bhaktajan

My recent personal insight --yet to be resolved as correct or not: "Is it logical that our the original earth-bound so-called 'caveman' ancestors of mankind could conceive (intellectually) that there is a God, without being told so?" Do we not take for granted all the ipso-facto revelations from the past --that 'There might be a God [of which we are modeled or distinct from]'? Why is it thought that it is natural for any aboriginal indigenous tribe(s) to conclude that God is a Person. Supernatural experiences alone do not foreshadow the concept of a personal God. The impression that departed souls could linger and cause occurences attributed to ghostly causes --would seem very likely. Anything more is a strech of the probable intelleceural capacity of common hunter/gatherers or farmer. But where would the idea of God the Father, or just, "God the Person" arise? Animistic concepts seemed to jump over this ideal of "God the Person-Godhead. Idol worshipers of Babylonia seemed to jump over this ideal of "God the Person-Godhead. Mundane conditioning only lends itself only to (self-interested) to eat/sleep/mate & defending activities. Why would one rise above the limited & petty & immediate desire-of-the-moment --without being told (from above) via the 'desending' path of knowledge?

As stated in the Näräyaëéya of the Mokña-dharma, in Çré Mahäbhärata, yä vai sädhana-sampattiù puruñärtha-catuñöaye tayä vinä tad äpnoti naro näräyaëäçrayaù “Whatever among the four goals of human life can be achieved by various spiritual practices is automatically achieved without such endeavors by the person who has taken shelter of Lord Näräyaëa, the refuge of all persons.” Thus a Kåñëa conscious person knows that he will obtain all perfection of life simply by surrendering to the devotional service of Lord Kåñëa. This is the highest stage of yoga, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gétä.

Attention Administrator: I is not enlivening to point out something to someone --and then be ridiculed for everything except the points I highlighted --and then the same occurs like clock-work . . . don't you notice the efforts of percision discophony? PS: sambya says "thanks !!"

Hey Folk! I cut and pasted the words of a Grand High Pundit & Supreme gentleman Bhaktivedanta Swami's tranlations from the ancient sanskrit regarding the Glories of Sri Shiva --and this is the "sorely lacking" response I get from . . . a PFL "Pest Finders Ltd" afficinado. Don't forget the thread's topic!

sambya wrote [Post 20]: beutifull . this is precisely what i have been trying to convey to vaishnvas here . im speechless with joy to see an administrator realise this simple truth and advising people accordingly , inspite of his being a vaishnva himself . dandavats to you jahnava ............. you are truly a vaishnav !! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "...some people's hatred for Hinduism while they themselves follow a subset of it. ..." Hmmm . . . so some one posted "something to this effect" before post #19? No I!

Have you been falling short of words lately??? Well instead of learning arabic like the world military stratagists . . . Why don't you [not a rhetorical querie] simply repeat the words of Guru, Sadhu & sastra? ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "there is hardly a isckonite left . . . with their persistent abuses and mud slinging" --Sambya Am I being coaxed to think that sambya is in dispair? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: New Word everyone: Minting lexicon for the new world Ceasers: "ISKCON PESTS" Am I being coaxed to think that American Airline Airport passengers are relieved that there are no longer ISKCON PESTS distributing Bhagavad-Gitas in the Airport terminals?

God is in the details. What I want to point out is --that the things that you must not fail to appreicate or overlook is the "details" or IOW the "standards" that are maintained in its minutia of everyday sadhana/life. Yes, it's OK if the bonefide Guru is from a different matha --but it is the details that you will live with. [i do not recognise ritvik reform people. There are faults to found by all 'building maintanace personel' --but you are probably above that status of worker --seek out the nectar befitting your stature] Also, I agree with JND - focus on your sadhana.

kaisersose, Ganeshprasad, sambya --Stand up and be heard! Be understood! Be a proper representative! Scholarship is predicated on more scholarship. kaisersose provided to data nor answer to by questions! But somehow(?) three more pages of posts appear. "Afficinado" translates from the latin as, "Fan". Where are the answers I asked for? My questions was: "Where are the statistics?" or "What can you show me you learnt and thus from where?" kaisersose responds with check out such and such book --but he is bereft of recalling the most inportant axioms. Either you are a true Afficinado and thus a reliable reference or you're just an iconoclast upstart who's propagating controvercy because you are addicted to chaos. ENLIGHTEN ME AND POSTERS AND READERS OF THE WORLD!!! Answer the queries: [Oh, I guess you expect me to approach you in submission first?] Where, in sastra, has Lord Shiva explained the topics: jiva, parkriti, karma, isvara, kala (time), the differences between the yogic schools of thought, basic sitting silent meditation, dharma, moksha, sat-sanga, good vs passionate vs bad foods/actions/austerities/fearlessness/equanimity/faith/ sacrifice/charity/renunciation/knowledge/performers/(doers of actions)/understanding/determination/happiness? Please remember not to quote anyone except your Dear Bhagavan's melodious words. ....is is a challenge to scharlorly thinkers & researchers --not otherwise . . . >

Oh great, we have two Shiva Afficinados on board here! Sriman Sambya & Sriman Ganeshprasad please provide the assembly of vaishnavas [or just direct your erudition solely at me] the answers to these questions: Where, in sastra, has Lord Shiva explained the topics: jiva, parkriti, karma, isvara, kala (time), the differences between the yogic schools of thought, basic sitting silent meditation, dharma, moksha, sat-sanga, good vs passionate vs bad foods/actions/austerities/fearlessness/equanimity/faith/ sacrifice/charity/renunciation/knowledge/performers/(doers of actions)/understanding/determination/happiness? Please remember not to quote anyone except your Dear Bhagavan's melodious words.

It was the joining of the raghu & the Soma dynasties: Dasaratha's Children are listed along with Mother Santa in the Bhagavata-Purana

It was the joining of the raghu & the Soma dynasties: Mother Santa is listed in the parampara in the Bhagavata-Purana 9.23.10

Sonic yogic has put it nicely: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1143226&postcount=64 Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.7.33 TRANSLATION Exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Umā, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your activities. PURPORT Lord Śiva is the topmost Vaiṣṇava (vaiṣṇavānāḿ yathā śambhuḥ). It is therefore said, vaiṣṇavera kriyā-mudrā vijñe nā bujhaya. Even the most intelligent person cannot understand what a Vaiṣṇava like Lord Śiva is doing or how he is acting. Those who are conquered by lusty desires and anger cannot estimate the glories of Lord Śiva, whose position is always transcendental. In all the activities associated with lusty desires, Lord Śiva is an implement of ātma-rāma. Ordinary persons, therefore, should not try to understand Lord Śiva and his activities. One who tries to criticize the activities of Lord Śiva is shameless. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1143247&postcount=74 Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.12.39 TRANSLATION My dear Lord Śambhu, who within this material world but you can surpass My illusory energy? People are generally attached to sense enjoyment and conquered by its influence. Indeed, the influence of material nature is very difficult for them to surmount. PURPORT Of the three chief demigods — Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara — all but Viṣṇu are under the influence of māyā. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta, they are described as māyī, which means "under māyā's influence." But even though Lord Śiva associates with māyā, he is not influenced. The living entities are affected by māyā, but although Lord Śiva apparently associates with māyā, he is not affected. In other words, all living entities within this material world except for Lord Śiva are swayed by māyā. Lord Śiva is therefore neither viṣṇu-tattva nor jīva-tattva. He is between the two. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1143863&postcount=89 That Siva is a devotee of Krishna is not a mystery. Even Lord Vishnu is a devotee of Krishna. Even Lord Balarama, the first expansion of Krishna is a devotee of Krishna. Krishna is God, all others, even Balarama, Vishnu and Siva are devotees of the Supreme Krsna. There is ONE God - Krsna. Everyone, even Balarama, Vishnu and Siva are his servants. That is the Gaudiya siddhanta. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1143949&postcount=100 Madhya 20.273 purport: Quote: The word svāńga-viśeṣābhāsa-rūpe, indicating the form by which the Lord begets living entities in the material world, is explained herein. He is Lord Śiva. In the Brahma-saḿhitā it is stated that Lord Śiva, who is another form of Mahā-Viṣṇu, is like yogurt. Yogurt is nothing but milk, yet it is not milk. Similarly, Lord Śiva is considered the father of this universe, and material nature is considered the mother. The father and mother are known as Lord Śiva and goddess Durgā. Together, Lord Śiva's genitals and the vagina of goddess Durgā are worshiped as the śiva-lińga. This is the origin of the material creation. Thus Lord Śiva's position is between that of the living entity and that of the Supreme Lord. In other words, Lord Śiva is neither the Supreme Personality of Godhead nor a living entity. He is the form through which the Supreme Lord works to beget living entities within this material world. As yogurt is prepared when milk is mixed with a culture, the form of Lord Śiva expands when the Supreme Personality of Godhead is in touch with material nature. The impregnation of material nature by the father, Lord Śiva, is wonderful because at one time innumerable living entities are conceived. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1143982&postcount=104 Srila Sridhar Maharaja has said that Siva-tattva is beyond our understanding. Siva-tattva is very mysterious, but I like Srila Prabhupada's version that Siva is simultaneously Vishnu and jiva and that is why Siva-tattva is so difficult to grasp. Siva doesn't fit into Vishnu-tattva or jiva tattva. He is simultaneously God and jiva. That is something that is hard to get your mind around, unless and until you understand the concept of shaktyavesha avatar and how Vishnu can enter into a jiva and give that jiva Godly powers. Nothing is impossible for Vishnu. If Vishnu wants to make a jiva into Vishnu-tattva, he can certainly do so. He can also make a jiva into a combination of jiva and Vishnu-tattva as is the case with Lord Siva. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But . . . this is my concern for the shivite loving aspirant; Where, in sastra, has Lord Shiva explained the topics: jiva, parkriti, karma, isvara, kala (time), the differences between the yogic schools of thought, basic sitting silent meditation, dharma, moksha, sat-sanga, good vs passionate vs bad foods/actions/austerities/fearlessness/equanimity/faith/ sacrifice/charity/renunciation/knowledge/performers/(doers of actions)/understanding/determination/happiness/ and also, milk sweet making at it most sublime best? Maybe Shiva has read Bhagavad-gita? Maybe you'd get the chance one day to read Bhagavad-gita to Lord Shiva? Is there something better to read to Lord Shiva? Uddhava-Gita?

1] The Swami's insights are great and this should be circulated to one's friends. 2] Please do not disturb the mind of the ignoring one [Mr K] ---he is preparing for special exams --and apparently he is excelling in his chosen field of maha-pest-alot-tattva.

SB 3.12.5 Brahmä spoke to his sons after generating them. “My dear sons,” he said, “now generate progeny.” But due to their being attached to Väsudeva, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they aimed at liberation, and therefore they expressed their unwillingness. PURPORT The four sons of Brahmä, the Kumäras, declined to become family men even on the request of their great father, Brahmä. Those who are serious about gaining release from material bondage should not be entangled in the false relationship of family bondage. People may ask how the Kumäras could refuse the orders of Brahmä, who was their father and above all the creator of the universe. The reply is that one who is väsudeva-paräyaëa, or seriously engaged in the devotional service of the Personality of Godhead, Väsudeva, need not care for any other obligation. It is enjoined in the Bhägavatam (11.5.41): “Anyone who has completely given up all worldly relationships and has taken absolute shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord, who gives us salvation and who alone is fit to be taken shelter of, is no longer a debtor or servant of anyone, including the demigods, forefathers, sages, other living entities, relatives, and members of human society.” Thus there was nothing wrong in the acts of the Kumäras when they refused their great father’s request that they become family men. SB 3.12.6 On the refusal of the sons to obey the order of their father, there was much anger generated in the mind of Brahmä, which he tried to control and not express. PURPORT Brahmä is the director in charge of the mode of passion of material nature. Therefore it was natural for him to become angry on the refusal of his sons to obey his order. Although the Kumäras were right in such acts of refusal, Brahmä, being absorbed in the mode of passion, could not check his passionate anger. He did not express it, however, because he knew that his sons were far enlightened in spiritual advancement and thus he should not express his anger before them. SB 3.12.7 Although he tried to curb his anger, it came out from between his eyebrows, and a child mixed blue and red was immediately generated. PURPORT The face of anger is the same whether exhibited due to ignorance or knowledge. Although Brahmä tried to curb his anger, he could not do so, even though he is the supreme being. Such anger in its true color came from between the eyebrows of Brahmä as Rudra, in a mixed color of blue (ignorance) and red (passion), because anger is the product of passion and ignorance. SB 3.12.8 After his birth he began to cry: O destiny maker, teacher of the universe, kindly designate my name and place. SB 3.12.9 The all-powerful Brahmä, who was born from the lotus flower, pacified the boy with gentle words, accepting his request, and said: Do not cry. I shall certainly do as you desire. SB 3.12.10 Thereafter Brahmä said: O chief of the demigods, you shall be called by the name Rudra by all people because you have so anxiously cried. SB 3.12.11 My dear boy, I have already selected the following places for your residence: the heart, the senses, the air of life, the sky, the air, the fire, the water, the earth, the sun, the moon and austerity. PURPORT The creation of Rudra from between the eyebrows of Brahmä as the result of his anger, generated from the mode of passion partly touched by ignorance, is very significant. In Bhagavad-gétä (3.37) the principle of Rudra is described. Krodha (anger) is the product of käma (lust), which is the result of the mode of passion. When lust and hankering are unsatisfied, the element of krodha appears, which is the formidable enemy of the conditioned soul. This most sinful and inimical passion is represented as ahaìkära, or the false egocentric attitude of thinking oneself to be all in all. Such an egocentric attitude on the part of the conditioned soul, who is completely under the control of material nature, is described in Bhagavad-gétä as foolish. The egocentric attitude is a manifestation of the Rudra principle in the heart, wherein krodha (anger) is generated. This anger develops in the heart and is further manifested through various senses, like the eyes, hands and legs. When a man is angry he expresses such anger with red-hot eyes and sometimes makes a display of clenching his fists or kicking his legs. This exhibition of the Rudra principle is the proof of Rudra’s presence in such places. When a man is angry he breathes very rapidly, and thus Rudra is represented in the air of life, or in the activities of breathing. When the sky is overcast with dense clouds and roars in anger, and when the wind blows very fiercely, the Rudra principle is manifested, and so also when the sea water is infuriated by the wind it appears in a gloomy feature of Rudra, which is very fearful to the common man. When fire is ablaze we can also experience the presence of Rudra, and when there is an inundation over the earth we can understand that this is also the representation of Rudra. There are many earthly creatures who constantly represent the Rudra element. The snake, tiger and lion are always representations of Rudra. Sometimes, because of the extreme heat of the sun, there are cases of heatstroke, and due to the extreme coldness created by the moon there are cases of collapse. There are many sages empowered with the influence of austerity and many yogés, philosophers and renouncers who sometimes exhibit their acquired power under the influence of the Rudra principle of anger and passion. The great yogé Durväsä, under the influence of this Rudra principle, picked a quarrel with Mahäräja Ambaréña, and a brähmaëa boy exhibited the Rudra principle by cursing the great King Parékñit. When the Rudra principle is exhibited by persons who are not engaged in the devotional service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the angry person falls down from the peak of his improved position. This is confirmed as follows: The most lamentable falldown of the impersonalist is due to his false and unreasonable claim of being one with the Supreme. (Bhäg. 10.2.32) SB 3.12.12 Lord Brahmä said: My dear boy Rudra, you have eleven other names: Manyu, Manu, Mahinasa, Mahän, Çiva, Åtadhvaja, Ugraretä, Bhava, Käla, Vämadeva and Dhåtavrata. SB 3.12.13 O Rudra, you also have eleven wives, called the Rudräëés, and they are as follows: Dhé, Dhåti, Rasalä, Umä, Niyut, Sarpi, Ilä, Ambikä, Irävaté, Svadhä and Dékñä. SB 3.12.14 My dear boy, you may now accept all the names and places designated for you and your different wives, and since you are now one of the masters of the living entities, you may increase the population on a large scale. PURPORT Brahmä, as the father of Rudra, selected the wives of his son, his living places, and his names as well. It is natural that one should accept the wife selected by one’s father, just as a son accepts the name given by the father or as he accepts the property offered by the father. That is the general course in increasing the population of the world. On the other hand, the Kumäras did not accept the offering of their father because they were elevated far beyond the business of generating a great number of sons. As the son can refuse the order of the father for higher purposes, so the father can refuse to maintain his sons in increasing population because of higher purposes. SB 3.12.15 The most powerful Rudra, whose bodily color was blue mixed with red, created many offspring exactly resembling him in features, strength and furious nature. SB 3.12.16 The sons and grandsons generated by Rudra were unlimited in number, and when they assembled together they attempted to devour the entire universe. When Brahmä, the father of the living entities, saw this, he became afraid of the situation. PURPORT The generations of Rudra, the incarnation of anger, were so dangerous to the maintenance of universal affairs that even Brahmä, the father of the living entities, became afraid of them. The so-called devotees or followers of Rudra are also a menace. They are sometimes dangerous even to Rudra himself. Descendants of Rudra sometimes make plans to kill Rudra—by the grace of Rudra. That is the nature of his devotees. SB 3.12.17 Brahmä told Rudra: O best among the demigods, there is no need for you to generate living entities of this nature. They have begun to devastate everything on all sides with the fiery flames from their eyes, and they have even attacked me. SB 3.12.18 My dear son, you had better situate yourself in penance, which is auspicious for all living entities and which will bring all benediction upon you. By penance only shall you be able to create the universe as it was before. PURPORT In the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the cosmic manifestation, the three deities Brahmä, Viñëu and Maheçvara, or Çiva, are respectively in charge. Rudra was advised not to destroy while the period of creation and maintenance was going on, but to situate himself in penance and wait for the time of dissolution, when his services would be called for. SB 3.12.19 By penance only can one even approach the Personality of Godhead, who is within the heart of every living entity and at the same time beyond the reach of all senses. PURPORT Rudra was advised by Brahmä to perform penance as an example to his sons and followers that penance is necessary for attaining the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In Bhagavad-gétä it is said that the common mass of people follow the path shown by an authority. Thus Brahmä, disgusted with the Rudra generations and afraid of being devoured by the increase of population, asked Rudra to stop producing such an unwanted generation and take to penance for attaining the favor of the Supreme Lord. We find, therefore, in pictures, that Rudra is always sitting in meditation for the attainment of the favor of the Lord. Indirectly, the sons and followers of Rudra are advised to stop the business of annihilation, following the Rudra principle while the peaceful creation of Brahmä is going on. SB 3.12.20 Çré Maitreya said: Thus Rudra, having been ordered by Brahmä, circumambulated his father, the master of the Vedas. Addressing him with words of assent, he entered the forest to perform austere penances. SB 3.12.21 Brahmä, who was empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, thought of generating living entities and begot ten sons for the extension of the generations. SB 3.12.22 Maréci, Atri, Aìgirä, Pulastya, Pulaha, Kratu, Bhågu, Vasiñöha, Dakña, and the tenth son, Närada, were thus born. PURPORT The whole process of the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the cosmic manifestation is meant to give the conditioned souls a chance to go back home, back to Godhead. Brahmä created Rudra to help him in his creative endeavor, but from the very beginning Rudra began to devour the whole creation, and thus he had to be stopped from such devastating activities. Brahmä therefore created another set of good children, who were mostly in favor of worldly fruitive activities. He knew very well, however, that without devotional service to the Lord there is hardly any benefit for the conditioned souls, and therefore he at last created his worthy son Närada, who is the supreme spiritual master of all transcendentalists. Without devotional service to the Lord one cannot make progress in any department of activity, although the path of devotional service is always independent of anything material. Only the transcendental loving service of the Lord can deliver the real goal of life, and thus the service rendered by Çréman Närada Muni is the highest among all the sons of Brahmä.

Well I'd like to add my 2 pence into this: "Which Einstein Quote? Which books? I don't see it anywhere, at least in the English books." Your Iskcon devotee, Bhaktajan PS: Maybe you are actually mistaken about which Physicist who worked on the atomic Bomb? maybe you meant Robert Oppenhiemer --who indeed, quoted the Gita, on video --this is famously known. PS: "supposed Einstein-quote???" ---WHAT THE FREAKING HELL ARE YOU OTHER GUYS PRATTLING ON ABOUT IN YOUR 'SUPPOSED NOBLE PILE OF POSTINGS? PS: Thee 'Dravida das' ??? PS: "supposed Elvis Presley-quote???" Is there any source for this supposed quote from him? Oh yeah, and what about the "supposed Elvis Presley is still alive and living in a Hare Krishna Ashram in Tennessee rumor" ???

Cool! thank you. You have called my attention to my quick effort at "wit & profundity" . . . and now I'm answering for it: My sentence: It is lust only for the oral fixation that allows you down time. was referencing four seperate items. "It is lust only" --Krishna's pronouncement: "It is lust only . . . the source of all sin". "the oral fixation" --the classic Western Clinical term of Freudian Psychology [ . . . from childhood conditioning . . . ]. "that allows" --your own personal rationale ["Self-Talk"] that allows you to assert your individuality,"You're not the boss of me syndrome". or also, in an 'in-side-out' reversal, it's the same as described but expressed, "I do not need to do anything I don't want to do!" "down time." --this valuable priceless time is a reminder of time-management skills --this time is yours -- to capitalise on . . . tbd. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: So, bhayya, I was simply trying to tactfully scould you in flowery words --that as you can see, in my mind had several references.

The way I see it is: Since we are in a world of duality, there is "free-will" and there is "kamic reaction" both. Karma to me is how molecules bounce off eachother and similarly how vibrations bounce off each other, and/or how they transmute each other's paths. One is born [or one finds oneself in a given situation] with facility do acquire/accomplish something IMO, destiny [or "pre-destiny"] may be pre-destined BUT . . . it simply does not exist in any real way in any real place nor is it even recorded anywhere [vs the book of life that records ones actions as --read by Yamaraja--but that is in retrospect/after the fact/a post-review] --so, destiny is when past karma comes-back [good or bad] when circumstances allow for it to be manifest. It is like audio "echos" are destined to be heard when the enviroment is just right. It would seem that the law of Karma is unleashed only when IT has a path with least resistance to accomidate it. Karma (Karmic-retribution) seems to like to catch multi-birds with one stone when the birds that are due a stone in the head are clustered together --otherwise Karma (Karmic-retribution) is never in a rush. Karma is the flux of an ocean composed of bubbles that envelopes us and whose ripples [especially the vibrations that one causes oneself] bounce & rebound back off of ourselves eventually --but that occurs when all the factors (usual suspects) are in alignment.

raghu: This is meaningless bunk. The problem is that you cannot or will not commit to any position about his identity. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "Srila Prabhupada substituted "demigods" for "gods" because Gaudiya Vaishnavism is not pantheism and the term "gods" has always been associated with pantheism." "It was a very wise semantic device that helps to distinguish The Gaudiya monotheism from the largely polytheism that Hinduism is mainly known for in the western world and even in Asia." "Srila Prabhupada's use of the term "demigod" was a very ingenius adaptation that demonstrates the Gaudiya Vaishnava monotheistim and separates it from the polytheistic Hindusim." "There is only ONE God in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, hence Srila Prabhupada translates "deva" as demigods so as to try and prevent any misunderstanding that there are many gods and not ONE supreme God." --Sonic Yogi

Quote: But if Shiva is truly non-different from Vishnu as per your view, then you should have no problem with someone worshipping Shiva for liberation, thinking Shiva to be the "Supreme Personality of Godhead." I dont have a problem With people worshipping shiva for liberation. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: I am a Vaishnava [or at least a servant of scores of them] and I know Shiva to be the Highest Vaishnava ---WHAT LIBERATION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Void!?? WHAT LIBERATION TO SHIVITES TALK ABOUT? HOW MANY TYPES OF LIBERATION IS THERE? ---[other than the one I know of]

Rest assured if there is a person out there with a flatulence problem ---we'll have a person working on it. Sound the flatulence alarm and get the flatulence-moblie! Now!

The history of the Vedas, from the Sri Isopanisad Introduction: About five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali-yuga. He divided the Vedas into four: Rig, Sama, Atharva and Yajur. Then he gave the charge of these Vedas to his different disciples. Then Vyasadeva summarized all Vedic knowledge for scholars and philosophers in what is called the Vedanta-sutra. This is the last word of the Vedas. Vyasadeva was not very satisfied even after compiling many Puranas and Upanisads, and even after writing the Vedanta-sutra. Then his spiritual master, Narada, instructed him, “Explain the Vedanta-sutra.” Vedanta means “ultimate knowledge,” and the ultimate knowledge is Krsna. Krsna says that throughout all the Vedas one has to understand Him: vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham. Krsna says, “I am the compiler of the Vedanta-sutra, and I am the knower of the Vedas.” Therefore the ultimate objective is Krsna. The Vedanta-sutra simply hints at what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth: “The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.” This is a summary, but it is explained in detail in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If everything is emanating from the Absolute Truth, then what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? That is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Absolute Truth must be consciousness. He is self-effulgent (svarat). We develop our consciousness and knowledge by receiving knowledge from others, but for Him it is said that He is self-effulgent. The whole summary of Vedic knowledge is the Vedanta-sutra, and the Vedanta-sutra is explained by the writer himself in Srimad-Bhagavatam. We finally request those who are actually after Vedic knowledge to try to understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita. --excepted from the book, "Sri Isopanisad" [aka, 'Isha-Upanisad'] as translated with commentary by Bhaktivedanta Swami.

Sripada Sankaracarya, being very eager to establish his philosophy of monism, took shelter of the Vedanta philosophy and tried to explain it in his own way. The fact is, however, that if one accepts the existence of God, one certainly cannot establish the theory of monism. For this reason Sankaracarya refuted all kinds of Vedic literature that establishes the supremacy of the Personality of Godhead. In various ways, Sankaracarya has tried to refute the Vedic literature. Throughout the world, ninety-nine percent of the philosophers following in the footsteps of Sankaracarya refuse to accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Instead they try to establish their own opinions. It is typical of mundane philosophers to want to establish their own opinions and refute those of others. Therefore: (1) The Mimamsaka philosophers, following the principles of Jaimini, stress fruitive activity and say that if there is a God, He must be under the laws of fruitive activity. In other words, if one performs his duties very nicely in the material world, God is obliged to give one the desired result. According to these philosophers, there is no need to become a devotee of God. If one strictly follows moral principles, one will be recognized by the Lord, who will give the desired reward. Such philosophers do not accept the Vedic principle of bhakti-yoga. Instead, they give stress to following one’s prescribed duty. (2) Atheistic Sankhya philosophers like Kapila analyze the material elements very scrutinizingly and thereby come to the conclusion that material nature is the cause of everything. They do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the cause of all causes. (3) Nyaya philosophers like Gautama and Kanada have accepted a combination of atoms as the original cause of the creation. (4) Mayavadi philosophers say that everything is an illusion. Headed by philosophers like Astavakra, they stress the impersonal Brahman effulgence as the cause of everything. (5) Philosophers following the precepts of Patanjali practice raja-yoga. They imagine a form of the Absolute Truth within many forms. That is their process of self-realization. All five of these philosophies completely reject the predominance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and strive to establish their own philosophical theories. However, Srila Vyasadeva wrote the Vedanta-sutra and, taking the essence of all Vedic literature, established the supremacy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. All five kinds of philosophers mentioned above understand that impersonal Brahman is without material qualities, and they believe that when the Personality of Godhead appears, He is contaminated and covered by the material qualities. The technical term used is saguna. They speak of saguna Brahman and nirguna Brahman. For them, nirguna Brahman means “the impersonal Absolute Truth without any material qualities” and saguna Brahman means “the Absolute Truth that accepts the contamination of material qualities.” More or less, this kind of philosophical speculation is called Mayavada philosophy. The fact is, however, that the Absolute Truth never has anything to do with material qualities because He is transcendental. He is always complete with full spiritual qualities. The five philosophers mentioned above do not accept Lord Visnu as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but they are very busy refuting the philosophies of other schools. There are six kinds of philosophical processes in India. Because Vyasadeva is the Vedic authority, he is known as Vedavyasa. His philosophical explanation of the Vedanta-sutra is accepted by the devotees. As Krsna confirms in the Bhagavad-gita

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! TLC 19: . . . According to Mayavadi philosophers, Vedanta refers to the Sariraka commentary of Sankaracarya. When impersonal philosophers refer to Vedanta and the Upanisads, they are actually referring to the commentaries of Sankaracarya, the greatest teacher of Mayavadi philosophy. After Sankaracarya came Sadananda-yogi, who claimed that the Vedanta and Upanisads should be understood through the commentaries of Sankaracarya. Factually, this is not so. There are many commentaries on Vedanta and the Upanisads made by the Vaisnava acaryas, and these are preferred to those of Sankaracarya. However, the Mayavadi philosophers influenced by Sankaracarya do not attribute any importance to the Vaisnava understandings. There are four different sects of Vaisnava acaryas—the Suddhadvaita, ViSistadvaita, Dvaitadvaita and Acintya-bhedabheda. All the Vaisnava acaryas in these schools have written commentaries on the Vedanta-sutra, but the Mayavadi philosophers do not recognize them. The Mayavadis distinguish between Krsna and Krsna’s body, and therefore they do not recognize the worship of Krsna by the Vaisnava philosophers. Thus when the Mayavadi sannyasis asked Lord Caitanya why He did not study the Vedanta-sutra, the Lord replied, “Dear sirs, you have asked why I do not study Vedanta, and in answer to this I would speak something, but I am afraid that you would be sorry to hear it.” “We shall be very much pleased to hear You,” all the sannyasis replied. “You appear just like Narayana, and Your speeches are so nice that we are taking great pleasure in them. We are very much obliged to see and hear You. Therefore we shall be very glad to hear patiently and accept whatever You say.” The Lord then began to speak on Vedanta philosophy as follows: Vedanta-sutra is spoken by the Supreme Lord Himself. The Supreme Lord, in His incarnation as Vyasadeva, has compiled this great philosophical treatise. Since Vyasadeva is an incarnation of the Supreme Lord, he cannot be likened to an ordinary person, who has the four defects which arise due to contact with material existence. The defects of a conditioned soul are: (1) he must commit mistakes; (2) he must be illusioned; (3) he must possess the tendency to cheat others; and (4) all his senses must be imperfect. We must understand that the incarnation of God is transcendental to all these defects. Thus whatever has been spoken and written by Vyasadeva is considered to be perfect. The Upanisads and Vedanta-sutra aim at the same goal: the Supreme Absolute Truth. When we accept the import of Vedanta-sutra and the Upanisads directly as they are stated, we become glorified. The commentaries made by Sankaracarya, however, are indirect and are very dangerous for the common man to read, for by understanding the import of the Upanisads in such an indirect, disruptive way, one practically bars himself from spiritual realization. When PrakaSananda Sarasvati saw this, he also admitted the fault of Sankaracarya and said, “Because Sankaracarya wanted to establish the doctrine of monism, he had no alternative but to interpret the Vedanta-sutra in a different way. Once one accepts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the doctrine of monism cannot be established. Therefore by mundane scholarship Sankaracarya has tried to obscure the actual meaning of the Vedanta-sutra. Not only has Sankaracarya done this, but all authors who attempt to give their own views of necessity misinterpret Vedanta-sutra.” Thus Lord Caitanya gave the direct meaning of Vedanta-sutra. No Vedic scripture should be used for indirect speculation. In addition to Sankaracarya, other materialistic philosophers like Kapila, Gautama, Astavakra and Patanjali have put forward philosophical speculation in various ways. Indeed, the philosopher Jaimini and his followers, who are all more or less logicians, have abandoned the real meaning of the Vedas (devotional service) and have tried to establish the Absolute Truth as subject to the material world. It is their opinion that if there is a God, He will be pleased with man and give man all desired results if man simply performs his material activities nicely. Similarly, the atheist Kapila tried to establish that there is no God who created the material world. Kapila has even tried to establish that a combination of material elements caused creation. Similarly, Gautama and Kanada have given stress to this theory that the creation resulted from a fortunate combination of material elements, and they have tried to establish that atomic energy is the origin of creation. Similarly, impersonalists and monists like Astavakra have tried to establish the impersonal effulgence (brahmajyoti) as the Supreme. And Patanjali, one of the greatest authorities on the yoga system, has tried to conceive an imaginary form of the Supreme Lord. In summary it should be understood that all these materialistic philosophers have tried to avoid the Supreme Personality of Godhead by putting forward their own mentally concocted philosophies. However, Vyasadeva, the great sage and incarnation of God head, has thoroughly studied all these philosophical speculations and in answer has compiled the Vedanta-sutra, which establishes the relationship between the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the importance of devotional service in ultimately achieving love of Godhead. The verse janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1], which appears in the very beginning of Vedanta-sutra, is explained in Vyasadeva’s Srimad-Bhagavatam. In Srimad-Bhagavatam Vyasadeva establishes from the very beginning that the supreme source of everything is a cognizant, transcendental person.

http://www.floridavediccollege.edu/library.htm

Does anyone know If this book is available in print or even Web PDF?: "Readings in Vedic Literature" A book by Satsvarupa das Goswami --pub. cir. 1977? This book is the best I ever read that provided an overviewed of the Vedas entoto. Hey!Hey!Hey! Hey! I found it!: http://www.floridavediccollege.edu/Readings_in_Vedic_Literature_Book.htm