bhaktajan

A primary Lesson: Food cooked by miscreants [or more polite & Gentile Version of the same] transfers Karma to it's receipient. <!-- / message -->

A primary Lesson: Saliva transfers Karma to it's receipient.

hindustani SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dik! But I say that with the special affection that you alone appreciate so fondly. [Look it up!] ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: So, I should speak what I learned in the Hood? What I learned from Television? What I learned from Leroy? What I learned from Bob? What I learned from interpreting my dreams or tea leaves or DNA? I speak the same words as the Sages of yore! I am sure of that as a Fact! I have been practicing it for a long time.

Nobody gives up Krishna Conscoiusness They just, temporarily, run off toward some sense-gradification --and then forget to revive & return to their personal discipline(s) . . . yet, after some eons of time they indeed revive their long neglected yoga path . . . but that does not ever gaurantee moksha. Only service to Vaishnavas and thus with their blessings we each mutally acquire the conconmitant reward. Once one has taken 1st Class Prashadam from a ISKCON MEMBER or HARE KRISHNA or RADHA-KRISHNA TEMPLE --that person is a great [secret] offender to deny him or herself another chance to 'HONOR' Prashadam. Once the taste of Prashadam is acknowledged --it is a false accusation that a higher taste can be "tasted". servant of the servant of the 'Samosa' makers of the Gods, Bhaktajan ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Shree Ishopanishad Mantra 8 Purport: In Bhaagavatam-purana (7.5.30–31) it is stated that those who are captivated by the temporary beauties of the external energy forget the real aim of life, which is to go back to Godhead. Forgetting this, one tries to adjust things by various plans and programs, but this is like chewing what has already been chewed. Nonetheless, the Lord is so kind that He allows the forgetful living entity to continue in this way without interference. Thus this mantra of Sri Ishopanishad uses the very appropriate word yaathaatathyatah, indicating that the Lord rewards the living entities just in pursuance of their desires. If a living being wants to go to hell, the Lord allows him to do so without interference, and if he wants to go back home, back to Godhead, the Lord helps him.

But I have always held the opinion that Male & Females are attracted to eachother because the "MYSTERY OF LIFE" is the bond with a persona. So thus in the material world we seek out refuge/repose/solice in the company of others . . .

I have speculated that male and female will be attacted to each other because [in a very mundane and an uncounscious way], they both preceive their potential offspring (children) would be handsome . . .

There are two kinds of spiritual bodies, as generally understood by common men. The term “spiritual body” is sometimes taken to refer to a ghostly body. An impious man who dies after sinful activities is sometimes condemned so that he cannot possess a gross material body of five material elements, but must live in a subtle body of mind, intelligence and ego. However, as explained in Bhagavad-gita, devotees can give up the material body and attain a spiritual body free from all material tinges, gross and subtle . . . SB 7.7.23: There are two kinds of bodies for every individual soul—a gross body made of five gross elements and a subtle body made of three subtle elements. Within these bodies, however, is the spirit soul. One must find the soul by analysis, saying, “This is not it. This is not it.” Thus one must separate spirit from matter. An expert in the study of soil can find out where gold is and then dig there. He can then analyze the stone and test the gold with nitric acid. Similarly, one must analyze the whole body to find within the body the spirit soul. In studying one’s own body, one must ask himself whether his head is his soul, his fingers are his soul, his hand is his soul, and so on. In this way, one must gradually reject all the material elements and the combinations of material elements in the body. Then, if one is expert and follows the acarya, he can understand that he is the spiritual soul living within the body. The greatest acarya, Krishna , begins His teachings in Bhagavad-gita by saying: “As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.” (Bg. 2.13) The spirit soul possesses the body and is within the body. This is the real analysis. The soul never mixes with the bodily elements. Although the soul is within the body, it is separate and always pure. One must analyze and understand his self. This is self-realization. Neti neti is the analytical process of rejecting matter. By expertly conducting such an analysis, one can understand where the soul is. One who is not expert, however, cannot distinguish gold from earth, nor the soul from the body. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;;; The in-animated elements within the cosmos are of two kinds: 1 gross matter [earth, water, fire, air, either], and, 2 subtle [mind, intelligence, ego]. Buddhist metaphysics is indeed the same study of the impersonal 24 agrregate material elements of the material energy --as is also studied in the Vedanta metaphysics. The Buddhist and the mayavada schools of thought both uphold "Nirvana" & "Brahman Realization" as 'Enlightenment'.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> BUT, why does it take such voluminous volumes of Vedic Scripture to explain a so-called impersonalistic void-like conclusion to the spiritual path, namely 'Nirvana'? It's because the journey of spiritual enlightenment will take us full circle back to a Persona . . .

"People, Place & Things" Mr K: "The value of a name is just what we consciously choose to attach to it." So the fluttering wings of a Butterfly cause ripples of air that affect destiny(s) across the world "HAS NO INFLUENCE"? [i wont mention that Birds and bees pollinate the earth flora --I don't want to confuse peoples speculations with elemenatry truths that are too far removed from their super-duper-lives]

Independent thought for a change? you are so full of it! I have not come to Srila Prabhupada because I am unable to think Independently! I have come to Srila Prabhupada because I was searching for the 'summon bonum' of knowledge --while the BOMBS WERE DROPING --I sought the mysteries of life, as a youth, and I found my self on a (not too unique) journey heading east. I had I sight set on lost knowledge of antiquity --and found it. I would have traveled to India had I not found Srila Prabhupada first. What is with the defense of science? Oh I see it's the abuse by a 'All-knowing' Clergy pontificating on all aspects of life --and young visitors to this Forum Site will not know to beware of "Bull S**t Artists"? Yes, Mr K, you are fearfull of the 'loss of control over Who you are' and thus you warn others [who are much less able to descriminate between the revelations of the Vedas and Svengali tactics] . . . the problem with your statements are that they are so shallow and petty and of no profit. For Example, I joined the Hare Krishna Movement straight out of School --and thus, my old friends and family mocked me and hid there knowledge of my actions --yet, after so many years pass . . . the children of my ol'school chums are heading to War with dopey maniacs while back home in my country the daily tabloids sell advert space while heralding all things mundane and petty "Man bites dog, yet again and again". Hey lets go on Holiday where the exchange rate is best--Iraq, Iran, Siberia, North Korea, Cuba, Venesuela or maybe someplace nice like the Riviera or Paris --all paid with proceeds from a salary earned by some technilogical advantage over the common laborer wits. With out the best of science --we'd be speaking German/Japanese & Arabic! Harray for the our Top Guns!

hypokrisis as "play-acting," i.e. the assumption of a counterfeit persona, that gives the modern word hypocrisy its negative connotation. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Let's be honest --There are hypocrites by way of liars & Cheats; and, there are hypocrites by way of foolishness. Ex-President Clinton Lied to the American People [hypocrites by way of liars & Cheats]. The Gangster boasts that he's innocent, as he is carried in shakles to prison [hypocrites by way of foolishness]. As Boris Pasternak has Yurii say in Doctor Zhivago, "Your health is bound to be affected if, day after day, you say the opposite of what you feel, if you grovel before what you dislike... Our nervous system isn't just fiction, it's part of our physical body, and it can't be forever violated with impunity." READ MY POST AND SEE YOUR FAULTY RANTINGS. Do you turn your intelligence from the GMO Seed forced upon Indian Subsistance farmers? The Airplanes flown into the WTC on 9/11 were by grandchildren of camel herdsmen. We Know nothing and we will awake tomorrow just as haplessly ignorant.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p>curmudgeon: </o:p> <o:p></o:p>A curmudgeon is a miser or an ill-tempered (and frequently old) person full of stubborn ideas or opinions; An ill-tempered (and frequently old) person full of stubborn ideas or opinions.<o:p></o:p> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::; Contrarian Extraordinaire! You go through Maha-Bhagavatas like they were just fodder for your musings. Modern Technology is for comfort first and then for defensive measure. And usually defensive measures are the 'ironic' mother of Invention(s); Kula, do you not know the History Of Japan's industrialisation? Kula, do you not know the old-time reputation of German Technology and its Fruits [karam-phalam]? Next time you watch your favorite STAR-TREK Movie --please recognise the absolute horrid & abominable conditions that the characters are confind to. An out-house is devoid of anti-floating crap vacuums. Gun-powder is made of pig crap. Colombus developed vernerial Diseases. The New World allowed for liberty from Dogma --the Price of Rice and Beans in India is superior to Jet-Fuel. BTW, Jet-Fuel & regular Diesel & regular petroleum is MUCH MUCH Cheaper than MILK; also Junk-foods & Hambergers Have MORE Calories, are cheaper, and more Time-Saving than cooking a meal at home [only Full-Time Tax payers & Lay-about benefit from these time saving gifts of Technology]. What the Hawaiian & Polynesians always say, "More fried SPAM © Please." Kulapavana, whenever he visits Nabraska Rendering Plants: "Oh, I wish I was an Oscar-Meyer Weiner, That's what I truely like to be...e...eee" "Vedic science of cosmology is just as dead" --Kulapavana. So, since 1965, you've formed you own opinions, Huh? You've been to the mountain and now you are Pontificator One Dasa.

Epilogue:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Isho-panishad - Mantra Nine <o:p></o:p> andhaà tamaù praviçanti<o:p></o:p> ye ’vidyäm upäsate<o:p></o:p> tato bhüya iva te tamo<o:p></o:p> ya u vidyäyäm ratäù<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> TRANSLATION<o:p></o:p> Those who engage in the culture of nescient activities shall enter into the darkest region of ignorance. Worse still are those engaged in the culture of so-called knowledge.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> This mantra offers a comparative study of vidyä and avidyä. Avidyä, or ignorance, is undoubtedly dangerous, but vidyä, or knowledge, is even more dangerous when mistaken or misguided. This mantra of Çré Éçopaniñad is more applicable today than at any time in the past. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Modern civilization has advanced considerably in the field of mass education, but the result is that people are more unhappy than ever before because of the stress placed on material advancement to the exclusion of the most important part of life, the spiritual aspect.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> As far as vidyä is concerned, the first mantra has explained very clearly that the Supreme Lord is the proprietor of everything and that forgetfulness of this fact is ignorance. The more a man forgets this fact of life, the more he is in darkness. In view of this, a godless civilization directed toward the so-called advancement of education is more dangerous than a civilization in which the masses of people are less “educated.”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Of the different classes of men—karmés, jïänés and yogés—the karmés are those who are engaged in the activities of sense gratification. In the modern civilization, 99.9 percent of the people are engaged in the activities of sense gratification under the flags of industrialism, economic development, altruism, political activism, and so on. All these activities are more or less based on satisfaction of the senses, to the exclusion of the kind of God consciousness described in the first mantra.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the language of the Bhagavad-gétä (7.15), people who are engaged in gross sense gratification are müòhas—asses. The ass is a symbol of stupidity. Those who simply engage in the profitless pursuit of sense gratification are worshiping avidyä, according to Çré Éçopaniñad. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And those who play the role of helping this sort of civilization in the name of educational advancement are actually doing more harm than those who are on the platform of gross sense gratification. The advancement of learning by a godless people is as dangerous as a valuable jewel on the hood of a cobra. A cobra decorated with a valuable jewel is more dangerous than one not decorated. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya (3. 11.12), the advancement of education by a godless people is compared to decorations on a dead body. In India, as in many other countries, some people follow the custom of leading a procession with a decorated dead body for the pleasure of the lamenting relatives. In the same way, modern civilization is a patchwork of activities meant to cover the perpetual miseries of material existence. All such activities are aimed toward sense gratification. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> But above the senses is the mind, and above the mind is the intelligence, and above the intelligence is the soul. Thus the aim of real education should be self-realization, realization of the spiritual values of the soul. Any education which does not lead to such realization must be considered avidyä, or nescience. And to culture such nescience means to go down to the darkest region of ignorance.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> According to the Bhagavad-gétä (2.42, 7.15), mistaken mundane educators are known as veda-väda-rata and mäyayäpahåta-jïäna. They may also be atheistic demons, the lowest of men. Those who are veda-väda-rata pose themselves as very learned in the Vedic literature, but unfortunately they are completely diverted from the purpose of the Vedas. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In the Bhagavad-gétä (15.15) it is said that the purpose of the Vedas is to know the Personality of Godhead, but these veda-väda-rata men are not at all interested in the Personality of Godhead. On the contrary, they are fascinated by such fruitive results as the attainment of heaven.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> As stated in Mantra One, we should know that the Personality of Godhead is the proprietor of everything and that we must be satisfied with our allotted portions of the necessities of life. The purpose of all Vedic literature is to awaken this God consciousness in the forgetful living being, and this same purpose is presented in various ways in the different scriptures of the world for the understanding of a foolish mankind. Thus the ultimate purpose of all religions is to bring one back to Godhead.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> But the veda-väda-rata people, instead of realizing that the purpose of the Vedas is to revive the forgetful soul’s lost relationship with the Personality of Godhead, take it for granted that such side issues as the attainment of heavenly pleasure for sense gratification—the lust for which causes their material bondage in the first place—are the ultimate end of the Vedas. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Such people misguide others by misinterpreting the Vedic literature. Sometimes they even condemn the Puräëas, which are authentic Vedic explanations for laymen. The veda-väda-ratas give their own explanations of the Vedas, neglecting the authority of great teachers (äcäryas). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They also tend to raise some unscrupulous person from among themselves and present him as the leading exponent of Vedic knowledge. Such veda-väda-ratas are especially condemned in this mantra by the very appropriate Sanskrit words vidyäyäà ratäù. Vidyäyäm refers to the study of the Vedas because the Vedas are the origin of all knowledge (vidyä), and ratäù means “those engaged.” Vidyäyäà ratäù thus means “those engaged in the study of the Vedas.” <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The so-called students of the Vedas are condemned herein because they are ignorant of the actual purpose of the Vedas on account of their disobeying the äcäryas. Such veda-väda-ratas search out meanings in every word of the Vedas to suit their own purposes. They do not know that the Vedic literature is a collection of extraordinary books that can be understood only through the chain of disciplic succession.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One must approach a bona fide spiritual master in order to understand the transcendental message of the Vedas. That is the direction of the Muëòaka Upaniñad (1.2.12). These veda-väda-rata people, however, have their own äcäryas, who are not in the chain of transcendental succession. Thus they progress into the darkest region of ignorance by misinterpreting the Vedic literature. They fall even further into ignorance than those who have no knowledge of the Vedas at all.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The mäyayäpahåta-jïäna class of men are self-made “Gods.” Such men think that they themselves are God and that there is no need of worshiping any other God. They will agree to worship an ordinary man if he happens to be rich, but they will never worship the Personality of Godhead. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Such men, unable to recognize their own foolishness, never consider how it is that God can be entrapped by mäyä, His own illusory energy. If God were ever entrapped by mäyä, mäyä would be more powerful than God. Such men say that God is all-powerful, but they do not consider that if He is all-powerful there is no possibility of His being overpowered by mäyä. These self-made “Gods” cannot answer all these questions very clearly; they are simply satisfied to have become “God” themselves.<o:p></o:p>

Bg 15.3-4:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> The real form of this tree cannot be perceived in this world. No one can understand where it ends, where it begins, or where its foundation is. But with determination one must cut down this strongly rooted tree with the weapon of detachment. Thereafter, one must seek that place from which, having gone, one never returns, and there surrender to that Supreme Personality of Godhead from whom everything began and from whom everything has extended since time immemorial.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> It is now clearly stated that the real form of this banyan tree cannot be understood in this material world. Since the root is upwards, the extension of the real tree is at the other end. When entangled with the material expansions of the tree, one cannot see how far the tree extends, nor can one see the beginning of this tree. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yet one has to find out the cause. “I am the son of my father, my father is the son of such-and-such a person, etc.” By searching in this way, one comes to Brahmä, who is generated by the Garbhodakaçäyé Viñëu. Finally, in this way, when one reaches the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is the end of research work. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One has to search out that origin of this tree, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, through the association of persons who are in knowledge of that Supreme Personality of Godhead.<o:p></o:p> ---<o:p></o:p> Bg 18.2:<o:p></o:p> The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: The giving up of activities that are based on material desire is what great learned men call the renounced order of life [sannyäsa]. And giving up the results of all activities is what the wise call renunciation [tyäga].<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> The performance of activities for results has to be given up. This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gétä. But activities leading to advanced spiritual knowledge are not to be given up. This will be made clear in the next verses. In the Vedic literature there are many prescriptions of methods for performing sacrifice for some particular purpose. There are certain sacrifices to perform to attain a good son or to attain elevation to the higher planets, but sacrifices prompted by desires should be stopped. However, sacrifice for the purification of one’s heart or for advancement in the spiritual science should not be given up.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> ---<o:p></o:p> SB 1.17.38<o:p></o:p> Süta Gosvämé said: Mahäräja Parékñit, thus being petitioned by the personality of Kali, gave him permission to reside in places where gambling, drinking, prostitution and animal slaughter were performed.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> The basic principles of irreligiosity, such as pride, prostitution, intoxication and falsehood, counteract the four principles of religion, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness. The personality of Kali was given permission to live in four places particularly mentioned by the King, namely the place of gambling, the place of prostitution, the place of drinking and the place of animal slaughter.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Çréla Jéva Gosvämé directs that drinking against the principles of scriptures, such as the sauträmaëé-yajïa, association with women outside marriage, and killing animals against the injunctions of scriptures are irreligious. In the Vedas two different types of injunctions are there for the pravåttas, or those who are engaged in material enjoyment, and for the nivåttas, or those who are liberated from material bondage. The Vedic injunction for the pravåttas is to gradually regulate their activities towards the path of liberation. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Therefore, for those who are in the lowest stage of ignorance and who indulge in wine, women and flesh, drinking by performing sauträmaëé-yajïa, association of women by marriage and flesh-eating by sacrifices are sometimes recommended. Such recommendations in the Vedic literature are meant for a particular class of men, and not for all. But because they are injunctions of the Vedas for particular types of persons, such activities by the pravåttas are not considered adharma. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> One man’s food may be poison for others; similarly, what is recommended for those in the mode of ignorance may be poison for those in the mode of goodness. Çréla Jéva Gosvämé Prabhu, therefore, affirms that recommendations in the scriptures for a certain class of men are never to be considered adharma, or irreligious. But such activities are factually adharma, and they are never to be encouraged. The recommendations in the scriptures are not meant for the encouragement of such adharma, but for regulating the necessary adharma gradually toward the path of dharma.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Following in the footsteps of Mahäräja Parékñit, it is the duty of all executive heads of states to see that the principles of religion, namely austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness, are established in the state, and that the principles of irreligion, namely pride, illicit female association or prostitution, intoxication and falsity, are checked by all means. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And to make the best use of a bad bargain, the personality of Kali may be transferred to places of gambling, drinking, prostitution and slaughterhouses, if there are any places like that. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Those who are addicted to these irreligious habits may be regulated by the injunctions of the scripture. In no circumstances should they be encouraged by any state. In other words, the state should categorically stop all sorts of gambling, drinking, prostitution and falsity. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The state which wants to eradicate corruption by majority may introduce the principles of religion in the following manner:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 1. Two compulsory fasting days in a month, if not more (austerity). Even from the economic point of view, such two fasting days in a month in the state will save tons of food, and the system will also act very favorably on the general health of the citizens.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 2. There must be compulsory marriage of young boys and girls attaining twenty-four years of age and sixteen years of age respectively. There is no harm in coeducation in the schools and colleges, provided the boys and girls are duly married, and in case there is any intimate connection between a male and female student, they should be married properly without illicit relation. The divorce act is encouraging prostitution, and this should be abolished.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 3. The citizens of the state must give in charity up to fifty percent of their income for the purpose of creating a spiritual atmosphere in the state or in human society, both individually and collectively. They should preach the principles of Bhägavatam by: <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> (a) karma-yoga, or doing everything for the satisfaction of the Lord, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> (b) regular hearing of the Çrémad-Bhägavatam from authorized persons or realized souls, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> © chanting of the glories of the Lord congregationally at home or at places of worship, <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> (d) rendering all kinds of service to bhägavatas engaged in preaching Çrémad-Bhägavatam and <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> (e) residing in a place where the atmosphere is saturated with God consciousness. If the state is regulated by the above process, naturally there will be God consciousness everywhere.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Gambling of all description, even speculative business enterprise, is considered to be degrading, and when gambling is encouraged in the state, there is a complete disappearance of truthfulness. Allowing young boys and girls to remain unmarried more than the above-mentioned ages and licensing animal slaughterhouses of all description should be at once prohibited. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The flesh-eaters may be allowed to take flesh as mentioned in the scriptures, and not otherwise. Intoxication of all description—even smoking cigarettes, chewing tobacco or the drinking of tea—must be prohibited.

SB 3.13.9<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Lord Brahmä said: My dear son, O lord of the world, I am very pleased with you, and I desire all blessings for both you and your wife. You have without reservation surrendered yourself unto me with your heart for my instructions.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> The relationship between the father and the son is always sublime. The father is naturally disposed with good will towards the son, and he is always ready to help the son in his progress in life. But in spite of the father’s good will, the son is sometimes misguided because of his misuse of personal independence. Every living entity, however small or big he may be, has the choice of independence. If the son is unreservedly willing to be guided by the father, the father is ten times more eager to instruct and guide him by all means. The father and son relationship as exhibited here in the dealings of Brahmä and Manu is excellent. Both the father and the son are well qualified, and their example should be followed by all humankind. Manu, the son, unreservedly asked the father, Brahmä, to instruct him, and the father, who was full of Vedic wisdom, was very glad to instruct. The example of the father of mankind may be rigidly followed by mankind, and that will advance the cause of the relationship of fathers and sons.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> ---<o:p></o:p> SB 4.1.2<o:p></o:p> Äküti had two brothers, but in spite of her brothers, King Sväyambhuva Manu handed her over to Prajäpati Ruci on the condition that the son born of her be returned to Manu as his son. This he did in consultation with his wife, Çatarüpä.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> Sometimes a sonless person offers his daughter to a husband on the condition that his grandson be returned to him to be adopted as his son and inherit his property. This is called putrikä-dharma, which means that by execution of religious rituals one gets a son, although one is sonless by one’s own wife. But here we see extraordinary behavior in Manu, for in spite of his having two sons, he handed over his first daughter to Prajäpati Ruci on the condition that the son born of his daughter be returned to him as his son. Çréla Viçvanätha Cakravarté Öhäkura comments in this connection that King Manu knew that the Supreme Personality of Godhead would take birth in the womb of Äküti; therefore, in spite of having two sons, he wanted the particular son born of Äküti because he was ambitious to have the Supreme Personality of Godhead appear as his son and grandson. Manu is the lawgiver of mankind, and since he personally executed the putrikä-dharma, we may accept that such a system may be adopted by mankind also. Thus, even though one has a son, if one wants to have a particular son from one’s daughter, one may give one’s daughter in charity on that condition. That is the opinion of Çréla Jéva Gosvämé.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> ------<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> SB 4.21.46<o:p></o:p> They all declared that the Vedic conclusion that one can conquer the heavenly planets by the action of a putra, or son, was fulfilled, for the most sinful Vena, who had been killed by the curse of the brähmaëas, was now delivered from the darkest region of hellish life by his son, Mahäräja Påthu.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> According to the Vedic version, there is a hellish planet called Put, and one who delivers a person from there is called putra. The purpose of marriage, therefore, is to have a putra, or son who is able to deliver his father, even if the father falls down to the hellish condition of put. Mahäräja Påthu’s father, Vena, was a most sinful person and was therefore cursed to death by the brähmaëas. Now all the great saintly persons, sages and brähmaëas present in the meeting, after hearing from Mahäräja Påthu about his great mission in life, became convinced that the statement of the Vedas had been fully proved. The purpose of accepting a wife in religious marriage, as sanctioned in the Vedas, is to have a putra, a son qualified to deliver his father from the darkest region of hellish life. Marriage is not intended for sense gratification but for getting a son fully qualified to deliver his father. But if a son is raised to become an unqualified demon, how can he deliver his father from hellish life? It is therefore the duty of a father to become a Vaiñëava and raise his children to become Vaiñëavas; then even if by chance the father falls into a hellish life in his next birth, such a son can deliver him, as Mahäräja Påthu delivered his father.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> --------<o:p></o:p> SB 9.18.44<o:p></o:p> A son who acts by anticipating what his father wants him to do is first class, one who acts upon receiving his father’s order is second class, and one who executes his father’s order irreverently is third class. But a son who refuses his father’s order is like his father’s stool.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> Püru, Yayäti’s last son, immediately accepted his father’s proposal, for although he was the youngest, he was very qualified. Püru thought, “I should have accepted my father’s proposal before he asked, but I did not. Therefore I am not a first-class son. I am second class. But I do not wish to become the lowest type of son, who is compared to his father’s stool.” One Indian poet has spoken of putra and mütra. putra means “son,” and mütra means “urine.” Both a son and urine come from the same genitals. If a son is an obedient devotee of the Lord he is called putra, or a real son; otherwise, if he is not learned and is not a devotee, a son is nothing better than urine.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> -----<o:p></o:p> SB 2.7.10<o:p></o:p> Mahäräja Vena went astray from the path of righteousness, and the brähmaëas chastised him by the thunderbolt curse. By this King Vena was burnt with his good deeds and opulence and was en route to hell. The Lord, by His causeless mercy, descended as his son, by the name of Påthu, delivered the condemned King Vena from hell, and exploited the earth by drawing all kinds of crops as produce.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> According to the system of varëäçrama-dharma, the pious and learned brähmaëas were the natural guardians of society. The brähmaëas, by their learned labor of love, would instruct the administrator-kings how to rule the country in complete righteousness, and thus the process would go on as a perfect welfare state. The kings or the kñatriya administrators would always consult the council of learned brähmaëas. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They were never autocratic monarchs. The scriptures like Manu-saàhitä and other authorized books of the great sages were guiding principles for ruling the subjects, and there was no need for less intelligent persons to manufacture a code of law in the name of democracy. The less intelligent mass of people have very little knowledge of their own welfare, as a child has very little knowledge of its future well-being. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The experienced father guides the innocent child towards the path of progress, and the childlike mass of people need similar guidance. The standard welfare codes are already there in the Manu-saàhitä and other Vedic literatures. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The learned brähmaëas would advise the king in terms of those standard books of knowledge and with reference to the particular situation of time and place. Such brähmaëas were not paid servants of the king, and therefore they had the strength to dictate to the king on the principles of scriptures. This system continued even up to the time of Mahäräja Candragupta, and the brähmaëa Cäëakya was his unpaid prime minister. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Mahäräja Vena did not adhere to this principle of ruling, and he disobeyed the learned brähmaëas. The broad-minded brähmaëas were not self-interested, but looked to the interest of complete welfare for all the subjects. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> They wanted to chastise King Vena for his misconduct and so prayed to the Almighty Lord as well as cursed the king. Long life, obedience, good reputation, righteousness, prospects of being promoted to higher planets, and blessings of great personalities are all vanquished simply by disobedience to a great soul. One should strictly try to follow in the footsteps of great souls. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Mahäräja Vena became a king, undoubtedly due to his past deeds of righteousness, but because he willfully neglected the great souls, he was punished by the loss of all the above-mentioned acquisitions. In the Vämana Puräëa the history of Mahäräja Vena and his degradation are fully described. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> When Mahäräja Påthu heard about the hellish condition of his father, Vena, who was suffering from leprosy in the family of a mleccha, he at once brought the former king to Kurukñetra for his purification and relieved him of all sufferings.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Mahäräja Påthu, the incarnation of God, descended by the prayer of the brähmaëas to rectify the disorders on earth. He produced all kinds of crops. But, at the same time, he performed the duty of a son who delivers his father from hellish conditions. The word putra means one who delivers from hell, called put. That is a worthy son.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> ----------<o:p></o:p> SB 4.13.32<o:p></o:p> The head priests said: O King, in this life we do not find any sinful activity, even within your mind, so you are not in the least offensive. But we can see that in your previous life you performed sinful activities due to which, in spite of your having all qualifications, you have no son.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> The purpose of marrying is to beget a son, because a son is necessary to deliver his father and forefathers from any hellish conditional life in which they may be. Cäëakya Paëòita therefore says, putra-hénaà gåhaà çünyam: without a son, married life is simply abominable. King Aìga was a very pious king in this life, but because of his previous sinful activity he could not get a son. It is concluded, therefore, that if a person does not get a son it is due to his past sinful life.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> ---<o:p></o:p> SB 4.21.46<o:p></o:p> They all declared that the Vedic conclusion that one can conquer the heavenly planets by the action of a putra, or son, was fulfilled, for the most sinful Vena, who had been killed by the curse of the brähmaëas, was now delivered from the darkest region of hellish life by his son, Mahäräja Påthu.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> According to the Vedic version, there is a hellish planet called Put, and one who delivers a person from there is called putra. The purpose of marriage, therefore, is to have a putra, or son who is able to deliver his father, even if the father falls down to the hellish condition of put. Mahäräja Påthu’s father, Vena, was a most sinful person and was therefore cursed to death by the brähmaëas. Now all the great saintly persons, sages and brähmaëas present in the meeting, after hearing from Mahäräja Påthu about his great mission in life, became convinced that the statement of the Vedas had been fully proved. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The purpose of accepting a wife in religious marriage, as sanctioned in the Vedas, is to have a putra, a son qualified to deliver his father from the darkest region of hellish life. Marriage is not intended for sense gratification but for getting a son fully qualified to deliver his father.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> But if a son is raised to become an unqualified demon, how can he deliver his father from hellish life? It is therefore the duty of a father to become a Vaiñëava and raise his children to become Vaiñëavas; then even if by chance the father falls into a hellish life in his next birth, such a son can deliver him, as Mahäräja Påthu delivered his father.<o:p></o:p>

Ok. This much I'll admit to --for sure 100% speculation: If asked on the street, at random, 95% of average teenagers and adults will not be able to point out Afgahanistan on the map, or, who the Vice-Presidents Name is, or, what is the name of the Local Polititian who represents your county-provence ---BUT THEY ALL KNOW THAT THE STARS IS THE SKY EMIT THEIR OWN LIGHT! --[such is their humble erudition!]

Yes Sir Captain Sir! As Captain Marvel says, "Shazam"! [yes, its a word!] also a space cadette, bhaktajan

He's old Cow Hand from Vrindavan Land . . . He's old Cow Hand from Vrindavan Land . . .

Have not yet read the above --but it looks delicious!!! Thank You Babaji for the Nectar! Please remember to update this Thread whenever next possible.

"Twinkling effect results from the refraction of light by the optical lenses of the telescope ... with your ordinary camera. I KNOW THAT! [bTW, Is the image flipped up-side-down Too? ~FYI: this is a 'trick question'] THAT IS MY POINT! Our understanding is 'refracted' in soooo many ways! We are a miniscule 'refraction' ourselves. Who are you defending your ego from? Pretty Bimbos and College professors? Chatty Neighbor?--'Ooooh, Did you hear, Jimmyboy says the Stars in the sky don't emit light?--such Heresy!' We don't know NOTHING!*** Will your Grandparents be forced to seek bombshelters? Well, we better plan for what we do know perfectly well! Let's us stop proving how well we followed popular opinion as repeated & repeated over and over until WE KNOW IT'S TRUTH! Maybe Now, this thread will detour into Muslim Pathos . . . [. . . 'go figure'] ***Please excuse my rant, if you are qualified as followed: 1] You possessed a bonefide Phd in Astrophysics, and, 2] You have unlimited access and use of Mountain top Observatory Telescope, and, 3] You have worked Full-Time and are Familiar with the Observatory Telescope Archive Records of Photo-Topographic Mappings of the Milkyway et al, and, 4] You are a Lead Professor of the Physics Department of a University --presently conducting Federal Goverment Funded Research for the Military --regarding Deep Space Exploration. and, 5] You are an experienced Astronout who neglected to do your job while in space (ie: meter readings and record keeping) --so as to stare out the portal at the darkness[?] to keep a private log of YOUR acute observations. or, 6] You are: Dr Who (ID Required). also a space cadette, bhaktajan As Number 6 asked, "I want to Who is number One?"

Oy, The graphic that you posted above show stars with that classic . . . whatchama-call it . . . twinkle refraction(?) indicating radiant emission of light. The Graphic you show above is artificial! Your speculations about the Candle-foot Power Emission-Output of: "Billions & Billions" of Suns emitting light into the void of Space --traveling at the speed of light --unhampered ... is just "subjective speculation". BTW, Do astronout(s), famously work and sleep without need of theirown on-board powered LightBulbs? Or do they routinely seek to shade themselves from glaring Spot-light Effulgence(s) of the Sun [i know about the solar-radiation factor ~such radiation does not emit light]. BTW, How do you know these things you say? Are you receiving Goverment Grants & Salary to investigate and vet these so-called scientific observations? I do understand and appriciate fervent arm-chair speculation like the next Common Joe seekikng employment and cheap deals at the local market. Stars don’t illuminate the Earth at night Stars are too far away The Earth’s atmosphere absorbs most starlight. Without the atmosphere, stars would indeed illuminate the Earth (at 'moonless' nights). Without an atmosphere, there wouldn't be any life on Earth to appreciate it. These are the opinions of Gurus who serve masters that use people as testing laboratories so as to create sales statistics to refine there market share and Yearly Sales Output. These are the opinions of Gurus who care not a wit for the price of rice in India.

The meanings of the "Symbols" or "metaphors" are often translated in eleborated ways. The sentences are garbled with bad grammer --but the Name/Places/Things are clearly included in your thoughts. so the easy way to interpret the dream is to see connections of the concerns. -------------- I do not think dreams predict the future . . . But I believe they can see the future --via unconscious "Calculated forethought" IOW, repressed insight. The mind can do reasoning on a subtle level before reaching the stage of being spoken aloud or even though-out --this is where dreams address issues that are kept unspoken for the sake of decorum. The definitive thing is that we humans observe most "Symbols" or "metaphors" with equal & universally accepted definitions. With that said how about: .................................................... http://www.dreammoods.com/ best regards & wellwishes***, Bhaktajan PS: I have had many many dreams that later occured exactly as it was dreamt. ***"wellwishes" --Try pre-emptive wellwishes for loved ones --it may work wonders.

Opinion Request: Of all the people, all over the world, who have lived, from let us say, 2,000 BCE until the 1800's CE --did not each and every person and also, each and every living creature "Live-out their destiny(s)?" The obvious, indoubtable response is 'Yes'. For those who will suggest that they still had free will to change their destiny(s) as they went along with their lives . . . [and I would agree] . . . but then still the senerio stays the same: Did all the people and every living creature, during the distant past until the recent past "Live-out their destiny(s)?" birth after birth after birth after birth etc.? Isn't it the wiser path to escape from the cycle of frutive acts --rather then be vested and permanently entrenched?

Here's one view that I don't agree with: <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Modern scientists and astronomers try to explain the cosmic situation and the vastness of space, and some of them believe that all the glittering stars are different suns. From Bhagavad-gītā, however, we understand that all these stars (nakṣatras) are like the moon, in that they reflect the sunshine. They are not independent luminaries. http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=44671 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> If the stars are self-luminus like the Sun --then why is Space darkened? Football stadiums can be alit as if the Sky was on fire . . . but "Billions & Billions" of Suns emitting light into the void of Space --traveling at the speed of light [299,792,458 metres per second. //or// 186,282 miles per second]. Yet the third world citizen needs a candle while walking under a sky filled with Suns. Yeah, Science will make a better future for humanity ... at least till your dead and gone and your grandchildren can play video games while drinking highfructose corn syrups.

A primary Lesson: Die consciously [ideally].

A primary Lesson: Before conceiving a child: 1] refrain from sex and then 2] pray fervantly along with spouse --then, conceive ~[vs. drunken romps et al].