anadi

Dear bhaktatraveler dandavat pranam, 1. I am not initiated by any guru from Radha Kunda, but I highly esteem their knowledge of the scripture by which they preserve the traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism as taught by the empowered representants of Mahaprabhu the teaching whose core is the raga-anuga sadhana which make a Vaishnava to be a Gaudiya, and I alos highily esteem their one pointedness and their renunciation 2.The arguments presented by bhakta Devarsi are wrong. Here it is the evidence: He said:<o:p></o:p> And as for whatever else you may have wrote, I am sorry, but you immediately started to define Bhakti narrowly as Suddha Bhakti, and there again was immediately my proof that you have a smarta mentality,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But :<o:p></o:p> The definition of Bhakti (as) Shuddha Bhakti is not a “narrow” definition, but the true definition of Bhakti. When a (Gaudiya) Vaishnava speaks o bhakti he means always shuddha bhakti, not aropa siddha bhakti, or sanga siddha bhakti.<o:p></o:p> This definition of bhakti was given by Srila Rupa Gosvami. <o:p></o:p> If in his conception the using as evidence for the Truth (in a philosophical argument) of Gaudiya shastra as delineated by the empowered representatives of Sri Caitanya is a smarta mentality, than his idea of Smarta is based on a false interpretation of the notion which may have been distorted in the books he uses as evidence for the Truth.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Definition of smarta:<o:p></o:p> smarta - one of a group of brahmans who uphold nonsectarian orthodoxy according to the Shankara Vedanta <st1:place><st1>:PlaceType>school</st1>:PlaceType> of <st1>:PlaceName>Hinduism</st1>:PlaceName></st1:place><o:p></o:p> Adi Shankara is the Hindu philosopher whose tradition is followed by Smarta Brahmins<o:p></o:p> The three sampradayas (traditions) of Brahmins, especially in South India are the Smarta sampradaya, the Sri-vaishnava sampradaya and the Madhva sampradaya.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> He also said:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You simply need to get to the point where you can see that the person who responds in even the smallest way to a preaching Acarya and hears and chants abit, then goes back to their occupation in the modes is engaged in BHAKTI. Then maybe we could have a conversation in the future. Otherwise your mind is lost swimming in an ocean of intellectual concepts, while your heart seems blinded by smarta attitude. This is especially telling when you say things like Srila Prabhupada was preaching against DVD when he first came to the west. That shows your lack of knowledge of his preaching and what he wrote. My god, he gave direct instructions in his Dehli Bhagavatam first canto from the early 60's that DVD was part of the Krsna Consciounsess movement.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But<o:p></o:p> he just miss-read what I wrote:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> And now comes SB Narayan M ... following "Prabhupada" and says that we have to follow (daivi) varna-ashram dharma, although in the beginning of his preaching in West, was against it and preached Shuddha Bhakti.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It is SB Narayan M. who in the beginning preached we should become beggars like Raghunatha Das Gosvami. He also gave the concession that one can stay married but he also added that the one who is not married should not marry… but he never said we should implement (daivi) varnashram dharma, but that we should always keep in mind we should became like Mahaprabhu, like the Gosvamis from Vrindavan – nishkincan, there is no other way that the mind will become one pointed at the lotus feet of the Divine Couple – yugala kishor. "Prabhupada" said that this teaching of Mahaprabhu and His empowered representatives we should not follow.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> See also the post #3 from this thread where GuestCBhati said:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Hare Krsna,All prabhus This is the same NM that just a few yrs ago said we don't need interest in DVD? Wow, what an about face, I saw a transcript of a lecture/conversation for NM where he sited Ramananda Raya's conversation with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as evedence that we would reject the idea of DVD, Isa das, one of NM sadhika's, showed me the lecture transcript as the position that NM took on the subject. Bas. Even when I tryed to question Isa and show him the standard of Srila Prabhupada on the subject of DVD Isa would not have a converstion and shut me out saying it is what it is. He showed me, I read it, that's what it is. 3. According the evidence from the scripture a Gaudiya Vaishnava should not endeavor for (daivi) Varnashrma Dharma, (which is external - social) as other "preanching movements" do but for sadhana bhakti. And Srila Bhakrivinoda Thakura stated also in his dasa mula tattva: AmnAyaH prAha tattvaM harim iha paramaM sarva-zaktiM rasAbdhiM tad-bhinnAMzAMz ca jIvAn prakRti-kavalitan tad-vimuktAMz ca bhAvAd bhedAbheda-prakAzaM sakalam api hareH sAdhanaM zuddha-bhaktiM sadhyaM tat-pritim evety upadizati janAn gauracandraH svayaM saH <!--color--> 1. PramANa (evidence): The teachings of the Vedas received through guru-paramparA are known as AmnAya. The infallible evidence of the Vedas, of the smRti-zAstras headed by the Srimad-BhAgavatam, as well as evidence such as direct sense perception (pratyakSa), that concur with the guidance of the Vedas, are all accepted as pramANa (evidence). This pramANa establishes the following prameyas (fundamental truths): 2. Parama-tattva: Sri Hari alone is the Supreme Absolute Truth. 3. Sarva-zaktimAn<!--color-->: Sri Hari is the possessor of all potency. 4. rasAbdhiM<!--color--> - Akhila-rasAmRta-sindhu: He is the ocean of nectarean mellows. 5. tad-bhinnAMzAMz ca jIvAn <!--color--> Both the mukta (liberated) and baddha (conditioned) jIvas are His eternally separated parts and parcels. 6. prakRti-kavalitan <!--color-->- Baddha-jIvas: Conditioned souls are subject to the control and covering of mAyA. 7. tad-vimuktAMz ca bhAvAd <!--color-->- Mukta-jIvas: Liberated souls, only through bhAvA (divine love for The All Attractive)are really free from mAyA. 8. bhedAbheda-prakAzaM sakalam api hareH<!--color--> -Acintya-bhedAbheda-tattva: The entire universe, consisting of the conscious (cit) and unconscious (acit), is Sri Hari’s acintya-bhedAbheda-prakAza, that is to say, it is His manifestation which is inconceivably both different and non-different from Him. 9. sAdhanaM zuddha-bhaktiM <!--color-->- Zuddha-bhakti (pure devotional service) is the practice (sAdhana) to attain divine love of God - prema (not daivi varna-ashrm dharma) 10. sadhyaM tat-pritim <!--color--> - KRSNa-prIti: Transcendental love and affection for KRSNa is the one and only final object of attainment (sAdhya-vastu). evety upadizati janAn gauracandraH svayaM saH <!--color-->- SvayaM BhagavAn zri GaurAGgadeva (Sri KRSNa Caitanya) has herein instructed ten distinct tattvas (fundamental truths) to the faithful jIvas. 4. The ones who relized they are cheated, and realize they follow a yoga sistem which give no access to learning the meditation on the worshipable Deities, and saw they make no preogress, they left... <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p>

Dear bhaktatraveler dandavat pranam, 1. I am not initiated by any guru from Radha Kunda, but I highly esteem their knowledge of the scripture by which they preserve the traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism as taught by the empowered representants of Mahaprabhu the teaching whose core is the raga-anuga sadhana which make a Vaishnava sadhaka to be a Gaudiya, and I also highily esteem their one pointedness and their renunciation. 2.The arguments presented by bhakta Devarsi are wrong. Here it is the evidence: He said:<o:p></o:p> And as for whatever else you may have wrote, I am sorry, but you immediately started to define Bhakti narrowly as Suddha Bhakti, and there again was immediately my proof that you have a smarta mentality,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But :<o:p></o:p> The definition of Bhakti (as) Shuddha Bhakti is not a “narrow” definition, but the true definition of Bhakti. When a (Gaudiya) Vaishnava speaks of bhakti he means always shuddha bhakti, not aropa siddha bhakti, or sanga siddha bhakti.<o:p></o:p> This definition of bhakti was given by Srila Rupa Gosvami. <o:p></o:p> If in his conception the using as evidence for the Truth (in a philosophical argument) of Gaudiya shastra as delineated by the empowered representatives of Sri Caitanya is a smarta mentality, than his idea of Smarta is based on a false interpretation of the notion which may have been distorted in the books he uses as evidence for the Truth.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Definition of smarta:<o:p></o:p> smarta - one of a group of brahmans who uphold nonsectarian orthodoxy according to the Shankara Vedanta <st1:place></st1:place><o:p></o:p> Adi Shankara is the Hindu philosopher whose tradition is followed by Smarta Brahmins<o:p></o:p> The three sampradayas (traditions) of Brahmins, especially in South India are the Smarta sampradaya, the Sri-vaishnava sampradaya and the Madhva sampradaya.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> He also said:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You simply need to get to the point where you can see that the person who responds in even the smallest way to a preaching Acarya and hears and chants abit, then goes back to their occupation in the modes is engaged in BHAKTI. Then maybe we could have a conversation in the future. Otherwise your mind is lost swimming in an ocean of intellectual concepts, while your heart seems blinded by smarta attitude. This is especially telling when you say things like Srila Prabhupada was preaching against DVD when he first came to the west. That shows your lack of knowledge of his preaching and what he wrote. My god, he gave direct instructions in his Dehli Bhagavatam first canto from the early 60's that DVD was part of the Krsna Consciounsess movement.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But 1. the concepts presented are not intellectual but Gaudiya Vaishnava Concepts<o:p></o:p> 2. he just miss-read what I wrote:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> And now comes SB Narayan M ... following "Prabhupada" and says that we have to follow (daivi) varna-ashram dharma, although in the beginning of his preaching in West, was against it and preached Shuddha Bhakti.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It is SB Narayan M. who in the beginning preached we should become beggars like Raghunatha Das Gosvami. He also gave the concession that one can stay married but he also added that the one who is not married should not marry… but he never said we should implement (daivi) varnashram dharma, but that we should always keep in mind we should became like Mahaprabhu, like the Gosvamis from Vrindavan – nishkincan, there is no other way that the mind will become one pointed at the lotus feet of the Divine Couple – yugala kishor. "Prabhupada" said that this teaching of Mahaprabhu and His empowered representatives we should not follow.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> See also the post #3 from this thread where GuestCBhati said:<o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p> "This is the same NM that just a few yrs ago said we don't need interest in DVD? Wow, what an about face, I saw a transcript of a lecture/conversation for NM where he sited Ramananda Raya's conversation with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as evedence that we would reject the idea of DVD, Isa das, one of NM sadhika's, showed me the lecture transcript as the position that NM took on the subject. Bas. Even when I tryed to question Isa and show him the standard of Srila Prabhupada on the subject of DVD Isa would not have a converstion and shut me out saying it is what it is. He showed me, I read it, that's what it is." 3. According the evidence from the scripture a Gaudiya Vaishnava should not endeavor for (daivi) Varnashrma Dharma, (which is external - social) as other "preanching movements" do, but for sadhana bhakti. And Srila Bhakrivinoda Thakura stated also in his dasa mula tattva: AmnAyaH prAha tattvaM harim iha paramaM sarva-zaktiM rasAbdhiM tad-bhinnAMzAMz ca jIvAn prakRti-kavalitan tad-vimuktAMz ca bhAvAd bhedAbheda-prakAzaM sakalam api hareH sAdhanaM zuddha-bhaktiM sadhyaM tat-pritim evety upadizati janAn gauracandraH svayaM saH <!--color--> 1. PramANa (evidence): The teachings of the Vedas received through guru-paramparA are known as AmnAya. The infallible evidence of the Vedas, of the smRti-zAstras headed by the Srimad-BhAgavatam, as well as evidence such as direct sense perception (pratyakSa), that concur with the guidance of the Vedas, are all accepted as pramANa (evidence). This pramANa establishes the following prameyas (fundamental truths): 2. Parama-tattva: Sri Hari alone is the Supreme Absolute Truth. 3. Sarva-zaktimAn<!--color-->: Sri Hari is the possessor of all potency. 4. rasAbdhiM<!--color--> - Akhila-rasAmRta-sindhu: He is the ocean of nectarean mellows. 5. tad-bhinnAMzAMz ca jIvAn <!--color--> Both the mukta (liberated) and baddha (conditioned) jIvas are His eternally separated parts and parcels. 6. prakRti-kavalitan <!--color-->- Baddha-jIvas: Conditioned souls are subject to the control and covering of mAyA. 7. tad-vimuktAMz ca bhAvAd <!--color-->- Mukta-jIvas: Liberated souls, only through bhAvA (divine love for The All Attractive)are really free from mAyA. 8. bhedAbheda-prakAzaM sakalam api hareH<!--color--> -Acintya-bhedAbheda-tattva: The entire universe, consisting of the conscious (cit) and unconscious (acit), is Sri Hari’s acintya-bhedAbheda-prakAza, that is to say, it is His manifestation which is inconceivably both different and non-different from Him. 9. sAdhanaM zuddha-bhaktiM <!--color-->- Zuddha-bhakti (pure devotional service) is the practice (sAdhana) to attain divine love of God - prema (not daivi varna-ashrm dharma) 10. sadhyaM tat-pritim <!--color--> - KRSNa-prIti: Transcendental love and affection for KRSNa is the one and only final object of attainment (sAdhya-vastu). evety upadizati janAn gauracandraH svayaM saH <!--color-->- SvayaM BhagavAn zri GaurAGgadeva (Sri KRSNa Caitanya) has herein instructed ten distinct tattvas (fundamental truths) to the faithful jIvas. 4. The ones who relized they are cheated, and realize they follow a yoga sistem which give no access to learning the meditation on the worshipable Deities, and saw they make no preogress, they left... <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p>

Originally Posted by anadi<o:p></o:p> Bhakti is not related to any Institution. Bhakti is the relation between the Worshipable Deity and the devotee, and guru assist his disciple in making conscious that loving relation. When an Institution came into being, that is not because of bhakti, but because of material managerial considerations, and politics will come into life. Replay Sriman Anandi, you seem to have a tendency to define Bhakti to suit the moment.<o:p></o:p> This is a delicate matter left to the liberated Acharya, for in this case you are pronouncing a SMARTA position which is roundly rejected by the Bona Fide Acharyas of the Gaudiya line. Dear Bhakta Devarsi, dandavat pranam,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Sriman and Prabhu should be used only in relation to the Bhagavan Tattva, not in realation to Jiva Tattva.<o:p></o:p> Bhakti is always the relation between the Worshipable Deity and the devotee. If you want I can add the quality of that relation, and as you well know this is a serving relation. …Why? …Because of love divine (serving because of love). So, as long as one had not come yet to the platform of love divine, how can one speak about bhakti? And yet we can speak about bhakti. … What kind of bhakti… Sadhana bhakti, as delineated in Bhakti Rasa-amrita Sindhu.<o:p></o:p> The definition of bhakti is not a delicate matter left to the liberated Acharya. The definition of bhakti for the Gaudiya Vaishnavas has been clearly stated by Srila Rupa Gosvami. <o:p> </o:p> anyabhilashita shunyam / jnana karmady anavritam anukulyena krishnanu / shilanam bhaktir uttama<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Uttama Bhakti – pure divine loving service consists of activities –shilanam which are favorable anukulyena – give pleasure in the highest degree to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>.<o:p></o:p> It must be devoid shunyam of material desires anyabhilash, knowledge of the Absolutness of the Lord jnana, and karma – activities according varna-ashram dharma. And now comes SB Narayan M ... following "Prabhupada" and says that we have to follow (daivi) varna-ashram dharma, although in the beginning of his preaching in West, was against it and preached Shuddha Bhakti.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> gives a hint to Arjuna, that he should follow his khsatria dharma on the battle field, and not lament saying he would like to become a monk, by giving an example: Kings such as Janaka attained perfection solely by performance of karma (prescribed duties). Therefore, just for the sake of educating the people in general, you should perform your karma. (Bg. 3.20) In this connection there is a wide spread confusion regarding the meaning of karma. Bhagavan, Sri Krishna explains the meaning of karma : karmaṇo hy api boddhavyaḿ / boddhavyaḿ ca vikarmaṇaḥ akarmaṇaś ca boddhavyaḿ / gahanā karmaṇo gatiḥ (Bhagavat-gita 4.17) Karma, vikarma and akarma should be distinctively understood, because the karmic principle is profound. 1.Vikarma - acting against the prescribed duty , leads to a miserable destiny and destin-ation. 2. Akarma, not acting according the prescribed duty in varna-ashrama, can be - akarma – rejecting varna-ashrama dharma due to ignorance, which is vikarma. - akarma - rejecting varna-ashrama dharma and engaging in activities for the attainment of mukti (salvation - liberation from the bondage of this illusory material energy - maya) - akarma rejecting varna-ashrama dharma and engaging in devotional activities (bhakti) - for the attainment of divine love prema 3. Karma, is the action prescribed according <st1:city><st1:place>varNa</st1:place></st1:city> – social class and asram – religious order, which leads to the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord Hari. Nowadays karma is understood as general activity, which doesn’t corespond the original meaning of the vedic word. karmaṇy akarma yaḥ paśyed / akarmaṇi ca karma yaḥ sa buddhimān manuṣyeṣu / sa yuktaḥ kṛtsna-karma-kṛt (Bhagavat-gita 4.18 ) "That person endowed with discrimination power (intelligence) buddhimAn, sees inaction in karma and action in akarma. That person is linked (with the Lord/ spiritual world), although she acts (in this world)." The meaning is that for a transcendentaly situated person, situated beyond the modes of material nature, karma (action prescribed according varNa – social class and asram – religious order) is akarma, in the sense that karma is not related to the eternal nature of the soul: shuddha bhakti – loving service to The All Attractive, and such a person sees akarma – not following the prescribed duties of varNa-asharam system, which are due to the false indentification of the soul with temporary denominations of the material body, as real activity, when it is related to the real identity of the soul – a loving servant, friend, parent, or erotic lover of the Lord- which encompasses the nitya dharma – the real nature of the soul. Can you bring evidence for the idea that my writings come from a SMARTA ideology? Please also define SMARTA according Gaudiya Vaishnava teachings.

1. Bhakti is not related to any Institution. Bhakti is the relation between the Worshipable Deity and the devotee, and guru assists his disciple in making conscious that loving relation. When an Institution came into being, that is not because of bhakti, but because of material managerial considerations, and politics will come into life. 2. I will never change you by my posting, but I learn my self from your consideration points.

Originally Posted by anadi <o:p></o:p> No material qualities can qualify one for bhakti. Dear beggar, dandavat pranam, The Absolut truth and nothing but the truth? or The Absolut Truth is Krishna, or Divine Love - RAdha, or our love when it will be Absolut...? Bhakti comes from bhakti - sadhu, sadhu. Mrigari had association with sadhu.

Dear Brajeshwara, dandavat pranam, you are perfectly right:saranagati and the sisastikam should be a main push personally, I would also say one should not forget the prominent aspects of sadhana-bhakti 1. Sadhu-sanga (Associating with Saints) 2. Nama-kirtana (Chanting the Holy Names) 3. Bhagavat-shravan (Hearing the Srimad Bhagavatam) 4. Mathura-vasa (Living in the Holy Land of Mathura) 5. Sri-murtira-shradaya-sevan (Faithfully serving the Worshipable Form of the Lord). DVDs are more something for the ruleres, politicians that try to institutionalize bhakti, for the one's that want to change others, not themselves.

Dear beggar, dandavat pranam, you may also take into consideration that: 1. Ahimsa is a basic yoga principle, and has nothing to do with the invention of a DVD process of attaining the goal - prema. <o:p></o:p> 2. Being a milk seller is no qualification for practicing bhakti.<o:p></o:p> Material Goodness is no qualification for bhakti.<o:p></o:p> No material qualities can qualify one for bhakti.<o:p></o:p>

Dear bhakta Devarshi, dandavat pranam. 1. This idea “of the most prominent Acharya” is only Iskcon politics which heavily started in the early ’90-ies, as a massive upsurge of disciples left Iskcon for Gaudiya Mat, or even for “the babajis” or just became seek of preaching and of the continuous down fall of the so called gurus of Iskcon (see the forum of Gaudiya repercussions – which should be better entitled Iskcon repercussions), and the defectors were presented as traitors of “Srila Prabhupada”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> 2. And the idea of the most recent and current link is another invention of Iskcon which has nothing to do with the teachings of Sri Caitanya as presented by Srila Rupa Gosvami, and Jiva Gosvami about guru and parampara.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> 3. If Sri Caitanya teaches one thing and “Prabhupada” the opposite, I prefer to follow Sri Caitanya, and you are free to follow “the most prominent Acharya”<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You also said:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> If the prescription is, "In my assessment of your presently manifested symptoms, Y'all are situated in the modes of nature, bereft of anything but a minute sentiment for Krsna, which you just got when you met me, and therefore divide up and practice Daivi Varnashrama Dharma so you can gradually attain the goal of Shudda Bhakti. <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p> This prescription is not from Sri Caitanya or His empowered representatives from Vrindavan, who followed His teachings.<o:p></o:p> Srila Rupa Gosvami said that one should follow sadhana bhakti not any other thing,like (daivi) varnashram-dharma, that Sri Caitanya rejected:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā / varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya / saḿsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.13) O best among the twice-born, one achieves the highest perfection (saMsiddhir) by discharging the duties prescribed for one's own occupation according to social divisions (varNa) and religious orders of life (ashrama) thus pleasing (toSaNam) the Supreme Lord (Hari – the Well Wisher of His devotees) Sri Krishna Himself says: cātur-varṇyaḿ mayā sṛṣṭaḿ / guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ tasya kartāram api māḿ / viddhy akartāram avyayam Bhagavat-gita 4.13 According to one's own qulities (guna) and the work (karma) associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable. But than came the same Krishna in the form of Sri Caitanya and said, no, one should forget about varnashram dharma - this is external.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> One goes his regular job, due to his material attachment, and this is due to his weakness, not that this is the way of bhakti.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Endeavoring for something else than bhakti is not recomanded by Srila Rupa Gosvami in the second verse of Upadeshamrita: he says prayas – endeavoring for something else than bhakti kills bhakti – bhakti vinashyati!<o:p></o:p>

Don’t be cheated<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Let’s look more carefully at what “Prabhupada" said in the<o:p></o:p> Room conversation February 14 1977, Sri Dhama Mayapura Satsvarüpa: Lord Caitanya, when Ramananda Raya brought this up (That the perfection of life can be achieved by following Varna-ashrama dharma) He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this. Prabhupäda: “Yes. Not... He did not say possible. Ihä bähya” <o:p></o:p> (He said that it is external- iha bahya, meaning that it has nothing to do with the true nature of the soul – divine love for Krishna) Caitanya Mahaprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.” Satsvarüpa: But don’t we do that also? Prabhupäda: No. Our position is different. …<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> In this statement “Prabhupada” rejects this teaching of Sri Caitanya, saying that what if <o:p></o:p> Caitanya Mahaprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform…<o:p></o:p> Our position is different. (meaning that one should be interested also in something else than spiritual platform-<o:p></o:p> eventually practicing karma (in reality vi-karma) mishra bhakti – as daivi varNa-ashram dharma, which in the beginning of his preaching in the west SB Narayan M. rejected too)<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> It is true that everybody can choose what he pleases, or is qualified for. Everyone has his/her own independent potency – shatantra shakti, and follows his own iccha shakti desires.<o:p></o:p> One can follow Sri Caitanya’s teaching or one can follow “Prabhupada” teaching.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Is not that “Prabhupada” didn’t know what he does. He knew it well. He knew, he was cheating, and SB Narayan M knows it too, but both had/have practically another priority: expanding Iskcon / Bhakti-Trust…as priority goal (external, material).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Prabhupada” knew:<o:p></o:p> “… Caitanya Mahäprabhu personally took sannyäsa. He rejected completely material. Nishkincana – (one must get rid of any material possessions).”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And than he says again that his followers should not take up this teaching of Sri Caitanya:<o:p></o:p> “But we are not going to be nishkincana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the...”<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And for the fact that he doesn’t want to follow this teaching of Sri Caitanya he says that there is a prescription in the Bhagavad-gita:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gétä. We are not rejecting the whole society.” <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The idea to model the society is of course very nice, so that it may bring a good environment for spiritual practices. But this was not the concern or the teaching of Sri Caitanya, and “Prabhupada” knew it well, than he says further:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “Caitanya Mahäprabhu rejected everything, ihä bähya. Rejected meaning, “I do not take much interest in this.” Bähya. “It is external.” He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual.” <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> “But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. “<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> No, Sri Caitanya doesn’t say that this would be our duty (Sri Caitanya says this is external, this has noting to do with the duty or true nature of the soul – divine love for <st1:place w:st="Krishna</st1:place"> or Radha-Krishna). <o:p></o:p> “Krishna</st1:place> / Radha-krishna, caused by tasting His sweetness and beauty).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And Prabhupada adds:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And Caitanya Mahäprabhu, personality like that,..<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> This is cheating, Sri Caitanya rejected it. How can He like that what He rejects?!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And now it comes the core of the teachings of Prabhupada and his teacher SB Sarasvati:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> … But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the spiritual plane, which is not required (?!).<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Preaching the basics for the neophyte is not the core of Gaudiya sadhana bhakti.<o:p></o:p> One should progress in diving into the sweet pastimes of Krishna and the gopis, (<st1:place w:st="on">S. Bhag.</st1:place> 10.33.39) by which one will attain<o:p></o:p> 1 bhaktiM parAm bhgavati the highest bhakti for bhagavan<o:p></o:p> 2 kAmaM hRd-rogam Azv apahinoty the disease of the heart – lust, is driven away<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Sri Lilasuka (Bilvamangala Thakur) calls <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> ananda (ecstasy), and on the mouth of that ananda, a sringara rasa (erotic flavour) smile blooms up. He does not play any other games than the games of sringar rasa. Rasamaya Krishna and Rasamayi Radha shower Each other with nothing else but rasa during Their rasa-krida (delectable games), and the devotees that are fixed in smaran are constantly showered with the sweet relish of this rasa-krida. These pastimes can only be attended in svarUpa-avesha, but one can take inspiration from the books of those who were in that state. When the mind returns to the external world this svarUpAveza disappears, therefore Srila Narottama das Thakur sings: sAdhana smaraNa lilAihAte nA koro helA kAya mane koryAsusAra “Do not neglect the practice of smarana; make it the essence of everything for your body and mind!” It is the nature of these transcendental pastimes to draw the mind toward one’s siddha svarUpa. So, according one’s shraddha, one can be interested in daivi varnashram-dharma – vi-karma (we don't do karma) mishra bhakti or in shuddha bhakti – pure bhakti and seek someone who can inspire us to dive into the sweet pastimes of divine love of the Lord and His eternal associates, the gopis. <o:p></o:p>

I strongly doubt that Sri Caitanya preached that one should folow varna-ashram dharma in the form of ? dvd ? Srila Vishvanata Cakravarti Thakura, a follower of the teaching Lord Caitanya's, born in the year 1586 Shakabda era (about 180 years after Lord Caitanya) within the Nadia district of West Bengal in a place called Prasiddha Deva Gram, also renounced, soon after his arranged marriage, his wife and home and went to live in Vrindavan. (tishtan vraje! - Nectar of Instructions verse 8 - Rupa Gosvamin) He took up his residence in the bhajan kutir of Shri Krishna Das Kaviraja Goswami, on the banks of the Radha-kunda, where lived a disciple of Krishna das Kaviraja whose name was Mukunda das. There, Vishvanatha Cakravarti made a careful study of the literatures of the empowered representatives of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the Goswamis of Vrindavan. In that holy place he later wrote many commentaries on the books of the Goswamis. In one of his famous verses Srila Vishvanata Cakravarti Thakura says: ArAdyo bhagavAn vrajeza-tanayas tad dhAma vRndAvanam ramya kAcid upAsanA vraja-vadhU-vargeNa ya kalpitA zrImad bhAgavataM pramANam amalaM premA pumArtho mahAn ZrI caitanya mahAprabhor matam idaM tatrAdhara naH paraH The worshipable object – aradya (is that) Supreme Lord – bhagavan born from the body of – tanayas the Lord of Braja – Vraja-ISa (referece to Nanda Maharaja and of course mother Yazoda, whose son is that “naravata lila kRSNa” – Krishna of “human like” pastimes, or madhur Krishna – the sweetest Krishna, not the Mathura-natha Krishna - “Krishna of Majesty and opulence” - who appeared in the mind of Vasudeva and was transferred in the womb of Devaki, but that Krishna that was really born from the body of mother Yazoda) and His holly abode Vrindavan is in the same way worshipable - tad dhama vrndavanam . Of any kind – kacit of worship – upasana , the most pleasing (for the Lord) – ramya is the path shown - vargena ya kalpita by the married women of vraja (the gopis) – vraja vadhu (who renounced even the religious principles of dharma, just to please Krishna, a path which is not possible for Sri Laxmi) . Srimad Bhagavatam is the pure, spotless - amalam evidence - pramanam and premA – the divine ecstatic love (of Krishna) is the highest goal of humankind - pumartho mahan (beyond karma, artha, kama and moksha). These (concisely) comprise the opinion (the teachings) – matam idam of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and we don’t have attachment – nah adhara for any other (type of worship oder teaching)- tatra paraha .

No, is not the same SB NM. I witnessed His transformation over the years. He became an Iskcon-ist, he made His own Iskcon named Bhakti-Trust (inside and outside). In the beginning he used to preach, we should become begars... no problem in India, and He preached the love of the gopis and especially of the manjaris. I do have even copies of recordings of Him speaking on Vilapa Kusumanjali. Than only Aranya Maharaja left to do it. And than he...left. Now I read this Vilapa Kusumanjali wonder book (I was not alowed to read it, although anyone with faith in the message of Mahaprabhu should read it) and try to take some inspiration from the sweet mood of Raghunatha-dasa's revelations.

Dear guruvani, Dandavat pranam,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> You asked many questions...<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> how much sadhu sanga do we have to have?<o:p></o:p> do we need constant and continuous sadhu sanga?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The verse 22.83 from Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya lila says that from the beginning of the process of cleansing of the mirror of the mind /heart (ceto darpana marjanam) up to the full display of divine love one is dependent on sadhu-sanga.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> kṛṣṇa-bhakti-janma-mūla haya 'sādhu-sańga'<o:p></o:p> kṛṣṇa-prema janme, teńho punah ̣mukhya ańga <o:p></o:p> "The root cause janma-mūla of divine devotional service to Lord Kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa-bhakti is association with saintly realized devotees sādhu-sańga. The main principle mukhyaańga that awakens janme the divine love for Krishna kṛṣṇa-prema (is) again the same (association) teńho.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And than you asked<o:p></o:p> Or, can a moments association with a sadhu award all perfection.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yes, the same Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya lila says in a previous verse of the same chapter 22.54<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 'sādhu-sańga', 'sādhu-sańga' — sarva-śāstre kaya<o:p></o:p> lava-mātra sādhu-sańge sarva-siddhi haya<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The verdict of all revealed scriptures is that by (even) a moment's association with a sadhu, one attains all perfections.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> On the other side Sri Raghunatha Das Gosvami says that there is no greater loss, or suffering, than that of being bereft of the association of the real devotee of the Lord (sadhu), which is due to love. Sadhu sanga is love, and when you lose love, you weep in separation of the loved ones. You also said: are only "gurus" sadhu sanga? are only old indian swamis with beards sadhu sanga? kRSNa bhakta saGga vinA zreyaH nAhi Ara (CC Mdhya 8.251) "There is no other welfare than association with Krishna's devotees. <o:p></o:p> sure, sadhu sanga is important. but, sadhu sanga comes in forms other than physical proximity to a sadhu.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> After one really had sadhu saNga, he is weeping in separation of sadhu, and is hardly waiting to be again in that association. Real sadhu saNga is love. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The king and all the disciples also sat anxiously, waiting from Srinivasa to regain consicousness. In this way, the first three hours of the day passed. As time passed, Prabhu's disciples began to think that they had lost their master forever. Thinking that they would never again have the opportunity for such exalted association, they began to weep loudly. Thakurani then placed some cotton balls under the nose of Srinivasa to detect his breath. When they did not even slightly quiver, she pulled at her hair and fell to the ground in despair. In their grief, sometimes they wept and sometimes they fainted on the ground. Suddenly Srimati Ji remembered something that gave her encouragement, immediately calming her down. Seeing Sri Isvari's change of mood, everyone inquired curiously as to what had calmed her mind. She gladly told them that a long time ago, Srinivasa Prabhu had told her about Sri Ramacandra Kaviraja, who was capable of understanding everything about Sri Acarya. She said that she was certain that Kaviraja would arrive there that day, as this had previously been foretold to her in a dream. As she was speaking, Ramacandra Kaviraja suddenly arrived at the spot. He fell at the feet of Srinivasa, reciting prayers with folded hands. Calling the name of Sri Radha and beseeching Her blessings, Ramacandra covered the body of Srinivasa with a cloth and slid under the cover along with Prabhu. By exercising the powers given to him by the grace of Srinivasa, Ramacandra also entered into a deep trance and in his siddha-deha (spiritual perfect body) he came to understand everything about Srinivasa's trance. Ramacandra then assured Thakurani that if after two hours Srinivasa did not regain consciousness, she should chant the holy name loudly into his ear.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Dear brajeshwar, dandavat pranam,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> As I said that: So we have to cure our desease. The cure-process is called sadhana.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You replied:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The doctor cures our disease. We are dependent on the mercy of the Vaisnavas. We don't cure ourselves. We allow ourselves to be cured, we have that free will to do so, but without the mercy of Sri Guru we cannot do it alone. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Most probably you don’t know that your description is part of the sadhana bhakti. Sadhu sanga is of outmost importance in the process.<o:p></o:p>

Dear brajeshwar, dandavat pranam,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> As I said that:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The more you qualify, the more you are feeling disqualified.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You replied:<o:p></o:p> ... But this emphasis you are putting on qualification can be dangerous for us kanishtas. We start thinking 'I need to be qualified...I am becoming qualified.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> To think that you need to qualify is not dangerous. You should qualify.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But if you don’t really follow the path of qualification with the most prominent limbs: <o:p></o:p> in sadhu sanga <o:p></o:p> doing nama kirtan and<o:p></o:p> hearing about the lilas of the Lord, (bhagavat shravan), <o:p></o:p> living in <st1:city><st1:place>mathura</st1:place></st1:city> mandala (<st1:city><st1:place>mathura</st1:place></st1:city> vasa) and<o:p></o:p> worshiping with faith the Deity of the Lord (Sri murtira shradaya sevan)<o:p></o:p> then inevitably you will think you are qualified.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Very few follow the path of qualification: sadhana. There are only a few sadhakas in the world.<o:p></o:p>

Dear brajeshwara, dandavat pranam, The more you qualify, the more you are feeling disqualified.

Dear qHari, dandavat pranam, This idea has already been refuted. The mercy of Krihsna has nothing to do with rewarding. It is always there available. Only we are blind to see it. So we have to cure our desease. The cure - process is called sadhana.

Dear qHari, dandavat pranam,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> As I said<o:p></o:p> that the translation you presented for CC Madhya 24.205<o:p></o:p> is another inacurate translation of a verse. And the verse does not speak of the eligibility, or the qualification of the jiva to attain krishna’s mercy, as in Bhagavad-gita 2.64. <u1:p></u1:p> <u1:p></u1:p>But tu one who has become free vimuktaiḥ (from) material attachments rāga, envy dveṣa , and has und control ātma-vaśyaiḥ the senses indriyaiḥ acted upon caran material sense objects viṣayān and follows regulated principles related to the soul vidheya-ātmā attains adhigacchati the mercy of the Lord prasādam<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> You replied Yes, but this verse does not say "ONLY THOSE" attain mercy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But<o:p></o:p> You forgot to present evidence for who are “THE OTHERS”.<o:p></o:p>

Specail qualification to attain Radha Kunda In the 14 verse of Sri Sri Vilapa Kusumanjali Sri Raghunatha dasa prayed to Radha, that he may once see Her lotusfeet anointed with lac-dye, and in the verse 15 he prays for the actual service of these anointed lotusfeet, having become greedy for that service. “O lotus-eyed Radhe! Ever since I got to see Your lake (Radha Kunda I developed a liking for Your devotional service!” Sri Radhakunda is the limitlessly beautiful crownjewel of Vraja (vraja mukutamani), Priyaji’s sarasi (pond) which is most dear to those whose everything is the service of Sri Radhika`'s lotusfeet. kuṇḍera 'mādhurī' — yena rādhāra 'madhurimā' kuṇḍera 'mahimā' — yena rādhāra 'mahimā' "The attraction of Rādhā-kuṇḍa is as sweet as that of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Similarly, the glories of the kuṇḍa [lake] are as great as Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī's. sei kuṇḍe yei eka-bāra kare snāna tāńre rādhā-sama 'prema' kṛṣṇa kare dāna "Indeed, Lord Kṛṣṇa gives ecstatic love like that of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī to whoever bathes in that lake even once in his life.” Only the experienced devotee.understand the complete feelings of mine-ness towards Sri Radhakunda of the Radha-nistha devotees (those who are completely loyal to Radha), who love Priyaji (the beloved) with their whole hearts and who have offered their hearts to Her lotusfeet, It is here that Sri-Sri Radha Madhava eternally play Their midday-pastimes, and there is no place so der to Them as this. The Kunda is related to Svamini (Radha)as being non-different from Her, so along with the kunda those devotee who are surrendered to Her see Their lila (amorous pastimes). When Sri Krishna is eager to meet Sri radha and can find no means to see Her, He takes shelter of Radha kunda. The most fortunate souls can live on the banks of Sri Radha kunda, and that fortune consists of Radha’s personal mercy upon them. They qualified to receive that mercy. Srila Ragunatha dasa Gosvami writes in Vraja Vilasa Stava (101) purA premodrekaiH pratipada navAnanda madhuraiH kRita zri gandharvAcyuta caraNa varySrcana balAt nikAmaM svaminyAH priyatarasaras tIra bhuvane vasanti sphITa ye tA iha mama jIvAtava ime “Because of having worshiped the beautiful lotusfeet of Sri Gandharvaand Acuta with the everfresh sweetness of pure spiritual love in their previous lives, some great souls are able to live on the bank of Svamini’s dearmost lake (Sri Radhakunda). These great devotees are my life and soul!”.

Dear qHari, dandavat pranam, yo said: Thus, you conclude that one does not get guru by the mercy of Krsna? Everything you get is by Krishna's mercy. So what is there special, when you say you get guru by Krishna's mercy. <o:p></o:p> Special is the needed qualification so that you can get that mercy You get that mercy if you are qualified to get it. This mercy of Krishna is always there, but not everybody is qualified to get guru or ... a certain type of guru. <o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p> You presented evidence form CC Madhya 24.205 for the fact that everybody is qualified to receive <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s mercy.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> "Everyone is eligible to receive KRSNa's mercy--including VyAsadeva, the four KumAras, Sukadeva GosvAmI, lowborn creatures, trees, plants and beasts. By KRSNa's mercy they are elevated and engaged in His service.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But this is another inacurate translation of a verse. The verse does not speak of the eligibility, or the qualification of the jiva to attain krishna’s mercy, as in Bhagavad-gita 2.64.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But tu one who has become free vimuktaiḥ (from) material attachments rāga, envy dveṣa , and has und control ātma-vaśyaiḥ the senses indriyaiḥ acted upon caran material sense objects viṣayān and follows regulated principles related to the soul vidheya-ātmā attains adhigacchati the mercy of the Lord prasādam<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The verse CC Madhya 24.205 says: <o:p></o:p> All sabāra came into being udaya because hetu of <st1:place>Krishnas</st1:place> original mercy kṛṣṇa-kṛpā-ādi than haite being attracted ākṛṣṭa hañā by <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s qualities kṛṣṇa-guṇa, (they) worship bhajaya (Him)..<o:p></o:p>

Dear qHari, dandavat pranam, I already answered this kind of statements. if you like it or not, the Lord is not prejudiced. He doesn't pick up somebody whimsically and give him sadhu sanga, if one is not qualified for it. Maybe one lifetime one has 2 seconds of it, or two splited ours. He doesn't play dice in giving someone that association that brings sukriti. The Lord gives you food, but you have to chew it yourself. The mercy is there, but you have to pick it up yourself, knowingly or not. You also said: That is the bottom-line. Ahankara still has us in its death grip. If we think we've deserved all we've received and will receive, then our ingratitude, our greatness will soon swallow us up with false-pride I also answered these kind of statements. 1.The mercy is there, if you don't want to take it, don't blame it to the Lord. 2. From the moment one starts to worship the Lord, one gets special treatment. The Lord chews for the devotee, and put it in the devotee's mouth, that means the Lord makes special arrangements for the devotee. 3. How can one be ungrateful to the Giver of Divine Love? Only the ones that don't know His position. 4.qualifying to receive mercy, does not make you the giver of mercy, you are the beggar. The more you qualifiy the more you realize, you are the beggar. Is not a question of deserving mercy or not. One should understand that one should qualify for it, if one wants to get it. The more one qualifies, the more one gets. This is sadhana bhakti, beginning with shraddha (adau shraddha, tato sadhu sanga, tato anartha nivriti syat...).

Dear qHari, dandavat pranam In the material world we are sufferng and Krishna's mercy means Krishna wants to give you something that makes you really happy... but you are not able to get it. So Krishna explains how one can qualify, so that one can be able to get it. You must qualify so that you can be able to receive it.

Dear Bhakta Devarsi dandavat pranam you said: The point where you say one must have some sukriti, which qualifies one to look for the mercy, to pray for the mercy, is the part where you deny the cause of the Sukriti. But This has been explained in the previous posts. Krishna do not push anybody to make sukriti: 1. Associate with the holy places <u1:p></u1:p>2. Associate with the holy days <u1:p></u1:p>3. Associate with bhakti paraphernalia (Tulasi, <st1:city u2:st="on"><st1:place u2:st="on">prasadam, Bhagavatam hearing, Holy Name hearing, </st1:place></st1:city><st1:city><st1:place>Temple</st1:place></st1:city> of the Lord) <u1:p></u1:p>4. Associate with persons engaged in acts of divine devotion. His mercy is there, available but Krishna do not push anybody to take it.

Dear Bhakta Devarsi dandavat pranam you said: The point where you say one must have some sukriti, which qualifies one to look for the mercy, to pray for the mercy, is the part where you deny the cause of the Sukriti. The Sukriti comes unbidden, and is thus the first manifestation of Sri Krsna's mercy in our lives, and we were not qualified in any way to receive it OK, we get back to ajJata sukRti. <o></o>I didn't say one need qualification for ajJata sukRti, please read the previous posts. you also said: It (mercy) is forced on us, while our free will remains intact. Krishna don't use to force nothing on nobody, one can follow His rules or not, and accordingly suffer or be happy. By our free will we came here, in the material world, and by our free will (hampered by the reactions of previous deeds) we desire to get a certain association, that might be hepful to get us out of here. In all cases Krishna made the required arrangements, but he didn't force someone to get something.

Dear theist dandavat pranam, I said: The more you qualify, the more mercy you can get, this is sadhana bhakti. You replied: Even this statement can be heard to prove our point that mercy is not earned it is causeless. But the point was/ is not the mercy is not available, that is not always there, but that not everybody is able to receive it. To be able to receive it one has to qualify. The more you qualify, the more mercy you can get, this is sadhana bhakti.

<u1:p></u1:p><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Dear qHari, dandavat pranam. As I presented some qualifications for getting Krishna's mercy: rāga-dveṣa-vimuktais tuviṣayān indriyaiś caran | <u1:p></u1:p>ātma-vaśyair vidheyātmā prasādamadhigacchati || you replied: Perhaps this verse describes the prerequisites, not the cause. ...for if guru is not Krsna's mercy then I don't know what is.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> But <o:p> </o:p> These statements of yours root in a logical mistake.<o:p></o:p> The issue was/ is not that the mercy needs a cause, <o:p></o:p> But getting mercy needs a cause. The guru is there, and shastra explains that he is Krishna kripa, but not everybody gets guru, not everybody gets this Krishna kripa. Only the ones that in a certain life attained that qualification. And Krishna does not force sukriti on anyone. And in this connection He says that He doesn't favor anyone, He is equal to all, up to the point, one starst to worship Him.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The mercy is always there, but <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> does not force mercy on somebody. So one must qualify to get His mercy. Not that the mercy would be not available, but you must have some sukriti, which qualifies one to look for the mercy, to pray for the mercy.<o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p> The more you qualify, the more mercy you can get, this is sadhana bhakti.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> In this connection came into my mind the story of the blind baba of the Madana Tera , and the best sadhana.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> One might wonder why, if Radharani is really so kind, she kept Baba weeping for 40 years? Could she not appear before him earlier? She could. But could Baba really see Her then? (He was not qualified) She is not made of flesh and bones, which our eyes can see. She is made of love, She is Love personified. In order to see Her, one must have the eyes of love. Love does not develop in a heart, which is impure. The heart has to be purified by sadhana. The best sadhana is weeping in separation. The tears that flow in remembrance of Radha and <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> wash away all sins and offences (aparadhas), and the fire of separation that burns in the heart consumes the wild growth of all sorts of worldly desires. It is then that the ground is prepared for the seed of love to sprout and grow. When the seed grows and blossoms. Radha and <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> cannot remain indifferent. They are automatically drawn to it by its fragrance.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p><o:p></o:p>