RadheyRadhey108

Agreed.

There's a translation by Barbara Stoler-Miller called, "The Love Song of the Dark Lord". You might want to look it up on Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble. Have you ever heard the story where a young girl was once outside of the Jaganatha temple singing Gita Govinda for Lord Krishna, and when the priests returned to do Aarti for Him, His dhoti was ripped b/c when He'd left the temple to go hear the girl's song it got snagged by something?

I'd like Obama if he weren't pro-abortion.

Pikachu and the Kangaroo riding around in Hitler's Volkswagon

Once again, Ajahn Jagaro isn't the Buddha... let's see what the Buddha Himself has to say: "Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison. These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in." -Pali Canon; Vanijja Sutta, Anguttara, 5.177 Then Maha-Kasyapaika-gotra asked, “If it is very important to uphold the impropriety of meat-eating, would it not then be wrong to give meat to those who do not want meat?” [The Buddha replied:] “Excellent, noble son, excellent! You have understood my intention. One who protects the authentic Dharma should not do that. Noble son, henceforth I do not permit my disciples to eat meat. If I have said that [one should view] the country’s alms-food as the flesh of one’s son, how could I permit the eating of meat? I teach that the eating of meat cuts off Great Loving-kindness.” “Blessed One, why did you permit the eating of meat that was blameless in three respects?” “Because I stipulated these three types of blameless as a provisional basis of training; I now discard them.” “Blessed One, what was your intention in talking of the ninefold great benefit and the abandoning of the ten types of meat?” “Because those pronouncements were stipulated to restrict the eating of meat; they are also withdrawn.” “Blessed One, what was your intention in stating that meat and fish are wholesome foodstuffs?” “I did not say that meat and fish are wholesome foodstuffs, but I have said that sugar-cane, winter-rice, ordinary rice, wheat, barley, green lentils, black lentils, molasses, sugar, honey, ghee, milk and sesame oil are wholesome foodstuffs. If I have taught that even the various garments for covering the body should be dyed an unattractive colour, then how much more so [i.e. undesirable] attachment to the taste of meat foods!” “In that case, does it not follow that the five milk products, sesame, sesame oil, sugar-cane sap, conch-shell, silk and so forth also violate the precepts?” “Don’t cleave to the views of the Nirgranthas! I have imposed the bases of training upon you with a different intention: I stipulate that you should not even eat meat blameless in the three respects. Even those meats other than the ten [previously forbidden] kinds should be abandoned. The meat of corpses should also be abandoned. All creatures sense the odor and are frightened by meat-eaters, no matter if they are moving around or resting. If a person eats asafetida or garlic, everybody else feels uncomfortable and alienated – whether in a crowd of many people or in the midst of many creatures, they all know that that person has eaten them. Similarly, all creatures can recognize a person who eats meat and, when they catch the odor, they are frightened by the terror of death. Wherever that person roams, the beings in the waters, on dry land or in the sky are frightened. Thinking that they will be killed by that person, they even swoon or die. For these reasons, Bodhisattva-mahasattvas do not eat meat. Even though they may appear to eat meat on account of those to be converted, since they do not actually eat ordinary food, then how much less so meat! Noble son, when many hundreds of years have elapsed after I have gone, there will be no stream-enterers, once-returners, non-returners or arhats. In the age of the Dharma’s decline, there will be monks who preserve the vinaya and abhidharma and who have a multitude of rituals, but who also look after their physical well-being, who highly esteem various kinds of meat, whose humours are disturbed, who are troubled by hunger and thirst, whose clothing looks a fright, who have robes with splashes of colour like a cowherd or a fowler, who behave like cats, who assert that they are arhats, who are pained by many hurts, whose bodies will be soiled with their own feces and urine, who dress themselves well as though they were munis, who dress themselves as sramanas [ascetic wanderers], though they are not, and who hold spurious writings to be the authentic Dharma. These people destroy what I have devised – the vinaya, rites, comportment and the authentic utterances that free and liberate one from attachment to what is improper, selecting and reciting passages from each of the sutras according to their inclinations. Thus there will appear [bogus] sramanas, sons of Shakyamuni [the Buddha], who will claim that, ‘According to our vinaya, the Blessed One has said that alms of meat-stuffs are acceptable’ and who will concoct their own [scriptures] and contradict each other. “Moreover, noble son, there will also be those who accept raw cereals, meat and fish, do their own cooking and [stock-pile] pots of sesame oil; who frequent leather-makers, parasol-makers and royalty … The person I call a monk is one who abandons those things.” “Blessed One, what should be done by monks, nuns, male lay followers of Buddhism and female lay followers of Buddhism, who depend upon what is offered to them, to purify alms-food that contains meat in such places where the food has not been verified?” “Noble son, I have taught that it does not contradict the vinaya in any way if they wash it [i.e. the non-meat food] with water and then eat it. If it appears that the food in such places contains a lot of prepared meat, it should be rejected. There is no fault if one vessel touches another but the food is not actually mixed together. I say that even meat, fish, game, dried hooves and scraps of meat left over by others constitute an infraction. Previously, I taught this in cases arising from the needs of the situation. Now, on this occasion, I teach the harm arising from meat-eating. Being the time when I shall pass into Parinirvana, this is a comprehensive declaration.” -Maha Parinirvana Sutra "Abandoning the taking of life, the ascetic Gautama dwells refraining from taking life, without stick or sword." --Digha Nikaya 1.18

Finally, a sane person on Audarya who admits that sacrifices were committed in the name of God in Vedic times.

Rather interesting. Thanks Suchandra Ji.

The Buddha was preaching warfare in the Buddhist Tantras as much as Lord Shiva was preaching incest, abandoning all worship for worship of the yoni, prostitution, and necrophilia as a means of self-realization in the Hindu Tantras. Oh, wow. Which Indologist concocted this theory? Or did you just make it up all on your own?

Yea. "But... he... he called me names first!" Sounds rather childish, I suppose.

Here's the conversation that went on in the 'Isn't Buddhist just a form of Vedanta?' thread: Indulekha Dasi said (quoting Srila Jayadeva Goswami): nindasi yajna-vidher ahaha shruti-jatam sadaya-hrdaya darsita-pasu-ghatam keshava dhrta-buddha-sarira jaya jagadisa hare O Keshava! O Lord of the universe! O Lord Hari, who have assumed the form of Buddha! All glories to You! O Buddha of compassionate heart, you decry the slaughtering of poor animals performed according to the rules of Vedic sacrifice. To which Kingdecember said: Even if brahmins killed animals it doesn't mean that it is sanctioned in 'Vedas'. If Jayadeva Goswami is of the opinion that animals should be sacrificed as per Vedas, than I think he was not in his senses. I would like to share this article with all those who think that killing of animals is sanctioned in Vedas. Scriptures Against Killing and Meat-Eating Hindu scripture speaks clearly and forcefully on nonkilling and vegetarianism. In the ancient Rig Veda, we read: "O vegetable, be succulent, wholesome, strengthening; and thus, body, be fully grown." The Yajur Veda summarily dictates: "Do not injure the beings living on the earth, in the air and in the water." The beautiful Tirukural, a widely-read 2,000-year-old masterpiece of ethics, speaks of conscience: "When a man realizes that meat is the butchered flesh of another creature, he must abstain from eating it." The Manu Samhita advises: "Having well considered the origin of flesh and the cruelty of fettering and slaying of corporeal beings, let one entirely abstain from eating flesh." In the yoga-infused verses of the Tirumantiram, warning is given of how meat-eating holds the mind in gross, adharmic states: "The ignoble ones who eat flesh, death's agents bind them fast and push them quick into the fiery jaws of hell (Naraka, lower consciousness)." The roots of noninjury, nonkilling and nonconsumption of meat are found in the Vedas, agamas, Upanishads, Dharma Shastras, Tirumurai, Yoga Sutras and dozens of other sacred texts of Hinduism. Here is a select collection. Vedas and agamas, Hinduism's Revealed Scriptures LET YOUR AIMS BE COMMON, and your hearts be of one accord, and all of you be of one mind, so you may live well together. Rig Veda Samhita 10.191 Protect both our species, two-legged and four-legged. Both food and water for their needs supply. May they with us increase in stature and strength. Save us from hurt all our days, O Powers! Rig Veda Samhita 10.37.11. VE, 319 One who partakes of human flesh, the flesh of a horse or of another animal, and deprives others of milk by slaughtering cows, O King, if such a fiend does not desist by other means, then you should not hesitate to punish such a person. Rig Veda Samhita, 10.87.16, FS 90 Peaceful be the earth, peaceful the ether, peaceful heaven, peaceful the waters, peaceful the herbs, peaceful the trees. May all Gods bring me peace. May there be peace through these invocations of peace. With these invocations of peace which appease everything, I render peaceful whatever here is terrible, whatever here is cruel, whatever here is sinful. Let it become auspicious, let everything be beneficial to us. Atharva Veda Samhita 10. 191. 4 Those noble souls who practice meditation and other yogic ways, who are ever careful about all beings, who protect all animals, are the ones who are actually serious about spiritual practices. Atharva Veda Samhita 19.48.5. FS, 90 If we have injured space, the earth or heaven, or if we have offended mother or father, from that may Agni, fire of the house, absolve us and guide us safely to the world of goodness. Atharva Veda Samhita 6.120.1. VE, 636 You must not use your God-given body for killing God's creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever. Yajur Veda Samhita 12.32. FS, 90 May all beings look at me with a friendly eye. May I do likewise, and may we all look on each other with the eyes of a friend. Yajur Veda 36.18. Nonviolence is all the offerings. Renunciation is the priestly honorarium. The final purification is death. Thus all the Divinities are established in this body. Krishna Yajur Veda, Prana Upanishad 46-8. VE, 413-14 To the heavens be peace, to the sky and the earth; to the waters be peace, to plants and all trees; to the Gods be peace, to Brahman be peace, to all men be peace, again and again-peace also to me! O earthen vessel, strengthen me. May all beings regard me with friendly eyes! May I look upon all creatures with friendly eyes! With a friend's eye may we regard each other! Shukla Yajur Veda Samhita 36.17-18. VE, 306; 342 No pain should be caused to any created being or thing. Devikalottara agama, JAV 69-79. RM, 116 To which I said (as a means of showing that sacrifices are, at the very least, alluded to in the Vedas): "Slight us not Varuna, nor Aryaman, nor Mitra, nor Indra, nor Ayu, nor the Maruts, When we declare amid the congregation the virtues of the strong Steed, God-descended. What time they bear before the Courser, covered with trappings and with wealth, the grasped oblation, The dappled goat goeth straightforward, bleating, to the place dear to Indra and to Pusan. Dear to all Gods, this goat, the share of Pusan, is first led forward with the vigorous Courser, While Tvastar sends him forward with the Charger, acceptable for sacrifice, to glory. When thrice the men lead round the Steed, in order, who goeth to the Gods as meet oblations, The goat precedeth him, the share of Pusan, and to the Gods the sacrifice announceth. Invoker, ministering priest, atoner, fire-kindler Soma-presser, sage, reciter, With this well ordered sacrifice, well finished, do ye fill full the channels of the rivers. The hewers of the post and those who carry it, and those who carve the knob to deck the Horse's stake; Those who prepare the cooking-vessels for the Steed,—may the approving help of these promote our work. Forth, for the regions of the Gods, the Charger with his smooth back is come my prayer attends him. In him rejoice the singers and the sages. A good friend have we won for the Gods’ banquet. May the fleet Courser's halter and his heel-ropes, the head-stall and the girths and cords about him. And the grass put within his mouth to bait him,—among the Gods, too, let all these be with thee. What part of the Steed's flesh the fly hath eaten, or is left sticking to the post or hatchet, Or to the slayer's hands and nails adhereth,—among the Gods, too, may all this be with thee. Food undigested steaming from his belly, and any odour of raw flesh remaining, This let the immolators set in order and dress the sacrifice with perfect cooking. What from thy body which with fire is roasted, when thou art set upon the spit, distilleth, Let not that lie on earth or grass neglected, but to the longing Gods let all be offered. They who observing that the Horse is ready call out and say, the smell is good; remove it; And, craving meat, await the distribution,—may their approving help promote labour. The trial-fork of the flesh-cooking caldron, the vessels out of which the broth is sprinkled, The warming-pots, the covers of the dishes, hooks, carving-boards,—all these attend the Charger. The starting-place, his place of rest and rolling, the ropes wherewith the Charger's feet were fastened, The water that he drank, the food he tasted,—among the Gods, too, may all these attend thee. Let not the fire, smoke-scented, make thee crackle, nor glowing caldron smell and break to pieces. Offered, beloved, approved, and consecrated,—such Charger do the Gods accept with favour. The robe they spread upon the Horse to clothe him, the upper covering and the golden trappings, The halters which restrain the Steed, the heel-ropes,—all these, as grateful to the Gods, they offer. If one, when seated, with excessive urging hath with his heel or with his whip distressed thee, All these thy woes, as with the oblations' ladle at sacrifices, with my prayer I banish. The four-and-thirty ribs of the. Swift Charger, kin to the Gods, the slayer's hatchet pierces. Cut ye with skill, so that the parts be flawless, and piece by piece declaring them dissect them. Of Tvastar's Charger there is one dissector,—this is the custom-two there are who guide him. Such of his limbs as I divide in order, these, amid the balls, in fire I offer. Let not thy dear soul burn thee as thou comest, let not the hatchet linger in thy body. Let not a greedy clumsy immolator, missing the joints, mangle thy limbs unduly. No, here thou diest not, thou art not injured: by easy paths unto the Gods thou goest. Both Bays, both spotted mares are now thy fellows, and to the ass's pole is yoked the Charger. May this Steed bring us all-sustaining riches, wealth in good kine, good horses, manly offspring. Freedom from sin may Aditi vouchsafe us: the Steed with our oblations gain us lordship!" --Rig Veda 1.162 "What time, first springing into life, thou neighedst, proceeding from the sea or upper waters, Limbs of the deer hadst thou, and eagle pinions. O Steed, thy birth is nigh and must be lauded. This Steed which Yama gave hath Trita harnessed, and him, the first of all, hath Indra mounted. His bridle the Gandharva grasped. O Vasus, from out the Sun ye fashioned forth the Courser. Yama art thou, O Horse; thou art Aditya; Trita art thou by secret operation. Thou art divided thoroughly from Soma. They say thou hast three bonds in heaven that hold thee. Three bonds, they say, thou hast in heaven that bind thee, three in the waters, three within the ocean. To me thou seemest Varuna, O Courser, there where they say is thy sublimest birth-place. Here-, Courser, are the places where they groomed thee, here are the traces of thy hoofs as winner. Here have I seen the auspicious reins that guide thee, which those who guard the holy Law keep safely. Thyself from far I recognized in spirit,—a Bird that from below flew through the heaven. I saw thy head still soaring, striving upward by paths unsoiled by dust, pleasant to travel. Here I beheld thy form, matchless in glory, eager to win thee food at the Cow's station. Whenever a man brings thee to thine enjoyment, thou swallowest the plants most greedy eater. After thee, Courser, come the car, the bridegroom, the kine come after, and the charm of maidens. Full companies have followed for thy friendship: the pattern of thy vigour Gods have copied. Horns made of gold hath he: his feet are iron: less fleet than he, though swift as thought, is Indra. The Gods have come that they may taste the sacrifice of him who mounted, first of all, the Courser. Symmetrical in flank, with rounded haunches, mettled like heroes, the Celestial Coursers Put forth their strength, like swans in lengthened order, when they, the Steeds, have reached the heavenly causeway. A body formed for flight hast thou, O Charger; swift as the wind in motion is thy spirit. Thy horns are spread abroad in all directions: they move with restless beat in wildernesses. The strong Steed hath come forward to the slaughter, pondering with a mind directed God-ward. The goat who is his kin is led before him the sages and the singers follow after. The Steed is come unto the noblest mansion, is come unto his Father and his Mother. This day shall he approach the Gods, most welcome: then he declares good gifts to him who offers." --Rig Veda 1.163 I'm not sure if you consider the above verses to be symbolic of something else, but I can assure you that in Lord Buddha's time, most Brahmins took them literally and sacrificed animals. So, no matter what, Srila Jiva Goswami was right in what he said, since the Vedas (at the very least appear) to approve of the sacrifice of animals (in some parts), and people did sacrifice animals according to these Vedic injunctions. So, I guess what I said was so terrible that I needed to be called an idiot. And, about Kalighat, here's what happened there: ARJ (another guy on the 'Buddhism' forum): 1st how did you know [animal sacrifice] did occur Me: It still occurs! Some Hindus still sacrifice animals to God b/c they think that He wants it from the Vedas! Do you really think that every historian in the world is wrong about animal sacrifice having been perfomed in ancient India? I mean, it still occurs today. Why wouldn't it have occured at the beginning of the Kali Yuga as well? ARJ: Ever heard about the 'Lies of White Men' Me: Oh please. Once again, many Hindus still practice animal sacrifice today based on their ideas of Vedic sacrifice... but I suppose the Kalighat Temple is also a lie of the white man... right?<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Mostly cheeses (since it's used as a preservative)... and KRAFT MACARONI AND CHEESE!!! I always check the ingredients of everything I buy ... maybe you should too.

I agree. Some good points made. I still think the Buddha Avatar was Gautama (and that there was a Buddha Avatar), but I must say you make your point well.

Namaste Sri Ganesh-guy Prabhu I think he was most likely from ISKCON. Some people in the ISKCON math think that since Krishna is beyond any concepts held by any religion (since He is the only one who truly knows Himself), that His worship is not Hindu as well (or something along those lines... I don't fall under that belief, so I don't really know much about their reasoning). I, currently, have no way of attending temple or having a guru or even interacting with devotees (as my state has never been graced by such a presence), and I consider myself a Gaudiya Vaishnava, as I believe in Lord Chaitanya's philosphy. I mean, I'm not initiated or anything, but I chant rounds of the Maha Mantra and I read the scriptures, so I don't see how I'm not a Gaudiya Vaishnava. I think the Lord is more concerned with the temple of the heart than whether you are able to practice external worship in the temple. Also, you can turn your home into your own personal temple if you wish (that's what I've tried to do, with deities of Radha-Krishna and Nitai-Gaura). Not that it's bad to attend temple or anything (it's obviously very good), but if you're not able to (as I'm not able to), then I think the Lord is fine with your service at home and in your heart just the same.

Why (if we are to assume that Gautama isn't the Buddha Avatara) isn't the Buddha avatara famous? All the other avatars of the Lord are famous and we know Their different Lilas. Why is this one different? And, if # 3 is the most logical choice, then how can we trust the Puranas on Krishna or Rama or any of the other Avatars?

Dharma is very hard to explain. It means many things to many people. Dharma can be a person's duty, but it can also be a teaching. It can be a person's religious duty as well. I suppose wikipedia would be the place to go for different definitions. I suppose you could use the dictionary definition if nothing else (although I don't really think it grasps the full meaning of Dharma, which includes devotion to God, which is totally out of the bounds of religious or social codes): 1. performing of duties of Hinduism: in Hinduism, a person’s duty to behave according to strict religious and social codes, or the righteousness earned by performing religious and social duties. Also called dhamma 2. eternal truth in Buddhism: in Buddhism, the truth about the way things are, and will always be, in the universe or in nature, especially when contained in scripture Sorry I couldn't be of more help ... hopefully wikipedia can help on the issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma

Thx They're absolutely beautiful! I just need to find the 108 names of Tulasi Mataji to thank Her! I really like the skull mala on there... I'd get it if it weren't made from actual bone (well... if I knew how they got the bone to make it)!

Bija Prabhu, I got my Tulasi japa mala today Thank you so much for leading me to them!

"If you have to ask, you'll never know.":D

But He's far too sweet to remain angry with for even a second!

Oh, that naughty Little YashodaNandana!

Are they Hindu or did they just like the ceremonies and what they represented?

Yea... you're still the mleccha, since you still believe that the Puranas have been so defiled that even the Dasha Avatara are now in question. And He also made people call His mother Anjanaa? But, could you please give me any information on this other Buddha Avatar of the Lord, who's not Gautama? What was His birth name? How long did He live? Where did He live? Why is He not famous in the slightest?

He's not only a scholar, he's a divine representative sent to tell us that Krishna Lila as detailed in the Puranas never happened, because all the Puranas are totally worthless and only for idiots! Oh, thank God someone has been sent to take us away from Him!

It's a Tantric book. There are Tantras in Hinduism where Lord Shiva says that it's okay to practice necrophilia and incest as long as you're doing it for self-realization. Do you believe that? Well, just as you (I'm hoping) don't believe that, similarly many Buddhists don't believe in the Buddhist Tantras. So, I take it you don't believe in most of Krishna Lila, since most of it is detailed within Puranas? And, you don't believe in Puranas, so you must not believe in most of the avatars, like Matsya, Kurma, Varaha, Narasimha, Parashuram, (Rama is mentioned in Ramayana and Bhagavata Purana, and as I'm not sure how you feel about Ramayana, I won't mention Him), most of Krishna Lila, or Kalki. Hmmm. Well, after all of that, all I have to say is: Always nice to have another mleccha at Audarya.

I think it's up to any Vaishnava to accept either Gautama Buddha as an Avatara, or an older Buddha as an Avatara. There's evidence for both, so I suppose it's up to us. It seems strange to me though that there would be an Avatara of the Lord so un-famous that only a few select Vaishnavas know of Him. And that He would be so similar (same titles, similar missions, large life events happening in the same place, mothers having the same name, etc...) to another, later, and more famous Buddha. Unless He expressed the exact same Lila twice in the same Yuga, I'm not thinking that there are two Buddhas (the incarnation being the far less famous).