Beggar

Ali G, "Respect". Redsox, much respect. Celtics, a little less. Bruins, no respect. Patriots, WOW! www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPQVew0L0Vg Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 7.8 raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu śabdaḥ khe pauruṣaḿ nṛṣu SYNONYMS rasaḥ — taste; aham — I; apsu — in water; kaunteya — O son of Kuntī; prabhā — the light; asmi — I am; śaśi-sūryayoḥ — of the moon and the sun; praṇavaḥ — the three letters a-u-m; sarva — in all; vedeṣu — the Vedas; śabdaḥ — sound vibration; khe — in the ether; pauruṣam — ability; nṛṣu — in men. TRANSLATION O son of Kuntī, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable oḿ in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.

??? Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.1. There is a famous Vedic aphorism often quoted by Srila Prabhpada, "Although I am one, I shall become many." The Lord by His sweet will desires to become many in order to engage in pastimes of love. Yet love must be free and not forced otherwise it is not love. Based on this Vedic aphorism and Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.1. we can see that even the creation, sustenance and destruction of the material world is a kind of lila or pastime of the Lord.

Theist appears to be trying to modify his first statement with the idea that if it is a dream then it is a real dream. Makes some sense, but the totality of material existence is Maha Visnu's dream. We need to be careful when we write or speak or others who don't know siddhanta will actually think that the world is false. Got to go. We always wash the hogs the evening before U.S. Thanksgiving.

Two Kinds of ISKCON Ecstatic Dancers: Leapers Leapers depend on strong hip, abodominal and upper body muscles. You need strong hips to hyperextend your legs and propel your body forward. Strong abdominal muscles and upper body allow you to throw yourself up into the air. Combine all three muscle movements to generate an upward and forward motion. Leapers take-off from their left leg (if they are right-handed), with some assistance from the right leg during the first step. Main muscle groups involved in this one-legged jump are : 10% Hips 50% Quadriceps (large muscle in front of the thighs) 15% Calves (large lump of muscle in the lower leg) 15% Hamstrings (large muscle behind the thigh) 10% Arms Jumpers Jumpers depend on strong thigh and calf muscles. You need strong hips to hyperextend your legs and propel your body forward. Strong abdominal muscles and upper body allow you to throw yourself up into the air. Combine all three muscle movements to generate an upward and forward motion. Main muscle groups involved in this two-legged jump are : 65% Quadriceps (large muscle in front of the thighs) 20% Calves (large lump of muscle in the lower leg) 15% Arms <table border="0" cellpadding="2" width="600"><tbody><tr><td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" width="600"> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" width="600"> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" width="600"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2"> The majority of muscles that act on the thigh (femur) originate on the pelvic (hip) girdle and insert on the femur. The psoas major (loin muscle) help flex the thigh laterally. This muscle is very difficult to strengthen as are all muscles that originate from the hip. The quadriceps femoris is the major muscles of the thigh. 50 to 65% of jumping power is generated by the quadriceps. </td> </tr> <tr> <td></td> <td>The hamstring muscle group consists of 4 different muscles. They are the bicep femoris, semitendinosus and semimembranosus. The hamstrings flexes the leg and also extends the thigh.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" width="600"> <tbody><tr> <td></td> </tr> <tr> <td>The calves produce 15 to 20% of the jumping power. The major muscle is the gastrocnemius (see above). Most great leapers have big feet and long tibias with calves bulging close to knee joint. Mechanically, this gives greater leverage and explosive power. </td> </tr> <tr> <td></td> </tr> </tbody></table> The foot is the most complex muscle structure in the body. Injuries such as torn ligaments, detached tendons, muscles and joints are difficult to heal. 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While these concepts certainly have a particular validity in an interesting angle of vision, they are not part of the ultimate devotional conclusion. I wrote in post #79, Conversly the idea that all of Krsna's servitors are already in Goloka and somehow inconceivably dreaming that they are here, naturally precludes the conception of dasa dasa nudas, servant of the servant of the servant. Such a concept democratizes the spiritual community of Krsna's servants and does not recognize the preeminent position of those who have never deviated from Krsna's service.

We've been around this block a thousand times in the last few months. There is no sastric basis for your theory just a few analogies given by Srila Prabhupada which are taken out of the context of the many opposite statements in his books. Go back and read all the posts and counter posts. Generally this thread is addressing the origin of the soul conception in an indirect way. The conception that the jiva souls are generated out of the tatastha sakti, which are also inconcievibly, theselves tatastha sakti and that there are divine servitors who never fall or "dream " that they fall is intrinsic to the concept of "servant of the servant".

This idea derives from the "nitya-siddha krsna prema" verse in Caitanya Caritamrta. But it has a particular meaning in a particular context. Also in Brhat Bhagavamrta Srila Sanatana Goswami has described how Krsna greets the "newcomer", the Gopa Kumar. Theoretically it would seem that we would be there in a flash but Brhat Bhagavamrta descibes the Gopa Kumar's sojourn home as unfolding in stages. Some of these stages take him to different parts of the Vaikunthas which are considered by "tatastha vicar", the objective viewpoint, to be lower than Vraja. Then there is his "return" described here: Loving Search For The Lost Servant, Inroduction, Srila Sridhar Maharaj,

Its more fun to talk about how high a young Danavir could jump in kirtans, anyway!

Come on man, you know that the spiritual concept of faultfinding and the modern concept of projection describe the same mental phenomena. "The log is in our own eye" and so on.

Every detail of these things is not covered in the sastras or by the acaryas because, again - the subject is not jnana or knowlege. So knowing is not the goal. Knowing for instance that Krsna's janma (appearence) and karma (activities) are divyam or transcendental are preliminary for bhakti for aspiring practitioners in this world. But in the highest realm of the spiritual world the opposite is the case, so the residents there, just think that Krsna is a beautiful young boy or maybe some kind of demigod who has been empowered by Narayana to do amazing acts. It is called jnana-sunya bhakti. I cannot remember the source, but I have heard it said (perhaps Brhat Bhagavatamrtra by Sanatana Goswami) that the newcomers can remember their last llives, but then the entire memory of that will fade away.

The time you are talking about exist within the material world. The residents of Goloka are not even aware of the existence of the material world except perhaps in relationship to Krsna's prakat lila. In other words they know only Krsna and even that is a figurative statement which means that Krsna is their life and soul (another figurative statement). They are not even aware that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead lest the mechanics of His material creation.

Avinash, go back an read post #61. The inhabitants of Goloka are not jnanis but rather bhaktas. Goloka is the "Land of Love" not the land of knowledge. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.14.3jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva jīvanti san-mukharitāḿ bhavadīya-vārtām sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāḿ tanu-vāń-manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām SYNONYMS jñāne — for knowledge; prayāsam — the endeavor; udapāsya — giving up completely; namantaḥ — offering obeisances; eva — simply; jīvanti — live; sat-mukharitām — chanted by the pure devotees; bhavadīya-vārtām — topics related to You; sthāne — in their material position; sthitāḥ — remaining; śruti-gatām — received by hearing; tanu — with their body; vāk — words; manobhiḥ — and mind; ye — who; prāyaśaḥ — for the most part; ajita — O unconquerable one; jitaḥ — conquered; api — nevertheless; asi — You become; taiḥ — by them; tri-lokyām — within the three worlds. TRANSLATION Those who, even while remaining situated in their established social positions, throw away the process of speculative knowledge and with their body, words and mind offer all respects to descriptions of Your personality and activities, dedicating their lives to these narrations, which are vibrated by You personally and by Your pure devotees, certainly conquer Your Lordship, although You are otherwise unconquerable by anyone within the three worlds.

Sridhar Maharaj, From Sri Guru and His Grace,

What ever conception that I have whether deep or superficial is only on the intellectual level. Unfortunately my heart is still as hard as a rock. The conception of our acaryas is very deep on both the jnana and vijnana levels. We can only "hope against hope". "When will that day be mine?"

Here is how Srila Prabhupada and the acaryas understand it, Teachings of Queen Kuntī From : Chapter 14: Lord Kṛṣṇa's Wonderful Activities, The terms Vrndavana and Goloka are synonomous in this context.

In Sripad Siva Rama Swami's edition of Venu Gita, the chapters which ecompass "The flute song of Krsna" [s.B. Tenth Canto] it is explained that the sadhana siddha gopis, such as the Dandakaranya sages and other perfected devotees became gopis by engaging in devotional service. The nitya-siddhas (nitya priya) gopis, are eternally liberated gopis. The sadhana-siddha gopis who have also taken birth in the womb of the mother gopis, according to Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur, could only enter the rasa dance in the Gokula pastimes after being purified further by the association of the nitya-siddha gopis. So even in Vraja, amongst the gopis, there is a spiritual hierarchy that Vigrah, Sarva gattah, Swaupa etc. cannot fathom or appreciate as they wallow in their superficial conception of Krsna Consciousness.

Out of the ruins Out from the wreckage Can't make the same mistake this time We are the children the last generation We are the ones they left behind And I wonder when we are ever gonna change it Living under the fear till nothing else remains We don't need another bogus GBC guru All we need is to know the way Home All we want is life beyond Iskcon-dome Looking for something we can rely on There's got to be something better out there Love and compassion, their day is coming All else are castles built in the air And I wonder when we are ever gonna change it Living under the fear till nothing else remains All the prabhus say We don't need another bogus GBC guru All we need is to know the way Home All we want is life beyond the Iskcon-dome So, what do we do with our lives We leave only a mark Will our story shine like a light Or end in the dark Give it all or nothing…Die to live!

When Danavir was a young devotee in L. A. he had by far the highest verticle leap of anyone during "ecstatic" kirtans. Nowadays they would say that he had hops (no not the grain - player hater). One time that boy jumped so high his feet were as high as my chest. "Dang", I thought "...that Prabhu sure is ecstatic he practically done jumped over my head!" Later on when he showed up in 1978 to indoctrinate us into how Prabhupada was now manifesting as "The Magnificent Eleven", I thought, "I should listen to this Prabhu because after all he could probably leap into the cloulds if he wanted." Hamsadutta owes Danavir a great debt, after all he helped create an atmosphere where Hans AKA Jack London could be the first Gaudiya guru to shoot up a Cadillac dealership. Yep, them was the "good old days" for sure. Now that Maharaja is older, he just travels around explaining to all the good folks how we all fell down from Goloka. Cause we all know all the good folks is still in ISKCON. And that's the way it is on November 20, 2007. Good night and good luck!

The Search For Sri Krsna, Reality the Beautiful, Srila Sridhar Maharaj <tt> </tt> From : The Krishna Conception (continued) </td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

The Search For Sri Krsna, Reality the Beautiful, Srila Sridhar Maharaj<tt> </tt> From : The Krishna Conception

Sri Guru & His Grace, Srila Srila Sridhar Maharaj<tt> </tt> From Chapt. One: The Genuine Guru

Your both wrong, we should only discuss the origin of the soul ad nausea! This is my path and I am the shining example!

<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="587"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2" width="14"> </td> <td height="35" width="451"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="10"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td rowspan="3" valign="top" width="451"> From Krsna Book Chapt. 30 </td></tr></tbody></table>

The raganuga bhakta can become ragatmika but from our position the world of the ragatmikas is like a big green tree. To use a traditional analogy in this case and extend in further - within that green tree we will see as we get closer, there are green birds and those green birds live in a society with a hierarchy. Each rasa has its leaders or captains. If a raganuga bhakta's siddha swaupa is that of a cowherd boy, he still will serve under the leaders of that group like Sridhama, Subal and others. The Rupanugas always serve under Srila Rupa Goswami/Rupa Manjari and this is the glory of Srila Prabhupada, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, Srila Bhakti Rashak Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja and others. Yes, I am viewing them as nitya-siddhas.

<tt>Sri Guru & His Grace, </tt> Chapter Twelve (excerpt) Srila Sridhara Maharaja: