yasodanandana

1)the departure of the acharya 2)the fact that all that joining at the temple was good because authorized and favoured by prabhupada, but it was an emergency, a special help to give to the pure devotee. Now the right thing is to put the focus on varnashrama, then gradually, when we will have devotees in any social class, well situated in their "karma-bhakti yoga" we will see surely the temple filled with real brahmacharyas attending to a real gurukula... someone remaining as monk for the lifetime, and happy and sober grihastas visiting and happy to help with work and donations i remember the disappearance movie:.. srila prabhupada in the translation/comment of the srimad bhagavatam, in his "death"bed, only few days before disappearing, could have spoken on any higly esoteric subject, but, no.. he stressed on varnashrama... "varnashrama is essential...." in my ignorance i consider varnashrama, collaboration between devotees and the peace and union with the other gaudya maths his final instructions i am not at all advanced, maybe i am not at all competent to have an opinion on srila prabhupada... so, please, forgive my offences to you and to our jagad guru

1)taking away garlands and clothes by the deities you will not make the money you need to solve the problem 2)especially in india temples and religious organizations are the only one who are helping people giving them food and shelter 3)there's another life after this.. if we do not learn to honour god the pain will continue so thanks for your advice, let us do both things.. let's us show kindness to god and to the brothers, why only the father? why only the brothers? both is the perfection

"I can't find any sastric evidence in the Folio, about not wearing nor can I find anything saying we can, so for now I should assume its not a good idea, sorry I am not convinced that it should be done at all. " so you can use your intelligence prabhu, in the folio you will not find also the words "mp3" or "internet" or "condenser microphone" or "osama bin laden"!! use analogies , it is scientific and a thing that also a little pupil like me and you can do.. and if you/we make a mistake, it is a little detail, no problems

more i hear new problems from new kinds of people starting to chant hare krishna more i am happy.. all these new great saint vaishnavas will save me from hell

gaudya vaishnava sampradaya is basically a school, not a faith.. To belong to a "classic" religion like hinduism, islamism, catholicism etc you have only to "believe" that in the sky there's vishnu, allah, jesus and you are a member but gaudya vaishnava is a school, not a blind faith, so you have to pray krsna to send to you a master, otherwise there's no any meaning in belonging or joining (like the ones who put on t-shirts with "yale university", "oxford university" in italy many do it, maybe i have something like that) so if you "feel" that you are an iskcon member everyone is happy because it is a signo of appreciation for srila prabhupada and all the vaishnavas.. but you have to go deeper

the "classic" place for tulasi is around the neck.... but we are so fortnate that so many people come to this movement from any social class, any profession, any estetic taste that we have to use some intelligence to answer to new little or big problems without compromising the principle and without bothering unnecessarily them with details so everything is so nice!! (for my poor english... what's the difference between lucky and forunate?...) haribol

My question revolves around HOW can this information be so accurate •••you're a devotee, you claps once the hands in the kirtana and all the work of the astrology is vanified.. your destiny has changed is the information ever requested or looked into by your spiritual master? •••the answer of dervish is very good, there's also to ask to gurudeva what he thinks about a disciple going to an astrologer (not necessarily bad thing of course)

if it is not possible do not put tulasi, krsna recognizes his loving devotee even if he has no "religious" signs on him, The devotional service of your husband is to work in us air force and offer the results of this activity to krishna.. so everything is less important than doing it without unnecessary troubles.. .....or maybe you can try with a little string with one or few "big" japa tulasi grains, i think (from movies!!!!!) that militars have a necklace with some identification plates or similar.. is it possible to put in it a japa tulasi grain ? or a tulasi bracelet...? but do not make of it a big problem you make me remember that my spiritual master have said that one has to put on tilaka, water tilaka if clay is not possible... and i am not obeying.. but i think that this is very important

yes it is very bad... but we have to be very careful on what is vaishnava aparadha or what is a right and costructive observation on a situation that is objectively problematic... in my way of thinking i have developed from a stage where i believed that to say anything to one who was wearing a dothi under the iskcon banner was absolutely hellish, and to say a lot of bad things on the rest of the world was almost heavenly now i hope to be a little better than the above "yaso bin laden"... now i am firmly convinced only of one thing: that to speak on the "group", "math", "organization" plane is surely a source of immense troubles. if i say "that group of vaishnavas, that math, are such and such" and i am right for 402937436 members but not for the only 1 devotee i go to hell... because it is not possible that in a group of people chanting hare krishna there's not a true devotee of the lord.. another thing is that i have not so much problem with people who breaks rules, regulations, principles, external etiquette and so on... but i get very sad when the krsna consciousness is explained to the outside people explaining the four principles in a way that leaves the impression that they are the core of the krishna consciousness without any attempt to transmit the beauty and bliss of chanting hare krishna and the association with devotees and if i see this my hellish nature starts to push to get out /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

very interesting.. many thanks

for me the reason, the source of all problems, the only sin that god is unable to forgive

...vaishnava aparadha

It seems from pics we see of Nitai Gaura Hari Deities that were worshipped in his physical presence that he allowed the devotees to worship Them in the mood of SS Krsna Balaram. Please correct me if I am wrong. One thought is that although scriptures may have various things to say, our acarya ...Srila Prabhupada adjusted things for us in Kali yuga. What to do? Thanxs. ••there's not an adjustement of srila prabhupada, in all gaudya tradition gaura nitai are dressed like god, no as sannyasi/avadhuta, but whitout some specifical attributes of god.. like the peacock feather.. there's not so much creativity on this subject.. better to ask to experts and not doing it by taste or feeling Eh? Our acarya? and change? contradiction ahoy! ••an important aspect of acharya is that he makes many changes.. otherwise there would be no need of him... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

it is not incorrect.. maybe the focus has to put more on mahamantra. In this world is not possible to stop committing sins, but it is possible to free us from material bondage and go back to godhead chanting hare krishna (that is what we call spiritual advancement). So regulative principle, avoiding temptation, becaming pious has a meaning because being more "clean" we chant more hare krishna with less offences. If our goal is to stop sins every our effort, austerity, wrata is useless, maya is krishna, she's more powerful than us, if our goal is to chant mahamantra we surely will stop committing sins.. krsna is more powerful than maya.. a complete sinner, breaking 2,3,4,400 regulative principles but chanting hare krishna, will go back to godhead soon or later..... one who avoid sins without chanting will remain eternally in this material world

no grains, no legumes.. this is the prabhupada's specifical instruction. In some cases, gaudya vaishnavas, in india, avoid other kinds of food, green leafs and so on.. but if you do not have specific instructions by your guru maharaja, better (imho) to stick on the generic one by srila prabhupada. My spiritual master follow in the math the more strict system by bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati, but he says to us westerners to follow the simpler prabhupada's option (the spirit of ekadasi is to devote less time to the needs of the body and to chant more and read more... )

to eat you have to kill plants or animals in both cases you take the karma, the sin, of the killing if you offer the plants you kill, to krishna, before eating them, you do not take any sin, you make spiritual advancement so, ideally, offering to krsna means that we cook for the enjoyement of krishna, not for our senses... when we begin is only a duty, a ritual that we make ordered by the spiritual master and we do not cook really for krsna, we cook for us.. so there's a percentage of sin advancing in the practices of krsna consciousness we became completely absorbed in gratificating krsna, we do everything for krsna, we cook exclusively for his pleasure, and consequently we are completely released from any sin the food offered to krsna is a sacrifice, from the latin meaning of this word, a MADE(=facere) SACRED food by the contact of the lotus mouth of sri krsna bhagavan

surrender means to do basically what arjuna did after listened the bhagavad gita to surrender is: to accept a pure present vaishnava spiritual master to chant hare krishna at least in the number of rounds assigned by the guru to turn our karma in karma (bhakti) yoga.. the activities remain the same, but we act for the gratification of krishna and not for our gratification as we did before in this way our work and life gradually will be devotional service and we'll see krishna

No one is allowed to post the many quotes Prabhupada gave against his godbroethers even in cases when that SPECIFIC QUESTION has been asked. •••the criticism for prabhupada's godbrothers is a sport practiced by many people.. i do not think that in our days there's lack of it in books, internet, classes etc. So you, me and other's are allowed to criticize anyone.. even sri krishna... but the opinion of who says that these quotes by prabhupada are said for specific times and circumstance is not stupid or sectarian because it is based on what prabhupada has said at the moment of his disappearance. And it is taken from some iskcon books, lilamrita.. conversations... So, to say "be careful when you enter this subject.. prabhupada has already given the last word..." is not so strange, one cannot agree (at his own risk), but it is not strange, sectarian, fanatic etc. if you were in the day when prabhupada proposed 64 daily rounds to young american devotees, you can support the thesis with plenty of citations, prabhupada can say the entire vedas in one single day.. but what's the use if the next day his divine grace says: "16 rounds is ok?" A devotee is never allowed to have THAT opinion because it threatens those who have his godbrothers as their guru •••it is a good thing to consider, you cannot believe that an entire group of devotees are wrong or prabhupada/iskcon offenders especially in this not so easy matter, because thinking at the devotees as sects, groups, churchs is in itself against the vaishnava personalist concept of the reality. Vaishnavas are noct sectarian, they do not think that all the people who make one particular thing is doing it with the same consciousness . So we have respectable vaishnavas and fanatic neophytes in all camps, and respecting all of them we do not use the "critical" quotes of acharyas in a non proper way... or if we use these quotes there's the possibility that one answers that our quoting is out of place or that these quotes have been "updated" from the acharya and it is almost useless to put them out in this discussion. So what's the problem? Say and think what you want but accept the free opinion of other's telling sincerely to you to be careful when you speak of vaishnavas.. even if you are using the words of your spiritual master, his vision, position, plans and motivations are different from yours... prabhupada says : ".........rascals!!" if i say ".........rascals!!" it has a completely different value even if i am speaking of the same people, i am not prabhupada

wow!! many thanks!!

when you have started this thread it was the vyasa puja day of Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja... so, being a devotee, you acted as a messenger of krsna to make me do some service in attempting to speak of guru tattva, gurudeva and prabhupada. So infinite thanks to you and all the assembled vaishnavas

please (me the first) let us not put too much passion on this debate... vaishnava aparadha (for acharyas of the past and present times, gurus, practitioneers, neophites etc.) is extremely dangerous.. i beg for the forgiveness of all vaishnavas if i have offended anyone... i did it without real intention... let us go for association not for division

you have perfectly understood... from an ethimologic, specialistic, academical, tecnical point of view you are perfectly right... but for advancing in spiritual consciousness guru, shastra, sadhu are equally necessary and they work conjointly if vedas are absolute and my guru is a rascal the result of my reading of vedas is almost zero even if them are apaurusheya

(Don't kill the messenger.) •••the most important thing is that we do not kill ourselves thinking uselessly offensively of other vaishnavas... not considering that: the relationships between prabhupada and his godbrothers are transcendental, not making distinctions between god brothers as prabhupada did, and not considering that prabhupada has explained (also in the last pages of lilamrita) why he was saying like that, that the war is over, and from that moment the word was "collaboration" prabhupada said at first that we have to chant 64 rounds, then 32, then 16... we accept the last instruction of an acharya.. we do not o to see the previous decisions to use them for our advantage so .. the last instruction is collaboration, one family... we accept the last word, the testament of the acharya... i have choose my gurudeva following the instruction of srila prabhupada to find an uttama adhikari (not excluding any organization) this is important... other things are details... prabhupada is not there, we have to find shelter in others.. this math or that math, then, taken refugee as instructed by prabhupada and bhagavad gita, we will see on personal basis if we can serve together (it is the same also within organizations and also within godbrothers) so these citations are true, are to be considered very carefully, and they have a value in the context, time, place and circumstance... the absolute value of them is that our own guru has the preminence, we have to learn and listen from all other acharyas but not wit the purpose to not to following seriously anyone... prabhupada said: "it was for preaching... ", yes.. for cutting the doubts of immature followers and to teach the principle of guru tattva to future generations... guru is the reference to judge others, not that everyone we hear has to be a pretext to put doubts on the guru

Forgive me, I have a little hard time understanding what you said, but understood some of it, i will have to re-read and maybe do 64 rounds to get a little purifyed:)- ••••no it is for my ugly english and my materialism... there's no need of purification to read my nonsenses... please forgive me.. Ps. Do you know of any disiples of Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja in the uk? •••i know that there are some, i know also personally at least one who is from italy, but i do not know where they live

ramayana is scripture... we are more practical than our friend.... krsna is the source of all scriptures.... the ones who are emanated and the ones who are "created" directly by him or by his representatives like prabhupada, valmiki, bhaktisiddhanta, our guru maharaja etc, so what comes by krsna is scripture and "apaurusheya" because it has no material creation . . so, on one side there's the discussion rules of the vedic/hindu historical and scholars... and we have surely to know it for preaching purpose... on the other side there's the practical and urgent need to go back to godhead.. and for this purpose the words of god given by god or by god through the acharya are the same do you agree prabhu?