John Lennon, my Inspiration

[Guest guest]

Well Llan is usualy a church, llew is lion, derwydd is druid, lladd is kill or slaughter, sorry bit rusty........... The Valley Vegan.................Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >In Welsh? Allow me to translate: Llan llewyllen derwydd lladdell... how's that? (BTW, just in case I've said anything rude in Welsh, I don't speak the language, and just strung together a few words that have lots of lls and dds)... BB Peter The Valley Vegan.........earthstrm <earthstorm wrote: Hi PeterI think you should go just to take notes for the rest of us. :)Nikki , peter VV wrote:>> If they need a referee, I have a garden hose, a piece of 4 x 2, and can shout loudly.> > The Valley Vegan............> > earthstrm wrote: > Hi Michael,> > > PPS If you're ever over in the UK, look me up.> > Well that is perfect, he is! Perhaps you two could meet for coffee > sometime and get it

all done at once. > > Nikki

[Guest guest]

I`ll ignore the first sarcastic comment, and just take the second as a rare moment of praise from you................ The Valley Vegan.................Peter Kebbell <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter So, you feeling a bit stuck for something to do this evening? ;-) But interesting stuff, nonetheless :-) BB Peter On 10/06/06, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote: Coiln, a fine-sounding expletive,

but hardly heard on anybody's lips these days, and with a dated feel. It seems eminently English: think of elderly ex-Indian-Army colonels in retirement in Tunbridge Wells exploding in wrath over some supposed mismanagement of the country's affairs and writing disgusted letters to The Times about it. And most of the citations for it in the big Oxford English Dictionary are from British sources. But, as the OED reminds us, the word is actually American in origin, first turning up there about 1865. The OED is silent on its origin, but most modern dictionaries know well where it comes from: the Dutch word pappekak for soft faeces. The word was presumably taken to the USA by Dutch settlers; the scatological associations were lost when the word moved into the English-language community. The first half of the word is closely related to our pap for infants' soft food; the second half is essentially the same as the old English

cack for excrement; the verb form of this word is older than the noun, and has been recorded as far back as the fifteenth century. So there's no link with the vulgar meaning of cock. Nor is it linked to the sense of cock for rubbish (as in phrases like that's a load of old cock), as that's a shortened form of cock and bull story, which comes from a fable concerning a bull and a cockerel. So wash your mouth out.......... The Valley Vegan............ Colin Sky <colinsky wrote: hi peter.

poppycock. peace colin. - Peter Kebbell Friday, June 09, 2006 9:05 PM Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration Hi Colin > jealous guy could'n't have been written by an average song writer only by a musical genius > with fantastic depth. Most of Lennon's material is three chord songs. I was writing that sort of stuff when I was 12. As someone once said, Tony Clarkin could have knocked out a whole Beatles album in his lunch hour... BB Peter Peter H Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Peter H

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

>Well Llan is usualy a church, llew is lion, derwydd is druid, lladd is kill or slaughter, sorry bit rusty...........

 

Looks like I did pretty well :-).... but, if Llan is church, what is Eglwys (the vowels might be in a different order, but it's something like that!)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Eglwys also means church, Llan can mean that or village, depends oin which context. The Valley Vegan............. Peter <metalscarab wrote: Hi Peter >Well Llan is usualy a church, llew is lion, derwydd is druid, lladd is kill or slaughter, sorry bit rusty........... Looks like I did pretty well :-).... but, if Llan is church, what is Eglwys (the vowels might be in a different order, but it's something like that!) BB Peter Peter H

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking john and there is enough ammunition to damn the most of us.

so i guess some would love to know more about me so they could then carry on about me, eg. i have been unfaithful, have taken drugs.... and couldn't even play the damned guitar very well.... who needs enemies when we have vegans here to judge us?

 

i am not taking part in an argument.

 

john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

 

that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

 

i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say something about, but i don't like to get down to that level of communication if i can avoid it.

 

what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic example of a multi, multi millionaire and a man of rare original thought. if u never could see this, that's okay, there is no need to convince those that did that they are deluded.

 

stick with conversations about dr who. u are more knowlegeable about him.

 

 

peace

 

colin

 

 

-

Peter

Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:59 PM

Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

 

 

 

Hi Colin

 

>poppycock.

 

Congratulations on a well reasoned argument there ;-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

hi michael,

 

I'd be curious

to know how

many of us were

vegetarians

back in the 1970's

 

certainly it was much harder.

I am one of the rare ones

and was born a vegetarian

in that sense I have never tasted

meat or fish.

 

however, I know for sure that it

was damn hard,

my mom and I walked for miles

trying to find a health food store

when I was a kid.

 

and when they feed me soya milk

it tasted gross.

back then, it tasted nothing like it does

today.

 

so who are we to judge someone for not being

vegetarian in the 1970's?

 

Vegetarianism/veganism is something that is progressing with people's

growing awareness everyday.

any naturally evolving person would reach it, and it's ok to

stumble.

 

 

 

, " Michael Benis " <michaelbenis

wrote:

>

> He was never really big on vegetarianism ever and never claimed to be.

>

> His most dangerous drug part from heroin was booze and he largely

stopped

> it.

>

> Learning and changing doesn't mean becoming perfect.

>

>

>

>

> On

> Behalf Of jo

> 08 June 2006 20:45

>

> Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>

> He didn't learn though. He kept going back to drugs - just like he kept

> having a go at pretending to be vegetarian and deviating from it.

>

> Jo

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter,

 

you must think about how this sounds,

when you say to someone,

 

" I was writting that stuff at 12 and my friends can write

better songs than Imagine. "

 

if, they were, then they better Run, not walk...

to the nearest record executive, with their demos.

 

they are sitting on a million dollars

and we need more songs like Imagine.

 

by the way, if this guy Tony Clarskin was writing

beatles albums in his lunch hour..

 

how come I've never heard of him?

 

 

, " Peter Kebbell " <metalscarab

wrote:

>

> Hi Colin

>

> > jealous guy could'n't have been written by an average song writer

only by

> a musical genius

> > with fantastic depth.

>

> Most of Lennon's material is three chord songs. I was writing that

sort of

> stuff when I was 12. As someone once said, Tony Clarkin could have

knocked

> out a whole Beatles album in his lunch hour...

>

> BB

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with this michael,

 

the song Imagine is increadibly naive and simplistic

yet so powerful,

 

people have consistantly voted it as their number 1 all time

song in many countries.

 

it is so feared, here in the South, that you cannot

listen to it on the radio.

 

since the Republicans own 98 percent of the radio stations

here, they have actually censored it and

it is not allowed to be played. (i wish i was kidding)

 

must be

the line about no country and no religion and no

possesions.

 

Doesn't hit to well with the Bush Lovers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Michael Benis " <michaelbenis

wrote:

>

> It doesn't have to be complex to be good - that goes for music as

much as

> for ideas.... :-)

>

> _____

>

> On

> Behalf Of Peter Kebbell

> 09 June 2006 10:05

>

> Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>

>

> Hi Colin

>

> > jealous guy could'n't have been written by an average song writer

only by

> a musical genius

> > with fantastic depth.

>

> Most of Lennon's material is three chord songs. I was writing that

sort of

> stuff when I was 12. As someone once said, Tony Clarkin could have

knocked

> out a whole Beatles album in his lunch hour...

>

> BB

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

it had to do with the instruction of mr. weinberger

and a self deprecatory attitude of thinking

that you don't fit in anywhere.

 

 

, peter VV <swpgh01 wrote:

>

> Now you`ve totally lost me now? am I too stupid for this thread or

what.............

>

>

> Duh..........

> Dribbles.............

>

> The Valley Vegan..................

>

> Colin Sky <colinsky wrote:

> so, I am a loud mouth hispanic girl, with some jewish

> instruction.

>

> do they have those in wales or england?

>

>

> i wish they had them here in nz...

>

> peace

>

> colin

> -

> Anouk Sickler

>

> Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:49 PM

> Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>

>

>

>

>

> Peter H

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.

>

[Guest guest]

hi colin,

 

I often wonder,

 

is there a double standard?

for instance,

i don't know a lot about heavy metal

but I know that there must be plenty

of heavy metal i.e. ozzy osbourn, etc.

 

who were unfaithful to their wives (hurt the people they love)

or had problems with heroin.

 

yet their (heavy metal) fans love them

just the same.

listen to their music, and most importantly

do not judge them.

 

you know,

they base their love more on the public persona

rather focus on personal private life of the musician.

 

I do not put others people music down,

That is what makes them happy,

What is in their heart.

 

and if that means disagreeing with the group owner,

the moderators, and his mom, so be it.

I would hate to be a member of a group

where

everybody was always pleasing each other.

that is boring and a waste of time.

 

 

, " Colin Sky " <colinsky wrote:

>

> hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking john

and there is enough ammunition to damn the most of us.

> so i guess some would love to know more about me so they could then

carry on about me, eg. i have been unfaithful, have taken drugs....

and couldn't even play the damned guitar very well.... who needs

enemies when we have vegans here to judge us?

>

> i am not taking part in an argument.

>

> john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

>

> that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

>

> i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say

something about, but i don't like to get down to that level of

communication if i can avoid it.

>

> what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic

example of a multi, multi millionaire and a man of rare original

thought. if u never could see this, that's okay, there is no need to

convince those that did that they are deluded.

>

> stick with conversations about dr who. u are more knowlegeable about

him.

>

>

> peace

>

> colin

>

> -

> Peter

>

> Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:59 PM

> Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>

>

>

> Hi Colin

>

> >poppycock.

>

> Congratulations on a well reasoned argument there ;-)

>

> BB

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

Colin

 

What makes you think that just because you say you won't become

involved in an argument other people will not comment on what you

have said.

 

Personally I am not interested in your faults and wrong-doings as, as

far as I am aware, not many people have said you are an icon to be

admired.

 

Jo

 

 

, " Colin Sky " <colinsky wrote:

>

> hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking

john and there is enough ammunition to damn the most of us.

> so i guess some would love to know more about me so they could then

carry on about me, eg. i have been unfaithful, have taken drugs....

and couldn't even play the damned guitar very well.... who needs

enemies when we have vegans here to judge us?

>

> i am not taking part in an argument.

>

> john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

>

> that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

>

> i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say

something about, but i don't like to get down to that level of

communication if i can avoid it.

>

> what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic

example of a multi, multi millionaire and a man of rare original

thought. if u never could see this, that's okay, there is no need to

convince those that did that they are deluded.

>

> stick with conversations about dr who. u are more knowlegeable

about him.

>

>

> peace

>

> colin

>

> -

> Peter

>

> Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:59 PM

> Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>

>

>

> Hi Colin

>

> >poppycock.

>

> Congratulations on a well reasoned argument there ;-)

>

> BB

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

Not everyone who writes good music becomes famous, and some people

become famous through writing mediocre music. There is no set rule

to say that 'good' becomes famous.

 

Jo

 

, " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

wrote:

>

> Hi Peter,

>

> you must think about how this sounds,

> when you say to someone,

>

> " I was writting that stuff at 12 and my friends can write

> better songs than Imagine. "

>

> if, they were, then they better Run, not walk...

> to the nearest record executive, with their demos.

>

> they are sitting on a million dollars

> and we need more songs like Imagine.

>

> by the way, if this guy Tony Clarskin was writing

> beatles albums in his lunch hour..

>

> how come I've never heard of him?

>

>

> , " Peter Kebbell " <metalscarab@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Colin

> >

> > > jealous guy could'n't have been written by an average song

writer

> only by

> > a musical genius

> > > with fantastic depth.

> >

> > Most of Lennon's material is three chord songs. I was writing that

> sort of

> > stuff when I was 12. As someone once said, Tony Clarkin could have

> knocked

> > out a whole Beatles album in his lunch hour...

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

I must take you to task here. As you know I am a heavy metal fan. I

am passionate about the music, but am sensible enough to know that I

would not like most of the people and the things they do.

 

I do not hold any heavy metal musician up as an icon. I will tell

people when a heavy metal musician is talented, or whether I find

his/her music exciting, but adoration is not something I do.

 

Jo

 

, " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

wrote:

>

> hi colin,

>

> I often wonder,

>

> is there a double standard?

> for instance,

> i don't know a lot about heavy metal

> but I know that there must be plenty

> of heavy metal i.e. ozzy osbourn, etc.

>

> who were unfaithful to their wives (hurt the people they love)

> or had problems with heroin.

>

> yet their (heavy metal) fans love them

> just the same.

> listen to their music, and most importantly

> do not judge them.

>

> you know,

> they base their love more on the public persona

> rather focus on personal private life of the musician.

>

> I do not put others people music down,

> That is what makes them happy,

> What is in their heart.

>

> and if that means disagreeing with the group owner,

> the moderators, and his mom, so be it.

> I would hate to be a member of a group

> where

> everybody was always pleasing each other.

> that is boring and a waste of time.

>

>

> , " Colin Sky " <colinsky@> wrote:

> >

> > hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking

john

> and there is enough ammunition to damn the most of us.

> > so i guess some would love to know more about me so they could

then

> carry on about me, eg. i have been unfaithful, have taken drugs....

> and couldn't even play the damned guitar very well.... who needs

> enemies when we have vegans here to judge us?

> >

> > i am not taking part in an argument.

> >

> > john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

> >

> > that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

> >

> > i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say

> something about, but i don't like to get down to that level of

> communication if i can avoid it.

> >

> > what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic

> example of a multi, multi millionaire and a man of rare original

> thought. if u never could see this, that's okay, there is no need to

> convince those that did that they are deluded.

> >

> > stick with conversations about dr who. u are more knowlegeable

about

> him.

> >

> >

> > peace

> >

> > colin

> >

> > -

> > Peter

> >

> > Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:59 PM

> > Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Colin

> >

> > >poppycock.

> >

> > Congratulations on a well reasoned argument there ;-)

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have further to say in answer to this.

 

There are no double standards - what I say about John Lennon I would

also say about any of the heavy metal musicians if I knew their

behaviour to be bad. Obviously I know that Ozzy Osbourne's behaviour

is bad, and would not hold him up as an icon. I would also not make

an icon of a metal musician who appears to behave nicely to his/her

loved ones, other than to say what wonderful music they produce or

what a fantastic voice they have.

 

From musicians I ask only for music.

 

I do judge people on their behaviour no matter what type of music

they perform.

 

People have assumed that I disliked John Lennon's music, which is

rather strange because I was a big fan for a couple of years when

they first appeared - a member of the fan club, buying magazines etc.

as all young teenagers do! I liked their music, but was not naive

enough to expect that their behaviour would be a good example to us

all.

 

As you say, we can all air our opinions here. It could not be

expected that we would all agree all of the time. Sometimes it seems

that people think there is a war when varying points of view are

discussed. There would be no point in having a discussion if it

could not be discussed from all angles - and this group is called

Vegan ~Chat~ where hopefully we would discuss all kinds of matters.

 

Jo

 

, " Anouk Sickler " <zurumato

wrote:

>

> hi colin,

>

> I often wonder,

>

> is there a double standard?

> for instance,

> i don't know a lot about heavy metal

> but I know that there must be plenty

> of heavy metal i.e. ozzy osbourn, etc.

>

> who were unfaithful to their wives (hurt the people they love)

> or had problems with heroin.

>

> yet their (heavy metal) fans love them

> just the same.

> listen to their music, and most importantly

> do not judge them.

>

> you know,

> they base their love more on the public persona

> rather focus on personal private life of the musician.

>

> I do not put others people music down,

> That is what makes them happy,

> What is in their heart.

>

> and if that means disagreeing with the group owner,

> the moderators, and his mom, so be it.

> I would hate to be a member of a group

> where

> everybody was always pleasing each other.

> that is boring and a waste of time.

>

>

> , " Colin Sky " <colinsky@> wrote:

> >

> > hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking

john

> and there is enough ammunition to damn the most of us.

> > so i guess some would love to know more about me so they could

then

> carry on about me, eg. i have been unfaithful, have taken drugs....

> and couldn't even play the damned guitar very well.... who needs

> enemies when we have vegans here to judge us?

> >

> > i am not taking part in an argument.

> >

> > john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

> >

> > that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

> >

> > i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say

> something about, but i don't like to get down to that level of

> communication if i can avoid it.

> >

> > what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic

> example of a multi, multi millionaire and a man of rare original

> thought. if u never could see this, that's okay, there is no need to

> convince those that did that they are deluded.

> >

> > stick with conversations about dr who. u are more knowlegeable

about

> him.

> >

> >

> > peace

> >

> > colin

> >

> > -

> > Peter

> >

> > Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:59 PM

> > Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Colin

> >

> > >poppycock.

> >

> > Congratulations on a well reasoned argument there ;-)

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Colin

 

>hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking john and there is enough

>immunition to damn the most of us.

 

You seem to have completely missed the point. This started because of the " hero worship " of the " perfect " John Lennon, who, according to one post single-handedly stopped the Vietnam war. I don't think that kind of hero worship is healthy for anyone, and was pointing out that, although Lennon did do a few good things, he wasn't the " deity " that some people like to make him out to be.

 

 

>i am not taking part in an argument.

 

I beg to differ - you clearly are!

 

>john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

 

Why, did you not have your own voice?

 

>that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

 

That depends on what we're discussing. If we're talking about how " complicated " the Beatles music was, then it's very relevant. (And actually, I mastered 3 chords at the age of 8, I just didn't start writing music until I was about 12).

 

 

>i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say something about, but i don't

> like to get down to that level of communication if i can avoid it.

 

You've managed to get way down below that level of communication here, by specifically " knocking " me! But then I don't think anyone here has claimed that Dr Who single handedly stopped the Vietnam war... most of us just view it as an entertaining TV programme... much like a lot of people view John Lennon as an entertaining musician. I find it strange that people take such offence to this suggestion...

 

 

>what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic example of a multi, multi

> millionaire and a man of rare original thought. if u never could see this, that's okay, there is

> no need to convince those that did that they are deluded.

 

Y'see, I just don't see a great deal of " rare original thought " . I see a good entertainer who had some nice pacifist ideas, but those ideas were hardly his own - he never even gave it a thought until he went to India and met influential pacifists. Most of us (peace activists) have managed to come to the same conclusions without that same level of influence, so just how does this equate to " original thought " ?

 

 

> peace

 

I love the way you make a swinging personal attack, and then put " peace " . I do think that perhaps you should be more careful with the way you use words - peace has such lovely connotations, and it seems so sad that you dirty it in this way.

 

 

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

>you must think about how this sounds,

>when you say to someone,

> " I was writting that stuff at 12 and my friends can write

>better songs than Imagine. "

>if, they were, then they better Run, not walk...

>to the nearest record executive, with their demos.

 

I'm afraid that the music industry never works on the quality of music - it works on how marketable the band / individual are. To the extent where the majority of songs which get into the charts aren't even written by the performers. Imagine would probably never have been heard by anyone except John's closest friends if he hadn't already been one of the most popular performers in the Western world - that occurred because he and the Beatles found themselves an excellent manager in their early days, who shaped the band into a marketable commodity.

 

 

Personally, I have no desire to become famous, and most of the people who write the songs I know do it as an act of service for their communities - they do not wish to make money from their songs, but wish to share them, and do so by making them " copy-left " .

 

 

>they are sitting on a million dollars>and we need more songs like Imagine.

 

Then just go along to peace activist gatherings, and listen out :-)

 

>by the way, if this guy Tony Clarskin was writing

>beatles albums in his lunch hour..

>how come I've never heard of him?

 

Because the Beatles had a far better manager than Magnum. There are many bands you've probably never heard of, doesn't mean that they aren't any good - it just means that they don't get played on the radio... When I worked in a recording studio I used to record a guy called " Paco " .... every time he released a new album, he'd sell over quarter of a million in the first weekend of release, but because he did it all himself, and wasn't connected to a major record label, he's never been played on the radio, and you've almost certainly never heard of him. A few years back, the new Dream Theater album sold out in the entirity of the UK within 4 hours of release, while the number one album of the week still had hundreds of copies sat in the shelves - yet DT never even got into the top 200... and you've probably never heard of them either.

 

 

Sadly, the music industry doesn't work on what people want to hear, it works on who the music industry can make the most money from, and then these tracks flood the radio stations so that they are all most people get to hear... and what makes most money is people who will do whatever the record companies tell them to do - not people who are politically active, and write protest songs....

 

 

BB

Peter

, " Peter Kebbell " <metalscarabwrote:>> Hi Colin>> > jealous guy could'n't have been written by an average song writer

only by> a musical genius> > with fantastic depth.>> Most of Lennon's material is three chord songs. I was writing thatsort of> stuff when I was 12. As someone once said, Tony Clarkin could have

knocked> out a whole Beatles album in his lunch hour...>> BB> Peter>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anouk

 

>I often wonder,

>is there a double standard?

>for instance,

>i don't know a lot about heavy metal

>but I know that there must be plenty

>of heavy metal i.e. ozzy osbourn, etc.

 

No double standard. I enjoy Ozzy's music, but the guy is a complete bastard (the way he treated Sharon is worse worse than the way Lennon treated Yoko... he actually tried to kill her a couple of times).

 

Where you seem to make the mistake is in thinking that heavy metal fans " worship " people like Ozzy, like some people do with Lennon. Perhaps heavy metal fans are more able to seperate the quality of the music from the qualities of the individuals who are writing it?

 

 

And this is all I'm trying to say.... just beacuase people like Lennon's music, doesn't make him a nice person. It doesn't make him a deity, and he didn't stop the Vietnam war single handed.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha! (That's a real laugh not something sarcastic). Habving assumed

that the Civil War and Revolution would be unambiugous and then having

realised they weren't, I thought we were on other sides of the Atlantic. He

doesn't live in Brighton, too, does he?

 

 

On

Behalf Of earthstrm

09 June 2006 19:48

 

Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

 

Hi Michael,

 

> PPS If you're ever over in the UK, look me up.

 

Well that is perfect, he is! Perhaps you two could meet for coffee sometime

and get it all done at once.

 

Nikki

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Michael

 

>Ha ha ha! (That's a real laugh not something sarcastic). Habving assumed

>that the Civil War and Revolution would be unambiugous and then having

>realised they weren't, I thought we were on other sides of the Atlantic. He

>doesn't live in Brighton, too, does he?

 

Nah - although I do sometimes visit... I particularly like The George :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

I also like the George, though you have to be careful with beers - they don't have the vaguest idea what is vegan and what isn't - most aren't.

 

 

On Behalf Of Peter Kebbell12 June 2006 09:45 Subject: Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

 

Hi Michael

 

>Ha ha ha! (That's a real laugh not something sarcastic). Habving assumed

>that the Civil War and Revolution would be unambiugous and then having

>realised they weren't, I thought we were on other sides of the Atlantic. He

>doesn't live in Brighton, too, does he?

 

Nah - although I do sometimes visit... I particularly like The George :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Michael

 

>I also like the George, though you have to be careful with beers - they don't have the vaguest

> idea what is vegan and what isn't - most aren't.

 

That surprises me, as they seem to understand with the meals... but then I don't drink, so won't be going near the beers anyway :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

Wow! I'm really sad to see this boiling up like this.

 

A couple of people said they admire Lennon. This led to what I assumed (in the US punning sense) were sarcastic put downs along the lines of did he end the Vietnam war singe-handed. I replied sarcastically "Yes... and more". I still can't understand anyone thinking that anyone else in their right mind would say that Lennon ended the Vietnam war and more single-handed! Come on!

 

Someone said Lennon was a feminist and Peter K wrote he found that offensive to him as a radical feminist. I found that offensive myself and in a fine example of double standards (my own) launched a rather stupid one-line put down of holier-than thou so-called feminist men, which I is how I (mis)interpreted Peter.

 

This launched into an up-and-down but serious discussion between me and Peter who for whom I have solid respect as a result.

 

Whatever my own thoughts about the holier-than-thou postings criticising Lennon and presenting a one-side and uncompassionate judgement of his problems with Ono the fact remains that my initial sarcastic replies were disrespectful and antagonistic and I want to apologise not just to those on the list who felt offended by them but also to all those who got drawn into the subsequent exchanges of insults put-downs, takings of sides, disrespect of differences and all that and the hurt which resulted.

 

Whatever our differences about music or people with round glasses, I'd bet that all of us who got wrought up in this are also vegans for reasons of compassion.

 

Let's try and be a bit more compassionate and sensitive about each other, hey? I'm trying to start now.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

On Behalf Of Peter Kebbell12 June 2006 08:46 Subject: Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

 

Hi Colin

 

>hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking john and there is enough

>immunition to damn the most of us.

 

You seem to have completely missed the point. This started because of the "hero worship" of the "perfect" John Lennon, who, according to one post single-handedly stopped the Vietnam war. I don't think that kind of hero worship is healthy for anyone, and was pointing out that, although Lennon did do a few good things, he wasn't the "deity" that some people like to make him out to be.

 

>i am not taking part in an argument.

 

I beg to differ - you clearly are!

 

>john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

 

Why, did you not have your own voice?

 

>that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

 

That depends on what we're discussing. If we're talking about how "complicated" the Beatles music was, then it's very relevant. (And actually, I mastered 3 chords at the age of 8, I just didn't start writing music until I was about 12).

 

>i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say something about, but i don't

> like to get down to that level of communication if i can avoid it.

 

You've managed to get way down below that level of communication here, by specifically "knocking" me! But then I don't think anyone here has claimed that Dr Who single handedly stopped the Vietnam war... most of us just view it as an entertaining TV programme... much like a lot of people view John Lennon as an entertaining musician. I find it strange that people take such offence to this suggestion...

 

>what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic example of a multi, multi

> millionaire and a man of rare original thought. if u never could see this, that's okay, there is

> no need to convince those that did that they are deluded.

 

Y'see, I just don't see a great deal of "rare original thought". I see a good entertainer who had some nice pacifist ideas, but those ideas were hardly his own - he never even gave it a thought until he went to India and met influential pacifists. Most of us (peace activists) have managed to come to the same conclusions without that same level of influence, so just how does this equate to "original thought"?

 

> peace

 

I love the way you make a swinging personal attack, and then put "peace". I do think that perhaps you should be more careful with the way you use words - peace has such lovely connotations, and it seems so sad that you dirty it in this way.

 

Peter

[Guest guest]

Hi Peter

 

I beg to differ - you were 7 when you started playing 3 chord music :-

)

 

I agree with everything else you have said.

 

Jo

 

, " Peter Kebbell " <metalscarab

wrote:

>

> Hi Colin

>

> >hi peter. i have read the argument on this list for disliking

john and

> there is enough

> >immunition to damn the most of us.

>

> You seem to have completely missed the point. This started because

of the

> " hero worship " of the " perfect " John Lennon, who, according to one

post

> single-handedly stopped the Vietnam war. I don't think that kind of

hero

> worship is healthy for anyone, and was pointing out that, although

Lennon

> did do a few good things, he wasn't the " deity " that some people

like to

> make him out to be.

>

> >i am not taking part in an argument.

>

> I beg to differ - you clearly are!

>

> >john was a voice for a lot of us for decades. is a fact.

>

> Why, did you not have your own voice?

>

> >that u mastered three chords at 12 is irrelevant. :-)

>

> That depends on what we're discussing. If we're talking about how

> " complicated " the Beatles music was, then it's very relevant. (And

actually,

> I mastered 3 chords at the age of 8, I just didn't start writing

music until

> I was about 12).

>

> >i don't knock or mention, dr who supporters, which i could say

something

> about, but i don't

> > like to get down to that level of communication if i can avoid it.

>

> You've managed to get way down below that level of communication

here, by

> specifically " knocking " me! But then I don't think anyone here has

claimed

> that Dr Who single handedly stopped the Vietnam war... most of us

just view

> it as an entertaining TV programme... much like a lot of people

view John

> Lennon as an entertaining musician. I find it strange that people

take such

> offence to this suggestion...

>

> >what we say is john was a fantastic human being and a fantastic

example of

> a multi, multi

> > millionaire and a man of rare original thought. if u never could

see this,

> that's okay, there is

> > no need to convince those that did that they are deluded.

>

> Y'see, I just don't see a great deal of " rare original thought " . I

see a

> good entertainer who had some nice pacifist ideas, but those ideas

were

> hardly his own - he never even gave it a thought until he went to

India and

> met influential pacifists. Most of us (peace activists) have

managed to come

> to the same conclusions without that same level of influence, so

just how

> does this equate to " original thought " ?

>

> > peace

>

> I love the way you make a swinging personal attack, and then

put " peace " . I

> do think that perhaps you should be more careful with the way you

use words

> - peace has such lovely connotations, and it seems so sad that you

dirty it

> in this way.

>

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

I don't drink beer so have no idea. Are the ones they serve

vegetarian? It is a vegetarian pub with vegan options, not a vegan

pub.

 

Jo

 

, " Michael Benis " <michaelbenis

wrote:

>

> I also like the George, though you have to be careful with beers -

they

> don't have the vaguest idea what is vegan and what isn't - most

aren't.

>

> _____

>

>

On

> Behalf Of Peter Kebbell

> 12 June 2006 09:45

>

> Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>

>

> Hi Michael

>

> >Ha ha ha! (That's a real laugh not something sarcastic). Habving

assumed

> >that the Civil War and Revolution would be unambiugous and then

having

> >realised they weren't, I thought we were on other sides of the

Atlantic. He

> >doesn't live in Brighton, too, does he?

>

> Nah - although I do sometimes visit... I particularly like The

George :-)

>

> BB

> Peter

>

[Guest guest]

my partner rebecca was....

 

 

>Anouk Sickler <zurumato

>Jun 11, 2006 7:13 PM

>

> Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>

>hi michael,

>

>I'd be curious

>to know how

>many of us were

>vegetarians

>back in the 1970's

>

>certainly it was much harder.

>I am one of the rare ones

>and was born a vegetarian

>in that sense I have never tasted

>meat or fish.

>

>however, I know for sure that it

>was damn hard,

>my mom and I walked for miles

>trying to find a health food store

>when I was a kid.

>

>and when they feed me soya milk

>it tasted gross.

>back then, it tasted nothing like it does

>today.

>

>so who are we to judge someone for not being

>vegetarian in the 1970's?

>

>Vegetarianism/veganism is something that is progressing with people's

>growing awareness everyday.

>any naturally evolving person would reach it, and it's ok to

>stumble.

>

>

>

> , " Michael Benis " <michaelbenis

>wrote:

>>

>> He was never really big on vegetarianism ever and never claimed to be.

>>

>> His most dangerous drug part from heroin was booze and he largely

>stopped

>> it.

>>

>> Learning and changing doesn't mean becoming perfect.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> On

>> Behalf Of jo

>> 08 June 2006 20:45

>>

>> Re: Re: John Lennon, my Inspiration

>>

>> He didn't learn though. He kept going back to drugs - just like he kept

>> having a go at pretending to be vegetarian and deviating from it.

>>

>> Jo

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>