ethos

?Bhakti, or devotional service, means engaging all our senses in the service of the Lord, the master of all the senses. When the spirit soul renders service unto the Supreme, there are two side effects. He is freed from all material designations, and simply be being employed in the service of the Lord, his senses are purified.? (Bhakti-rasamita sindhu 1.1.12)

I haven't read these posts - just skimmed. But I think this response is appropriate for my intensions and in line with the thread. Bush doing a good job? The government always does this damage control when the truth is known. The people have lost faith in stocks and business sobriety. They see how a few individuals are willing to live at the expense of all others. The president and his posse are only "managing" these affairs. (That means alot coming from a leader with the same philosophy.) Like a mafia leader who officially opposes drugs but accepts the money and then kills if an underling is caught, the president and his cronies are simply cleaning up. Nothing will change - just appearances. Is it now a "good job" to blame someone for something they haven't done, to punish an individual or group for something you think they may do? This Sadam thing is about oil. The "companies" have alot to gain financially, Bush satisfies his personal vendetta for Sadam's attack on his father, and the national problems are forgotten as we unite against a common enemy. These are all the classical reasons for war. Everyone talks about the Sadam threat. I say why can't he have weapons of mass destruction like any other nation? Who is America to say who can and can't have them? I mean isn't this a bit imperialistic. Same old x - "We can do it and you can't." The political and military war dogs should show a little more common sense when spending so much wealth and resources toward developing better ways to kill people. The technological threshold is short-lived as the "bad guys" steal or update their technologies to match. You get what you pay for. And if so much effort is for war, what will be the result? All this dogmatic bullying technological pursuit is pushing things to the point of "get them before they get me" philosophy. Isn't this the "smoking gun" idea? The ramifications and repercussions of this are quite hellish. It is certainly a scenario for self-destruction.

Ok, I got sucked into this one. This is my understanding of Prabhupada's philosophy on religions. It is dogmatic to say "this religion or spiritual process is the only way." It also says nothing about the substance or truth of a religion (or spiritual process) to say that they all make claims and therefore negate each other. (If they're all true, none of them are true. If we're all kings, then no one is king.) Every religion has a prescribed process. If you don't submit yourself to the process, then you're not a suitable candidate for the knowledge. This holds true for material science as well. You cannot judge another's knowledge in a particular field unless you yourself have the knowledge. It is meaningless to say "no one knows." And you can't say if someone knows unless "you" know. Now that's a general rule for knowledge, but a particular individual may be very advanced- so much so that everyone accepts him as an authority. Prabhupada, the personification of philosophy and religious science, accepted time-tested, world-class religions. Yet he also pointed out the faults of many spiritual philosophies and established Krsna consciousness as most revealing and confidential. All processes can be put on a philosophical ladder so to speak; some higher, some lower. It's not that they're all the same. So we have to see the merits of each process. Hare Bol theist and leyh!

You're smart and funny theist.

Wow! (me too!) Wow, wow, wow, wow! What a wonderful story. Now if integration and harmony can be found even with the Mormons -- there is renewed hope that peaceful coexistence can be realized with the radicals within the Muslim faith. I wonder if the Krsnas go to the Mormon services? Why did they build such a large temple? And why is it in the air? For the view?

Hayagriva dasa: When Lord Krsna says that He is sex life according to dharma, does that mean that He can be perceived in that way? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, if one perfoms the Garbhadhana ceremony to beget a Krsna conscious child, Krsna is remembered. It is the duty of the father to remember Krsna while having sex, thinking, "Krsna, give me a child who will be your devotee." This kind of sex is for Krsna, and is Krsna, but if one has sex for his own sense enjoyment, that is demoniac. Hayagriva dasa: But isn't Krsna present nonetheless? Srila Prabhupada: Krsna is always present, but when we hold the Garbhadhana ceremony to beget a Krsna conscious child, we remember Krsna. The rules and regulations for the Garbhadhana ceremony are given in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. As soon as society abandons this ceremony, people become degraded.

Hayagriva dasa: In the Phenomenology of the Spirit, Hegel deprecates the use of plants and animals as objects of religion, considering it a kind of pantheism typical of Hinduism. How would worship of the tulasi plant or the cow differ? Srila Prabhupada: God has specifically said that among plants, He is the tulasi. It is not that the Hindus are worshipping just any plant. For instance, in Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says, pranavah sarva-vedesu. "I am the syllable Om in the Vedic mantras." (Bg. 7.8) Therefore the word Om is used in mantras, as in om tad visnoh paramam padam. We know that oàkara is God because God says so. God gives instructions on how He should be realized, and we have only to follow. What is the point in speculating? We can never understand the unlimited God by our limited speculation. Hayagriva dasa: But if God is in all animals and in all plants, why concentrate on any particular ones? Why not worship all? Srila Prabhupada: that is especially prohibited. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says: "By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them." (Bg. 9.4) The soul and the Supersoul exist within the body of a dog, but this does not mean that the barking of a dog is the word of God. Vivekananda said that we should worship daridra, the poor man in the street. He even used the word daridra-narayana, indicating that Narayana, God, has become poor, daridra. Although the body of a daridra rests in God, Narayana, we should not consider his body to be the body of Narayana. Everything in a government may rest on the orders of the king, but the king is not personally present everywhere. According to the acintya-bhed¢bheda philosophy, God is simultaneously one with and different from His creation. God is undoubtedly present in the heart of the daridra, the poor man, but we should not consider the daridra to be God. That is an impersonalist Mayavadi mistake. That is pantheism.

Syamasundara dasa: Hegel would like to have philosophy without religion because he saw religion as basically an incumbrance. Srila Prabhupada: Such a philosophy is simply mental speculation. If he claims that philosophy is superior to religion, then religion supported by philosophy is real religion; otherwise it is sentiment. As I stated before, the orders of God constitute religion. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna syas, "Surrender unto Me." This is religion. When we try to understand why Krsna wants us to surrender unto Him, why we are obliged to surrender unto Him, we are in the realm of philosophy. When philosophy supports religion, it is perfect. It is neither sentiment, nor mental speculation.

Syamasundara dasa: Hegel believed that in the highest religion, God is seen as Father, Son, and all-pervasive Holy Spirit. Thus he considered Christianity to be the perfect religion. Srila Prabhupada: Is it perfect to say that God only has one son? If God is unlimited, why is He limited to only one son? Syamasundara dasa: Well, he claims that Christ represents nature, or the objective world, because Christ is God incarnate. Srila Prabhupada: When there is an incarnation of God as the son of God, and an incarnation of God as God Himself, which is superior? If God has begotten a son, God is a father, a person. How can a son be born of an impersonal father? What evidence do we have of such a thing ever happening?

wife response: Were you able to verify by using the eyedropper tool in Photoshop or doing a cut and paste? What I did was cut out the square in the shadow and then move it up to compare side by side with the other square. I was amazed that they were identical. I was even more amazed as I watched myself moving the cut out peice (my eyes were "adjusting" as I watched it).

Syamasundara dasa: For Hegel, religion is pure thought put into form. Srila Prabhupada: He has no knowledge of what religion is. Religion is neither imagination nor pure thought. Religion is the order coming from the most pure. This cannot be imagined or created. We need only receive the instructions from the most pure. These are given in Bhagavad-gita. We are not imagining this.

Jndas, Hare bol! Uh, I don't know enough about it to say myself. I couldn't even understand the examle or the webpage explanation. I'll see if my wife can explain and get back to ya in a couple hours when she returns home.

Syamasundara dasa: Hegel believes that the dominant nation in any epoch represents a dominant phase of the Absolute at that time. For instance, if the United States is currently predominant, the Absolute is being expressed through the United States. Srila Prabhupada: Aeons ago, the Absolute Truth was connected to the dominant nation. That is, to Maharaja Pariksit. Because Maharaja Pariksit and Maharaja Yudhisthira were representing God, they could dominate the entire world. Now all that is lost, and today there are many small states that are not God conscious; therefore they are fighting each other like cats and dogs. Still, it is a fact that Vedic kings like Maharaja Ramacandra, Maharaja Prthu, Maharaja Yudhisthira, and Maharaja Pariksit were actually representatives of God. In those days, one king ruled the entire world. Therefore there was no trouble. Syamasundara dasa: Could America's dominance in this century be attributed to God's will? Srila Prabhupada: Whenever we see some extraordinary power, we should understand that it is derived from God's power. We may therefore say that the predominance of America is due to God's favor. However, if Americans spread Krsna consciousness and make their president Krsna conscious, America will be God's empowered nation. Let the president be Krsna conscious. Why not? Educate the American people to be Krsna conscious and elect a Krsna conscious president. This Krsna consciousness movement is in your hands, and it is up to you to utilize it and become the factual leaders of the world. It was my mission to go to America and educate the Americans in Krsna consciousness becasue I knew that if they become Krsna conscious, the whole world will follow. You are young men, and this mission is in your hands. A few Communists like Stalin and Lenin formed a big Communist Party, and now this Party is dominating most of the world. It was started by a few men. Now many of you young Americans have understood this God conscious philosophy, and it is up to you to spread this movement. You should not become stagnant, thinking, "Now I have understood Krsna consciousness. Now let me sit down and just chant Hare Krsna." This is not desired. Go spread Krsna consciousness, and in that way glorify your nation.

Syamasundara dasa: Hegel also maintains that each state should be independent in itself and not be subordinate to other states. Srila Prabhupada: Every state may be independent in an individual capacity, but every state is dependent on God's order. If the states are representatives of God, how can they be independent? Syamasundara dasa: He claims that there is no higher body to judge the states, and that their differences must be settled by war. Srila Prabhupada: There is higher authority if there is religion, philosophy and learned brahmanas. Syamasundara dasa: He can see no potential world authority. Srila Prabhupada: That is because the Vedic varnasrama-dharma has been rejected. According to that system, the brahminical culture was superior to the køatriya culture. The brahmanas are to advise the kings. Because people have rejected the Vedic system, they say that there is no authority. Syamasundara dasa: Well, there was no judge to settle the dispute between Rama and Ravana, and that resulted in war. Srila Prabhupada: The judge was Lord Ramacandra Himself. He is God. Syamasundara dasa: In a sense, Hegel glorifies war. "War protects the people from the corruption which an everlasting peace would bring upon them," he says. Srila Prabhupada: At the conclusion of the battle of Kuruksetra, Sanjaya points out that wherever there is Krsna, there will be victory (Bg. 18.78). If there is a war, the party that is God conscious will be victorious. If neither side is God conscious, it is a demonic war. It is not justified; it is just like a cat and dog fight. If we fight, we should fight on behalf of the Supreme God. That is called dharma-yuddha. Arjuna did not want to fight, but Krsna told him, "I am on your side. Fight." Arjuna was victorious because God was on his side. Syamasundara dasa: For Hegel, because the conflict itself is purifying, it has some ethical value. He writes, "By war, the ethical health of the nation is preserved, and its finite aims uprooted." Srila Prabhupada: Then he wants continuous war? If that is the case, Hitler is a first-class man. But why is he condemned? Of course, in the material world, there are opposing elements, and therefore there must be war. It is not that war can be stopped. Rather, the party that has Krsna?s support will emerge victorious. We don't say that you can stop war, but that if you fight, you should fight on behalf of Krsna. Syamasundara dasa: But what of Hegel's view that progress comes only through conflict, and that peace means stagnation? Srila Prabhupada: We do not agree that peace is stagnation. Our peace is working for Krsna. That is real peace. We are educating people to understand that Krsna is our friend, and this is not stagnation. Telling people about Krsna is our peace. Syamasundara dasa: Are we not in a state of war with material nature, maya? Srila Prabhupada: We don't fight with maya. Those who are under maya's clutches and who are being kicked by maya are struggling with maya. We have nothing to do with maya. "This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it." (Bg. 7.14) If maya does not disturbe us, what is the point of fighting? Syamasundara dasa: Hegel looks on world history as the supreme tribunal, the higher judge of events. History will bear out the worth of an empire and national policy. Srila Prabhupada: We say that whatever empire comes will certainly fall. There is no need to study history to know that. A godless empire will never endure. Hayagriva dasa: Hegel considered history and theology to be intrinsic. History is "a justification of God," and tells the story of man's elevation to God. Without the history of man, God would be alone and lifeless. Since God is not transcendental but is manifest in the world, He depends on human history. Srila Prabhupada: But if God is dependent on human history, how can He be God? God is always independent. If He is dependent on anything. He is not God.

My wife sent me this from work: Open the link below to show to the kids (a coworker sent me the link). It sure tricked me--I had to get the image and open it up in Photoshop to verify that the grey colors were identical. http://www-bcs.mit.edu/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html

Syamasundara dasa: According to Hegel, in a well ordered monarchy, only the law has objective power; the king is simply the servant of the law. Srila Prabhupada: That is constitutional manarchy, a showbottle king. If a king is God conscious and is trained up properly and has complete power, he is rajarsi. In Bhagavad-gita, it is mentioned that the ancient saintly kings had understood this science of Krsna consciousness (Bg. 4.2) They were not ordinary men. The king was supposed to have been saintly. He had to understand the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita and introduce an educational system so that the people could understand the science of God. That is the very first duty of the state and king. It is also stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam that one should not become a head of state, a father, or a guru if he cannot save his wards from the imminent danger of death (Bhag. 5.5.18). We are now entangled in repeated birth and death, and it is the state's duty to promote liberation from this cycle. Syamasundara dasa: Hegel considers it the purpose of the state and king to apply moral law. Srila Prabhupada: That is the duty of the king, but the leaders in modern democratic states are concerned only with exacting taxes. It is stated in the sastras that if the leaders keep the citizens morally blind and exact taxes from them, the leaders will go to ruination. Because they are sinfully earning money, they suffer in this life and the next. Similarly, when the guru accepts disciples, he takes the responsibility for their sinful reactions. When a king levies taxes, he takes a share of the sinful reactions of the citizens. If the citizens are pious, both the king and the citizens will profit. If not, if it is a case of the blind leading the blind, they will lead one another to hell. The main point is that the head of state should be a representative of God, and his duty should be to train citizens to become God conscious.

Sysmasundara dasa: Hegel believes that punishment for crime is justified because it vindicates justice and restores rights. Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore when one kills an animal, he should be prepared to be killed. That is justice. According to the Manu-samhita, it is justice to hang a murderer. It is unjust to save him because if he is not hanged in this life, he escapes justice, and has to suffer severely in the next. In order to be saved from many troubles in the next life, the murderer should be killed. The king who is hanging him is doing him justice in rendering a life for a life. But according to Vedic philosophy, if one kills an animal, he should also be prepared to be killed. A sane man would not run such a risk. Sysmasundara dasa: If I observe in nature that living entities are killing one another to eat, it only seems rational that I should be able to eat animals. Srila Prabhupada: Well, Vedic philosophy also accepts the fact that one living being is food for another. "Those who are devoid of hands are prey for those who have hands; those devoid of legs are prey for the four-legged. The weak are the subsistence of the strong, and the general rule holds that one living being is food for another." (Bhag. 1.13.47) But this does not mean that you should kill your son and eat him. There must be discrimination. It is nature's law that we have to eat other living beings in order to exist; therefore we can eat fruit and vegetables. We can take these without killing the treees and plants. But if we eat animals, we have to kill them. The point is that we should act intelligently to make the best of a bad bargain. We take fruits, grains, vegetables, and milk products, and offer them to Krsna. If there is any responsibility, it is Krsna's. After offering the food to Krsna, we then accept it as prasadam. "The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin." (Bg. 3.13) If you cook for yourself, you have to take all the responsibility for your sinful activity, even if you are a vegetarian. We therefore take the remnants of yajna, sacrifice, and in this way we perform yajna. It is not that we prepare food directly for our own consumption.

Hayagriva dasa: He says that mankind has the right of absolute proprietorship. He writes: "A thing belongs to the accidental first comer who gets it, because a second comer cannot take possession of what is already the property of another." Srila Prabhupada: In other words, might makes right. But consider, how would you take ownership of gold? First of all, you must hunt out gold that has no proprietor. You must inquire who the actual proprietor of the gold is. You may claim first proprietorship, but the gold was there in the first place. Whose property is it? Who made the gold and kept it before you came along? Hayagriva dasa: Hegel would say that ?the first comer is not legal owner by virtue of his being the first comer, but becasue he has free will.? That is, it is mine becasue I put my will into it. Srila Prabhupada: That's all right, but someone made the gold and kept it before you went to capture it. Since this was the case, by willing it to be yours, or by taking it, you become a common thief, not a philosopher. Our claim to proprietorship is false becasue we are neither the creators no maintainers of property. Syamasundara dasa: As far as action is concerned, activity in accordance with conscience is proper activity for Hegel. Srila Prabhupada: A thief becomes accustomed to stealing, and therefore his conscience says, "Yes, I must steal. It is my right." The conscience of a murderer tells him to murder. Originally, the Bible said, "Thou shalt not kill," but people have created a conscience by which they can think, "Yes, killing is all right." Conscience is created by association. If our association is good, we create a good conscience, and if it is bad, we create a bad conscience. There is no absolute standard for the conscience. Conscience means discriminating power.

Sysmasundara dasa: Hegel sees idea and substance opposing one another as thesis and antithesis; spirit is the synthesis containing both. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we agree. Viruddhartha-sambandha. Contradictory things are adjusted in Krsna; therefore we say that Krsna is inconceivable. He is simultaneously one with and different from His creation. Since it is impossible to conceive of these things in the material world, they are called inconceivable. Sysmasundara dasa: Then if we conceive of something, must it exist somewhere? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. It is a fact that you cannot conceive of anything that does not have existence. In this material world, we understand that one plus one equals two, and that one minus one equals zero, but in the spiritual world, this law does not apply. There, one plus one equals one, and one minus one equals one. Sysmasundara dasa: But what of the idea that God is evil? Can I conceive of this? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, God is also evil, but not according to our understanding. God is Absolute, and evil and good are reconciled in Him. We cannot say that because we think of God as evil that He is evil. Rather, we say that He is all good because He is Absolute. Sysmasundara dasa: What of the idea that God does not exist? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, it is a fact that He does not exist as far a s rascals are concerned. Since Sysmasundara dasa: What of the idea that I am God? Srila Prabhupada: That is also a fact because you are part and parcel of God. You may say. "I am an American," and President Nixon can also say, "I am an American," but this does not mean that you are President Nixon. It is madness to claim such a thing.

Syamasundara dasa: According to Plato's and Kant's philosophy, these temporary objects are representations of an ideal. This table, for instance, represents or expresses the ideal table, but it is not the ideal itself. Srila Prabhupada: We also say that this material world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world. It is like a mirage. Sridhara Svami said that it is due to the actuality of the spiritual world that this illusory world appears to be true. Because there is in reality a real table, we can perceive this table. Although the entire material creation is but a perverted reflection of the reality, people are enamored by it. People take this to be a real table, a real body, a real society, real happiness, and so on. Syamasundara dasa: Hegel would say that these are genuine externalizations of the reality, that this is a real table and that these are real objects. It is not that they are images of the real, but that they themselves are real. "Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent there is no cessation. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both." (Bg. 2.16) Reality refers to that which exists eternally. This table exists temporarily; therefore it cannot be classified as reality. It is like a dream or hallucination because it is temporary. We cannot say that a dream is real, although in a dream everything appears to be real. Syamasundara dasa: But isn't there a table on the spiritual platform? An absolute table? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, in Krsna's abode there are tables, chairs, all kinds of furniture eternally existing. But these things are manifest here only temporarily. Syamasundara dasa: Which is correct? Does the spirit express itself in this object, or is it that the spirit is this object? Srila Prabhupada: The object is an expression of the spiritual energy. Whatever is manifest is the energy of Krsna, but one energy is eternal, and another energy is temporary. That which is manifest temporarily is material, and that which is manifest eternally is spiritual. Syamasundara dasa: So, in that sense, can you say that this table is made of spirit, but at the same time is not? Srila Prabhupada: Originally, it is made of spirit in the sense that Krsna is the whole spirit, and becasue it is Krsna's energy, it is factually Krsna. You may make various images out of clay. You may mold pots and bricks, and they may be manifest temporarily as pots and bricks, but originally they are clay, and when they are destroyed, they will again merge into their original condition. There are three conditions: the formless condition, the form, and again a merging into the formless. In Srimad-Bhagavatam, Krsna tells Lord Brahma: "It is I, the Personality of Godhead, who was existing before the creation when there was nothing but Myself. Nor was there the material nature, the cause of this creation. That which you see now is also I, the Personality of Godhead, and after annihilation what remains will also be I, the Personality of Godhead." (Bhag. 2.9.33) So, Krsna existed in the beginning of the creation; He maintains the creation; and when the creation is annihilated, He continues to exist. Syamasundara dasa: Therefore, the Mayavadis would say that this table is maya? Srila Prabhupada: They say that it is maya, but we say that it is temporary. Syamasundara dasa: But there?s also a spiritual world full of form? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but the Mayavadis do not know this. What is the source of these forms? The Vedanta-sütra states: janmady asya. Form comes from the original source. These forms that we see here are not eternal forms. They are imitations, perverted reflections of eternal forms. A reflection is not eternal. Syamasundara dasa: Hegel says that these forms are not eternal but that the interaction of forms is an eternal process. Srila Prabhupada: A mirage is neither factual nor eternal, but there is factual and eternal water. Syamasundara dasa: But if the universe is rational and everything has a purpose, this temporary form is also spiritual becasue it has some kind of purpose. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we are utilizing everything for Krsna's purpose. Our proposal is to make the best use of a bad bargain. Syamasundara dasa: But what if a person doesn't know the purpose? Is the object still spiritual? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Whether a person knows or does not know, fact is fact. We have only to receive knowledge from one who knows. All objects are spiritual, but one who does not have Syamasundara dasa: Then is God's plan unfolding itself everywhere, whether we understand it or not? Srila Prabhupada: Yes. He reveals Himself in Bhagavad-gita, and He sends His representative to unfold His plan. The essence of things is spiritual, but our imperfect vision makes things material.

Here is confirmation of this thread thesis-- A must read-- Very powerful! Please see "There Is Only Spirit" under the Dialectic Spiritualism Highlights thread. Knowledge is where you find it.

Syamasundara dasa: Hegel wanted to reverse the trend from abstraction to concretion. He believed that every phenomenal object has its relationship with the whole, which is reality. To understand reality, we must examine all objects and relate them to the whole and to each other. Srila Prabhupada: That is our process. The whole is Krsna, and everything is related to Krsna. Becasue we see everything related to Krsna, we do not artificially renounce anything, but try to utilize everything in the service of Krsna. Although the Mayavadi philosophers say that everything is Brahman, their process is neti-neti: "Not this, not that." In this way, the Mayavadis say that Krsna and His worship are also maya. Our philosophy is that everything is a manifestation of Krsna's energy; the energy and the energetic are one. Narada explained: "The Supreme Lord Personality of Godhead is Himself this cosmos, and still He is aloof from it. From Him only has this cosmic manifestation emanated, in Him it rests, and unto Him it enters after annihilation. Your good self knows all about this. I have given only a synopsis." (Bhag. 1.5.20) The whole universe is Bhagavan, Krsna, but it appears to be separate. How it is not separate can be understood through Krsna consciousness. Ordinary men think of Krsna and non-Krsna, but there is no non-Krsna. That is illusion. Everything is Krsna. Syamasundara dasa: For Hegel, nothing can be separated from the spiritual whole because everything is related to it. For Kant, phenomenon is the mode in which things-in-themselves respresent themselves to the individual. Srila Prabhupada: It is explained in Bhagavad-gita that Krsna has two energies: the spiritual and the material. His spiritual energy is described as superior, and His material energy as inferior. These designations are given for our consideration because we cannot understand otherwise, but the fact is that there is only one energy: the superior spiritual energy. When this spiritual energy is covered by ignorance, it is called material energy. The sky is naturally clear, and we can normally see the sun, but when there are clouds, we cannot see it. Still, the sun is there. When we cannot see Krsna or understand Him, we experience what is called the material energy. The fact is that there is nothing material because everything is Krsna. Syamasundara dasa: Hegel says the objects themselves are the spirit expressing itself in objective nature, whereas Kant maintains that the spirit expresses itself through objects. There is a distinction made between the spirit within the object expressing itself, and the spirit as the object. Srila Prabhupada: The object as it is is spirit. In one sense, the sunshine is not the sun, but at the same time, it is not different from the sun because it is the sun's heat and light. Therefore our philosophy is acintya-bhedabheda-tattva: simultaneously one and different. All these objects are actually spirit, but if we have no sense of Krsna, we consider them to be material. Sometimes people criticize us for using material devices like dictaphones, typewriters, and airplanes, but we reply that these things are spiritual. If they are used for our sense gratification, they are material, but if used in realtion to Krsna, they are spiritual. It is the consciousness that is important. Rüpa Gosvami says: "One is said to be situated in the fully renounced order of life if he lives in accordance with Krsna consciousness. He should be without attachment for sense gratification and should accept only what is necessary for the upkeep of the body. On the other hand, one who renounces things which could be used in the service of Krsna, under the pretext that such things are material, does not practice complete renunciation." (Bhakti-rasamita-sindhu 1.2.255-256) Everything has its relationship with Krsna. Rejecting everything as false is artificial renunciation. Our method is to renounce things for our sense gratification, but accept everything for Krsna's satisfaction. Krsna says: "One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstances, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman." (Bg. 14.26) As soon as we engage fully in devotional service, we are immediately spiritualized. When we are in devotional service, the spiritual quality of everything is revived. In truth, everything is spirit, but it is covered by our material consciousness, just as gold may be covered by mud. If we cleanse the heart, we immediately understand that things are spiritual. In material consicousness, we conceive of ourselves as Americans, Indians, men, women, and so on, but when we come to our spiritual consciousness, we realize, "I am Krsna's servant." Thus we understand that we are spiritual. These material conceptions are like dreams. When we are dreaming, we may think that we are this or that, or that we are performing so many acts, but when we awake, we understand our real identity. Because we are part and parcel of Krsna, we have no duty other than to serve Krsna. When this consciousness comes, everything is spiritual.

Syamasundara dasa: Fichte says that in order to understand reality, reason must follow a process called the dialectical method, which involves thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. First comes the thesis, which fails to provide an adequate solution; this gives rise to an antithesis, the opposite, which is also inadequate; the dilemma is resolved by combining the two into a synthesis. Srila Prabhupada: The thesis is that I am trying to be master of this material world. The antithesis is that my spiritual master informs me that I am the eternal servant of God. The synthesis is that I become master and servant simultaneously, because by serving Krsna, I master my senses. Syamasundara dasa: According to Fichte, the thesis is the ego; the antithesis is the non-ego; and the synthesis is the unification of ego and non-ego. Srila Prabhupada: The ego arises when I think, "I am the monarch of all I survey." The antithesis is, "I am not the monarch but the servant of my senses." Through the synthesis, I become a servant of Krsna and simultaneously a master of the senses, a svami, or gosvami. Syamasundara dasa: For Fichte, this dialectical process is endless, for each synthesis in turn becomes a new thesis, etc. However, the ultimate synthesis is the Absolute, or God. Srila Prabhupada: It is explained in Bhagavad-gita that those who attempt to attain God in this way, through the process of mental speculation, eventually attain God, but only after many lives. However, one who is intelligent immediately surrenders when he understands God to say, "Just surrender unto Me." This saves time. You can come to the ultimate synthesis, God, by immediately surrendering. If you can perfect your life immediately, why perpetuate this process? Syamasundara dasa: Fichte states that the original thesis, or the starting point, is the person and his consciousness, the ego. The antithes is the object of consciousness, phenomena, the non-ego. The synthesis arises with the unification of the subject-object. Srila Prabhupada: The Vedas admit that there is direct knowledge, then knowledge received from authority. These combine to form transcendental, spiritual knowledge. At present, our ego is false becasue we are thinking, "I am matter. I am this body." When we come to real knowledge, we understand that we are spirit soul. This is our true identity. The function of the individual spirit soul is to eternally serve the supreme spirit soul, Krsna.

Sysmasundara dasa: In Critique of Practical Reason, Kant affirmed that moral laws are necessary and universal objects for the human will and must be accepted as valid for everyone. We can know what is morally right a priori, by intuition. Srila Prabhupada: No, morality is relative. It varies according to the development of a particular society. For instance, there are many immoral acts taking place in modern society, but no one cares. People go ahead and act as they please. Sysmasundara dasa: Then there is no universal morality? Srila Prabhupada: Universal morality means obeying God. That's all. Sysmasundara dasa: But are any of God's laws fixed? Srila Prabhupada: All laws are included if you obey God. That is universal morality. "Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend." (Bg. 18.65) This is the basis of morality. We must become Krsna's servitor. Since so many immoral activities are being accepted as moral, how else can a person know what is moral and what is not? Hayagriva dasa: Kant writes: "For a rational but finite being, the only thing possible is an endless progress from the lower to the higher degrees of moral perfection." Srila Prabhupada: This means that there is an endless struggle to understand real morlality. This is not necessary. We need only accept the orders of God and follow them. That is ultimate reality. Hayagriva dasa: What Kant means by morality is rather vague. He does not give specific outlines for action. Rather, he writes, "The moral individual is to do what is good only becasue it is good." According tohis categorical imperative, man should act in such a way that the maxim of his actions might become the prinicple for universal law. Srila Prabhupada: But that is impossible for the individual soul It is impossible fo a conditioned living entity to do something that will be universally accepted. Hayagriva dasa: Then man cannot establish a universal law by his own actions? Srila Prabhupada: No. Only God can do so. Only God can say, "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me." (Bg. 18.66) If an individual conditioned soul says this, who will accept Him? Sysmasundara dasa: But Kant says that there are certain imperatives that we are born with. Srila Prabhupada: What are these? He should say specifically. The only universal imperative is that you should be obedient to God. That's all. Syamasundara dasa: Ideally, for Kant, it is the moral obligation of everyone to obey the moral commands. Srila Prabhupada: Not moral commands, but the supreme command. As I said, what is moral for you may be immoral for others. One man's food is another's poison. If Krsna tells Yudhisthira to lie, that lying is moral. Krsna tells Arjuna to fight and kill, and that killing is moral. Morality means obeying God's order. Because your senses are imperfect, you cannot create morality. You cannot even know what is moral. Therefore you should follow the orders of Krsna or His representative. The real categorical imperative is to obey the Supreme. That is morality, and anything else is immoral. Syamasundara dasa: Then we are not born with a priori knowledge of what is right? Srila Prabhupada: A priori in the sense that we know we have to obey Krsna. That knowledge is manifest even in uncivilized men. When aborigines see a thunderbolt, they offer prayers. It is natural and inborn to offer obeisances. Syamasundara dasa: Kant says that it is not the act itself which is good or bad, but the will behind the act. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but that will has to be developed. A child has will, but it has to be developed by his teacher. Everyone in the material world is in ignorance; therefore it is called a place of darkness. The Vedas advise: "Don't remain in darkness. Go to the light." The spiritual world is light. In the material world, since our will is in darkness, it is bound to be imperfect. The will has to be dragged to the light, and that requires superior help. We cannot think, "I'm doing this for a good cause; therefore it is good." In this way, people manufacture all kinds of creeds and act in every way. guidance is required. We must consult a superior authority for confirmation.

Syamasundara dasa: According to Kant, when we examine material phenomena by our reason, we arrive at certain contradicitons called antimonies??that is, two opposing statements regarded to be true. Srila Prabhupada: In Sanskrit, this is called viruddhartha, words that mean both yes and no. Syamasundara dasa: Another antimony questions the existence of an Absolute Being: "There exists an absolutely necessary being, which belongs to the world either as a part or as the cause." And, "There nowhere exists an absolutely necessary being, either in the world or outside, as its cause." Thus according to reason, we can conclude that there is either a God or no God. Srila Prabhupada: What reasoning can support the nonexistence of God? Syamasundara dasa: We can conclude this by using the senses. Srila Prabhupada: But where do you get your senses? Syamasundara dasa: One could say that they are only a combination of matter. Srila Prabhupada: But where does this matter come from? Syamasundara dasa: According to material reasoning, one can say that there is no necessary cause. Srila Prabhupada: But we can see that matter is growing, coming into existence like a tree. Syamasundara dasa: It may have been eternally existing. Srila Prabhupada: How is that? A tree is not eternally existing. This brass pot is not eternally existing. Someone has made it. Syamasundara dasa: But the matter itself could have been eternally existing. Srila Prabhupada: But we can see that it is not only existing. It is growing. A tree is wood, and wood is matter. How is it growing? Similarly, our material bodies take birth at a certain moment, grow, reproduce, dwindle, and finally vanish. This is the nature of all matter. Everything starts out as a seed and grows from there. Now, where does the seed come from? Krsna says "I am the original seed of all existences." (Bg. 7.10) Therefore, Krsna is the cause of everything. Syamasundara dasa: Kant's point is that these antimonies arise from the attempt by reason to apply its categories to the Absolute, the transcendent. But by mundane reasoning alone, we cannot approach the Absolute. Srila Prabhupada: By our reasoning, we can see that everything is growing and that the entire cosmic manifestation must have grown from a source. Syamasundara dasa: But this is transcendental reasoning. Srila Prabhupada: No, common reason. Everything is growing from a certain source; therefore this material world must have grown from a certain source. It is very simple. Syamasundara dasa: But some people can look at the seed of a tree and come to a different conclusion. Srila Prabhupada: Well, we also receive this information from authoritative literature, from the Vedas. Syamasundara dasa: Someone can apply different reasoning and arrive at a different conclusion. Srila Prabhupada: But is this reasoning proved by experience? Can a man prove that he is born without a father? How did the material body come into existence? How can one deny his father? How can one deny the cause? He cannot because his very existence is depending on some casuse. Syamasundara dasa: Kant is simply saying that whenever we begin to speculate about the Absolute, we run into contadictions. Syamasundara dasa: Someone can apply different reasoning and arrive at a different conclusion. Srila Prabhupada: Contradiction is due to imperfect knowledge. Unless we conclude that Krsna is the cause of all causes, our knowledge is doomed to be imperfect. Vedic literature say that Krsna glanced at material nature and impregnated her. Then so many products developed, including all these categories. Matter and spirit combined to bring this whole cosmic manifestation into existence.