Beggar

Who is Harold "Melvin" and the Bluenotes?

We are now trapped under the sticky mollases of sematics. "Anuga" means to follow. Raganuga bhaktas are therefore followers of ragatmika bhaktas. Of course the reason that they are following is to eventually attain such a position. We are also told in the Gaudiya Saraswat line that we are followers of the Six Goswamis or sad gosai. Krsna das Kaviraja ends each chapter of Caitanya Caritamrta, sri rupa-raghunatha-pade yara asa/caitanya caritamrta kahe krsnadasa. So then we find that the Gaudiya Saraswat line really follows or stresses Srila Rupa Goswami and his topmost follower Srila Raghunatha das Goswami and now we have come to the point of the Rupanuga conception. In that conception we are told that in our practicing life we will follow the teachings of Srila Rupa Goswami and that in our perfection, siddha swarupa we will follow him/her as Sri Rupa Manjari. So there is hierarchy everywhere. The prospect of the Gaudiya Saraswat line is not to become Srila Rupa Goswami/Sri Rupa Manjari but to become "like". In this sense "like" will never be equal although the quality will be very similar.

There maybe many ways to see the same subject, in this case - how we define the word tatastha in relation to the jiva and so on. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur said in the Bhagawat Speech, "no thought is a bad thought". On the other hand if our subjective viewpoint precludes a basic tenent of the Gaudiya Siddhanta such a the preminent nature of the ragatmika bhaktas of Vraja then we are making a major error. The idea of the free nature of love and how it must extend to all levels of Reality must be harmonized with the spiritual hierarchy in that "Land of Love" - Goloka or Vraja dhama. Otherwise all that remains is the worship of Krsna alone, without His principle Sakti and shaktis, the ragatmika bhaktas. Srila Sridhar Maharaja remarked that the worship of Krsna alone is "half-mayavada"? He narrates the story of how Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur met one gentleman who was alledged to be a big devotee of Krsna. Saraswati Thakur asked that man, "under what devotee are you serving" and the man remarked, "none, I have no need, I am serving Krsna directly". Later Saraswati Thakur told to some disciples after that man had left, "I could not trace out any devotion proper, there". Srila B.R. Sridhara Deva Goswami Maharaja also comments as follows:

Excellent research, Guruvani. Jaya jayate, bravo bravo, sadhu sadhu! The slokas and purports that you have quoted should convince any sincere person who is seeking the truth on this subject. The myth that the eternal servants of Bhagavan in the spiritual world are marginal is the underpinning of Sarva gattah's paradigm. Once the underpin is removed the rest of the paradigm collapses for it no longer has any basis. It seems that the correct understanding of the relationship of the material, marginal and spiritual energies (cit-sakti) serves as a basis for also viewing sakti-tattva in proper perspective. Then one can understand and accept the concept of Vaisnava seva or eternal service to the bhaktas, devotees. Without a clear understanding of these things the apex of all conceptions, that of Radha dasyam or divine service connection with Srimati Radharani and her serving camp can never become one's ideal. Srila Prabhupada states in a purport to Antya Lila 1.25 the following about himself: “Our only desire should be to take birth under the care of a Vaisnava. Fortunately we had the opportunity to be born of a Vaisnava father who took care of us very nicely. He prayed to Srimati Radharani that in the future we would become a servant of the eternal consort of Sri Krsna. Thus somehow or other we are now engaged in that service.”

Do you still think that the "gopi damsels of Vraja" are marginal jiva souls? Example of how sages became "gopi damsels of Vraja" in their next life: From Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 16,

Sarva gattah, What is the point you are making in your post? If you don't understand what Guruvani is saying then to be blunt, it does not seem that you are capable of abstract thinking:

Vasudeva and Devaki were not in "Goloka", as you are referring to Vrndavana or Vraja, they were in Mathura in Kamsa's jail. The earthly Goloka is actually known as Gokula. In Mathura, devotion to Krsna is covered with some aisvarya or opulence (awe and reverence) whereas in Vraja the devotees only love Krsna as a beautiful, young boy. In Mathura, Krsna was conceived in the pure citta or heart of Vasudeva and then transferred to the heart of Devaki. When Krsna appeared in Mathura he looked like a 16 year old boy and was fully clothed in royal dress with all kind of jewels. The Bhagavatam commentators say that this Krsna is only an expansion of the original Vraja Krsna I suggest that you read Krsna Book Vol. One, by Srila Prabhupada.

Mother Yasoda, Nanda Maharaja, Sridhama, Sudama, Madhumangal, Lalita, Tungavidya etc. are certainly not "mere jivas" (as one poster referred to them). It has been posted that they are "as good as Krsna".

In preaching their concepts some Vaisnavas say that there is no love in the material world. Some say there is love but it is only temporary. All the inhabitants of the spirtual world have loving relationships but they are based on Krsna prema or love of Krsna. This means that the inhabitants of the Vaikunthas all wish to please Bhagavan's senses rather than their own. This is compared in Srimad Bhavavatam to watering the roots of the tree rather than the leaves. By watering the root all the leaves are nourished while if the water only strikes and the root is deprived, all the leaves will dry up and fall from the tree. Krsna is the root of existence.

Compiled on the basis of the translations of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,

The Appearance of Lord Caitanya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada from a lecture at London's Conway Hall in November, 1969:

Everything in the spiritual world would appear to be the same as the material world to the casual dabbler in Krsna lila. So family relationships are there but the center is always Krsna. Are you really interested in an answer or are you begging the question?

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4.164 Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 4.165

Once upon a time, beyond time, the legislative body of Goloka passed a Civil Rights Act of Goloka making illegal to discriminate against those who were once baddha jivas. NOT!!! Sridhar Maharaja calls that plane "the land of love". We cannot approach there with the mentality, "no taxation without representation". He has also said, "The very nature of advancement is that I low, I am undone, I am the most helpless". So the nature of the superior souls in Goloka is that they are more humble and of a self sacrificing nature than we. We will say that Srila Prabhupada is more advanced and humble than ourselves but we can't afford the same honor to those who reside in the cinmaya region or the "land of gurus"? Every detail about the spiritual world cannot be grasped with our intellect. The Ecstasy Potency of the Divine by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja

Agreement Agreement

If you want to stop the "tit for tat" then I suggest that you take an honest approach and stop putting the above, concocted and self-manufactured quote that you place at the end of your posts. You cannot continue on a campaign where you only give one side an issue where you selectively embrace certain quotes from Srila Prabhupada and deny others as though they do not exist. Myself, Guruvani, and others have always addressed apparently opposite quotes and tried to harmonize them. Now you are avoiding this quote: Srimad Bhagavatam 3.7.9 Bhaktivedanta Purport, There's not much that you can say. It seems here Fall-Vada and Sleeper-Vad are summarily defeated in a Bhaktivedanta Purport.

This is from the cover of the 1982 First Edition. How can you be so ignorant as to cite the purport of S.B.11.11.8 and title it "Purport by Srila Prabhupada"? The purport is by the siddhantically deviated Hridayananda Maharaja. Anyone who is around his so-called disciples know that they still call him "acaryadeva". There has never been an apology for the obscene cover of the 1982 created by an upstart thirty-three old year sanyassi. Srimad Bhagavatam 3.7.9 Bhaktivedanta Purport, If you persist in denying the above quoted Bhaktivedanta Purport then you will continue to appear very foolish. By the way, most of the work attributed to Hridayananda Maharaja on the later cantos was actually done by Gopiparandhana Prabhu. Generally their translations and purports were quite accurate.

Notice that no sastric reference is given.

One of the definitions of the sanskrit word, "tata" is borderline. Another definition of tata is in between. How can a borderline not be thought of as a place? Srimad Bhagavatam 3.7.9 Bhaktivedanta Purport,

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Antya 3.78-79

Obviously there is an interwining of the karma of the perpetrators and the victims. Karmic reactions are very complex and the Supersoul arranges with His infinite consciousness for everyone to be "in the right place at the right time'. What is the karmic reaction for being a gurukula teacher and abusing the students? Just maybe in one's next life one will get abused as a child in a gurukula. We tend to be influenced by the moral judgements of western society. They will say, "no one deserves that..."; and then they will say, "enjoy as much as you can for you only live once!"

Srila Govinda Maharaja, of Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math on hearing of some of Srila Prabhupada's preaching statements told, "for the sake of preaching, sometimes pravacan (preaching) can cross siddhanta (devotional conclusions)". Sounds like a good description of what Prabhupada called, "transcendental trickery".

Srila Prabhupada's prominent godbrothers are all deceased (entered nity-lila) so they are not "on the scene". Their disciples are "on the scene".

Exactly where did you construe that statement from what has been written on any post on this thread?Time to stop looking so hard for faults, rather try to see the devotion.