gHari

This article reminded me of the pamphlet the Presbyterian Church of Canada printed for the Hare Krishna Movement. They had some psychologist write it. I read it and after two years of working for them, I was gone in two weeks. There was not one word of truth in it, except the first sentence "ISKCON, the Hare Krishna Movement was founded by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada".. They had to resort to getting a demonic scientist to write it, for no clergyman no matter how twisted he was could write such drivel without being struck down by lightning. I remain ashamed of them to this day.

Theist summed up perfectly our position in this godless world: "cannot establish any depth of relationship for reasons known to all of us". Amen brother. And really, could we stomach the prajalpa more than a few minutes anyway?

Preacher man --- I think Theist's angle is from that of a fellow seeker. I think maybe I tend to do it as a friend out in the outlands --- or as a standup comedian. People baulk if you suppose you know something.

When I read Prabhupada it is a different process than when I read anyone else. Anyone. The internal 'editor' is never present with him, the words just go in. That's why I quote him all the time. When I write, it is Prabhupada boiled down and condensed so much that I feel sure at times I must sound totally insane to some. But they too must have their 'editors' turned on, and I do seem crazy to them indeed (not readily reachable from known premises). But when I encounter an old post from years ago, it all sounds still correct, sometimes even more correct than I now understand or even understood when it was written. I know when I use giant steps, I lose everyone - and wonder why can't anyone see just how incredibly profound that is, but I guess it was meant for me at the time. I'm so used to working with the worldly that my 'preaching' style has become absolutely nonsectarean. What a joy it is to be able to say Krsna or Rama when an Indian comes into my dry life in the wilderness. I will say that I firmly believe that the 'editor' is an important function to implement, especially here on the net filled with lions and tigers and bears. Providing quotes helps the 'editor' handle incoming messages, allowing realizations to be processed with higher degrees of credibility. Unfortunately I tend to be either all quote or all poetic schmaltz. Perhaps a happy medium will offer others more comfort. At the risk of venturing beyond my dwindling audience's attention span, let me thank all the regulars that have made the Fellowship the place I choose to call HOME in cyberspace. You have dictated over the many years what I will think about and write about. You have offered encouragement and hope and a well for my tears over the years. It has been your surrender that has pushed my surrender - your love that has kindled my love. We are few; and we are fortunate. This may be the most glorious space in cyberdome. Thank you all for being here. Can you imagine how wonderful it would be to meet in person another Audaryan in the real world? My tears would drown the world. Perhaps before we leave this dusty world we should all get together at our gracious host's ashram for a kirtana of tears, rolling on the ground in mad laughter for a few days.

I'm sure some would say that I am now but a mere shadow of my former self. Perhaps it is home for those who have offended Vivasvan and therefore can never see him. I imagine they would worship the earth much like neophyte religionists here worship the sun. So much like earth, Rahu could almost pass as a demigod when the nectar flowed. But then he lost his body and now he cannot move of his accord .... he must be dragged about by the earth and the sun forever. These speculations I fantasize about are likely not valid, but they do suggest that there are probably many possible explanations to explore before we find the right one ... and the right one will be out there if this one seems to fit well enough for today. The ultimate story-teller likely has made this one both history and allegory; inconceivably, simultaneously, fact and metaphor for our benefit, like a puppet show a father plans for his kids.

If we accept the planet, Rahu as that area which the earth blocks from the sun, then it is fitting that a demon would control it. The happiness of the sun is nowhere there. Sometimes this planet (the personality of the earth's shadow) travels in front of the moon. The pastime on the higher level is given in the Bhagavatam, but with this material understanding we can be happy with the scientific speculations as well. That will be the answer. How the upper pastimes are mapped into our physical reality could well be a fascinating study indeed. That is, if we hadn't been bitten by that poisonous snake.

Srila Prabhupada lectures about too much allegory: So tvAM zIla-rUpa-caritaiH parama-prakRSTaiH. So when incarnation of God comes, He performs wonderful acts. Like KRSNa--He performed wonderful acts. Leaving all things aside, simply if we take the Bhagavad-gItA, that wonderful philosophy... Nobody can deliver such... [break] There is no history in the world, no comparison, such full information of the science of God. And other acts we hear from..., just like in childhood He played so many wonderful things. So those who are surrendered, they believe and therefore they receive the desired result. TvAM zIla-rUpa-caritaiH parama-prakRSTaiH. And the activities of God and His representative are described where? In scriptures, book of authority. VyAsadeva had no business, or Sukadeva GosvAmI had no business to describe some fiction, some allegory . Just like fools, they interpret zAstras, "This means this. This means that," according to their own..., as if God left for commentary of that fool, left everything for commentation for that fool. Just like in the Bhagavad-gItA in the beginning it is stated, dharma-kSetre kuru-kSetre samavetA yuyutsavaH [bg. 1.1]. Now, this dharma-kSetra, kuru-kSetra, is described by some eminent politician as this body. Now, there is no dictionary in the world where it is stated that kuru-kSetra means this body, but still, he is interpreting in that way, as if KRSNa left for him that "In future kuru-kSetra meaning will be disclosed by that fool." So these things are going on. These things are going on. And people are captivated by nice explanation. Oh, the theory is that "Everyone can interpret in his own way, everyone is free, everyone is God," and everything, all nonsense. No. We should give up that nonsensical way of realizing God. We should learn from the authorized scripture. Sattvena sAttvikatayA prabalaiz ca zAstraiH. SAstraiH, in the scriptures, they are described. Now, that scriptures are to be accepted without any argument. Without any argument... Just we have given the example of cow dung. The cow dung is stated as purest. In one place it is stated that "Stool of animal is impure. If anyone touches, he will have to take his bath and then purify himself." But for cow dung it is stated, "If there is any impure place, just smear over it cow dung and it will be all nice." Now, argument is, "How is that, that one place you say that stool of animal is impure, and again one place you say cow dung is pure?" That is not contradiction. That is actually the fact. And modern scientists have analyzed cow dung, and he has found it is full of antiseptic properties. It is God's wish. Now, take for example cow. What cow eating? Grass, dry grass. And what it is producing? It is producing the nicest thing, milk, full of vitamins. Now, if you think, "Oh, then a dry grass and straw contains all vitamins. Let me eat," you will die. You will die. It is God's arrangement. The cow can produce the most vitaminous foodstuff by eating the dry grass. It is God's desire. The cow will eat at least twenty pounds of grass, and how it can eat the grains? It is not possible. So just like elephant--it will eat hundred pounds of thing. He must eat all these branches and twigs. So everything is God's arrangement. We have to accept that. Sattvena sAttvikatayA prabalaiz ca zAstraiH. So in the authoritative zAstra, the activities of God is mentioned there, and practically it is demonstrated when God is present. And prakhyAta-daiva-paramArtha-vidAM mataiz ca. Mata means opinion. Just like we try to take opinion from a person who is accepted. Just like you are selling your Back to Godhead by Ginsberg's name because he is popular. So similarly, there are popular representative, popular authors, just like VyAsadeva, NArada, Asita, Devala, KumAra, Kapila, Manu. They have accepted. They have accepted. Even in the modern age, SaGkarAcArya, he accepted Lord KRSNa the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And what to speak of other AcAryas. They have... They are VaiSNavas. They will naturally. So we have to follow. MahAjano yena gataH sa panthAH [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. So there are opinions of great scholars and stalwarts, and there is mention in the zAstra, in the scriptures. And the activities have shown practically. So these things are there. And still, those who are atheists, they will not do it. They will not do it. Similarly, the other part is that, ullaGhita-trividha-sIma-samAtIzAyi- sambhAvanaM tava parivraDhima-svabhAvam mAyA-balena bhavatApi nighuHyamAnaM pazyanti kecid anizaM tvad-ananya-bhAvAH [Cc. Adi 3.89] Similarly, God may hide Himself by His yogamAyA, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gItA: nAhaM prakAzaH sarvasya yogamAyA-samAvRtaH [bg. 7.25]. YogamAyA-samAvRtaH. Just like the sun is covered by the glaring disk. You will find if you look into the sun disk you will find a one circle is moving like that. Similarly, in the UpaniSad also, we find that the Supreme Lord is hidden within the brahmajyoti. The exact verse I forget just now. It is stated that "Please remove this cover so that I can see You actually." So within the brahmajyoti there is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So ordinarily people are amazed with simply brahmajyoti. They do not go deep into the matter. So ullaGhita-trividha-sIma-samAtIzAyi. God is beyond the limitation of our thinking and philosophical speculation. SambhAvanaM tava parivraDhima-svabhAvam: "Your very grave and confidential activities, it is very difficult to understand by ordinary men." MAyA-balena bhavatApi niguhyamAnam. MAyA-balena: "That yogamAyA, although it is covered in that way all Your activities," pazyanti, "somebody can see You." Pazyanty kecid anizam: "Not sometimes or accidentally, but anizam, continually, he can see You." Pazyanti kecid anizam tvad-ananya-bhAvAH. Ananya-bhAvAH means "Those who have unflinching devotion unto You." They can see. PremAJjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [bs. 5.38]. Although God is covered in that way... There is very good instance in the SrImad-BhAgavatam. While KRSNa was dancing with the vraja-gopIs, He all of a sudden disappeared and all the gopIs, they became mad after Him and began to search in the forest: "Where is KRSNa?" So KRSNa, at one place, He situated Himself as ViSNu, as ViSNu, with four hands. Then gopIs, in their search after KRSNa, they saw: "Here is ViSNu sitting." So they did not care. "Oh, He is ViSNu. We don't want." Now see. They are seeing ViSNu is sitting, but they do not care for ViSNu: "Oh, we don't want this." They do not care for even ViSNu. They are searching after KRSNa. And when RAdhArANI came, KRSNa could not hide Himself with four hands. He had to become two-handed. The RAdhArANI's love was so forceful that KRSNa could not retain His hiding, I mean to say, feature of ViSNu. So for other gopIs He could hide Himself, but they did not care. They simply offered their..., "Oh, ViSNu. All right." But they want KRSNa. But when RAdhArANI came, KRSNa could not hide Himself with His four hands. He became immediately two-handed as KRSNa. So it is the force of love. It is the force of ecstasy that will help you in understanding the science of KRSNa, not other way. Not other. You cannot make a speculation; you cannot... Because what is your power of speculating power? Your senses are limited. In conditioned stage our power of, I mean to say, acquiring knowledge through the senses, that is limited. So by limited senses you cannot go. Therefore acintya. AcintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkeNa yojayet. Acintya. It is beyond our jurisdiction of thinking, understanding. So there is no other alternative than to follow this principle, follow this principle, to follow the opinion of AcArya. AcAryopAsanam. In the Bhagavad-gItA it is stated, "If if you want to make progress in knowledge, then you have to follow." AcAryopAsanam: "You have to worship AcArya." AcAryopAsanam. In the Veda it is: AcAryavAn puruSo veda. Veda means knowledge, one who knows. Who knows? "Who has got AcArya to guide him." AcAryavAn puruSo veda. So similarly, therefore, this Vedic system always gives us injunction. Tad-vijJAnArthaM sa gurum evAbhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "One must go to the authority." And how to become authority? There is no question of research, this research. Just like in the material world one becomes doctorate by research work, here there is no question of research. You simply have to accept what is stated in the Veda. That's all. That makes you all right. Research is already done. There is no question of taking trouble yourself. You simply accept. Just like KRSNa says, sarva-dharmAn parityajya mAm ekaM zaraNaM vraja: [bg. 18.66] "You give up everything and surrender unto Me." And if we foolishly go on seeing, "Oh, why shall I surrender?" as some very learned commentator, "Not to KRSNa, but somebody else..." Not like that. KRSNa says, "Surrender." Surrender yourself and you will see how you are making progress. That is the thing. KRSNa says, "You surrender." You surrender. That will make you happy. There is no question, "All right. Let me research, make research whether by surrendering to KRSNa I shall be happy." Go on. You can. If you want, you can go on researching. But you will never be successful to... Even in the Brahma-saMhitA it is stated, panthAs tu koTi-zata-vatsara-sampragamyaH. If you make research in a speed, and the speed is stated, koTi-zata-vatsara-sampragamyo vAyor athApi manaso muni-puGgavAnAm... Just like if you want to cover a path which is very long, and how you measure its length? Now, by research. What is that research? Now, you go on by force. What is that force? The force of mind and force of velocity of the wind, velocity of the wind and velocity of the mind. And you push on in that way for ten millions or more than years in that way, still, you will find avicintya: you have not reached the goal. Research. If you make your research in such a speed and for many millions of years, still, avicintya-tattva, still it will be inconceivable. So the best thing is that to believe it, and accept the opinion of authorities, and believe by the activities of God and His incarnation, and submit yourself to get the thing. That's all. Thank you very much. Any question? (end)

We have to be very careful here. At some level of reality is not Vivasvan riding a one-wheeled chariot around causing his material form, the sun to travel in its orbit? It seems to be a lot of setup in the Bhagavatam, in terms of Rahu's father and mother and jugs of nectar and Dhanvantari and MohinI-mUrti and Kurma and so much more, just to set up a "sillly myth". Will it all fold like a house of cards if we start dismissing paradoxes and the extraordinary as allegory and myth?

I stayed awake all night, then went out sitting in a folding chair drowning in the mahamantra, like when Lord Caitanya appeared. Rahu wasn't going to dump bloody inauspiciousness on this boy's life. No way, Jose. But that coward, Rahu didn't come. I went back to the net and got the times right, then suddenly from my window I caught Rahu eating up the moon, starting at the top. I knew if the mahamantra continued Lord Visnu would eventually come and chase the immortal head of Rahu away. It took some time, a few hours actually, but Rahu at last left Sleepy Hollow and the moon became spotless again. Except for a few rabbit footprints here and there. Allegory and history - I personally accept that my Lord Sri Krsna who is so creative and grand and flamboyant actually creates a history that itself is the story, the lesson. He is the ultimate artist using physical reality as a canvas, the ultimate preacher using every second as a metaphor. So for the great history-versus-allegory debate, I have to take the 'acintya' humble vote. ALLEGORY: Vrindavana 7 November, 1972 My Dear Krsnadasa, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that vedaham samatitani vartamanani carjuna bhavisyani ca bhutani mam tu veda na kascana [bg. 7.26] that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise. But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King Puranjana. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations . So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet . The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version: gam avisya ca bhutani dharayamy aham ojasa pusnami causadhih sarvah somo bhutvah rasatmakah (BG, 15.13) ``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know . Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: ``Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and you mam evam asammudho janati purusottamam sa sarva-vid bhajati mam (BG, XV, 19) ``Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''--this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

SB 5.24.1 SrI Sukadeva GosvAmI said: My dear King, some historians, the speakers of the PurANas, say that 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles] below the sun is the planet known as RAhu, which moves like one of the stars. The presiding deity of that planet, who is the son of SiMhikA, is the most abominable of all asuras, but although he is completely unfit to assume the position of a demigod or planetary deity, he has achieved that position by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Later I shall speak further about him. SB 5.24.2 The sun globe, which is a source of heat, extends for 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles]. The moon extends for 20,000 yojanas [160,000 miles], and RAhu extends for 30,000 yojanas [240,000 miles]. Formerly, when nectar was being distributed, RAhu tried to create dissension between the sun and moon by interposing himself between them. RAhu is inimical toward both the sun and the moon, and therefore he always tries to cover the sunshine and moonshine on the dark-moon day and full-moon night. SB 5.24.3 After hearing from the sun and moon demigods about RAhu's attack, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, ViSNu, engages His disc, known as the Sudarzana cakra, to protect them. The Sudarzana cakra is the Lord's most beloved devotee and is favored by the Lord. The intense heat of its effulgence, meant for killing non-VaiSNavas, is unbearable to RAhu, and he therefore flees in fear of it. During the time RAhu disturbs the sun or moon, there occurs what people commonly know as an eclipse. PURPORT The Supreme Personality of Godhead, ViSNu, is always the protector of His devotees, who are also known as demigods. The controlling demigods are most obedient to Lord ViSNu, although they also want material sense enjoyment, and that is why they are called demigods, or almost godly. Although RAhu attempts to attack both the sun and the moon, they are protected by Lord ViSNu. Being very afraid of Lord ViSNu's cakra, RAhu cannot stay in front of the sun or moon for more than a muhUrta (forty-eight minutes). The phenomenon that occurs when RAhu blocks the light of the sun or moon is called an eclipse. The attempt of the scientists of this earth to go to the moon is as demoniac as RAhu's attack. Of course. their attempts will be failures because no one can enter the moon or sun so easily. Like the attack of RAhu, such attempts will certainly be failures. SB 6.6.37 In his wife SiMhikA, Vipracitti begot one hundred and one sons, of whom the eldest is RAhu and the others are the one hundred Ketus. All of them attained positions in the influential planets. SB 6.18 Summary [...] The demons born of Diti are also described in this chapter. In the dynasty of Diti appeared the great saintly devotee PrahlAda and also Bali, PrahlAda's grandson. HiraNyakazipu and HiraNyAkSa were the first sons of Diti. HiraNyakazipu and his wife, whose name was KayAdhu, had four sons--SaMhlAda, AnuhlAda, HlAda and PrahlAda. They also had one daughter, whose name was SiMhikA. In association with the demon Vipracit, SiMhikA bore a son named RAhu, whose head was severed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. KRti, the wife of SaMhlAda, bore a son named PaJcajana. HlAda's wife, whose name was Dhamani, gave birth to two sons--VAtApi and Ilvala. Ilvala put VAtApi into the form of a ram and gave him to Agastya to eat. AnuhlAda, in the womb of his wife, SUryA, begot two sons, named BASkala and MahiSa. PrahlAda's son was known as Virocana, and his grandson was known as Bali MahArAja. Bali MahArAja had one hundred sons, of whom BANa was the eldest. [...] SB 6.18.12 The wife of HiraNyakazipu was known as KayAdhu. She was the daughter of Jambha and a descendant of Danu. She gave birth to four consecutive sons, known as SaMhlAda, AnuhlAda, HlAda and PrahlAda. The sister of these four sons was known as SiMhikA. She married the demon named Vipracit and gave birth to another demon, named RAhu. SB 6.18.14 While RAhu, in disguise, was drinking nectar among the demigods, the Supreme Personality of Godhead severed his head. The wife of SaMhlAda was named KRti. By union with SaMhlAda, KRti gave birth to a son named PaJcajana. SB 8.9 Summary This chapter describes how the demons, being enchanted by the beauty of the MohinI form, agreed to hand over the container of nectar to MohinIdevI, who tactfully delivered it to the demigods. When the demons got possession of the container of nectar, an extraordinarily beautiful young woman appeared before them. All the demons became captivated by the young woman's beauty and became attached to Her. Now, because the demons were fighting among themselves to possess the nectar, they selected this beautiful woman as a mediator to settle their quarrel. Taking advantage of their weakness in this regard, MohinI, the incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, got the demons to promise that whatever decision She might give, they would not refuse to accept it. When the demons made this promise, the beautiful woman, MohinI-mUrti, had the demigods and demons sit in different lines so that She could distribute the nectar. She knew that the demons were quite unfit to drink the nectar. Therefore, by cheating them She distributed all the nectar to the demigods. When the demons saw this cheating of MohinI-mUrti, they remained silent. But one demon, named RAhu, dressed himself like a demigod and sat down in the line of the demigods. He sat beside the sun and the moon. When the Supreme Personality of Godhead understood how RAhu was cheating, He immediately cut off the demon's head. RAhu, however, had already tasted the nectar, and therefore although his head was severed, he remained alive. After the demigods finished drinking the nectar, the Supreme Personality of Godhead assumed His own form. Sukadeva GosvAmI ends this chapter by describing how powerful is the chanting of the holy names, pastimes and paraphernalia of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. SB 8.9.24-27 RAhu, the demon who causes eclipses of the sun and moon, covered himself with the dress of a demigod and thus entered the assembly of the demigods and drank nectar without being detected by anyone, even by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The moon and the sun, however, because of permanent animosity toward RAhu, understood the situation. Thus RAhu was detected. PURPORT The Supreme Personality of Godhead, MohinI-mUrti, was able to bewilder all the demons, but RAhu was so clever that he was not bewildered. RAhu could understand that MohinI-mUrti was cheating the demons, and therefore he changed his dress, disguised himself as a demigod, and sat down in the assembly of the demigods. Here one may ask why the Supreme Personality of Godhead could not detect RAhu. The reason is that the Lord wanted to show the effects of drinking nectar. This will be revealed in the following verses. The moon and sun, however, were always alert in regard to RAhu. Thus when RAhu entered the assembly of the demigods, the moon and sun immediately detected him, and then the Supreme Personality of Godhead also became aware of him. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, using His disc, which was sharp like a razor, at once cut off RAhu's head. When RAhu's head was severed from his body, the body, being untouched by the nectar, could not survive. PURPORT When the Personality of Godhead, MohinI-mUrti, severed RAhu's head from his body, the head remained alive although the body died. RAhu had been drinking nectar through his mouth, and before the nectar entered his body, his head was cut off. Thus RAhu's head remained alive whereas the body died. This wonderful act performed by the Lord was meant to show that nectar is miraculous ambrosia. RAhu's head, however, having been touched by the nectar, became immortal. Thus Lord BrahmA accepted RAhu's head as one of the planets. Since RAhu is an eternal enemy of the moon and the sun, he always tries to attack them on the nights of the full moon and the dark moon. PURPORT Since RAhu had become immortal, Lord BrahmA accepted him as one of the grahas, or planets, like the moon and the sun. RAhu, however, being an eternal enemy of the moon and sun, attacks them periodically during the nights of the full moon and the dark moon. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the best friend and well-wisher of the three worlds. Thus when the demigods had almost finished drinking the nectar, the Lord, in the presence of all the demons, disclosed His original form. SB 8.10.6 Both parties in that fight were extremely angry at heart, and in enmity they beat one another with swords, arrows and varieties of other weapons. PURPORT There are always two kinds of men in this universe, not only on this planet but also in higher planetary systems. All the kings dominating planets like the sun and moon also have enemies like RAhu. It is because of occasional attacks upon the sun and moon by RAhu that eclipses take place. The fighting between the demons and demigods is perpetual; it cannot be stopped unless intelligent persons from both sides take to KRSNa consciousness. SB 8.10.30 The demigod AparAjita fought with Namuci, and the two AzvinI-kumAra brothers fought with VRSaparvA. The sun-god fought with the one hundred sons of MahArAja Bali, headed by BANa, and the moon-god fought with RAhu. The demigod controlling air fought with Puloma, and Sumbha and Nizumbha fought the supremely powerful material energy, DurgAdevI, who is called Bhadra KAlI. SB 8.21.20 O Vipracitti, O RAhu, O Nemi, please hear my words! Don’t fight. Stop immediately, for the present time is not in our favor. CC Adi 13.92 Considering this, RAhu, the black planet, covered the full moon, and immediately vibrations of "KRSNa! KRSNa! Hari!" inundated the three worlds. PURPORT According to the Jyotir-veda, a lunar eclipse takes place when the RAhu planet comes in front of the full moon. It is customary in India that all the followers of the Vedic scriptures bathe in the Ganges or the sea as soon as there is a lunar or solar eclipse. All strict followers of the Vedic religion stand up in the water throughout the whole period of the eclipse and chant the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra. At the time of the birth of Lord Caitanya MahAprabhu, such a lunar eclipse took place, and naturally all the people standing in the water were chanting Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare.

The shadow of the earth, where is it when it's not falling on (or eating) the moon? Is this mystical shadow known as Rahu? That is, when the earth blocks the influence of Vivasvan is Rahu born? Maybe we'll find a pastime here of the demigods that explains clearly just who Rahu is, and therefore how and why he manifests in the physical realm. An example just so we can see it is not all so very far-fetched: S + E get together and produce an offspring, R who periodically influences E's associate, M. But I will be out there with binoculars for this one. Maybe the answer will be revealed. Maybe it won't. I take what I get. Thankfully. Give us this day our daily buddhi-yogam. Forever and ever, Amen

"all of the world is needy and at your front door" Words for us all.

This certainly is a topic that should appear on a neophyte internet discussion forum, where the cheated come to be cheated by the cheated.

The good doctor is diagnosing himself. We all do it, but don't always recognize it. For someone who ignores detailed responses to his direct "questions", likely not even reading the response because it didn't fit into his preset agenda/campaign/timeframe, complaining about others showing disinterest for some topics seems perhaps a little confusing.

I can talk about a small portion of the great epic, the part popularly known as the Bhagavad-gita. Essentially the Bhagavad-gita teaches us to become sincere. The conditioned soul has so many desires and attachments that cause us to forget our real situation. We forget God, the most amazing part of existing. So we spend our lives running here and there, building and maintaining our egos, thrilling our senses, and generally avoiding God at every step. This isn't our reality. We must get real, get sincere about being alive. Krsna outlines a number of yogic processes that can help us extricate ourselves from the daily drama of the physical plane. Eventually if we follow His instruction with some degree of sincerity, we can realize more and more our best interest is Sri Krsna. Arjuna becomes overwhelmed, sits down, and decides to forget Krsna's desire. That is the state most find themselves in. However, Lord Krishna is Arjuna's best friend - He will not let His friend perish in futility. Krsna offers so much good loving advice to Arjuna on the battlefield. He lifts Arjuna up with knowledge and renunciation, and then Arjuna's despair is conquered. He again has a purpose, a direction, a reason to continue. And in the center, is Bhagavan Sri Krsna. And that is what life is about. The Gita teaches us how to become real, sincere about life, and from there, only the miraculous awaits our every moment.

Our own Bhakta Don was told by the State of Saskatchewan in Canada that "We don't handle Krsna here" when he voiced concerns over religious discrimination. It is all still trickling slowly down from the intelligent class to the hillbillies. I think it's just another guna thing that will take time to purify the ears and taste of the West. The Pharisee clergy, fearing for their jobs have had their hearts closed, revealing their shameful insincerity. They may well be the last rednecks to wake up. As far as governments are concerned, politicians will still attend the festivals. Like kissing babies, it's the thing to do with those simple Indian folk and their colourful customs.

There is no rgeater pleasure in this world than chanting Hare Krsna. Dive deeply into it and know that it has for you everything you could possibly want; and so much more than you could even imagine.

After being punched in the nose, I learn that it's not nice to punch people in the nose. It may have been ten years ago that I punched my brother in the nose; still I now know it is not a good thing. There is likely a long long list of reactions one must pass through, each lesson taking a varying length of time to orchestrate. So the simple logistics of streaming them through our consciousness must be unfathomable. It is really little wonder that they require lifetimes to schedule, since even during reactions we generate more required reactions. In order to believe that we really are the controllers of the world so very much ignorance must have passed by our consciousness lifetime after lifetime. On the way back from all these attachments, it is not unreasonable to assume that this will be a tremendously long time too. Just clambering up to the human form must have been a grind; yet still we want to kill and taste blood like we did as animals. Some habits are hard to break when the attachment is so strong and the conditioning period so very long.

I woke up once and everyone outside was chanting Hare Krsna loudly, kirtana parties everywhere. I became really happy and the great burden was lifted. Then I really woke up and found it had been a dream about waking up.

Not on something so basic. What will differ are our definitions of "'sage and enlightenment" depending on our own prejudices and preconceptions. Some of us just don't have the time.

The following is from the very advanced biography of the great 16th century scholar and saint, Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is known as Gauranga, (Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Adi 1.90-93): <center> ajJAna-tamera nAma kahiye ‘kaitava' dharma-artha-kAma-mokSa-vAJchA Adi saba </center> ajJAna-tamera--of the darkness of ignorance; nAma--name; kahiye--I call; kaitava--cheating process; dharma--religiosity; artha--economic development; kAma--sense gratification; mokSa--liberation; vAJchA--desire for; Adi--and so on; saba--all. The darkness of ignorance is called kaitava, the way of cheating, which begins with religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and liberation. <center> dharmaH projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarANAM satAM vedyaM vAstavam atra vastu ziva-daM tApa-trayonmUlanam zrImad-bhAgavate mahA-muni-kRte kiM vA parair IzvaraH sadyo hRdy avarudhyate 'tra kRtibhiH zuzrUSubhis tat-kSaNAt </center> dharmaH--religiosity; projjhita--completely rejected; kaitavaH--in which fruitive intention; atra--herein; paramaH--the highest; nirmatsarANAm--of the one-hundred-percent pure in heart; satAm--devotees; vedyam--to be understood; vAstavam--factual; atra--herein; vastu--substance; ziva-dam--giving well-being; tApa-traya--of the threefold miseries; unmUlanam--causing uprooting; zrImat--beautiful; bhAgavate--in the BhAgavata PurANa; mahA-muni--by the great sage (VyAsadeva); kRte--compiled; kim--what; vA--indeed; paraiH--with others; IzvaraH--the Supreme Lord; sadyaH--at once; hRdi--within the heart; avarudhyate--becomes confined; atra--herein; kRtibhiH--by pious men; zuzrUSubhiH--desiring to hear; tat-kSaNAt--without delay. "The great scripture SrImad-BhAgavatam, compiled by MahA-muni VyAsadeva from four original verses, describes the most elevated and kindhearted devotees and completely rejects the cheating ways of materially motivated religiosity. It propounds the highest principle of eternal religion, which can factually mitigate the threefold miseries of a living being and award the highest benediction of full prosperity and knowledge. Those willing to hear the message of this scripture in a submissive attitude of service can at once capture the Supreme Lord in their hearts. Therefore there is no need for any scripture other than SrImad-BhAgavatam." PURPORT This verse appears in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.1.2) . The words mahA-muni-kRte indicate that SrImad-BhAgavatam was compiled by the great sage VyAsadeva, who is sometimes known as NArAyaNa MahA-muni because he is an incarnation of NArAyaNa. VyAsadeva, therefore, is not an ordinary man but is empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He compiled the beautiful BhAgavatam to narrate some of the pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His devotees. In SrImad-BhAgavatam, a distinction between real religion and pretentious religion has been clearly made. According to this original and genuine commentation on the VedAnta-sUtra, there are numerous pretentious faiths that pass as religion but neglect the real essence of religion. The real religion of a living being is his natural inborn quality, whereas pretentious religion is a form of nescience that artificially covers a living entity's pure consciousness under certain unfavorable conditions. Real religion lies dormant when artificial religion dominates from the mental plane. A living being can awaken this dormant religion by hearing with a pure heart. The path of religion prescribed by SrImad-BhAgavatam is different from all forms of imperfect religiosity. Religion can be considered in the following three divisions: (1) the path of fruitive work, (2) the path of knowledge and mystic powers, and (3) the path of worship and devotional service. The path of fruitive work (karma-kANDa), even when decorated by religious ceremonies meant to elevate one's material condition, is a cheating process because it can never enable one to gain relief from material existence and achieve the highest goal. A living entity perpetually struggles hard to rid himself of the pangs of material existence, but the path of fruitive work leads him to either temporary happiness or temporary distress in material existence. By pious fruitive work one is placed in a position where he can temporarily feel material happiness, whereas vicious activities lead him to a distressful position of material want and scarcity. However, even if one is put into the most perfect situation of material happiness, he cannot in that way become free from the pangs of birth, death, old age and disease. A materially happy person is therefore in need of the eternal relief that mundane religiosity in terms of fruitive work can never award. The paths of the culture of knowledge (jJAna-mArga) and of mystic powers (yoga-mArga) are equally hazardous, for one does not know where one will go by following these uncertain methods. An empiric philosopher in search of spiritual knowledge may endeavor most laboriously for many, many births in mental speculation, but unless and until he reaches the stage of the purest quality of goodness--in other words, until he transcends the plane of material speculation--it is not possible for him to know that everything emanates from the Personality of Godhead VAsudeva. His attachment to the impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord makes him unfit to rise to that transcendental stage of vasudeva understanding, and therefore because of his unclean state of mind he glides down again into material existence, even after having ascended to the highest stage of liberation. This falldown takes place due to his want of a locus standi in the service of the Supreme Lord. As far as the mystic powers of the yogIs are concerned, they are also material entanglements on the path of spiritual realization. One German scholar who became a devotee of Godhead in India said that material science had already made laudable progress in duplicating the mystic powers of the yogIs. He therefore came to India not to learn the methods of the yogIs' mystic powers but to learn the path of transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord, as mentioned in the great scripture SrImad-BhAgavatam. Mystic powers can make a yogI materially powerful and thus give temporary relief from the miseries of birth, death, old age and disease, as other material sciences can also do, but such mystic powers can never be a permanent source of relief from these miseries. Therefore, according to the BhAgavata school, this path of religiosity is also a method of cheating its followers. In the Bhagavad-gItA it is clearly defined that the most elevated and powerful mystic yogI is one who can constantly think of the Supreme Lord within his heart and engage in the loving service of the Lord. The path of worship of the innumerable devas, or administrative demigods, is still more hazardous and uncertain than the above-mentioned processes of karma-kANDa and jJAna-kANDa. This system of worshiping many gods, such as DurgA, Siva, GaNeza, SUrya and the impersonal ViSNu form, is accepted by persons who have been blinded by an intense desire for sense gratification. When properly executed in terms of the rites mentioned in the zAstras, which are now very difficult to perform in this age of want and scarcity, such worship can certainly fulfill one's desires for sense gratification, but the success obtained by such methods is certainly transient, and it is suitable only for a less intelligent person. That is the verdict of the Bhagavad-gItA. No sane man should be satisfied by such temporary benefits. None of the above-mentioned three religious paths can deliver a person from the threefold miseries of material existence, namely, miseries caused by the body and mind, miseries caused by other living entities, and miseries caused by the demigods. The process of religion described in SrImad-BhAgavatam, however, is able to give its followers permanent relief from the threefold miseries. The BhAgavatam describes the highest religious form--reinstatement of the living entity in his original position of transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord, which is free from the infections of desires for sense gratification, fruitive work, and the culture of knowledge with the aim of merging into the Absolute to become one with the Supreme Lord. Any process of religiosity based on sense gratification, gross or subtle, must be considered a pretentious religion because it is unable to give perpetual protection to its followers. The word projjhita is significant. Pra- means "complete," and ujjhita indicates rejection. Religiosity in the shape of fruitive work is directly a method of gross sense gratification, whereas the process of culturing spiritual knowledge with a view to becoming one with the Absolute is a method of subtle sense gratification. All such pretentious religiosity based on gross or subtle sense gratification is completely rejected in the process of bhAgavata-dharma, or the transcendental religion that is the eternal function of the living being. BhAgavata-dharma, or the religious principle described in SrImad-BhAgavatam, of which the Bhagavad-gItA is a preliminary study, is meant for liberated persons of the highest order, who attribute very little value to the sense gratification of pretentious religiosity. The first and foremost concern of fruitive workers, elevationists, empiric philosophers and salvationists is to raise their material position. But devotees of Godhead have no such selfish desires. They serve the Supreme Lord only for His satisfaction. SrI Arjuna, wanting to satisfy his senses by becoming a so-called nonviolent and pious man, at first decided not to fight. But when he was fully situated in the principles of bhAgavata-dharma, culminating in complete surrender unto the will of the Supreme Lord, he changed his decision and agreed to fight for the satisfaction of the Lord. He then said: <center> naSTo mohaH smRtir labdhA tvat-prasAdAn mayAcyuta sthito 'smi gata-sandehaH kariSye vacanaM tava </center> "My dear KRSNa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy. I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions." ( Bg. 18.73 ) It is the constitutional position of the living entity to be situated in this pure consciousness. Any so-called religious process that interferes with this unadulterated spiritual position of the living being must therefore be considered a pretentious process of religiosity. The real form of religion is spontaneous loving service to Godhead. This relationship of the living being with the Absolute Personality of Godhead in service is eternal. The Personality of Godhead is described as vastu, or the Substance, and the living entities are described as vAstavas, or the innumerable samples of the Substance in relative existence. The relationship of these substantive portions with the Supreme Substance can never be annihilated, for it is an eternal quality inherent in the living being. By contact with material nature the living entities exhibit varied symptoms of the disease of material consciousness. To cure this material disease is the supreme object of human life. The process that treats this disease is called bhAgavata-dharma, or sanAtana-dharma--real religion. This is described in the pages of SrImad-BhAgavatam. Therefore anyone who, because of his background of pious activities in previous lives, is anxious to hear SrImad-BhAgavatam immediately realizes the presence of the Supreme Lord within his heart and fulfills the mission of his life. <center> tAra madhye mokSa-vAJchA kaitava-pradhAna yAhA haite kRSNa-bhakti haya antardhAna </center> tAra--of them; madhye--in the midst; mokSa-vAJchA--the desire to merge into the Supreme; kaitava--of cheating processes; pradhAna--the chief; yAhA haite--from which; kRSNa-bhakti--devotion to Lord KRSNa; haya--becomes; antardhAna--disappearance. The foremost process of cheating is to desire to achieve liberation by merging into the Supreme, for this causes the permanent disappearance of loving service to KRSNa. PURPORT The desire to merge into the impersonal Brahman is the subtlest type of atheism. As soon as such atheism, disguised in the dress of liberation, is encouraged, one becomes completely unable to traverse the path of devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

It seems the author of this thread thinks his master is an idiot or a liar. Or perhaps the author understands neither Krsna nor Christ, as Prabhupada says.

Can we love our parents even though they may slap our hands when we try to touch the fire?

Yes, Prabhupada is our most gifted poster without doubt.

In this short essay, recorded on his first LP in late 1966, SrIla PrabhupAda illuminates the inner meaning of the Hare KRSNa mantra: The transcendental vibration established by the chanting of Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare is the sublime method for reviving our transcendental consciousness. As living spiritual souls, we are all originally KRSNa conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness is now adulterated by the material atmosphere. The material atmosphere, in which we are now living, is called mAyA, or illusion. MAyA means "that which is not." And what is this illusion? The illusion is that we are all trying to be lords of material nature, while actually we are under the grip of her stringent laws. When a servant artificially tries to imitate the all-powerful master, he is said to be in illusion. We are trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in her complexities. Therefore, although we are engaged in a hard struggle to conquer nature, we are ever more dependent on her. This illusory struggle against material nature can be stopped at once by revival of our eternal KRSNa consciousness. Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare is the transcendental process for reviving this original, pure consciousness. By chanting this transcendental vibration, we can cleanse away all misgivings within our hearts. The basic principle of all such misgivings is the false consciousness that I am the lord of all I survey. KRSNa consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original, natural energy of the living entity. When we hear this transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. This simplest method of meditation is recommended for this age. By practical experience also, one can perceive that by chanting this mahA-mantra, or the Great Chanting for Deliverance, one can at once feel a transcendental ecstasy coming through from the spiritual stratum. In the material concept of life we are busy in the matter of sense gratification, as if we were in the lower, animal stage. A little elevated from this status of sense gratification, one is engaged in mental speculation for the purpose of getting out of the material clutches. A little elevated from this speculative status, when one is intelligent enough, one tries to find out the supreme cause of all causes--within and without. And when one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind, and intelligence, he is then on the transcendental plane. This chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra is enacted from the spiritual platform, and thus this sound vibration surpasses all lower strata of consciousness--namely sensual, mental, and intellectual. There is no need, therefore, to understand the language of the mantra, nor is there any need for mental speculation nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this mahA-mantra. It is automatic, from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in the chanting without any previous qualification. In a more advanced stage, of course, one is not expected to commit offenses on the grounds of spiritual understanding. In the beginning, there may not be the presence of all transcendental ecstasies, which are eight in number. These are: (1) being stopped as though dumb, (2) perspiration, (3) standing up of hairs on the body, (4) dislocation of voice, (5) trembling, (6) fading of the body, (7) crying in ecstasy, and (8) trance. But there is no doubt that chanting for a while takes one immediately to the spiritual platform, and one shows the first symptom of this in the urge to dance along with the chanting of the mantra. We have seen this practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting and dancing. Of course, for one who is too entangled in material life, it takes a little more time to come to the standard point, but even such a materially engrossed man is raised to the spiritual platform very quickly. When the mantra is chanted by a pure devotee of the Lord in love, it has the greatest efficacy on hearers, and as such this chanting should be heard from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effects can be achieved. As far as possible, chanting from the lips of nondevotees should be avoided. Milk touched by the lips of a serpent has poisonous effects. The word HarA is the form of addressing the energy of the Lord, and the words KRSNa and RAma are forms of addressing the Lord Himself. Both KRSNa and RAma mean "the supreme pleasure," and HarA is the supreme pleasure energy of the Lord, changed to Hare in the vocative. The supreme pleasure energy of the Lord helps us to reach the Lord. The material energy, called mAyA, is also one of the multienergies of the Lord. And we, the living entities, are also the energy, marginal energy, of the Lord. The living entities are described as superior to material energy. When the superior energy is in contact with the inferior energy, an incompatible situation arises; but when the superior marginal energy is in contact with the superior energy, HarA, it is established in its happy, normal condition. These three words, namely Hare, KRSNa, and RAma, are the transcendental seeds of the mahA-mantra. The chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His energy, to give protection to the conditioned soul. This chanting is exactly like the genuine cry of a child for its mother's presence. Mother HarA helps the devotee achieve the Lord Father's grace, and the Lord reveals Himself to the devotee who chants this mantra sincerely. No other means of spiritual realization is as effective in this age of quarrel and hypocrisy as the chanting of the mahA-mantra: Hare KRSNa, Hare KRSNa, KRSNa KRSNa, Hare Hare/ Hare RAma, Hare RAma, RAma RAma, Hare Hare.