Beggar

Sridhar Maharaj, Subjective Evolution of Consciousness - Consciousness is not a product of the world; the world is a product of consciousness.

Anybody can "claim" anything. As Srila Sridhar Maharaj says, "there is gradation everywhere." Is the conception given to the world by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu "the most profound and well-developed theistic conception" or not? It sounds like you are saying that its something like a horse race and that the Christian theologians could receive some revelation in the last stretch and win by a photo finish. I sure hope not, because I put all my remaining money on the Gaudiya Vaisnavas!

Srila Sridhar Maharaj would often refer to the "absolute conception and the relative consideration. This is a perfect example of it in "the enervating environment of the material plane".

Sikshastakam Verse Two: Oh my Lord your holy name can alone render all benediction upon the living being and therefore you have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna, Govinda etc. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies and there is no hard and fast rules for chanting these holy names. Oh my Lord You have so kindly made easy approach to You by Your holy name but unfortunate as I am, I have no attraction for them.

There is no long "A" at the end of the name of Lord Rāma. Whether the short "a" at the end of the name is pronounced is an open question for Sanskritists.Generally whether it is pronounced or not is dependent on what part of India people live in and what is their native language and dialect.

In December of 1985 I was there in San Jose. "Dheera", Bhakti Sudhir Goswami Maharaj personally told me that Sulocana had threatened his life. Sulocana told him something like, If you keep this up (preaching on behalf of Srila Sridhar Maharaj) something very bad could happen to you. Maharaj asked him if it was a threat and Sulocana said something like, "however you want to take it". From that time on Sulocana was not welcome to the temple but actually he left any way a few days later for L.A. and the devotees in San Jose were quite relieved. Then about a week later we heard that he had been murdered. We all knew that Kirtanananda was behind it, and we heard through the grapevine that some of Ramesvara's guys colluded in the conspiracy (a fact which was verified later). Sudhir Maharaj was still angry at Ramesvara in those days. But although he knew that Ramesvara's involvement in the whole thing was wrong and not befitting a Vaisnava sannyasi, still he expressed how, under the circumstances, he understood why Ramesvara reacted the way that he did. So it turned out that the man who claimed, to be an exclusive servant of Srila Prabhupada was a kind of desparado, living on the edge, and threatening devotees who he did not agree with. Maybe he thought that since his death was imminent he might as well take out those persons he deemed as Prabhupada's enemies. I only spoke with him once during his stay in San Jose but from what he expressed to me and what Maharaj told me, that certainly seemed to be his mentality. Anyway this Sulocana knew that the ISKCON gurus were vastly unqualified or bogus, so he gets some credit for that. Yet before Kirtanananda married his wife to another man, Sulocana seemed quite complacent about the obvious contradictions in "Bhaktipada". I also was acquainted with Sulocana in New Vrndavana in 1980, and did not dare tell him that I did not see "Bhaktipada" as pure devotee. At that time it seemed to me that Sulocana was a "Bhaktipada" supporter.

This is really not so much of an issue of camps but of truth. If you go back and read the transcripts of Sridhar Maharaj's conversations with the GBCs and other ISKCON members, you will see the history unfold. Eventually Srila Sridhar Maharaj said, "They came to me and told me that Swami Maharaj appointed them guru, I am a simple man, so I accepted what they told me. But now due to their behavior I can understand that this was not the case, he (Swami Maharaj) could not appointed them it is impossible." And this was in 1982! The issue goes beyond camps because the GBC leadership has a complete disregard for the truth especially when the truth interferes with what is politically expediant.

But where does it say anywhere that the idea that the jiva souls originate from the effulgence of Sri Bhagavan, the brahmajyoti, is an impersonist concept? Part of the answer is that there are many references in Prabhupada's books to the "impersonal brahman".From the purport to Sri Isopanishad 15, "Less intelligent students of either of the above schools sometimes argue in favor of their own respective realization", but nobody who opposes the Sleeper-Vadi or Fall-Vadi view is arguing in favor of meditating and ultimately merging with the impersonal brahman. Again From the purport to Sri Isopanishad 15, "Perfect knowledge means knowing Krishna as the root of this Brahman effulgence." So the allegation that one who accepts such statements as, Sri Isopanisad, Text 16, purport, is an impersonlist has no foundation in any form of logic, sastra or any reality and is a travesty and a fraud perpetrated by misguided and sentimental, foolish, naive and less intellegent pseudo-devotees. The most saddest aspect of this is that it is being done in the name of Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

"Maybe most of us are simply not ready to understand this". This is simply untrue of Srila Sridhar Maharaj and your opposing posters on this forum. WE DO UNDERSTAND THIS. What you are saying is a spiritual fact and is stated in Caitanya Caritamrta, nitya siddha krsna prema, sadhya naya. Any intellegent observer can see that this is not the point of contention. The point of contention is over, HOW THE NITYA SIDDHA VERSE IS APPLIED TO THE DEVOTIONAL CONCLUSION. If we apply it the way you do then we must assume that the eternal parishads of Sri Krsna are just as fallable as the most wretched (or dreaming he is wretched) jiva. Aside from the preaching or introductory level of Krsna Consciousness, the real levels of confindential devotional service focus more on bhakti towards the parishads of the Lord. The way in which the Sleeper-vadis apply the illusion of time concept minimizes the postion of the parishad bhaktas and thereby destroys the concept of real guru and vaisnava bhakti and ultimately it opposes the underlying concepts of Rupanuga bhakti. Consequently Sleeper-Vada is apa-sampradaya and imitation Krsna Consciousness.

One could also say, I absolutely 100% accept that maya is a dream state of the individual soul. However I accept the tatastha position on where that soul originates from. The process of dreaming is exactly the same rather the dreamer originated from the variegated Spiritual Sky or the Brahman. Which means that the Sleeper-Vadi argument that we don't get the "process of dreaming" is absolutely false. It is a smokescreen, as is the impersonlism charge, used when one cannot adequately support their position.

Its not that the party that presents you opposition also opposes the above concept as it (the above statement) stands alone. The opposition is how the Sleeper-Vardis (yes, now we like the "vardi" word and have become obsessed with it) or Sleeper-Vadis (if you prefer) have applied this truth to the other parts of the siddhanta. In Caitanya Caritamrta it is given, nitya siddha krsna prema sadhya kabu naya. So the idea that the jiva is already liberated and our anadi - almost eternal bondage is like a dream is sastric. The previous acaryas and current "Gaudiya Math" acaryas certainly accept this and in turn although we have no realization, we will try to follow suit. So the difference lies in how we apply this concept. The Sleeper-Vadi heresy extends this nitya siddha concept into territory that it was never meant to approach. Such heretics (also the OOPers) assert that the eternal, (internal - intimate) bhaktas in Goloka fall down or at least dream that they do (which would be tantamount to falling). The Sleeper-Vadis use bullying tactics in this debate. They call persons who believe in Krsna lila and see it as the goal to attain entrance there, Mayavadis (or erroneously MayaVardis); yet never once is there any attempt to provide a philosophical foundation for such a charge. Not one of these several posters has ever show any foundation for the charge. Yet they repeat it as if it was a slogan (the word derives from sloka). It's as if its true, just because they believe it is! And secretly they believe that this all comes from Srila Prabhupada, yet there is not one statement any where that anyone has ever found that Srila Prabhupada ever called any of his godbrothers "imperonalists". Yet still Sleeper-Vadi hacks harangue us with such propaganda. Propaganda is one thing but this form of propaganda uses the Big Lie Technique. The idea behind the Big Lie Technique is that if you repeat an idea that has no foundation, or basically a lie,enough they people will eventually accept it. Such a type of propaganda was the basis for all racist, "ethnic cleansings" in history. "Propaganda," Goebbels once wrote, "has absolutely nothing to do with truth." So that Sidhar Maharaj obviously hotly attacks the real mayavadis and preaches Mahaprabhu's philosophy that the highest form of bhakti is found in the damsels of Vraja is of no consequence to the Sleeper-Vadis. They will just repeat, again and again that because he says that the jiva emanates from the tatastha region which is actually the Lord's effulgence -THEN- he is an impersonalist....WITHOUT EVER EVEN ONCE TRYING TO EVEN EXPLAIN THE CONNECTION THAT THEY ARE MAKING!!!!! Such an act is libelous, defamation of character of a great saint and obviously an extreme form of Vaisnava aparadha. Yet when all else fails, the Sleeper-Vadis will return to this, everytime because there is no logic to their system.

Suhotra Swami, Prabhu, was a total lunatic. But even though he was a GBC loyalist and a strong opponent of anything else and quite closeminded, he was a lovable lunatic and my friend.

VARDI this sucka!!!!!

The South will Rise Again!!!! Actually it already has, it's just dreaming that it hasn't!!! Oh I wish I was in the land of Vardis, Old times there are not forgotton, look away, look away, look away Vardi Land!

None of your opponents, on this forum have ever said that it is their goal or the goal of Gaudiya Vaisnavas to "return to the impersonal Brahmajyoti". You seem to making alot of this up as you go along. Another meaning of the word vardi is what comes out of a male bovines asana. In this sense you are certainly a Vardi-Vada of the nth degree. Now you could say, "it takes one to know one". And I could reply, "I know you are, but what am I." I guess that you either don't want to have a rational debate or due to vardi growing on the frontal lobe of your brain, you are unable to. (Now you've got me writing "vardi") Either way you want to label those who believe what they have read with their own eyes about the origin of the jiva as impersonalists. At first it was a subtle allegation. But now it turns out that we are supposed to desire to merge into the brahmajyoti. But in your insane paradigm, we can't even deny it and say that we want to revive our eternal relationship with Krsna or at least say that we want to be Krsna's or Radha's or Mahaprabu's servant, life after life. But to no avail, we are all secretely impersonalists unbeknownst even to ourselves. We'll that's some of the biggest B.S. I've ever heard. Why are you really here, on this forum, just to get our goat and drive everyone crazy? Who knows maybe you don't even believe what you are writing and are just somekind of warped mad person?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahah! Listen to Hahaha! and Hehehe! http://www.orbitfiles.com/download/id703767618

Thank you Guruvani for standing up to this garbage offensive mentality. A similar mentality was prevalent in 70's ISKCON and as we wrote in earlier posts, it was the infamous Drutakarma das Asuracari who harnessed this mentality to create purges in ISKCON in the 80's and again in this decade.

Dash-Vidha-Nama-Aparadha Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda-dev Goswami Maharaj "guru krishnarup han sashtrer pramane gururupe krishna kripa kore bhagyavane" se gurute marttya-budhi avajñadi tyaji ishtalabh koro, nirantara nam bhaji Krishna appears to us in the form of Sri Guru and this is evidenced in all the scriptures. In this form of Sri Guru, Krishna bestows his mercy on the fortunate souls. Therefore, one should never consider the sat Guru to be an ordinary person. Serving him will fulfill all of our spiritual desires.

Fifth Offense: artha-vadah To give some interpretation on the holy name of the Lord. Padma Purana Brahma Khanda 25.15–18 Ten offenses to the Holy Name

Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari Q. Some saints in Krsna lila or Caitanya lila are described as combinations of different personalities; for example, Ramananda Raya, the associate of Sri Chaitanya, is said to be Arjuna and Visaka sakhi simultaneously. How are we to understand this and which Arjuna is being referred to, the cowherd friend of Krsna in Vraja lila or the warrior friend of Krsna of Bhagavad-gita fame? A. Eternal associates (nitya parsada) of Krsna like Ramananda Raya are constituted of Krsna's svarupa-sakti, unlike the jiva souls in the material world who are constituted of his tatastha-sakti. Nitya parsada souls often appear with the Lord in his various incarnations in appropriate forms or in more than one form. For that matter when the jiva comes under the influence of Krsna's svarupa-sakti, it can realize more than one spiritual form in which to serve Krsna. For example, it is taught in the Gaudiya tradition that the jiva can attain a form as a young brahmana boy in Gaura lila and a corresponding form as a gopi or gopa in Krsna lila. Sri Jiva Goswami cites a passage from the Candogya Upanisad in his Priti-sandarbha in this regard, interpreting it in an interesting way. Sri Jiva says, "By his own will a liberated soul can manifest many different forms. This is described in these words of Candogya Upanisad (7.26.2): sa ekadha bhavati, dvidha bhavati, tridha bhavati: 'The liberated soul may manifest one form, two forms, three forms, or more forms than that.' " He cites this passage while speaking about the highest liberation, as described in the preceding chapter of the same Upanisad. Sri Jiva says, "The highest state of liberation is described in these words of Candogya Upanisad (7.25.2): sa va evam pasyann evam manvana evam vijanann atma-ratir atma-krida atma-mithuna, 'In this way the liberated soul sees God, thinks of him, understands him, delights in him, and enjoys pastimes with him.' " Candogya 7.26.2 cited above is referring to spiritual forms and the potential of the liberated to have more than one such form for the sake of lila with Bhagavan. Regarding Ramananda Raya in particular, various devotees have identified him differently. Kavi Karnapura identified him with the gopi Lalita and the Pandava Arjuna based upon the Ramananda-samvada's being roughly analogous to the Bhagavad-gita. He also identifies him as the priyanarma sakha Arjuna of Vraja-lila based on his pacifying Sri Caitanya when he assumed the bhava of Krsna in separation from Radha. Priyanarma sakhas are confidential friends of Krsna who are involved in service within the romantic life of Radha-Krsna. Others such as Bhaktivinoda Thakura have identified Ramananda Raya with Visakha gopi based on Visakha's being so similar to Radha, having been born on the same day, and so on. Because of this similarity, she (as Ramananda Raya) is eminently qualified to help Caitanya Mahaprabhu enter Radha's bhava. Such is the rasika darsana (visionary ecstasy) of different devotees, and such is the potential of the nitya parsadas of Sri Krsna.

'I can be you (bodily vessel) you can be me (bodily vessels) and we can all be each other'... See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly. I'm crying. Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the Sleeper-Vadis to come. Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody Monday. MAN, you Vardis have been a naughty boys, you let your face grow long. I am the egglessman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob Represent, Respek, West Side, Peace Out

If the soul is indivisible then how can some souls be in Krsna lila and Gaura lila at the same instant? Represent, Respek, West Side, Peace Out

At least you isn't attracted to the breasts of octogenarian women, know what I'm say'in? Represent, Respek, West Side, Peace Out

"Representative" has a formal connotation. But going beyond that connation to another one, in the next statement you appear to be representing the conception of Gaudiya Vaisnavism: Represent, Respek, West Side, Peace Out

Why yes, the proper sanskrit term is "oogum boogum"