Vigraha

I am very serious and always have been on this subject. My understanding has not changed since 1972 This is how His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains this to us.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada is saying that our original and perpetual state of being a nitya siddha bodily servant of Krishna, MEANS never falling down, however he is also saying that the memory of being nitya-siddha can be covered over by the choice to imagine your own existence without Krishna, just like one may go into a day dream in their present material body and dream they are a King, while in the meantime their 'dreaming' material body has not moved. In this way Srila Prabhupada is saying that nitya siddha’s can be covered over only and the memory of being nitya-siddha forgotten, like one forgets their material body while dreaming. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> What he means by saying nitya siddha's never fall down, is they are always nitya-siddhas just like the sun is always the sun even though it might be covered by the clouds. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Nitya siddha means eternally liberated or established, so when a nitya siddha becomes covered, like the cloud covers the sun, he becomes eternally conditioned or nitya baddha (due to the cloud covering) however the nitya-siddha body, like the Sun, is eternally there behind the clouds, behind the baddha-jiva consciousness.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In fact most devotees in Goloka never allow their awareness of being nitya-siddha be covered by the selfish nitya baddha sub-conscious dream state. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore most marginal living entities do NOT allow themselves to be covered by non Krishna Conscious desires that manifest their baddha-jiva consciousness because their desire is to always put Krishna first by being absorbed in serving Him as nitya siddha. Such inconceivable statements are mind-boggling because how is it possible to calculate % of a % in an endless Spiritual creation? <o:p></o:p> So it is impotant to undertand that ALL nitya-siddhas never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha, some however, imagine and dream they do, BUT NEVER AS THEIR NITYA SIDDHA BODY. Most never enter the world of imagination and therefore never experience the shackles of Maya as nitya baddha.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, it is due to the cloud covering we cannot see our real eternal nitya-siddha identity because our awareness is now restricted by that cloud covering or nitya-baddha consciousness. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This cloud covering is all we are aware off because it has blocked out the sun. We are not able to see the sun shinning due to the cloud covering the sun. The sun is still there, just as our nitya-siddha body is there in Goloka however; it is not realized because of the cloud cover therefore, we are nitya-baddha. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We can’t be nitya-siddha at this time because we cannot see or be aware of that covered identity. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore our only present awareness of ourselves is solely nitya-baddha and remains so until we remove the dark cloud covering of material desires by replacing them with devotional Krishna Conscious desires. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Then gradually the cloud cover or nitya-baddha dreaming condition is dissipated revealing the sun or our eternal nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily identity eternally serving Krishna.

:<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Kulapavana Here we go again, YOUR SOUL IS RIGHT HERE, IN YOUR HEART! not in Goloka! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there"<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud",<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Actually, you are NOT conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream that tiger is eating you".<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> All marginal living entities in Vaikuntha can project a hologram version of themselves known as the nitya-baddha consciousness to the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This secondary self or baddha-jiva is a living holographic countefeit projection of the living entity that enables one to enter the mahat-tattva and attempt to fulfil their dreams to achieve anything they want

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Kulapavana we were "lost" simply because we chose the material bank of the Viraja River, instead of swimming towards Vaikunthaloka. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> No that is incorrect as Srila Prabhupada clearly explains. We may have been to the vraj river or even the impersonal Brahmajyoti, but long, long, long before that, we were aware of being ALWAYS with Krishna in Goloka All marginal living entities in Vaikuntha can project a hologram version of themselves known as the nitya-baddha consciousness. This secondary self is a living holographic countefeit projection of the living entity that enables one to enter the mahat-tattva and attempt to fulfil their dreams to achieve anything they want, hence, you can have anything, it just may take you a billion life times in the mahat-tattva to achieve it. And then it fades and becomes as if it never was, moving on again within the cycle of birth and death. This sub-conscious projection of the self (a living hologram known as the baddha-jiva) is just as real as its nitya siddha bodily origins however, baddha-jivas experience, realities and perception of its existence is temporary and always in the mode of decay within the perishable mahat-tattva it takes shelter in. The baddha-jiva consciousness manifests as soon as the marginal living entity chooses to serve their own selfish desires instead of Krishna in GOLOKA.

Yeah, I fixed that, the color code I use ir Blue for Krishna, Vishnu tattvas and internal paraphenalla Purple for the marginal living entities or all entities who are not Vishnu tattva Brown for the material energy, mahat-tattva, ethereal vessels, biological vessels and every other kind of vessel within the mahat-tattva or material creation Red should be used for arguments that one does not agree with Any suggestions? There is no qustion about it, we all are the devotee pioneers of the internet

Firstly Prabhupada, who gave us the correct teachings of all Vedic knowledge, can - Srila Prabhupada - "We all have come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago” Lecture August 6, 1973 Secondly, you ARE one of Krishnas eternal associates but YOU have forgotten this fact long, long, long ago, this is not easy to understand, this is why Prabhupada has explained it as follows - Srila Prabhupada- "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya. Actually, you are NOT conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967) I recently heard a lecture by Banu Swami in Melbourne Australia, and even he cannot understand that entering Goloka or Vaikuntha, is something to be regained (he was clearly making out the jiva had never previously been with Krishna that implies we come from the impersonal Brahmajyoti) Many cannot understand this word "regained" You are not alone Beggar. Banu Swami could not understand that being a pure devotee is the eternal svarupa of ALL living entities and that IS our eternal constitutional position, it IS something to be regained, remembered, re-established. Banu Swami gave many devotees the wrong understanding that most of us have never been with Krishna and that the 'jiva-soul' has come from the impersonal Brahmajyot and now must earn its right to enter Vaikuntha. This impersonal origins is NOT what Prabhupada has taught us - I did not like this aspect of his class at all even though he is a very learned humble selfless Vaishnava We are already liberated right now, we are with Krishna right now, we just have to REMEMBER who we really are instead of living in our own baddha-jiva imaginary dream creations, Srila Prabhupada is telling us Thirdly, most will never understand this subject no matter how expertise it is written. Without the causeless kindness and mercy of one's Spiritual Master, the origin of the jiva soul will always remain a mystery and hidden secret from them, or maybe the Spiritual Master does not reveal this such knowledge to everyone because it is not nessessary for everyone to know, after all we all have different personal individual relationships with Krishna - Your quote Beggar sums this up, "The real guru is expert at applying these apparently contradictory concepts for the correct time, place and circumstance because he has a mature, developed relationship with Krsna. He is experiencing the real bliss of chanting the holy name of Krsna and we are all hankering after that experience. This is what we are really after, not being right or correct about the origin of the soul question. And besides even if we are correct, it can only be hollow words for us because we are not actually experiencing the spiritual reality". Very well and excellently said Beggar, even Hari Sauri Prabhu (I am presently reading his books and I advice you and everyone else on this web site to get a copy of his Transcendental Diaries if you want to understand the mood of Srila Prabhupada), who I admire as one of Prabhupada's best disciples in understanding his books, would like the way you have explained this. Hari Sauri Prabhu has told the devotees on many occasions over the years, that only our service (Bhakti) and purity can reveal the truth of Krishna Consciousness and not jnan alone And as Beggar also wrote - "And besides even if we are correct, it can only be hollow words for us because we are not actually experiencing the spiritual reality".

Interesting reading however I would just like to make a short comment Marginal - The living entities or jiva-tatasthas (of whom their full potential is nitya-siddha in Goloka) are perpetually independent and eternally have the free will to accept or reject Krishna. Marginal means they have the choice to be with Krishna as who they really are (nitya-siddha) or manifest their own imaginary world as nitya-baddha in the mahat-tattva. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Having choice as a marginal living entity (jiva-tatastha), is what it really means to be in-between the Superior and inferior. <o:p></o:p> The marginal aspect of the creation is not a place or plain, but rather the individual jiva's who ARE the tatastha s'aktis or 'so called' marginal individual living beings, who can choose to be aware of their eternal bodily identity serving Krishna in Goloka. Or they can forget their eternal identity and only be aware of the restrictions of chasing their own selfish desires, thoughts and imaginary worlds within Maha-Vishnu's temporary DREAM perishable creation of Maha Vishnu known as the mahat-tattva material worlds.

Yeah his my old mate, we travelled all over Australia and India together, leads a good kirtan and gave inspiring classes

Actually you are a pure devotee but you have forgotten that long, long, long ago, we have allowed ourselves to be covered by the cloud of selfish desires that blocks out our memory of who we really are. Try to understand what Prabhupada is telling us. Srila Prabhupada- "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

uote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by LoveroftheBhagavata <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> That's amazing indeed, spend billions erecting edifices that have as underlying motivating rationale nothing else than mythology and fantasy, and that in effect amount to no more than ostentatious showing-off</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> The above is a load of bitter, faithless envious nonsense. The only way to make this world a better place is by recognizing and glorifying God (Sri Krsna Caitanya), but only a true devotee can understand that as explained below -. Devotees of Lord Caitanya a very, very rare, take advantage of their association. If you are near a Temple, go and chant Hare Krsna in front of the Dieties with the devotees and then honor prasadam. Don't waste this rare human form and ignore devotees. Just leave your false ego at the front door of the Temple in what ever country you are in and just humbly chant Hare Krishna with the devotees. Every step you take towards Krsna, He will take a hundred thousnd steps towards you!! Somehow, even in disguise if nessessary, always associate with devotee of Sri Krsna Caitanya

such fools are 'god' spelt backwards

Then along came kali-yuga

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0> Quote There were mystical powers, huge cities floating in the air at the same time the biological evolutionary process was going on the floor of the planet that the 'celestials Vedic universal travellers' left alone. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The idea that Satya-yuga, Treta and the earlier parts of Dvapara-yuga, even though on this planet, existed in a higher realm of material reality distinguished from the mundane evolution of us humans and the lower species of life going happening on the planets surface, sounds correct? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> However, does the Srimad Bhagavatam support this theory? <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

With songs and tears, Lila's Hare Krishna kindred send her to the next life <!--articleTools Top--> Lila's mother Susan Manning, sister Marie and brother Bhisma mourn as her body is prepared for cremation. <SMALL></SMALL> <SMALL>Photo: Matt Wade</SMALL> <!--featurePic-wide--> "Lila" Salter died surrounded by the sound of sacred songs, the smell of incense and with her wounded head ringed with garlands. The Australian teenager's three-day fight for life after being shot at close range by a stalker in the north Indian town of Vrindavan ended early yesterday. Lila's mother Susan Manning, father Ian Salter and brothers and sisters were with her when she died, along with many supporters from the Hare Krishna movement she was a part of. Her brother Zardi Manning said the holy chants being recited by loved ones where Lila lay reached a peak as she died. "It was very amazing and beautiful," he told The Age. "She was very peaceful. It was exactly what she would have wanted." Zardi then accompanied his sister's body while an autopsy was conducted by local authorities before a traditional Hindu funeral and cremation could begin. "I'm being as strong as I can right now," he said. "But it's going to take a lifetime to get over this." Zardi was at the house where Lila was attacked and had to resuscitate her several times while she was rushed to hospital. Their grieving mother, who lives on the Gold Coast when she is not in India, said there was a sense of relief when Lila died. "It's a good thing that she is now free," Ms Manning said. The family says her killer, Saurav Singh, 28, had stalked her for several years before first raping her and then shooting her with a pistol early on Saturday. She was rushed to a New Delhi hospital but specialist doctors said she was brain dead. Using an ambulance with life support equipment, the family then took Lila back to the holy city of Vrindavan to die. She spent the last day of her life on life support at a property called the Mayapur Vrindavan Trust, where Hindu pilgrims are accommodated. The family, who are all Hare Krishna devotees, wanted Lila to die in Vrindavan, the place where the deity Krishna is believed to have been raised. "It's our belief that if a person dies here they are going to heaven," Ms Manning said. "By doing this we have turned something so bad into something more positive." She had hoped to avoid an autopsy on her daughter's body but local authorities insisted one be carried out. When the autopsy was finished the body was prepared for a ritual procession to the holy Yamuna River for cremation. It was covered with richly coloured cloth and garlands. "We feel that she is in God's hands," said her mother. "God will now take care of her." Ms Manning wept as she helped prepare the body for the funeral ceremony. The dead woman's father Ian Salter joined with a large gathering of friends and family around the body who were singing spiritual songs. The body was then carried in a small ambulance, followed by a large procession, to a local temple where Lila liked to worship. Her brothers carried her body on a palanquin around the temple three times before the procession headed through the holy city of Vrindavan to the river for cremation. In Memory of Anandalila Posted February 6th, 2008 by newgovardhana in General Community Notices Ananda lila Salter, loving daughter of Jamal Arjuna Das and Subhangi Devi Dasi and adored sister to five other siblings, passed away in Vrindavan, India on the 5<SUP>th</SUP> Feburary 2008. In the memory of Ananda lila Devi Dasi, who was a very dear and dedicated devotee of Krsna, there will be a service held at New Govardhana on Monday 11<SUP>th </SUP>Febuary at 6:00pm N.S.W time. 6:00pm Bhajans 6:30pm Candle lit Gaura Arati ceremony 7:00pm Homages For more information please contact 026672 2773 or 0415 276757 If you have any photos or Ananda Lila you would like to share, please send to dhritigopi@gmail.com

Krishna katha, a breath of fresh air Quote: Beggar <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>The Universal Form In the assembly of the Kurus, when Krsna went to Duryodhana's party with a proposal for peace between the Pandavas and the Kauravas, Duryodhana thought, "Now we have our golden chance. If I can put Krsna in the prison-house now, then the Pandavas will die broken-hearted, and there will be no question of fighting with them." The Kauravas also joined in the scheme, and they told Duhsasana, "Go and bind Krsna with this rope." Duhsasana came with the rope in his hand and tried to bind Krsna. Satyaki, Krsna's attendant, was there, and he furiously came at Duhsasana with a sword. Krsna peacefully caught hold of his hand, and began to manifest himself in such a way that it perplexed Duhsasana . When Duhsasana saw the universal form displayed by Krsna, he thought, "So many figures appear before me. On whom shall I put the rope? Who shall I bind down?" So many figures were displayed by Krsna in his universal form. On one side there was Baladeva and on another side stood Arjuna, and so many revered risis, chanting Krsna's name. Duhsasana was perplexed. And Bhisma and Drona began to sing in praise of Krsna. Everyone thought, "What is this? This is a magnificent vision, with so many faces!" The whole atmosphere was filled with the divine spirit. Then, Devarsi Narada and so many risis began to chant in praise of Krsna. And in this way Krsna manifested his universal form before the assembly. Dhrtarastra was blind, but he could hear them all praising Krsna, and thought to himself, "Some sort of wonderful things are happening around me, but I can't see." And so, he prayed to Krsna. "O Lord, for the moment please remove my blindness. I would like to see your great manifestation. Afterwards, you can make me blind again, but at least for the time being, remove my blindness." Krsna told him, "There is no necessity of removing your blindness. I say that you can see, and you can see." By the Lord's will alone, even physical blindness was no bar to seeing that great manifestation of Krsna. So, the physical eye can't see God: only the divine eye can see him. And by the will of Krsna, the divine eye was temporarily given to Dhrtarastra. His blindness did not stand in the way of his vision, and he could see Krsna. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Wonderful pastime

Technically Buddhists are atheists

Found in the Srimad Bhagavatam, Gita etc

interesting KRISHNA story theist, 99% of the time you talk about Krishna, Its devotees like you that keep me on this thread. I want to advance in Krishna Consciousness. If it is NOT about Krishna then the thread is not worth reading!!

Hey lets move on, christanity has had their two thousand years, out the old and in with the new (the original). Its now the Golden Age of Lord Caitanya. I'm sick of seeing mundane Christian, Jewish and Muslim nonsense on these threads HARE KRISHNA!!

Seaching around and found this, SOME Krishna katha!! too many mundane topics at the moment - give us a break from the Christian and mayavardi!

Free will Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by CCC Is it possible to falldown from the spiritual world (Vaikuntha) ? NO Can I come by my free will to the material world from Vaikuntha or Goloka? YES </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

suchandra PRABHU, YOU ARE AN INSPIRING SOUL. As a famous musical duo who also chanted Hare Krishna wrote and sang, And when the broken hearted people Living in the world agree, There will be an answer, let it be. For though they may be parted there is Still a chance that they will see There will be an answer, let it be. Let it be, let it be. Yeah There will be an answer, let it be Whisper words of wisdom, let it be. Hare Krishna

In his book Laghu-bhagavatamrta, Srila Rupa Gosvami has enumerated the following twenty-five lila-avataras: Catuh-sana, Narada, Varaha, Matsya, Yajna, Nara-Narayana, Kapila, Dattatreya, Hayasirsa (Hayagriva), Hamsa, Prsnigarbha, Rsabha, Prthu, Nrsimha, Kurma, Dhanvantari, Mohini, Vamana, Parasu rama, Raghavendra, Vyasa, Balarama, Krsna, Buddha and Kalki. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not mentioned as a lila-avatara because He is an incarnation in disguise (channa-avata-ra) In this way, He only rarely appear in a Kali Yuga in the disguise of a humble Vaishava sanyasi. In the particular age of Kali yuga He appears (one out of many thousands of Kali-yugas), He is known as the Golden Avatar incarnation of the Lord manifesting AS Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This has been explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam."

In his book Laghu-bhagavatamrta, Srila Rupa Gosvami has enumerated the following twenty-five lila-avataras: Catuh-sana, Narada, Varaha, Matsya, Yajna, Nara-Narayana, Kapila, Dattatreya, Hayasirsa (Hayagriva), Hamsa, Prsnigarbha, Rsabha, Prthu, Nrsimha, Kurma, Dhanvantari, Mohini, Vamana, Parasu rama, Raghavendra, Vyasa, Balarama, Krsna, Buddha and Kalki. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not mentioned as a lila-avatara because He is an incarnation in disguise (channa-avata-ra) In this way, He only rarely appear in a Kali Yuga in the disguise of a humble Vaishava sanyasi. In the particular age of Kali yuga He appears (one out of many thousands of Kali-yugas), He is known as the Golden Avatar incarnation of the Lord manifesting AS Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This has been explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam."