Vigraha

Lord Caitanya does not come in every Kali-yuga and is therefore is not technically named in the Vedas as the Kali-yuga avatar. This is because He very rarely comes as "the Golden Avatar" unless it is a very special Kali-yuga.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> How fortunate all of us are!! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti who composed voluminous Sanskrit scriptures with commentaries, says Lord Caitanya very rarely appears in a Kali-yuga in this world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Krishna wanted to come as the incarnation for this age of Kali, as well as to fulfil His promise in Vrndavana: "I shall chant the glory of the gopis, especially of Radharani. I shall chant Her name. Her glory, and roll in the dust of the earth!" But Radharani said, "won't allow Your body to roll in the dust of this earth. I shall cover You with My lustre." Both the mood as well as the lustre of Radharani captures Krishna when He comes here in Kali-yuga. And this does not occur in all Kali-yugas, but only in a special Kali-yuga. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Jiva Goswami explains the meaning of this verse in his own parallel verse: <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> antah krsnam bahir gauram <o:p></o:p> darsitangadi-vaibhavam <o:p></o:p> kalau ankirtanadyai sma <o:p></o:p> krsna-caitanyam asrita <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "I take shelter of Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is outwardly of a golden complexion, but is inwardly Krishna Himself. In this age of Kali, He displays His expansions while performing congregational chanting of the holy name of Krishna. That He is blackish within means that internally He is Krishna; that He is golden without means that He has accepted the mood of Srimati Radharani. In the age of Kali, that Golden Lord is seen accompanied by His expansions, associates, and intimate devotees performing sankirtana."

The reason why is Lord Caitanya does not come in every Kali-yuga, in fact, He very rarely comes unless it is a special Kali yuga. How fortunate all of us are!! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti who composed voluminous Sanskrit scriptures with commentaries, says Lord Caitanya very rarely appears in a Kali-yuga in this world. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Krishna wanted to come as the incarnation for this age of Kali, as well as to fulfil His promise in Vrndavana: "I shall chant the glory of the gopis, especially of Radharani. I shall chant Her name. Her glory, and roll in the dust of the earth!" But Radharani said, "won't allow Your body to roll in the dust of this earth. I shall cover You with My lustre." Both the mood as well as the luster of Radharani captures Krishna when He comes here in Kali-yuga. And this does not occur in all Kali-yugas, but only in a special Kali-yuga.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Jiva Goswami explains the meaning of this verse in his own parallel verse: <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> antah krsnam bahir gauram<o:p></o:p> darsitangadi-vaibhavam<o:p></o:p> kalau ankirtanadyai sma<o:p></o:p> krsna-caitanyam asrita<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "I take shelter of Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is outwardly of a golden complexion, but is inwardly Krishna Himself. In this age of Kali, He displays His expansions while performing congregational chanting of the holy name of Krishna. That He is blackish within means that internally He is Krishna; that He is golden without means that He has accepted the mood of Srimati Radharani. In the age of Kali, that Golden Lord is seen accompanied by His expansions, associates, and intimate devotees performing sankirtana."

Inspiring pastime

Wonderful and 'confidential' quotes mahak prabhu that only aspiring devotees of Krishna can understand and accept. Hari Bol

CCC Hari bol, for sometime now I have coped srila Prabhupada's famous 1966 chant and have been handing them out to people of all ages. I one Sikh young man who was a security guard in on of Melbourne’s biggest shopping centres and he played Prabhupada chanting Hare Krishna over the PA! There are so many Hindu and Sikhs coming to Australia now and I am always meeting them and telling them to not let the western tradition pull them away from their tradition of Hinduism, then I give them a CD MP3 of Srila Prabhupada chanting Hare Krishna. Then the next time I give them a down load from the Internet of something Srila Prabhupada has said. Your idea of printing books is fantastic. I tell them to always visit the ISKCON Melbourne Temple and if that is too far away then visit the Vishnu Shiva Temple at Carrum Downs because there is a beautiful Gopal Krishna Deity there that I often visit. I have beautiful photos Sri Sri Radha Balabha, Gaura Nita (Lord Caitanya and Nityananda) and Jagannath, Balabhadra (Balarama) and Subhadra (Krishna's sister) at home on the wall (Deities from Melbourne ISKCON temple) I actually lead the Kirtan when Srila Prabhupada installed the Deities in 1974 <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p> Even Srila Prabhupada never liked living in the Gaudiya math Temples; sometimes you can reach more people by branching out on your own if you can become spiritually strong enough to defeat all temptations. Associating with devotees does that. Chanting Hare Krishna with our small group of devotees is fantastic. Printing Prabhupada’s books is a great idea. Anyway I found this interesting comment posted by Kurma dasa Wishing you all a wonderful 2008. My Dear Ann Clifford, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated July 25, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. I am pleased to learn that you have become interested in Krishna Consciousness through living at the Krishna House in Montreal and associating with the devotees there. Your return address is not at this Krishna House, and I hope that you are attending the Kirtanas which are held at the temple on Monday, Wednesday and Friday evenings. The chanting of Hare Krishna Mantra will clear away all of the difficulties that you have mentioned. Actually, as pure spirit soul, there is no difficulty; the cause of all problems is that we are forgetful of the fact that we are part and parcel of Krishna, and we are trying to enjoy the material nature through these material bodies. But the laws of material nature are so stringent that in spite of all attempts for enjoyment, the living entity in the material world must always come to the platform of suffering. This chanting of the Hare Krishna Mantra is especially recommended for chanting in this age of Kali yuga so that any sincere soul who takes to it will very soon regain his memory of being the transcendental loving servitor of the Lord, or Krishna. Regarding your question about why we do not eat meat and yet we eat plant life, the answer is that we do everything as Krishna recommends. Everything we eat is first offered to Lord Krishna, and because Krishna does not eat meat, therefore we also do not eat meat. The fruits, grains, and vegetables which we offer to the Lord are not caused any suffering by our offering them to Krishna. Rather they are greatly benefited because to be offered for the pleasure of the Lord will grant for the living entity within the plant body certain liberation in the near future. Everything that we do in Krishna Consciousness is ultimately beneficial to all living creatures because we are working under the recommendations of the Lord Himself who is the well-wisher of all His part and parcel children. I hope this will sufficiently clear up this matter for you. I hope this will meet you in good health. A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami 2 August 1969

The prayer of a pure devotee of Krishna The following is a poem called "Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krsna" written by Srila Prabhupada on boad the ship Jaladuta, September 13, 1965. "I emphatically say to you, O brothers, you will obtain your good fortune from the Supreme Lord Krsna only when Srimati Radharani becomes pleased with you. Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, who is very dear to Lord Gauranga, the son of mother Saci, is unparalled in his service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. He is that great saintly spiritual master who bestows intense devotion to Krsna at different places throughout the world. By his strong desire, the holy name of Lord Gauranga will spread throughout all the countries of the Western world. In all the cities, towns, and villages on the earth, from all the oceans, seas, rivers, and streams, everyone will chant the holy name of Krsna. As the vast mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu conquers all directions, a flood of transcendental ecstasy will certainly cover the land. When all the sinful, miserable living entities become happy, the Vaisnavas's desire is then fulfilled. Although my Guru Maharaja ordered me to accomplish this mission, I am not worthy or fit to do it. I am very fallen and insignificant. Therefore, O Lord, now I am begging for Your mercy so that I may become worthy, for You are the wisest and most experienced of all. If You bestow Your power, by serving the spiritual master one attains the Absolute Truth -one's life becomes successful. If that service is obtained, then one becomes happy and gets Your association due to good fortune. My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well full of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Narada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service? (Prahlada Maharaja to Lord Nrsimhadeva, Bhag. 7.9.28) O Lord Krsna, You are my eternal companion. Forgetting You, I have suffered the kicks of maya birth after birth. If today the chance to meet You occurs again, then I will surely be able to rejoin You.[Note: Srila Prabhupada suffered several heart attacks during his journey on board the Jaladuta] O dear friend, in Your company I experience great joy once again. In the early morning I will wonder the cowherd pastures and fields. Running and frolicking in the many forests of Vraja, I will roll on the ground in spiritual ecstasy. Oh when will that day be mine? Today that remembrance of You came to me in a very nice way. Because I have a great longing I called to You. I am Your eternal servant and therefore I desire Your association so much. O Lord Krsna, except for You there is no other means of success" A. B. Bhaktivedanta Swami

The following is a poem called "Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krsna" written by Srila Prabhupada on boad the ship Jaladuta, September 13, 1965. The prayer of a pure devotee of Krishna "I emphatically say to you, O brothers, you will obtain your good fortune from the Supreme Lord Krsna only when Srimati Radharani becomes pleased with you. Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, who is very dear to Lord Gauranga, the son of mother Saci, is unparalled in his service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna. He is that great saintly spiritual master who bestows intense devotion to Krsna at different places throughout the world. By his strong desire, the holy name of Lord Gauranga will spread throughout all the countries of the Western world. In all the cities, towns, and villages on the earth, from all the oceans, seas, rivers, and streams, everyone will chant the holy name of Krsna. As the vast mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu conquers all directions, a flood of transcendental ecstasy will certainly cover the land. When all the sinful, miserable living entities become happy, the Vaisnavas's desire is then fulfilled. Although my Guru Maharaja ordered me to accomplish this mission, I am not worthy or fit to do it. I am very fallen and insignificant. Therefore, O Lord, now I am begging for Your mercy so that I may become worthy, for You are the wisest and most experienced of all. If You bestow Your power, by serving the spiritual master one attains the Absolute Truth -one's life becomes successful. If that service is obtained, then one becomes happy and gets Your association due to good fortune. My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well full of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Narada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instructed me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service? (Prahlada Maharaja to Lord Nrsimhadeva, Bhag. 7.9.28) O Lord Krsna, You are my eternal companion. Forgetting You, I have suffered the kicks of maya birth after birth. If today the chance to meet You occurs again, then I will surely be able to rejoin You.[Note: Srila Prabhupada suffered several heart attacks during his journey on board the Jaladuta] O dear friend, in Your company I experience great joy once again. In the early morning I will wonder the cowherd pastures and fields. Running and frolicking in the many forests of Vraja, I will roll on the ground in spiritual ecstasy. Oh when will that day be mine? Today that remembrance of You came to me in a very nice way. Because I have a great longing I called to You. I am Your eternal servant and therefore I desire Your association so much. O Lord Krsna, except for You there is no other means of success" A. B. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Who cares about wordly nonsense, one thing is a fact, ISKCON and the GAUDIYA MATH are NOT Hindu organizations. <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Sarva gattah Vaishnava's just want to leave this material world of birth and death and go back to serving Krishna in Goloka, and on the way tell everyone about Krishna, the original and only cause of all causes. Why worship the demigods like Ganesa for wealth or even Luxmi, Maha-Vishnu and Shiva - Why not worship beautiful Krishna? </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Lord Chaitanya said - "Your constitutional position is that you are pure living soul. This material body can`t be identified with your real self: nor is your mind your real identity, nor your intelligence, nor false ego. Your identity is that of eternal servitor of the Supreme Lord Krishna". Teachings of Lord Chaitanya , Chapter III, page 55

Nice letter and answers all our questions on destiney, free will and predestination. Also the following letter also proves there is no need of philosophical speculation as found on this thread. The following is all that is important and the final conclusion that ghari has nicely explained should be accepted by sarva-gattah, Svarupa, a few others as well as myself as bonafide conclusion from the view point of sadhu, shastra and Guru Srila Prabhupada - "One should not uselessly labor in mental speculation to estimate the Lord's qualities. There is no need of adopting the speculative method or exercising the body to attain mystic yoga perfection. One should simply understand that the distress and happiness of this body are predestined; there is no need to try to avoid the distress of this bodily existence or to attempt to achieve happiness by different types of exercises. The best course is to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead with body, mind and words and always be engaged in His service. Chapter of Krsna, "Prayers Offered by Lord Brahma to Lord Krsna."

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by gHari This is not why Krsna knows all time: "and therefore knows past, present and future". Are we to turn bhakti into a mechanical thing, not nirguna? One might ask: if it's all predestined and mechanical then why does Ksirodakashayi Visnu come along for the ride? Why should I bother doing anything - what's going to happen is going to happen? Why chant? Why remember Krsna? Where is the love? Love is now mechanical. I am a robot. I don't exist. I am Mayavadi. Knowing the future does not mean that the future is predestined. That's just what will happen. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Everything you have said is totally correct. Your not understanding the point Sarva gattah is making and that is Krishna knows everything. Krishna in the form of His Maha-Vishnu expansion, is eternally established as the controller of the material universes in the eternal 'present' where he can view His own material creation of past present and future. In a simple way to explain this, it is like you begin a journey at the starting point of a road, you cannot see what is ahead, you cannot see the curves and corners along the journey however, if you are situated above and look down you can see the entire journey from beginning to end. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> In this similar way, Maha Vishnu sees all of His over all creation of past, present and future. That does not mean the living entities don't have free will, they do, but Maha-Vishnu's amazing creation incorporates all that as well. We are in His material dream; it is not that hard to understand. What ever you choose or desire, you are provided with that vessel He has already mapped out to fulfil that desire. The vast material creation is set in unlimied pathways, NOT the journey of the 'spiritual living entities' that choose to possess those different 'material' vessels and their dimensional pathways found within sub-space (ethereal vessels) and secular space (biological material vessels) existing within billions of universes that make up the mahat-tattva creation moving within the confined realm of past, present and future. <o:p></o:p> Thiest will understand this. You are not a robot, you have free will and can choose any material pathway your desire (or deserve). Your journey as a spirtual entity is not mapped out however the material bodies you choose or deserve are because they are the creation of Maha-Vishnu’s dreams. <o:p></o:p> Remember the mahat tattva is the dream of Maha-Vishnu, our desires, choices and aspirations find their counterfeit bodily destiny that is already part and parcel of His Dream. The choice you have is transmigrating or possessing as many bodies as you desire (and deserve) It is thoses choices, desires and thoughts as a 'spiritual being' that are the founding cause of all material bondage and karma. Karma is greatly misunderstood, it begins on the mental platform in the higher ethereal realms that includes, Satya yuga and to a lessor degree, Treta yuga and lessor again degree in Dvapara yuga - that’s another thread to discus this on. <o:p></o:p> You are not a robot, you have free will and can choose any material pathway your desire (or deserve). Your journey is not mapped out however the material bodies you choose or deserve are because they are the creation of Maha-Vishnu’s dreams.

Srila Prabhupada’s System for the Golden Age. "If the conditioned soul becomes Krishna conscious by the mercy of saintly persons, who voluntarily preach scriptural injunctions and help him become Krishna conscious, he becomes liberated from the clutches of Maya, who voluntarily gives him up." (Cc. Madhya, 20-120). <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> "This is the test by which one can tell whether he is advancing in devotional service. One must be detached from material enjoyment. Such detachment means that Maya has actually given the conditioned soul liberation from illusory enjoyment." (SB 11.2.42 quoted in TLC). <o:p></o:p> We ordinarily understand ‘Maya’ as illusion, but the spiritual master reveals its more confidential meaning as also ‘mercy’. (SB 1.13.25). Thus Srila Prabhupada gave shelter to those who joined by <o:p></o:p> establishing - <o:p></o:p> 1) SAMBANDHA - their relationship as servants of Krishna; <o:p></o:p> 2) ABIDHEYA - their materially conditioned senses engaged in pure devotional service; <o:p></o:p> 3) PRAYOJANA - the resultant transformation of material consciousness into Krishna consciousness, leading them back home back to Godhead. <o:p></o:p> The actual essence of all the esoteric knowledge of the vast body of Vedic literature has been rendered in a simple term by Srila Rupa Goswami as ‘yukta vairagya’. Srila Prabhupada’s system is strictly in that <o:p></o:p> line - "Utility is the Principle". <o:p></o:p> His books teach this as follows: <o:p></o:p> Bhagavad-gita As It Is - yukta vairagya in Upanisadic form. <o:p></o:p> Srimad Bhagavatam - yukta vairagya in Puranic and Vedantic form. <o:p></o:p> Nectar of Devotion - yukta vairagya in Pancaratric form (rules). <o:p></o:p> Caitanya Caritamrta - yukta vairagya in Final Perfection (prema). <o:p></o:p> Sri Caitanya gives paramount importance to five out of sixty-four principles of devotional service: <o:p></o:p> a) Associating with devotees - Sadhu sanga; <o:p></o:p> b) Chanting the Holy Names - Nama kirtana; <o:p></o:p> c) Hearing Srimad Bhagavatam - Bhagavad sravana; <o:p></o:p> d) Living in a Holy Place - Mathura vasa; <o:p></o:p> e) Worshiping the Deity - Sri murtira sraddhaya sevana. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhhupada designed his system for ISKCON based on these principles. In his seven purposes for ISKCON, the first two are Bhagavata sevana; the third is sadhu sanga; the fourth is Nama kirtana; the fifth is Sri murtira sevana; the sixth is Mathura vasa; and the seventh is to preach these five principles to others. In organising these principles, <o:p></o:p> according to the Nectar of Devotion, <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada instituted the system of initiation in ISKCON. The acceptance of the Holy Name from the spiritual mast er is ‘Bhagavata vidhi’ initiation. The second initiation is both Vedic and Pancaratric initiation: (these mantras are namatmika mantras; the actual mantra is Hare Krishna). <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON is the embodiment of these five principles ‘in action’, given out of his causeless mercy. So if one is surrendered to the Founder-Acarya, his instructions and ISKCON, he is primarily qualified to carry on the system of guru-disciple (Parampara), established by Srila Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the Golden Age - <o:p></o:p> ISKCON. <o:p></o:p> JAI SRILA PRABHUPADA! It is not the critic who counts; nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belong to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust, sweat, blood and tears; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again. Who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause. Who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls, who know neither victory nor defeat. This is the difference between those who have experienced the nectar of distributing Srila Prabhupada books and those who have never had the good fortune to disributed those blissful wonderful books”

<CENTER> </CENTER> The Supreme Absolute "Even the greatest philosophical speculators cannot have access to the region of the Lord. It is said in the Upanisads that the Supreme Truth, the Absolute Personality of Godhead, is beyond the range of the thinking power of the greatest philosopher. He is unknowable by great learning or by the greatest brain. He is knowable only by one who has His mercy. Others may go on thinking about Him for years together, yet He is unknowable." Srimad-Bhagavatam 1:8:20 Purport Understanding the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, may be approached in various ways. For example, Absolute Truth may be realized in three features known as para-tattva: impersonal Brahman, localized Paramatma, and Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Lord is impersonal, personal and localized. By His impersonal feature He is all-pervading Brahman, by His localized feature He is present in everyone's heart as the Supreme Soul (Paramatma), and by His ultimate personal feature (Krsna) He is the object of transcendental loving service by His fortunate associates, the pure devotees. The Supreme Being's manifest form is explained in the Vedas as sat - cit - ananda vigraha , "an embodiment ( vigraha ) of absolute eternity ( sat ), absolute cognizance ( cit ), and absolute bliss ( ananda )." Impersonal Brahman realization is the realization of His sat (being) feature. Paramatma realization is the realization of cit (eternal knowledge). But realization of the Personality of Godhead, Krsna, is realization of all the transcendental features: sat , cit and ananda (being, knowledge, bliss) in complete vigraha (form). The Absolute Personality may also be understood as the perfect person who has manifold energies, out of which the internal, external and marginal energies are primary. The spiritual world is the manifestation of the Lord's internal potency. By expanding his internal energies, He manifests as so many personalities, and exchanges or accepts transcendental loving service from them in the spiritual world. The material world is the manifestation of His external potency. The living entities are manifestations of His marginal potency, and by their own choice they can live in either the transcendental or material worlds. While these philosophical approaches to understanding the Absolute may be taken, the Absolute Personality is beyond the range of philosophical thinking, as stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam. He is knowable only by one who has His mercy. In other words, we must love the Lord before we can fully know him. This approach was examplified by the gopis of Vrindaban. Without understanding the philosophy of the Absolute, they simply loved Krsna without a motive for material or spiritual gain. That was all. They were not educated Vedantists, but they learned to love Krsna. That was their qualification. They did not know, or even care to know, whether or not Krsna is God. They simply loved Krsna without any identification, thereby enjoying the topmost level of approach to Absolute Truth. We, on the other hand, may be worshiping God because we are impressed that He is the Supreme Lord. While we may be a little inclined to serve God under this condition, the Gopis loved Krsna unconditionally. They came to know the Absolute simply by virtue of their love. While we may try to understand that Krsna is the source of everything, knowing the Absolute Truth also requires us to understand how Krsna's manifested energies impact our daily, personal lives. The Lord, the living entities, the material nature, time and karma are all working together, and the relationship of these five basic truths is described in Bhagavad-gita. The individual living entities, by their free will and desire nature, suffer from material conditioning. When at last our conditioned desires are channeled towards love of God through devotional service, our understanding of the Absolute becomes pure and complete. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Excerpted from text and purport of HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. THE MOUSE AND THE GITA There is a story about a guru who had a brahmacari disciple. He ordered the brahmacari that he should perform Bhakti by reading Gita every day. So he sat in a cave, reading the Bhagavad-gita. But there was a small mouse who came to nibble at the Gita, when it was not being read. He became tired of scaring the mouse away, so he thought, "I need to get a cat to take care of the mouse." So he got a cat. The cat kept away the mouse, but it started making sounds because it was hungry. So he had to feed the cat. Then he thought, "I need a cow in order to feed the cat milk." He had to take care of the cow. Gradually he started giving less and less time for his Gita reading. Since he had to give the cow so much attention, he thought, "I need someone to take care of the cow," and he hired a man. The man took care of the cow, but he found that he had to have someone to watch the man, otherwise he was not doing his work properly. He thought, "This is becoming a little complicated. I have to get married, then the wife will watch over the man who is taking care of the cow, who is feeding the milk to the cat, to keep away the mouse." He got married, but his wife wanted certain things. So there were children, and he had to get some money. He started some business enterprise and brought some land. One day, the guru came back to see his disciple. He said, "What happened? I ordered you to read Gita, but I see you have got wife, children, family, business, workers and so many things. You have forgotten the Gita? Tell me what happened." He replied, "Gurudeva, I am simply doing all this in the service of the Gita. In order to read the Gita, I h ad to do all this. This is all Gita-samsara." MORAL: We have to be careful not to perform bhakti for some other objective, that is not pure bhakti. THE THREE SAGES Once there were three sages, and these sages were discussing what is the best age to be delivered from material existence. One said, "I propose that Satya-yuga is the best age, because it is the golden age, the age of enlightenment. Just by a few hundred thousand years of meditation one can go back to Vaikuntha. That is my proposition." The next sage said, "No, Treta-yuga is the age. We can do agnihotra, and just by offering grains and ghee into the fire, distributing gold to the brahmins, by this simple process we can get moksa and leave this world." The third sage said, "Excuse me, but Dvapara-yuga is without a doubt the best age, because Krsna Bhagavan Himself is coming. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata. He comes in His original form and those who take birth in that Yuga can get the opportunity of the Lord's personal association. So back and forth they were arguing, Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Satya, Treta, Dvapara. But there's four ages, Satya-yuga, Treta-yuga, Dvapara-yuga and Kali-yuga. However, these sages would not even say the name of Kali, because it's so inauspicious. What to speak of discussing it's ill effects, they wouldn't even mention the name. So after many years of discussion they came to no conclusion. So they said, "Well, let us go to Srila Vyasadeva, the greatest of all sages. He lives in the Himalayas, so lets go there and get his opinion." So they went to Badrikashrama, and when they arrived there Vyasadeva was taking bath in a tank. "O great sage," the rishis addressed him, "Of Satya, Treta and Dvapara, what is the best age for making spiritual advancement?" But he wouldn't come out of the water. They pleaded and pleaded, and then out he came and he spoke, "Satyam satyam param satyam, kaler dosa-nidhe rajann asti hy eko mahan-guna \ kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sangah param vrajet." And then splash, back under the water he went. The sages asked each other, "Did you hear that?No," one replied, "I blocked my ears as soon as I heard the name of Kali.Ask him again," the third one said. "O great Srila Vyasadeva, could you please repeat yourself?" So out he came again, "Satyam satyam param satyam, kaler dosa-nidhe rajann..." And then he explained the verse, "The highest truth, the truth of all truths, is that although this Kali-yuga is an ocean of faults, there is still one good quality about this age. Simply by chanting the Hare Krsna mahamantra, one can become free from material bondage and be promoted to the transcendental kingdom."

Interesting reading, these are the hard facts that no-one can dispute <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha Srila Prabhupada “Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that I have nothing to do with this material world and that I am simply Krishna’s servant.- Eternal servant., we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this situation” lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Vigraha A good point that realist has made is all of us are dream-avardis in the material world And your answer is when the impersonalist yogi are able to shake off his material biological form and his underlining ethereal or subtle body, the nitya-baddha conscious aspect of ones marginal identity vibrates inactively as a part and parcel of the bright living impersonal Brahmajyoti. That particular light you are taling about is the energy or s'akti of the jiva-tattva. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> These are the facts, the impersonalist yogi mentioned above is not a devotee and does not recognize Paramatma accompanying him, he only sees himself as one with everything and does not even recognize his own individuality, he considers himself as part of one all pervasive life force and he sees that light emanating from himself as the oneness that flows through all living things and makes up the impersonal clear light or Brahmajyoti. Not only does the impersonalist yogi not believe in his nitya-siddha body, but he also does not believe in a nitya-baddha consciousness. To them there is only one consciousness flowering through all existence, all bodily vessels etc.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Devotees call this Mayavardi philosophy

You put your foot in this one, listen to one of your own Guru's!! “Srila Narayana Maharaja was once asked by one of his temple presidents whether or not gay devotees should be allowed to live in his centers. He replied that everyone was welcome to join his temples as long as they followed the rules and regulations. He added that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada wanted all types of people to join Lord Caitanya’s movement, and this was also his desire. One day I went to visit Srila Narayana Maharaja up on the North Shore in Hawaii. I wanted to have darsana with him and ask some important questions. One of the things I desired to discuss with him was the topic of third-gender devotees, although I must admit I was very shy and hesitant to bring up the issue. I just wasn’t sure what his understanding was, or how he would react. While Srila Narayana Maharaja was sitting outside on the porch, I entered the house and dressed the large Radha-Krsna Deities residing there in a new red and gold outfit I had just sewn for Them as an offering. Srila Gurudeva then came inside and was very pleased to see Thakurji in the new outfit. We sat down for darsana. A friend of mine, who was also gay and had been involved in Krsna consciousness for a long time, first asked some questions about initiation. Srila Gurudeva was very kind with him as he always is with every guest. Then I asked my questions. When it came time to bring up the third gender, I was very nervous but managed to blurt out the first question. I mentioned to him about the pastime in which Lord Caitanya, as a baby, had been blessed by third-gender devotees and asked him where this pastime could be found in scripture. I was thinking that perhaps he wouldn’t be familiar with the pastime or with the third gender in general. But he answered very confidently and was obviously completely familiar with both issues. ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘This pastime can be found in the Caitanya-bhagavata.’ Then I asked: ‘Srila Gurudeva, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada wanted everyone to come to his temples, but nowadays some do not accept third-gender devotees.’ His eyes immediately lit up and he said very strongly, ‘ They are rejecting so many people. What to speak of third-gender, they are rejecting practically everyone. But we are accepting those who have been rejected. You can tell anyone to come here and we will accept them.’ Then I asked, ‘But Gurudeva, why is this happening?’ He immediately interjected slowly, but firmly: ‘Because they are rascals! That’s all. Bring anyone you meet here to me. I will accept.’ Then I told Gurudeva that I already knew some nice third-gender devotees who were rejected by ISKCON temples but accepted at his centers. Brajanatha Prabhu (Srila Gurudeva’s secretary) confirmed this. Srila Gurudeva reiterated, ‘Yes, bring them here. We will accept everyone.’ “Srila Narayana Maharaja’s answers to my questions were more than satisfying. His mood of all-inclusiveness was made crystal clear to both my friend and I. Not only was it important to him that everyone is welcome in Krsna consciousness, including the third gender, but—even more so—it was a source of disgust and anger if anyone was being rejected.” by Amara dasa, January 30, 2005)

I CHANGED REALISTS LAST PARAGRAPH Anyway, the word dream-avardi refers to everyone in the material world, not only are we dreaming in the material world, but we are also ghosts in the material world. In fact if someone has an horrific death, they do not even know they are dead and their mind creates a further illusion on top of this present dreaming illusion that they also think is real and go on living their life as they imagined it would be. iT IS AMAZING HOW THE DREAM WORLD OF MATERIAL CREATION UNFOLDS

Settle down, are you not having a good day in Florida?

Then follow whole heatedly and chant Hare Krishna. Realist has a problem with 'ISKCON NUTJOBS' as you call them, but in the end we ALL have no one to blame except ourselves. It's your dream.

The impersonalist yogi is only in that imaginary position dreaming in a dreamless state in the impersonal Brahmajyoti due to his restricted nitya-baddha consciousness. He had long, long ago (probably almost an eternity), forgotten completely who he really is as an eternal nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna. Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, (NITYA-BADDHA) but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated (NITYA-SIDDHA) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it only appears that we are eternally conditioned (NITYA-BADDHA)’ Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968, Srila Prabhupada “This is confirmed in all Vedic literature. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. So, as we are also persons, individual living beings, we are persons, we have got our individuality, we are all individual, similarly the Supreme Truth, the Supreme Absolute, He is also, at the ultimate issue He is a person. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features like sat, cit, and ananda, in complete vigraha. Gitopanisad by Srila Prabhupada Part Two Srila Prabhupada “Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that I have nothing to do with this material world and that I am simply Krishna’s servant.- Eternal servant., we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this situation” lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.9.1

I thought you never liked Narayana Maharaj? Any, instead of us criticizing ISKCON, why not start your own program of preaching, if you don’t have trust in present day ISKCON. Remember, even Srila Prabhupada never liked staying in the Gaudiya math. You don’t have to be a member of the present version of ISKCON to be a devotee Krishna if you don’t trust their insight and spiritual realizations. But Srila Prabhupada always said books are the basis,

A good point that realist has made is all of us are dream-avardis in the material world And your answer is when the impersonalist yogi are able to shake off his material biological form and his underlining ethereal or subtle body, the nitya-baddha conscious aspect of ones marginal identity vibrates inactively as a part and parcel of the bright living impersonal Brahmajyoti. That particular light you are taling about is the energy or s'akti of the jiva-tattva.

Excuse me my dear friend but realist is right Srila Prabhupada has said about book distribution: “The word kriyasu, meaning “by manual labor” or “by work,” is important in this verse. One should engage in practical service to the Lord. In our Krsna consciousness movement, all our activities are concentrated upon distributing Krsna literature. This is very important. One may approach any person and induce him to read Krsna literature so that in the future he also may become a devotee. Such activities are recommended in this verse. Such activities will always remind the devotees of the Lord’s lotus feet. By fully concentrating on distributing books for Krsna, one is fully absorbed in Krsna. This is samadhi.” (Bhag.10.2.37)

Srila Prabhupada - “Actually we are all ghosts, ...spirits" the only difference being that we have a gross body made of mucus, bile and air, and disembodied spirits have only subtle-ethereal a body made of mind, intelligence and false-ego”. Morning walk in Bombay, India, April 12th 1974 Srila Prabhupada. "........And you have not seen so many things. Does it mean that does not exist? You are researching. You have not seen. As a scientist.........." Indian man. "I have heard lots of ghost stories, but......." Srila Prabhupada. "No, No it is not stories. We are hearing from Bhagavata, it is authority. We are not hearing the stories of third class man. We are hearing form Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva............" Indian man. " But you see, up till now, in my long life of eighty years........." Srila Prabhupada, "No, No you have not so many experiences. That does not mean these things do not exist. Your experience is not all in all. Don't think like that. So these are existing actually. That is the defect, that you do not accept the authorities. That is the defect. Here Vyasadeva is describing, who is called Vyasadeva, full of all knowledge, and the Bhagavata is a mature experience. We are hearing from him. Why do you not believe? I may not have experience. This ghost means the living entity is subtle life without any material body. That is ghost. When one is very sinful, he does not get the material body. He lives in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. That is ghostly life. And they display. Because they have no body, one cannot see, but they display so many mischief's. That is ghostly life. Seeing or not seeing doesn't matter. Therefore it is enjoined in the Vedanta Sutra, shastra caksusa (see through the bona fide scriptures)." Indian man. "But it should be proved." Srila Prabhupada. "It is true because it is spoken by Vyasadeva. How you say it is false? You cannot say that. That is blasphemy." Indian man. "In olden days there used to be the ghosts and all these things, but now that is gradually............" Srila Prabhupada. "But gradually..........! That does not mean you have improved very much. Because you do not believe in ghost........................!" Morning walk in Bombay, India, April 12th 1974