ethos

I have not been able to highlight what I want in bold yet. Now how to?... Uh so I pasted while editing. Now I continue typing. Doesn't look right here. Yes, how do intelligent devotees highlight text in bold in the middle of a paragraph. Krsna, help me! Let me see if I can do it here. Didn't work. Krsna! Where are you? I have not been able to highlight what I want in bold yet. Now how to?... Uh so I pasted while editing. Now I continue typing. Doesn't look right here. Yes, how do intelligent devotees highlight text in bold in the middle of a paragraph. Krsna, help me! Insert Bold Here. It seems the bold is inserted at end of text. I have not been able to highlight what I want in bold yet. Now how to?... Insert Bold here. Ok? Seems right. Now continue typing.

Leyh, Hare Krsna! You can just go. Go where? I don't know. I'm just going. Who knows where you'll end up. You have to have information about a destination to deliberately get there. You have to have information to buy the ticket to go. We don't buy tickets to one place and expect the airlines to take us somewhere else. The airline or the process of transportation can get you there if it's competent. You may not be able to judge the qualifications of a particular process, but you have to have enough information to choose. We do that all the time in deciding what school we should attend, where to live or whom to elect as political representatives. If you exercise blind faith in a good thing, then the blind faith is good for you. Put in a bad thing, the result is bad. Now I'm not being sectarian here. Not everyone is after the same goal nor has the constitution to compete. We really don't think the Native American Indians have the same skills and dispositions of let's say the industrious people of Japan. Our motives and expectations have everything to do with the choices we make. A simple devotee with full faith and love will return home. But who is practically possessed of such qualities? The spiritual master has been compared to a captain of the boat crossing material nescience. He may be very expert at navigation and guidance, but we are lost if we can't follow his instructions. He may direct, but we have to make an individual endeavor. Now some captains are better than others. Who do you choose?

I looked at your so-called evidence in your link here dna. I find the explanations to be no better than an alien "weather ballon" at Roswell. Even scientists interpret and dispute the evidence. So many sophisticated explanations for everything in the world, but no common sense.

Anybody interested in seeing lists of the names of God and their meanings? I'll start (but I don't know much). Don't worry about repeating. Acyuta - Krsna, who is infallible. Devaki–nandana - Krsna, the son of Devaki Govinda - gives pleasure to the cows and senses. Hrsikesa - master of all senses. Krsna - all attractive. Madhava - husband of the goddess of fortune Mukunda - the giver of liberation Paramatma - the supersoul or localized aspect of the Supreme Lord. Yajnesvara - the Lord of sacrifice Yogesvara - the master of all mystic power.

I read much of "Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy." Much I didn't understand and eventually put it down. I was left with a feeling Sadaputa didn't really understand it either, but was just conjecturing more than anything. However, I can share some arguements about the moon landing I've heard. First of all, they supposedly landed on the moon 30 years ago. Before this event, there was propaganda of going to the moon as a stepping stone to the stars, or colonize it - you know, put up vested billboards or something. Or it could have been a strategic military outpost. Now, isn't it a bit suspect that they haven't returned in 30 years. I mean there's alot of common sense in this perspective. If they can go there, why don't they? They return everywhere else they can reach. I suggest they can't go there and they can't get any more mileage out of their ploy. And why hasn't Russia or China or anyone else gone? Remember the broadcasts of the moonwalks? Now didn't the movements look a bit hokey? And where were the stars in the sky? The shadows and the whole ambience smacked of a studio. The special effects are much better now. There was a famous picture - also in the video - of the flag at the bottom of the spacepod steps along with a footprint representing the first step of mankind. The pod was also visible. Now, within that shot was a well-defined footprint in the ground that was soft enough to make the impression. Yet, there was no disturbance to the soil directly under the engine thrusters! Uh, it's amateur hour. Look how intense our deserts made of sand reflect the light and generate heat. Where was all that in those pictures of rock and sand. And if that desolate environment can make such a uniquely beautiful luminance as the moon, why don't our desert hint of that from our satellite pictures? Somewhere, maybe the Srimad-bhagavatam, the luminescience is described as resulting from a combination of fire and ice. It is also much bigger than the sun and very populated. We know there is life everywhere without exception. All they brought back were rocks. And now the so-called Mars pictures are looking an aweful lot like the moon. And here's the bottom line. America hoaxed the world for prestige and money. Through their prestige of advanced technology, they were able to sell their technical wares all around the world at great profit. So it all comes down to a quick buck which makes America what it is.

This is an interesting thread. I don't understand the "mechanics" of it. Someone please explain step by step how the parampara continued. For example, what is the connection between Sanjaya and Vyasa? And please explain more on Arjuna.

Yes, in principle and theory I agree that anyone sincerely following their religious practice can attain God. I guess I would accept that there are exceptional practitioners who overcome their built-in limitations and succeed in attracting God. In practice, I think the masses simply don't have enough information to reach their objective. To take a trip to California you have to have enough information of your destination. In other words, you watch TV or read books or communicate with someone by which you get information of California. If you don't have enough information you don't go. Most religious processes - including Christianity - simply don't have enough information for the mind to dwell on. There exists in many popular processes confusing or partial concepts of the soul, God, the afterlife and our purposes here. If you're puttering around an airport taxiing up and down the runway but never take off, you'd better switch airlines. Of course, it's debatable whether we as vaisnavas or Hindus or whatever really do that much better than the Christians - even with all our confidential information. Such is the infulence of Kali-yuga. Yet, the glorious Vedic tradition has replete, unfathomable knowledge of the process and the goal. It has also produced innumerable personalities of the purest character. Here man gets off the center stage and actually begins to personally serve God. I have heard that there is one God and one religion in reality... not by definition of time and circumstances... but in an existential sense. And that all other processes short of that one religion are but preparations for the more confidential and demanding bhakti. I think the Christians have alot to overcome within their own ranks; for example, eating meat. I also think that any lowclass murderer or dog-eater may attain heaven if his life changes and that I may see hell. Such are the mysterious ways of karma and the choices people make. But I know Vaisnavas have the best chance.

I think this is a great thread. I hope y'all will discuss it more. I feel alot of empathy for Karna for some reason, maybe because he is the underdog. And I think there are many lessons in his exemplary life. How tragic to be born king of the world and forsaken by your mother! What consequence to aspire to and win the jealously guarded portals of Histanapura only to be ruined by three blamless curses. Krsna had tears in his eyes as he told Radheya of his birth and offered him the world. Yet, being sworn to duty and truth, he stood fast by Duryodhana knowing he was doomed: "I have followed a certain pattern of life. I have formed my friendships and my loves and my enmities." There is a place where Krsna compares his many qualities to his brothers. Alas! Fate is insurmountable. A very nice edition of the Mahabharata is by Kamala Subramaniam. I would love to know if there's a complete or unabridged version that reads like a well-written story (like the one above) and not just some poetry or sloppy translation.

I am confused too. Alot of things here I've never heard. But I recognize this to be a classic. Let's play it again. I'll have to concentrate hard on this one. I can't quite formulate a question now. All that comes to mind is tell me more.

I read Forbidden Archeology. The "Origins" magazine is very nice. There is also a "Black Box" book which is written by a molecular biologists. There are several realted works out now by various qualified individuals. I find it wholy satisfying to hear the scientists defeated with their own language and empirical dogma. I have great hope in these critical efforts that expose the limitations and biases of modern scientific understanding. We should all support and propagate this glorious work.

Alot of interestinig info here. Let's play it again!

This is from a Prabhupada lecture off the Vedabase: Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.9 - Los Angeles, May 26, 1972 Krsna says the sufferings of birth... They do not understand, such fools, that what is the suffering of birth. Even if you are not killed, you have to remain compact in a vat, airtight. And the worms, they are biting. So many things. Suffocated. That is one thing. But if he can live at least for ten months, the mother does not kill, abortion, then it has got a chance to come out. Otherwise, there is no chance to come out ever. He dies within the womb, again transferred to another womb, and again it is killed. So those who are too much sinful, those who are causing these abortions, they will get this sort of life. They will never see light. One womb, killed; another womb, killed; another womb, killed; another womb, killed. This is so sinful, this abortion. And the modern civilization and the priestly order, they are passing: "If the mother selects... otherwise, there is no objection, abortion." Such foolish world is going on. You see? There are so many subtle laws of nature.

Yeah, I was just taking the general Kali-yuga formula. Practically, I think it's even lower than your reply to something around 70 now. Very few live to be 80 now. Hridyananda points out that claims are made for increasing the duration of life by the scientists. But when you factor in abortion which the scientists also give us, the life expectancy dramatically drops.

Hayagriva dasa: In The Ages of Life, Schopenhauer writes: "A complete and adequate notion of life can never be attained by anyone who does not reach old age, for it is only the old man who sees life whole and knows its natural course… He alone has a full sense of its utter vanity, whereas others never cease to labor under the false notion that everything will come right in the end." Srila Prabhupada: This may seem to be the case, but in Western countries we observe old men still following the path of sense gratification. So what is the use of their experience? Unless one receives training, it is not sufficient to become an old man in order to understand the purpose of life. Training is required from early childhood. According to the Vedic plan, an old man should take the renounced order of sannyasa and completely devote his time and energy to understanding and serving God. We do not become spiritually mature just by growing old. We should be trained from the very beginning as brahmacari. Hayagriva dasa: Schopenhauer points out that it is customary to call yourth the happy part of life and old age the sad part, but factually this is not the case. "This would be true if it were the passions that made a man happy," he writes, "but a man feels happy just insofar as his intellect is the predominating part of him." Srila Prabhupada: For modern civilization, happiness means sense gratificaion. Desire for sense gratification continues even when one is an old man; therefore early training is required. It is said that one can become an old man even without advancing in age. this means that it is knowledge that is important, not age. If one is not educated properly, he becomes an old fool. Hayagriva dasa: Schopenhauer notes that in the Upaniøads, the natural human life span is set at a hundred years. "to come to one’s end before the age of ninety means to die of disease," he writes. "In other words, prematurely." Srila Prabhupada: Yes. In this millennium, the maximum age is one hundred years, but in former millennia, men used to live for a thousand years. In the Treta-yuga, the life span was ten thousand years, and in the Satya-yuga, it was one hundred thousand years. Presently, in Kali-yuga, life has become so degraded that people expect to live only about seventy years. As one becomes more sensuous, his life span decreases. That is the law of nature.

Hayagriva dasa: In discussing the functions of the brain, Schopenhauer notes that the need for sleep is directly proportionate to the intensity of our mental activities. Dull creatures like reptiles and fish sleep little and lightly; the more intelligent animals sleep deeply and long. "the more completely awake man is," he writes, "the clearer and more lively his consciousness, the greater for him is the necessity of sleep, and thus the deeper and longer he sleeps." Srila Prabhupada: No. Those who are ignorant, materially covered, sleep more, and those who are spiritually enlightened sleep less. Sleep is a necessity of the body, and not of the soul; therefore those who are spiritually advancd do not reuire a lot of sleep. Nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau. We understnd that Rüpa Gosvami conquered sleeping, eating, and mating. When we are spiritually engaged, we consider sleep a waste of time. Those who are interested in spiritual life adjust their lives in such a way that their sleep is practically nil. Arjuna was addressed as Gudakesa, "one who has conquered sleep." Hayagriva dasa: Schopenhauer recommends about eitght hours of sleep a night. How many are recommended in the Vedic tradition? Srila Prabhupada: Sleep should be avoided, but since that is not possible, it should be adjusted to the minimum. the Gosvamis did not sleep more than two hours daily. Even some karmis are so absorbed in their work that they practically don’t sleep at all. It is said that Napoleon slept while riding his horse, and Gandhi slept while riding in a car. Generally, six hours is sufficient.

Thanks Bhatajoy for taking the trouble to post your offering from another site. It seems Dr. Ritchie tried suicide and then sought the confirmation of others through research and science; interesting. Maybe he was able to make a career resulting from his suicide.

Prabhupada made an estimation. There must be a basis for it. He didn't have to use numbers to make a point. Yes, every karmic situation is unique. Yet they are simultaneously the same in the big picture. The reactions you get and the laws you are subject to should be the same for everyone. Everyone is playing on the same field here. The standards are first established and then the exceptions discussed within the standard framework. So what are these social formulas concerning ghostly bodies?

Prabhupada says the following in Dialectic Spiritualism: It is a fact that suicide is no solution. One just implicates himself more and more. If we kill the body given by God, we have to accept another body, or remain a ghost. If I live in this body eighty years, and then commit suicide, I have to remain a ghost for five years before I get a chance to receive another body. Of course, you may argue that since the soul is everlasting, it makes no difference whether the body is killed. It is alright if the body is annihilated, but you cannot deliberately kill the body because that is hindering its progress. The living entity is destined to live in a particular body, and if you destroy that body, he has to wait for another. This means that you are interfering with his spiritual evolution, his spiritual progress. Therefore you are liable for punishment. Judging by what Prabhupada says, I'm guessing the soul is destined to live 100 years, so by shortening it by 20 with suicide a person pays 5 as a ghost. That's 1 to 4 or 4 to 1 ratio. Anybody have any thoughts or knowledge on this ghostly punishment?

I have been watching CNN. They advertise that they go after the root of the matter with hard questions. This week they have interviewed several prominent political personalities and they have all agreed that the president has not made his case for emergency response concerning Iraq. They all agree that the Republicans have ignored domestic issues and that the president has snowballed his Iraqi threat issue with the sentiments people have resulting from the terrorists twin tower bombings. They all note how the president is upsurping the power of Congress to declare war. But besides these key issues, there are some prominent figures that are boldly declaring this to be about oil. This rings true to me. To install a new regieme is to give them access to the oil. The government has provisions in their new resolutions to declare war on anyone aiding and abetting, etc. That means they could "justify" any attacks against other Muslim nations who may support and assist. Now where might that lead? Maybe there are relations and trade issues among the Muslim nations - and consequently the flow of oil - resulting from our overseas war on terrorism. Maybe Americans feel they have to secure that oil for their own profit and posterity. Thus I think this whole pretext of Saddam's weapons is just a lie and excuse for stealing his oil. Now if I'm right about this, it is a small leap to envision a plan for world domination. Oil is energy, and energy is the economy and power. As the world presently exists, to control the oil is like controlling the very blood flow of the national body. I think America is just getting it's foot in the door with this. But the powers that be may be planning to take it all. In other words, they will eventually go after all the oil fields, probably in the name of a Muslim religious war calling all of them terorist or something. I predict the Americans will leave an army in Iraq - even build a base and stay. If there are disastrous consequences, it is the poor people who will suffer and the suits remain aloof. Such are the plans of mice and men. Now we can edit! Big convenience. Thanks JNdas.

Srila Prabhupada: Schopenhauer says, "Human life must be some kind of mistake." The greatest crime of man was that he was ever born. Srila Prabhupada: When you understand that there is a crime, you must understand that someone is there to punish you. If you suffer because of that crime, you must understand that there is someone who has judged you to be criminal. Syamasundara dasa: He concludes, however, that because the world is mad or irrational, it could not possibly have an author. If there were a God, He would have set the world in order. Srila Prabhupada: We have certainly experienced that there are madmen in the world, but there are also hospitals where such men can be treated. The world may be mad, but there is hospitalization. Unfortunately, Schopenhauer has no knowledge of the hospital or of the treatment. he speaks of sinful life, but he does not accept the judge who gives the punishment for sinful life. He sees that the world is mad, but he does not know the treatment for madmen.

Of course, the locals did know alot about the Krsnas by hearing their radio broadcasts. Obviously, they liked what they heard. I've heard of other Krsna radio stations (never listened to one) but nothing of a response like this. I hope this is indicative of things to come. I liked this article so much I'm passing it around.

Hayagriva dasa: In The World As Will, Schopenhauer writes: "My body is the objectivity of my will… Besides will and idea, nothing is known to us or thinkable… The genitals are properly the focus of the will, and consequently the opposite pole of the brain, the representative of knowledge… In this respect… they were worshiped by the Hindus in the lingam, which are thus the symbol of the assertion of the will. Knowledge, on the other hand, affords the possibility of the suppression of willing, of salvation through freedom, of conquest and annihilation of the world." Srila Prabhupada: As I said before, willing is done in accordance with the body, but we should understand that we have nothing to do with this material world, which is the production of the material will. We are spiritual, and when we will spiritual, we are Krsna conscious. When we will materially, we get different types of material bodies. It is true that the basis of material life is sex. We always say: "Sex life is compared to the rubbing of two hands to relieve an itch. Grhamedhis, so-called grhasthas who have no spiritual knowledge, think that this itching is the greatest platform of happiness, although actually it is a source of distress. The krpanas, the fools who are just the opposite of brahmanas, are not satisfied by repeated sensuous enjoyment. Those who are dhira, however, who are sober, and who tolerate this itching, are not subjected to the sufferings of fools and rascals." (Bhag. 7.9.45). The basic principle of those who are addicted to the material world is maithuna, sexual intercourse. This strong desire for sex continues as long as we are in material existence, because that is the center of all pleasure. However, when we get a taste for Krsna's pleasure, we can give this up. "The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness." (Bg. 2.59) Syamasundara dasa: Schopenhauer considers sex to be selfishness, whereas real love means sympathy. Srila Prabhupada: Sex is animalistic. It is not love but lust. Sex means the mutual satisfaction of senses, and that is lust. All this lust is taking place under the name of love, and out of illusion, people mistake this lust for love. Real love says, "People are suffering from a lack of Krsna consciousness. Let us do something for them so that they can understand the value of life."

I'm starting #2 here because my slow modem takes awhile to load original thread. This way, it's easier on the viewers and the server. I am transcribing "Dialectic Spiritualism" for my own purposes. Below you will find highlights from that book. Check back for additions. I would prefer that no replies be made. It will be a long enough thread without replies. These threads are simply provided for the benefit of those who might benefit from them. Knowledge is where you find it. Hare Krsna!

From Dialectic spiritualism: Syamasundara dasa: Yet Schopenhauer felt that it is possible to crush egoism and desire by love and sympathy for others. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, without love, nothing can be sustained. If I do not love Krsna, I cannot surrender unto Him. A small child naturally surrenders unto his parents because there is love for the parents. The more you love, the more your surrender is perfect. When there is a lack of love, the mentality by which you can surrender will not develop. If you have some love for me, you will carry out my orders. there is no question of forcing one to surrender. the living entity is free to love or to reject. Without freedom, there cannot be love. Krsna consciousness means learning to love Krsna.

You and theist seem to be focusing on the Sadam threat issue. But the issue of justification, I challenge, has not be adequately resolved. And most of the world's nations agree with me on this. America should first exhaust all possible diplomacy before the use of vengeful war. Then they can better explain it to the other nations that there was no recourse since all avenues were exhausted. But besides this rather limited nationalistic dogma, I emphatically reiterate, who are we to tell even an enemy state that they can't arm themselves? And getting away with this, how long will it be before Uncle Sam locks up all dissodents for their subversive and traitorous behavior of dissagreeing with American interest. Really! How our freedoms have been erroded with the precidents set by one or a few screw-ups. Yet, no matter how big business or the government screws-up, there is no accountability. They are willing to put the punishment before the blame. This is the philsophy of "Well, I killed him and got away with it so he must have diserved it. Otherwise, why did it happen?" You have to deal with people according to what they do, not just suspicion. If Sadam attacks, then strike back - even before his missles hit. But don't blame him or anyone for something he or they haven't done. This is a monstrous political position. Who will we go after next, North Korea, China, Russia? Our freedoms and quality of life in America have dramatically decreased since the boom years of World War II which is reflective of great disregard and incompetence on the part of our government. All ettiquette, political talk and diplomacy. Yet, what is happening to the nation and it's people. All this political crap is useless. They can't police themselves or even the criminals. They can only insure the citizens fill their coiffuers. We have to admit that America is morally bankrupt. There are innumerable examples. We made Sudam in so many ways. In some ways, he beat the Americans at their own game, just like Bin Laden did. Now they want to kill him for not being a "team player", irregardless of his sovereignty over his own nation. This proposal of war is all about oil and allegence to America's right to it; thus the necessity for a puppet regeime and the pretext for favorable oil trade.