bhaktajan

The timeless wisdom of India is expressed in the ancient Sanskrit Vedas. Originally preserved through oral tradition, the Vedas were first put into writing five thousand years ago by Srila Vyasadeva, “the literary incarnation of God.” After compiling the Vedas, Vyasadeva set forth their essence in the aphorisms known as Vedanta-sutras. From Isopanisad Introdution: But five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali-yuga. He divided the Vedas into four: Rig, Sama, Atharva and Yajur. Then he gave the charge of these Vedas to his different disciples. Then Vyasadeva summarized all Vedic knowledge for scholars and philosophers in what is called the Vedanta-sutra. This is the last word of the Vedas. Vyasadeva was not very satisfied even after compiling many Puranas and Upanisads, and even after writing the Vedanta-sutra. Then his spiritual master, Narada, instructed him, “Explain the Vedanta-sutra.” Vedanta means “ultimate knowledge,” and the ultimate knowledge is Krsna. Krsna says that throughout all the Vedas one has to understand Him: vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham. Krsna says, “I am the compiler of the Vedanta-sutra, and I am the knower of the Vedas.” Therefore the ultimate objective is Krsna. The Vedanta-sutra simply hints at what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth: “The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.” This is a summary, but it is explained in detail in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If everything is emanating from the Absolute Truth, then what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? That is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Absolute Truth must be consciousness. He is self-effulgent (svarat). We develop our consciousness and knowledge by receiving knowledge from others, but for Him it is said that He is self-effulgent. The whole summary of Vedic knowledge is the Vedanta-sutra, and the Vedanta-sutra is explained by the writer himself in Srimad-Bhagavatam. We finally request those who are actually after Vedic knowledge to try to understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita. Srimad-Bhagavatam (Bhagavata Purana) is Vyasadeva’s commentary on his own Vedanta-sutras. After compiling the Bhagavatam, Vyasa imparted it to his son, Sukadeva Gosvami. Sukadeva Gosvami later recited the entire Bhagavatam to Maharaja Pariksit in an assembly of learned saints on the banks of the Ganges at Hastinapura (now Delhi). Maharaja Pariksit was the emperor of the world and was a great rajarsi (saintly king). Having received a curse that he would die within the seven days, he renounced his entire kingdom and retired to the bank of the Ganges River to fast until death and received spiritual enlightenment. The Bhagavatam begins with Emperor Pariksit’s inquiry to Sukadeva: Maharaja Pariksit: “You are the spiritual master of great saints and devotees. I am therefore begging you to show the way of perfection for all persons, and especially for one who is about to die. Please let me know what a man should hear, chant, remember and worship, and what he should not do. Please explain all this to me.” Sukadeva often relates historical episodes and give accounts of lengthy philosophical discussions between such great souls as Narada Muni and Vasudeva. At a later date, the sage Suta Goswami, [who was present at the Ganges River assembly] repeated the Bhagavatam before a gathering of Sages in the forest of Naimisaranya. [These sages, concerned about the spiritual welfare of the people in general, gathered to perform a long, continuous chain of penances to counteract the degrading influence of the oncoming age of Kali.] In response to the sages’ request Suta Gosvami repeated from memory the entire Srimad-Bhagavatam, as spoken by Sukadeva to Pariksit. Also, Suta Goswami sometimes responds directly to questions put by Saunaka Rsi, the spokesman for the sages gathered at Naimisaranya. One therefore simultaneously hears two dialogues: 1) between Maharaja Pariksit and Sukadeva Goswami on the bank of the Ganges, and, 2) between the Suta Goswami and Saunaka Rsi, the spokesman for the sages gathered at Naimisaranya. With this understanding of the history of the Bhagavatam, the reader will easily be able to follow its intermingling of dialogues, and events from various sources. ys.

There is only your voice --there are none other. There is a process called "Positive Self-Talk". You simply don't listen to reason [even when it comes from yourself --you turn a cold shoulder to your better judgement]. We are not the body--"we are spiritsoul" --so intimately and thoroughly knowing this maxim is the goal of a Spiritual life . . . in the meantime: The material Body is made of 8 combined elements: earth + water + fire + air + either and then {drum-roll}, mind + intelligence + False-ego. {gong}. The mind does two things: accepts things as attractive //or// rejects things as un-attractive. The intelligence does the following: Considers the logistics/rationale/probabilities etc., of an outcome. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Professional artists and sportsmen must pre-visualise the outcome of the up-coming engagement before the start of the contest [a student does the same by preparing for an exam]. Inorder to rid a bad habit --you must replace it with a better habit, that would be fully engaging of your time and energies. Discipline means that setting a goal that involves an incentive that has greater value than the 'smoking a cigerette'. The mind is talking to you . . . inorder to overcome a dependency to an inert material product (tobacco) . . . that's encouraging. No? The mind and the Intelligence ideally must be inaccord with eachother. It is lust only for the oral fixation that allows you down time. It is necessary to inflate the nature of the importance of 'why to quit' --and then keep re-inforcing the logic and the degree of importance of why you must quit.

"pre-destiny" is not scientific. Well thought-out "pre-planning" is scientific --which includes surveying and establishing a true foundation upon which to build a real edifice. But remember there are designers who dream and then there are builders who know-how-to-get the thing off-the-ground. If you go to Las Vegas to gamble: And you say, "I have a scientific method of determining the outcome of my 'Black-jack' Cards" [ie: "Card-Counting"] ---I would be lawfully expelled from the Gambling Hall. If, rather, I announced, "It is pre-destined that I win a fortune" the management will compliment you with free amenities --because that is the kind of sucker that is born every day that keeps the Gambling Hall in business. Also, if in the end, one losses all the wealth they arrived with . . . it was their destiny to do so! is that clear? Bhaktajan(?)

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Bravo Theist, This is the final word/final verdict on this topic as explained by a Maha-Bhagavata such as Srila Prabhupada. But, [for adherents of Vedic Brahamanas] Srila Prabhupada did say therein, 'nonsense doubts' . . . The Topic is: "Things that are not very important" along with some sub-points: a] 'nonsense doubts' & b] 'whether a thing(s) is good or bad'. c] 'maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big' --[ie: "The Frog in the Well Mentality", thinking all-the-world of his abode mentality] We are being held back in the pursuit of Freedom, liberty and the pursuit of HAPPINESS ---because we have been soooooooooo beholding to the public-relations-stumbling-block-obstacle-course of modern kali-yuga miscreants ---Who now are all too occupied with more pressing matters, like training-up Farsi translators . . . very dis-encouraging isn't it? Anyway, I digress (as usual) --we do know even how to begin to demonstrate, beyond a reasonanble doubt, how to varify what the scientists claim nor what the Bhagavatam Claims except by doing it ourselves and experiencing ourselves [rather than relying on forth-hand information from authorities with self-interested agendas]. Speaking of which, it would behove me to point out that the letter you so expertly revealed for our edification is dated 7 November, 1972 --the Vietnam War was in still in full swing --the same era as the motto: "Don't trust anyone over 30 years old". IOW, ""Don't trust anyone in the 'establishment' who are propagating the Big Lies". PS: King Puranjana along with all allegorical explanations in the Bhagavatam are EXPLAINED AND DESCRIBED therein as allegorical --not to be confused with Non-allegorical EXPLAINATIONS AN DESCRIPTIONS that no one thinks is an allegory. Also, I do agree with you that there are many things we should avoid discussing in a public venue [ie: religion, politics and who the Wizard of Oz really is, or, as happened to here ---someone had chastised me for explaing the importance of the Holy-Name . . . luckily for me I found a verse by Lord Chaitanya that praised the need to deliver the Holy name at all costs . . .

"Take the essence" and leave the rest. This is 'chinese-menu' style choosing of 'instruction'. or the pathos of a paramahansa. ???, Bhaktajan

theist said, "I am afraid". —this is part and parcel to you being in great denial . . . of your powers of persuasion. ---BUT BHAKTAJAN WONT AGREE WITH THE CROWD!!!

A One (1) Week Plan: 1] You are dehydrated! You must both each drink 4 liters of water each day (drink the water at different times so as to total 4 liters). The water is best when it is spring water and is at a pH of 7 to 8 [add baking pinch of bicarbonate of soda to the water to correct its pH]. Distilled water is good. No carbonated water (unless it is natural spring water). The juice of Boiled vegetables can be consumed unlimitedly. Also, whey from panir making --BUT, the whey is only good for you when it is absolutely "fresh"; which means that the whey has not been in storage--it must be taken at the moment it is seperated from the curds. Also, Almond &/or soy milks that have NOT been sweetened. The enyzmes that you are bereft of include calcium, magneseum, potassium, iodine etc--you may derive these 'in-bulk form' by eating soy or mung or alfalfa or lentle or chickpea (chandahl) in SPROUT form. Eat the beans as sprouts [you must sprout the raw seeds into seedlings and then eat as salad]. 2] You are not eating natural sources of fiber (those vegetables known to be 'high-in-fiber'). 3] You are bereft of basic required enyzmes that are used for the digestion process --fix this by liquifying green leafy veggys into a soup (warm or cold). 4] Eat no meats! Eat no rice! Eat no heated oils. Eat no peanuts [high yeast & molds]. Eat no aged cheese. Eat no sugar(s). Eat no breads. Eat no beans unless pureed. 5] Eat no overcooked vegetables --They may be eaten raw, steamed or lightly boiled. 6] Eat salads, Eat salads, Eat salads, and Eat more salad. PS: If this regimine seems harsh, the congratulations . . . that's what is usually involved in tapasya. Eat no store purchased pre-prepared & packaged food stuffs --eat fresh veggys --puree (liquify) the veggies [this assists easy digestion]. << As of today this post #12 marks 2,002 Views of this topic! >>

Be coherent? I love your anti-establishment schtick backed-up with resolute apathy and self-loathing ---so hip and reflective of our pop-culture! "but it has been shown to be much much . . . " {so says theist's 'material-masters'}. The rest are simply living a life of gigantic anxiety & mass monetary dis-investments & higher taxes for the military & forced labor & electronic border survailance & inflated insurance premiums & security-baggage-check-queues & deflating economies & cheap hooker auditions interupted by advertisements to donate to the schooling of poor mexican farm children . . . ala Vita bellezza . . . or bust . . . Please don't substitute your sadhana for discussions of siddanta, please.

"The Brahma-Samhita was taken out (of obscurity and revealed) by Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu --so we can assure its validity!" Wow-o-Wow-o-Wee!!! Great statement! sarvam shivam as to te! Do ya'll hear this??????????? Come on hurry-up and get with the 'program' and stop being a geek-squad-in-denial. an Iskcon Devotee scout at your service, bhaktajan

So you accept ex-President George *Bush's idea! [*along with all the worlds' leaders and movers and shakers.]

Sri Krishna’s “Aham(s)” from the Bhagavad-gita: Bhagavan uvacha: 7.6—Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution. 7.7—There is no truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread. 7.8—I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable Om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and Ability in man. 7.9—I am the original fragrance of the earth and I am the heat in fire. I am the life of all that lives,and I am the penances of all ascetics. 7.10—Know that I am the original seed of all existences, the intelligence of the intelligent, and the prowess of all powerful men. 7.11—I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles. 7.12—Know that all states of being--be they of goodness, passion or ignorance--are manifested by My energy. I am, in one sense, everything, but I am independent. I am not under the modes of material nature, for they, on the contrary, are within Me. 7.13—Deluded by the three modes [goodness, passion and ignorance], the whole world does not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible. 7.14—This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it. 7.15—Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me. 7.16-17—Four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me--the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute. Of these, the one who is in full knowledge and who is always engaged in pure devotional service is the best. For I am very dear to him, and he is dear to Me. 7.18-19—All these devotees are undoubtedly magnanimous souls, but he who is situated in knowledge of Me I consider to be just like My own self. Being engaged in My transcendental service, he is sure to attain Me, the highest and most perfect goal. After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare. 7.21-22—I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some demigod, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity. Endowed with such a faith, he endeavors to worship a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone. 7.23—Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. 7.24-25—Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme. I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible. 7.26—As the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I know everything that has happened in the past, all that is happening in the present, and all things that are yet to come. I also know all living entities; but Me no one knows. 7.30—Those in full consciousness of Me, who know Me, the Supreme Lord, to be the governing principle of the material manifestation, of the demigods, and of all methods of sacrifice, can understand and know Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even at the time of death. 8.4-5—The physical nature, which is constantly changing, is called adhibhuta [the material manifestation]. The universal form of the Lord, which includes all the demigods, like those of the sun and moon, is called adhidaiva. And I, the Supreme Lord, represented as the Supersoul in the heart of every embodied being, am called adhiyajna [the Lord of sacrifice]. And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body, remembering Me alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt. 9.4—By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them. 9.5—And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My Mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities. I am everywhere. I am not part of this cosmic manifestation. My ‘Self’ is the very source of creation. 9.6-11—Understand that as the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, rests always in the sky, all created beings rest in Me. At the end of the millennium all material manifestations enter into My nature, and at the beginning of another millennium, by My potency, I create them again. The whole cosmic order is under Me. Under My will it is automatically manifested again and again, and under My will it is annihilated at the end. All this work cannot bind Me. I am ever detached from all these material activities, seated as though neutral. This material nature, which is one of My energies, is working under My direction, producing all moving and nonmoving beings. Under its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again. Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be. 9.16—I am the ritual. I am the sacrifice. I am the offering to the ancestors. I am the healing herb. I am the transcendental chant. I am the Butter and the Fire and the Offering. 9.17—I am the father of this universe. I am the mother. I am the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge. I am the purifier and the syllable ‘Om’. I am also the Rg, the Sama and the Yajur Vedas. 9.18—I am the goal. I am the sustainer. I am the master, the witness, the abode, the refuge, and the most dear friend. I am the creation and the annihilation. I am the basis of everything, the resting place and the eternal seed. 9.19—I give heat. I withhold and send forth the rain. I am immor-tality. I am also death personified. Both spirit and matter are in Me. 9.22—Those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental form--to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have. 9.24—I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices.I am equal to all. 9.29—Whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him. 10.2—Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin or opulences, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and sages. 10.4-5—Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, control of the senses, control of the mind, happiness and distress, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy--all these various qualities of living beings are created by Me alone. 10.6—The seven great sages and before them the four other great sages and the Manus [progenitors of mankind] come from Me, born from My mind, and all the living beings populating the various planets descend from them. 10.7—One who is factually convinced of this opulence and Mystic power of Mine engages in unalloyed devotional service; of this there is no doubt. 10.8—I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. 10.9—The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me. 10.10—To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me. 10.11—To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance. 10.19—My opulence is limitless. 10.20—I am the Supersoul seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings. 10.21—Of the Adityas I am Visnu. Of lights I am the radiant sun. Of the Maruts I am Marici. Among the stars I am the moon. 10.22—Of the Vedas I am the Sama Veda. Of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven. Of the senses I am the mind. In living beings I am the living force [consciousness]. 10.23—Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva. Of the Yaksas and Raksasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera]. Of the Vasus I am fire [Agni]. Of mountains I am Meru. 10.24—Of priests know Me to be the chief, Brhaspati. Of generals I am Kartikeya. Of bodies of water I am the ocean. 10.25—Of the great sages I am Bhrgu. Of vibrations I am the transcendental “<st1:place w:st="on">Om</st1:place>”. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa]. Of immovable things I am the <st1:place w:st="on">Himalayas</st1:place>. 10.26—Of all trees I am the banyan tree. Of the sages among the demigods I am Narada. Of the Gandharvas I am Citraratha. Among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila. 10.27—Of horses know Me to be Uccaihsrava, produced during the churning of the ocean for nectar. Of lordly elephants I am Airavata. Among men I am the monarch. 10.28—Of weapons I am the thunderbolt. Among cows I am the surabhi. Of causes for procreation I am Kandarpa, the god of love. Of serpents I am Vasuki. 10.29—Of the many-hooded Nagas I am Ananta. Among the aquatics I am the demigod Varuna. Of departed ancestors I am Aryama. Among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death. 10.30—Among the Daitya demons I am the devoted Prahlada. Among subduers I am time. Among beasts I am the lion. Among birds I am Garuda. 10.31—Of purifiers I am the wind. Of the wielders of weapons I am Rama. Of fishes I am the shark. Of flowing rivers I am the <st1:place w:st="on">Ganges</st1:place>. 10.32—Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self. Among logicians I am the conclusive truth. 10.33—Of letters I am the letter A. Among compound words I am the dual compound. I am also inexhaustible time. Of creators I am Brahma. 10.34—I am all-devouring death. I am the generating principle of all that is yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. 10.35—Of the hymns in the Sama Veda I am the Brhat-sama. Of poetry I am the Gayatri. Of months I am Margasirsa [November-December]. Of seasons I am flower-bearing spring. 10.36—I am also the gambling of cheats. Of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory. I am adventure. I am the strength of the strong. 10.37—Of the descendants of Vrsni I am Vasudeva. Of the Pandavas I am Arjuna. Of the sages I am Vyasa. Among great thinkers I am Usana. 10.38—Among all means of suppressing lawlessness I am punishment. Of those who seek victory I am morality. Of secret things I am silence. Of the wise I am the wisdom. 10.39—I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being--moving or non-moving--that can exist without Me. 10.40—There is no end to My divine manifestations. 10.41—Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor. 10.42—With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe. 11.32—Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds. 12.6-8—I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death. Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt. 14.3-4—The total material substance, called Brahman, is the source of birth, and it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births of all living beings. It should be understood that all species of life are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father. 14.27—I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness. 15.12—The splendor of the sun, which dissipates the darkness of this whole world, comes from Me. And the splendor of the moon and the splendor of fire are also from Me. 15.13—I enter into each planet, and by My energy they stay in orbit. I become the moon and thereby supply the juice of life to all vegetables. 15.14—I am the fire of digestion in the bodies of all living entities, and I join with the air of life, outgoing and incoming, to digest the four kinds of foodstuff. 15.15—I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedanta, and I am the knower of the Vedas. 15.18—I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person. 15.19—Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is the knower of everything. He therefore engages himself in full devotional service to Me, O son of Bharata. 18.19—According to the three different modes of material nature, there are three kinds of knowledge, action and performer of action. Now hear of them from Me. 18.29—O winner of wealth, now please listen as I tell you in detail of the different kinds of understanding and determination, according to the three modes of material nature. 18.63—Thus I have explained to you knowledge still more Confidential. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do. 18.64—I am speaking to you My supreme instruction, the most confidential knowledge of all.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT LINE OF QUESTIONING!!! The "Ways of Karma" are the best subject to explore on these Forums! A man's labor should have a Monetary Standard that is fixed and palpable. A civilisation should have a standard of life that is fixed and palpable. Mass-bad-karma is the concomitant factor of insipid leading the dull & vapid commoner who only seeks the ordination to fornicate under consent of the King. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Do you fellows get brain-freeze? Do you fellows get nervous during exams? Do you fellows get butterflies in your stomach before posting? I ask because it seems that you all 'with-hold' infomation --wheater through distraction or timidity --nonetheless it shows lack of wellwishing skills. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ashtamaguru Keep in mind that, in the material world 'acts/acting/actions' cannot be avoided nor ceased --And, as soon as one is cleansed of past karma, newly fresh is accrued at every (next) step on one's journey in life. FYI: "Karma" means, "acts/acting/actions". "Karma-phalam" means, "karmic-reaction ('fruits of ones actions')". "ugra-Karma" means, "karmic-reaction ('nasty-reactions')". "One's Karma (in coloq. english language)" means, the accrued/expected/calculatable reaction destined to 'come-back-around' and return-in-kind to the perpetrator-of-the-act. ............................................................ 1] How to reduce bad karmas of previous births? --observe ekadasis --avoid others' saliva. --avoid eating of others' cooked foodstuffs. --avoid patronising business establishments where flesh* mongering is done [*or equivilant ugra-karmic acts]. --take initiation from a bonefide Guru. --darshan --ganga baths --tapasya --disconnect from the false ego. --serve sudhus. 2] Is our fate already written due to our karmas? Yes! --and-- No! A school of fish are destined to swim together --a fish can't escape from the surging masses of his/her comrades, because of the limitations set upon it's fish body ~too Bad! So human fate is accomidated (already written) --yet, free will allows all entities to roam & search & explore & personalise theirown pre-planned path (not already written). What is not always *consciously appreciated is [*ie: some school-mates get scholarships to University & others do not]: There are ONLY LIMITED spheres that one will go 'around-in' AND As soon as you've 'accomplished' an act born of yourown 'inspired personal ingenuity' --you accrue new (future) Karma (karmic-reactions/Karma-phalam) 3] If yes lets say we have multiple choices before us-- will fate make us select the choice that is already decided before we are born or we get to select according to our will? We select according to our will! But . . . IRONY sets in here. In the material world, the workings are prompted by desire and then carry forth by agents known as "Hardware (aka, material mechinised machinery)" --this is where IRONY shows its' self. We are fighting with a duality that allows for "2+2 = 22" irregularities. So, yes it is all pre-destined & yes it is not predestined and thus depends on freewill. Remember, living entities have kalpa after kalpa to fulfill their dreams, wishes & master plans --it takes patience and/or indiference to preforming the same act over and over again until a different and more desirable outcome is acheived. remember Scholarships are awarded only to "over-acheivers". 4] If everything is written what is the use of praying to God? Going Back Home, back to Godhead is done ONLY by re-calibrating our desires to act out of ourown volition (Free-will) and then to aim to approach God even if it seems that God is uncaring/pre-occupied/faraway/damning --we must exercise ourown gumption to act for our best longterm interest. Anyway, God (in the form of paramatma) is present in your heart (it's the life-force bit-of-spark that animates your conscious being) --so it is indispensable to familarise your self with God's presense in your Heart region. yourwellwisher, Bhaktajan - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - My lingering question is: "Does a person who loses past 'bad' karma--also lose 'good' karma?"

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic-verses/445387-garbhadhana-samskara-what-prabhupada-said-about-sex.html http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic-verses/453221-putra-dharma-duties-son.html

1] You are not a fool, hindustani. Is that clear? 2] I can learn lessons from fools. Apparently, hindustani, you cannot garner any lessons from a fool, such as I. 3] Intelligence means descerning between what is 'authentic' and what is not 'authentic'. That will be clear asap.

Ahhh, thank you for your most excellent & erudite statement --(I shall remember it & use it for myself): "I do not accept advice on sadhana as a substitute for an explanation on siddhanta." --Raghu post #3 Ahhh, thank you for your most excellent & erudite statement(s) --(I shall remember it & use it for myself): "Srila Prabhupada substituted "demigods" for "gods" because Gaudiya Vaishnavism is not pantheism and the term "gods" has always been associated with pantheism." "It was a very wise semantic device that helps to distinguish The Gaudiya monotheism from the largely polytheism that Hinduism is mainly known for in the western world and even in Asia." "Srila Prabhupada's use of the term "demigod" was a very ingenius adaptation that demonstrates the Gaudiya Vaishnava monotheistim and separates it from the polytheistic Hindusim." "There is only ONE God in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, hence Srila Prabhupada translates "deva" as demigods so as to try and prevent any misunderstanding that there are many gods and not ONE supreme God.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->" --Sonic Yogi post #22

Thank you sant for the two Charts. here's another one:

In my opinion and also as I have received instruction on the same topic: 1] The Vedas are as in-decipherable as the Egyptian & Mayan Hyrogliphics. and 2] For those that consider Vyasa's conclusion different from what the is the bonefide Gaudiya Vaishnava Conception: Ask your self when you are reading your copy of the "Vedas": 'Who is the 3rd person speaker/narrator? Who is wanting/having the intension that these ancient dialogues & pastimes & stories to be recorded in the Vedas? Who was thjere that remembered all the original narrations that are therein re-told & recorded as part of the Vedas? Who is the person in the Vedas that says who is & who is not Godhead?'

***Five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali-yuga. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> He divided the Vedas into four: Rig, Sama, Atharva and Yajur. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Then he gave the charge of these Vedas to his different disciples. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> After compiling the Vedas, Vyasadeva set forth their essence in the aphorisms known as Vedanta-sutras. <o:p></o:p> Vyasadeva summarized all Vedic knowledge for scholars and philosophers in what is called the Vedanta-sutra. This is the last word of the Vedas. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yet . . . later . . . Vyasadeva was not very satisfied even after compiling many Puranas and Upanisads, and even after writing the Vedanta-sutra. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Then his spiritual master, Narada, instructed him, “Explain the Vedanta-sutra.” Vedanta means “ultimate knowledge,” and the ultimate knowledge is Krsna. The Vedanta-sutra simply hints at what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth: <o:p></o:p> “The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.” <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is a summary, but it is explained in detail in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If everything is emanating from the Absolute Truth, then what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? That is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Absolute Truth must be consciousness. He is self-effulgent (svarat). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> We develop our consciousness and knowledge by receiving knowledge from others, but for Him it is said that He is self-effulgent. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The whole summary of Vedic knowledge is the Vedanta-sutra, and the Vedanta-sutra is explained by the writer himself in Srimad-Bhagavatam. <o:p></o:p>

The Gaudiya Vaishnava Conception of Shiva?????????? Well, let me think. Oh I know, Shiva is Lord Brahma's 6th son [after the 4-Kumaras and Narada] . . . and . . . oh yes, this too: The Family Tree of all the personalities of the Veda:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> There is an actual family tree described in approximately 563 Slokas As found in the Bhagavata-purana***. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> These Slokas delineate the family lineages starting with Brahma [including all the Prajapatis, Manus, the Soma & the Surya Dynasties] up until the 11th Century C.E.. Approximately 2,500 names [including wives are listed] <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Avataras and their family lineage is included too—which brings us to the Puranas and before that to the various Vedic Books that re-tell ancient events among the Devas in their youth. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the Bhagavata-purana the family tree Starts with & proceeds as follows:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 1) Brahma's Birth [155 Trillion B.C.] — Brahma's children — Brahma's Daughter-in-law & Son-in-laws — Brahma's grandchildren — Brahma's great-grandchildren <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 2) Brahma's first 50 years of his life have already passed — <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 3) Brahma's awakes afresh at the start of the Present Day (kalpa) — the first Manu (svayambhuva) is born — Kasyapa & his cousins re-populate the Universe (prajapatis)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 4) The first to 6<SUP>th</SUP> Manus born, live and pass. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 5) The 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu is born. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 3) At the end of the 1<SUP>st</SUP> Maha-yuga of the 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu— Mother Revati leaves to seek Husband (and 27 Maha-yuga later arrives to marry Balarama). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 4) We are here now in the 28th Maha-yuga epoch [out of 71] of the present 7<SUP>th</SUP> Manu. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 5) The family tree continues until the 11<SUP>th</SUP> Century CE. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>The reason for various seemingly contradictory statements in the Vedas, </o:p> <o:p>and also, </o:p> <o:p>in seemingly contradictory statements in the Puranas about pastimes of persons mentioned in different puranas etc is:</o:p> <o:p><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The events happened in vastly different epochs and vastly different places —attended by a few most famous personalities and also attended by mutitudes of Sadhus, rishis and celestial near-do-wells —therefore the re-counting of Vedic events of antiquity contain points-of-view from sources that witnessed the same events from different vantage points. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Also, the Demigods are prone to mistakes, bad-manners, momentary lapses of judgment, lust pursuits etc —so eventhough their behavior is exemplary it contains all the variety of Celestial Soap-Operas [novellas] that spring from the Human-condition [Demigod-condition]. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Remember, Daksha, Durvasa and what to speak of Big-Big Asuras who made mistakes when they could have enjoyed the good life into their dotage years. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Why would Indra not recognize the advent of Vishnu's original-form incarnate ['Bala-Krishna-Kana']? Because of supreme conceit. But the Devas are not self-hating soul killers —they live a polished life of opulence with their duties to perform for the good of all sentient beings and also for the maintenance of the physical structure of the cosmos. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Getting oriented, <o:p></o:p> Bhaktajan <o:p></o:p> </o:p>

HEY you! I'm translating for your pompous arse right here: Looks like your translator left the controversial parts out: the word "MUST" [as in 'complusary' as in 'required'] Brahmanas . . . who approached their Gurus with fuel ---??? What is blood, sweat & tears refer to? Money makes the world go round? Or is it fuel that makes to wheel go round and round? This is a real world we live in . . . it requires real world skills . . . yet GOD shows no REAL interest in our world and our problems. ---Hiroshima & Nagasaki & Dresdin & Berlin & London ---all share a common denouminator: Mass workers earning mass-results. Fruitless efforts en-mass? 432,000 Human years [the length of Kali-Yuga] = 1,200 years of the Devas. IOW, 360 Human years = 1 Day of the Devas So . . . by extention: 1 Million-Billion-Trillion Kalpas squared = the time it takes for Krishna to Blink his eye. Keep waiting around --like the 'gentleman' you are. No magic is forthcoming from heaven . . . or any such place. --- but you're arse gives forth fertiliser like there's no tomorrow. You are a fountain head of cheers, no doubt. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - You know that our ancestors have already wrangled with these topics and have passed down the authorised conclusions. Iskcon, among its other bonefide sampradayas has already fulfilled it's mission to transfer the 'DATA' to us devotees --the caravan moves on . . . and the Gypsies stop and set up camps along the route . . .

So-called students of the Vedas are condemned when they are ignorant of the actual purpose of the Vedas on account of their "disobeying the Acaryas; or neglecting the authority of great teachers (Acaryas); or they follow so-called Acaryas who are not in any chain of transcendental succession (parampara/sampradaya) ... One must approach a bona fide spiritual master in order to understand the transcendental message of the Vedas. That is the direction of the Mundaka Upanishad (1.2.12).

"Nothing about a formless Shiva." --????????????????? That is the ONLY thing that the Shivites who have been posting on Audarya have ever said about the THEIR GOAL in Shiva-worship: Impersonal merging into a formless state. The Big "Shiva is Godhead" talker here on Audarya has been Princegoutham [aka, ???] who, when asked, by me: What is the reason for seeking artha, kama, Dharma & moksha? Where is spiritural enjoyment, pastimes & purpose of existance --in your so-called Devotion to Shiva? Where is heaven and why do we seek it? Princegoutham answered thus: My sanathana dharma believes in the concept of Dharma,Artha,<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comkama</st1:place>, Dharma & moksha?<font color=" /><st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place> and moksha.<FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Follow Dharma ---- Earn (money)Artha ----- Fulfill Desires(<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>) ----- attain moksha. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>'Dharma' is eternal. One who follows dharma is protected by dharma( Dharmo rakshati rakshitah). one who does Adharma is bound to perish just like Ravana,kauravas etc. Hence, we believe in eternal dharma. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Artha(money) is one of the purusharthas. one must toil to earn 'artha(money)' . with that 'artha' one must fulfill '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desires). unless one is free from '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desire) one cannot attain moksha. One must earn "artha"(money) and fulfil '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desire) only in 'Dharmic' way. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>'<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desire) is the very basis of existance. one who is free from '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>' can alone get 'moksha'. All the desires are to be fulfilled only in Dharmic way. satisaction can alone put full stop to '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>' but not repetition of work. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Where is spiritural enjoyment, pastimes & purpose of existance --in your so-called Devotion to Shiva? <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Shiva is the 'self' of all beings. The devotees of Shiva who realises their essential nature as Sat-chit-Ananda need not look for any kind of enjoyments. Pastimes are for those who are unable to rise beyond 'time'. but shiva is beyond space and time. He is the creator of both space and time. He is the nondual supreme self. The great yogis regulate their breath, control and still their mind, look inward and enjoy the bliss with their hair standing on edge and eyes filled with tears of joy It looks as though they are immersed in nectar that bliss which they see in their heart and exult thus, is verily Shiva. <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Where is heaven and why do we seek it?<FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana> <FONT color=black><FONT face=Verdana>Heaven,hell,planets..etc are for those who are bewildered by ignorance. The devotees of shiva who realises themselves as 'Atman' are not bounded by hell or heaven. The 'self' is all pervading. Hence, There is neither going nor coming. This unborn Atman is the basis for time,space,heaen,hell,spiritual planets..etc. - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -- - - - </I>

Live on a Liquid fast for 2 weeks. All foods, for 2 weeks, must be veggies that are pureed (turned to pulp) and consummed as a soup. 4 Liters of water per day. The water, ideally, must be correct pH [7 to 8] --therefore, ideally, use distilled water with a teaspoon of baking Soda added. You must avoid acid-producing foods [they use the body's store of alkaline minerals --these alkaline minerals are used to neutralise the acid-states in your blood stream]: All wheat products, aged cheeses, meats, liquors, sugar, heated oils, processed foods & drinks, canned foods, . . . they form yeasts & fermentation within the body. In short: Educate yourself on the principles of "How to maintain the Body's proper pH" ---and then you will be DE-TOXING' the body.