amanpeter

Dear Brahma das, I admire this attitude immensely. Without such conviction, one is attempting to use God, guru and shastra only to relieve themselves. The desire to take full responsibility, whatever it may entail or even consideration of whether one is capable or not, for delivering all the fallen souls, is indicative of true committment to selfless devotional service birth after birth. Although you never seem to mention Srimati Radharani by name, your heart is obviously one with Hers. Just a matter of time, prabhu...success is already assured. JAI RADHE! valaya

We especially remember the Swami Dicks, but weren't they homosexuals, if not pedophiles, before Srila Prabhupada gave them sanyasa and placed them in positions of authority? Maybe this belongs on the `Is the guru fallible thread`... JNdas: Are you going to let this go on? Srila Prabhupada is our acharya, and we must follow him, not other self-appointed "acharyas". valaya: ISKCON GBC appointed "acharyas" are somehow automatically superior? [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-07-2001).]

When all the food one consumes is prasadam (offered) there is always the potential for familiarity leading to a certain amount of disrespect. Sometimes offerings are less than proper due to haste compelled by hunger. Freshness and taste may become an issue, leading to `older` perhaps `less attractive` prasad being rejected. This Sunday at ISKCON Toronto the servers ran out of everything but rice. As usual, of course, many Indian people carried out several large containers while many more tossed almost full plates into the garbage. My fault for coming so late, but I really don't see why it must be like this. Fortunately for me, at least, I have few reservations about procuring the Lord's mercy from that which has been discarded by others...valaya [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-07-2001).]

I don't bestow my `nyucks` so easily! That third `nyuck` has to be earned...

No offense, prabhu, but hope it's o.k. to wear my crash helmet!

Thank you for these reminders of the infinite unconditional love of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu! JAI SRI RADHE!!!

Satyaraja das, I do hope that your Hari includes Hara! JAI RADHE!

Dear Mel, Does this make you our nuclear or our unclear guru/captain/leader?... nyuck nyuck nyuck...

Sarcasm is defined in the Oxford Dictionary as a `bitter, wounding remark; taunt, esp. one ironically worded`. Many, if not all of the `older` devotees here have bitter wounds and there certainly is an unfortunate tendency to snipe at each other now and then. It seems infectious and even epidemic at times, nor can I claim to be above taking the odd shot myself... Still, I am reminded of a somewhat dysfunctional family with the kids constantly poking one another, possibly as the only way they can share intimacy. Understandably difficult for outsiders or newcomers to accept, let alone appreciate. I tried after first arriving on these forums, and still do occasionally, to be `helpful` in resolving relationships here between devotees, to little avail. Unable to take sides, I end up alienating everyone when really it's not my role to play at all. Much better, I think, to learn how to roll with the punches and not take it all too seriously. Love does work in mostly mysterious ways, prabhus. JAI JAI SRI RADHE! valaya ------------------ amanpeter@hotmail.com

'Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear 'Twas Grace my fears relieved Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound That hour I first believed! (From hymn "Amazing Grace") [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-05-2001).]

I find concentrating on the devotees' feet to be especially effective...everything depends on proper attitude. That is available through His Divine Grace, if you really want it. Diety worship from the heart is most helpful. What you see is what you get! JAI RADHE!!! valaya [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-05-2001).]

Prabhupada tells us that electricity can be used to heat or cool. His Divine Grace is a master electrician! JAI RADHE! valaya [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-05-2001).]

The Krsna of Vraja doesn't `decide` to allow Himself to be controlled by the gopis' spontaneous devotion, He is helpless before it, as He Himself admits. Mother Yasoda felt intense conflicting emotion as she gazed into Krsna's mouth realizing that He was no ordinary boy, yet it was her motherly duty to discipline Him. Krsna enjoyed the conflicting feelings He was inspiring in Her, but when He saw how painful it was for His mother, her love forced Him to surrender. Fearful intimidation and reluctance based on awe and reverence must at some point be transcended by the natural spontaneous rush of devotional feelings inspired by the need of personal intimate relationship. Krsna is under the absolute control of Radhika. Without understanding who She is and what this means for us all, the practice of bhakti remains very limited indeed, since She is it's very essence. JAI NITAI-GAURANGA! JAI JAI SRI RADHE!!! [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-05-2001).]

Enough already! Best decorate our personal vision of the Lord in our own hearts with the emotional attachments which are most pleasing and leave it at that. Anything else has the potential to distract/detract in one way or another. Exceptions can be made for public sankirtan/festivals as appropriate. valaya

Chapeter, eh? I'll take that as a sign. Peter/valaya

From "Shri Chaitanya Shikshamritam" by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur (p.117): To yield to superstition is a great evil. Submission to superstition produces partiality. If there is partiality there will be no regard for truth. To bear Vaishnava signs is regarded as a part of Vaidhi Bhakti. By this, bodily cultivation of God is made. But to think that it is only the principle sign of a Vaishnava is a superstition, arising out of partiality to one's own community. Guided by this superstition, some disregard holy Vaishnavas who are without these signs. In fact, if holy company is not obtained in one's own community, then guided by this superstition it will not be possible for them to take any interest for getting good devotees from elsewhere. There won't be any good if good-company is not obtained. Therefore, to yield to the superstition is a great evil. On the other hand, often they do not get the inclination to reach to the higher principle of devotion due to their confinement to Varnasrama dharma. Sometimes, malice which is suicidal appears in their hearts.

From "Shri Tattva-sutram" by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur (p.168): Wearing Vaishnavite signs on the body has been prescribed by the scriptures. But it can be considered as an ordinary rule similar to the worshipping of peepul tree, etc. With true devotion in the heart if the signs of divine-disc, tilaka, etc., are accepted, they may help the inculcated devotion. Those who wear these signs, without any devotional spirit are known as imposters. These pseudo devotees should not be treated at par with genuine saints and also they do not have any competence to deal with Srimad-Bhagavatam. Since they are vainglorious hypocrites, one should not talk or teach to them about religion. Those, who wear the Vaishnavite signs of respective schools with simplicity and humility, must be duly respected. If the wearing of those signs is conducive to the evolution of Bhakti, then never it is objectionable. But, if the external signs become the meter of judging the devotional spirit, then there will be a natural inattention towards the esoteric Divine-love. This must be cautiously understood by the followers of Vaishnava school. Wearing of the external signs must be made to follow the esoteric devotion and the latter should not be considered to be bound by the external signs.

`Birds of a feather flock together`, but the question remains--for what purpose? Unfortunately, the tendency is there to justify and assist each other in maintaining the particular false-ego identity that initially caused us to split into our separate group. When I stopped using drugs, there went my `friends` in that social circle! Devotees aren't out to win popularity contests or top public opinion polls! If we see our group as separate and different, it's natural to believe that uniqueness indicates some superiority, at least in certain aspects. There's a Vietnam war style memorial wall here in Toronto dedicated to the `saintly warriors` that succumbed to AIDS. Please, give us a break! It demeans the real sacrifices and suffering of so many others, does it not? I'm with Gauracandra, I'm afraid, in saying that all are welcome to join us, but not define us for their own purposes. Not that there actually is any intentional concerted group effort to do so; I don't know, but the tendency is there. Doesn't each Christian religious denomination consider it's own church as the best? If individual members didn't think so, they would likely be attending somewhere else. Whatever we need for Krsna conciousness has been given to us by Srila Prabhupada. It's most unfortunate that so many feel their needs unfulfilled within ISKCON, including more than a few of us here on these forums. Still, we must be extremely careful not to justify our position, individually or collectively, at the expense of the absolute truth as passed down to us by the previous acaryas. This holds true particularly in the case of initiated disciples, what to speak of those that have followers of their own. HARIBOL! Peter/valaya

What seems significant to me is the motivation behind wearing these images, also whether they are actual diety photos or merely drawings. Certainly if we're out and about amongst the general public, they can provide preaching opportunities for those so inclined. When identifiable as a devotee, however, one is obliged to act like one. My diety picture of Srimati Radharani is right here in my living/bedroom watching me 24/7. Sometimes I'm uncomfortable with that and cover Her up. Then I think of our relationship in such a close personal way that I remove the covering. I like to glance at Her from time to time, kind of like a wordless prayer. If you provide an address, I'll send a laserprint copy for your website (does size matter?). Although it seems right to be constantly aware of our offensive nature,really it can drive one mad! I much prefer to contemplate the unlimited divine love which I see expressed in Lord Chaitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, and Sri Radhika. My time of discipleship is yet to come, I guess, and thinking of all the details involved in becoming a real vaisnava devotee completely overwhelms me. I bow before each and every one of you!!! I'm simply hoping that somehow or other all will fall into place quite naturally in a future birth, for I'm well aware of the seed that has germinated in my heart-of-hearts. Love must find Her way...valaya ------------------ amanpeter@hotmail.com

This was not what I meant as vanity, prabhu. I like to watch the girls and women dancing for Krsna. Made up so beautifully, they always remind me of the gopis and inspire my worship! It's what I consider to be too often an ostentatious display of supposed devotion, as if what is worn externally or branded onto the body automatically denotes a deeper attachment. Rather it may simply inspire an envious or copy-cat attitude on the part of others, which can divert our conciousness inappropriately. That said, I have my own little external symbols to remind me of my true identity and who I belong to, which are obvious only to myself, and none of those do I depend on to save me at the time of death. That I must leave entirely up to His Divine Grace. JAI SRI RADHE! valaya

JRdd prabhu, could you please clarify your post for me? I would like to try and understand clearly what you are saying. Thanks. valaya

C'mon MC, don't tell me you're still trying to stump our resident pandit, Satyaraja prabhu! [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-04-2001).]

I think there may be some misunderstanding of sinful activity as morality or value judgements. Sin is that which separates us from the knowledge of our eternal relationship with God, while morality is the distinction between good and evil in relation to their effect on an individual or society as a whole. Values can be simply a set of cultural or other beliefs that may hold no relationship to the absolute truth. All this just came off the top of my head, prabhus. If these are not the correct interpretations, please set me straight. Should none of this be relevant to our discussions, please disregard.

So, like, would that be American dollars or what? Do they maybe give coupons for future blessings or multi-ceremony discounts?

I see tattoos as extreme vanity at the expense of desecrating a body that is not ours to begin with. Allegiance and fidelity are not so cheaply expressed, but have to come from inside. The same goes for overt displays on T-shirts, etc. Realized actions must speak for themselves. Cool and/or hip we may appear, but what's actually inside the so carefully displayed package? Anyone remember what Prabhupada said about `decorating dead bodies`?.... signed, worm-in-stool [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-04-2001).]