, if you do not stick to the spiritual principle, even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no contaminated soul can stay there. He will fall down'. Bhag.-gita class, Honolulu: July 4, 1974)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada clearly explains here how the non-Krishna conscious dreams (nitya-baddha consciousness) that are sub-consciously separate from ones marginal nitya-siddha-svarupa rasa body, are then transferred to the ‘creation for the dreaming’ known as the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu. This seconday (conditioned) extension of the nitya-siddha devotee is known as the nitya-baddha condition of restricted awareness manifesting in a dreaming condition of non-Krishna conscious thoughts and desires that is called the jiva-s’akti, jiva-tattva, jiva-bhutah and about 170 other jiva definitions depending on ones secondary conscious dreaming condition.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “We wanted to give up Krishna.” <o:p></o:p> There is no mention of originally being in or coming from the Brahmajyoti, tatastha, Brahma-sayujya or the Viraja River. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada therefore clearly tells us that we have never been always conditioned because we first originated from Vaikuntha and not tatastha, although as complicated as it may be to understand, our nitya-baddha conscious condition does originate from tatastha. This is because it is activated by our non-Krishna conscious desires. Both those desires and the nitya-baddha feature of ones marginal identity can never exist in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada tells us that our original position is nothing less than being a fully developed perpetually vigraha devotee eternally serving Krishna as our eternal self (nitya-siddha) in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, even if we presently are unaware of this fact due to our secondary nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness that is restricted by the ‘eternal present’ (only existing in Goloka and Vaikuntha) being divided into past, present and future within the mahat-tattva cloud in the far corner of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti.<o:p></o:p>

In this way the secondary nitya-baddha consciousness creates its own counterfeit bodily forms or vessels of ethereal and biological structure facilitated and provided by the creator of the material creation or mahat-tattva Maha-Vishnu. Only through His provisions, can the nitya-baddha bodiless conscious projection of the marginal living entity, live out their non-Krishna conscious dreams ‘embodied’ within the mahat-tattva. The marginal living entity in their secondary lower nitya-baddha consciousness chases their dreams of self-importance throughout the three worlds of the unlimited universes within the maha-tattva.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Maha-Vishnu, an expansion of the Supreme Lord, gives facility to those who choose to forget Krishna. Such forgetfulness can almost seem an eternity but when they revive their original nitya-siddha identity, the nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness will be as if it never happened and simply fades away like all dreams do!!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this way it is important to understand that all marginal living entities are created as persons first, as a perpetual nitya-siddha Krishna conscious devotee with an eternal ‘svarupa’ body that always serves Krishna even if we cannot remember that vigraha (bodily form) or personal bodily relationship (rasa) with Krishna. Forgetting ones Krishna Conscious bodily origin is due to the free will and choice to be absorbed in our non-Krishna conscious nitya-baddha conscious protrusion that is compared to one who chooses darkness rather than light. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Srimad Bhagavatam class Japan <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means our nitya-siddha body can never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'There are instances where marginal energy jiva souls have fallen from the spiritual world, so the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there. (68-12-02)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - 'After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world. (68-12-02)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This clearly means they fall down as their nitya-baddha secondary dreaming consciousness and not as their perpetual ‘svarupa’ body<o:p></o:p>

WE ARE NOT THESE MATERIAL (ETHEREAL AND BIOLOGICAL) BODIES!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> As long as we think we are the gross disgusting biological human body and mind, then how can we ever understand the deep secrets of Spiritual life? Being marginal, which ALL of us eternal are, means we can use our free will to choose to remain as who we really are eternally in Goloka AS our fully Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, or we can ‘sub-consciously’ drift off into a ‘dream’ that is out of synch (eternal time in Goloka) from that perpetual body serving Krishna in Goloka and enter the perishable material creation, NOT as our eternal devotional Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha body, but as a bodiless non-Krishna conscious DREAMING projection known as the nitya-baddha consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.<o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes: Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga <o:p></o:p> Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah <o:p></o:p> 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83. <o:p></o:p> This extended conscious projection, known as the nitya-baddha consciousness, is then provided ethereal and biological vessels by Maha-Vishnu. This enables the inferior non-Krishna conscious nitya-baddha feature of ones marginal identity to enter His dreaming mahat-tattva creation and seek out their mistaken desires of grandeur.<o:p></o:p>

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu – “When we "return" to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here. We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position. We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth” Ravindra Svarup dasa web site Dhirasanta: Srila Prabhupada was walking in St. James’s Park, tapping his cane on the ice that had formed overnight. At one point he asked, “What does this mean?” We looked at each other and wondered what we should say. Prabhupada asked again, “What does this mean?” We couldn’t fathom what Prabhupada meant. Suddenly he said, “Ice is maya. The original constitution of water is liquid, but when it comes in contact with freezing weather it becomes hard ice. And when there is ice, there is the possibility that you may slip.” Prabhupada may have been breaking the ice because he didn’t want anyone to slip. He continued the analogy, explaining that the heart becomes hard, but just as the sun rises and melts the ice, in the same way the continued chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra softens the heart and reinstates the individual in his natural constitutional position. “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4.29.2b. The eternal 'reality of sevice to Radha and Krishna' is shown below within the lotus flower abode of Lord Krishna and Lord Chaitanya. The surronding Vaikuntha planets are also within the realms of 'eternal' reality of servitude to Lord Vishnu.. It is only within a dark petal of that lotus flower as shown below, that the 'perpetual reality' of the Spiritual Sky is divided into past, present and future and under the control of Maha-Vishnu who is actually dreaming all the activities within that petal or dark cloud within the Spiritual Sky. The side effect of this phenomenon is everything is impermanent within the mahat-tattva (material creation) dreams of Maha-Vishnu. The material world is like a day <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga<o:p></o:p> Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu’ Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka <o:p></o:p> We all can enter Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva creation, however no one originates from Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming mahat-tattva creation. We can only enter His dark cloud as our dreaming nitya-baddha lower self that is then given vessels by Maha-Vishnu to act out our mistaken desires within His mahat-tattva (material creation)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977<o:p></o:p> It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa (bodily form) devotional body eternally.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma Samhita describes:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yah karanarnava – jale bhajati sma yaga<o:p></o:p> Nidram ananta – jagad- anda- saroma- kupah<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 'This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation.” Purport to SB. 4.29.83.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature.” SB. 4.29.2b.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu’ Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka <o:p></o:p> We all can enter Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva creation, however no one originates from Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming mahat-tattva creation. We can only enter His dark cloud as our dreaming nitya-baddha lower self that is then given vessels by Maha-Vishnu to act out our mistaken desires within His mahat-tattva (material creation)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977<o:p></o:p> It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa (bodily form) devotional body eternally.

(marginal) we are". Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 -- San Francisco, March 28, 1968 </p> <font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> Srila Prabhupada: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the propensity of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. <b><i>(Lectur

Caitanya Caritamrita. Madhya 22.107. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> nitya-siddha krsna-prema ‘sädhya’ kabhu naya<o:p></o:p> çravaëädi-çuddha-citte karaye udaya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens."<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “We are also expansions of Krishna’s form. These jivas, the living entities... Krishna is expanding in two ways, svamsa and vibhinnamsa. Svamsa means Vishnu. One extension, expansion, is just directly He Himself. And another expansion is separated from Him. That separated from Him (marginal) we are”. Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture 1.3.1-3 -- San Francisco, March 28, 1968<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – ‘Originally everyone (all marginal living entities) is nitya-siddha’.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So it is due to the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious desires that ones secondary dreaming conscious aspect of their marginal identity (nitya-baddha) enters the dark mahat-tattva cloud in the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti. This is made possible by to the marginal living entities choice or free will not to be serving Krishna as their original 'svarupa' bodily rasa relationship which only leaves one to dream on as their inferior nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The nitya-siddha-svarupa body (eternally in the imperishable present atmosphere of Goloka devoid of past and future) and the nitya-baddha (eternally conditioned in a temporary perishable atmosphere divided into past, present and future) sub-conscious bodiless state are the two characteristics of every marginal living entity.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is important to understand that the nitya-siddha-svarupa transcendental Krishna Conscious body is perpetually the ‘original’ (technically without beginning or end) bodily form of the marginal living entity, where as the nitya-baddha consciousness has no bodily form until it is provided one by Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Srila Prabhupada - "As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere." (Original Hare Krsna album 1966) In this way we have entered within the darker cloud of maha-Vishnu's creation as shown below, in a secondary dreaming consciousness even while our 'svarupa' body is perpetually situated in Goloka. Srila Prabhupada - "Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being. . . has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi—perfection of one’s constitutional position . . . We have an intimate relationship with the Lord, and because we are all qualitatively one . . . the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to revive our sanatana occupation, or sanatana dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity . . . The Lord descends to reclaim all of these fallen, conditioned souls to call them back to the sanatana eternal sky so that the sanatana living entities may regain their eternal sanatana positions of eternal association with the Lord.” Introduction to Bhagavad-gita asa it is,