gHari

Talk of Jesus and Shankara in the same breath - how frightening. How will they spin Christ's words to kill Jehovah, The Almighty Father; kill Him and then worship His energies, become His energies, and be gods unto themselves? They accept only half the Vedas and they will accept only half of Jesus. And they will be worshipped as gods - but only by the ignorant and themselves - as they steal God's glory for their own.

Since you did not address my post, Datta, could you explain who you refer to as 'Lord' in this question: "Can prove that you have the strongest bond with the Lord only". Describe His appearance, His pastimes. Krsnas tu Bhagavan svayam - do you reject the Bhagavatam conclusion? Is that caused by envy of Sri Krsna? Will you be the greatest person in existence, God Himself? Are you this Datta you reference? Is the Father just a force, an impersonal hollow holy spirit? It seems to me that with all your hating of family and the world, you actually hate your Father, Sri Krsna, who lives in their hearts and yours. GOD DON'T MAKE NO JUNK

<center></center> Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.28: <center> ete cAMza-kalAH puMsaH kRSNas tu bhagavAn svayam indrAri-vyAkulaM lokaM mRDayanti yuge yuge </center> ete--all these; ca--and; aMza--plenary portions; kalAH--portions of the plenary portions; puMsaH--of the Supreme; kRSNaH--Lord KRSNa; tu--but; bhagavAn--the Personality of Godhead; svayam--in person; indra-ari--the enemies of Indra; vyAkulam--disturbed; lokam--all the planets; mRDayanti--gives protection; yuge yuge--in different ages. All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord SrI KRSNa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists. PURPORT In this particular stanza Lord SrI KRSNa, the Personality of Godhead, is distinguished from other incarnations. He is counted amongst the avatAras (incarnations) because out of His causeless mercy the Lord descends from His transcendental abode. AvatAra means "one who descends." All the incarnations of the Lord, including the Lord Himself, descend on the different planets of the material world as also in different species of life to fulfill particular missions. Sometimes He comes Himself, and sometimes His different plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, or His differentiated portions directly or indirectly empowered by Him, descend on this material world to execute certain specific functions. Originally the Lord is full of all opulences, all prowess, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation. When they are partly manifested through the plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, it should be noted that certain manifestations of His different powers are required for those particular functions. When in the room small electric bulbs are displayed, it does not mean that the electric powerhouse is limited by the small bulbs. The same powerhouse can supply power to operate large-scale industrial dynamos with greater volts. Similarly, the incarnations of the Lord display limited powers because so much power is needed at that particular time. For example, Lord ParazurAma and Lord NRsiMha displayed unusual opulence by killing the disobedient kSatriyas twenty-one times and killing the greatly powerful atheist HiraNyakazipu. HiraNyakazipu was so powerful that even the demigods in other planets would tremble simply by the unfavorable raising of his eyebrow. The demigods in the higher level of material existence many, many times excel the most well-to-do human beings, in duration of life, beauty, wealth, paraphernalia, and in all other respects. Still they were afraid of HiraNyakazipu. Thus we can simply imagine how powerful HiraNyakazipu was in this material world. But even HiraNyakazipu was cut into small pieces by the nails of Lord NRsiMha. This means that anyone materially powerful cannot stand the strength of the Lord's nails. Similarly, JAmadagnya displayed the Lord's power to kill all the disobedient kings powerfully situated in their respective states. The Lord's empowered incarnation NArada and plenary incarnation VarAha, as well as indirectly empowered Lord Buddha, created faith in the mass of people. The incarnations of RAma and Dhanvantari displayed His fame, and BalarAma, MohinI and VAmana exhibited His beauty. DattAtreya, Matsya, KumAra and Kapila exhibited His transcendental knowledge. Nara and NArAyaNa RSis exhibited His renunciation. So all the different incarnations of the Lord indirectly or directly manifested different features, but Lord KRSNa, the primeval Lord, exhibited the complete features of Godhead, and thus it is confirmed that He is the source of all other incarnations. And the most extraordinary feature exhibited by Lord SrI KRSNa was His internal energetic manifestation of His pastimes with the cowherd girls. His pastimes with the gopIs are all displays of transcendental existence, bliss and knowledge, although these are manifested apparently as sex love. The specific attraction of His pastimes with the gopIs should never be misunderstood. The BhAgavatam relates these transcendental pastimes in the Tenth Canto. And in order to reach the position to understand the transcendental nature of Lord KRSNa's pastimes with the gopIs, the BhAgavatam promotes the student gradually in nine other cantos. According to SrIla JIva GosvAmI's statement, in accordance with authoritative sources, Lord KRSNa is the source of all other incarnations. It is not that Lord KRSNa has any source of incarnation. All the symptoms of the Supreme Truth in full are present in the person of Lord SrI KRSNa, and in the Bhagavad-gItA the Lord emphatically declares that there is no truth greater than or equal to Himself. In this stanza the word svayam is particularly mentioned to confirm that Lord KRSNa has no other source than Himself . Although in other places the incarnations are described as bhagavAn because of their specific functions, nowhere are they declared to be the Supreme Personality. In this stanza the word svayam signifies the supremacy as the summum bonum. The summum bonum KRSNa is one without a second. He Himself has expanded Himself in various parts, portions and particles as svayaM-rUpa, svayam-prakAza, tad-ekAtmA, prAbhava, vaibhava, vilAsa, avatAra, Aveza, and jIvas, all provided with innumerable energies just suitable to the respective persons and personalities. Learned scholars in transcendental subjects have carefully analyzed the summum bonum KRSNa to have sixty-four principal attributes. All the expansions or categories of the Lord possess only some percentages of these attributes. But SrI KRSNa is the possessor of the attributes cent percent. And His personal expansions such as svayam-prakAza, tad-ekAtmA up to the categories of the avatAras who are all viSNu-tattva, possess up to ninety-three percent of these transcendental attributes. Lord Siva, who is neither avatAra nor Aveza nor in between them, possesses almost eighty-four percent of the attributes. But the jIvas, or the individual living beings in different statuses of life, possess up to the limit of seventy-eight percent of the attributes. In the conditioned state of material existence, the living being possesses these attributes in very minute quantity, varying in terms of the pious life of the living being. The most perfect of living beings is BrahmA, the supreme administrator of one universe. He possesses seventy-eight percent of the attributes in full. All other demigods have the same attributes in less quantity, whereas human beings possess the attributes in very minute quantity. The standard of perfection for a human being is to develop the attributes up to seventy-eight percent in full. The living being can never possess attributes like Siva, ViSNu or Lord KRSNa. A living being can become godly by developing the seventy-eight-percent transcendental attributes in fullness, but he can never become a God like Siva, ViSNu or KRSNa. He can become a BrahmA in due course. The godly living beings who are all residents of the planets in the spiritual sky are eternal associates of God in different spiritual planets called Hari-dhAma and Maheza-dhAma. The abode of Lord KRSNa above all spiritual planets is called KRSNaloka or Goloka VRndAvana, and the perfected living being, by developing seventy-eight percent of the above attributes in fullness, can enter the planet of KRSNaloka after leaving the present material body. KRSNas tu bhagavAn svayam [sB 1.3.28]. The original source of all energies, or the summum bonum, is the Absolute Truth, which is called Parambrahma, etc., and BhagavAn is the last word of the Absolute Truth. But even with the synonyms for BhagavAn, such as NArAyaNa, ViSNu and PuruSa, the last word is KRSNa, as confirmed in the Bhagavad-gItA: ahaM sarvasya prabhavo mattaH samaM pravartate [Bg. 10.8], etc. Besides that, the SrImad-BhAgavatam is the representation of Lord KRSNa as a sound incarnation of the Lord. kRSNe sva-dhAmopagate dharma-jJAnAdibhiH saha kalau naSTa-dRzAm eSaH purANArko 'dhunoditaH (SB 1.3.43) Thus by general conclusion Lord KRSNa is the ultimate source of all energies, and the word KRSNa means that. And to explain KRSNa or the science of KRSNa, the SrImad-BhAgavatam has been prepared.

Therein lies the source of all the forced false logic and rhetoric. God is not an 'it'. Try again from this perspective. It becomes a lot clearer. I think it is offensive to use the word 'swami' in this way. You may not be capable of seeing how foolish you are, Datta, but please be assured that it is an offence to try to associate such misinformed nonsense with the word 'swami'. Maybe you are trying to make a joke, using high concepts so foolishly - but it is just not funny. It is offensive.

Datta Swami, Yes, I see that was something I missed in the words of Jesus. I take it to mean that one must be detached from family life, from the world. We are taught to water the root of the plant, then all the leaves and flowers will benefit. If we pour water on the leaves and flowers, there is no benefit to any of them or the plant itself. Similarly our relationship with everyone and everything is found through the root, Sri Krsna. We direct our love to Krsna and all other relationships will be perfect. The importance of the Centre, the Cause of all causes, God is highlighted in the following exerpt from "Poetry of a Saint" which features the words of Srila Sridhara Maharaja: So, Krsna Consciousness, God Consciousness is like that. It is cinmaya – it is conscious and spiritual. The Lord has manifested Himself in this mundane plane of our sense experience for our benefit. He is not to be neglected. However, this conception, this presence of His grace, is considered to be for the lower section. Yet the Deity should not be considered as an idol. The Deity is also His presence manifested for our gross senses. However, a devotee always sees all things connected to the Lord, the Centre. archayam eva haraye pujam yah sraddhayehate na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah (Srimad Bhagatavam 11.2.47) “When we do not learn to appreciate the presence of the Lord in the heart of His devotees, but only confine ourselves to such symbols connected with Him, our standard of devotion is meagre.” Trace the Causal Existence of Everything We cannot eliminate the plane of affection and love that we find here and there scattered in different ways. We are to trace the causal existence of everything. What is the unity in the background that is really harmonizing all these scattered experiences? One whose consciousness is raised to such a standard can see the background of everything as one, from One Centre. All these creations are handled, controlled and managed from One Centre. “Wherever he goes, he is always with My connection. I am not lost to him. In Srimad Bhagavatam it is said: sarva-bhutesu yah pasyed bhagavad-bhavam atmanah bhutani bhagavaty atmany esa bhagavatottamah (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.45) “One who can see everywhere the connection of the Centre in the background, sees all things correctly. He sees the cause, the connection, the central position, the background, and also his own relationship to the Whole in that position.” Three Elements in any Experience In any particular experience, there are three things: The Deepest Root (Sri Krsna), the Seer’s connection (Sri Guru), and that which is having the experience of his connection (jivatma). This is in accordance to his position with the Centre and it is also interdependent on his adjustment with that environment. That adjustment is concommitant with his relationship to the Centre. Everything will be considered in relation to the position and desires of the Centre, and not any independent transaction with part and part. It is from the part to the Whole, and from the Whole to the part. ‘What will be my position, my relationship to this part?’ It must be calculated through the Centre, and that will be real . This relationship of “I and he,” is considered a misconception. This misconception will not remain, as it is unreal. But if it comes through the Centre, then it will be real and we will not be frustrated or disappointed. This sort of measurement or estimation would be one of substance. The part-to-part relationship is unstable. It is truly unreliable and will not remain. However, the connection that comes through the Centre is substantial, real and will not frustrate us. gHari

Quoted from above: "But Holy Jesus says that one should hate these family bonds to become His disciple.' I don't remember this anywhere. We should give up everything and seek the Kingdom of God. That is what he said, over and over, everywhere, in every town and village - what he said he was sent to preach. Please don't pretend such great respect and then just use Jesus for your games.

I'd never even consider eating bhoga. Even starving, I'd assume it was meant to be.

This crying is simply part of our cure, our growing detachment. If we cry for God, then He will come. However if we cry for the things that stand between us and God, then it is a good thing that we lose them. Drowning in the ocean of happiness of existence, if I add a big car to that ocean, the depth is not increased. If I take a big car out of the ocean, the water is not decreased. Don't get stuck in a little pond where the tides of happiness and distress constantly flow.

They say that the only qualification to receive Lord Caitanya's mercy is that we must be unqualified for His mercy. Let us all remain continually qualified for His ocean of mercy. The other stuff will take care of itself.

I located a 1995 June Back to Godhead magazine which featured an article called "Puranic Time and the Archeological Record" by Drutakarma Dasa (Michael A. Cremo). The following is an excerpt which addresses our location within the 4.32 billion year daytime window of our current Brahma: <blockquote>"According to Puranic accounts, we are now in the twenty-eighth yuga cycle of the seventh manvantara period of the present day of Brahma. This would give the inhabited earth an age of 2.3 billion years. Interestingly enough, the oldest undisputed organisms recognized by paleontolgists - algae fossils such as those from the Gunflint formation in Canada - are just about that old". </blockquote>

In addition to major destruction after 4.32 billion years there will also be partial destruction fourteen times within that period: PrabhupAda: There are different, when BrahmA goes to sleep, that is one kind of devastation, and when he dies there is one kind. And during BrahmA's days there are other devastations, manvantara. SadApUta: After a devastation, do the... PrabhupAda: Different classes of devastation. There are many devastations during BrahmA's day, and there is another devastation during BrahmA's sleep, and another devastation when BrahmA dies. SvarUpa DAmodara: And during different Manus also. PrabhupAda: That is day. Such devastation takes place during BrahmA's day. Fourteen Manus.

....... that it single-handedly establishes the Vedas as the crown of religious knowledge on the planet. It all seems unfathomable to humans who live in their forms in Kali yuga for only 100 years. Day and night for Lord Brahma are each over four billion years, totalling over eight billion. After the day there is a partial destruction of some of the lower planets while its inhabitants sleep formless. Then after the night again they are manifest in form as a partial creation sees new planets arise. It's all more complicated than we are thinking here. I got my head around it once long ago and found it shocking, just how in tune with modern scientific speculation it all was. Maybe I will do it again. Or maybe you will. Here are some references to get the mind rolling: CC Madhya 20.305: "If in a kalpa a suitable living entity is not available to take charge of BrahmA's post, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself personally expands and becomes Lord BrahmA. PURPORT One day of BrahmA consists of the four yugas multiplied a thousand times--or, according to solar calculations, 4,320,000,000 years--and such also is the duration of his night. One year of BrahmA's life consists of 360 such days and nights, and BrahmA lives for one hundred such years. Such is the life of a BrahmA. SB 12.4.3: After one day of BrahmA, annihilation occurs during his night, which is of the same duration. At that time all the three planetary systems are subject to destruction. Isopanishad 14p: All the material planets--upper, lower and intermediate, including the sun, moon and Venus--are scattered throughout the universe. These planets exist only during the lifetime of BrahmA. Some lower planets, however, are vanquished after the end of one day of BrahmA and are again created during the next day of BrahmA. On the upper planets, time is calculated differently. One of our years is equal to only twenty-four hours, or one day and night, on many of the upper planets. The four ages of earth (Satya, TretA, DvApara and Kali) last only twelve thousand years according to the time scale of the upper planets. Such a length of time multiplied by one thousand constitutes one day of BrahmA, and one night of BrahmA is the same. Such days and nights accumulate into months and years, and BrahmA lives for one hundred such years. At the end of BrahmA's life, the complete universal manifestation is vanquished. Bhagavad-gita 8.17: By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the duration of BrahmA's one day. And such also is the duration of his night. PURPORT The duration of the material universe is limited. It is manifested in cycles of kalpas. A kalpa is a day of BrahmA, and one day of BrahmA consists of a thousand cycles of four yugas, or ages: Satya, TretA, DvApara and Kali. The cycle of Satya is characterized by virtue, wisdom and religion, there being practically no ignorance and vice, and the yuga lasts 1,728,000 years. In the TretA-yuga vice is introduced, and this yuga lasts 1,296,000 years. In the DvApara-yuga there is an even greater decline in virtue and religion, vice increasing, and this yuga lasts 864,000 years. And finally in Kali-yuga (the yuga we have now been experiencing over the past 5,000 years) there is an abundance of strife, ignorance, irreligion and vice, true virtue being practically nonexistent, and this yuga lasts 432,000 years. In Kali-yuga vice increases to such a point that at the termination of the yuga the Supreme Lord Himself appears as the Kalki avatAra, vanquishes the demons, saves His devotees, and commences another Satya-yuga. Then the process is set rolling again. These four yugas, rotating a thousand times, comprise one day of BrahmA, and the same number comprise one night. BrahmA lives one hundred of such "years" and then dies. These "hundred years" by earth calculations total to 311 trillion and 40 billion earth years. By these calculations the life of BrahmA seems fantastic and interminable, but from the viewpoint of eternity it is as brief as a lightning flash. In the Causal Ocean there are innumerable BrahmAs rising and disappearing like bubbles in the Atlantic. BrahmA and his creation are all part of the material universe, and therefore they are in constant flux. SB 1.12.19p: The Vedic literatures are taught in higher planets also, as there is reference in the Bhagavad-gItA (4.1) about the teachings to the sun-god (VivasvAn) by the Lord, and such lessons are transferred by disciplic succession, as it was done by the sun-god to his son Manu, and from Manu to MahArAja IkSvAku. There are fourteen Manus in one day of BrahmA, and the Manu referred to herein is the seventh Manu, who is one of the prajApatis (those who create progeny), and he is the son of the sun-god. He is known as the Vaivasvata Manu. He had ten sons, and MahArAja IkSvAku is one of them. MahArAja IkSvAku also learned bhakti-yoga as taught in the Bhagavad-gItA from his father, Manu, who got it from his father, the sun-god. Later on the teaching of the Bhagavad-gItA came down by disciplic succession from MahArAja IkSvAku, but in course of time the chain was broken by unscrupulous persons, and therefore it again had to be taught to Arjuna on the Battlefield of KurukSetra. So all the Vedic literatures are current from the very beginning of creation of the material world, and thus the Vedic literatures are known as apauruSeya (not made by man). The Vedic knowledge was spoken by the Lord and first heard by BrahmA, the first created living being within the universe. SB 2.6.11p: In the Bhagavad-gItA (8.17–18) it is stated that according to human calculations one day of BrahmA is equal to one thousand ages of four millenniums (4,300,000 years) each, and the same period is calculated to be his night also. A BrahmA lives for one hundred such years and then dies. A BrahmA, who is generally a great devotee of the Lord, attains liberation after such a downfall. The universe (called the brahmANDa, or the round football-like domain controlled by a BrahmA) is thus annihilated, and thus the inhabitants of a particular planet, or of the whole universe, are also annihilated. Avyakta, mentioned here in this verse, means the night of BrahmA, when partial annihilation takes place and the living entities of that particular brahmANDa, up to the planets of Brahmaloka, along with the big oceans, etc., all repose in the belly of the virAT-puruSa. At the end of a BrahmA's night, the creation again takes place, and the living entities, reserved within the belly of the Lord, are let loose to play their respective parts as if being awakened from a deep slumber. Since the living entities are never destroyed, the annihilation of the material world does not annihilate the existence of the living entities, but until liberation is attained one has to accept one material body after another, again and again. The human life is meant for making a solution to this repeated change of bodies and thereby attaining a place in the spiritual sky, where everything is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. In other words, the subtle forms of the living entities take place in the heart of the Supreme Being, and such forms take tangible shape at the time of creation. SB 2.10.46: This process of creation and annihilation described in summary herein is the regulative principle during the duration of BrahmA's one day. It is also the regulative principle in the creation of mahat, in which the material nature is dispersed. PURPORT There are three different types of creation, called mahA-kalpa, vikalpa and kalpa. In the mahA-kalpa the Lord assumes the first puruSa incarnation as KAraNodakazAyI ViSNu with all the potencies of the mahat-tattva and the sixteen principles of creative matter and instruments. The creative instruments are eleven, the ingredients are five, and all of them are products of mahat, or materialistic ego. These creations by the Lord in His feature of KAraNodakazAyI ViSNu are called mahA-kalpa. The creation of BrahmA and dispersion of the material ingredients are called vikalpa, and the creation by BrahmA in each day of his life is called kalpa. Therefore each day of BrahmA is called a kalpa, and there are thirty kalpas in terms of BrahmA's days. This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gItA (8.17) as follows: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaNo viduH rAtiM yuga-sahasrAntAM te 'ho-rAtra-vido janAH In the upper planetary system the duration of one complete day and night is equal to one complete year of this earth. This is accepted even by the modern scientist and attested by the astronauts. Similarly, in the region of still higher planetary systems the duration of day and night is still greater than in the heavenly planets. The four yugas are calculated in terms of the heavenly calendars and accordingly are twelve thousand years in terms of the heavenly planets. This is called a divya-yuga, and one thousand divya-yugas make one day of BrahmA. The creation during the day of BrahmA is called kalpa, and the creation of BrahmA is called vikalpa. When vikalpas are made possible by the breathing of MahA-ViSNu, this is called a mahA-kalpa. There are regular and systematic cycles of these mahA-kalpas, vikalpas and kalpas. In answer to MahArAja ParIkSit's question about them, Sukadeva GosvAmI answered in the PrabhAsa-khaNDa of the Skanda PurANa. They are as follows: prathamaH zveta-kalpaz ca dvitIyo nIla-lohitaH vAmadevas tRtIyas tu tato gAthAntaro 'paraH rauravaH paJcamaH proktaH SaSThaH prANa iti smRtaH saptamo 'tha bRhat-kalpaH kandarpo 'STama ucyate sadyotha navamaH kalpa IzAno dazamaH smRtaH dhyAna ekAdazaH proktas tathA sArasvato 'paraH trayodaza udAnas tu garuDo 'tha caturdazaH kaurmaH paJcadazo jJeyaH paurNamAsI prajApateH SoDazo nArasiMhas tu samAdhis tu tato 'paraH Agneyo viSNujaH sauraH soma-kalpas tato 'paraH dvAviMzo bhAvanaH proktaH supumAn iti cAparaH vaikuNThaz cArSTiSas tadvad valI-kalpas tato 'paraH saptaviMzo 'tha vairAjo gaurI-kalpas tathAparaH mAhezvaras tathA proktas tripuro yatra ghAtitaH pitR-kalpas tathA cAnte yaH kuhUr brahmaNaH smRtA Therefore the thirty kalpas of BrahmA are: (1) Sveta-kalpa, (2) NIlalohita, (3) VAmadeva, (4) GAthAntara, (5) Raurava, (6) PrANa, (7) BRhat-kalpa, (8) Kandarpa, (9) Sadyotha, (10) IzAna, (11) DhyAna, (12) SArasvata, (13) UdAna, (14) GaruDa, (15) Kaurma, (16) NArasiMha, (17) SamAdhi, (18) Agneya, (19) ViSNuja, (20) Saura, (21) Soma-kalpa, (22) BhAvana, (23) Supuma, (24) VaikuNTha, (25) ArciSa, (26) ValI-kalpa, (27) VairAja, (28) GaurI-kalpa, (29) MAhezvara, (30) PaitR-kalpa. These are BrahmA's days only, and he has to live months and years up to one hundred, so we can just imagine how many creations there are in kalpas only. Then again there are vikalpas, which are generated by the breathing of MahA-ViSNu, as stated in the Brahma-saMhitA (yasyaika-nizvasita-kAlam athAvalambya jIvanti loma-vilajA jagadaNDa-nAthAH [bs. 5.48]). The BrahmAs live only during the breathing period of MahA-ViSNu. So the exhaling and inhaling of ViSNu are mahA-kalpas, and all these are due to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for no one else is the master of all creations. SB 11.10.30: In all the planetary systems, from the heavenly to the hellish, and for all of the great demigods who live for one thousand yuga cycles, there is fear of Me in My form of time. Even BrahmA, who possesses the supreme life span of 311,040,000,000,000 years, is also afraid of Me. PURPORT There are many statements throughout Vedic literature proving that even the great demigods fear the time potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Even in the heavenly planets there is no relief from the miseries of material life. No conditioned soul can live eternally, as clearly demonstrated by the deaths of HiraNyakazipu and other demons. Since even the demigods fear the time potency of the Personality of Godhead, one may easily conclude that KRSNa is the Absolute Truth and that He is eternally the supreme controller of everything and everyone. Lord KRSNa is the only real shelter. SB 12.8.5: Authorities say that MArkaNDeya RSi, the son of MRkaNDu. was an exceptionally long-lived sage who was the only survivor at the end of BrahmA's day, when the entire universe was merged in the flood of annihilation. But this same MArkaNDeya RSi, the foremost descendant of BhRgu, took birth in my own family during the current day of BrahmA, and we have not yet seen any total annihilation in this day of BrahmA. Also, it is well known that MArkaNDeya while wandering helplessly in the great ocean of annihilation, saw in those fearful waters a wonderful personality--an infant boy lying alone within the fold of a banyan leaf. O SUta, I am most bewildered and curious about this great sage, MArkaNDeya RSi. O great yogI, you are universally accepted as the authority on all the PurANas. Therefore kindly dispel my confusion. PURPORT Lord BrahmA's day, consisting of his 12 hours, lasts 4 billion 320 million years, and his night is of the same duration. Apparently MArkaNDeya lived throughout one such day and night and in the following day of BrahmA continued living as the same MArkaNDeya. It seems that when annihilation occurred during BrahmA's night, the sage wandered throughout the fearful waters of destruction and saw within those waters an extraordinary personality lying on a banyan leaf. All of these mysteries concerning. MArkaNDeya will be clarified by SUta GosvAmI at the request of the great sages. CC Adi 3.10: At the end of the DvApara-yuga of the twenty-eighth divya-yuga, Lord KRSNa appears on earth with the full paraphernalia of His eternal Vraja-dhAma. PURPORT Now is the term of Vaivasvata Manu, during which Lord Caitanya appears. First Lord KRSNa appears at the close of the DvApara-yuga of the twenty-eighth divya-yuga, and then Lord Caitanya appears in the Kali-yuga of the same divya-yuga. Lord KRSNa and Lord Caitanya appear once in each day of BrahmA, or once in fourteen manv-antaras, each of seventy-one divya-yugas in duration. From the beginning of BrahmA's day of 4,320,000,000 years, six Manus appear and disappear before Lord KRSNa appears. Thus 1,975,320,000 years of the day of BrahmA elapse before the appearance of Lord KRSNa. This is an astronomical calculation according to solar years. CC Adi 5.113: In the ages and millenniums of Manu, He appears as different incarnations to establish the principles of real religion and vanquish the principles of irreligion. PURPORT The Lord ViSNu who lies in the ocean of milk incarnates Himself in various forms to maintain the laws of the cosmos and annihilate the causes of disturbance. Such incarnations are visible in every manv-antara (i.e., in the course of the reign of each Manu, who lives for 71 x 4,320,000 years). Fourteen such Manus take their birth and die, to yield a place for the next, during one day of BrahmA.

SB 1.18.21:p There are four sects of worshipful devotees of the Lord, and the chief amongst them are the Brahma-sampradAya, Rudra-sampradAya and SrI-sampradAya, descending directly from Lord BrahmA, Lord Siva and the goddess of fortune, LakSmI, respectively. Besides the above-mentioned three sampradAyas, there is the KumAra-sampradAya, descending from Sanat-kumAra. All of the four original sampradAyas are still scrupulously engaged in the transcendental service of the Lord up to date, and they all declare that Lord KRSNa, Mukunda, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and no other personality is equal to Him or greater than Him. CC Madhya 9.11p: It may be noted that these particular Deities of RAma and SItA have been worshiped from the time of King IkSvAku. Indeed, they were worshiped by the royal princes even before the appearance of Lord RAmacandra. Later, during Lord RAmacandra's presence, the Deities were worshiped by LakSmaNa. It is said that just three months before his disappearance, SrI MadhvAcArya received these Deities and installed them in the UDupI temple. Since then the Deities have been worshiped by the MadhvAcArya-sampradAya at that monastery. As far as the SrI VaiSNavas are concerned, beginning with RAmAnujAcArya, they also worshiped Deities of SItA-RAma. SItA-RAma Deities are also being worshiped in Tirupati and other places. From the SrI RAmAnuja-sampradAya there is another branch known as RAmAnandI or RAmAt, and the followers of that branch also worship Deities of SItA-RAma very rigidly. The RAmAnuja-sampradAya VaiSNavas prefer the worship of Lord RAmacandra to that of RAdhA-KRSNa. CC Madhya 9.109: Being a VaiSNava in the RAmAnuja-sampradAya, VeGkaTa BhaTTa worshiped the Deities of LakSmI and NArAyaNa. Seeing his pure devotion, SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu was very satisfied. CC Antya 2.95: "When a VaiSNava listens to the SArIraka-bhASya, the MAyAvAda commentary upon the VedAnta-sUtra, he gives up the KRSNa conscious attitude that the Lord is the master and the living entity is His servant. Instead, he considers himself the Supreme Lord. PURPORT The philosophers known as kevalAdvaita-vAdIs generally occupy themselves with hearing the SArIraka-bhASya, a commentary by SaGkarAcArya advocating that one impersonally consider oneself the Supreme Lord. Such MAyAvAda philosophical commentaries upon the VedAnta-sUtra are simply imaginary, but there are other commentaries on the VedAnta-sUtra. The commentary by SrIla RAmAnujAcArya, known as SrI-bhASya, establishes the viziSTAdvaita-vAda philosophy. Similarly, in the Brahma-sampradAya, MadhvAcArya's PUrNaprajJa-bhASya establishes zuddha-dvaita-vAda. In the KumAra-sampradAya, or NimbArka-sampradAya, SrI NimbArka establishes the philosophy of dvaitAdvaita-vAda in the PArijAta-saurabha-bhASya. And in the ViSNu-svAmi-sampradAya, or Rudra-sampradAya, which comes from Lord Siva, ViSNu SvAmI has written a commentary called SarvajJa-bhASya, which establishes zuddhAdvaita-vAda. A VaiSNava should study the commentaries on the VedAnta-sUtra written by the four sampradAya-AcAryas, namely SrI RAmAnujAcArya, MadhvAcArya, ViSNu SvAmI and NimbArka, for these commentaries are based upon the philosophy that the Lord is the master and that all living entities are His eternal servants. One interested in studying VedAnta philosophy properly must study these commentaries, especially if he is a VaiSNava. These commentaries are always adored by VaiSNavas. The commentary by SrIla BhaktisiddhAnta SarasvatI is elaborately given in the Adi-lIlA, Chapter Seven, text 101. The MAyAvAda commentary SArIraka-bhASya is like poison for a VaiSNava. It should not be touched at all. SrIla Bhaktivinoda ThAkura remarks that even a mahA-bhAgavata, or highly elevated devotee who has surrendered himself unto the lotus feet of KRSNa, sometimes falls down from pure devotional service if he hears the MAyAvAda philosophy of the SArIraka-bhASya. This commentary should therefore be shunned by all VaiSNavas. TLK (Teachings of Lord Kapila) verse 31p; We have to accept KRSNa through the disciplic succession. There are four sampradAyas, disciplic successions. One comes from Lord BrahmA (the Brahma-sampradAya), and another comes from LakSmI, the goddess of fortune, (the SrI-sampradAya). There are also the KumAra-sampradAya and the Rudra-sampradAya. At the present moment, the BrahmA sampradAya is represented by the Madhva-sampradAya, and we belong to the Madhva-GauDIya-sampradAya. Our original sampradAya stems from MadhvAcArya. In that sampradAya there was MAdhavendra PurI, and MAdhavendra PurI's disciple was SrI Izvara PurI. SrI Izvara PurI's disciple was Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu. Thus we are coming in the disciplic succession from SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu, and therefore our sampradAya is called the Madhva-GauDIya-sampradAya. It is not that we have manufactured a sampradAya; rather, our sampradAya stems from Lord BrahmA. There is also the RAmAnuja-sampradAya, which comes from the SrI-sampradAya, and there is the ViSNusvAmI-sampradAya, which comes from the Rudra-sampradAya. The NimbAditya-sampradAya comes from the KumAra-sampradAya. If we do not belong to any sampradAya, our conclusion is fruitless. It is not that one should think, "I am a big scholar, and I can interpret Bhagavad-gItA in my own way. All these sampradAyas are useless." We cannot manufacture our own comments. There are many commentaries made in this way, and they are all useless. They have no effect. We have to accept the philosophy as it was contemplated by Lord BrahmA, NArada, MadhvAcArya, MAdhavendra PurI and Izvara PurI. These great AcAryas are beyond the imperfections of so-called scholars. Mundane scientists and philosophers use the words "perhaps" and "maybe" because they cannot arrive at a proper conclusion. They are simply speculating, and mental speculation cannot be perfect. SrImad-BhAgavatam 6.3.20–21 [bhAgavata-dharma, the principles of religion] is understandable if one follows the paramparA system of Lord BrahmA, Lord Siva, the four KumAras and the other standard authorities. There are four lines of disciplic succession: one from Lord BrahmA, one from Lord Siva, one from LakSmI, the goddess of fortune, and one from the KumAras. The disciplic succession from Lord BrahmA is called the Brahma-sampradAya, the succession from Lord Siva (Sambhu) is called the Rudra-sampradAya, the one from the goddess of fortune, LakSmIjI, is called the SrI-sampradAya, and the one from the KumAras is called the KumAra-sampradAya. One must take shelter of one of these four sampradAyas in order to understand the most confidential religious system. In the Padma PurANa it is said, sampradAya-vihInA ye mantrAs te niSphalA matAH: if one does not follow the four recognized disciplic successions, his mantra or initiation is useless. In the present day there are many apa-sampradAyas, or sampradAyas which are not bona fide, which have no link to authorities like Lord BrahmA, Lord Siva, the KumAras or LakSmI. People are misguided by such sampradAyas. The zAstras say that being initiated in such a sampradAya is a useless waste of time, for it will never enable one to understand the real religious principles.

SB 7.11.31: <center> prAyaH sva-bhAva-vihito nRNAM dharmo yuge yuge veda-dRgbhiH smRto rAjan pretya ceha ca zarma-kRt </center> prAyaH--generally; sva-bhAva-vihitaH--prescribed, according to one's material modes of nature; nRNAm--of human society; dharmaH--the occupational duty; yuge yuge--in every age; veda-dRgbhiH--by brAhmaNas well conversant in the Vedic knowledge; smRtaH--recognized; rAjan--O King; pretya--after death; ca--and; iha--here (in this body); ca--also; zarma-kRt--auspicious. My dear King, brAhmaNas well conversant in Vedic knowledge have given their verdict that in every age [yuga] the conduct of different sections of people according to their material modes of nature is auspicious both in this life and after death. PURPORT In Bhagavad-gItA (3.35) it is said, zreyAn sva-dharmo viguNaH para-dharmAt svanuSThitAt: "It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though they may be faulty, than another's duties." The antyajas, the men of the lower classes, are accustomed to stealing, drinking and illicit sex, but that is not considered sinful. For example, if a tiger kills a man, this is not sinful but if a man kills another man, this is considered sinful, and the killer is hanged. What is a daily affair among the animals is a sinful act in human society. Thus according to the symptoms of higher and lower sections of society, there are different varieties of occupational duties. According to the experts in Vedic knowledge, these duties are prescribed in terms of the age concerned. SB 10.14.31: <center> tad astu me nAtha sa bhUri-bhAgo bhave 'tra vAnyatra tu vA tirazcAm yenAham eko 'pi bhavaj-janAnAM bhUtvA niSeve tava pAda-pallavam </center> tat--therefore; astu--may it be; me--my; nAtha--O master; saH--that; bhUri-bhAgaH--greatest good fortune; bhave--in the birth; atra--this; vA--or; anyatra--in some other birth; tu--indeed; vA--or; tirazcAm--among the animals; yena--by which; aham--I; ekaH--one; api--even; bhavat--or Your; janAnAm--devotees; bhUtvA--becoming; niSeve--I may fully engage in serving; tava--Your; pAda-pallavam--lotus feet. My dear Lord, I therefore pray to be so fortunate that in this life as Lord BrahmA or in another life, wherever I take my birth, I may be counted as one of Your devotees. I pray that wherever I may be, even among the animal species, I can engage in devotional service to Your lotus feet.

I think it is a 'time and circumstance' thing. What can one say to such people, to people who have already abandoned two other religions promulgated by Moses and Christ, to a war-ravaged people for whom the sword has dictated truth for millenia? It is written that God comes to all species - even the tigers will have their perfect dharma, their perfect guru.

A friend here always used to remind us to 'take the essence'. When we boil it down we end up preaching like Jesus. These poor creatures don't have a lot of time to spare for religion. Simple gets through. Srila Sridhara Maharja was an expert at boiling it down to the essence - jargon gone, details gone, just the essential Truth. At times, he sounds more like Jesus than Jesus. Perhaps Jesus and his disciples left us with no theology, ontology, philosophy, theology or religion just so we wouldn't get confused, just to highlight the essence. No one can argue with the essence. Reenforce the essence and they will benefit from your encounter.

It's about sincerity. It's about falling in love. The methods of the Gita help us get free from the drama of the senses. Then we can just BE, and when we get real like that we naturally fall in love with Krsna. Just let Him take control, then He'll choose the methods and magic best suited to lead you home. It's really not complicated. Of course, if we need exotic and complicated, He can satisfy that need too. Whatever it takes, somehow or other, try to remember Krsna. That's the well-known secret.

<center></center> If we listen to Srila Prabhupada speak about Lord Jesus Christ then we cannot even think for a moment that he is trying to snow his audience. That love he had for Jesus cannot be feigned like an actor in a play. Mahaksadasa is very right: twisting and spinning Prabhupada's words to serve our own prejudices and lack of realization is simply offensive. So we see the progression of offending many vaishnavas, to offending Christ, and finally to offending Srila Prabhupada himself. Why so many offences over and over? What is it we want that we need to fall so far, so quickly?

But then, we can see who is on the mental platform and who is sincere. Most of 'religion' is just ego maintenance, no different than the 'my car is bigger than your car' mentality. Quarrel and hyprocrisy is the natural by-product of this Kali swing furthest from God, like a comet whose path approaches chaos before gradually getting drawn back to the center of its orbit, minimal gravity influences and minimal God influences. And by the way, my God IS bigger than your God. And my God can beat up your God. A proud son, gHari

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/443853-why-sb-called-spotless-purana.html?highlight=spotless

From 'A Garland of Vaisnava Truths' by Srila Bhaktivinoda: Q. What command has the supremely worshipable Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu given to us? A. His order is this: that we very carefully observe the nine instructions of truth that Sri Madhvacarya has given us through the guru-parampara (disciplic succession). Q. Who form the guru-parampara? A. The adi-guru (original guru) of all the spiritual masters in the disciplic succession is Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Showing His great mercy, He gave instructions in the truth to Lord Brahma, the adi-kavi (original poet). These truths were in turn taught by Brahma to Sri Narada, by Narada to Vyasa, and successively from Vyasa to Sri Madhvacarya. Such instructions received through this disciplic succession are called Guru-Parampara-Upadesa. Q. What are the names of these nine instructions given by Sri Madhvacarya? A. Their names are thus: 1) Bhagavan alone is the Supreme truth, one without a second. 2) He is the object of knowledge in all the Vedas. 3) The universe is real [satya]. 4) Differences [between Isvara, jiva and matter] are real. 5) Jiva souls are the servants of Lord Hari. 6) All souls are different according to their different situations. 7) Liberation [moksa] is the name of attainment of Bhagavan's feet. 8) Bhagavan's pure worship [amala bhajana] is the only way to attain liberation. 9) Pratyaksa [direct perception], anumana [logic], and sabda [spiritual sound] are the three types of evidence. I notice that we see "AMALA" again here in point eight, spotless bhajana.

Are you dying, Max?

Acintya bhedAbheda. He is the Father, the cause of all causes, sarva-kAraNa-kAraNam. Even His energies and paraphenalia are acintya bhedAbheda. Even Srimati Radharani is acintya bhedAbheda forever for His enjoyment in pastimes. From Sri Krsna's viewpoint, He is the Father, the Cause, the Shelter, the Reason, [url="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1063665"]acintya bhedAbheda.

as pearls are strung on a thread ............. Father http://vedabase.net/bg/7/7/en

Si amigo.