anadi

The CE. [The Catholic Encyclopedia, cited as CE.( fifteen volumes and<O:p</O:p index, published under the Imprimatur of Archbishop Farley; New<O:p York, Robert Appleton Co., 1907-9.)] says:<O:p</O:p "It is easy to understand how numerous would be the readings of a text transcribed as often as the Bible, and, as only one reading can represent the original, it follows that all the others are necessarily faulty. Mill estimated the variants of the New Testament at 30,000, and since the discovery of so many MSS. unknown to Mill, this number has greatly increased." (CE. iv, 498.) <O:p</O:p The "canonical" books of the New Testament, as of the Old, are full of contradictions and confusions of text, to the present estimate of 150,000 and more "variant readings," as is well known and admitted. <O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p Who, then, is "inspired" to distinguish true from false readings, and thus to know what Jesus Christ and his entourage really said and did, or what some copyist's error or priest's forgery make them say or do, falsely? <O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p Of the chaos and juggling of sacred texts in the Great Dioceses of Africa, CE. says:<O:p</O:p "There never existed in early Christian Africa an official Latin text known to all the Churches, or used by the faithful to the exclusion of all others. The African bishops willingly allowed corrections to be made in a copy of the Sacred Scriptures, or even a reference, when necessary, to the Greek text. With some exceptions, it was the Septuagint text that prevailed, for the Old Testament, until the fourth century. In the case of the New, the MSS (manuscripts) were of the Western type. On this basis there arose a variety of translations and interpretations. ... Apart from the discrepancies to be found in two quotations from the same text in the works of two different authors, and sometimes of the same author, we now know that of several books of Scripture there were versions wholly independent of each other." (CE. i, 193.)<O:p</O:p <O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p

Please feel free to call it as you like, the purpose of it remains: keep it focused on the topic.

"The Gospel has come down to us," says Bishop Irenaeus (about 185 A.D.), which the apostles did at one time proclaim in public, <O:pand, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us inthe Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. ... For,after our Lord rose from the dead [the apostles] departed to the ends of the earth, preaching the glad tidings of the good things sent from God to us, who indeed do equally and individually possess the Gospel of God." (Iren., Adv. Haer, Bk. III, ch. i; ANF. i, 414.) <O:p Bishop Irenaeus and Bishop Papias have both averred that the<O:p</O:p Christ lived to old age (even as late as 98-117 A.D.), flatly<O:p</O:p denying thus as "heresy" the Gospel stories as to his crucifixion<O:p</O:p at about thirty years of age. <O:p The Catholic Encyclopedia, cited as CE.( fifteen volumes and<O:p</O:p index, published under the Imprimatur of Archbishop Farley; New<O:p York, Robert Appleton Co., 1907-9.) says "We have New Testament MSS. written not much more than 300 years after the composition of the books"; <O:p and it admits:<O:p "And in them we find numerous differences, though but few of them <O:pare important." (CE. xiv, 526.) In this CE. <O:p At another place, and speaking much more nearly the truth, contradicts itself, saying:<O:p "The existence of numerous and, at times, considerable differences<O:p between the four canonical Gospels is a fact which has long been<O:p noticed and which all scholars readily admit. ... Those evangelical<O:p</O:p records (SS. Matthew, Mark, Luke) whose mutual resemblances are<O:p obvious and striking, and ... the narrative (that of St. John)<O:p</O:p whose relation with the other three is that of dissimilarity rather<O:p</O:p than that of likeness." (CE. vi, 658.) PS Special Guest said: - Keep it up. it is very important to expose these. Dear Special Guest - This might be true.

D B Cooper Jr said: <!-- v3 Arcade --><!-- /v3 Arcade --> ... The other night I watched a show saying that Elijah was not actually taken to heaven by chariots but by extraterrestials and that when Moses parted the Red Sea it was with an electromagnetic device ... Dear D B Cooper Jr your comments have nothing to do with scriptures, please keep it ...focused... on scriptures.

theist said: Do you have such time to spend on this project? Not me. I feel death hovering over me prepared to strike at any time. I must spend my time taking the essence from scriptures and if I have trouble finding such in some religious book then I must put it away and search for that essence in another. Dear theist, you are perfectly right, from your personal point of view. Keep up with your bhajan. About essence, namely help in bhajana, (as considered by advanced rupanugas, not raganugas) please read some... Passages from Manjari Svarupa Nirupana by Srila Kunja Bihari dasa Babaji Translated by Jagadananda das 10.1 Varieties of moods, varieties of ecstasies kRSNa-guNa-rUpa-ras, gandha-zabda-paraz, ye sudhA AsvAde gopI-gaN | tA sabAra grAsa-zeSe, Ani paJcendriya ziSye, se bhikSAy rAkhaye jIvan ||Caitanya-caritAmRta 3.14.49. The gopIs constantly relish the nectar of KRSNa’s form, his qualities, his taste, his fragrance, sound and touch; coming to beg from them the remnants of their feast are my mind, the mendicant, with the senses, his five ragged disciples, in the hope that they will be able to maintain their lives. Apane kari AsvAdane zikhAila bhakta-gaNe, prema-cintAmaNira prabhu dhanI | nAhi jAne sthAnAsthAna, yAre tAre kaJla dAn, mahAprabhu dAtA ziromaNi || CC 2.2.81. Tasting this sacred rapture himself, the Lord taught it to all the devotees. The Lord was rich with the jewels of prema; never discriminating as to the place or recipient, he gave them freely to whomever he met. He was the greatest of all philanthropists. The Supreme Lord, his abode and eternal associates, all lie beyond the range of our words and thoughts. The things of the transcendental realm can never be appreciated by the gross material senses. The material mode of goodness can reveal the nature of matter but not the transcendental realm; that is only revealed by the power of the internal potency or vizuddha-sattva, which has absolutely no material components. Another name of this state of pure goodness is vasudeva, from which the Supreme Lord VAsudeva makes his appearance. Until this state of pure goodness or vasudeva manifests individually in the heart of a devotee, he or she has no ability to comprehend the Lord; therefore the Lord does not appear there. The manifestation of pure goodness is possible only by the grace of an advanced devotee. kRSna-nAma kRSNa-guNa kRSNa-lIlA-vRnda | kRSNera svarUpa sama saba cidAnanda || CC 2.17.135. The UpaniSads refer to the Lord, whose form is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss, as the embodiment of sacred rapture. This rapture or relish is manifest in his names, his form, his qualities and his pastimes. “KRSNa’s name, KRSNa’s form as well as all his diversions are as transcendental as his essential nature.” If one has the fortune to come into contact with a saint who has made the Lord’s name, form, qualities and pastimes his very life and soul, and by his mercy hears all about the Lord’s glories, then just as fire acts on iron to make it gradually take on the properties of fire, so too such a person’s mind becomes gradually spiritualized by constant contact with this transcendental subject matter. It is possible to conceive the Lord along with his eternal associates in a mind thus purified. A devotee thus becomes competent to relish the ways and means of their sweet exchanges of love. Atmendriya-prIti-vAJchA tAre bali kAm | kRSNendriya prIti-vAJchA dhare prema nAm || kAma andha-tamaH, prema nirmala bhAskar || CC 1.4.165, 171. The desire to please one’s own senses is called lust, but the desire to satisfy the senses of the Supreme Lord is called prema or love. Lust is the darkness of ignorance whereas love is like the brilliant sun. hlAdinI dvArAy karena bhaktera poSaN || CC 1.4.60. sukha-rUpa KRSNa karena sukha AsvAdan | bhakta-gaNa sukha dite hlAdinI kAraN || CC 2.8.158. The heart is to be considered impure as long as it is filled with lust or egocentricity. With an impure mind, it is impossible to appreciate the happiness of contact with the Supreme Lord. It is thus necessary for the Supreme Lord’s pleasure-giving potency or hlAdinI-zakti to come and transform the living entity’s material lust into love after which it makes him eager to always experience the happiness of contact with him. The Lord’s name, form and pastimes are like the resplendent sun freed from the veil of any clouds; it shines down on the lust-darkened heart of the conditioned soul through hearing and chanting and dispels that darkness. Then that heart becomes effulgent with the divine light of prema. “Through his hlAdinI potency the Lord nourishes his devotees. He is the personification of joy and himself experiences happiness; his hlAdinI-zakti is the cause of the devotee’s enjoyment also.” Prema is the essential element in this internal, pleasure-giving potency of the Lord. Devotion is KRSNa’s hlAdinI potency mixed with the essence of his consciousness energy or saMvit-zakti. This essence is the particular desire favorable to the Lord which is the essential condition for devotion—the thoughts, moods or state of mind that are favorable to the pleasures of the Supreme Lord. Devotion implies service; the word AnukUlya (“favorable”) means service. Prema is the essential portion of the Lord’s internal potency and is therefore an item that is eternal, spiritual and full of sacred rapture. As a result, it is not possible to “produce” devotion as such in this world; rather, it makes its appearance in the heart of the fortunate soul who has been blessed by a devotee, being aided by his cooperative spirit. KRSNadAsa KavirAja, after stating that the essential portion of the hlAdinI potency is prema, goes on to say that the essence of prema is something called mahA-bhAva, “great feeling.” (hlAdinIr sAra prema, prema-sAra bhAva | bhAvera parAkaSThA, nAma mahA-bhAva || CC 1.4.68) Here we will discuss why bhAva has been indicated by the devotionally oriented scriptures as the very essence of love of God. If the Supreme Beauty, filled with desires and exultation, is experienced through a mental inclination or sentiment favorable to him, then that is called prIti or love. This favorable sentiment or love must be mixed with a particular dominant mood or taste, otherwise the execution of service will not prove successful. This is not just a vague scriptural statement, but can be seen practically in the world around us also. For example, a mother serves in the spirit of a mother and not as a wife, sister or daughter, etc., and thus her service to her child is successful. Love is the element which gives one the authority to serve the object of his love; this is something everyone understands. Service without love is nothing more than a superficial imitation; the object of such service is never made happy by it and the servitor also never finds real happiness through it. Nevertheless, even if one does have love, that love must take a particular shape in order for him to be able to engage in that service. A father or mother must have a sense of parental affection which gives shape to their love for their child and creates a situation favorable for serving him. If a servant has some spirit of affection other than that of servitude to his master, then the master will not derive full satisfaction from his service. If the relation of two friends is not mixed with the feeling of friendship (sakhya-bhAva), then many trespasses will be committed in the course of that relationship, which is also one of service. In the same way, if the attitude of a beloved to her lover is not mixed with the proper spirit of wife-hood and mistress-hood, then however intense her love for her mate, it will prove incapable of giving him complete satisfaction. These are facts that any person knowing the world can verify from his own experience. In the same way, loving devotion to the Lord has to take a particular form according to the major types of relation, viz., service, friendship, parental love or mistresshood, otherwise the devotee will never be able to attain service that is completely favorable to the Lord. The example given is that of LakSmI who, wanting to attain KRSNa in Vraja, performed difficult austerities, but was unable to achieve the fulfilment of her desires because she did not follow in the footsteps of the gopIs of VRndAvana; she did not accept their lead in rendering service to him. “Worshipping KRSNa in a sense of majesty is useless [for a rupanuga who follows the teachings of Ujvala Nilamani - the blazing sapphire, which is gopi bhava and especially RAdha bhava]; one will never attain Him [Gopi-natha], unless he follows the gopIs of VRndAvana.” (gopI-Anugatya vinA aizvarya-jJAne | bhajileha nAhi pAy vrajendra-nandane || CC 2.8.230) (put in the web by rasaraja dasa)

As we all know some of the divergent doctrines regarding the spiritual truths, have ensued with the advent of christianity. I would like to take under scrutiny some of their books, please help. For example in The Encyclopedia Biblica, cited as EB., four volumes; Adam & Charles Black, Londonlace, 1899; American Reprint, The Macmillan Co., New York, 1914 it is written "To compose 'letters' under another name, especially under the name of persons whose living presentment, or real or supposed spiritual equipment, it, was proposed to set before the reader, was then just us usual as was the other practice of introducing the same persons into narratives and reporting their 'words' in the manner of which we have examples, in the case of Jesus, in the Gospels, and, in the case of Peter, Paul, and other apostles, in the Acts." (EB. iii, 3481.) See: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/forgery_in_christianity/chapter_5.html>> In wisdomworld http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/hypatia.html is written that In the 300 years which had elapsed since his (Jesus) death, a large number of manuscripts had come to light, all claiming to be authentic. In regard to those which were extant in the third century, Faustus, the Manichean, had written: “Every one knows that the Evangeliums were written neither by Jesus Christ, nor his apostles, but long after their time by some unknown persons, who, judging well that they would hardly be believed when telling things they had not seen themselves, headed their narratives with the names of the Apostles or of disciples contemporaneous with the latter. By the fourth century it became necessary for the Church to decide which of the many Gospels then in circulation were to be accepted as authentic.”

To understand any system of religion, of any sect or creed, one should go deep and investigate how came into being the books, that religion relies on, i.e. who are their authors, and possible borowed influences. According to the vedic standard a book can convey the spiritual knowledge, if its author, had spiritual realisation of the spiritual reality (conection with the Lord, a process to attain a relation with the Lord, attainment of the described ultimate goal). One should know, what one is putting one’s confidence in, because confidence is the fundament of any endeavor, which doesn’t mean that any endeavor, may be the proper one. Anyway, anyone endeavors according one’s qualification. So … we are called to qualifiy. Please feel confortable to take any religion you want and present the origins of their books, and their authors, based on evidences, which are liabel to be questioned..

One should not think, that this would be an evidence, that one should not hear about the pastimes of the gopis with Krishna. The prerequisite is that in the begining one should have faith that these are the transcendental plays of the Lord in His sweetest, original Form, with His beloved girls on the level of shuddha sattva vishesh atma. That means that there is no such prerequisite like that one should first get rid of lust and other anarthas and than one can hear or read about that. We can find evidence for the above said in SB 10.33.39 vikriditam vraja vadhubir idam ca visnoh sraddhanvito 'nusrnuyad atha varnayed yah bhakim param bhagavati pratilabhya kamam hrd-rogam asv apahinoty acirena dhirah Anyone who faithfully hears or describes the Lord's playful affairs with the young gopi's of Vrindavana will attain the Lord's pure devotional service. Thus he will quickly become sober and conquer lust, the disease of the heart.

From Bhakti Sandarbha Anuccheda 283 16 Now will be considered worship of the Lord (arcana), which begins with the invitation (avahana) to the Lord to appear. If one has faith in the path of worship, one should take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master (first anga of bhakti - guru pada-ashraya)and ask questions of him (fifth anga of bhakti - bhajana riti niti prashana). This is described in these words of Srimad Bhagavatam (11.3.48): "Having obtained the mercy of his spiritual master, who reveals to the disciple the injunctions of Vedic scriptures, the devotee should worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the particular personal form of the Lord the devotee finds most attractive."*** 17 Although in the opinion of Srimad-Bhagavatam the path of worshipping the Deity, as it is described in the Pancaratras and other scriptures, is not compulsory, and without engaging in Deity worship one may attain the final goal of life by engaging in even only one of the nine processes of devotional service, processes that begin with surrender, nevertheless, in the opinion of they who follow the path of Narada Muni and other great sages, by accepting initiation from a bona fide spiritual master one attains a relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, a relationship established through the feet of one's spiritual master, and when one is thus initiated, the process of Deity worship is compulsory. 18 Therefore in the Agama-sastra it is said: "Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures know this process as diksa.* 19 "It is the duty of every human being to surrender to a bona fide spiritual master. Giving him everything: body, mind and intelligence, one must take a Vaisnava initiation from him."* 20 The words "divyam jnanam" (transcendental knowledge) here refers to the descriptions of the Lord's transcendental form in sacred mantras. Chanting those mantras establishes a relationship with the Supreme Lord. This is explained in the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda's description of the eight-syllable mantra. ... Srila Rupa Gosvami says in the 4-th anga of bhakti: Sadhu marga-anusharah, i.e. "No path can be ascertained by any one individual. All the previuous mahajanas following in consecutive succession have made the path of bhakti neat and clean."

eta bali' apana-krta gita eka gahila preme prabhu sva-haste tanra mukha acchadila Saying this, Ramananda Raya began to sing a song he had composed, but Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, out of the ecstasy of love of Godhead, immediately covered Ramananda's mouth with His own hand. "When we are unable to fulfill our material desires, there is certainly sorrow and confusion. This may be described as vivarta. But in spiritual life there is no sorrow, inebriety or imperfection. Srila Ramananda Raya was expert in realizing the spiritual activities of Srimati Radharani and Krsna, and Ramananda's spiritual experience was placed before Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as he inquired whether the Lord approved his realization of spiritual truth. There are three books prominent in this connection. One was written by Bhakta dasa Baula and is called Vivarta-vilasa. Another was compiled by Jagadananda Pandita and is called Prema-vivarta. Sri Ramananda Raya's book is called Prema-vilasa-vivarta. The Vivarta-vilasa by Bhakta dasa Baula is completely different from the other two books. Sometimes a university student or professor tries to study these transcendental literary works and attempts to put forth a critical analysis from the mundane view, with an end to receiving degrees like a Ph.D. Such realization is certainly different from that of Ramananda Raya." From a translation and commentary by SBV Svami Maharaja

Afirmation: -- b) It's a popular myth that Madhva's connection to Vyasa is that of 'siksa.' -- Reply: No, actually its a fact as is recorded in his biographies. Vyasa did not initiate Madhva into pancaratrika diksha and there is no evidence anywhere to suggest this. Simply because the word diksha has been used in Gaura-ganodesa-dipika does not mean he has recieved pancaratrika mantra diksha from Vyasa. Diksha means to implant divya-jnanam, and that can be performed through siksha. This is the case as is confirmed in Madhva's biographies. Any other idea is speculative and imaginative. Hey... Maybe Madhva received siddha pranali from Vyasa, why not? Can anybody help with a scriptural quotation, where it is stated, that there is no need of diksa, because shiksa is doing the same thing? Please only scriptural quotation.

This is true, this is Kunti's opinion on one side. Taking into account that the goal of our sadhana is to attain the stage of bhava bhakti, according to Srila Rupa Gosvami, I remembered in this connection how he describes the symptoms of the stage of bhava bhakti: kSAntir avyartha-kAlatvaM viraktir mAna-SUnyatA ASA-bandha samutkaNThA nAma-gAne sadA-ruci... SamutkaNThA is the intense longing for one’s desired object of attainment. The desire to serve Sri Krishna becomes the obsession of his heart. Hier ASA-bandha – Sri KRSNa will certainly bestow His mercy upon me - means "to apply one’s mind very diligently in bhajana with this firm faith (steadfast hope that KRSNa will bestow His mercy)". So this stage of bhava bhakti, which should have been attained by a guru, shows us that helplesness is not the characteristic of a vaishnava. Helplesness is not karpanye from sad anga saranagati. A vaishnava knows that now, every time now, Krishna will bless me with His darshan.

I appreciate your sincerity. I have been failing to follow our spiritual principles for a good while. I appreciate his sincerity. He and "harikesh" preached heavily agaisnt Gaudya Math and Srila BVNM. They missed "The heart of Krishna" by Srila Bhakti Pramoda Puri Maharaja. kriti sadya bhavet sadya bhava sa saddhana abhida nitya siddhasya bhavasya prakatyam hridi sadyatam The ones who practice sadhana bhakti is very rare in this world.

song of SAH-lo-muhn Authorship and Origin: Solomon is named in the book itself as the author in version 1:1. This would be around 970 - 930 B.C.. Overview and Significant sections This is a very unique book in the Old Testament, and it makes no direct theological statements, although some believe some may be implied or allegorical. It speaks of the love between a man (the lover) and a women (the beloved). It was probably put in the Hebrew canon because it's author was Solomon, and was frequently read during the Passover. There is a great debate over how to understand or interpret this book. Some see it as allegorical to God's relationship to Israel. Later Christian interpreters applied it to the relationship between Christ and the Church. There is however no objective way of interpreting the literal meanings of these words. Another approach is to view the book as a celebration of love as God intended it to be experienced between a man and a women. To others it is just a collection of love poems. It was probably written by Solomon while traveling in Israel's northern villages to a local village girl, whom he later comes back to and carries to Jerusalem to be one of his wives. Source: http://netministries.org/Bbasics/BBSong.htm what says guru shastra sadhu? Who is the "Lord" in that poem that the Queen is addressing? Is it the unknown Allmighty? Is it Krishna? And is the Queen Srimati Radharani? Or is Salomon as Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the unknown God as Krishna? I expect some speculations and their pramana.

Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura has said, "I came to give some valuable conceptions in raganuga-bhava - but I could not do so. Most of my life was spent in sweeping and cutting jungles." Preaching is like this - and it is also so essential. Without preaching vaidhi-bhakti, that main thing cannot be given. Srila Sarasvati Thakura used to say that when the mayavada philosophy (becoming one in all respects with an impersonal God) is present, there can be no preaching of bhakti - so we will have to cut the jungles of atheism, mayavada, sahajiyaism and other non-Vedic philosophies. We will have to spend time defeating their arguments. from a lecture by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja, at the ISKCON Juhu Beach temple in Bombay, 1993.

One who learns the wrong way and even propagates "that" is more dangerous than the one who has no idea. In the spiritual world there is no idea that would make the spiritual living entities to reject Krishna as the supreme enjoyer. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says: MahA-ViSNu, who is an avatara of SankarSaNa, situates Himself in the jIva-Sakti, and in His ParamAtmA svarUpa, He manifests the jIvas who have the potential to be involved in the material world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of mAyA, and unless they attain the shelter of the hlAdini-Sakti of the cit-Sakti by BhagavAn’s mercy, the possibility of their being defeated by mAyA remains. So there is no illusion that would make the spiritual living entities in Goloka to forget his Krishna Consciousness, and more than that, they are under the shelter of the spiritual loving potency of Sri Krishna , hladini shakti. This is also explained by Srila Jiva Gosvami right in the begining of his Bhakti Sandharba: paramaatma vaibhava ganane ca tatasta shakti rupanam apianadi paratattva jnana sansaga abhava maya tat vaimukya labda cidraga avrita sad svarupa jnananam. Jiva is a manifestation of the vaibhava (oppulence) of the paramaatma (which is situated in jiva shakti, outside of Goloka, namely in tatasta shakti, the marginal energy not the internal, antaranga energy). Cit eka rasanam, means that jiva is conscious by nature but jiva's paratattva jnana, the knowledge of the Supreme is sansaga abhava. Here Srila Jiva Gosvami uses the vaisheshika darshana of kanada rishi to define the position of the jiva. He uses the category abhava which means non existence in connection to sansaga, which means coexistence. In the vaisheshika philosophy the non-existence, abhava, is of two types: 1. anya-anya abhava : mutual non-existence, used to identify an object as different from another 2. sansaga abhava : the non-existence of co-existence The sansaga abhava is of three types: 1. praga sansaga abhava – antecedent non-existence of co-existence; An imperfect material example: a notepad and a biography. There was an antecedent non-existence of their co-existence before the biography was written in the notepad. When the biography was written in the notepad the non-existence of their co-existence came to an end, and the destruction of this non-existence of their co-existence is considered eternal, which means their coexistence is eternal. 2. pradvangsa sansaga abhava – non-existence of co-existence brought up by destruction. An imperfect material example: A pot which is made of clay is destroyed. In this way the non-existence of their co-existence is eternal. 3. atyanta sansaga abhava – the absolute non-existence of co-existence, has no beginning and no end. The paratattva jnana of the jiva-shakti is sansaga abhava, which means, there is a non-existence of co-existence between the living entity and his krishna consciousness. If it would be atyanta sansaga abhava, it would mean that jiva was never krishna conscious and would never be. If it would be pradvangsa sansaga abhava it would mean that jiva - was krishna conscious - his krishna consciousness was destroyed - for the rest of his existence jiva will never be krishna conscious or - jiva was in Goloka, he felt from Goloka and will never come back. Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavat-gita that the jivas that come to him will never come back in the material world, which means that krishna consciousness of the jiva once it is attained will be eternal, so this also means that Srila Jiva Gosvamipada wanted to say that the non-existence of the krishna consciousness of jiva is praga sansaga abhava: - there was an antecedent non-existence of krishna consciousness of the jiva - the non existence of his krishna consciousness will come to an end - the end of the non-existence of his krishna consciousness will be eternal (inspiration from Italian lecture on Bhakti Sandharba by Srila Bhaktivedanta Aranya Maharaja)

What is the meaning of vapu? What is the meaning of association with sadhu? What is the meaning of diksa mantra? What is the meaning of Bhagavatam? If the path is transcendental why do you limit it by physical association? Answer by Srila Bhaktivedanta Aranya Maharaja in Vraja Mandala Parikrama 2001: Because it is transcendental therefore any transcendetal thing, comes from transcendental source; like harinama, diksa mantras are transcendental hari katha is transcendental, srimad bhagavatam is transcendental; so transcendental things come from transcendental source. Everything in THIS world is material! So, where it will come from? Only when any realized person descende in this world and is carying bhakti-shakti with them, than you can receive what is transcendental. When a pure devotee speaks, mixed within his voice are the safron particle of the lotus feet of Krsna, says Srimad Bhagavatam; so, sound has 4 dimensions: vaikari, madya, para, pashianti. First dimension is the outer portion of the sound, what you speak, what you hear, and what is going in your tape recorder. Next two levels are on the subtle platform of the mind and intelligence. The fourth level is called shabda-brahma and goes from soul to soul." The transcendental sound can be uttered by the realized soul and imbibe the audiance with seva vasana (the seed of the desire to serve the DIVINE COUPLE- if the one that utters the sound is a RUPA-ANUGA.) Only a sat guru (the one that have seen Krsna face to face) can give the transcendetal sound. He is the only one who can give real initiation through the transcendental sound in Hari-nama and diksa (Gopala-mantra, Kama-gayatri-mantra, Brahma Gayatri-mantra...) but bhaktis tu bhagavad bhakta sangena parijayate SAT-SANGA prapyate pumbhih SUKRITI purva sancite The inclination for bhakti is awakened by the association with the devottes of the Lord And the association with the pure devotees (SAT SANGA) can be attained by the accumulated effect of SUKRITI (eternal pious activities) performed over many life times. (Brihan Naradia Purana 4.33)

Sorry, your ignorance is unbeatable, because you pose as the knower of the letters of "prabhupada", ...as for your understanding... just try to prove your point: don't say bible is crappp, and ...how crappp, and the church theaches it in the name of the unknown God, and the "holy spirit" who alegedly inspired it. In Srimad Bhagavatam by the description of the material time we find a short description of the partial devastation of the univers. The so called “Revelation of John” touches a little this description, but the lacking of transcendental knowledge of the correctors (so called editors) and the pauline doctrine twisted altogether the meaning of the partial devastation using it in their exclusivist doctrine of the choosed ones, (the essenens with the doctrine of the choosed people of the tribes of Israel and the pauline church with the doctrine of the choosed people of Jesus) : Quote SB 3.11.26-34 “ In the creation, during Brahm's day, the three planetary systems — Svarga, Martya and Patala — revolve, and the inhabitants, including the lower animals, human beings, demigods and Pita's, appear and disappear in terms of their fruitive activities. In each and every change of Manu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead appears by manifesting His internal potency in different incarnations, as Manu and others. Thus He maintains the universe by discovered power. At the end of the day, under the insignificant portion of the mode of darkness, the powerful manifestation of the universe merges in the darkness of night. By the influence of eternal time, the innumerable living entities remain merged in that dissolution, and everything is silent. This verse is an explanation of the night of BrahmA, which is the effect of the influence of time in touch with an insignificant portion of the modes of material nature in darkness. The dissolution of the three worlds is effected by the incarnation of darkness, Rudra, represented by the fire of eternal time which blazes over the three worlds. These three worlds are known as Bhur, Bhuvah and Svah (Patala, Martya and Svarga). The innumerable living entities merge into that dissolution, which appears to be the dropping of the curtain of the scene of the Supreme Lord's energy, and so everything becomes silent. When the night of BrahmA ensues, all the three worlds are out of sight, and the sun and the moon are without glare, just as in the due course of an ordinary night. The devastation takes place due to the fire emanating from the mouth of Sankarsana, and thus great sages like Bhrigu and other inhabitants of Maharloka transport themselves to Janaloka, being distressed by the warmth of the blazing fire which rages through the three worlds below. At the beginning of the devastation all the seas overflow, and hurricane winds blow very violently. Thus the waves of the seas become ferocious, and in no time at all the three worlds are full of water. It is said that the blazing fire from the mouth of Sankarsana rages for one hundred years of the demigods, or 36,000 human years. Then for another 36,000 years there are torrents of rain, accompanied by violent winds and waves, and the seas and oceans overflow. These reactions of worlds. People forget all these devastations of the worlds and think themselves happy in the material progress of civilization. This is called maya or "that which is not." The Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead, lies down in the water on the seat of Ananta, with His eyes closed, and the inhabitants of the Janaloka planets offer their glorious prayers unto the Lord with folded hands. Thus the process of the exhaustion of the duration of life exists for every one of the living beings, including Lord BrahmA. One's life endures for only one hundred years, in terms of the times in the different planets. The one hundred years of BrahmA's life are divided into two parts, the first half and the second half. The first half of the duration of BrahmA's life is already over, and the second half is now current. “ Sorry, your ignorance is unbeatable.

quote: -- The word mAyA refers to the Sakti that illuminates KRSNa’s identity in all the three worlds, namely, the cit-jagat, acit-jagat, and jIva-jagat -- jagat means world cit jagat means spiritual world acit jagat means material world jiva jagat means what ? What world left, besides the two? The buffer zone between the cit and acit worlds, namely karana jala, the marginal world. So, jiva jagat is the marginal world.

8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. That the drama presented in "revelation" of the said John is not acted in the spiritual world (vaikuntha), as some "new-age yogi" pretend, can be understood also from the above passage. 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. But still the enacted drama is presented as being in vaikuntha: "9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God" And here, it is supposed to be found the information about God, that is why "the revelation" is a scripture, and as such has its place in the bible.

Here we see the way the sect of Essenes were thinking about the end of the world, about the "choosed ones". 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. And here we see the added part which reflect the Paul's doctrine, of the "choosed ones": 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Is this scripture, or politics? As theistic understanding: his "followers" should not be offensive to the Bible as it is in pursuance of the vedic version. Nice pursuance of the vedic version!

How can you say there is no need for milk in the Goloka? That milk is not like this of this world. The cows are in a mixed rasa of dasya and vatsalya rasa. This is the transcendental mellow of some living entities. And they serve Krishna in this way. I don't take the time to explain all your defectuos thinking. But you should understand that the vedas in vaikuntha are not books, but personalities, and in goloka vrindavan they accepted the mood of the gopis and became the sruti-cary-gopis. Your speculation that gopis write poems is unheard. There is no need in the spiritual world for books. Every word is a song and every step a dance, and they are limitless expresions of prema. And whatever is said are the eternal expresions of one's love.

"But whenever there is information of God, that is scripture" Look for the information of God and His world in the plagiarism called bible. “5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.” And if it were the spiritual world how is it possible that we find a material identification with the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, which have to do only with the creation lila related to the material world? “5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him?! that sat upon the throne.” There are only speculations of people with no transcendental knowledge, that "think"....something...after the "fathers of the church" eliminated the little knowledge that was in that what was a "scripture". Look for the information of God and His world in the plagiarism called bible. As for your eyesight, and your descrimintion power, one has the forgive your ardous quoting in trying to prove a forgery as scripture. Even the buddhist pretend they have a scripture.

False information about God is bad than no information? No. At least there is an idea that there is something which is not of this world. Really? One who learned the wrong way is more difficult to be learned that the one, did learned at all. What is the information about the "Big Unknown" which is undescribed in the bible, and the pauline doctrine? Very mangnanimous, and for a theistic understanding should be sound enough, to put the bible, a sheere fraud, as part of the vedic literature. "I have understood that one obtains supreme spiritual benefit by drinking the liquid rasa of sri krishna nama with great faith, so I will chant Sri Nama when I have understood sambhanda jnana very clearly. Babaji:That is the best way. You must have a sound understanding of sambhanda jnana." from Jaiva Dharma Ch4 Vaisnava Dharma is nitya dharma