ethos

I'm sorry. I was just adding a post and I suddenly felt "inspired" to challenge the "staus quo". I know this may alienate people. On the one hand, I percieve a religious tolerance for other religions on this board which I agree with. Yet there are expressed views that go so far as to suggests that any sincere devotee of a "Western faith" can attain God: spiritual life is not exclusive and no one has a monopoly on God. Gauracandra is a popular advocate of such beliefs and he has many sympathizers by evidence of his supporters that respond with their empathy. Now, we very well know that "Western religions" do not have an organized or "official" parampara sytem of disseminating knowledge which authorizes proper reception on a person by person basis. On the other hand, we have many––and some of the same––proponents that argue for a direct link to disseminating knowledge within the "Eastern" Vedic tradition: it is absolutely necessary to be "officially" subservient by accepting an authorized spiritual master to advance in spiritual life. Besides the parampara tradition, even the Rtvik's concerns center around this issue. Now one and all, please give me the "politically correct" view––especially those of you who espouse both––by which I must simultaneously accept an independently subjective connnection on the one hand and a necessary authorized link on the other with regard to this duality concerning religious tolernace. If I'm not a heretic yet, let me commit myself: Prabhupada said his only fault was accepting so many unqualified disciples. I have added this simply to point out that "official" doesn't necessarily mean qualified. Conversely, it is generally accepted that we learn from one who knows. So where's the standard?

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes sees matter operating like a machine under mechanical laws. The sum total of all motion in the world is always constant; it neither increases nor decreases. However, he claims that the soul is unaffected by mechanical causes and is therefore immortal. Srila Prabhupada: Yet somehow or other he has been put into this mechanical process. Syamasundara dasa: Yes, and this was Descartes’s problem. He could not understand how spirit and matter interact, how the nondimensional, nonextended spirit can have a three dimensional body. Srila Prabhupada: When you are on the land and fall into the water, your struggle begins. This means that on land you are safe, but somehow or other you have fallen into this material struggle. Spirit is spirit, and matter is matter, but now they have come into contact with one another. We have caused this contact because we have misused our independence. A boy may stand firmly beside the water, but if he wants to enjoy the water, he may fall in. If he cannot manage to swim, he is lost. This is our position. The spirit soul has a body, and his business is to enjoy life, but because he falls within the jurisdiction of matter, he cannot enjoy his labor. As long as he is within water, there is no possibility of happiness. Syamasundara dasa: Does the spiritual body have dimensions? Does it exist in space? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, it has dimensions. It has length, breadth, and everything. Otherwise, how can we say that it is one ten-thousandth of the tip of a hair? In other words, there is measurement, but that measurement is beyond our imagination. The soul is something different. It is inconceivable. If the spirit soul has no body, how can the material body develop? A material body is like a coat molded in the form of the spiritual body. You cannot make a dress without measuring the body. Syamasundara dasa: Then the spiritual body is very small? Srila Prabhupada: You cannot image it. Because the materialists cannot see or measure the spiritual body, they say that it does not exist. Syamasundara dasa: Descartes says that the soul exists, but not that it occupies space. Srila Prabhupada: This means that his conception of space is limited. The material body is a body that has a beginning and an end. Your coat is made at a certain date. The spiritual body is changing dress from one material body to another, just as you change your clothes. Syamasundara dasa: After the soul has fallen into matter, can it be delivered through proper knowledge? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is the purpose of this Krsna consciousness movement. Even if a person is an expert swimmer, how long can he swim? He will eventually succumb because he is in a fallen condition. However, if one is elevated just one inch above the water, he is immediately safe. The water may remain in its position, but he is transcendental to it. This transcendental position is Krsna consciousness. Syamasundara dasa: In other words, the spirit soul can rise above matter, above the water. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, just like a flying fish. This fish may swim within the water, but suddenly he may fly over it. As soon as you become Krsna conscious, you can fly over the water of material existence. Then you can gradually come to land. Syamasundara dasa: If the spirit soul is unlimited and has unlimited power, how does he fall within matter? Srila Prabhupada: It does not have unlimited power. Its power is so great that in the material Syamasundara dasa: How is it able to be confined by something as limited as a body? Srila Prabhupada: I have already explained this. It is like falling into the water. As spirit soul, we have nothing to do with this material body, but somehow or other we have come into contact with it. There is a cause, but instead of finding out this cause, we should realize that we are in a dangerous position. Syamasundara dasa: But if the spirit has great power, and the body has limited power, how is it that this limited power is able to hold onto the great power, to capture it and keep it? Srila Prabhupada: The material energy is Krsna’s energy, and each and every energy of Krsna is as great as Krsna. Therefore Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita: “This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.” (Bg. 7.14) Syamasundara dasa: In other words, it is sometimes stronger than the spiritual energy? Srila Prabhupada: When you come into contact with the material energy without a specific purpose, it is stronger. Krsna’s representative comes into the material energy in order to preach. Although he is within the material energy, he is not under its control. But if you come in contact with material energy without serving Krsna’s purpose, you suffer. For instance, in a jail ther are may superintendents and government officials. There are also prisoners. However, their conditions differ. We cannot say that because they are all in jail that they are all suffering in the same way. The superintendent is there because he is serving the government’s purpose. Therefore he is not subject to the laws of the jail. when you are in the serive of Krsna, you are no longer under the laws of maya. You are liberated. Syamasundara dasa: So the prisoners who have forgotten their real service have been weakened? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, beause they have disobeyed and have forgotten their subordinate position. They want to be independent of the state, and therefore they have been put into jail. Syamasundara dasa: Then for them, the material energy is stronger. Srila Prabhupada: Yes. It is stronger for them. Those who are conditioned and are serving the material energy cannot escape through their own endeavor. They are dependent on the mercy of Krsna and His representatives.

JNdas, I am not discovering your many essays in the letters to the editor section. It just occured to me that you may call it "Letters to the Editor" because you respond the questions by previous visitors. I was thinking how the title was strange in that the essays were all originated by you. But now I guess it makes sense. I noticed that there are no replies on the essays. And I wonder why. If someone has a question regarding the material found in this section, where does he post his inquiry? By the way, I am thoroughly enjoying the essays and learning alot. Your friend, Hare Bol!

I believe if you take the trouble to register you can send private messages among other things.

Recently, there was a thread "karma @ the root..." about the soul's original fall into the material world. It made me think of this thread I never acted on. Then again, I came across a related topic under Dialectic Spiritualism 2: "Five Inherent Ideas" (see idea 3) . So, again, I am reminded to share this account with you. If there is such a thing as "spiritual fiction," this is it. This story came to me by way of inquiring into the eternal nature of spiritual bodies and what happens to them when we come to the material world. It is an "unauthorized" anecdote and thus I call it fiction here. Still, it is wholy consistent with Vaisnava philosophy and knowledge. It may very will be true! This anecdote certainly made an impression with me. I hope you enjoy it. It is short and sweet. Like any good story, it's easy to visually personalize it to your tastes. (Forgive me for preaching a little bit below, but it's useful to explain the story). Some living entities in the spiritual world – such as ourselves – are known to promote themselves in the material world. The experience may center around something like this. We all know the term "bhoga" which is basically something not offered to Krsna. So, in this example a living entity is offering a goblet of nectar to the Lord in an assembly of his associates in the spiritual world. Lets say this attendant perceives the Lord as the supreme enjoyer of so many facilities and the cenosure of all eyes. And for a moment, he happens to think that he really wants to enjoy the goblet contents for himself. In this subtle, but concrete way--without grossly thinking about directly replacing Krsna--one can effectively put oneself--his needs or desires-- before the supreme being. Philosophically, it is but a small leap from this point to want Krsna's position. Spiritual life means favorable service to the Lord embued with love (I did say love, Theist). And any mentality that ultimately translates into a different program consitutes one as a dissedent thief. Having the mentality of a criminal, we are immediately put into the prison of the material world, where we can fantasize to our heart's content. But life without Krsna is just that . . . life without Krsna--it comes with all the pitfalls of material existence. Here we go through endless cycles of reincarnation on the great wheel of samsara, sometimes up, sometimes down; but basically everyone gets the same amount of thrills. We stay here until our mentality is eventually reformed to accept the guidance and superiority of the Lord––to irrevocably realize what the center and purpose of our existence is––until our service is again voluntarily established. At that time we can return to our eternal position in the spiritual sky. Now in this example, having finally returned, the living entity just keep extending his hand to offer the goblet to the Lord! It is as if he never left! Nothing "happens" to our spiritual bodies as we fall to the material platform--we are still there performing our duties without a noticeable disruption in our spiritual pastimes as far as most observers are concerned. Our whole material experience involving time and our free will is just a personal thing between the soul and God. An Interesting pastime supporting these ideas are given in Bhagavatam 12.9 by Srila Prabhupada: Markandeya Rsi Sees the Illusory Potency of the Lord.

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes considers five basic ideas to be inherent within every man, ideas which every man knows without having to verify. One is that God is innate to us as our own soul. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, this is because we are part and parcel of God. For instance, in the material world, everyone knows that he has a father. This is common knowlege. Syamasundara dasa: Secondly, it is impossible for something to originate out of nothing; every effect must have a cause, and therefore there is a cause of everything. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we have discussed this. That ultimate cause is Krsna. We do not accept the Mayavadi philosophy because they philosophize in a negative way to try to make the ultimate truth zero. Syamasundara dasa: Thirdly, it is impossible for a thing to exist and not exist at the same time. Srila Prabhupada: Who protests this? Who says that something can exist and not exist simultaneously? Who is he trying to refute? Syamasundara dasa: He is not refuting anyone. He says that this is an innate idea that we kow for certain without having to verify. Srila Prabhupada: This body is a temporary manifestation, and this soul is always existing. Eventually, this body will not exist, but the owner of the body is eternal and existing eternally. If something is a temporary manifestation, we can say that it is simultaneously existing and not existing. On the material platform, everything is existing and not existing because it is temporary. for instance we are existing in this room right now, but at the next moment we may no be existing. The whole cosmic manifestation is like that. As stated in Bhagavad-gita: “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent thre is no cessatin. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both.” (Bg. 2.16) Because the soul is never created, the soul never dies. Everything that is born must die. Syamasundara dasa: Descartes’s forth innate idea is that whatever is done can never be undone. Srila Prabhupada: Karma cannot be undone. However, it can change. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna tells us to abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Him. If we do so, He will relieve us of all the reactions of karma. (Bg. 18.66) So in this sense it is not a fact that what is done cannot be undone. Syamasundara dasa: Descartes is thinking in the realm of the physical. After I throw a ball, that ball can never be unthrown. Srila Prabhupada: That is a child’s knowledge, not a philosopher’s. Direct perception is childish. A child believes so many things by direct perception. I remember that when I first saqw a train in Calcutta, I thought that within the engine there must have been horses, otherwise the train could not have run. This kind of thinking was not really philsophy. Of course, it is part of philosophy because all philosophers are nature’s children. Therefore they think in that way. Syamasundara dasa: Descartes fifth principle is that we cannot be nonexistent as long as we are thinking. Srila Prabhupada: We have already discussed this. Everyone thinks, and therefore everyone is a soul.

Hayagriva dasa: Descartes writes: “I know that brutes do many things better than we do, but I am not surprised at it; for that also goes to prove that they act by force of nature. If they could think as we do, they would have have an immortal soul as well as we. But this is not likely, because there is no reason for believing it of some animals without believing it of all, and there are many of them too imperfect to make it possible to believe it of them, such as oysters, sponges, etc.” Srila Prabhupada: First of all, living entities do not act by force of nature, but by force of God. Even in the heart of the brute, God is also present. God is within all, and He gives us instructions so that we can advance. When we attain the platform of human life, we have the alternative to refuse God’s instructions. Lower life forms do not have the power to refuse. Hayagriva dasa: You have just said that whatever grows has a soul, including the grass. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, in a dormant stage. For instance, a child has a soul, but it is not yet developed because the body is not yet developed. According to the body and circumstances, the soul acts.

I switched to Netscape 6 because I can edit and rename my bookmarks and I'm more familiar with it. It also displays the type better and makes it alot easier to read the message texts. When I signed it, all "lightbulbs" were updated to my most recent events. That's some database you got there JNdas. Hari Bol! Everything looks great! Thanks for your help!

JNdas, Now that's the way I like it... uh huh.. uh huh... uh huh! Thankyou so much for your attention to this matter. Looks perfect!

Syamasundara dasa: First of all, Descartes tried to find some basis for truth. Then he came to the proof of the existence of God. As far as philosophy is concerned, he maintained that it lacks certainty and that its tenets are always subject to dispute. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we agree with that. It is said that a philosopher is not a philosopher unless he differs from other philosophers. If one is to be a great philosopher, he has to defy all his predecessors. Scientists also work in the same way. If we try to find out whose statement is true, we have a great deal of difficulty. Therefore the Vedic sastras enjoin that we follow the personalitites who have realized God, and therefore we follow Prahlada Maharaja, Dhruva Maharaja, Vyasadeva, Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, Kapila-deva, the twelve mahajanas, and their followers, the follower’s of Brahma’s disciplic succession, the Brahma-sampradaya, the Rudra-sampradaya, the Visnusvami-sampradaya, the Ramanuja-sampradaya, ans so on. If we follow the acaryas in the disciplic succession, our path is clear. Syamasundara dasa: Descartes felt that because science is based on philosophical principles which have no basis in themselves, science is not worthy of our cultivation. He condemns people for using scientific technology to make more money. He said, “I am resolved no longer to seek any science other than knowledge of myself.” Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but he had no guru. Syamasundara dasa: No, he didn’t accept a guru. He accepted only what he could know through self-realization, the innate truths that he discovered in himself by meditation. First, he came to the understanding that I am, and later he concluded that because I am, God is. Srila Prabhupada: That is a nice conclusion. Syamasundara dasa: He had an obsession for the need of absolute certainty because he felt that all the conclusions of the philosopheres before him were dubious. He believed that every idea must be subjected to doubt until the truth or falsity can be ascertained, just as a mathematical formula can be ascertained. Every idea must be subjected to cross examination. Srila Prabhupada: But when will these doubts be finished? Your standard of understanding self-evident truths may be diffrent from mine. So what is the standard? He must give some standard. Syamasundara dasa: When Descartes meditated on the first philosophy, he concluded, cogito ergo sum, “I think, therefore I exist.” He felt that everything was subject to doubt with the exception of the act of doubting itself. since doubting is a part of thinking, the act of thinking is an undeniable experience. therefore he concluded that because I doubt, I think, and because I think, I exist. Srila Prabhupada: That is a good argument. If I do not exist, how can I think? But is he condmning doubt or accepting doubt? What is his position? Syamasundara dasa: He accepts doubt as the only real fact. Because I can doubt that my hand exists, it may be a hallucination, a dream, I can doubt that everything perceived exists because it may all be a dream, but the fact that I am doubting cannot be doubted. Srila Prabhupada: So what is his conclusion? Should one stop doubting or continue doubting? If I doubt everything, I may come to the truth and then doubt the truth. Syamasundara dasa: His point is that the truth cannot be doubted, but that to discover the truth, we have to doubt everything. When we come to the truth, the truth will be undoubtable. Srila Prabhupada: But how do you come to the truth if your business is simply doubting? How will you ever stop doubting? Syamasundara dasa: Well, I cannot doubt that I am, I exist. That truth is undoubtable. So he proceeds from there to the fact that since I exist, God exists. Srila Prabhupada: Then his point is that by doubting, we come to a point where there is no more doubt. That is good. doubt in the beginning, then the truth as the conclusion. But in any case, that doubt must be resolved. I doubt becasue I am imperfect and because my knowledge is imperfect. So another question is how we can obtain perfection. As long as we are imperfect, there will be doubt. Syamasundara dasa: He says that even though I am imperfect, there exists perfect knowledge, or a self-conscious awareness of perfect ideas within myself. Knowledge of the perfect is innate within me, and I can know it through meditation. Srila Prabhupada: That is also acceptable. Syamasundara dasa: Because I understand that I think, I can establish existence of my soul beyond all doubt. Srila Prabhupada: Everyone thinks. Everyone is there, and everyone has a soul. There are countless souls, and this has to be accepted.

I'm finding sometimes it works with a grey background and sometimes with the blue. It seems to randomly change. I want the grey background permanent.

I keep coming up with hits on personalities with the above search criterion or commentary from Prabhupada's purports, but little on direct verses. How about Theist's idea? I'll provide input later if I come across something.

I came across several verses around Adi-lila 7.120. Hey, what about that Bhattacaraya (was that his name?) who was the leading proponent at the time whom Lord Caitanya defeated. Isn't there dialog there? I'll run your suggestions.

I'm trying to do searches on my Vedabase, but I come up with Advaita Prabhu, part of the Pancha-tattva. "Advaita conception" brings up those words in same paragraph, but not as a phrase. If you care to provide me with specific keywords to try, maybe I can find it that way.

JNdas, I'm trying to update my avatar by deleting it and then uploading a modified new one but I see no change. What am I doing wrong? The file name is nearly identical--but it is different (with the addition of 4 characters)--could that be the root of the problem? Or is it not possible to change it once uploaded? I have tried simply deleting the avatar--then the browser displays correctly when I go back to the forum to see if the avatar has been deleted. But when I then try to upload the modified avatar--nothing happens (the same old icon reappears).

Also from Dialectic Spiritualism: Hayagriva dasa: Descartes further writes: “I see that the certainty in truth of all knowledge depends on knowledge of the true God, and that before I knew Him I could have no perfect knowledge of any other thing. And now that I know Him, I have a means of acquiring a perfect knowledge of innumerable things… ” Descartes goes on to concude that since God is all good. He would not deceive him in matters pertaining to the Godhead. Srila Prabhupada: If he follows God’s instructions and has real knowledge of God, he will never be mislead, but if he selects a false God, or if he has not meet the real God, he is subject to being mislead. To save him from this danger, God imparts instructions in Bhagavad-gita. Whoever follows these instructions will be perfect. If we receive knowledge of the soul from God, there is no chance in being mistaken. As soon as we think in our own way, we are subject to error becasue we are imperfect and finite. Krsna precisely says that the soul is within the body, and if we accept this, we can immediately understand that the soul is different from the body. Krsna says that the owner of the body is the soul within the body, and immediately the false impression that one is the body, which is a fool’s conclusion, should be eradicated. The light is there, but those who do not accept it prefer to live as fools and speculate.

Hayagriva dasa: In the same Meditations on First Philosophy, Descartes writes: “It is not in truth an imperfection in God that He has given me the freedom of assenting or not assenting to things of which He has not placed a clear and distinct knowledge in my understanding. On the other hand, it is an imperfection in me that I do not use this freedom right… ” But then, why doesn’t God give us the understanding by which we can choose properly in all cases? Why can’t we have free will and at the same time infallible judgement? Srila Prabhupada: Free will means that you can act wrongly. Unless there is a chance of your acting properly or improperly, there is no question of free will. If I only act in one way, I have no freedom. We have freedom because we can sometimes act improperly. Hayagriva dasa: In other words, freedom means that a man may know better, yet still act wrongly? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is free will: the freedom to misuse free will. A thief may know that stealing is bad, yet he steals. That is his free will in action. He cannot check his greed, despite his knowing that he is acting improperly and that he will be punished. He knows all the repercussions that result from stealing, yet he steals and misuses his free will. So unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom.

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes also believed that we should carefully choose the life work which is best for our personal selves. Srila Prabhupada: Well, if you are given that freedom, a drunkard will say that the best thing is to drink and sleep. Everyone has his own program, which he thinks is the best. So who will judge what is best? According to Vivekananda’s philosophy, whatver philosophy you select is all right. That is nonsense.

The direct meanings here are obvious, but there are several hidden meanings as well relating to this topic for those who can read between the lines. From Dialectic Spiritualism: Syamasundara dasa: Descartes also suggested rules of conduct which everyone should follow. He felt that we should obey the laws and customs of our nation, religious faith, and family tradition, and should avoid extreme behavior. Srila Prabhupada: That is a good proposal. Actually, family tradition is respected in Vedic civilization. In Bhagavad-gita, Arjuna argues: “With the destruction of dynasty, the eternal family tradition is vanquished, and thus the rest of the family becomes involved in irreligious practice.” (Bg. 1.39) This means that Arjuna was respecting family tradition, but Krsna pointed out that his consideration was material. It really has no spiritual value. Therefore Krsna chastised Arjuna, telling him that he was situated on the material platform. Arjuna wa lamenting over things for which a learned man does not lament. So, perhaps Descartes made these propositions for ordinary men,, but they are not for those who are highly elevated or spiritually advanced. Syamasundara dasa: Descartes considered these practical rules for daily conduct. He also believed that we should stand by the convictions we have formed and be resolute in the course of action we have chosen. Srila Prabhupada: This could also be a dog’s obstinacy. However, if our final conclusion is true, then this obstinacy is nice. But if we have not reached the final goal, the Absolute Truth, such obstinacy is an impediment to advancement. This should not be generally applied because in the neophyte stage, we must be flexible. In the advanced stage, when we are firmly situated in truth, it is, of course, good to stand by our convictions. That is determination. For instance, we have understood that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No one can change us in this conviction. In the Christian system, they say that only Jesus Christ can help one go back to Godhead. That was meant for those whom Jesus Christ instructed because Jesus Christ saw that if the people left him, they would go to ruination. He saw that these inferior people had to stick to him in order to progress. Lord buddha rejected the Vedas, but this does not mean that Vedic authority is diminished. The men to whom he spoke were not able to understand the authority of the Vedas, and they were misusing the Vedic rituals. This is all relative truth, but Absolute Truth is different. Relative truth is within Absolute Truth, but Absolute Truth is independent of relative truth.

Friday, October 11, 2002 10:18 AM fboyle@law.uiuc.edu Francis A. Boyle: Bush's Banana Republic http://www.counterpunch.org/boyle1011.html George W. Bush was never elected President by the People of the United States of America. Instead, he was anointed for that Office by five Justices of the United States Supreme Court who themselves had been appointed by Republican Presidents. Bush Jr.'s installation was an act of judicial usurpation of the American Constitution that was unprecedented in the history of the American Republic. Had it occurred in a developing country, such a subversion of democratic process would have been greeted with knowing derision throughout the West. What happened in America could only be likened to a judicial coup d'etat inflicted upon the American People, Constitution, and Republic. There should now be no doubt that the United States Supreme Court is governed by raw, naked, brutal, power politics. Justice has nothing at all to do with it. This Supreme Court's constitutional sophistry proved a harbinger of the new administration's disrespect for the Rule of Law, whether domestic or international. BUSH JR.'S CONSTITUTIONAL COUP D'ETAT From the Supreme Court's installation of Bush Jr. as President to the Ashcroft/Federalist Society post-September 11 regime of police state "laws," the politico-legal functioning of America is increasingly resembling that of a Banana Republic. Since September 11th, we have seen one blow against the U.S. Constitution after another. For example, Attorney General John Ashcroft unilaterally instituted the monitoring of attorney-client communications despite the Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and seizures and the Sixth Amendment right to representation by Counsel in criminal cases. He just went ahead and did it, without even bothering to inform anyone. Over 1100 aliens have been picked up and "disappeared" by Ashcroft and his Department of Injustice. The American People have no idea where most of these people are. They are being held on the basis of immigration law, not criminal law, for a period of detention which has not been defined. Ashcroft proclaimed another ukaze that these immigration proceedings must be held in secret. The phenomenon of "enforced disappearances" is considered to be a crime against humanity by Article 7(I)(i) of the Rome Statute for the International Criminal Court. It appears that many of these aliens have been deprived of their basic human rights to consular notification and access as set forth in the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, to which the United States is a contracting party and which even the U.S. State Department concedes constitutes binding customary international law. Apparently Bush Jr.'s left hand does not care about what his right hand does. Yet another international convention set at naught. The one characteristic these detained foreigners have in common is that they are mostly Muslims, Arabs, and Asians. Everyone needs a scapegoat for the 11 September tragedy, and it looks like we have one, both at home and abroad. Thousands more such aliens are being moved into the pipeline for the Ashcroft gulag by the FBI. Ashcroft is now planning to reinstate the infamous COINTELPRO Program, whose atrocities against the civil rights and civil liberties of the American People have been amply documented elsewhere. It is just a matter of time before the Bush Jr. Leaguers unleash the newly-augmented powers of the FBI, CIA and NSA directly against the American People. And we already have 2 million Americans rotting away in prison -- the highest rate of incarceration in the world, a disproportionate majority of whom are Americans of Color, victims of the Nixon/Ford, Reagan/Bush, and Clinton administrations' racist "war on drugs," which is really a war against People of Color. The American Police State has already arrived for People of Color! ASHCROFT'S POLICE STATE This brings the analysis to the Ashcroft Police State Act. There are no other words to describe it. While Bush failed to get a formal declaration of war that would have rendered him a constitutional dictator, clearly Attorney General John Ashcroft and his right-wing Federalist Society lawyers took every piece of regressive legislation off the shelf, tied it all into what they called an anti-terrorism bill, and then rammed it through Congress, giving it the appropriately Orwellian name of the <U.S.A>. Patriot Act. According to one report, Ashcroft's first draft would have had Congress suspend the ancient Writ of Habeas Corpus - the necessary prerequisite for imposing a police state in the United States of America. Many Members of Congress publicly admitted that they did not even bother to read the Ashcroft Police State Act. Another Congressman said basically: "Right, but there's nothing new about that." Interestingly enough the so-called liberal Democrats in the House and the Senate were willing to give Bush Jr. and Ashcroft more police state powers than the conservative Republicans in the House. But there are no real differences that matter between Republicans and Democrats when it comes to promoting America's self-proclaimed "Manifest Destiny" to control the World and now Outer Space too. BUSH'S KANGAROO COURTS It would take an entire law review article for me to analyze all the legal and human rights problems with the Bush Jr.'s proposed military commissions. Here a cabal of Federalist Society Lawyers in the White House got President Bush to sign an Executive Order on 13 November 2001 which, when implemented, will be widely recognized to constitute a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions and establish a prima facie case of criminal accountability against the President himself. It is emblematic of this particular war that right towards its very outset President George W. Bush personally incriminated himself under both international criminal law and United States domestic criminal law. The Bush Jr. administration has severely undermined the integrity of the Four Geneva Conventions of 1949. By doing this, the Bush Jr. administration has opened up U.S. Armed Forces and civilians around the world to similar reprisals, which has already happened. As a licensed attorney for 25 years, a law professor for 23 years and someone who has done a good deal of criminal defense work in U.S. Federal Courts, I am appalled by the insinuation of these Federalist Society Lawyers that America's Federal Courts established by Article III of the U.S. Constitution cannot hold accountable those responsible for the crimes of 11 September 2001. This is an insult to all Federal Judges, Federal Prosecutors, Federal Public Defenders and all the Lawyers who are Officers of these Courts. In one fell stroke these Federalist Society lawyers have besmirched and undermined the integrity of two Branches of the United States Federal Government established by the Constitution - the Presidency and the Judiciary. So far the U.S. Congress has supinely gone along with the Bush Jr. police state agenda. If and when these Bush/Ashcroft police state practices make their way to the U.S. Supreme Court, many of them will probably be upheld. After all, a 5 to 4 majority of the Supreme Court already gave the Presidency to Bush Jr. We need to seriously consider whether they would strike down laws and practices that would give Bush Jr. a Police State as well. Philosophers have taught that a People get the type of government they deserve. If the American People permit the Bush Jr. Leaguers to impose a Police State at home in the name of furthering Pax Americana abroad, we will have deserved it by abnegating our responsibilities as Citizens living in what is supposed to be a constitutional Republic with a commitment to the Rule of Law. The same thing happened to the Romans and to the Athenians. The United States of America is not immune to the laws of history. Sic transit gloria mundi! Francis A. Boyle, Professor of Law, University of Illinois, is author of Foundations of World Order, Duke University Press, and The Criminality of Nuclear Deterrence, Clarity Press. He can be reached at: FBOYLE@LAW.UIUC.EDU

Syamasundara dasa: Descartes worked with a four-part methodology which is now called Cartesian methodology. First of all, one is never to accept anything as true which is not known truly and distinctly to be true. Srila Prabhupada: Of course it is commendable not to accept anything blindly, but if you do not have the intelligence to understand, you have to consult one who is intelligent. Syamasundara dasa: He felt that the truth must be as clear and distinct as mathematical proof. Srila Prabhupada: That is good provided one is a mathematician, but if one is a plowman, what can be understood about mathematics? Syamasundara dasa: According to Descartes, it was up to those who could understand mathematics to chalk out the truth and pass it on to those less intelligent. Srila Prabhupada: In other words, higher truth cannot be understood by everyone. We have to accept the truth from authorities. Therefore, we take the Vedas as truth. Sruti-pramanam. When the Vedas give evidence, we accept it whether we understand it or not. Syamasundara dasa: The second part of this methodology involved dividing the complex into simpler and simpler parts in order to arrive at a solution. In this way, the whole will be proved. Srila Prabhupada: But one must be expert in analysis. If I give you a typewriter to fix, and you know nothing about the machine, you will open it up, see all the parts, and not know how to adjust it. It is easy to open the machine up, but it is very difficult to adjust it. Syamasundara dasa: The third part involved arranging ideas from the simplest to the more complex according to the sequence of events. Srila Prabhupada: First of all, we must understand that we are spirit soul. That is the first step in our process. We must first understand ourselves and how we are existing despite these changes of bodies. We have to study ourselves as masters of our bodies. Then we can conclude that for the universal body there is another source. That is the Supersoul, or God Just as my body is existing due to my presence, the gigantic virat body exists due to the prescence of the Supersoul. Everything in the universe is constantly looking fresh and new; therefore there must be a large soul maintaining it. This is confirmed by the Vedas: aëò¢ntara-stha-param¢ëu-cay¢ntara-sthaà (Brahma-saàhit¢ 5.35). God is all-pervasive as Brahman, and He is also within the smallest atom. By His plenary expansion, god pervades the entire universe. According to the Vedas, there are different manifestations of God: Maha-visnu, Karanodakasayi-visnu, Garbhodakasayi-visnu, and Ksirodakasayi-visnu. What is the difficulty in understanding this? In large lamps and small lamps there is the same electricity. The Mayavadi philosophers consider only the similitude; they do not take the varieties into account. God is all-pervasive, but there is variety. Syamasundara dasa: The fourth part of Cartesian methodology involves taking into account the most detailed points and making sure that nothing is omitted. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is knowledge. For instance, we are considering the details when we consider the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourselves. Syamasundara dasa: And we can place everything in the scheme of Krsna’s creation? Srila Prabhupada: Yes, Krsna says aham sarvasya prabhavah. “I am the origin of all.” (Bg. 10.8) Krsna says that He is the bjia, the seed or soul, the spiritual spark of all living entities.

I can't do it without looking it up. But then that would be cheating.

Yes, God is doing everything. But you also have the ability to act––just as God does. Are we all just some big cosmic plasma or something that pretends to disagree for God knows what reason? Do runners competing in a race just pretend to compete? No, there really are successes and failures. Man proposes and God disposes. Prabhupada: The soul is finite Brahman, and the infinite Brahman is God. I never suggested ultimate control, I just said we have our little successes. Hey, what topic were we talking about?

Shiva, the nature of this question is something that alot of people ask. I have asked it before in a different context. And it has great relevance to everyone. It's true that we cannot possibly know of our own particular circumstances related to our original fall with the limitations of our material psyche. Still, I think it warrants a look. This topic lies at the heart of our karmic journey and our purpose in life. I think you're being overintelligent to simply blow it off. It is natural for man to "want to know" and "seek the best." And theoretically, we can know the quality and purpose of everything––because we are parts of God. If we are spiritually motivated to find deeper meanings concerning reality it reaffirms and supports our faith. And too, others may be satisfied where you are not. What can be the harm in this investigation?

Vsdprasad, the spiritual world is "basically" the same there as it is here. The existential context of our environment, paraphenalia and associates is the same there as it is here. The differences are in the jiva's sensitivity to our Lord Krsna (or one of His many expansions). it appears that there would have been some variations in the levels of these desires of individuals in the spiritual world before landing here. But what made those variations in the desire levels?... Yes, the particular circumstance based on our desire and actions towards the Lord––or maybe even one of His associates. Just as any crime here has particular circumstances surrounding motivation, so it is there. In the spiritual world, why didn't the lord use his powers to make the devotees have all desires except having a desire to enjoy separately. If this had happened, then everyone would've been blissful and the history of material suffering wouldn't have reached to this extent. Everything is perfect as it is. Maybe to have "all" His qualities––including the desire to Lord over material nature–– is necessary somehow to interact with him. Free will is required for love. It cannot be forced. There is meaning only in voluntary activity. Not much meaningful activity for the soldier to turn left, forward march and tent hut! Of course, the soldier is voluntarily surrendering the control of his actions. We would be little more than automatons without our free will or this quality for dissention. Prabhupada said one always has the free will to decide. Souls can cycle between the spiritual and material worlds as often as they like. There are no guarantees! Our dynamic relationship with God is just like with anyone else: it flourishes or becomes stagnant in relation to our interaction with Him.