ethos

From dialectic Spiritualism: Hayagriva dasa: As soon as Huxley became a Darwinist, he rejected a supernatural god and the Bible, proclaiming that ?argument from design? had ?received its death blow.? Unlike spinoza, he did not accept a pantheistic God, but believed in ?the Divine government of the universe,? and felt that the cosmic process is rational and not accidental. Still, he rejected a personal God concerned with morality. Srila Prabhupada: That is a mistake. Nature in itself is not rational; it is simply dead matter. A piece of wood is not rational, but the carpenter who shapes it is. the cosmic process may be rational, but this is only becasue there is a rational being behind it. that rational being is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. nature cannot be rational out of its own accord any more than a piece of wood can become a table without a carpenter.

Empirical Knowledge Is Limited In the past two hundred years, there have been unprecedented achievements in material science and technology. Unfortunately, we have become hypnotized with the power acquired from moving matter. When we attempt to derive world views –– mechanistic world views and so on –– from simply moving matter and claim that empirical knowledge actually presents a real picture of the way things really are, we create more ignorance than knowledge. Pervasive world views today put too much emphasis on empirical knowledge. The normal method for understanding things, empiricism, is very useful for understanding inferior things only. The simple reason being that you cannot empirically study something unless you can do something to it. You cannot “do something” to superior things because that access is not there. When you say at what temperature water boils or metal bends you can speak with precision. If you couldn’t speak reliably, how could an airplane fly? Every time one takes off it would be anyone‘s guess where it would go –– up, down, sideways or whatever. But in fact, when we deal with physical objects we can speak with precision. Therefore we can have machines. We can speak accurately when dealing with physical objects because we can manipulate them. But, since we cannot control others precisely, we cannot predict their behavior. There is no strict science of behavior the way there is a science of, say boiling water. This is because of a rudiment called free will. Water cannot decide, “Well, I’m just not going to boil today. I‘m not into it.” A machine can‘t say, “Get your dirty hands off me. I’m tired, I‘ve worked enough.” Physical objects don’t have free will, but living beings do. Therefore, there is always that variable which cannot be consistently predicted. Now, imagine even greater living entities who are far superior to human beings. You can‘t do anything with them. Therefore, if you say that everything must be empirically demonstrated, two big problems arise. First, you limit yourself to understanding inferior things only. By prior assumption, nothing can be real or true unless it can be manipulated. Obviously, it’s a very obnoxious, ridiculous assumption to make. But this is the accepted standard. Secondly, the assertion contradicts itself. If nothing is real unless it can be empirically demonstrated, how will you empirically demonstrate that statement? You can‘t. Therefore, if the statement is true, it‘s not true because it can‘t be empirically demonstrated. That‘s not very good science. viewpoints presented are taken from lectures given by Hridayanada das Gosvami

The Vedabase is Awesome! Can't live without it now. I have the Mac 4.11 version. They told me it took a team of several people 10 years to create. The original Sanskrit Devangali (Is that it?) is present in some chapters (Bhagavatam for sure) and not in others. Inconsistent. I'm told that the new version scheduled for release this year will include all the Back to Godhead Magazines and Prabhupada Vysasa-puja books over the years. Hare Bol! The official contents are here: http://www.vedabase.com/access.htm

karthik_y, Hare Krsna! You did call the Pandavas 'so base' which they simply were not. And you can judge Krsna too! I think I have already answered you. If you are not disputing that everything happens due to the plan of Krsna, then don't dispute violence in the name of religion 'cause that happens too. Krsna was telling Arjuna to fight because I desire these men be killed. If that's not violence in the name of God's wish I can't image what would be. I don't think your short scriptural history says much of anything except that men tend to advocate whatever they're into. Like the Americans first pushed Christianity on everyone and now that they're into science and it is the new religion. How quick the BTG was disregard Prabhupada's wishes in favor of their own!

Gauracandra, You seem to be off on a tangent. Indeed, I detect more foolishness in your solicitations than liberalism. This hints of Mayavadism - everything is the same. What many devotees are pointing out here is that Lord Caitanya is a unique entity. So are many of the other individuals in Vedic history. Are you seriously comparing Lord Caitanya or Krsna to Jesus Christ for instance? You have certain qualities which cause you to think you're doing better than some but not as well as others. The glories and qualities of Vedic personalities have no comparison in the world. There are a few counterparts, but no comparisons. They are the personalities who imbibed and enunciated the highest spiritual and philosophical truths. But they are no better than Western personalities? Is the Bhagavad-gita just another opinion? Is it just another option? The tradition of spiritual knowledge and philosophy in India expound the highest standards anywhere. Indeed, is there anything missing? Can you even image what more there could be? Now vaisnavas looking at Western literature can easily image what is lacking in that discipline. There are more mysteries than answers in Western theology. It requires alot of blind faith to adhere to their dogma. And it is dogma. If I just believe I'm saved. They don't know what the soul is, they deny it in lesser creatures, they simply pray for material gains, and they dogmatically insist that everyone should be as ignorant as they are. Now I'm only scratchng the surface here. Becasue of their lack of information and ignorance of higher principles, they are really quite intolerant of anything else. You have to get beyond Western conditioning to understand Krsna Consciousness. They are still stuck on the body. Many of them think Christ was God and that you can put God on a cross and kill Him. I mean come on. Just get off it. Bhagavad-gita begins where other religions end and that's just the ABC's of Vedic literature. Christ is basically a translation of Krsna. Right? But we don't know Krsna as Christ (no one called Krsna Christ in His time) and Prabhupada didn't teach us to chant Christ. It may be on some level all of God's names are equal. I'm really not so sure I unequivicolly accept that. But I do know we have been given a proceedure and process consistent within a proven discipline and we can't just start chanting Christ. I think Prabhupada said that for the benefit of the Christians and undoubtedly there is some truth to it. But if you think it is unequivocally the same then you'd feel right at home chanting Christ with the Christians. That was a mean thing to say but I couldn't resist. A trick of politicians being interviewed or debating is to keep talking so as to keep the listener attentive to his words and thereby think less of his opponent who gets lesser time. Prabhupada warned us not to read so much other literature.

Good answer theist. Well as far as the Pandavas pledging their own wife, it is well known that intense greed or anger or lust pollute the intelligence. When intelligence is lost, then memory, bewilderment etc. But I can see your point. Draupadi certainly had alot to say about it in the assembly of elders. But be mindful of who you are slandering. These are great souls who walked and talked with God in many intimate situations. Is that not the qualifications of pure devotees? In the Mahabharata they might easily be taken to be ordinary lusty kings and such, but in the Bhagavatam their true identity as pure devotees is revealed. There are many instances in the Mahabharata where different individuals would describe the whole affair as simply fate or destiny or time or the play of the supreme. That it all happened the way it did by way of God's plan is the consenses among devotees by way of the parampara. The answer that it was God's wish is always unsatisfactory. No. It depends on time and circumstances as anything does. Now anything can be abused. People abused religion, politics, medicine, law - everything. I mean what don't people abuse. They abuse their bodies. The greatest attrocities in modern history have been commited by Hitler and Stalin. Actually, the genocide of the American Indians was pretty bad too. Now those were not religious wars. People just tend to exploit whatever power structures exists. But it is not religion at fault. Rather it is abuse of religion by unscrupulous persons who attempt to justify their own explotations. And yes, there are people who really don't have such a good understanding of religion or God and yet don't hesitiate to propagate their blind faith on others. It is a problem. But philosophically, it is because God is there that 'anything' can be justified absolutely because that absolute point is the standard by which all things are measured. One reason people deny God is so that they can promote themselves and their own standards. If there is no God, if there is no ultimately authority then everything is relative. That means my idea is just as valid as yours even if it is in opposition. From here it quickly degenerates to might makes right and law of the jungle. Now you try to justify morality without God as you mentioned. Governments can't do it, neither can scientists or philosophers. All they can do is make some social contract. And all that comes down to is that we shall all agree to collectively act this way. So what? These floating ethics are always bending and changing and we can practically see they work for the Americans, Hitlers and Stalins who themselves put strict moral standards on the hoards while they themselves do anything. These double standards are practically killing the world. Hare Bol!

This is my understanding. Perhaps it's not so refined. First of all, understand that nature or God is killing us all. If you are in doubt as to a proper action, then caution or even inaction may suit you best. It is also unphilosophical or rational to suggest that if you don't know, 'no one knows'. You have to have the knowledge to judge whether someone else knows about a particular subject or not. You can't judge whether someone is a charlatan or actually knows unless you have the knowledge already. Am absurd example of this is the material scientists who only know a tiny bit of reality and yet do not hesitate to make statements about the totality of reality, ie. there is no God. You might have a very different perspective if (God forbid) you or your wife (if it applies) were violently attacked. True empathy is a rare thing in an egocentric world.

This is a great idea. This is the fabric of the scriptures themselves. Unfortunately, I don't have anything to offer. But I got your number though!

This is a great idea. This is the fabric of the scriptures themselves. Unfortunately, I don't have anything to offer. But I got your number though!

Good answer ndas. Also, there is no 'eternal hell'. God's original desire is for us to enjoy with him through transcendental rasas. Rejecting this, the souls are allowed to exorcise their free will in the material world of which hell is a part. Eventually - maybe after an 'eternity' - the persons consciousness finally comes to the right conclusion about his position in the kingdom of God. Then he is allowed to return to the spiritual world from which he came. This allows for free will and fulfills the origianal desire of an omnipotent God. Can an omnipotent God's desire ever be frustrated? Perhaps you're taking the term 'eternal' in an absolute sense. I can remember from the Mahabharata that so many warriors were described as the best fighter or that various princesses were the most beautiful. Literally, they can't all be 'the best'. That's not the way the material world is set up. If everyone or many are the best, then no one is best. So it must be that these descriptions are to create extreme perspectives within us which we would otherwise consider to be ordinary - let's say - on the ladder of extremes.

Uh Prabhupadanuga, I believe this response should be under 'Prabhupada Copyrights'. Maybe this message board has artificial intelligence or something like that. Perhaps you just made a mistake which I make plenty of myself. Anyway, thanks for the tip. It would be useful if you could provide me with a web address or phone number. I'm only looking to find out about the volumes in public domain - which I know Hamsadutta can answer.

Yes, this concerned me before too. What I have understood from authorities is that violence is a valid spiritual principle. Force is necessary where good arguments fail and opposing elements must be dealt with. Isn't it a natural law that one is to be punished for crimes or sins - even on the material plane? How and where violence is applied lies with the person in knowledge. A king or government is supposed to know what the Lord's desire is. If a soldier is serving a gov't who is carrying out the Lord's order, there is no karmic reaction because after all one is acting on the highest authority. However, if the gov't is unqualified or otherwise sectarian and engages in death and distruction for personal or extended gain, then the participants - individual or collective - are liable for karmic reactions. On a very basic level, it is the individual responsibility of every soul to find out and understand what is to be accepted and rejected, what moral codes are and what is to be done. And it is religion which ultimately deals with this field and expands man's capacity to ultimately know the quality and purpose of everything. In this way we are the same as God. Where we differ is in quantity.

This is written by an ex temple president and is a revealing chronology of ISKCON management history. This essay specifically deals with the changing of Prabhupada's intentions and the consolidation of power. It appears to be very objective and nonconfrontational. It is 20 printed pages directly online, but well worth the reading effort. http://www.harekrsna.com/vada/nugas/manage.htm

This is written by an ex temple president and is a revealing chronology of ISKCON management history. This essay specifically deals with the changing of Prabhupada's intentions and the consolidation of power. It appears to be very objective and nonconfrontational. It is 20 printed pages directly online, but well worth the reading effort. http://www.harekrsna.com/vada/nugas/manage.htm

I have heard through the grapevine that all of Prabhupada's original works (created in his lifetime) is now in the public domain. Does anybody have any details on this and specifically which books and volumes this time span covers?

Hare Krsna! Ok, here it is. This is 'material life' on a bumper sticker! The man is thinking, let me enjoy this beautiful woman. The woman is thinking, let me control this man.

I have heard through the grapevine that all of Prabhupada's original works (created in his lifetime) are now in the public domain (due to failure of renewing copyright registration). Does anybody have any details on this and specifically which books and volumes this time span covers? My understanding is that Hamsadutta's lawsuit brought this to light. Can anyone provide his contact info?