yasodanandana

you have not to do it artificially... chant with concentration the hare krishna mahamantra with japa mala in a fixer number of rounds every day, and chant the same mahamantra everytime you have not to use your mouth to relationate with people in this way krsna will do all the work to purify the mind and to make you gradually absorbed in his consciousness without interruption

start to see religion as a science, a school and make questions on your spiritual needs the main problem is that we feel ourselves eternal and blissful but we have to live a short life with the death at the end and with so much pain in the middle so ask to religious practitioneers and masters logic answers on this subject, and you will discover false paths and true paths... and among the true paths, your path so if you want to talk about spiritual subjects we all are here to give and receive advices and suggestions

labels and brands are zero, the supreme, the absolute or the supreme divine personality is surely ONE and he has infinite names.. allah (the greatest), krsna (the all attractive), buddha (the spiritually enlightened) and so on.. if you are following a good path, if you have good teachers, if you are a good spiritualist it will be demonstrated if and when you, staying peacefully in this forum, will show to be able to help people in their research of spiritual consciousness and liberation from the pains of the material world the quarrels between religions adepts are there when it is given too much preminence to the faith, feeling, sentiment from our masters, especially srila bhaktivedanta swami prabhupada, we have learned that religion is a science, there's logic, there's demonstrations, there's a school, there's a method and there's gradual achievements and final goals.... and that belief is not too much important so if you are a good spiritualist, if it is worth to follow you, your idea, your religion, your school, your teacher we will see it if you give good, effective and logic answers religious wars are useless and boring (when no one dies or gets hurt) so please stay here with us and give answers on all the subjects you like with the purpose to help people, this will be the best way to show to others that you path is a good path (this of course is my opinion)

in my experience there's also some smarta brahmins who make that kind of discrimination in allowing people entering their temples. it is not a thing that happens very often, but sometimes there's and it is often in very important places of worship of any hindu path i for example feel sad to be not allowed in jagannatha puri temple, of course i consider it caused by my bad karma.... but indeed it is very sad

i agree totally... to have a life entirely devoted to god is much more important than have a materialist mentality but to go sometimes at temple, mosquee, church only for tradition of course it is better than nothing

There was controversy when Sonia gandhi was allowed inside the temple without signing i live near the city where sonia gandhi is born, i have heard that she was allowed in jagannatha puri temple (i am not allowed.. if i try they comes with sticks) (the power of politic!!) /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

the body of vaishnavas is spiritual because is entirely devoted to the service of sri krsna bhagavan, it is not proper to say that a vaishnava is a soul covered in a gross and subtle body... he's all spirit, all pure spirit even if we wrongly see a body made of ordinary flesh and blood so whatever activities this person is doing (also his "death" is an activity, lila, performed exclusively for teach us krsna consciousness), we worship and glorify him in the same way we worship and glorify god and a considerable part of archana, the act of worshiping god, devatas and saints, is to offer them flowers and flower garlands we went in this world because of envy, we were envious of the fact that krsna is the isvara and we have to be subordinated... the coming back starts from abandoning our pride and start glorifyin and praising others.. especially vaishnavas every "jaya" to gurudeva, prabhupada, vishnupada, vaishnava thakura, prabhu and so on wipes away millions of anarthas in our heart

society is made by four social classes (sudra, vaisha, ksatrya and brahmins) and four spiritual stages (brahmachary, grihasta, vanaprasta, sannyasi).. everyone of us for karma and guna is naturally situated in a particular time in one varna and one ashram. Krsna consciousness, as perfectly explained in bhagavad gita, is essentially to devote the qualities that we already have and the activities that we naturally are able to do to krishna, chanting hare krishna, under the guidance of a pure present uttama adhikari vaishnava spiritual master and following the 4 regulative principles to have our mind more clean and free as possible to chant effectively hare krishna. Even my english is horrible, in my opinion this is krsna consciousness according bhagavad gita as it is translated and commented by srila prabhupada and according all vaishnava acharyas. The gita is the story of the delivering by the spiritual master (=sri krsna) of a man (=arjuna) who had the illusion that to surrender, to find peace and liberation, he had to change his guna and karma, to neglect his duties, to annihilate his personality(of course arjuna act as an illusioned man exclusively for our benefit.. he'a an eternally liberated soul) So consider carefully if it is really good for your spiritual life to go living at the temple.. in all religions only few people can live as monks and nuns, and among these monks and nuns there's an high percentage of frustrated (or sexually frustrated ) people. And to be in a "religious" environment is not a great help because they're acting against bhagavad gita. We have to offer everything to krsna, everything includes our karma, gunas, predisposition, skills, abilities, culture, capacities and so on. if arjuna had choosen to go in himalaya to meditate (in today's words= join the temple) he had gone against krsna's will and the surrendering were zero.. no surrenderin=no krsna consciousness.. but decided to follow his karma, to do his job, he engaged himself in the fight and, because he did it with the autorization of the spiritual master, thinking constantly of sri krsna (man mana mad bhava bhakto...), he turned his job of killing millions of peoples with various weapons in the most terrible ways.... in pure devotional service of the highest level next: for my experience the 99.99999999% does not rexist living in the temple if not a few years... many feeling frustrated by this experience not fit for them, stop to practice and even to believe in krsna and prabhupada in my opinion the fact that we have as average behaviour in our centers people who is a brahmachary or a brahmachariny only for a few years, then he or she comes back frustrated in the society, annihilates in the devotees and in the general people the faith in renunciation and renunciated people.. because we start to believe that renunciation is never really possible and that renunciates are fanatics, frustrated, and destined to fall in a few years.... and this is worse than to have no renunciates and no temples at all but it is possible that you are one of the 0.0000001% of people who can live happily and for the rest of your life as celibate in the temple.. so consider it very carefully, take advices from many expert devotees, pray krsna to send you a pure spiritual master and take advice by him on this subject... maybe try to live for little periods in the temple without cutting with the society (job, studies, family etc.).. and,, if you can, find a house close to the temple to be on your own, but to partecipate to services, programs, feasts and so on. please be careful, for your spiritual life, for devotee's society in general, and for the reputation of srila prabhupada and vaishnavism.. in these kali yuga times the eyes of materialists are constantly pointed on religious people, priests, monks, masters, to find faults to demonstrate that religion does not make better men and women and that god is only mytology my english is bad, the style is horrible.. i hope at least that the meaning is clear let us hope to have advices also from others.. mine are not enough for such important decision

your message is very enlightening and moving... many thanks

What is the purpose of a guru. I have always thought that guru is someone who takes you to krsna. BUt after I talked to a couple of people from the temple. Somewhat "knowledgable" guys who said krsna says in the bhagavat gita surrender unto a bonofide spiritual and render service unto him because he has seen the truth. maybe i do not understand because my italenglish is not so good... but where's the contraddiction? a guru has to be one who sees the truth (krsna) to give it to me and you, so if he "has" really krsna he can give Him to others, and if krsna is given to us and we sincerely take Him in our heart, mind, actions, behaviour.. we are back in the spiritual world very simple... What is the purpose of a guru. -to show us krsna..

it is true.. but the meaning of iskcon is international society of krsna consciousness.. so who's practicing krsna consciousness is in iskcon or in the spirit of iskcon and prabhupada is good, the only good, the exclusive... but prabhupada is not a material leader who when he dies he's gone away, prabhupada is the visible manifestation of sri paramatma and it is not possible that paramatma abandones us after the passing away even of such great and exalted acharya so we must recognise prabhupada's spirit, acharya's spirit, paramatma's spirit even in other vaishnavas present and acting in this world in various organizations god gives us freedom making us blind with maya when we desire to come in this material world, but god grants the same freedom, sending eternally uttama adikari vaishnavas to save us prabhupada's/paramatma's spirit lives eternally in pure vaishnavas acting to save us by maya's bondage

the deity who gives his darshan to us maybe has plans for us very different from our ones, we believe to go to see her to gain material advantages, protection from death, health, money, husbands and wives, but the deity really cares only for our spiritual advancement.. bodies come and go, it is not, from the absolute point of view, a great problem so if we go in pilgrimage we get huge spiritual advantage, but our karma goes on, if our death's moment comes after the darshan we will get the advantage getting huge facilitations for spiritual advancement in the next life or we go to the spiritual world to see face to face and relationating in full bliss, consciousness, eternity the deity we were so eager to see going in pilgrimage death is an external aspect, everyone who goes to see archa murti gets a big spiritual advancement, but this advancement manifestates in each person in a different way hare krsna rohit... i hope to have given some light

Is praying to God at the time of painful suffering wrong? -absolutely not wrong, if we are not advanced and we want to be healthy for sense gratification we are at least acknowledging that all the good that happens to us is from sri krsna. And an advanced devotee can ask a good health with the only purpose to serve krsna.. so anyway no problem Then who is RAM and what is the difference between KRISHNA avatar and RAM avatar. -ram, krsna and all avataras are the same person. It is correct to say that krsna is supreme because he shows intimacy and love with his devotees more than other personalities who show more or less a preminent official aspect as god, isvara, creator, mantainer. We make a comparison with a great king or president that has a public image when he's acting in the society and when he goes home and he deals very intimately with wife, sons, and relatives. Maybe the great king privately is disobeyed by sons, chastized by wife and mother and adviced by the father and he relationate with friends as another friend at the same level. So, generally, we consider more deep, intimate and complete this kind of manifestation of the king's personality than the official ones. For this reason is correct to consider krsna as the supreme personality of godhead, source of all other manifestations and impersonal brahman. Not because we are politeists believing in the existence of many gods, but because we see that krsna's personality is the most complete display of divine qualities.

ah.. you cannot destroy something not of your property

no... karma law will assume that you do not want gross material body and will make you live millions of years as ghost with all the desires and no body to satisfy them absolutely the most painful kind of hell to sacifice (sacer(=holy) facio (=i do)) is to transform something from sinful to holy please start with your mouth and tongue: "hare krishna, hare krishna...." , then it will go to your heart, then, from heart, blood will bring this holiness in all the body in this way you will sacrifice (make sacred.. holy) your body not killing it

I have seen in life people who have surrendered completely, in painful conditions, neither there is life nor death. What else is the "sinful reaction" -realized devotees live in the spiritual realm even if we wrongly see them entangled in meterial body, it is very easy, for example reading vaishnava acharyas biographies, to see that they, in apparent painful conditions, are completely entusiast and able to preach perfectly krsna consciousness.. and , most of all, they are able to keep their mind concentrated on krsna at the "death" moment. In this way we recognise that their pain is only apparent and a lila to teach disciples wich is the behaviour of a spiritualist at the moment of death. The spiritual master also displays apparent difficulty and pain to have a new relationship with the beloved disciples, before he cared for them, now disciples take the master's place, caring for him, giving advices for medicines, diet etc. In this particular verse of the gita the reactions are the ones that one takes if he does not respect his place in the society, family etc. Krsna says that if we surrender completely and we give up our material duties for it he will take the karma reactions. Think of a sannyasi who, for the society, become essentially a beggar, he leaves job, family, sons, wife etc... If he do it without real surrendering he will have to suffer greatly, if it is a real surrendering, only if it is real and complete, krsna will protect from karma reactions of his escaping from social duties Can you imagine the pain of a person lying in death bed, unfortunately a devotee too, suffering from dreaded disease, and also of not much age. He has no option. -i can imagine, because i had some health problems recently... and i know that i am very far to be a pure devotee because i have experimented that in great pain i forget of krsna very easily. But real devotees, the ones who have followed completely the krsna's instruction "sarva dharma..." are easily recognizable in these painful moments.... and ultimately they do not suffer at all, they're completely in transcendence . But today's dreaded incurable diseases are not cured even with prayers and even true devotees die from them. Is it so that in those diseases neither PRAYER not MEDICINE works? -devotees are not interested in living eternally in this world, if krsna arranges a lila making them stay a little more with us conditioned souls, they obey and stay.... if not.. they go giving their service in spiritual planets. The body is krsna's property and it is the instrument to make devotional service through varnashrama system, so we have the duty to care for it more as we can.. and to help other devotees in this care.... but one day we must go

I also noticed that the translation by anyone believing in "Karma Yoga", gives more stress on "Karma Marg", the one in the "Bhakti Marg", gives stress on Bhakti and the one with "Gyana Marg" gives more stress on "Gyana". Even recently I saw a new translation by a yogi who gives more stress on the "Yoga Marg" in the Bhagvad Gita. ...the secret is "no stressing"... bhagavd gita has to be read "as it is", everything is explained plain and simple: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah SYNONYMS sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry. TRANSLATION Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear. "you abandon unto me" means that arjuna and krsna are separated person, no advaita, no merging, no mental projections by arjuna "abandon" and "surrender" means "abandon any self interest and surrender to me your tendence to be independent"... so love, bhakti "I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. " means that after the surrendering there's no merging or "oneness", because krsna keep caring of the devotee protecting him from the reaction , so two persons united in a loving relationship... bhakti . I have looked says in the preface that anyone who is at the level of Krishna can actually (really) be able to tell the actual meanings of the Slokas ..sure, if one's krsna he understand perfectly bhagavad gita!! the problem is that if one's not krsna he cannot reach His level, it is not possible to get god's status, if one's god, he's eternally god. The only thing to say is that we have to study spiritual scriptures under the guide of a person who sees krsna, who sees the spiritual truth, the real, pure spiritual master So how can a normal man rely on any of the translations available in the market. He will be baffled with the different meanings. ..consider "bhagavad gita as it is" translated and commented by srila bhaktivedanta swami prabhupada... you will have text, sanskrit text, word for word prospect to check if the translation is faithful to the text, traduction, and the commentary of a master who has turned (and he's going on even now trough disciples and other vaishnavas) thousands of "outcastes"(me the worst of them all) all over the world in vedantist and brahmins in an exalted and ortodox spiritual path like gaudya vaishnavism I have also seen Vaishnavas saying that only those surrendering to Krishna (Vishnu) will become free from birth and death. And those worshiping Shiva, Durga and other devas will come back again. ..not if you worship devatas with the purpose to have an help to reach the supreme lord. The supreme goal is to reach the supreme, not the subordinate.. everything is written in gita, the most important thing is not to twist krsna's words, when krsna says "i am supreme.." we have to read "i am supreme..." or, if we have different purposes than reading the words of krsna, better to reject gita and write our own book Are they not liberated from birth and death? Then what about the renowned saints like Shri Ramkrishna Paramhamsa? ..simply we have to learn the basics. The great advantage of vedas in comparison to other ways to reach god is that vedas give privilege to the school approach, not to the faith approach. So there's simply to read bhagavad gita as it is and accept a pure spiritual master with the qualities suggested in gita, from a dinasty (parampara) started by god himself. Guru is acharya,"the one who teachs behaviour... with behaviour", so perfect guru has to be a perfect disciple of another pure guru, otherwise how he can pretend obedience by us?. In this way we will learn who we are, what are our real needs, what's a supreme goal, what's a subordinate goal and what is a dead street or wrong path... gradually..... school, not whimsical inspiration or blind faith why Krishna asked Arjuna to please Lord Shiva and obtain "Pashupatastra" from him ..lila..... one of the opulences of god is humbleness, many times god act as a subordinate of his devotees.. like krsna when he's acting as the little child of yasoda mata receiving chastizements and being bounded by her rope, so in this circumstance lord siva is included in mahabharata lilas in this wonderful way and gita is a lila... the karmic aspect of kuruksetra war is already defined by krsna at the start of the gita "these warriors are already dead....", so krsna, as the creator and sustainer of karma law has already the preminence and victory before the battle starts the real purpose og kurukserta battle is to delight devotees with the display of all these wonderful exchanges between these exalted personalities and to have the opportunity, for sri krsna bhagavan, to newly announce his gospel, message, truth with the gita and give new start to spiritual dinasy, parampara There was no need for Arjuna to obtain "Pashupat Astra" since Lord Krishna was driving his chariot. ..no, why? the protection of krsna is in the suggestion to get pashupata from lord siva, krsna many times, chooses to act through his devotees So I think that the laws of Gita are universal whether we worship Shiva, Durga, Bramha, Vishnu. ..the laws of gita are universal and effective even for us if we abandone a little the "i think", "i believe" concept and we study these laws in a cultural, scientific way (=school) under the guidance of a real spiritual master coming directly from a dinasty, school, university (=parampara) started by krsna, the one who speaks the gita. Other considerations are marginal... hare krishna dear rohit.... tell me pleaSe what you think of my answer check this.. http://www.asitis.com/

sri krsna and sri vishnu are surely the same person, there's no many gods, we are not polytheists.. simply there's difference in the kind of personality displayed in the lilas and in the number of qualities displayed. Krsna is considered an higher display of god's personality, in comparison with sri vishnu, because krsna shows his intimate pastimes. like a nation's president, or king: Vishnu is the king when he is in his role, job, official function of king: government, dealing with allies and enemies, some times punishing, some time angry, fighting etc... Krishna is the same king when, back home, he displays his loving intimacy with parents, relatives, friends, sons, lovers, wifes etc. So for the intimacy and for the more complete (actually the most complete) display of powers (shakti) of krsna in his lilas (he displays also vishnu qualities, but vishnu never displays the same intimacy), we consider krsna not the supreme god, there's not many god, god is one.. we consider krsna the supreme personality of godhead, or the supreme display of god's personality krsna is so sweet in his intimate pastimes that, using yoga maya, he makes his associates think that he's an ordinary son, friend, lover, father, husband to care for... when he puts on the vishnu's uniform, he's more official... but he remains our beloved sri krsna bhagavan

sorry... it is CHAUVINIST in italian maschilista.. so i cut the last vocal to make it sound english

sridhara swami maharaja ki jaya

installing is not necessary as said by livingentity.. but if you can have 3 or 4 thousand people to greet them with a huge kirtan they will be surely pleased because they come to your house to bring holy name in every town and village so i vote for your friends and temple devotees kirtan with prasadam feast and krsna katha......... on regular basis!!

krsna was simply keeping me away from the devotees to protect them by my offences

oh.. no documents a BBC tv program on videotape: CULT very nice with Bhaktivedanta Manor... Soho street.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i was 22 years old and i was living at villa vrindavan iskcon temple in florence, italy... my parents were not agree and, trough the catholic bishop, they had the contact with a deprogrammer, martin fayers, english, ex adept of sun myung moon with some experience and success in making people getting out from little sects or even official religions. (a little charismatic person, with some adepts voluntarily acting for him as information sources, financial and other helps and so on.... very funny) they, together with my father, kidnapped me near the gate of villa vrindavan and brought me in a house in a little village in tuscany at about 50km from florence. i was very frightened because i have heard of ted patrick in the usa, but the thing was very soft, i was allowed to have my food buyed separately by my parents at the supermarket, i had not phisical bad treatments (i have not used the world "abuses" because my poor english does not know if abuses are meant only for sexual abuses).. i was only closed in this house and i had to hear many discourses and lessons on the danger of sects, the danger of hare krishnas, the money stolen by leaders, prabhupada getting senile and maschilist (trying to demonstrate it with the most huge collection of back to godhead magazine i have seen), guru falling... i had some visits from deprogrammed harekrishnas including a funny (ex)devotee, prabhupada disciple, from germany with bad stories on leaders but very nice ones about his experiences with prabhupada. i had only my japa taken away my impression was that their main effort was to cheat my parents and relatives to have more money possible from them... and the attention and the efforts were more to make them see that something efficient and well organized was going on than on me and my deprogrammation. They had armed people at the four angles of the lawn around the house, they were ever engaged in speaking to my parents on the danger of the sects, the fact that it was possible to see armed harekrishnas commandos come and kidnap me and so on... their attention was more on them than me i, even if a young bhakta, was a friend with some leaders in iskcon italy, i had many services with these devotees, i knew already the things that were not going well in the movement, guru fallings, hamsadutta, kirtanananda's stuff, suspects of prabhupada poisoning and so on.... i sometimes brought the samkirtan(book selling) money in the bank, so the deprogrammers had very few bad hings about harekrishhnas to say to me that i did not know before. i was also for some time in the bhagavan prabhu's entourage, then bhagavan goswami, zonal guru of many countries including italy.... and even if we have seen that he was not fit to act as a guru, i observed personally and with some intimacy, great dedication and loyalty in making his service so speaking with deprogrammers was not for me a great surprise, i know more bad thing about hare krishnas than them.. or i knew when these thing were lies i was "prisoner" in this house for ten days, i know for sure that my parents gave to these demons (in lire) 15.000 euros for that days.. consider that we were in 1984, consider that now in italy the majority of people live reasonably well with 1000, 1300 euros a month.. consider that my father was desperate because i was not in any way convinced by them and i, seeing him crying like a baby, out of sentiment, i accepted to go twenty days in the martin fayer's house in the french alps to see "the decisive documents" that they had about hare krishna sect and it was not possible to bring with them in italy "for obvious safety reasons" this 20 days in france turned out as a useless vacation payed by my parents, when i was basically free to do anything, make a little shopping, listening to the huge record collection of fayers, seeing tv, playing outside with the snow, going in the town and surroundings as a tourist and so on for me it was an elegant way to quit the temple (temple was one of the nicest experiences of my life... but i am not at all a monk) as an hero without blooping or making bad things inside, after some time i come to the temple and i helped to put up an antideprogrammers course for devotees. And it worked, someone else was kidnapped and he was more clever than me, instead of arguing.. "ok you are right.. hare krishna is bad... give me the blue jeans i want to go in disco!!" and they went out after two days and come back to the temple indeed i am happy to have practiced krishna consciousness out of the temple even in years when it was considered an heresy, i know for sure that bhagavan himself was concerned and praying for me, i know that some iskcon italian big leaders often criticized were very affectionate to me and passed long days in the car searching me ... and i am very grateful, i was really feeling to have real friends between devotees some leaders proposed to me to proceed legally against my parents but i did not do it.. they were the real plagiarized, not me, they had the real damage (my father was a simple train driver... my mother did some works as a taylor at home, my father made for years another job making scenes and structures for teathers together with the "official" job ... poor souls! ) and some other italian devotees convinced by iskcon to do like that, were abandoned by iskcon ten years after when it was the time to go in the court... the line was changed, and fighting deprogrammers was no more a priority... devotees, in a less fanatical mood, have reconciled with parents and relatives, the movement was at all not interested to sustain them, the leaders of the 80s were no more leaders.. so i leave to you to imagine the mess... (sorry for my english)

i was kidnapped by deprogrammers in 1984 in italy...