amanpeter

Thank you for clearing that up, prabhus.

Noted and appreciated!

Why survive?

Good one, leyh!

With each of the `martyrs` apparently entitled to 50 young virgins, Big Al might have a hard time keeping up with the demand!

An oldie but goodie to be sure. God bless America! Wish I was there.

Intesting new browser with unique features. Very fast. Free download. Anyone here using it?

I have the latest windows media player.

O.K. to comment, but not a good idea to invest oneself deeply, either emotionally or intellectually, except perhaps very briefly. After awhile, most of us get to know what our limits are and the consequences of getting sucked into muddy swirling waters. Though I may think my motives in getting involved are good, often it's just my foolish pride...

Haribol Maitreya! My similar post to yours was written simultaneously without having read what you said. Guess you're teaching me something after all, prabhu. I hate to give up on anyone, but some seem hopelessly impossible. So sorry to have reached this regrettable conclusion, Satyaraja dasa. ------------------ amanpeter@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-12-2001).]

That's because of his overiding need to make his point and have us all focus on him so that he can control all the discussions. Really, none of it has anything to do with either the search for truth and understanding, or the desire to actually communicate with anyone here. Even if one attempts to follow his twisty logic, intentionally out-of-context scriptural quotes, etc. etc., they will inevitably find their energies depleted, since that is what he feeds on. Should one persist in attempting to comprehend him, his thought processes, and/or what he is supposedly trying to say, they will become as confused and disturbed as he obviously is. However, like the carrier of some complex disease (dis-ease), he remains unaffected while leaving bewilderment in his wake. Only personal experience will finally confirm all this and these forums continue to be a fresh source of sincere souls, I'm sorry to say. Their is such a thing as too smart for one's own good!

I believe that Srila Prabhupada would have told us that these incidents and much worse are inevitable, due to the heavy karmic burden of the world caused mainly by animal slaughter and abortions. The only solution His Divine Grace ever offered was that we must accept Krsna as our sole shelter, read his(Prabhupada's) books in the association of devotees, and chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare constantly. ------------------ amanpeter@hotmail.com

I think it comes from deep-seated frustration, mostly with ourselves. These internet forums are not the best places to resolve emotional differences, since we can't look into each other's eyes and, as Maitreya says, most of us have never even met. Still we are talking about our most personal beliefs in God. Several here have been at each other for some time and it's often hard for the rest of us to understand. I, too, feel pain at how the devotees `relate` sometimes. Better not to let it overly affect you. Underneath it all, their hearts are usually hurting, too. Each of us cares, in our own way, although it's not always so visible. Just hang in there and try not to worry. Sincerely, Peter [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-12-2001).]

Dear Sabrina, I hope you are not so alone that there is no one close to talk with. Please do not read too much into all this, especially what you see here. This has surely been a difficult day for everyone and these are certainly trying times. Now it would probably be best for you to try and get some sleep. Tomorrow is another day. If you really feel the need, you can Email me and I'll speak to you by telephone if necessary. My home is in Toronto, Canada which is a big city, but I do know what it's like to be alone. Peter (amanpeter@hotmail.com) [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]

It was east Europeans, mostly from former communist nations, that prompted this thread (note the title). I thought that the `ulterior motives` issue had been settled previously. We may not be these bodies, but they must somehow be maintained and it is only natural for those whose spiritual conciousness is not quite as finely honed as yours to be influenced by western material prosperity.

It is possible for the impetus to be emotional, the foundation philosophical and the process scientific. Still, we tend to perceive truth as we wish it to be in order to justify our material attachments. Without the intervention of causeless Divine Grace, all our efforts would continue to be fruitless. The best we can do is to recognize and appreciate that Grace, co-operating in every way we can. Ultimately it becomes a uniquely personal experience, between each of us and our God.

Trouble is, these terrorist acts are impossible to completely prevent. Next time it could very well be nuclear. Such a device can easily be imported piece by piece and assembled anywhere. Personally, I'm in favour of massive retaliation as swiftly as possible. Unfortunately, more `martyrs` will be created and suicide bombers will be lining up to volunteer. To think that we can remain secure while keeping all enemy threats at bay with cruise missiles, electronic/satellite surveillance, etc. is completely unrealistic, I'm afraid. I can't help wondering how all this will fit in with the Golden Age of Lord Caitanya. Maybe we'll all be chanting in caves, prabhus... [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-12-2001).]

He's in Alaska, climbing Mt.McKinley alone. So He says, anyway. Right now he could be deep into Afghanistan on an assassination mission for the CIA... [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]

According to Bhakti-marg Swami, who is now one of the two GBC for Canada, many are simply blown away by the cultural/material differences. I wouldn't want to infer duplicity on the part of the devotees who come here, in fact part of the shock is probably finding temple life in the sorrowful state that it often is, in North America at least. I've met more than a few obviously sincere souls who simply couldn't tolerate things any longer, just as I myself cannot. ISKCON Toronto is a nice place to visit, but I don't think you'd want to live there; not for more than a couple of months, anyway. [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]

So, Talasiga, besides continuing to pelt us with `clever` poetry, what is it you are suggesting we do? This is not, in my humble opinion, a proper time to poke at each other.

One expressed an inappropriate opinion in an intentionally offensive manner while the other responded with stupid personal insults in an equally offensive manner. I replied to both and also commented on Bhaktavasya's post without expressing any opinions of my own. I'm still not able to take any devotee's side, individually or as a group, wholeheartedly against any other devotee!!! Please don't condemn me for this, prabhu, or close your heart to any of us. Terrorism is a divide and conquer tactic and it's destructive at so many levels. valaya

Really, Satyaraja das, you surprise me! This must be a new low, even for you. Further confirmation of your heartlessness? Just another opportunity for a `stimulating` discussion, prabhu? Show a little judgement, if not sympathy, eh?!

Maitreya, you are obviously intelligent enough to formulate a more appropriate response that doesn't reflect back on you, and thus Srila Prabhupada. We all know how provocative some can be here, but they are entitled to their opinions as are we all. Let's not prove their stated beliefs, ignorant and offensive as they may be, by our own senseless reactions. The best we can do for those directly affected by this tragedy is to pray and chant, expressing all our emotional pain and frustration directly to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]

Bhaktavasya: An intereseting coincidence indeed! [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]

The usual expected knee-jerk response! Too bad you can't PUNISH him eh, by calling down the wrath of God! Yeh, it's all Satyaraja's fault, and those nasty meat-eating homos--anyone but ourselves, right? We so pure! [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]