Priitaa

Please forward this to everyone you know: A customer wrote to Power Bar inquiring if their health food product contained organic soy or Genetically Modified (GM) soy. They market their product as a health food, yet read their reply: Dear sir, Thank you for contacting PowerBar on the Internet. We welcome questions and comments from consumers and appreciate your inquiry regarding genetically modified ingredients. PowerBar uses ingredients that meet our high quality standards and are in full compliance with U.S. government regulations. Genetically modified (GM) crops grown in the US have been reviewed extensively by the FDA, USDA and EPA, who have determined that GM crops are as safe as their conventional counterparts. Because the use of GM crops does not affect the safety or quality of the ingredients made from them, we do not require that our suppliers specify the origin of the crops they use. Thank you again for contacting us. We appreciate your use of our products and hope that you visit our web site often. Sincerely, PowerBar Consumer Relations -------- Hogwash. Read the other side of the story, and feel free to distribute this entire email to all you know and care about (including those who serve the Deities!) - "I seem to have discovered the reason for there being 'no data to suggest that GM foods may be dangerous' - the reason is that there is no data. fullstop! " Read the rest of this story at: http://www.rense.com/general3/crops.htm "The alleged benefits of GM crops are not based on independent studies and there is hardly any research on the long-term environmental risks." Read story: http://www.rense.com/general6/gmunknown.htm "From pizza to chips, soda to infant formula, ice cream to cookies, vitamins to candies, genetically engineered organisms are in the foods we feed our kids every day. Virtually every food you can think of is in the genetically engineered pipeline. And coming soon . . . rat genes in your lettuce, cows that make human milk, and bananas with vaccines." -- Dr. John Hagelin" See: http://www.rense.com/general6/gmperild.htm "Biotechnology industry consultant Chris Klose says the big biotechnology companies are not treating consumer concerns about genetic modification seriously enough.' SEE http://www.rense.com/general5/exp.htm "The Kellogg Co. has been forced to shut down production at one plant because the company could not find corn guaranteed to be free of a genetically modified grain approved only for animal consumption, food industry sources said yesterday. The shutdown was the most visible evidence of the problems that have been confronting the U.S. food industry since officials discovered that the genetically engineered corn had been widely distributed throughout the country, industry officials said." SEE: http://www.rense.com/general4/kel.htm "Up to now, this has not been a problem, because almost all modified plants on the market have been food crops. But the next generation of modified crops is going to be different. Biotech companies dream of creating plants that produce everything from drugs and plastics to biofuels. The predicament facing the food industry is that a banana containing a potent drug is likely to look the same as the banana in your packed lunch" SEE: http://www.rense.com/general4/taco.htm MORE: http://www.rense.com/general4/taco.htm http://www.rense.com/general3/hepp.htm http://www.rense.com/general3/vird.htm http://www.rense.com/general/gmout.htm

I dont know that anyone said the temples are filled with pure deovtees. ha There are all different types of devotees and not just one type. I agree things should be different. I also agree times have changed since Prabhupada was personally present. The entire energy is different now. However, not to misunderstand. Its not as if all the people in all the temples are prejudiced or fanatics. There are more kind hearted souls there and they are not mentioned here since they are not the topic. Its like going to see a doctor regularly. He (theoretically) says, "I dont know one of you Hare Krishna's who is healthy." Then we point out, "You are a doctor. You never see anybody when they are healthy." ha So there are many wonderful devotees who live in the temples, as well as out of them. Just for the record, this problem is a symptom of kali yuga and not any one type of temple or organization. It goes on in Hindu temples too. True. Though eating meat can bring on wars, disease and pestilence. Still, becoming a vegetarian is not enough. One must change their consciousness as well. (Though devotees aren't mere vegetarians. They eat Krishna prasad. Another topic.)

I bet they made the same points when Gurukuli abuse was going on. True, it won't be solved here. But we have to stop thinking in the large "sledge hammer" terms. That is, that only if we go thru the GBC or some authority, problems will get solved. Actually they are suppose to be servants of the people. If the people starts to scream loud enough, they will listen. If they dont, in time they will loose their post which they are very attached to. So instead of a sleduge hammer, the tiny jewelers hammer will also work, as word gets spread through word of mouth and ultimately goes full circle. But you're right, if a person can't take it, then don't click on the thread.

Well, we can give him the opportunity to prove they are true. I didn't see where he said he would not give any evidence, only that he would not give detalis. Maybe he had personal correspondence with Amara and knows what he's talking about but doesn't want to put all that here for all eyes. Anyway, from the posts of JNdas that I have read, he doesn't have a pattern of making comments on subject matter he hasn't first looked into. I agree no one should be treated differently at a temple, but reality is, they are. Heck, I've been treated differently at the temple. My black friend once confided in me her black friend was called the "N" word by a devotee. I've heard of, and seen, the "simple" type of brahmacari being pushed around and taken advantage of at the temple. My bet is, this list is long. I still hold to my opinion that Srila Prabhupada would have never authorized any type of homosexual group. That's the most important point.

WOAH!! If all JNdas is saying is accurate, I have to agree with him. Those who say this topic should not even posted to these forums, that the topic should be avoided or that everything here must be kept "pure," I humbly disagree. To stick our heads in the sand like an ostrich does not make problems go away, though it certainly will help them grow.

(sigh) Seeing him like that ....... maks me miss the old days.

Having trouble posting a second one, but here's one last attempt.

Thanks prabhu, for the reminder. Here's one.

Sriman George Harrison was not Jagad guru, that is the position of a pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada. But George did chant Hare Krishna at the moment of death, so he is saved. As for giving money to Yogananda who was an impersonalist, we don't have to approve, we dont even have to like it. I dont like it, but to take it the point of judging any one who chanted Hare Krishna upon their death is an offense, judging, and putting yourself at risk. George brought more people to Krishna than most of us ever could. I have been told that Srila Prabhupada said something along those lines. Not to criticize George cuz we could never do all he has done. To the critics I say, what have YOU done today to preach? And to how many? (Not looking for an answer, just food for thought.) If George was less than perfect & gave $ to Yogananda, instead of criticizing George we should instead look to see what made him turn away from ISKCON and toward SRF. ISKCON must have burned him somehow, so we need to clean up our own mess rather than blaming others for seeing it. (Tho blaming others is what we have a habit of doing.) Not to misunderstand, he never totally gave up Iskcon either!

Haribol Kulapavana prabhu, Thank you. Actually I wasn't arguing with anything you said. Maybe adding on, that's all. "However, one important point needs to be made: even in the spiritual world the living entity can have emotional relationship with persons other than Krishna, certainly your guru included." Hmmmm My guru included? Wondering what that means. Anyway........ We are not in the spiriutal world and are not on the same level as such souls. To have a relationship with those of the spiritual sky is to never be forgetting Krishna, because when one thinks of the pure devotee, such as these residents, you are automatically connected to Krishna. They are very different types of relationships up there. "Various pure forms of love for other living entities do not diminish your ability to love Krishna." I never said they do. I do say there is risk of entanglement and getting too attached to persons other than Krishna, therfore having to take birth again. "I would dare to say that perhaps the opposite is true: if you cant love your closest family, chances are you cant love Krishna either, as you are in love with yourself. " Yes, and I made this point also, that when we understand love for our marriage partner (since that was the topic) it helps us understand that love of God exists too. But this is beginning knowledge. As we advance, we all ready know that and just want to love Krishna cent per cent.

Haribol Myra, Thank you for your nice reply. I was initially unsure about opening this thread, not because of who answered, as I didn't know, but from seeing the numbers, indicating replies in general. The reason? My previous experience on this topic, because I have been so outspoken against old men marrying young virgin girls, has not been well recieved by such men though I wish to clarify, not all men. Especially dad's of daughters understand my point, and share my concern. Most of them see how wrong this is. Anyway, I thank you for your kind post. Now, I don't know how realized I am. ha I am just struggling like anyone else. Its Prabhupada's books that are my saving grace. Yes, I do understand you are speaking of a union based in love and respect. That should be there. Unless verbalized, often, in this age of kali it more likely not to be. Unless empowered by words or preaching. But I take it a step further. As we look at the Vedas what is considered first class is to never marry, to remain celibate, and to think of, fall in love with, and serve only God or Krishna. I am also a realist. In this age, those who have been more successful in Krishna consciousness are those who marry and serve Krishna together. There is often a fine line between loving ones mate and loving God. That is for each individual to decide for themselves. But ultimately cruel death separates us all. This is one reason why, if one is advanced enough not to marry but to dedicate their life only to love of God, that is the best as it is the least painful. (What to speak of the pain raising teenagers. ha) In most cases however, to be total monk/nun should not be attempted until the end of life. Thus, 4 ashrams. From youth to about age 25, one is to be brahmacari or brahmacarini. Celibate too. From about age 25 - 50 (for a man, starts a little younger for a woman) there is grhasta life or marriage. Also celibate except to bring Vaisnava's into the world. From approximately age 50 one can take Varnaprastha, where they remain married but travel to Holy places on pilgriage. Sometimes with their spouse, sometimes without. It is the weaning process, getting ready for the next phase. I really dont know exactly what age Vranaprastha starts and when Sanyasa starts, but shortly after Varnaprastha is the total renunciation of married life completely, called sanyas. For men they travel and carry a dunda or stick to indicate their ashrama and their asuterity. For women they put on white to signify their renunciation as a widow, in this case, by choice. Now can we all do that? No. But to understand the highest knowledge we first need to understand how the Vedas have it set up. Then we can be honest wihtin regarding what we can handle. Most important is to do whatever we need to do that will facilitate chanting Hare Krishna at the time of death.

Good point! /images/graemlins/smile.gif And so true. Myra, Yes, but where do you live? In the ashrama? My understanding was the poster either lives in the ashrama, or nearby but made the choice to run his life in a similar manner. Much philosophy can be preached, but association is important. If we live in associaiton that harasses us, we first need to either set stronger boundaries, or relocate. After that we can employ these philosophical points.

Haridhama, I will sum up my 'opinions' here. And remember, they are only opinoins. You are the only one who really knows what needs doing. 1. Since you have a wife stuck in another country, and being harassed, it is imperative you get a job to earn the money to bring her here. A college education is good in the long run, but it takes years to get a degree. She's not going to make it. 2. Stop worrying about how your parents or anyone else will think of you. Once you got married, that became your new family. (Wife and future children, who will want to hear how dad saved mom and not the opposite.) 3. There is no need for any of this to interfere with your Krishna consciousness. Grahsta's can be Krishna conscioius too. Matter of fact, putting ideology aside, who we actually see as surving it all and doing the best in their spiritual life are those who marry. Simply keep chanting Hare Krishna, etc., and take care of your responsibilities too. Please dont misuse Krishna consciousness as others have in the past, to get out of something in the name of God. And I'm not saying you are, just putting up a warning that you may be encouraged in this way. 4. If you commit suicide, I'll come after you myself! lol (I once heard a nondevotee say of her son that was constantly getting in auto accidents and trouble in general, after receiving a call from the police AGAIN, "If my son got in an accident which cost him his life, I will kill him!" (She knew he hadn't.) :-)

I remember this question from my earliest days in the ashrama. Ahtiests ask it, mayavadi's ask it, and I suppose as someone mentioned, some Christians may ask it too. Personally I was thrilled when I heard Prabhupada's answer was "Yes, and then He will lift it." /images/graemlins/smile.gif But those of little faith, they will never get it. I doubt there is much you can say to 'convince' your parents other than Prabhupada's example. You must remember, most do not ask this question to try to understand Krishna, but to criticise your religion, or to try to create doubts within you. So it is a question of challenge, not one of submissive inquirey from those who merely want to know. They 'dont' want to know, and are usually trying to get those they ask it of to see how 'so-called' wrong Krishna consciousness is. Its almost humorous, as "they" are trying to enlighten 'you.' ha I suspect your parents are not devotees? Tho you could try replacing "Krishna" with "God," and they may accept. AFTER they accept, thats when you change it back to "Krishna." /images/graemlins/smile.gif But it's also important to not let this question get us on the mental platform. That's its purpose. Let's not empoewr it by doing so.

True, I was taught both, that it was the Krishna bead, and that it was the spiritual master bead. But mostly I was taught it was the spiritual master bead, from day one. Does anyone have quotes from Srila Prabhupada? Tho its true that could both be correct! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Go figure. Anyway, quotes might clear it up. Even if both turn out to be accurate, it may clarify it.

LOL I'm not trying to be more right. I've just been there, done that.

Thanks. Yes, they are wasps too, but they are a different type then the other ones. They have entirely different types of bodies. Maybe they are a different family or strain. As for medical value, I have heard this. Tho technically, I'm not allergic, I blew up for four days as well as began to itch in a very large area near the place stung. So I did a little research and read you could have never had an allergic reaction and then one day have a life threatening one! Mine was not life threatening, and only repeated itself each of the four times, but I don't want to push my luck. Anyway, I hope folks remember this and it helps someone. Even if they are not allergic (to their knowledge) they could suddenly become allergic! Severely.

The head bead refers to the spiritual master. That's why you are not suppose to cross 'over' it after completing one round, but turn around and start chanting the other direction.

All I know is Prabhupada told us 108 beads for 108 gopis, and the first 8 beads represent the first 8 principle gopis. Thats why there sometimes is a string marking them off from the rest.

I do not think 'you' are trying to be more advanced. Matter of fact, I thought you meant this with all good intent. But it needed clearing, as one who does not know could stretch it toward sahajiya. Again, not saying you are doing this. Well yes, but that's easy to say if you don't live in a temple (or close by but are surrendered to the temple, therefore your whole life is busy there). Temple lifestyle is entirely different, and your reputation follows you everywehere, which in turn effects how others treat you. So its not that we should care with others think of us, but to understand what they think of us, is how they will treat us. In this sense, we care. At least, until we become pure devotees. :-) Of course its not. I get the feeling your room and board, medical, clothing, etc., is not dependent on temple authorities. And can go home where you can get away from them. Sometimes, not all times. This is a partial truth but should not be misunderstood as an absolute truth. This theory is not backed up by any literature on abuse. If anything, it sets a person up to be abused. But not if they can get away from the problem/person/etc, which I suspect you can. Right. 1.Bhakti yoga is not new to me. I have been practicing it many years. But as a psychology? It's purpose is to get us out of the material world, to help us develop love of Krishna. 2. One size fits all psychology is not a good idea. With that said....... I understand humility is not weakness. I was under the impression that the original poster, and others actually, were indicating this is the way they have been treated not only by nondevotees, but by devotees too. Surely devotees know humility is not weakness, but still it happens that some translate it that way. Many authorities do in fact translate it that way. Not all of them, but my point is, unless you have gone thru living in an ashrama and/or tightly under a (devotee) authority, there is much more to it than you may be aware of, so to please see this other perspective. Thanks.

Thank you prabhu. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks prabhu, They are not wasps. Actually, we do have wasps, but can't get rid of them cuz they have lived here longer than we have and they are imbedded .... in something deep. Yet they are not a problem. We have worked out a contract. They dont sting me, and I will open the door to let them out if they get stuck inside by accident. It works! Now allow me to explain. I once read, some magazine or book, how these very peace oriented persons were able to live even amongst the bees. It gave detail (basic tho) on how they did this. I tired it (long ago) and was successful! So 8 years of wasps = no problem, never got stung by them once. Maybe they are a little more intelligent than yellow jackets, I dont know. And so it's the yellow jakcets that are stinging me, but not with intent. And yes, they are dying. That's why they are stinging me! :-) I dont want to wait for them to die off or winter to come and get stung a bunch of times more until I can plug the cracks. lol Although as of today, it looks like they are all gone. Its looked like that before tho, and they sneak back in. Unlike the wasps, who will actually go out the door if I open it, these yellow jackets throw their body against the window even as I stand two feet away holding the door open. Either its sickenss or stupidity, I dont know. ha

WOW! Good one Thiest! Yes, we lie to ourselves, we lie about our emotions, we lie about what we really want to do for service when they ask us to stretch it, we say they didnt mean what they said when indeed they did, hmmmm I bet more could fit on this list, but at the moment I can't think of any.

Oh wow, we are not gopis and should not try to immitate or be more advanced then we really are. Maybe you didn't mean that, but without clarification the risk is there. Anyway, we can meditate on Krishna at the same time we are learning how to become strong. Matter of fact, accepting our various challenges in life can make us shake in our shoes so much while taking them on (talking about me here ha) which in turn forces us to think of Him! I have been put thru the mill, so am not just speaking out of my hat. Humility is too often not honored and instead is treated as weakness, even by some devotees and/or some authorities. Its not what we want to hear, but its a fact. Its also not an absolute truth, and not something we should loose, just balance. We often have been passiive when we should have been strong (not agressive), then agressive when we should have been passive. (cuz holding things in made it so we couldn't take it anymore and blew up.) And this is what passive/agressive is. So we have to be careful we dont use what we think is spiriutal philosophy to support our emotional problems.

Thiest, Thank you for the way you responded to the unnamed guest. I have to admit, there are times I want to let loose, and you usually find a way to say things I had not thought of. Yes, it would be good to discuss that topic ....... "elsewhere." I did not bring up the subject of who thinks they and their religion are better than anyone else, nor was I even thinking that way. I only asked my question about this Hindu lady and what others on the 'same path' as myself believe. I would appreciate it if only the devotees of Lord Krishna who "take shelter of Srila Prabhupada," would give their two cents. That way we can avoid speculation. I do agree, however, that other topics can still be discussed, again elswhere. Thanks.