Vigraha

Gopal Krsna Goswami Maharaja has greatly inspired the preaching in Delhi over the years and has encouraged the preaching in Russia - as we all get older we should honour prasadam in moderation. Following this helps stop heart disease

This great soul has the best arguments that has already proved the existence of God. How deep does our convictions really go into our hearts beyond philosophy and memorizing slokas and books. Personal realizations and acting on those 'realization' are the real Knowledge of personalism. <TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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How Vaishnavas should appear all over the world

All Vaishava's internal and external appearances represent the Supreme Lord and his dear pure devotees

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only Krishna's love can do that.The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Narottama dasa Thakura prays to Lord Caitanya Narottama dasa Thakura prays to Lord Caitanya, "My dear Lord, please be merciful to me, because who can be more merciful than Your Lordship within these three worlds?" Actually, this is a fact. Not only Narottama dasa Thakura, but Rupa Gosvami also prayed to Lord Caitanya in this way. At the time of the first meeting of Lord Caitanya and Rupa Gosvami at Prayaga (Allahabad), Srila Rupa Gosvami said, "My dear Lord, You are the most munificent of all incarnations, because You are distributing love of Krsna, Krsna consciousness." When Krsna was personally present He simply asked us to surrender, but He did not distribute Himself so easily. He made conditions -- "First of all you surrender." But this incarnation, Lord Caitanya, although Krsna Himself, makes no such condition. He simply distributes: "Take love of Krsna." Therefore Lord Caitanya is approved as the most munificent incarnation. Narottama dasa Thakura says, "Please be merciful to me. You are so magnanimous, because You have seen the fallen souls of this age, and You are very much compassionate to them, but You should know also that I am the most fallen. No one is more greatly fallen than me." Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara: "Your incarnation is just to reclaim the conditioned, fallen souls, but I assure You that You will not find a greater fallen soul than me. Therefore, my claim is first." By His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only Krishna's love can do that.The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love. There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies. Narottama dasa Thakura prays to Lord Caitanya Narottama dasa Thakura prays to Lord Caitanya, "My dear Lord, please be merciful to me, because who can be more merciful than Your Lordship within these three worlds?" Actually, this is a fact. Not only Narottama dasa Thakura, but Rupa Gosvami also prayed to Lord Caitanya in this way. At the time of the first meeting of Lord Caitanya and Rupa Gosvami at Prayaga (Allahabad), Srila Rupa Gosvami said, "My dear Lord, You are the most munificent of all incarnations, because You are distributing love of Krsna, Krsna consciousness." When Krsna was personally present He simply asked us to surrender, but He did not distribute Himself so easily. He made conditions -- "First of all you surrender." But this incarnation, Lord Caitanya, although Krsna Himself, makes no such condition. He simply distributes: "Take love of Krsna." Therefore Lord Caitanya is approved as the most munificent incarnation. Narottama dasa Thakura says, "Please be merciful to me. You are so magnanimous, because You have seen the fallen souls of this age, and You are very much compassionate to them, but You should know also that I am the most fallen. No one is more greatly fallen than me." Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara: "Your incarnation is just to reclaim the conditioned, fallen souls, but I assure You that You will not find a greater fallen soul than me. Therefore, my claim is first." By His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

How fallen is too fallen? <o:p> </o:p> (1) sri-krsna-caitanya prabhu doya koro more toma bina ke doyalu jagat-samsare (2) patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara mo sama patita prabhu na paibe are (3) ha ha prabhu nityananda, premananda sukhi krpabalokana koro, ami baro duhkhi (4) doya koro sita-pati adwaita gosai tava krpa-bale pai caitanya-nitai (5) ha ha swarup, sanatana, rupa, raghunatha bhatta-jugau, sri jiva ha prabhu lokanatha (6) doya koro sri acarya prabhu srinivasa ramacandra-sanga mage narottama-dasa This is a song composed by Narottama dasa Thakura. He prays to Lord Caitanya, "My dear Lord, please be merciful to me, because who can be more merciful than Your Lordship within these three worlds?" Actually, this is a fact. Not only Narottama dasa Thakura, but Rupa Gosvami also prayed to Lord Caitanya in this way. At the time of the first meeting of Lord Caitanya and Rupa Gosvami at Prayaga (Allahabad), Srila Rupa Gosvami said, "My dear Lord, You are the most munificent of all incarnations, because You are distributing love of Krsna, Krsna consciousness." When Krsna was personally present He simply asked us to surrender, but He did not distribute Himself so easily. He made conditions -- "First of all you surrender." But this incarnation, Lord Caitanya, although Krsna Himself, makes no such condition. He simply distributes: "Take love of Krsna." Therefore Lord Caitanya is approved as the most munificent incarnation. Narottama dasa Thakura says, "Please be merciful to me. You are so magnanimous, because You have seen the fallen souls of this age, and You are very much compassionate to them, but You should know also that I am the most fallen. No one is more greatly fallen than me." Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara: "Your incarnation is just to reclaim the conditioned, fallen souls, but I assure You that You will not find a greater fallen soul than me. Therefore, my claim is first." Then he prays to Lord Nityananda. He says, ha ha prabhu Nityananda premananda-sukhi: "My dear Lord Nityananda, You are always joyful in spiritual bliss. Since You always appear very happy, I have come to You because I am most unhappy. If You kindly put Your glance over me, I may also become happy." Then he prays to Advaita Prabhu. Doya koro sita-pati adwaita gosai, Advaita Prabhu's wife's name was Sita. Therefore He is sometimes addressed as sita-pati. Thus Narottama dasa Thakura prays, "My dear Advaita Prabhu, husband of Sita, You are so kind. Please be kind to me. If You are kind to me, naturally Lord Caitanya and Nityananda will also be kind to me." Actually, Advaita Prabhu invited Lord Caitanya to come down. When Advaita Prabhu saw that the fallen souls were all engaged simply in sense gratificatory processes, not understanding Krsna consciousness, He felt very much compassionate toward the fallen souls, and He also felt Himself incapable of claiming them all. He therefore prayed to Lord Krsna, "Please come Yourself. Without Your personal presence it is not possible to deliver these fallen souls." Thus by His invitation Lord Caitanya appeared. Naturally, Narottama dasa Thakura prays to Advaita Prabhu, "If You will be kind to me, naturally Lord Caitanya and Nityananda also will be kind to me." Then he prays to the Gosvamis. Ha ha swarup, sanatana, rupa, raghunatha. Swarup refers to Svarupa Damodara, the personal secretary of Lord Caitanya. He was always with Caitanya Mahaprabhu and immediately arranged for whatever Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted. Two personal attendants, Svarupa Damodara and Govinda, were always constantly with Lord Caitanya. Therefore, Narottama dasa Thakura also prays to Svarupa Damodara and then to the six Gosvamis, the next disciples of Lord Caitanya -- Sri Rupa Gosvami, Sri Sanatana Gosvami, Sri Bhatta Raghunatha Gosvami, Sri Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, Sri Jiva Gosvami, and Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. These six Gosvamis were directly instructed by Lord Caitanya to spread this movement of Krsna consciousness. Narottama dasa Thakura also prays for their mercy. After the six Gosvamis, the next acarya was Srinivasa Acarya. Actually, Narottama dasa Thakura was in the disciplic succession after Srinivasa Acarya and was almost his contemporary, and Narottama dasa's personal friend was Ramacandra Cakravarti. Therefore he prays, "I always desire the company of Ramacandra." He desires a devotee's company. The whole process is that we should always pray for the mercy of the superior acaryas and keep company with pure devotees. Then it will be easier for us to advance in Krsna consciousness and receive the mercy of Lord Caitanya and Lord Krsna. This is the sum and substance of this song sung by Narottama dasa Thakura. By His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Pray to Srila Prabhupada and understand the vessel you are in belongs to the dreams of MAHA-VISHNU and His mahat-tattva creation, you are not that biological body, many before you have passed through . . ., chant HARE KRISHNA and you will be amazed at what is really going on.

Srila Prabhupada – “In the material condition of all living entities, there are three stages of dreaming. When the material world is awake and put in working order, this is a kind of dream, a waking dream. When the living entities go to sleep, they dream again. And when unconscious at the time of annihilation, when this material world is unmanifested, they enter another stage of dreaming. At any stage in the material world, therefore, they are all dreaming. In the spiritual world, however, everything is awake”. Srimad Bhagavatam canto 8 chapter 1 text 9 purport.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> So how can we be in the material and spiritual world simultaneously? The answer is the time factor and not the division of the self. The nitya-siddha is referred to as the eternal form or higher self of ones marginal identity while the nitya-baddha consciousness is devoid of form and is referred to as the secondary inferior conscious projection or lower self that is activated by ones non-Krishna conscious desires, dreams and thoughts. It only appears that way due to eternal time in relation to divided time. These realizations cannot be learnt on an academic level, they must come from the amazing and causeless mercy of the Srila Prabhupada. Acintyah means inconceivable though the way to understand the apparent existence and paradox of both the nitya-siddha body and the nitya-baddha consciousness existing at the same time is that the nitya-siddha bodily self is eternally liberated in Goloka, existing in the endless presents and pastimes of Krishna, while the nitya-baddha bodiless dreaming consciousness is eternally conditioned outside the Vaikuntha realm in either a conscious Impersonal inactive dormant condition, where one is not aware of past, present and future or within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu, where the nitya-baddha consciousness is confined to ethereal and biological bodily vessels that He provides so one can actively act out their dreams within His mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> As already explained, the mahat-tattva is governed by past, present and future that has the by-product of impermanence and decay, both are temporary conditions because the nitya-baddha consciousness is not who one really is perpetually. The marginal living entity does not go from nitya siddha to nitya badda as one moderator misunderstood, THATS NOT POSSIBLE because eveyone is always nitya-siddha and only DREAM they are nitya-baddha. The nitya-siddha svarupa identity is eternally ones genuin identity perpetually, YOU AND YOUR GOOD MATES JUST HAVE TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE IT GURVANI. The dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness on the other hand enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.and is given ethereal and biological bodily facilities or vessels that make such dreams real but subject to decay or real but temporary. At the same 'time' that one chooses to be absorbed in their non-Krishna nitya-baddha dreams, ones 'svarupa' body is perpetually in Goloka in the eternal 'present'.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Unfortunately even many ISKCON devotees cannot understand this and choose to not get involved. At times Srila Prabhupada said it was a waste of time to understand and at other times he said it was important to understand. We must remember that ISKCON is only in the very early pioneering stages and many great souls are waiting for the right time to take birth when they feel their Spiritual development is protected and nurtured with eyes open with knowledge and devotion and not imitation. .The ISKCON movement will attract great souls as devotees become genuinely pure, humble and strong without imitation. There is a great Spiritual change coming! Ones awareness of reality is simply based on the concept of time governed by whether one chooses to serve LORD KRISHNA OR REJECT KRISHNA, that choice is eternally there even in GOLOKA. The nitya-siddha devotee’s are fully aware of the dark cloud in Spiritual Sky called the mahat-tattva that is real, but only a temporary manifestation and place where the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious dreams (nitya-baddha consciousness) go to be embodied and pursued. The paradox here is such dreams have no effect in perpetual time in Goloka-Vrndavana and on return to their genuine bodily svarupa self; it will be as if they never left. Srila Prabhupada explains ones so called fall down like this and then says that technically one never falls down, they only 'think' they have left Goloka. Srila Prabhupada also explains that the tendency or possibility is always there with all marginal devotees to forget <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<font size=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> and their eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa body they serve <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> as because of being marginal energy of the Lord. One can either choose to stay with <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> or reject him due to their independent marginal status. Such wishes are the choice all marginal living entities have – that is why they are called marginal. <FONT color=black> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=4>Srila Prabhupada clearly tells us that actually no-one falls down because their svarupa body never leaves Goloka-Vrndavana and that one only ‘thinks’ they are fallen or ‘dreams’ they are fallen, but in the perpetual reality of the eternal 'presents' of Goloka -Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, no one never falls down. This is my last post on this thread FOR FURTHER INFORMATION <FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=5><FONT face="Times New Roman">Guruvani <FONT face="Times New Roman">GO TO<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=5><FONT color=blue><FONT color=blue>http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/hare-krishna-discussions/443597-secret-book-origins-finally-revealed-those-ready-understand-2.html <o:p><FONT color=black size=4>HARE KRISHNA</o:p>

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95LFNe3Uw-w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5GTvIUWMr4 <TABLE width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="50%"> Govinda.mp3 </TD><TD width="50%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%"> Sri Gurvastakam.mp3 </TD><TD width="50%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%"> Bhaja Bhakata.mp3 </TD><TD width="50%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%"> Hare Krsna Mantra.mp3 </TD><TD width="50%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%"> Sri Isopanisad.mp3 </TD><TD width="50%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%"> Bhajahu Re Mana.mp3 </TD><TD width="50%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD width="50%"> Govinda Jaya Jaya.mp3 </TD><TD width="50%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGe4HWUxQVE

Srila Prabhupada – “In the material condition of all living entities, there are three stages of dreaming. When the material world is awake and put in working order, this is a kind of dream, a waking dream. When the living entities go to sleep, they dream again. And when unconscious at the time of annihilation, when this material world is unmanifested, they enter another stage of dreaming. At any stage in the material world, therefore, they are all dreaming. In the spiritual world, however, everything is awake”. Srimad Bhagavatam canto 8 chapter 1 text 9 purport.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada - “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” we were originally with Krsna and are now in a situation where “we think we have fallen’.April 20, 1972, in Tokyo, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:City w:st=" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">Japan</st1:country-region> Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”. April 20, 1972, in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Tokyo</st1:City>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">Japan</st1:country-region></st1:place> - Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there”.April 20, 1972, in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Tokyo</st1:City>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">Japan</st1:country-region></st1:place>

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?” Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 (Los Angeles

Guruvani Prabhu, being marginal means there is always choice even in Goloka. There is no forgetfulness or envy in Goloka however, there is always choice, and if we choose to follow our self concocted dreams, then forgetfulness follows as we enter into material existence. Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsnaloka, there’s no possibility of falling back. Srila Prabhupada: No! There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking something. Now, if somebody comes, ‘Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,’ I’ll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I’ll never become.” Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108 (San Francisco, February 18, 1967) Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa: Fall down? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice,Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go . . . Otherwise what is the meaning of free will?” Morning Walk, Cheviot Hills Golf Course May 13, 1973 (Los Angeles Translator: The question is: did we fall in this material world to find some highest pleasure? His question is did we fall in the material world to experience something, which is higher? Srila Prabhupada: I do not follow. Yogesvara: I think his question is the husband will leave the wife because he is dissatisfied. But if our love for Krsna originally is perfect why should we have left? Srila Prabhupada: YOU HAVE LEFT... Just like somebody is daily eating puris and halava, and he wants to eat also puffed rice. So that tendency is there. That is also a side of enjoyment. ‘I am eating daily this, let me eat this.’ What is the difficulty? That tendency is there. That is also enjoyment. After all, we are hankering after enjoyment, anandamayo 'bhyasat. So, different taste we desire, that, "Let me taste this, let me taste that, let me taste that." So the real basic principle is enjoyment, sense enjoyment. That's all." Bhagavada-gita Lecture August 5, 1976 (Paris)

I notice you can't get your head around a lot of what Srila Prabhupada says. Everything I have posted is clearly backed up by what Srila Prabhupada has told us but only our degree of service to Srila Prabhupada will reveal that to us. Srila Prabhupada - “Your next question, "Is a pure devotee eternally liberated and if so is he at any time a conditioned soul? We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated? You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned. Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the living entity is not actually conditioned. A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent. Therefore a living entity is called on the marginal state, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. These are very intelligent questions. And I am very glad that you are putting such intelligent questions and trying to understand it. It is very good”. Letter to Aniruddha dasa, Los Angeles 14 November 1968<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada: You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada says that as living souls we are all originally Krishna conscious. But what does that mean? Were we all originally with Krishna in the spiritual world? And if so, how could we ever have fallen? In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna says, “Once you attain to that spiritual world, you never fall.” So how then could we have fallen from there to begin with? <o:p></o:p> Some have tried to work around this problem by suggesting a different idea: We fell not from Krishna’s personal abode but from the brahmajyoti, the effulgent light that surrounds it. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, yogis who seek the impersonal aspect of the Supreme may merge into that effulgent light—only to fall back later to the material world. Perhaps, then, we originally fell from the brahmajyoti. Srila Prabhupada rejected this idea. Those in the brahmajyoti, he wrote, are not Krishna conscious, so they too are fallen. “So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.” <o:p></o:p> Well, then, since we’re called “eternally conditioned,” eternally illusioned, perhaps we’ve never really fallen at all—we’ve just always been down. That idea, too, Srila Prabhupada rejected. <o:p></o:p> “Eternally conditioned,” he explained, simply means that we’ve been down so long that when we fell is no longer possible to know.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada – “If one understands Krsna, then all the departments of knowledge are part and parcel of that understanding. Krsna is transcendental, for He is always situated in His eternal internal potency. The living entities are manifested and are divided into two classes, eternally conditioned and eternally liberated. Such living entities are innumerable, and they are considered fundamental parts of Krsna. Material energy is manifested into twenty-four divisions. The creation is effected by eternal time, and it is created and dissolved by external energy. This manifestation of the cosmic world repeatedly becomes visible and invisible”. Bhagavad gita as it is Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation <o:p></o:p> <o:p>"Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has turned his face away from the Lord from time immemorial". - Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya lila, 20.108.</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned but factually every marginal living entity has these two fold characteristics. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease. </o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya's influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. But his relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.Letter to: Jagadisa : 70-02-27 Los Angeles</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>"This external energy of the Lord covers up the pure knowledge of the living entity's eternally existing with Him, but the covering is so constant that it appears that the conditioned soul is eternally ignorant". - Srimad Bhagavatam, 2.5.19, purport.</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>Srila Prabhupada - "This is maha-bhagavata nitya-siddha. And sadhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of maha-bhagavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become maha-bhagavata or nitya-siddha, because originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world, and he was delivered also, both of them were delivered". Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977 </o:p>

Correction On the other hand, the nitya-siddha devotee’s are aware of the dark cloud in Spiritual Sky called the mahat-tattva that is real but only a temporary manifestation and is a place where the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious dreams go to be embodied and pursued. The paradox here is such dreams have no effect in perpetual time in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha and on return to their genuine perepetual bodily svarupa self; it will be as if they never left. <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]-->

Srila Prabhupada said on April 20, 1972, in Tokyo, Japan - “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” Srila Prabhupada says that we were originally with Krsna and are now in a situation where “we think we have fallen’. Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”. Srila Prabhupada - “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”. Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there”. Srila Prabhupada – “In the material condition of all living entities, there are three stages of dreaming. When the material world is awake and put in working order, this is a kind of dream, a waking dream. When the living entities go to sleep, they dream again. And when unconscious at the time of annihilation, when this material world is unmanifested, they enter another stage of dreaming. At any stage in the material world, therefore, they are all dreaming. In the spiritual world, however, everything is awake”. Srimad Bhagavatam canto 8 chapter 1 text 9 purport. So how can we be in the material and spiritual world simultaneously? The answer is the time factor and not the division of the self. The nitya-siddha is referred to as the eternal form or higher self of ones marginal identity while the nitya-baddha consciousness is devoid of form and is referred to as the secondary inferior conscious projection or lower self that is activated by ones non-Krishna conscious desires, dreams and thoughts. It only appears that way due to eternal time in relation to divided time. These realizations cannot be learnt on an academic level, they must come from the amazing and causeless mercy of the Srila Prabhupada. Acintyah means inconceivable though the way to understand the apparent existence and paradox of both the nitya-siddha body and the nitya-baddha consciousness existing at the same time is that the nitya-siddha bodily self is eternally liberated in Goloka, existing in the endless presents and pastimes of Krishna, while the nitya-baddha bodiless dreaming consciousness is eternally conditioned outside the Vaikuntha realm in either a conscious Impersonal inactive dormant condition, where one is not aware of past, present and future or within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu, where the nitya-baddha consciousness is confined to ethereal and biological bodily vessels that He provides so one can actively act out their dreams within His mahat-tattva. As already explained, the mahat-tattva is governed by past, present and future that has the by-product of impermanence and decay, both are temporary conditions because the nitya-baddha consciousness is not who one really is perpetually. The marginal living entity does not go from nitya siddha to nitya badda as one moderator misunderstood, THATS NOT POSSIBLE because eveyone is always nitya-siddha and only DREAM they are nitya baddha. The nitya-siddha svarupa identity is eternally ones genuin identity perpetually. The dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness on the other hand enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.and is given ethereal and biological bodily facilities or vessels that make such dreams real but subject to decay or real but temporary. At the same 'time' that one chooses to be absorbed in their non-Krishna nitya-baddha dreams, ones 'svarupa' body is perpetually in Goloka.in the eternal 'present'. Unfortunately even many ISKCON devotees cannot understand this and choose to not get involved. At times Srila Prabhupada said it was a waste of time to understand and at other times he said it was important to understand. We must remember that ISKCON is only in the very early pioneering stages and many great souls are waiting for the right time to take birth when they feel their Spiritual development is protected and nurtured with eyes open with knowledge and devotion and not imitation. .The ISKCON movement will attract great souls as devotees become genuinely pure, humble and strong without imitation. There is a great Spiritual change coming! Ones awareness of reality is simply based on the concept of time governed by whether one chooses to serve Krishna or reject Krishna. From the nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily point of view, the nitya-baddha bodiless consciousness simply does not exist; it’s not even an illusion to them because such an illusion does not exist as part of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body. This is important to understand. On the other hand, the nitya-siddha devotee’s are aware of the dark cloud in Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky that is real but only a temporary manifestation and is a place where the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious dreams go to be embodied and pursued. The paradox here is such dreams have no effect in perpetual time in Goloka-Vrndavana and on return to their genuine bodily svarupa self; it will be as if they never left. Srila Prabhupada explains ones so called fall down like this and then says that technically one never falls down, they only 'think' they have left Goloka. Srila Prabhupada also explains that the tendency or possibility is always there with all marginal devotees to forget Krishna and their eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa body they serve Krishna as, because of being marginal energy of the Lord. One can either choose to stay with Krishna or reject Him due to their independent marginal status. Such wishes are the choice all marginal living entities have – that is why they are called marginal. Srila Prabhupada clearly tells us that actually no-one falls down because their svarupa body never leaves Goloka-Vrndavana and that one only ‘thinks’ they are fallen or ‘dreams’ they are fallen, but in the perpetual reality of the eternal 'presents' of Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, no one never falls down.

IMPORTANT CORRECTION As already explained, the mahat-tattva is governed by past, present and future that has the by-product of impermanence and decay, both are temporary conditions because the nitya-baddha consciousness is not who one really is perpetually. The marginal living entity does not go from nitya siddha to nitya badda as one moderater missunderstood, THATS NOT POSSIBLE because eveyone is always nitya-siddha and only DREAM they are nitya baddha. The nitya-siddha svarupa identity is eternally ones genuin identity perpetually. The dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness on the other hand enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.and is given ethereal and biological bodily fascilities or vessels that make such dreams real but subject to decay or real but temporary. At the same 'time' that one chooses to be absorbed in their non-Krishna nitya-baddha dreams, ones 'svarupa' body is perpetually in Goloka.in the eternal 'present'.

The following is related to the above Srila Prabhupada – “In the material condition of all living entities, there are three stages of dreaming. When the material world is awake and put in working order, this is a kind of dream, a waking dream. When the living entities go to sleep, they dream again. And when unconscious at the time of annihilation, when this material world is unmanifested, they enter another stage of dreaming. At any stage in the material world, therefore, they are all dreaming. In the spiritual world, however, everything is awake”. Srimad Bhagavatam canto 8 chapter 1 text 9 purport. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> So how can we be in the material and spiritual world simultaneously?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The answer is the time factor and not the division of the self. The nitya-siddha is referred to as the eternal form or higher self of ones marginal identity while the nitya-baddha consciousness is devoid of form and is referred to as the secondary inferior conscious projection or lower self that is activated by ones non-Krishna conscious desires, dreams and thoughts. <o:p></o:p> It only appears that way due to eternal time in relation to divided time. These realizations cannot be learnt on an academic level, they must come from the amazing and causeless mercy of the Srila Prabhupada. <o:p></o:p> Acintyah means inconceivable though the way to understand the apparent existence and paradox of both the nitya-siddha body and the nitya-baddha consciousness existing at the same time is that the nitya-siddha bodily self is eternally liberated in Goloka, existing in the endless presents and pastimes of Krishna, while the nitya-baddha bodiless dreaming consciousness is eternally conditioned outside the Vaikuntha realm in either a conscious Impersonal inactive dormant condition, where one is not aware of past, present and future or within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu, where the nitya-baddha consciousness is confined to ethereal and biological bodily vessels that He provides so one can actively act out their dreams within His mahat-tattva. <o:p></o:p> As already explained, the mahat-tattva is governed by past, present and future that has the by-product of impermanence and decay, both are temporary conditions because the nitya-baddha consciousness is not who one really is perpetually. The marginal living entity does not go from nitya siddha to nitya badda as one moderater missunderstood, no its it not that eveyone is always nitya-siddha bur DREAM they are nitya baddha. The nitya-siddha svarupa identity is eternal and ones genuin identity. The nitya-baddha consciousness is just part of the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> Unfortunately even many ISKCON devotees cannot understand this and choose to not get involved. At times Srila Prabhupada said it was a waste of time to understand and at other times he said it was important to understand. We must remember that ISKCON is only in the very early pioneering stages and many great souls are waiting for the right time to take birth when they feel their Spiritual development is protected and nurtured with eyes open with knowledge and devotion and not imitation. .The ISKCON movement will attract great souls as devotees become genuinely pure, humble and strong without imitation. There is a great Spiritual change coming! <o:p></o:p> Ones awareness of reality is simply based on the concept of time governed by whether one chooses to serve Krishna or reject Krishna. From the nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily point of view, the nitya-baddha bodiless consciousness simply does not exist; it’s not even an illusion to them because such an illusion does not exist as part of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body. This is important to understand. <o:p></o:p> On the other hand, the nitya-siddha devotee’s are aware of the dark cloud in Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky that is real but only a temporary manifestation and is a place where the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious dreams go to be embodied and pursued. The paradox here is such dreams have no effect in perpetual time in Goloka-Vrndavana and on return to their genuine bodily svarupa self; it will be as if they never left. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada explains ones so called fall down like this and then says that technically one never falls down, they only 'think' they have left Goloka. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada also explains that the tendency or possibility is always there with all marginal devotees to forget Krishna and their eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa body they serve <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</st1:place>. <o:p></o:p> <font face=" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> as because of being marginal energy of the Lord. One can either choose to stay with <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> or reject him due to their independent marginal status. Such wishes are the choice all marginal living entities have – that is why they are called marginal. <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>Srila Prabhupada clearly tells us that actually no-one falls down because their svarupa body never leaves Goloka-Vrndavana and that one only ‘thinks’ they are fallen or ‘dreams’ they are fallen, but in the perpetual reality of the eternal 'presents' of Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, no one never falls down.

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Pastimes One saintly brahmana who was most virtuous was touring the places of pilgrimage in order to obtain Sri Krishna. He used to worship Gopala by chanting the six-syllable Gopala mantra, and without having offered bhoga to Gopala he would eat nothing. Hanging from his neck like a brilliant jewel was his Bala Gopala Salagrama. By his transcendental good fortune, one day he came to the home of Jagannatha Misra in Navadvipa. The pious pilgrim's brahma-tejas was incomparable; from his mouth, the sound "Krsna, Krsna" was always emanating, and within his heart he was always relishing the transcendental mellows of affection for Govinda, such that his eyes were always filled with tears. Seeing such a devotee, Jagannatha Misra at once got up and offered him respects. Jagannatha Misra did everthing appropriate to receive his exalted guest. He washed the water of that brahmana's feet and offered him an elevated seat. Inquiring about his welfare, Sri Misra said, "Dearmost brahmana, where is your residence?" The brahmana replied, "Having become indifferent to household life, I have left my own country and continually wander from one holy place to another. I cannot become attached to any one place any longer. That's why I constantly wander." Sri Misra responded with great humility, "Actually, I think that you are wandering about just to spread good fortune among the residents of this world. Especially today the topmost fortune is mine. If you give me your order, may I make arrangements for your meal?" The brahmana said, "Misraji, whatever you desire." Sri Misraji in great ecstasy collected the best of all materials and cleaned the kitchen thoroughly and presented everything to the brahmana. He also supplied the best of all foodstuffs from his pantry. The brahmana, becoming very happy, cooked everthing and sat with eyes closed in meditation to offer the bhoga to Sri Gopala Krsna (his Salagram shila). Sri Sacinandana is the all-knowing Supersoul in the hearts of all living entities. He desired to give His darsana to that brahmana. The brahmana had just begun his meditation when the Lord crawled into his presence. His whole body was covered with dust and he was wearing no clothes at all. His eyes were very restless, and His feet were most beautiful. The child laughed and took a mouthful of the bhoga and the brahmana's meditation was broken. That fortunate brahmana saw what had happened and cried, "Hay! Hay! This child has ruined my offering. Sri Jagannatha Misra came and saw little Gaurasundara eating rice and smiling. Misra became furious and ran toward the child to beat him. The brahmana quickly got up and caught Jagannathe Misra with his hand saying, "Misra, you are very great, you're a very intelligent, pious gentleman. You know better than to hit a child. You know the nature of children. They know no distinction between good or bad. Please do not hit the child." Sri Misra, becoming dejected, sat down and held his head in his hands. He was so angry, he could say nothing. The brahmana said, "Misra, don't become dejected like this. Some days are like this. Bhagavan knows everything. Some days I get only fruits from a house; sometimes wonderful foodstuffs. I'll just take something simple today. Please don't mind." Misraji said, "Priyavara, if you will consider me your servant, please once more cook in my kitchen. I will supply you everything you need. Please cook again and my mind will become peaceful. This is my only request." The brahmana replied, "All right. If that is your desire I will cook again." Hearing this, everyone was happy, and somehow or other collected everything from other places, cleaned everything, and arranged for the brahmana to again cook. Everyone said to one another, "This child is too restless. See that he is restrained and cannot return again to cause more disturbances." For as long as the brahmana was cooking, the Lord was taken to another house and kept there. Then Sacimata, holding young Nimai in her arms, took him away to another house. There, all the ladies said, "Why Nimai? Why did you eat the brahmana's offering?" The Lord smiled. His smile was as beautiful as the moon. He then said, "What fault of mine is there in this? The brahmana himself called me to eat!" They all said, "You rascal Nimai! You ate his cooking, but do you know what his caste is? Or where he's come from? What will you do now? How will you maintain your caste?" Nimai smiled and said, "I am just a cowherd, but I eat the food of brahmanas all the time. Can a cowherd's caste be spoiled by eating the cooking of brahmana?" They all looked at Nimai's mouth and they all looked at Nimai's mouth and began to laugh. Sri Gaura was explaining his factual identity, but they were unable to understand a single thing of it. Hearing the Lord's words, they simply laughed and squeezed Nimai to their breasts; they were unfazed. The brahmana again finished cooking and offered the bhoga to Gopala with his eyes closed, seated in meditation. He began to meditate upon Bala Gopala in his heart. This fact was taken note of by Sri Gauracandra. He is the Lord within the heart. Bewildering everyone, and laughing to Himself, He somehow escaped that house and arrived once more to where the brahmana was meditating. Quietly, He sneaked a fistful of rice and put it into His mouth. The sounds of His munching broke the brahmana's meditation--he saw Nimai. The brahmana again cried, "Hay! Hay!" and Sri Gaura Prabhu swallowd the rice and ran off. Misraji saw this and quickly took one big stick in a rage, and ran off to catch Nimai. Sri Gauranga became most fearful and ran from one house to another, and Misraji quickly followed Him, burning with anger. Sri Misra said, " If I catch you for what you've done today, I will beat you with this stick. I've lost all my patience and discrimination.Where is that great thief of a son of mine? Which house is He hiding in?" Saying this, Jagannatha Misra pursued his son Nimai. Everyone began to say, "Misraji, you're very great and magnanimous. You ought to forgive such a minor offense. These children, they have no sense. How can you beat a mere child like this? In this way, they began to give him instruction, but to no avail. Somehow or other, the pious brahmana appeared on the scene and, clutching Jagannatha Misra's hand said, "Misra Rai, look, there's no fault in this boy. What's meant to happen is meant to happen. It just must be my fate that today Krsna will not accept my bhoga offering. That's my problem. Please don't be so dejected. This I'm telling you." Jagannatha Misra simply stood there completely angry and completely miserable. At this point, Bhagavan Visvarupa arrived there. There was incomparable beauty in all of His limbs and He had great transcendental effulegence, and charming countenance, with a yajna-sutra hanging from His shoulder, He was the personification of brahma-tejas. He was non-different from Nityananda Prabhu. All the sastric conclusions were always ready upon His tongue, and He was always explaining pure devotional service to Lord Krsna. Seeing such an unprecedented personality, the pious brahmana was struck with wonder and began to look at Him. His eyes filled with tears. He asked, "Noble Sir, whose son are You?" Everyone answered, "He is the elder son of Jagannatha Misra." Hearing this, the brahmana became very happy and embraced Visvarupa. "Your mother and father are most fortunate to have such an unequalled son as you." Sri Visvarupa offered His pranamas to the brahmana and the two sat down. As if exuding a stream of nectar from His transcendental mouth, He said, "What a fortunate, greatly auspicious day has come upon us. My house is blessed with such a saintly personality as Your Grace. Great personalities such as you wander from one place to another to bless the denizens of this planet with your purifying association. You are always full in ecstasy and, freed from any material desire, simply wander at will filled with bliss. We are most fortunate that you have arrived as an unexpected guest in our house today. What can I say of our misfortune that you are fasting? The house from which a guest leaves without having eaten will only see misfortune henceforth. Having your darshana, I am most fortunate but hearing what everyone (about your fasting) has said, I have become most unhappy. The brahmana said, don't be unhappy about anything. If there are any roots or berries available, I am content to eat that only. I am a forest-dweller, and I am well-accustomed to eating such things. Some days, nice grains are cooked, and sometimes there is some obstacle which makes this impossible. Just seeing you people has given me greater joy millions and millions of nicely prepared offerings. Jagannatha Misra has been standing nearby, silent. He was unable to speak. Holding his head in his hands, he was simply overcome with despondancy. Sri Visvarupa said, "I am a little fearful to say this, but you are a great personality, and great personalities are like oceans of mercy. Sadhus are always unhappy at the unhappiness of others. They become jublilant in the rejoicings of others too. Therefore if you are pleased to take a little trouble to cook once more and offer your bhogas to Lord Krishna, then everyone's unhappiness will be mitigated. Then we will all experience paramananda." Sri Visvarupa continued, "Priyavara, please don't take offense, please cook something at least, just once more, and everyone will become happy. Bowing down, He clutched the feet of that brahmana in his hand with this entreaty. The brahmana looked at Visvambhara and said, "Alright, I will cook." Hearing this, everyone became joyful again, singing out, "Hari bol, Hari bol!" They all cleaned the kitchen again and in but a minute, everything was assembled and ready. The brahmana then entered the kitchen. Sri Gaura-gopala took note of this. Everyone told Jagannatha Misra, "Misra, lock your door from outside so that Nimai won't be able to get out." Misra said, "Good, I've already locked Him up inside, too. Meanwhile everyone on the outside locked the door to Jagannatha Misra's house from the outside. The ladies all said, "Don't worry, Nimai has gone to sleep now--He won't be going out to eat anything tonight!" The brahmana soon finished his cooking. That fortunate brahmana then began to offer his bhoga to Lord Bala Gopala. The indwelling Supersoul Sri Gaurasundara then thought, "The bhoga is ready now." Once again, the desire to give His darshana to that brahmana arose within His heart. Thus the Lord left the house while everyone was sleeping (by this time, it was late at night). Nobody knew about this. Nimai appeared at the place where the brahmana was meditating. Seeing the child again, the brahmana again cried, "Hay! Hay!" In utter frustration, he began to cry. But this time nobody heard him -- they were all fast asleep. Then Sri Mahaprabhu said, "Oh, brahmana, you are very exalted. What is My fault if I come as soon as you call Me? You're chanting My mantra, invoking My name, how can I not come? Every time you're making your offering with such pure devotion, so every time I come to give you My darshana. At that very moment, the brahmana had the darshans of Lord Gaura in a wonderful form. Before him, Lord Caitanya manifested His eight-armed Bala Gopala form. In four hands were the conch, disc, club, and lotus; with two hands, He was playing the flute; in one hand He was holding a ball of butter; and with the other hand He was eating butter. Upon His breast were the srivatsa and the kaustubha jewel, and brilliant garlands of jewels hung from His neck. All of His limbs were bedecked with beautiful ornaments and jewels, and upon His head was an ornament of gunja beads and a peacock feather. The lips of His moon-like mouth were enchanting, and He looked about here and there as He smiled. He had a vaijayanti mala, and there were shark-shaped earrings swinging from His ears. There were jewelled ankle bracelets upon His feet, and His toenails were resplendent. The brahmana then saw that the Lord was beneath a kadamba tree and He saw Vrindaban, there were birds flying in all directions. On all sides of the Lord, there were cows, gopas, and gopis. Whatever the brahmana was accustomed to meditating upon within his heart, that beautiful vision was now manifest directly before his eyes. That fortunate brahmana saw such wonderful opulence that he simply fainted in bliss. The ocean of mercy, Sri Gaurasundara held him in His own transcendental hands. From His touch, the brahmana regained consciousness, but he was struck dumb with transcendental bliss and he could not even utter a word. Again and again, he fainted to the ground, and again and again he would rise in great ecstasy. There was perspiration, trembling, horipilation, and all manifestation of ecstatic symptoms in his body. A vast river of tears flowed from his eyes. For a moment the brahmana regained his sense and fell at the feet of Sri Gauranga and began to cry loudly. Seeing the condition of this brahmana, Lord Gauranga began to laugh. Sri Gaura Prabhu said, "He, Priyavara, listen. You are My servant for many births. You are always desiring my darsana, and in this way I am always giving you My darshana. In a previous birth, I gave you My darshana in just this way in the house of Nanda Maharaja. You don't remember this. When I appeared in the home of Nanda Maharaja in Gokula, in that birth, you too appeared as a brahmana wandering from one holy place to another. By transcendental fate, you came to the home of Nanda Maharaja and offered bhoga in just this way. At that time, I tricked you and ate your offerings, giving you My darshana just as I have today. You are My servant birth after birth. How could you get the darshana of such a wonderful form if it were not so? The Lord then said, "Hey vipra! This is a very confidential matter. You should not disclose this to anyone. If you mention this to anyone, I will annihilate you! Listen, I have now appeared in this world for the purpose of spreading Krsna Sankirtana, and I will do this. I will go house to house giving out such devotional service as either Lord Brahma or Siva cannot desire. In this way, Sri Gaurasundara pacified the brahmana, and bestowing His mercy upon him left the room. Becoming as if an ordinary baby again, He went to sleep with His mother. No one was able to understand any of these activities because of the agency of Yogamaya. Having seen this wonderful form of the Lord, the brahmana, his whole body filled with ecstasy, took the wonderful prasadam of the Lord and danced in ecstasy, crying, laughing, and singing, "Bala Gopala ki jaya!" Repeated sounds of his calling and crying woke the others in the house. They shook off sleep, said achamana, and came to see the brahmana. Seeing him, everyone became very happy. The brahmana in his mind again and again began to think, "If I could only tell these people that Parameswara is living in their home, they could become liberated from material existence and go back to Godhead." Then he thought, "Oh, even Brahma and Siva cannot have such good fortune to have the Supreme Lord living with them. They all simply think that He is an ordinary child. If I could inform them of the real situation, they could obtain the Supreme destination. But then he remembered that the Lord told him not to reveal this to anyone. And he became afraid, the Lord's request should not be broken. In this way the brahmana said nothing to anyone. Having recognized Bhagavan, that brahmana then stayed only in Navadvipa and resided there concealing his feelings. That brahmana would go here and there to beg and every day would come with the hope of seeing Lord Gaura Bhagavan. http://www.salagram.net/sstp-bhoga1.html: http://www.salagram.net/sstp-ARTICLES.html