Bishadi

Since Christians are forbidden to believe in a soul via <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com just a crack up coming from a person suggesting cows are pure (life giving) and that </FONT></FONT><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is blue</P><P></P><P>Thanx …… something to giggle about</P><P></P><P></P><P>

Because the sciences follow the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> law of thermo as if it was pure. Almost like a religious person following their book as if pure. Each have a bias. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana></P><P> </P><P> WHY?</FONT></FONT></P><P></P><P>Because neither have the truth themselves and perhaps when the practitioners awaken; they will combine being fair to each but allowing reality to reveal the absolute. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana></P><P> </P><P> The soul is the energy (light) holding each ‘chemical’ together. </FONT></FONT></P><P></P><P>i.e… a dead person has all the chemicals and mass, but the ‘life’ left the building. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana></P><P> </P><P> life is purposed to continue.</FONT></FONT></P><P></P><P>That one truth ruins entropy and the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> law. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana></P><P> </P><P> Want? </FONT></FONT></P><P></P><P>That is a conscious perspective as the critter is instinctive; it lives by the ‘light’ in all actions; to continue.</P><P></P><P>Consciousness is how to experience choice. It is how to experience life in the form of an isolated ‘I’…. </P><P></P><P>The instinct is always ‘purposed to continue’ but with choice, the purpose is often clouded by the learned knowledge of mind. </P><P></P><P>Hence the divisions of mankind and why any of us are even articulating; we can experience and comprehend what has passed and what comes before and after the event. </P><P><FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana></P><P> because many never really know what life is.</P><P> </P><P></FONT></FONT></P><P></P><P>Or the best is to trust you inner most, and allow the knowledge to be decided with absolute integrity.</P><P></P><P>All of the religions share a day will come when each Will understanding; have faith in all that is (God) that the truth will be revealed and do what is good follow the instinct of life “to continue”</P><P> </P><P> </P><P> </P><P></P><P><FONT face=' alt='P><P><FONT face='>CCC….. the collective conscious begets the beginning but that hasn’t happened yet; still learning. Read the works from the material (<st1:country-region><st1:place>peru</st1:place></st1:country-region>) you presented on this site; it’s all there

Since Christians are forbidden to believe in a soul via ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com just a crack up coming from a person representing cows are holy (life giving) and that </FONT><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> is blue</P><P></P><P>Thanx …… for another 'something' to giggle about</P><P></P><P></P><P>

Because the sciences follow the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> law of thermo as if it was pure. Almost like a religious person following their book as if pure. Each have a pre-existing bias. <FONT color=black></P><P> </P><P> And can you honestly represent ............WHY?</P><P> </P><P>perhaps from this opinion:</P><P></FONT> </P><P></P><P>Because neither have the truth themselves and perhaps when the practitioners awaken; they will combine being fair to each but allowing reality to reveal the absolute. <FONT color=black></P><P> </P><P> The soul is the energy (light) holding each ‘chemical’ together. </P><P></FONT> </P><P></P><P>i.e… a dead person has all the chemicals and mass, but the ‘life’ left the building. <FONT color=black></P><P> </P><P> Answer: life is 'purposed to continue'. </P><P></FONT> </P><P></P><P>That pure 'truth' discredits entropy and the 2<SUP>nd</SUP> law. <FONT color=black></P><P> </P><P> Want? </FONT></P><P></P><P>That is a conscious perspective as the critter is instinctive; it lives by the ‘light’ in all actions; to continue.</P><P></P><P>Consciousness is how to experience choice. It is how to experience life in the form of an isolated ‘I’…. </P><P></P><P>The instinct is always ‘purposed to continue’ but with choice, the purpose is often clouded by the learned knowledge of mind. </P><P></P><P>Hence the divisions of mankind and why any of us are even articulating; we can experience and comprehend what has passed and what comes 'before and after' the event. We can use consciousness to experience; what is, was and will be, simply of thought.</P><P> </P><P>It is what allows 'ideas' or even 'words' to exist. We (mankind) created them; consciously. </P><P> </P><P><FONT color=black></P><P> because many never really know what life is.</P><P> </P><P>the mind of ideas often clouds the truth of the experience</P><P> </P><P></FONT></P><P></P><P>Or the best is to trust you inner most, and allow the knowledge to be decided (observed) with absolute integrity.</P><P> </P><P></P><P>All of the religions share a day will come when each Will understanding; have faith in all that is (God) that the truth will be revealed.</P><P> </P><P>Have faith in God and yourself and not allow the words of man to isolate your mind from reality (God)</P><P> </P><P> </P><P><FONT face=' alt='P><P><FONT face='>CCC….. the collective conscious begets the beginning but that hasn’t happened yet; still learning. Read the works from the material (<st1:country-region><st1:place>peru</st1:place></st1:country-region>) you presented on this site; it’s all there in print

 

 

I have heard a lot of discussions about this issue and it seems that the soul has a spiritual origin i.e. the soul has a spiritual creation beyond space and time of this material world and for this it is eternal and trascendental.

Light is the spirit and mass the material (corporeal). The combination of all three is existence itself. The total or God himself; that which all is created from.

Life is the light upon mass.

And when a life imposes an action upon existence no matter during which time, that wake moves through in time. So the life and actions do exists and that karma is what each impose by choice; they live in what they do.

And to know light is the energy upon mass in time, then all time and mass is entangled to life.

These things are true

Srila Prabhupada was surely right when he said above some 30 years ago. However, Prabhupada also expected that people would walk the talk and actually to elaborate what is being said.

 

For example a professor presents the facts about the uselessness of combustion engines in numbers. His students don't only repeat what they heard from their teacher but also work on an implementation.

 

In due course they develop an alternative for combustion engines and their idea is so perfect that the whole world adopts it.

Then this question is not asked anymore, was the professor right?

His teachings were transformed into a practical solution what people use in their daily life.

 

Somehow this did not happen yet with Prabhupada's teachings. Hardly any of his concepts were implemented in large scale.

 

Therefore people still have to ask this question, is Prabhupada right?

yet look what the internal combustion engine has done to the environment as well the evolving knowledge shares that exchanging energy for motion is cleaner such as fuel cells and hydrogen usage

soon to make the old obsolete

perhaps a new form of thinking is progressing and the old best catch up or go out of business (perhaps that is why GM is failing)

"Each particle that awakens contributes in service to the whole."

Peace

each now becomes of the “blank” Conscious. Then who needs a leader to tell them how to think?

Please allow me to stand on a rock, for a moment.

That knowledge offers each from the first days of learning as a child what life is and how their choices become their life.

Each task of responsibility is the duty each pursues. The doctor plays doctor, the farmer, farms, the engineer for community infrastructure represents people and that responsibility has much responsibility to the people. (representing us… ‘we the people’) No bending from Good and Bad can exists as each choice imposes the same to more than just the ‘I’ of the their self.

Those responsibilities as well the judgmental foundation are what the laws of nature perfect and since nature is known equally to all mankind, then the rules that exist within the ‘ever present’ nature, validates the mind with understanding. In which to share the truth of how life exists in nature pure to nature enables each to comprehend the equality of all mankind. (all barriers fall)

i.e… many of world’s opinions are fair yet the truth only operates ONE way and it starts with understanding; the light of life. (not theologically but literally in and of nature (of existence itself)

The perfect “blank” Conscious, is for each to be equally aware of life.

Not really a political type but the comments were interesting.

It is natural to not vote when you do not like any the candidates.

Be honest, that will set the tone quite nicely.

To say Krishna Conscious is proper is not bad when observing the intent of the movement; equality, compassion and the ever seeking of the ‘absolute truth.’ (many have other opinions of that too)

So being in ‘blank’ Conscious no matter what the name, has merit.

Yet when issues of such like abortion come to the front, then to share that a person is literally killing themselves, their family lineage and a portion of God himself, then the issue becomes moot. As if each understood what ‘life’ is exactly, then the issues of such magnitude would not even become a question.

Then to follow the path of light, being able to comprehend life, then the rules of good and bad become known and can be observed with responsibility. Such that to understand that the very choices and life that each choice enables, is the karma or ever lasting life upon leaving the physical; then each now becomes of the “blank” Conscious. Then who needs a leader to tell them how to think?

 

 

tadejati tannaijati taddure tadvantike |

tadantarasya sarvasya tadu sarvasya bahyatah

5

 

 

tad = tasmat = from him; ejati = bibheti = tremble (in awe or stupefaction); tat = He, Himself; na = (does) not; dure = far off; tadu = tadeva = He alone; antike = near, close by; antah = within, inside of; asya = of this; sarvasya = of all; bahyatah = outside of.

 

 

He causes all to tremble or quake in fear of Him, but He Himself fears none (for being independent); He is very far off (He exists even at infinite distances), and He is also very close by (because He is omnipresent); He is within everyone and everything, and also outside everyone and everything (His presence is all-pervasive).

 

 

It has been said that Hari is all-pervasive, the controller of all, and all-powerful. Now, the use of knowing this is clarified

 

yastu sarvani bhutanyatmanyevanupasyati |

sarvabhutesu catmanam tato na vijugupsate

6

 

yah = (he) who; tu = but, indeed; sarvani = all; bhutani = beings, creatures, objects, atmani = in the Supreme Being; eva = only; anupasyati = excellently beholds, clearly understands; sarva bhutesu = in all beings; ca = and; atmanam = the Lord, the Ruler of the innermost self; tatah = thus, therefore, by reason of; na = (does) not; vijugupsate = wish to hide or seek concealment.

 

 

One who sees all animate and inanimate nature in the Supreme (for He exists outside them and is their support), and also sees the Supreme in all of them (for He exists in them, and is their controller from within), by this reason, he becomes free of fear and does not ever need to seek concealment.

 

 

One who perceives Sri Hari as being the sole independent entity and the motivator of all, has no fear of anyone, since he knows that all power belongs to the Lord only, not to any other. Verse 5 has already expressed the idea that the Supreme is omnipresent; the repetition of the same notion here is for the purpose of explaining the significance of such omnipresence

(why it is important to understand it).

The same notion is further clarified

 

yasminsarvani bhutanyatmaivabhudvijanatah |

tatra ko mohah kah soka ekatvamanupasyatah

7

 

yasmin = in whom; sarvani = all; bhutani = beings [exist], the word tisthanti being implied here; atma = the Supreme Being; eva = only; abhut = present, exists within; vijanatah = who understands this very well (the prefix vi signifying visesena, ``specially'' is added to janatah, ``who knows,'' the purport being that the Lord is understood as special as compared with the individual, or that He is very well understood); tatra = in that person; kah = what; mohah = delusion; sokah = sorrow; ekatvam = identity (of the Lord existing in any one being and Him existing in all others); anupasyatah = perceives well.

 

For one who clearly understands that all beings exist in the Supreme, and that He exists within all of them (as their controller), and who thus sees the unity of the Lord as existing (without change) everywhere, what could possibly cause delusion, or sorrow?

any questions

let's assist with the ability for each to read from themselves

 

asurya nama te loka andhena tamasa'vrtah |

tamste pretyabhigacchanti ye ke catmahano janah

 

 

 

asurya = of great misery, or belonging to asura-s (demons); nama = niscitametat = thus is certain; te = they, those; loka = worlds; andhena tamasa = nibidandhakarena = of relentless, blinding darkness; avrtah = covered with, enveloped by; tan = (to) them; pretya = upon death; abhigacchanti = fall into, are trapped into; ye ke = those who; atmahanah = yathavad atmajñanamajñatva vaiparityena janantah = having failed to know the (Parama-) Atma correctly, persist in false knowledge only; janah = persons.

 

Meaning:

 

 

The worlds of eternal misery, covered with unremitting darkness, indeed, do they fall into without recourse, they who, having failed to realize the truth about the Lord (in spite of opportunity), persist in false knowledge.

The question now becomes, what is this truth about the Isa that should be realized? The next verse therefore states the character of the Lord

 

anejadekam manaso javiyo nainaddeva apnuvanpurvamarsat |

taddhavato'nyanatyeti tisthattasminnapo matarisva dadhati

4

 

anejat = not trembling, free of all fear; ekam = one, alone, the primary; manasah = (than) the mind; javiyah = swifter than; na = not; enat = it, this one; devah = the deities headed by Brahma; apnuvat = sakalyena vyajanan = comprehend or know fully; purvam = from before, since beginningless time; arsat = knowing (freely and from His own nature); tad = that [brahman]; dhavatah = those running, moving fast; anyan = others; atyeti = surpasses, overtakes; tisthat = rests, exists, remains; tasmin = in Him, in that Hari; apah = karmani = actions; Matarisva = Mukhya Prana; dadhati = samarpayati = dedicates, offers.

 

(The Supreme is) completely free of fear, for being the primary Being; He is swifter than the mind, and cannot be fully comprehended (even) by the deities (headed by Brahma), while He knows all by His own nature, from beginningless time; though unchanging, staying as-is, He effortlessly overtakes all, no matter how they may run; to that Lord, Mukhya Prana dedicates all the actions performed by all creatures.

 

 

Since you specifically asked for Vaishnava opinions in your OP, I was checking myself from posting. But since you have not received anything satisfactory so far, here is my take. If you are looking for Vaishnava responses only, then skip my response.

 

 

And I am afraid that is all you are gonna get. One or more cliched copouts such as the below. It is surprising how many people are happy enough to accept one of these lines and stop their entire line of questioning.

 

1. We cannot understand his plan.

2. We should not ask such questions.

3. We should have faith.

4. We are here to learn*

5. You must be having an ulterior motive.

6. You are a Mayavadi in disguise.

* This one is funny. What are we learning?

What is the starving infant in Africa learning?

The fact is, there is no answer to your question. A compassionate God would not create carnivorous animals.

Logic and spirituality do not go together.

ie.... What did Srila do for much of his life? HE gave of himself for knowledge to progress.

Spirituality requires the adherent to dismiss logic, stop thinking and just follow.

Simply suggesting don't ask questions and just believe what you are told has got to be the stupidest thing any human alive could ever represent; blatantly put.

and the fact is that's not gonna happen.... see the poster 'alwayslearning' and the majority of the children on this earth.

It is their world now and the complacent might as well roll over and bury yourself

Bishadi, I'd like to discuss ideas, not fall onto petty condescensions.

 

My conception of what God must be in order to qualify as such is simply this: the Controller of all things. This does not make God a seperate entity sitting on a throne, but an extremely intimate and direct entity.

 

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not trying to discount you; so let's be clear.... anyone 'alwayslearning'

i am your servant

The attitude you express does not often sound like the Bhakta Krishna describes as being free from pride, ego and compassionate towards all beings.

No religion; absolute truth!

meaning the religions will be over before i am done

This is Christian elitism.

A mother has influence over her child, therefore she uses it to protect the child from pain. God's influence is TOTAL, meaning that He controls environment (spiritual and physical), beings (spiritual and physical) and actions (spiritual and physical). Even if you argue that the third, actions, are independent, He still has to control the first two to be God. And controlling the first two would be sufficient to remove any possibility of suffering.

Control is a percieved of our species.

but that 'total' is God himself. i.e..... all mass, all energy, all time; ONE; the total.....

that math to share that in a single script is the name of God.

We exist within what could be considered the BODY of God.

No dude on a thrown. NO isolation from existence.

What learning is performing is the combining of the entangled existence becoming aware of itself.

We as consciousness are Him experiencing Life!

My intention is not to insult anyone's beliefs. This is a problem of religious elitism. I am going through a legitimate spiritual crisis, and I'm being responded to with condescension.

not insulting me

and likewise the majority on the globe is having the same issue

hence; the last pages are being written

please, continue.....

I don't have an inner bias, Bishadi. I want to solve this obvious contradiction to become closer with God.

then define God in your words (opinion) to level the playing field

I am being reacted to negatively on this forum because I am using intellect and logic and simply not relying on blind faith.

Please just tell me why Krishna would not stop of from suffering

You're applying your human rationale to excuse the truth of reality.

Seems calling parent who allows the child to put the hand into the fire and watch, is human rational. Meaning if God was on a thrown omnipotent and isolated looking down on us all, then he would be that parent.

When to comprehend the literal in physical experience than human rational is left to the side with opinions and truth stands all by itself.

The truth of reality is that if I came up to you and stabbed a knife through your foot, you would hop around howling in pain while I discussed the finer philosophical aspects of time.

 

And Krishna could, as omnipotent, have immediately stopped me from hurting you.

perhaps the lesson was to stay away from the selfish with knives, perhaps that is where the swastika on the bottom of the foot comes from; you know to be all lotus footed leaving the foot print of where i have been

Why do we have to learn?

'alwayslearning'

Omnipotence means ALL-POWERFUL,

God can simply MAKE us wise from the beginning.

Point is, God is all that is, so in a sense to know all that is, then we are preprogramed.

 

Human suffering is the most fundamental experience of human life, from which we develop spirituality.

Learning.

OK, if a parent is watching a child stick his/her hand into a fire, that parent will prevent the child from being burned, no matter how much the parent may think, "Oh, if she gets burned, she'll learn her lesson." It would be sociopathic and sick for the parent to just sit back and watch.

 

Krishna is like our parent, except He's omnipotent (otherwise He couldn't be God). He's ALWAYS watching, He ALWAYS has the ability at any moment to intervene and stop our suffering.

 

But He doesn't.

 

You continue to answer my question from the perspective of why we're suffering. That's not exactly what I'm asking.

 

I'm asking why God is willing us to suffer when He has the ability to stop it at any moment.

you answered your own question above or at least stated the answer to the flawed logic you present..... One minute a parent would have to be sociopathic, the next we see it (per se suffering) and the god-idea of krisna has the power to stop it and doesn't

something told me there was an inner bias to your question

this thread was not to combine knowledge and entice thinking but a preprogramed, predetermination is being used to work on folks to pigeon hole the answer you want

Hello all,

 

I would like to hear the general Vaisnava perspective regarding suffering, with scriptural references, if possible. I'd like to know the opinions of Vaisnavas who are a part of ISKCON or Gaudiya Math as well as those outside of it.

 

1. Does suffering happen? Or is it an illusion? What is the explanation for the experience of the feeling or sensation of suffering amongst sentient beings in existence?

 

2. Would Krishna allow us to suffer in order for us to not be aversed to Him (so that we would cease suffering and live in Reality (in love for Him or in not-aversion, surrender to Him)), even if it is not truly Reality to suffer, would He allow us to sense suffering?

 

3. With Krishna's omnipotence, can He create an indestructible object? Omnipotence would require that ability, yet not allow for any object to be outside of His ability to destroy. Is omnipotence, therefore, even a possibility?

that form of logic requires comprehension of entanglement in the sense that the beginning is entangled to the future; for example; the collective conscious begets the beginning but that hasn't happened yet.

For a simple sence of logic to the reasoning; suffering is to learn; so it is the process of education. (evolution of knowledge)

Like a child going to school 'suffering' to comprehend life but life in total is the process of existence.

Undoubtedly you are a very philosophical well educated person, what country are you from and what is your opinion of the Srimad Bhagavatam?

the works of a contributer conveying the knowledge available at the time

philosophical works; shared in compassion for tomorrow.

That same opinion could be used for Genesis or Principia to Tantric or Quran.

Honoring the works from each compassionate and giving contribution as prepare from each flavor (of mankind) is how to realize the absolute.

That combining of knowledge is what we as a species do.

ie.... what did Srila do? Combine knowledge for the next generations to understand a little more than the previous.

Darwin did the same thing!

It is the humbly committed that learn to appreciate each; and say thank you, often!

first the idea of pinnning me down in a label is foolish (like a scoundrel, rude and corrupt)

Imagine if i was always on the label path, you would have a bulls eye on your forehead.

Do you believe in individual souls (PERSONALISM)

are you suggesting that within our body there is a little floaty, that has all of its memories wrapped up within and the little floaty goes from body to body over time, thinking, remembering all kind of floaty-like.....?

is that your idea of a soul?

It's all untrue. Memories are affixed to the body. See alzheimers; they meeting new people at most every moment.

or do you believe 'consciousnesss' is all pervading flowing through all bodily vessels (IMPERSONALISM) experiencing different aspects of itself within those vessels divided by time, space and bodily containment?? In other words, you are me and I am you seperated by time and space

in mind we are separate in space and time. That is what our experience to life is consciously speaking of course.

Reality shares we are all a part of the 'Alpha and Omega" in the sense; the beginning and ending, all of existence as a single; the total/God.

From the spec of dusts to the total of all existence; that is Him at Once!

In consciousness we become aware of that little point in time and space, yet related and of the total; in a sense we are Him experiencing life!

All of us.

Now to comprehend the 'spirit' think of your wake, your splash on existence. Each breath you take and exhale; that energy you impose to existence is your spirit. That is why Karma exists. What you do where you live.

any questions?

If you can, you'd be one out of many thousands among men

who might endeavor the mysteries of Truth--for even those who have achieved the mysteries of Truth, hardly one knows truth that is absolute.

the difference is that the absolute does not conflict with nature, mother earth, all that is --------- GOD!

Hence to submit to 'all that is' then the humility of unknowing is where to begin.

That beginning was from the fathers many years back, and that life (spirit) is was has lived within the contributers throughout time. The 'true' commit themselves to the pursuit removing all self preservation, all preconceptions, all needs of things, for the pursuit of that which is true.

That is why from each period often new forms of thinking unfold. For example from Tantric to the Krishna movement (both within Hinduism)

As well from Ptolomy to Newtonian, to the Copenhagan Interpretations.

Each flavor of knowledge has evolved based on the commitment of people and the change usually starts from a person; an individual devoted to the seeking of knowledge and truth over the acceptance of beliefs and accepted paradigm.

you just so happen to be barking at the fool who combined the branches of knowledge and the only reason i still seek and learn and take the abuse from the fool (scoundrel) is the duty is more important than anything and the humility to pursue is sort of like a 'family tradition.'

That life is within and although the face may not look as the pictures had painted, be certain the truth lives and a whole new creation is about to unfold.

Srila was a good man and i have always honored the sect but tell the corrupt, the isolating monkeys; kalki walks!

The Mayavadis see EVERYTHING as illusion, I am u, you are me and we are all together as ONE consciosness.

 

In this way claim to be God

the life of all that is (true understanding in science, math and religion is that 'light' is the life of all mass and light shared between mass is entangled, thereby all that exists is entangled to the total/God)

It is how consciousness exists within the body of physical forms; the light!

on the other hand, see every living being as as individual identity, every soul or jiva as an eternal individual and Krishna as the Supreme Individual.

Everything in NOT an illusion, but rather, a REAL creation of

In other words the material creation is also very REAL but is temporary

In the Spiritual Sky,

The material bodies may only be slight in time, but the energy of the conscious and what can be imposed to the material by choice is alive and continues

so as home to the light of consciousness during our period of choice, what we do during this period is what represents the individuals we call ourselves

to be known as good in the material we contribute while with choice as the eternal spirit lives within all that is imposed; such that time shares the good live forever while the adverse eventually become extinct. (or in current logic; equillibriate to base constituents)

"I am u, you are me and we are together as ONE. "

there is a term often noticed about good sustenance such as the words above

called

Nectar

 

Actually, there is happyness in the mateial world, but it's only temporary.

Its that endless eternal happyness with Krishna, in our svarupa form, that we are trying to awaken and regain beyond the confines of this troublesome material body

the feeling or emotions of 'happiness' are in this period, the eternal is both

yet a tangent reveals itself

so let's take a walk

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam

 

4.17.29

 

 

dharovāca

namaḥ parasmai puruṣāya māyayā

vinyasta-nānā-tanave guṇātmane

namaḥ svarūpānubhavena nirdhuta-

dravya-kriyā-kāraka-vibhramormaye

 

 

SYNONYMS

dharā — the planet earth; uvāca — said; namaḥ — I offer my obeisances; parasmai — unto the Transcendence; puruṣāya — unto the person; māyayā — by the material energy; vinyasta — expanded; nānā — various; tanave — whose forms; guṇa-ātmane — unto the source of the three modes of material nature; namaḥ — I offer my obeisances; svarūpa — of the real form; anubhavena — by understanding; nirdhuta — not affected by; dravya — matter; kriyā — action; kāraka — doer; vibhrama — bewilderment; ūrmaye — the waves of material existence.

 

 

TRANSLATION

The planet earth spoke: My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, You are transcendental in Your position, and by Your material energy You have expanded Yourself in various forms and species of life through the interaction of the three modes of material nature. Unlike some other masters, You always remain in Your transcendental position and are not affected by the material creation, which is subject to different material interactions. Consequently You are not bewildered by material activities.

perhaps another view (humbly shared)

The material (man) feeling and seeing (experiencing life), made a commitment; i submit to truth, shared throughout time from the collective to them; who also walked pure. I submit my person in understanding without the guise of self; in action and performance; without preconceptions; as One with the total.

The idea seems that material earth, (man alive from the mass of) upon realizing an absolute interrelation with existence itself (God), thereby a life (the light) within made a promise to be committed to learning what is true with no self as a purpose but as to be of the total, for the total.

in a sense the spirit of godhead while alive in the flesh doing what is good for the evolution of knowledge.

Thanks... something insides said there was a reason for facing the lion today