Priitaa

This topic seems to come up from time to time, so here I go again. /images/graemlins/smile.gif These are my three web pages on Christ and Krishna: Christ & Krishna #1 Jesus as Guru explained, In ‘Pictures’ section (which has NO pictures, Sorry) is the topic - Did Jesus wear Vaisnava tilaka?, (shroud/Byzantine/boy w/sikha), he Lost Years (Jesus went to India in his youth), Bible is mistranslated. Vegetarianism/etc. in the Bible, Talks between Srila Prabhupada & Father Emmanuel, "In My Name Only" (& other misc misunderstandings like bread to fish story, the cry from the cross (he never did it), Church alterations, the last supper), Perfect Questions/Perfect Answers, Conv w/Cardinal Danielou & Srila Prabhupada, etc. http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/christ_and_krishna Christ and Krishna, Part 2 – Aquarian Gospel Excerpts: Explains the "Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ" that would not be understood without Prabhupada's books. These excerpts better clarify Jesus at the Ratha Yatra festival, Jesus and the Deity of Lord Jagannatha/Krishna, he debunks the (kali yuga) caste system and any unqualified priests who follow such a system. Reveals how he learned to heal, his travels in India, etc. Additionally, excerpt from a recent letter by a devotee validating Christ was at the Jagannatha Puri temple, India, Reincarnation in the Bible, 2nd Council of Constantinople Bible changes dates back to 553 A.D. Plus, Prabhupada quotes about Jesus. http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/christ_and_krishna_pt2.htm Christ & Krishna Pt 3 – Shroud, Islam, Purana’s, etc. Scriptural AND scientific evidence that Jesus survived the crucifixion, evidence the Shroud belonged to Jesus, Christ preached in many countries & to many religions, location of the "real" Promised Land, various scriptures give mention of Jesus including the Bhavisya Purana where Christ reveals his secret knowledge & his secret plan for his disciples. Proof that Jesus lived in India and left his body in Kashmir. More Prabhupada quotes on the topic. (Discover the connection between Radharani and Mother Mary) http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/christ_and_krishna_pt3.htm

primal therapy = Screaming gestalt therapy = yelling at a chair. bioenergetics - I dont know this one, but I hope it is different from the others and not so violent. Some may need such a realse, but not that everyone does. Moving on, I agree that going to seminars by devotees (or anyone really) that guarantee instant cure is questionable at best. But I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater but instead, look for something middle ground. (I still think my book idea is best. Its private, its safe, etc. But thats up to you.) I also do not think it is wise in most cases to go to devotees in the first place. You can discuss with them casually, but to have them therapize you, well, its a small world for ISCKON devotees and gossip travels. I have actually seen this happen, devotees who said they were going to do therapy on someone and help them, phone someone up with private matters that person revealed to them in confidence. So beware. I also tend to trust more someone who has a certificate on their wall than those who read a few self help books and now think they can help more than just theirself. Prabhupada's temples should not be used for all this seminar stuff either. I have no problem with them in general (if licensed, like Dr. Phil), but some devotees are starting to make therapy our religion. Our temples and communities, our entire movement should be for Krishna consciousness only. This is what Prabhupada started and desired. I can't imagine Prabhuapda being pleased we use his communities for seminars and therapy, or even authorizing it in the first place. If someone needs a medical or psychology type of doctor, they should go to a licensed one outside the community. Thats my two cents worth. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Well, I think everyone's experiene is individual, tho there is a certain degree of temple life that is repetitive and most everyone has had at least some experience of it. I am speaking here of what you are talking about, as I wish to clarify there are also good things to be had. I am glad I moved in the temple and got trained up. I am also glad I moved out. /images/graemlins/smile.gif With that said..... You may have been taken advantage of, it happens. Especially if you are shy or don't speak up. Yet I see that as one of your life lessons - to learn how to become strong and speak up when need be. It may take time to develop that quality, but if this happens enough, you'll catch on, guaranteed! :-) However, at least it is in Krishna's service. Therefore if they had you doing this or that in the name of humility but really were control freaks, well, being a control freak all ready shows they have a problem. But aside from that, you were doing devotional service, so you win. Tho I can very much relate to how annoying false humility is, and how it has often been used to get a person to do something.

I agree that devotees can be dazzled by celebrities like anyone else. I do think tho, the minute a celebrity (who shows an interest in Krishna consciousness) becomes obnoxious or offensive, the devotees would no longer give a hoot about them. If anything, they would not be the least bit dazzled, because while that may have been there minutely, as devotees may be tinged in this way, but predominately they just get happy to see someone who is famous is taking to Krishna consciousness. There is always the underlying desire that once this celebrity becomes purified, they will help spread Prabhupada's teachings and the MahaMantra. Always. For myself, I guess this may be a confession, but for decades I did not realize how much of a devotee George Harrision was. A couple of times (long ago) I even called him a fringie (please forgive me George and the assembled Vaisnavas). I only knew what I had been told. A few years prior to his passing over, I began to reconsider, but still did not know much about him at all. So its not as if I was dazzled, as living in the ashrama I was taught he was 'somewhat' of a devotee, but his music, etc., was not for us and just for the 'karmi's. Not that I agree with that now, but as a new devotee I didn't know enough to argue. As an older devotee, I just didn't think about him much. Sooner or later everything we have made a mistake over comes to a head and must be reevaluated. So as I said, I 'started' to do this a little a few years prior to his passing. But when he passed, I did not expect it 'quite' that soon, was shocked, and wound up doing research into his spirutal life. I had no idea how fondly Srila Prabhupada thought of him! My memory is failng me at the moment; maybe I should go get some quotes. Nah, later. Anyhow, for exmaple, one devotee who is d to my newsletter sent an email. He said he was in England at the time George donated the Manor/temple to us, and that he himself heard Prabhuapda say (rough quote) "George has given Krishna a home in the material world, so Krishna will give George a home in the spiriutal world." !! Another devotee spoke to my husband, said he talked with George, and George personally told him Prabhupada said for certain he (George) would go back to Godhead! There was so much information like that being revealed at the time. Which also birngs me to my next point. One reason many only know the fallen side of George and not his good and spiriutal qualities, is because he did not want them known. He did not want any glorificaiton. Even I once read a conversation where Prabhupada told him he had many followers, but George replied he did not want followers. So after his passing, that is when information about him became more easily attainable. Suddenly I was receiving quotese in the mail where Prabhuapda said George was more than his disciple, that Goerge did not need to take formal initiation, etc. When George was alive he would even preach in public on tv and such, especially in the beginning of the movement. He was giving his friends bead bags, etc. I had not realized it until after his passing, but he was pretty much one of us. Matter of fact, he was quite instrumental in getting the movement started in England! I felt offensive for viewing him as a fringie all those ummm decades actually, so in his honor I made a web page, a tribute to his leaving this world, and in hopes I can be forgiven. To those who think George Harrision was taking advantage of ISKCON or us, do the reseach, as that is not the case at all. To those who think all the other celebrities take advantage of devotees or ISKCON, well, first we are pretty hard to take advantage of. Ever live in a temple or even close by? It aint easy. lol But the more important point is that any degree of Krishna consciousness they achieve in this life is all that matters. So what if they later go in another direction. They have started. This is something Prabhuada taught us and I must admit, I dont see this to be part of Hindu philosophy or teachings, but please correct me if I am wrong, as I mean no offense. Simply that Prabhupada gave his mercy to anyone and never discriminated, even if they would only serve Krishna temporarily he saw it as progress in their spirutal life. They picked up where they left off, and if they do not progress further by the end of this life, they will again pick up where they left off next time around. So, there is no loss, only gain.

Are you speaking of signatures, or experiences? Because it is a commonly used devotee signature that is not meant in any arrogant way.

You're kidding? I know you're not, but that's a new one to me. Thanks for informing us. We have little patience for this Rajneesh. I don't even know who Osho is. I wonder how this rumor got started? And yes, if this is who they think we are part of, it is a great misunderstanding. Prabhupada gave us 4 regulative principles to follow, two of which are no illicit sex and no intoxication of any type, not even coffee. We have no connection with this other group in the slightest. Thanks.

Haribol, Well, my understanding is that we are practicing sanatana dharma or returing oursevles to our original, etenral and natural position with Krishna; whereas Hinduism is not a sanskirt word as I am sure you know, but a word to describe the culture of those who lived across the Sindu River. There are many religions within Hinduism itself, from Sivites to demi-god worship, Sikhs and more. I think most Hindu's who worship Krishna as God (as not all Hindus accept Krishna as God) are trying to, or are, practicing the same thing, in accordance to the individual. Clear as mud? I tried. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

LOL Nah, you're not.

Babru: Yes, but the point is that those celebs have been blessed by the association of devotees. Priitaa:Oh yes, but I was referring to George, that he made it btg anyway. He had the blessings of Prabhupada. Yet I do understand what you mean, which may be why he asked the devotees to come there the last 3 days. ============ Oops! I thought you were speaking in reference to what I posted, but I now think you were responding to Govindaram and not me. Sorry. (If I am mistaken, let me know.)

Where do you get this from? Prabhupada never spoke that way about them. I am wondering if maybe its because you are viewing celebrities not making any changes in their life. I dont know. What I do know is that Prabhupada was happy when these 'ants' could become purified and next had much power, due to connections and celebrity status, to spread the holy names around. Do you not believe George H. did it? He changed his life, even if he still had weaknesses he kept trying under much more difficult circumstances then most of us will ever have, and yet remembered to chant Hare Krishna when attacked, and later when leaving his body; which in turn guarantees one to return to Krishna. So it's best not to criticize him. However, if he can do it, any celeb can, its all a matter of desire. We should not look down on anyone, not even celebs. Everyone (or everyone who is a follower of Srila Prabhupada) recieves their empowerment from the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada. That is who is helping them spread the MahaMantra. Not that they do it from their own power, no. They have no power and we have no power either. It is Prabhupada's power that saves us, even the most fallen as Lord Caitanya has said, can be saved.

Oh yes, but I was referring to George, that he made it btg anyway. He had the blessings of Prabhupada. Yet I do understand what you mean, which may be why he asked the devotees to come there the last 3 days.

I think you are not the poster I was referring to when I said: "Sounds like some anonymous person is envious of ISKCON." If you notice, I followed it up with: "However, my comment is meant for the second small post that went out of the way to point this out, and not the first larger post." I was not offended by what you said (if you posted the second, larger post, which I think you did. Signatures would help clear up such mix-ups). I understood what you meant. It was the person who went out of their way to point out only one comment you made, to foucs on it and make it stand out like a sore thumb. My reply was to them. So not to worry, it wasn't intended for you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Please do not be offended. Tho I do wish to add that ISKCON devotees have visted India, often and regularly. What we practice is a different religion from Hinduism. We are not against Hindu's. Matter of fact, Haridahma is a Hindu and we all get along fine. Its merely a matter of understand Prabhupada's highest teachings. No need to be defensive. Thanks.

Thanks Babru prabhu, for posting that VNN editorial. I seldom go to VNN, or even chakra for that matter, so it was good to read this. I wonder how Cher feels about her sons involvement. It would be great if she was as open to this as she is to everything else. Maybe over time. Nice if she eventually included the chanting of Hare Krishna in her songs, but I have a hard time envisioning that, yet not impossible. Even Madona showed a picture of Baby Krishna in one of her movies. Unfortuantely she lost interest to a degree and is now very into Judiasm, which would be fine if she hasn't found Krishna first. Oh well, advancement is always made. Anyhow, I hope Cher is supportive and doesn't see us as a cult. Although sometiems we oursleves see it as a cult. ha But not the true knowledge, and that is what I am referring to. -- Enough of my run-on sentenced and paragraphs to an English teacher! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sorry gH, but what you posted is exactly what they are saing are false reports. After all, what they said here is also wrong: "Devotees hope the dying person will be soothed by the mantra and be sent into reincarnation with the words ringing in his ears." Actualy, what we hope is that the dying person does NOT have to reincarnate! Thou just these two parts, and the fact that he left us a large sum of money, are false reports. The rest are true! Please understand I mean no offnese. My previous link is not the only source of info that he did not have devotees around him at the 'moment' of leaving. It was also in Times of India, as well as certain Iskcon devotees know its true but don't want to burst anyone's bubble by coming forward. I have been sworn to secrecy so I tell no more, and its why I posted the nonbiased links instead. We dont like it, heck, I dont like it, but George did not have devotees at his side the 'minute' he left his body. But they were with him the last days, and really all that matters is that he succeeded in going back Home. I suspect we feel bad beause we want Prabhupada to get the credit and here's how I look at that. George died using Prabhupada's method to die, no other guru's method like SRF or Maharishi's, but Prabhuapda's. He focused on chating Hare Krishna and nothing else. And he still made sure to have his body wrapped in a HariNama chaddar, had neckbeads, tulasi leaf, and so on. These are all things he learned from his guru Srila Prabhupada. So while we may feel a little bad ISKCON did not get the credit, we can remind ourselves that in this way, Prabhupada did, cuz Prabhuapda was the only one whose method of dying George trusted fully, and used.

I dont know that most of us are Christians. Tho I suspect you mean before we became devotees. However, I learned more about Christ after becoming a devotee of Krishna than I ever knew before that time, or learned in church, or from Sunday School! /images/graemlins/smile.gif (Or Mosses too for that matter.) The fact is, if we really want to know about any great soul, we have to turn either to the Vedas or a pure deovtee, to shed light on them. Srlia Prabhupada ki jai!

Yes Thiest, I agree, this is the test. When we are faced with death that we must able to chant Hare Krishna. It would be nice to have devotees around us when we are about to die, but no one knows if that will happen. What if we have a heart attack, or a sudden intruder as George did, or are walking in the woods in the middle of nowhere? So this too is the test, that even if alone, we can chant at the time of death. Tho I hope am not alone and tested in this way, as that is a scary thought! Anyway, here is some info that George did not have devotees with him at the final moment, tho please note, I agree he asked for them to come there and to be with him the final days. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=15923 "According to sources close to Harrison, press reports that Hare Krishnas were present at his deathbed, that his ashes were spread on India's Ganges River and that he left $30 million to the Krishnas were all false." There also was a Times of India link with this info on it, but I could not open the page.

Sorry, this is not fact. Tho they were with him during the last days, but not the last moments. I read on an unbiased web site that at the time of death, there were no devotees with him. But really, why should it matter? Are we promoting ISKCON or Krishna.

Sounds like some anonymous person is envious of ISKCON. (However, my comment is meant for the second small post that went out of the way to point this out, and not the first larger post.) Actually, our parampara goes back to Krishna Himself and is nothing new. We may have converted, but what we converted to is eternal. Everyone is spirit soul, not the body.

Well then, thats not really whats meant by 'joining' ISKCON, at least not in this context. And, ya can't stop people from visting. /images/graemlins/smile.gif We should be happy for everyone who visits the temple, regardless of their bad habits. At least they have started on the path of spiriutal life.

Why not? Who here has not sinned? Anyone can join, but everyone, even those famous who move in, must give up their bad habits. I doubt he would move into a temple tho. But to think wealth or fame would have anything to do with it - well, that has never been anything I've ever seen. With that said, I never heard that her son was showing an interest in Krishna consciousness. Does anyone have an editorial to prove it? Thanks.

Personally, I don't view real Christianity the way it is presented by 'modern' Christians who can be recognized by, as you have experienced it appears, their criticism of Hindu's. Modern so-called Christian teachings are not the original teachings of Christ. We need to give up any preconceived ideas about him that 'they' have put in our heads. There is a joke that if Christ ever returned, he'd go straight to the Hare Krishna temple. /images/graemlins/smile.gif (First devotees use to say it, but years later it was actually in a movie! ha) Any Christian who criticizes a Hindu-Vaisnava does not understand Christ. Therefore, I dont waste my time with them, the red sea or anything else. Christ was a Vaisnava, and probably Moses too. Any Christian who can't at least be open minded to that, I don't bother with. Why irriate our own minds, or our spirutal advancement? I've got better things to argue over. lol Besides, best to leave the fundamentalists alone because some religion is better than no religion, and without their ten commandments, it is highly possible many more crimes would take place!

And GovindaRam, Why can't celebs help spread the Holy Name? Otherwise, why did Prabhupada bother with them? His interest in them was only to push on the chanting of Hare Krishna. He was very pleased with George H because he spread the holy name to so many. It is not limited to him. Anyone can become a devotee, even a celebrity. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

In my research on Christ in India, I ran acorss some proof of Moses. But it will not be accepted by most Christians, or at least not the fundamentalists. Anyway, it said that Moses still has a tomb/samadhi in, I think it was Kashmir. If I had more time I would get the quote, but sorry, I don't.

"Chanting Mahamantra: Mick Jagger, Bob Dylan, Tom Petty, Chrissie Hind, Boy George, Lady Madonna, " Tom Petty? Tell me more. (I know he was a friend of George's and wonder if George had any significant influence over him.) Madona is Jewish now. Dylan is Christian. Also, oh her name slips my mind but I know it! Anyway, she was the little girl in the movie ET, now an adult. About a year or two ago, she went to the LA temple and danced in kirtana. I think also went to the gift shop. Can't believe I forget her name, but someone here will know it. Next, how about those who 'still' are into the MahaMantra. That is, its nice to read of those who gave it a shot, but many of them are no longer interested. So who is still interested, who lost interest, and what new celebs can help spread the holy name now?

I don't know a thing about Boy George, other than, well you know. But his music never did much for me. That is, never gave spiriutal inspiration or moved me forward. Tho I must admit I did not listen to music at the time he became famous because I all ready was a devotee living a different lifestyle. But you may understand how sometimes you accientally hear some, and that was my conclusion of it. Whereas I found George Harrisions "My Sweet Lord," and countless others he wrote, much more spiriutallly advanced. Even his song "Something," was originally written about Krishna! Anyhow, as for Boy George's escapades, I haven't a clue what they are. Maybe someone else here can describe them. I wish Boy George well, but he's not my style I guess. Most of his music is not directly about Krishna (to the best of my understanding). Whereas most of G. Harrision's is. He wasn't afraid to come right out and say Krishna is God. Of course G.Harrision had the direct associaiton of the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada, and Prabhuada gave him the specific instruction to sing about Krishna. Prabhupada said to him, you don't have to close the business, just write songs about Krishna. So Sriman George (Harrision) followed that instruction. A a large part of succesful spiriutal life is following the instruction of guru. (Ok, just realized how much I posted to this thread. Sorry. I'm having too much fun I guess. lol Well, I know a lot of this subject, due to research shortly 'after' his passing.)