Ravindran Kesavan

Dear Justin, More over -as a second thought - Science cannot be against monism as science itself is striving to be monistic. Physicsts now are in search of a unified field - one single stuff which accounts for everything in existence.Grand Unification it is called in physics. (And Stephen Hawking's pet term for it is Theory of Everything (TOE). It has not been achieved yet but science is dreaming about it , Physists are working seriously on it ever since Albert Einstein who innograted this work. And there is nothing in principle that this cannot be achieved. In fact this is an ideal to be achieved in science and there is all the reason to assume that sooner or latter it is likely to be achieved , going by the reductionistic histroy of science ) . Science is monistic by its very essential nature. The difference between spiritusl monism and scientific monism however is regarding the nature of this single basic stuff of the universe. Science holds that this single stuff to be material - matter, energy or string ( the latest verson). Whereas the spiritual monism holds it to be the spirit - Cit, Atman ,consciousness. Science is materialistic monism and Advaida is spiritual monism . Science does not reject monism . In fact it approves of it and strives to reach that perfection. What it rejects is the category called 'spirit' and by that rejection all gods go as false categories, and all religion becomes delution system ( false belief). Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Justin, I am surprised to see your scientific turn after all that science bashing you did in the forum 'Does free will exist?' It is not only that the experience of oneness is cosidered as hallucination or delution( false notion) by scientific psychology, but the entire religious ideas no matter whatever shades and doctrine it takes up is diagnosed as neurosis and psychosis (madness). You and I ( I mean Dualist and Monist) both are in the same condition as for as science is concerened. No !You cannot use science to make other spiritual insight as madness and save your own as real and healthy. Either you accept science and be consistant and reject religion in totality with all its varieties, or you reject science in which case you cannot use it to judge religious insights and ideas , as science deals with merely the 'material realm' - your previous stance. I think your previous anti-science stance is better- atleast you are consistant with that position. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Unanth, I am not giving an astrological advise, but a medical one. It seems to me by the symptoms , that this person is suffereing from a form of Schizophrenia - a kind of mental disorder. Lack of interest in the job, world, life, withdrawal from worldly activities lack of personal care, and refusal to eat all points to this diagnosis. Do check with his parents whether they consulted any psychotherapist/psychiatrist. If they have not yet done it it is worth while to do that. Schizophrenia is a difficult disorder to cure permanantly and there is a high chances of relapse periodically. However the person can be recovered, with the healp of medicines , from complete vegitative state of existence , though he can never be effective and indipendant as before. I am not sure but only hypothesing , from the description . But it is worthwile to rule out this possibility. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Not-HeeHee, I dont know I am adderessing you rightly. That is a strange name. I dropped 'I am' part . If I am in any way offending you by this please do let me know next time. The Dualist perspective is all right as a doctrine but to attribute inteligence and wisedom to seeing difference and attributing lack of inteligence or wisdom to seeing oneness behind the myriads of things is untenable. To see plurality is natural and that is how all creatures see the world anyway with their gross senses . All creatures see myriads of things- a divided and fractured and pluralistic world. There is no integence or wisdom required to see myriads of the things. Only sense perception is required for this. No inference or thinking is involved in this. Where as seeing the underlying oneness behind myriads of things requires inference, thinking and intelligence or an intuitive wisdom ,as it is not directly given in perception. This has to be either infered by reason or experirenced by a intuitive mode of knowing. Regards, K.Ravindran

There are different alternate forms of kama gayatri . One form is : Om Makaradhuajaaya Vidhmahe, Pushpabaanaaya dheemahi thano ananga prachodayaat. Usually gayatri mantras do not start with or contain particulkar beejas of devatas. All gayatries start with om. The only purpose of kamagayatri is to gain infactuation power, generally, or to win the love of someone, specifically. Vedic Surya Gayatry, which grands liberation, is supposed to be prohibited for women as women are considered to be unqualified for liberation. (But I personally dont believe this . Every soul is entitled for Moksha. ) This traditional ban is not applicable in the case of other gayatries of devatas -which give material benifits - like kamagayatri. A women can techenically chant this since it does not invole moksha. Regards, K.Ravindran

That Krishna is a realized person just like many rishis , seems to be the correct understanding as there are many seems to have the same perspective and experience of Krishna. One such personality speaking like Krishna is the woman Vak, daughter of the sage Ambhrana , She knew like Krishna that she was Brahman.Rg veda as wellas Atarva veda gives her mantras in Rastrasukta. What follows is this sukta taken from Adharva Veda Kanda 4 Sukta 30: I go about Rudras, the Vasus, I with Adityas, and All-gods; I bear Mitra and Varuna, I Indra and Agni, I both Asvinis. <?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p> I am queen gatherer of goodthings, the first that has understood the matters of sacrifice; me here the gods distributed manifoldly, making me of many stations enter into many. <o:p></o:p> I my own self say this, (which is) enjoyable of gods and of men; whoever I desire, him I make formidable, him priest him seer him wise. <o:p></o:p> By me does he eat food who look abroad, who breath, who indeed hears what is spoken; Unknowing they dwell upon me; hear you , heard-of one; I say to you what is to be credited. <o:p></o:p> I stretch the bow for Rudra, for his shaft to slay the bhraman hater; I make strife for the people; in to haven-and-earth I have entered. <o:p></o:p> I bear the heady soma, I Tvasta, also Bhaga; I assign prosperity to the giver of oblations, to the very Zealous, the sacrificer, the presser of soma. <o:p></o:p> I give birth to the father in his head; my womb is within waters, the ocean; thence I extend myself to all beings; even sky I touch with my summit. <o:p></o:p> I myself blow forth like the wind, taking hold upon all being; beyond sky, beyond the earth here – such have I become by greatness. <o:p></o:p> The translation by W. D. Whitney , I believe is of poor quality but we do get a sense of the grand experience this women seer is talking about.Krishna is to be taken as a brahmajani - a self/brahman realised soul - like Vak. Every soul can and must reasise Brahman. K.Ravindran

Dear Sukra blossom, Kleem is technically called Kamaraja ( desiore king) or kama beeja( desire seed). It is the mantra of Manmata, ( love god) as well as krishna, and Kali (in a specific form) too. This mantra is supposed to satisfy all the desires, generally, and kindle love of every one for the practitioner, specifically. Vamakeswari tantra has a section on this mantra and its application. This being the mantra of Kameswari( goddess of love or desire) It is supposed to agitate ( kshoba) the minds of people in a powerful way making them to desire you and approach you. People in masses will be biwitched by its power and seek the practitioner of this mantra. For this you need to think of this mantra as a goddess with sugarcane bow and flower arrow, an elephant goad and a noose, red in colour like the rising sun more red like a vermilion or pomenagrade flower. It is considered to be a mantra of love per excellence and hence a good mantra. As to its potential to harm, anything can be harmful relatively. If you become powerful over your folks and control their will that can be considered harming from the other's perspective. If you win a person's love by this mantra, which it is fully capable of achieving, you can be considered as harming that person - you deprive the other person's freedom. And if you are using this mantra for gaining your desires, as it will fulfill all your desires, even the low ones, you are supposed to be harming yourself as you get imnmersed in materiality that makes your moksha ( spiritual liberation) difficult. In any case its hole harming capicity is confined to Love and Control. It will not do anything else. If you use it rightly -if you donot seek anything materialistic, but win the favour of the Goddess - it can liberate you as it is a mantra of the Goddess Kameswari - a very high and estreemed deity. She is Siva's karuna( mercy) sakti. Regards, K.Ravindran

Hello everyone, Why God is a human male? Every society conceived their thoughts and systems -religious or secular - in terms of cultural symbolism. The male dominant society conceived everything superior and valuable - including god - as males and attributes belonging to males. This kind of 'religiosity' which is verymuch culturally conditioned is to be distinguished from 'spirituality' which is culture-free and universal . The Vedic Brahman and Mukti are such universal concepts according to my understanding. Mukti is to be conceived as freedom from all sort of limitation imposed by not only from the culture but also the biological. The limitation comes from the ego- the self boundry. the ideas : I am a male, an Indian, a human , a Vaishnavite (or communist , or a capatalist), all are limiting myself and are arbitory notions. The true 'I' am in fact free from all such orbitrarily defined ego boundries. This is the true meaning of the Vedic Notion of 'I am Brahman'. We - all sentient beings - are all one. And seeing this oneness is a spiritual wisdom. Seeing difference is spiritual ignorance. Whence shall he have grief, how shall he be deluded who sees everywhere the Oneness?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Isha Upanishad Moksha is to attain this oneness consciousness. One way to settle this debate on moksha conclusively is to attain moksha , practically. There is indeed an experience of oneness of all and freedom from all conditioned and limiting conception, which can be expreienced if we care to find out. This is done by transforming our consciousness (from the ego bounded state to unbounded Paramatma - a state of unity consciousness). The techniques of transformation of consciousness from individual consciousness to unity consciousness are well developed in Indian spiritual traditions. To accomplish the required transformation of consciousness, Indians have devised practical tools. ‘Vidyas’, they are called in Upanisads. They are also referred to as ‘Tantra’ (technique) in Tantric traditions and ‘Upaya’ (means) in Kashmir Saivism. It is not the scope of this post to cover the techniques in detail, but a classifications system of the techniques merits mention. We shall adopt the classification system of Kashmir Saivism for this purpose, because this classification system seems to be a universal all exhaustive system, covering every possible spiritual technique. For the transformation of consciousness Kashmir Saivism prescribes three types of techniques. The first type is the easiest to most of the individuated ego–intact people. The technique it self is an ‘ego–intact’ technique. The technique does not demand one to be ego-less or ego-free. It prescribes actions that are performed by ego with ego-intact. Various practices of Bakthi, (Devotion), worship of gods, recitation of mantras, performance of rituals, acts of charity and various other meritorious acts all fall under this category. Since, ego is intact in these techniques they are classified under the name ego-intact techniques - ‘Anavopaya’. The Aim of these techniques is however to reconstruct the ego boundary itself. The next type of technique-called Saktopaya - is to leave the objects of ego- be it a mantra, a deity or any other object of the self, and to investigate the ego itself. Attention is to be turned on to the self. When one remains constant in this self-inquiry, one is bound to discover that the ego boundary is arbitrary and illusory and one is in fact the Transpersonal Consciousness. Ego drops away naturally. The third type of technique - called Sambavopaya - is the simple swapping of the self-identity. One normally identifies oneself with the empirical self. But why identify with empirical self, when one is actually transpersonal self? Hence swap your identification from empirical self to transpersonal self, as you are already transpersonal self. This simple swapping of our ontological assumption from that 'I am an empirical self', to that 'I am the Universal self' is called Sambavopaya. It is a very simple technique but by its very simplicity, very difficult to accomplish by many. Usually only very few spiritually advanced souls are said to be benefiting by this technique. They comprehend the truth as soon as they hear it - "You are Brahman" - from a teacher’s mouth and their identity gets swapped and they get enlightened instantly. K.Ravindran

Dear Avinash, Since the wave particle duality is a falsae duality, since there is a strong possibility that reality is something totally different from our present notion of wave or particle, it is unimportant to understanrd the particle first before we move on to string theory, presisly because string theory transcend the wave particle duality. This is a new way of looking at the issue. Perhaps the key to understand the basic entities of universe is in string theory rather than breaking our heads with the old problematic notions like particles. We need a paradigm shift. Thereby I am not saying that String theory is that paradigm- is the right theory - and it has solved all the problems. We are not sure at this point of time. Yet this could be a posibility. We need to wait and see. But it is wort trying. K.Ravindran

Dear Srikant, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p> </o:p> Before we discuss the issue we first need to define mukti. There are different meaning and flavers to this concept. Depending on the conceptualization and operationalization of mukti. <o:p> </o:p> What is the essential conception ofMukti? What is the word meaning of Mukti? Mukti means freedom. Freedom from what? On this there are different conceptions: (1) Freedom from birth death cycle – the samsara sagara- which also means freedom from karmic chain. If we take this definition then we have the following question associated with it: What happens to the self (soul) after it is freed from karma - After its physical body dies? There are four traditional possibilities: <o:p> </o:p> Saloka Mukti : Living in the world of a god. Samipa Mukti: Attaining close proximity to god Sarupa Mukti: Obtaining the gods form Sayujya mukti: Merging with the god . <o:p> </o:p> These four muktis are pertaining to of results obtained from, worship of a god. <o:p> </o:p> There is another way to look at the issue. In Kashmir Saivism , jeevas are supposed to be suffering with three impurities( malas) : Anava mala (ego – limited agency, a sense of limited individual existence) Karma mala (being bound deterministically by the chain of action reaction pattern) Mayiya mala( subject to ignorance and illusion). <o:p> </o:p> Siva is supposed to be free of all three of these mala and the esoteric doctrine is that Jiva is Siva with these three malas . In the process of freeying from these three malas there are stages of freedom ( mukti) ; <o:p> </o:p> (1) Those creatures with all three malas intact are called Sakalas . They are the various creatures ranging from range from crimi ( protozoa) to various gods. ( here gods should be understood as various evolved creatures with superhuman capabilities but yet not free from the fundamental three faults) . (2) Those who are free from Karma mala but with maya and anava intact are called Pralayakalas. They are free from karmic chain but yet do not posses knowledge, due to presence of ignorance. (3) Those who ate free from karma as well as mayiya mala are called Vijnanakalas. They will have knowledge but still not free from the ego, limited agency. (4) Those who are freed from Anava (and karma and Mayiya malas too) are called Mantras. Mantras are fully muktas as they are completely free from all three types of malas which are limiting. <o:p> </o:p> Further the mantras are also classified in to a hierarchical structure of a tree tire system of which mantras are at the lowest level. The two other kind of mantras are : (5) Mantreswaras (6) Mantramaheswara, and finally (7) Siva. <o:p> </o:p> In these the mantra level on words are called truly muktas. The distinction still exists between them in terms of the sakties – powers - that they master. Mantra is endowered with Kriya sakti, Mantra maheswara with Jnana sakti and Mantra maheswara with Icha sakti. These are the ones who are running the univers, creating maintaining and desolving. Siva is transcendental. Merging with siva is equilant to merging with the Vedic Bhraman. The only differenceis that the Kasmir salivate concept of the ultimate state Siva is not the actionless passive stale state as it is normally attributed to (Sankarian) Bhraman, but a dynamic force that generating everything in the universe . Siva and Sakti are one. Sakti is Siva’s indistinguishable power. <o:p> </o:p> Thus in this <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Kashmir</st1:place> salivate schema, Mukti could mean six varying degrees and types of freedom from Pralayakala to Siva. <o:p> </o:p> I have not answered your questions in this post. I don’t know the answer at this point of time. What I did is is to provide a full context of the meaning of Mukti its varying possible shades of meaning with scope of both dualist and monist conceptions of mukti so that discussion could take place with out vagueness and confusion. <o:p> </o:p> Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Avinash, Your blind men anology is perfect as to modern physics. We still have many unresolved puzzles. On this state of affairs I shall only quote Albert Einstein: Physics is in a very lousy state . But then that is all we have. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Avinash, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> The original quantum states -before we measure - are not associated with probabilities. They are associated with probability amplitudes. Probability amplitudes are not probabilities at all. The qualifier ‘probability’ to the total word 'probability amplitude' should not confuse us. Probability amplitude is can aspect of wave function and is associated with the amplitude of the wave. Hence probability amplitude can be and has been also called simply as amplitude. Hence to avoid the confusion we will also use that word. <o:p></o:p> Amplitude is a complex quantity (expressed by a complex number of the form x + iy) where as probability is a real number. Schrödinger’s equation is a deterministic equation involving this complex quantity of amplitude. Once the initial value is known this equation precisely determines the particle's – or rather the wave's – evolution deterministically for all the time to come. There is no indeterminism or probability at this level. <o:p></o:p> But the moment we attempt to measure the state at any given time, the wave function collapses and no more the amplitudes -which are quantities associated with wave -are available. With the collapse of the wave function the complex quantity amplitude collapses to the real quantities probabilities. This is where the probability enters in to the seen. When the complex numbers are converted to real numbers probabilities appear. In its original state (described with amplitudes) the quantum state is very deterministic and can be predicted with complete accuracy. Of course notions like position doesn’t make any sense with wave dynamism. Position is a property of particle not of wave. But that does not mean the situation is vague or probabilistic or random. Instead of the particle-property like position if we take the wave-property like amplitude, there is no uncertainty at all and quantum states evolve in strict deterministic laws. <o:p></o:p> The problem is with our measuring – with our knowing. Not with the actual state of affairs as it is. The problem is epistemological not ontological. <o:p></o:p> Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear HST, I am sorry that I dint reply immediately. I was bussy for some time and did not visit this forum for a while. There are many tantras awailable now but unfortunitely many are in Sanscrit. The following are in english Maha Nirvana tantra By arthur Avlon ( Sir John Woodroffe) Kularnava tantra By Ram kumar Roy Vamakeswarimadam by Machiel Magee. Maha nirvana tantra is a fine choice to bugine with. It is declared to be the best and Highest. If you can manage to arange a translater I would recommentr Tantra raja tantra. Besides the highest accomplishmeent Liberation of souls It also deals with siddhis like 32 yakshani, Gadga , paduka, ajana, vedala, pichasa chadaka, vijaya, and kamarupa siddhis. It also has a chapter on the african Voodo style dol sorcery, and many more it is really a comprihensive tantra but the hitch is it is in sancrit. Arther Avlon has left it untranslated . But it is published. There are many buddhist tantra too avail able in english. Hevajra tantra is an example (and there are many more). You can get the details of most of the bublished work in internet search. I am including a link for you . There are many other sites as well. http://www.tantraworks.com/Tantra_Ref.html Regards, K.Ravindran

All glories to Prabhupada who told only FACTS with proper scientific evidence to back up. No further debate required. - Justin Dear Justin, Are you closing down that the last spiritual guru has arrived and no more spiritual beings can emerge, like Muslims who closed down with Prophet Mohemed as the last prophet? I personally believe there is lots of scope - in fact endless scope - for new new ways of comprehending spiritual truth. I believe in Ramakrishna paramahamsa's description of Religious Prophets and leaders: "No one has seen Kali ( meaning the ultimate truth. It could well be substituted by the word Krishna if you likle), completely. Each seer has seen a small aspect of Her like the five blind men who experienced the Eliphant and concluded they know the total truth. No one has exhausted the spirituasl truth, as spiritual truth is not finate and fixed. There is enough and perpectual scope to conceive in new and ever new ways. Of course you can brush this aside as my personal opinion and you are free to hold on to your belief that truth has been exausted and there is no more scope to say anything on it. It is your choice and I will not debate on it. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Bart, See attachment for the proof that part containing the whole.[ATTACH]1791[/ATTACH] It contains figures and that is not comming in this reply hence the attachment form. Regards, K.Ravindran Dear Bart.doc

Dear Bart, I will get back to you on this proof - that part represents the whole - on monday. Regards, K.Ravindran

Sorry to say, none of the people who taught non-dualism has ever experienced moksha or mukti, because by their own philosophy they get trapped. According to them in moksha or mukti there is only God. There is no person.

Dear Pajkaja Dasa, Well if you are a monist , if you hold there is no difference between Goloka and Boologa, then no there is no offence here. If you are a dualist, If you maintain the difference between the realms and of the souls - ours and krishnas, then yes there could be a thing called offence which does not exist in Goloka. There are many such things exists here which are not there and vice versa, If they are different worlds. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Passionatefreak, Then it is ideal . Nothing like it. The best one could bet on. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Ravikishore, Yes Chandi is navarna mantra - that you have posted before with nine letters . This mantra is the core mantra of durga saptasati . Chant one lack time minimum . Full sadana is 9 lack times. I have explained this before in your previoous post elsewhere. Technically Chandi is different from Durga mantra. Chandi is of Nine letters that you have posted before. Durga is 7 lettered Bhairo has posted this mantra in one of his posts.(post 30 of question and answer forum) Both goddess are durga only but the form and mantra differs. Immediately after the mantra japa of navarna mantra you are supposed to read Durga saptasati, as a completion process. But dont get too technical Just start the worship in a simple way. And as you proceed you may add elements to it. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Afun, In a strict narrow sense of 'spiritual' yes. However in a broader sense everything is spiritual. The third state of the soul the one in deep sleep is called Iswara (god) in manduka Upanasid. If God is spiritual then the sleeping state too is spiritual. Is in't it? . We can extend the notion of Spirituality to other states too. But You are right In the sepcial sense -or Unique sense of of - 'Spiritual' would only refer to that mysterious fourth state - which is beyond sense experience and thought and language - only to be known in a mystical experience. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear Bart, That monistic Chaos system model of yours is a brilliant conception. It appeares to have potential to resolve all paradoxes and complications in religious thinking. It is a worth wile attempt to systematically and regorously develop this model. I think you have hit at something very important and grand. However one must wait and see what form it takes up and what new problems it throws up. Do develop it regorously. And let me know its development. I am interested in it. Regards, K.Ravindran

Dear justine, I agree that there are problems in analogical reasoning Afterall an anology is an anology and not the actual thing. Having said that, let me respond to you that the argument you maintain for the different part of gods body - that they are all equal, - Gods brain is equal to gods toe - is the same with the body of an organism and the cells too. From each cell you can generate the entire body. Every cell contain all the information of the whole body. After all all cells are generated from a single genetic code, and this single gemnnitic code is present in all cells. Though cells specilise in certain way , they are all mirror copies of a single cell. Cloning of the whole body can be done from any cell of the body. ( it has been experimentally accomplished too in the case of plants. From cells taken from any part of the plant, say flower pettel, the entire plant can be grown. Hence there is not much difference betwen gods body and biological organisms. "Purnamadam purnamidam" (Part and whole both are perfect and mirror immages of one another). applies god and living organism equally. Regards, K.Ravindran