Beggar

Where do you percieve that anyone who has even a superficial aquaintance with the Sankirtan Movement of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is saying that the gayatri mantras are the "main thing"? Again, the Hare Krsna Mahamantra is the main thing and the gayatri mantras are there to help us. This is the absolute conception and the relative application. Statements that the Holy Name of Krsna are all in all are the absolute conception. The relative application is how the acaryas apply this in the world. One relative application is the diksa or gayatri mantras. When Srila Narayana Maharaja talks about the "absolute necessity" of diksa and chanting of the gayatri he is using the English word, "absolute" in another way. This is more evidence that most of these posts are an argument over semantics. The issue is constantly brought up as a "straw man argument" to rehash the Narayana Maharaja issue endlessly. As far as the question of Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja's second initiation and his chanting of gayatris, I really don't know the answer, but that is a corallary point which is not at the heart of the issue. Why not make some absurd argument that Krsna is not really in His diety form because Sri Murti is not technically the Holy Name? Why not stop chanting japa completely because Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that chanting nama aparadha is like "firing blanks"? That is even more ridiculous but is definitely going on in certain circles.

What Gaudiya Math? The Gaudiya Math in your dream world? I happen to know a number of young (and apparently unqualified members) of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math and almost all of them who show any semblance of a service attitude receive diksa (Gayatri) mantras from their gurudeva, Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda-deva Maharaja. How does this in anyway contradict the idea that the Mahamantra is all in all and can give everything? If Srila Govinda Maharaja stoped giving second initiation, which he would never do since he is the successor to Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhar-deva Gosvami Maharaja, then you could use your arguments to justify that position. But this situation only exists in your imagination. Is the fact that the Mahamantra is preminent mean that we should stop honoring prasadam and eat bhoga? What kind of neophyte insanity is this to use one part of the philosophy to bash another part, all in the name of loyalty to one's guru? Does it prove your a loyal follower of your guru to go on a public campaign against another Gaudiya guru? Those who are doing this must stop these offenses immediately. Follow your gurus orders and the program that he has given you and look inward for the faults, they are not in the environment but rather in the eye of the beholder. One who has no realisation of this is not even a religious person.

We find contradictions between acaryas and sastras because our conditioned minds superimpose material duality upon the spiritual substance. And because our minds are immersed in duality unless we get the shelter of the genuine devotees of Krsna and Sri guru we will eventually again become attracted the opposite, which is absolute monism. We must pray that the real understanding of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's conception of acintya bheda-abheda tattva, inconcievable, simultaneous oneness and difference will come into our hearts. Otherwise we will be doomed to criticize advanced Vaisnavas, then even Krsna and Mahaprabhu.

When Srila Sridhar Maharaja says that "the holy name is all and all", that is the absolute conception. The relative consideration is how the absolute manifests in this world which is the perogative of the acarya or "the transcendental via media", Sri Gurudeva. The holy name maybe all and all but we also chant the gayatri mantras in which the Krsna Nama is couched. There is the famous story of the 70's ISKCON devotee who was preaching to a guest to chant the mahamantra. Srila Prabhupada overheard and later told the devotee something like, "that's OK but you must tell them about the process". The "process" in ISKCON and the Gaudiya Maths is more or less the same except for minor details. We may no longer live in a temple or a math but we can remember our devotional life there. We awoke an hour to half and hour before mangal artik, payed our obeisances to the Spiritual Master, took bath, applied tilak chanting the appropriate mantras. Someone woke the dieties, someone prepared the mangal artik milk sweets for the offering. We usually chanted a few rounds of japa on our mala then attended mangal artik and tulasi puja. Then (at least in ISKCON) there's a japa period, those who had second initiation would then chant gayatri, then guru puja and then Bhavavatam class. During the day we were serving the Vaisnavas and gurudeva and going out for preaching. These processes are all described in Bhaktirasmrta Sindhu and Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. So we chanted Hare Krsna in the context of the process of pure devotional as given by gurudeva. Are we next going to argue that hearing Srimad Bhagavatam from a pure vaisnava is not important? Then why is this stated in Caitanya Caritamrta? Is hearing Hari katha (Krsna katha) separate from the holy name of krsna? Anyway ultimately you will have to hear these things from someone who follows them perfectly and is well versed in the sastra. And if you already did this but for some reason your sraddha has become damaged you will have to hear it again from someone that you have faith in. That’s all I can really say. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

I can't understand how that "quote" suddenly appeared in the posting area. There seems to be some techinical problems. Anyway to continue: The philosophy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu harmonizes all dualities through acintya bheda(a)bheda tattva. In other words all truths or realities have something in common and something different. Krsna is the all harmonizing factor. Also the gayatri mantra initiation in Srila Sarasvati Thakur's line is in the pancartrika viddhi as is hare nama initiation . This means that qualification is not given stress but rather the opportunity to become qualified for the activity such as chanting hare nama or gayatri. This is the Movement of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and we are told that He came to give the highest thing to the lowest persons. How could the lowest persons be qualified for the highest thing? That is another topic but at least we can note that this is an indication of the greatest mercy, Mahaprabhus madly and profusely distributed this mercy and this is the meaning of "audarya".

The article by Srila Narayana Maharaja (transcribed lecture), "The Absolute Necessity of Second Initiation" in no way contradicts the overall mood and opinion of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. If an acarya emphasizes one point it does not mean he de-emphasizes another. There is always a danger in the land of duality that neophytes will misunderstand something by taking it out of the larger context. Several years ago a misguided neophyte, Western member of the present day Math of Srila Sridhar Maharaja was preaching that Srila Sridhar Maharaja didn't give much regard to diksa gayatri mantras (second initiation). So that is the context of that talk quoted by Puru Prabhu

Srila Sridhar Maharaja answers this in "Sri Guru and His Grace":"Jiva Goswami has written that the name of Krsna is the principle thing in the gayatri mantra. Within the mantra, there are also so many other words, but the name is the most important. If the name of Krsna is taken away, and replaced with some other name, the whole thing will be rotten. This is the decision of Jiva Goswami. The holy name of Krsna is all in all. The holy name of Krsna is there in the gayatri mantra, and so many other words are couched there. But if Krsna's name is taken away and replaced with the name of Siva, then the whole thing will go to Siva. The holy name is the all-important factor. The holy name of Krsna is so important that even the gayatri mantra may not be necessary. It is said na ca sat kriya, na dikse na ca purascarya manadilate mantrayam rasana spri hanato sri krsna namatmaka : "One need not undergo all the purificatory processes, or follow the six ritualistic ceremonies mentioned in the Vedas for pious life; one need not even take initiation into the gayatri mantra. If one simply chants the holy name of Krsna without offense, everything will be successful." The holy name of Krsna is the most important consideration. The gayatri mantra may not even be necessary. We accept the mantra only to help the nama-bhajana, the worship of the holy name. Otherwise, it may not be necessary at all. It has been judged in such a way. The name alone can do everything for a person. lt is full and complete. The mantra helps us to do away with the aparadhas, offenses, and the abhasa, or'> or hazy conceptions in our bhajana. The'> The mantra comes to help us only so far. An example is given of larger and smaller circles. The holy name of Krsna is the larger circle. It extends from the highest to the lowest. The mantra circle is a smaller circle within the larger circle. The mantra cannot reach to the lowest point. The holy name can extend itself down to the lowest position. The mantra gives us entrance into liberation, and then the name carries us further. This is the nature of our connection with the mantra and the name. The name extends to the lowest position, to the candalas and yavanas. Everyone can receive the name. But everyone is not eligible for the gayatri mantra. Only after one has reached a developed stage can the mantra be conferred upon him. And the mantra's jurisdiction will be finished when liberation is attained. In the Caitanya-caritamrta (Adi. http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/sri_guru/dot_clear.gif7. 73): krsna-mantra haite habe samsara mocana krsna-nama haite pabe krsnera carana "The Krsna gayatri mantra liberates one from repeated birth and death in this world; the holy name of Krsna gives one shelter at the lotus feet of Krsna." The gayatri mantra helps us achieve liberation, and then the mantra retires. After giving us liberation, the mantra is finished. But the name will continue all along, from the lowest to the highest. In chanting the name, there is no mention of any petition--it is an address only. We should not chant with the mentality that, "I want this." We must simply chant the name spontaneously. That will encourage good will in us. So, because the function of the mantra is limited, but the name is all-important, the nama guru will be honored first, and next, the mantra guru, and then the other Vaisnavas."

Ask yourself, How did these souls become the sages of Dandaka? What kind of sadhana and bhajana did they do in their past lives? Please note that the Dandaka sages had the direct darshan of the Supreme Lord. Is that our position? Since it obviously is not this makes your post slightly off point.

Exactly, Theist, obviously Srila Hari das Thakur was chanting suddha name without chanting gayatri mantra but he is a "manifestation of Lord Brahma and/or Prahalda Mahraja". If someone had diksa in his past life (or lives) that person might be chanting a very high quality of Krsna Nama, but then again they will have the samskars which will cause them to seek out the association of a sat guru. Then after faithful hearing and service they will be compelled to take diksa. If we look at the life of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur we see an example of this. Of course we view this as a pastime for we have been told by those in his line that he (Bhaktivinode Thakur) is really a nitya siddha or enternally liberated devotee. Do we dare posit that we are nitya siddhas? As conditioned neophyte devotees we need all the help we can get. It is the Protestant Christian conception that everyone can be their own guru and they, will certainly "bow to no man". "Yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau. It is not by education or grammatical knowledge you can learn anything. No. It is by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And that grace comes down through the grace of guru. That grace also does not come directly. We should not be neglecting this point. (Srila Prabhupada lecture, October 4, 1976, Vrindavan, India)

Yes, they will admit. Mayavadis will not use this disparaging term to refer to themselves but will admit that they believe they are the Supreme Lord. The world sahajiya means "natural flow". This is the goal of Gaudiya Vaisnavas, to become aprakrta sahajiya; to enter the natural flow of divine love and pastimes in the aprakrta or transcendental plane. So they will gladly admit that they are sahajiya. Prakrta means the material nature. The Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas therefore criticize the imitationist or prakrta sahajiyas who imagine that they are situated in the transcendental plane. The prakrta sahajiyas believe that by imitation they will develop the samskars or mental impressions that will take them to the transcendental plane. The mental imaging done the sadhana of the prakrta sahajiyas is considered imagination by the genuine Vaisnavas. In other words it is a sham or phantasmagoria that leads one away from the real path to the raga marga. We also want to develop favorable mental impressions, samskars but by following not imitating. We cannot really follow Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu because He is param brahma, the Supreme Lord, Krsna Himself. We can follow His chief follower Srila Rupa Gosvami, but not imitate his internal bhajana. That internal bhajana can be revealed to us if we follow in his line by following the instructions of the bonafide spiritual master(s). From him we will learn about sambandha jnana or what is what and our eternal position as servants of the Supreme. Then we will learn about the abhideya tattva or the process (sadhana to attain) of pure devotional service. And then we will learn about the prayojana or ultimate goal of Krsna Consciousness. To attain anything one must have a goal, so sadhana without the goal to achieve bhava bhakti and ulitimately prema bhakti is just an empty show and another form of imitation. This point has been made rather strongly on several occaisions by Srila Narayana Maharaja. Srila Sridhar Maharaja would often say, "Ultimately we are our best friend or our worst enemy, uddhared atmanatmanam...(BG 6.5), "the enemy is within" and "no one can cheat us but ourselves, na hi kalyana-krt kascid/durgatim tata gacchati (BG 6.40)." He also said, "What is needed is self-scathing self analysis" and this is what we find so beautifully expressed by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur in Saranagati. We all need to look more carefully in this direction, inwardly and deeply and not go on a witchhunt looking outside ourselves for the deviators and imitationist. Mahaprabhu says, "trnad api sunicena" (Siksastakam 3). We must think that it is we ourselves who are the "wolves in sheeps clothing" and not others otherwise there is only the prospect for us of an ocean of faultfinding.

Face it Srila Sridhar Maharaja's presence has been obvious in the Srila Narayana Maharaja's sanga since the early 90's. If you look a the pictures of the ISKCON (or Ex-ISKCON) devotees there in the 80's on Srila Sridhar Maharaja's veranda you'll see many of the same faces that are with Srila Narayana Maharaja today. For what ever reason those devotee's identified with Srila Sridhar Maharaja's vani but did not feel compelled to follow his formal diksa line into the present day, nor join the Math. They went for siksa which for them is and was to gain a deeper understanding into the teachings of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. They also took it to hear that one can have one diksa guru and many siksa gurus. This was also comfirmed by Srila Sridhar Maharaja. We want to go to the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math but are told. "if you go there (Srila Narayana Maharaja) don't come here". We also hear statements such as, "there is sahajiya bhajan going on in almost all the maths, except Sri Caityanya Saraswat Math", so the sahajiya charges are leveled at one and all. Consequently Srila Sridhar Maharaja's apparent camp sticks to itself, exclusively and doesn't venture outside the gates. But Srila Sridhar Maharaja himself said [to paraphrase], "a three year old boy may be told, don't go outside the gate of your fathers house, there is danger. But if that same boy will not venture beyond the gate when he reaches maturity he will be a fool.” As followers of Srila Prabhupada we did not venture beyond the gate of ISKCON only to re-enlist in the primary education, yet it seems that is what is being asked. If the devotees of the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math want to be insular and fear the greater Gaudiya Vaisnava association that is the perogative of their leader and leaders. It is not any different than what our Prabhupada did during his ISKCON lila and therefore it is certainly appropriate for devotees in the very beginning stage. Yet the result of all this is that the Math followers no longer feel that Srila Sridhar Maharaja's teachings should be spread to the general Gaudiya community unless those who receive those teachings become supporters of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's diksa line. The result of this is that practically the only time ISKCONites quote Srila Sridhar Maharaja it is in an attempt to bash Srila Narayana Maharaja. When Srila Sridhar Maharaja says, "pujala raga patha gauvave bhange, this is the very gist of Bhaktisiddhanta vani", why is this not relevant to the followers of Srila Narayana Maharaja ,Srila Bhaktivenda Prabhupada, Srila Bhakti Pramode Puri Maharaja etc? Why do they have to join your mission to take it to heart? The result of this type of so called "exclusivity" is that the formal followers of Srila Sridhar Maharaja no longer reach out to other major sangas with a message that is relevant to anyone but the members of their own Math. It is now up to others to try to make available the teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and entice others to be open minded enough to hear them by showing their universal benefit for everyone aspiring to follow the line of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

We are to harmonize with the environment. Srila Sridhar Maharaja has explained this is so many ways. Srila Narayana Maharaja's credentials as a bonafide Gaudiya Vaisnava in the line of Srila Sarasvati Thakur are impeccable. So why not harmonize with this Vaisnava? Why is there a still a clandestine war against Srila Narayana Maharaja by many claiming to be followers of Srila Sridhar Maharaja? Because they claim that Srila Narayana Maharaja is an offender to Srila Sridhar Maharaja. But why would an "offender" refuse to initiate during the time of Srila Sridhar Maharaja? Why would an offender arrainge to have Srila Sridhar Maharaja's composed bhajans sung in his sanga? Why would an offender give so much honor to Srila Sridhar Maharaja that he calls him his Siksa guru? If the teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Narayana Maharaja clash then why would Srila Narayana Maharaja encourage his followers to read the books of Srila Sridhar Maharaja? The principle reason that we must harmonize is that these acarya's are message carriers of the past acaryas. When we find contradictions we are really finding irreconcilable differences amongst previous Gaudiya Acaryas, and that becomes our dull-headed, and foolish path of aparadha, offense. Unfortunately ignorance is no excuse. As Srila Sridhar Maharaja was fond of saying, "fools rush in where angels fear to tread".

That Narayana Maharaja and his followers think that they are flowers in Vrdavana must be ignorantly extrapolated from the concept of a manajari. As those who are familiar with Tulasi plants know, a manjari is an immature type of flower or bud. The goal of Srila Rupa Goswami and his followers is to become a young girl maidservant or kinkari of Srimati Radharani. Since in relation to the gopis these divine girls are immature they are referred to as manjaris. The Gaudiya Vaisnavas including the followers of Srila Narayana Maharaja do not have the audacity to think of themselves as manjaris in the conditioned stage but rather earnestly pray for the laulyam or greed to attain such a postion. This greed will ultimately be attained by associating with advanced Rupanuga Vaisnavas, serving their lotus feet and following their instructions. This is fully in line with the teachings of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada.

Of course, Srila Narayana Maharaja is speaking as a member of traditional Indian Society. Yet that is really the external viewpoint. His point is that generally ladies have a stronger serving tendency than men. So this is our goal in the Krsna Conscious Movement, to become reinstated as the eternal servants of Krsna, which is our intrinsic nature as jiva souls. The point he is making is that women generally have a head start in this process due to their nature, especially in light of the fact that followers of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Sril Rupa Gosvami consider the soul to be female, relative to the Supreme Lord. Consequently it is ironic that devotee women have been considered at a disadvantage devotionally due to their nature. This is the point that he is making and it is a serious matter, very relevant to the contemporary Gaudiya Vaisnava society. As Srila Sridhar Maharaja so aptly put it, "try to dive deep into reality, search for Sri Krsna, Reality the Beautiful".

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja FOR PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS The Hague, Holland: July 12, 2005 Some people have doubts. They think that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja has said that women and black people are very low. The fact is that he has not said it, and it is actually a wrong idea – a very wrong idea. You should know you are neither male nor female. The soul is transcendental – a servant of Lord Sri Krsna, but we have now accepted a female or male form. *[see Endnote 1] It is not that the intelligence is low in ladies and high in men. It is also not true that black people are necessarily sudras. Who are sudras? Those who eat cow-flesh and drink alcohol, and those who cheat others. Sudras are those engaged in diplomacy, hypocrisy and envy – whether they are black or white. I will speak something more on this topic, with reference to Srimad-Bhagavatam. You should know that we are all spirit souls. The soul is not white or black. All souls are very beautiful. Regarding the transcendental form of the soul, there is no question of who is less intelligent or more intelligent. If ladies are so low-class and so low in intelligence, how could the gopis have defeated even Lord Sri Krsna? *[see Endnote 2] Why does our guru-parampara, beginning from Brahma and Narada, worship the gopis? Why did Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu – Sri Krsna Himself – adopt Srimati Radha's mood? Srimati Radhika always defeats Krsna in beauty, in intelligence, and in all other ways. If ladies are less, why do we Gaudiya Vaisnavas want to be gopis? Who in our Gaudiya parampara does not want to be a gopi? We want to serve Lord Krsna and Srimati Radhika in a female form, not a male form. So how is it possible that this female form is lower? Don’t think like this. It has been sometimes stated in the scriptures that there are some specialities in ladies; ladies can have children. Men cannot do this, not even if they were to have an operation. If a man has an operation to become a lady, still he cannot have children. Also, ladies are very affectionate. They always have a service-mood. A boy will say, "Sister, give me water. Mother, give me water." But ladies will not say, "Oh, brother, Oh father, give me water." These are specialties. Some persons think that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja and the scriptures discern someone's qualities on the basis of birth. This is not true. *[see Endnote 3] Srila Vyasadeva appeared in a family of sudras, and Sri Narada Rsi was also born in a sudra-family. However, whoever calls them sudras will go to hell. Srila Haridasa Thakura was born in a Muslim family. He appeared in a family in which cows were slaughtered and their flesh eaten, but he is not a Muslim. Ramananda Raya said about himself, "I am sudra." This is trnad-api-sunicena – humility. Mahaprabhu said about Himself, "I am a Mayavadi sannyasi." Was he a Mayavadi sannyasi? Of course not. Do not think that He was a Mayavadi. One may say that He Himself said so, but He said so only out of trinad-api-sunicena. Throw out all these doubts – the ideas that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja has written something against ladies and black people. It is not correct. If anyone has explained his words in this way, perhaps they didn’t understand his idea. Perhaps they have made mistakes in their editing. He, or anyone like him, will never write like this. What is written in the Bhagavatam is true. The Hague, Holland: July 13, 2005 Some persons have told me that when they read Pujyapada Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja's translations of Srimad-Bhagavatam, and especially his purports, they lose their faith in Krsna-consciousness. They say this is because his books state that ladies are inferior, and that black people are all sudras and cannot have bhakti. So many people who were in ISKCON left because of this. In this regard, I want to tell you all that in the Bhagavad-gita it is written: mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ’pi syuh papa-yonayah striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te ’pi yanti param gatim [At this time Srila Narayana Maharaja called on a devotee to read the translation, as it is written in a 1970 BBT printing.] [Devotee reads aloud:] "O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth – women, vaisyas (merchants) and sudras (workers) – can attain the supreme destination." (Bhagavad Gita 9.32)] [Devotee:] Sri Krsna is saying, "O Arjuna, those who take shelter of Me, although they may be of a lower birth, like women, vaisyas and sudras, can still attain the supreme destination. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] What you have explained is totally wrong. This is why they are confused and have doubts. Mam hi partha vyapasrtya. After the word 'papa-yoniya' (sinful species) there should be a comma, not a hyphen, and not the word 'like'. Stri – women – are not papa-yoni. Sudras are also not papa-yoni. Who are papa-yoni? Srimad-Bhagavatam explains this: kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah ye 'nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah ["Kirata, Huna, Andhra, Pulinda, Pulkasa, Abhira, Sumbha, Yavana, members of the Khasa races and even others addicted to sinful acts can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, due to His being the supreme power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him." (Srimad Bhagavatam 2.4.18)] They are papa-yoni, because they have no Krsna-consciousness. They eat meat and eggs, and they drink wine and large quantities of alcohol. They smoke and engage in so many sinful activities. They are papa-yoni. For stri (women), it has only been said that they have some monthly impurity. They are not inferior. Regarding sudras, who is Sri Narada Rsi? In what class was he born? Narada was a dasi-putra, the son of a maidservant. Was he low class? Srila Vyasadeva was born from the womb of a sudra mother, and Prahlada was the son of an atheistic demon. Vidura was also born of a sudra mother, and there are so many others like him. Should we reject them? According to the Vedic system of classification, women, vaisyas and sudras are not papa-yoni. Nowhere has this been written. Another misunderstanding of Srila Swami Maharaja's intention is found in the edited and published version of his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.26.26. We find there: "Generally when a woman is attacked by a man – whether her husband or some other man – she enjoys the attack, being too lusty." *[see Endnote 4] In the verse itself, nothing like this has been written – that ladies are less-intelligent, or that they cannot perform bhajana, or that they are lusty and men are not so. The verse states: "My dear Queen, due to my sinful desires I went to the forest to hunt without asking you. Therefore I must admit that I have offended you. Nonetheless, thinking of me as your most intimate subordinate, you should still be very much pleased with me. Factually I am very much bereaved, but being pierced by the arrow of Cupid, I am feeling lusty. But where is the beautiful woman who would give up her lusty husband and refuse to unite with him?" It has never been written that men are not very lusty. Men are also lusty. *[see Endnote 5] Moreover, it is the soul who comes in a male-form or women-form; so all are equal. All the Rsis of Dandakaranya were male. They prayed to Lord Ramacandra, "We want to be like the gopis." Then, by Lord Rama's mercy they became perfectly self-realized and went to Vraja. There, taking birth from the wombs of gopis, they attained the forms of gopis. Were they less intelligent? We should not think like that. Srila Swami Maharaja has written that in some cases there is some speciality in women and in some cases some speciality in male. This has also been told in Srimad-Bhagavatam. So we should not think that ladies cannot perform bhakti or that they are less intelligent or inferior – nor should we think that Srila Swami Maharaja has said so. It is stated in Sri Jagadananda Pandita's Prema-Vivarta, yadi caha pranaya rakhite gaurangera sane chota haridasera katha thake yena mane ["If you wish to associate with Caitanya Mahaprabhu, you must always remember the incident of Chota Haridasa and how he was rejected by the Lord."] What is the meaning? Ladies are very attractive and beautiful, so men should not mix with them. But ladies are also advised not to mix with men. The advice is for both. We should not think that ladies are inferior or less intelligent. We should not think in this way. Those with doubts have quoted a statement from Srila Swami Maharaja's purport: "It may be clearly said that the understanding of a woman is always inferior to the understanding of a man." In the original verse it hasn’t been written like this. I think that some of the purports given by Srila Swami Maharaja have been somewhat changed by editors. I have read Srila Swami Maharaja's books in their entirety, and therefore I know that he would never write like this. I don’t agree with this statement, and he could never have written it. You should try to reconcile such statements, and don’t be worried about this. What has been written in Srimad-Bhagavatam is all right, and if something in the purport is different from the Srimad-Bhagavatam version, it is due to the fact that the editing was incorrect. Do you know Lord Brahma? He begot a beautiful daughter named Sarasvati and began pursuing her. She at once became a lady deer and began to run, and he became a male deer. Marici was present and he said, "Father, what are you doing? You are intelligent. You should know that everybody will laugh at you. Don't do this." Marici's six sons began to laugh, and then Lord Brahma cursed them. They became the sons of Kalanemi, and in their following birth they became the six sons of Devaki, who were killed by Kamsa. They could not understand Lord Brahma, but Marici understood. He did not commit an offence, but they did so. We should be very careful. I read everything that Srila Swami Maharaja wrote, and everything is ok – the only thing is that there is some mis-editing. Some persons cannot reconcile. They say papa-yoni, meaning sinful, necessarily applies to ladies. This is quite wrong. It is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam: purnah pulindya urugaya-padabja-raga sri-kunkumena dayita-stana-manditena tad-darsana-smara-rujas trna-rusitena limpantya anana-kucesu jahus tad-adhim ["Some other Vraja gopi said: O sakhis! We consider the young aborigine women (Pulindis) to be truly blessed and successful, because they possess extraordinary attachment (anuraga) for Sri Krsna within their hearts. When they see our dearmost beloved Krsna, an intense desire to meet with Him is aroused within their hearts. Their hearts are struck with the disease of love. At that time, they smear their breasts and faces with the reddish kunkuma powder collected from the grass of Vrindavana. The beloved gopis of Krsna had adorned their breasts with this kunkuma powder and it then becomes affixed to Sri Krsna's lotus feet. When Syamasundara walks about Vrndavana, the grass becomes covered with this powder. The supremely fortunate Pulindi girls smear their breasts and faces with this powder, and in this way they alleviate the anguish of their love." (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.21.17)] In the chapter called Venu-gita, Srimati Radhika prays that in Her next life she will take birth as a Pulinda girl. Although the Pulinda girls are born in families of aborigine tribesmen and have menial jobs like carrying firewood, Radhika says, "The Pulinda girls are most fortunate, because they place the dust of the lotus feet of Krsna on their breasts. I want to be a Pulinda girl." So you should not worry about a lady's so called high or low birth. [Question:] Could you explain what Krsna meant when He said in the Bhagavad-gita that women, vaisyas and sudras are less than brahmanas and ksatriyas? We read that in Srila Prabhupada's translation. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] Brahmana refers to "brahma-jnanati". Such bramanas are self-realized; they are not like the brahmanas of Kali-yuga. If a Vaisnava is really a Vaisnava, he will have no lust or anger, or any other bad qualities. If he has no envy, greed, pride or illusion, then he is brahmana. He is victorious over the six bad qualities.At that time, when Lord Sri Krsna spoke Bhagavad-gita, Vasistha, Atri, and so many other exalted devotees were present. They were real brahmanas. *[see Endnote 6] The ksatriyas were engaged in war, in controlling the state, in taking taxes, and in many other political activities. The vaisyas were engaged in business and farming, but they also served the Vaisnavas and brahmanas. Then striya – ladies – they have children, and engage in such activities as serving their husbands and doing household work. For this reason it has been told that vaisyas, women and sudras are less than brahmanas and ksatriyas. But this has not been told about women like Arundhati, or Anasuya, Gargi, Gangamata Thakurani, Jahnava Thakurani or Hemlata Thakurani. This does not refer to them. The Hague, Holland: July 14, 2005 I want to explain something regarding my class yesterday. In the Bhagavad-gita Sri Krsna made a statement about women: mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ’pi syuh papa-yonayah striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te ’pi yanti param gatim What is the meaning? Srila Swami Maharaja has written: "O son of Pritha, anyone who will take shelter in Me…" This is very clear. "…whether a woman, or a merchant, or born in a low family, can yet approach the Supreme Destination." [Translation taken from the 1968 edition of Bhagavad-gita] This is a very good translation. Everything is clear. This is the first edition, and it is clear here. Then, in the next edition which came out soon after that, I think the translation was changed to "not As It Is." Because the editors have no realization, they were bound to change the punctuation and wording to make it look like all women are of a low, sinful birth, less intelligent and so on. You should know the truth. If you want to know, you can read his original books. "O son of Pritha, anyone who will take shelter in Me" – very clear – "whether a woman, or a merchant, or born in a low family, can yet approach the Supreme Destination." This is the original. Amsterdam, Holland: July 15, 2005 – Darsana at Schiphol Airport [Question:] Gurudeva, the other night you were speaking about the wrong editing of our Srila Prabhupada's books. Having heard your class, some devotees may become afraid to read his books now, doubting all his published books. They may be wondering if they are really getting Prabhupada, or someone else. Can you say something about that? [srila Narayana Maharaja:] They should carefully read the books of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja. They should read all his books. Generally there will be no doubt, but where there is some doubt, they should see his original writing. There are so many changes in Srimad-Bhagavatam also. [Question:] For many years it was preached in ISKCON that women are less intelligent than men. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] Both women and men are transcendental parts of Krsna – jiva-tattva. *[see Endnote 7] Regarding their being less intelligent than men, there is no question of that. [Question:] Then we could also say that if there is any doubt, the reader can go and ask a pure devotee. Yaha, bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane ["If you want to understand Srimad-Bhagavatam, you must approach a self-realized Vaisnava and hear from him." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5.131)] [srila Narayana Maharaja:] They should see the original version. [Question:] But even during Srila Prabhupada's lifetime, even the first time a book was published it had mistakes, because his disciples were new devotees at that time, including the editors. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] My books also; they should not be changed. What I am writing or translating should stay the same. The editors should not try to explain more. If they will do that, they may fail. They may write something wrong. Endnotes *Endnote 1: " 'I' is different from this body. I am living in this apartment, but I am not this apartment. But the modern civilization is going on on the basic idea that 'I am this body.' 'I am American.' 'I am Indian.' 'I am brahmacari.' 'I am ksatriya.' 'I am man.' 'I am woman.' This is condemned. This is condemned." (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita. Bombay, 29 December 1972) *Endnote 2: It is stated in the Gosvami's literatures that the gopis defeat Krsna in word games, dice games, wrestling and other sports. "Just like gopis. The gopis were women and not very high class woman, cowherd's men, in the village, not in town, very educated, high society, brahmana, ksatriya, no. They all belonged to the vaisya class. And they were woman, not Vedantist, not scholar. But they conquered Krsna. Why? And that is this. They heard about Krsna, and they became lover of Krsna. That is required. So that is the real qualification. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He was so strict about womanly association. Still, He recommended, ramya kacid upasana vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita: 'There is no better type of worshipping Krsna than tha system which vraja-vadhu, the gopis, adoped to love Krsna. That is the first-class.'" (Purport to Parama Koruna. Atlanta, 28 February 1975) *Endnote 3: "The Krsna consciousness movement, therefore, is a cultural movement that does not care about local social conventions. Following in the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Advaita Acarya, we can accept a devotee from any part of the world and recognize him as a brahmana as soon as he is qualified due to following the principles of Vaisnava behavior." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 3.221, purport) "But what is today being labeled varnasrama is an atheistic concept totally unsupported by the scriptures. Real varnasrama is based not on birth but on people's qualities and activities. One cannot reach the goal of the scriptures by practicing today's demoniac caste system. Only the introduction of daivi-varnasrama, the transcendental varnasrama system, will serve the purpose of the scriptures. This will move humanity toward liberation." (Renunciation Through Wisdom, 5.1) "We also give. 'Never mind you are sudra. You become brahmana. Come on. Be Krsna conscious.' That we also are giving. We don't deny, 'Oh, you are sudra, you cannot become a brahmana.' We don't say that. He canalso become a brahmana. 'Come on. You learn how to become brahmana.' That's all. That... The point is this equality, there cannot be. First point is this. This is nonsense. But everyone should be given the chance to occupy the best position. That is in our philosophy also. But unequality there must remain. You cannot make equality. It is not possible. That is nonsense. In your country there is not equality. Why an old woman – I have seen it – she is sweeping the street? So old woman, she should have taken rest, but she is engaged in sweeping the street. And a young man , he is becoming dictator. Where is the equality? She should have given rest, but she is obliged to work. And another young man, he is a manager. Why? Why this inequality? Where is equality? First of all settle up how you can make equal. That you cannot do. Then you are talking nonsense, 'equality.' It is not possible." (Morning Walk. Rome, 29 May 1974) *Endnote 4: "Besides the editing consideration mentioned by Srila Narayana Maharaja, the above quote was taken from the middle of Srila Prabhupada's purport. The beginning of the purport is: 'Both man and woman desire one another; that is the basic principle of material existence.'" (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.26.26, purport)] *Endnote 5: "Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say 'legalized prostitution.' They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that's all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, "Better married. Then you will be controlled." Married life... So he will not be so lusty as without married life." (Morning Walk. Perth, 11 May 1975) *Endnote 6: "So to know God means he must become a brahmana, real, qualified brahmana. Therefore brahmana is respected. Because, brahma-janatiti brahmana. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brahmana without any knowledge of Brahman." (Room Conversation. London, 2 September 1973) *Endnote 7: "On the spiritual platform, the learned person not only gives up the duality of man and woman, but also gives up the duality of man and animal. This is the test of self-realization. One must realize perfectly that the living being is spirit soul but is tasting various types of material bodies." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.12.10, purport) Defending Srila Prabhupada's Integrity [Just before Srila Narayana Maharaja gave his 2005 Holland class regarding Prabhupada on the subject of women, he ordered us to compile some of Prabhupada's quotes in order to eradicate any doubt. The purpose of this compilation is to defend Srila Prabhupada's integrity and the integrity of the Vedic literatures (including Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita). Moreover, it is to help the devotees who have this doubt, because they don't really want to have it. They love Prabhupada and they want to serve the mission of his guru-parampara. They find some of his statements pinching, and that makes them sad because they don't want anything to come in the way of their devotional mood towards him. The purpose of this compilation, then, is to assist the devotees in reading those quotes in a different way – in the truly positive way in which Prabhupada intended them to be understood. A concern was raised: "It sometimes appears that Prabhupada and the scriptures criticize women, saying that they are lower than men or that they are always compared with sudras." The quotes below have been compiled to assure such readers that this is not so. He does not criticize any particular class of persons. Rather he criticizes all consciousness other than Krsna consciousness, and his purpose of doing that is to encourage everyone to become Krsna-conscious and give up the fearful and miserable bodily concept of life. The following document does not claim to be an exciting literary exposition. The quotes are arranged, not in the form of a dramatic literary article, but like a document, or something like an index. The excitement is in the quotes themselves. You will find the editors' comments in bold italics in brackets, and Prabhupada's statements in indents and normal font.] I. "Woman" may mean "Man" [The following doubt raises itself: "It sometimes appears that Prabhupada's books state that women are stumbling blocks for men on the path of spiritual life. This seems like a bias against women." In that regard it may be noted that Prabhupada and the scriptures often mean "man" when they use the word "woman":] The training was that he was training to become a brahmana, samo, dama, but the progress became checked on account of being attached to a woman. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, the woman is accepted as hindrance to spiritual advancement. The whole basic civilization is how to avoid... Woman... You do not think that only woman is woman. The man is also woman. Don't think that the woman is condemned; man is not. Woman means enjoyed, and man means enjoyer. So this feeling, this feeling is condemned. If I see one woman for enjoyment, so I am man. And if woman also sees another man for enjoyment, she is also man. Woman means enjoyed and man means enjoyer. So anyone who has got feeling of enjoyment, he is considered to be man. So here both sexes meant for... Everyone is planning, "How I shall enjoy?" Therefore he is purusa, artificially. Otherwise, originally, we are all prakrti, jiva, either woman or man. This is outward dress. (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam. Vrndavana, 1 September 1975) Two things: woman and money. If we become attracted... Woman means for man the woman is woman, and for the woman the man is woman. Not that woman means a particular class. Woman means which are enjoyable. So in this material world, the man is enjoyable by the woman, and the woman is enjoyable by the man. For both of them, visayinam sandarsanm atha yositam. Yosit means enjoyable. (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam. Vrndavana, 10 September 1976) I always say, man is good, and woman is also good, but when they combine, then they become bad. (Letter to Gurudasa. Bombay, 22 December 1975) Illusioned by Your external energy, everyone, whether man or woman, is attached to this material existence, and all are engaged in cheating one another in a great society of the cheaters and the cheated. (Krsna Book, Chapter 51) II. Spiritual Equality of Men and Women The spirit soul is equal in either a man or woman. In the Bhagavad-gita, 6th Chapter, 1st Verse it is stated "anasritah karma..." One who is actually engaged in the service of Krishna, there is no such distinction... phalam karijam karma karoti yah/ sa sannyasi ca yogi ca na niragnir na cakriyah. Anyone acting for Krishna, he is a sannyasi or sannyasini. It is also stated: striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te'pi yanti param gatim. So spiritually everyone is equal. But materially a woman cannot be given Sannyasa. But you should not be bothered because you are serving on the spiritual platform. (Letter to Aditya. Mayapur, 4 February 1976) In Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Movement, everyone is preacher, whether man or woman it doesn't matter. I do not know why Kirtanananda Maharaja is encouraging our woman devotees not to go out on Sankirtana for book distribution. Everyone should go out. (Letter to Karandhara. Bombay, 6 October 1976) Female Reporter: "Swami, I saw a television program about your movement once, and they said that the men make the decisions and the women follow. Is that true?" Prabhupada: "I do not follow." Srutakirti: "She hears that the men make the decisions and that the women follow these decisions." Prabhupada: "Not necessarily. We follow the decision of Krsna, men and women both. We follow the decision of Krsna. That is applicable both men and women." (Interview. New York, 5 March 1975) Just a moment before, we were dancing and chanting equally, the boys, the girls, the men, the women. So there is no distinction. Even if we do not understand the language, what is the meaning of Hare Krsna, but because it is transcendental, because it is spiritual, from the spiritual platform, everything is equal. We forget that we are American, or we are Indian, we are child, we are youth, or man, or woman, because in the spiritual platform there is no such bodily distinction. (Lecture. Montreal, 11 June 1968) He may be a man, he may be a woman, he may be a sudra, he may be a brahmana or he may be black or he may be white. Everyone can approach to the highest platform of devotional service. It is open field." (Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam. Montreal, 19 August 1968) III. True Devotee Women Are Most Intelligent Although Kunti had the body of a woman, she was a devotee. Therefore she was not like an ordinary, unintelligent woman. Rather, she was the most intelligent, for she recognized Krsna to be the Supreme Godhead. (Teachings of Queen Kunti, Chapter 3) Suniti, the mother of Dhruva, was a farseeing woman, and therefore she advised her son to worship the Supreme Lord and no one else. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.8.23, Purport) The Gopis Are the Topmost Intelligent Uddhava is described as the most exalted personality in the Vrsni dynasty, being almost equal to Krsna. He was a great friend of Krsna's, and being the direct student of Brhaspati, the teacher and priest of the heavenly planets, he was very intelligent and sharp in decision. Intellectually, he was highly qualified. Krsna, being a very loving friend of Uddhava's, wanted to send him to Vrndavana just to study the highly elevated ecstatic devotional service practiced there. Even if one is highly elevated in material education and is even the disciple of Brhaspati, he still has to learn from the gopis and the other residents of Vrndavana how to love Krsna to the highest degree. (Krsna Book, Chapter 46) The gopis are the epitome of this perfectional stage of knowledge. (Krsna Book, Chapter 47) IV. Prabhupada's letters to his spiritual daughters My Dear Govinda Dasi, Please accept my blessings, and offer the same to Gaurasundara. I am so much pleased by reading your letter of June 26, 1969, describing your preaching activities in Hawaii, both husband and wife together... I was so much enlivened by hearing of your spirited preaching activities. I am proud that a little young girl like you is so much spirited in preaching Krishna consciousness... The whole world is full of fanatics and atheist classes of men, so sometimes we have to face such difficulties. But this is all tapasya. Without tapasya, nobody can approach Krishna. So preachers who boldly face all kinds of difficulties are considered to be under tapasya, and Krishna takes note of such tapasya of the devotee, and the devotee is recognized by Him. I have asked the BTG men to publish your heroic preaching activities under the heading of 'Heroine Govinda Dasi.' (Letter to Govinda Dasi. Los Angeles, 7 July 1969) Now you have got a good wife who is also intelligent girl and devotee, so live peacefully working together for pushing on this Krsna consciousness movement for the ultimate benefit of all concerned. (Letter to Krsnakanti. Los Angeles, 1 August 1970) In London, the six couples who are working very hard there have been very much appreciated by the people of London, and their character, behavior, and devotion are attracting sincere people to our movement. I want similar thousands of couples for my disciples to propagate our movement throughout the world. You can always help me in this matter because you are an intelligent girl and you have many talents. So you can utilize your god-gifted qualities for utilizing in Krishna Consciousness. (Letter to Govinda. Los Angeles, 26 January 1969) Being in the disciplic succession of Prahlada Maharaja certainly we are not interested for our personal liberation as much as we want to work for the liberation of the conditioned souls because Krishna desires it. So you are an intelligent girl, I need not talk much, and be happy in Krishna Consciousness business. I am very glad to learn that Muralidhara, Devahuti and Bharadraja are working together. You simply supervise them. I know Bharadraja is a very fast working painter and if he sticks to his work, certainly he will do wonderfully. So far Devahuti is concerned, she is elder woman but very nice and sober as well as qualified. Because she is of the age of all of your mothers, she should be treated very respectfully. Nothing should be ordered to her but simply suggested so that she may work in her own way. You should personally see to the comforts and conveniences so that she may feel very happy to stay with you all young boys and girls." (Letter to Jadurani. Los Angeles, 14 January 1970) V. Women as spiritual master My Dear Silavati...Your description of the course you are giving to the interested girls about the role they play in Krishna Consciousness is very nice, and I am pleased that you have begun this project. Actually the role of all conditioned souls is the same; to chant Hare Krishna, tell others to chant, perfect our lives in Krishna Consciousness, and to go back to Godhead when this body is finished. Now if you can induce all the women of Los Angeles to place an altar in their homes and help their husbands have peaceful, happy home life in Krishna Consciousness, that will be very great service for you. The actual system is that the husband is Spiritual Master to his wife, but if the wife can bring her husband into practicing this process, then it is all right that the husband accepts wife as Spiritual Master. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said that anyone who knows the science of Krishna, that person should be accepted as Spiritual Master, regardless of any material so-called qualifications; such as rich or poor, man or woman, or brahmana or sudra. So if you can show the women of the community how to help their husbands and children to perfect their home life, and all aspects of life, in Krishna Consciousness by chanting, aratrik ceremonies, and eating Krishna prasadam, then you will improve the conditions of the neighboring communities to an incalculable extent. Your ever well-wisher. (Letter to Silavati. New Vrndavana, 14 June 1969) Prof. O'Connell: "Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession"? Prabhupada: "Yes. Jahnava devi was – Nityananda's wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the perfection.... Yei Krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. The qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Krsna. Then he or she can become guru. Yei Krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru haya. In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Krsna consciousness perfectly, she can become guru. (Interview with Professors O'Connell) Prabhupada: So a crazy man's statement is not accepted. Child's statement, crazy man's statement, unauthorized person's statement, blind man's statement, we cannot accept." Atreya Rsi: "A woman's statement"? Prabhupada: "Huh"? Atreya Rsi: "A woman's..." Prabhupada: "If a woman is perfect in Krsna consciousness... Just like Jahnava-devi, Lord Nityananda's wife, she was Acarya. She was Acarya. She was controlling the whole Vaisnava community." (Interview. Toronto, 18 June 1976) The prostitute shaved her head clean in accordance with Vaisnava principles and stayed in that room wearing only one cloth. Following in the footsteps of her spiritual master, she began chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra 300,000 times a day. She chanted throughout the entire day and night. She worshiped the tulasi plant, following in the footsteps of her spiritual master. Instead of eating regularly, she chewed whatever food she received as alms, and if nothing was supplied she would fast. Thus by eating frugally, and fasting she conquered her senses, and as soon as her senses were controlled, symptoms of love of Godhead appeared in her person. Thus the prostitute became a celebrated devotee. She became very advanced in spiritual life, and many stalwart Vaisnavas would come to see her. (Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 3.140-142)

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami told one of his followers, "don't become an ordinary person." I wish that I could follow that instruction. Maybe we could call the new site: "The Gramya Katha Clearinghouse".

First let me say that I agree with opponents of the constant re-editing of Srila Prabhupada's books. It seems obvious from the quotes that have been present on these different threads that it is a dangerous course and it certainly appears to be against both Vaisnava and modern publishing etiquete. This is not an issue only for Rtviks but anyone who has an attraction for Srila Prabhupada's books. The real solution has already taken place. Prabhupada's original books are being published by several sources. Its also a good thing that devotees don't want to see others cheated. Especially those who had Srila Prabhupada's direct association or even those who never met Him but had the association of the ISKCON that He personally guided want others to get the same quality of exposure to Krsna Consciousness This is because the devotess are para dukha dukhi, always burdened by the suffering of others. On the other hand we need to make sure that we our not imposing our previous Judeo-Christian concept of a judgemental God who has created an eternal Hell for all those who revise Srila Prabhupada's books or take disciples prematurely. Still more extreme is to interpret, "All Glories to Srila Prabhupada" as "All Glories to Srila Prabhupada" and therefore none left over for any one else including Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu etc. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is our Saviour, and our samasta Guru but we cannot really follow him because he is Krsna himself. Our goal is not Krsna but Krsna prema, so for these two reasons we follow the six Gosvamis and primarily Sri Rupa and Ragunatha das. This is what Srila Prabhupada came to give in his books. The Vrndavana Krsna that Mahaprabhu adored is not the God of judgement but that of love, beauty and Mercy. And Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu who is Krsna covered by the luster and mood of Srimati Radharani in is the mood of audarya; He is busy distributing the highest thing to the lowest persons, us. So then who are we to judge? But we can call a spade a spade. We need not to focus on the faults or shortcomings of others. We can take the positive approach and lead others to the original books of Srila Prabhupada. In these endeavors we will go on in the mood of service, knowing that everyone will approach Divinity according to their sukriti. We will make the endeavor but leave the results up to Krsna. As Srila Prabhupada has said, "we have our plans and Krsna has His."

A big question: What is the meaning of, "these books will be law books for the next ten thousand years"? Did Srila Prabhupada mean`only the Gaudiya Vaisnava sastras that he translated and purported or did He mean the Gaudiya Vaisnava sastras in general? Is only His edition of Caitanya Caritamrta a law book for the Golden Age of Kali? Amongst those asserting themselves as Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's followers there is definitely a dichotomy on this point. We can certainly take this through its logical steps. If only the published editions that were "blessed" during Srila Prabhupada's manifest lila are the "law books" then clearly the books translated into other languages besides English after His manifest lila are by definition, not the "law books". If they are not then what is the position of those who read and rely on them for their spiritual life? Gaudiya Vaisnavism unlike purely dualistic Western religions has never been so black and white on these types of issues. This is certainly due to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's conception of acintya-bheda-abheda tattva. And this is not to say that there isn't something very precious and sacred about Srila Prabhupada's books that were published during his time. Although Srila Prabhupada used the term, "law books" is this context, He as the representative of Sri Sri Gaura Nitai is the manifestion of Their Mercy. As Kali Yuga persons of this advanced stage of this degraded yuga our only hope is this Mercy. Acharya's in the line of Rupa-Raghunatha such as Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur have written, "yogyata-vicare, kichu nahi paya/ Tomara karuna sara. If I look closely at myself I won't find any good qualities, Your Mercy is my only hope." Srila Sridhar Maharaja told (paraphrasing), "How is it that we want Mercy for ourselves but not for others? We don't want to be judged for our faults and our present deplorable condition yet we want to judge others." The Supreme Law of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhus' Sankirtan Movement is that Mercy and Beauty are superior to law and judgement. This is the very jist of the "law books for the next ten thousand years".

When Ravana took Sita and imprisoned her, it wasn't the real Sita but rather Maya-Sita. If ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada's "body" then the ISKCON that doesn't accept Srila Prabhupada, an uttama adhikari guru, as omniscient is Maya-ISKCON.

The higher devotees do not relish any transcendental mellows, rasa by hearing of Krsna mausala lila. This lila is more or less to bewilder the atheists. For these reasons the mausala-lila is not considered "transcendental or spiritual" by the expert devotees.

Srila Sridhar Maharaja said: "I consider him (Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) saktyavesa-avatara, and it is confirmed in his writings on his spiritual journey through the Atlantic. How he landed there in America, and the nature of his beginning the movement. His intense degree of dedication to Krsna and dependence, (on Krishna) and how much he made himself empty of any other desire than the order of his gurudeva, quite empty that Krsna came down to help him. And it is corroborated that Krsna worked on his behalf. In his poem, "Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krsna," we find him pleading with Krsna, "My dear Brother, Your good fortune will come to you only when Srimati Radharani becomes pleased with you." Seeing his gurudeva, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, as Radharani's delegation and his order as Her divine service, he humbly submitted that he did not feel himself worthy or fit to discharge the divine service, so he enlisted Krsna in the service of his guru. He had completely dedicated himself to the purpose, he was so earnest in his prayer to Krsna that he may discharge the duty that he has been given by his Guru Maharaja, that divine force, power, came down to help him. Otherwise, it is impossible. It is not a thing of the ordinary level that anyone can do--take the highest thing [Krsna consciousness] to the lowest position [fallen souls] so extensively. It cannot but be the divine power, embodied and in a great intensity and magnitude! So, saktyavesa-avatara, I cannot but take him to be so." {"And when asked by his disciple (Govinda Maharaja) what was the avesa (particular type of empowerment) that Srila Prabhupada exhibited, Sridhar Maharaja replied Nityanandavesa. The compassionate power of Nitai to deliver the most-fallen."} (This part's from Brahma Prabhu's article on VNN -June 27, 2002 VNN7405 as is the quote of Srila Sridhar Maharaja )

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Some persons doubt that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja was tri-kalajna, omniscient. They question that if he was omniscient, how could he have given the renounced order to so many disciples who have either fallen down or will fall down very soon. They say that it seems as though he never knew what would transpire in the future. Many ISKCON leaders are thinking that he was not omniscient, and that is why he gave sannyasa to many who later went to hell. Those who think that he was not omniscient or that he made mistakes are wrong. They are totally wrong. They are not initiated in the real sense, and they cannot understand things properly because they are not associated with any high class of Vaisnava. You are familiar with the history of Sri Ramacandra. Sita saw a deer grazing and She requested Rama to capture it. Rama then followed the deer for miles and miles, and finally He shot it. That deer was the demon Marica, and as he was dying he called out in Rama's voice, "O Laksmana! Save me! Save me!" As a result of this incident, Sita was kidnapped by Ravana. Rama is omniscient. Why did He not know beforehand that Sita would be stolen by Ravana if He would pursue the deer? Why could He not have known? Why did He have to send Hanuman and others to search for Sita? Laksmana is akanda-guru-tattva, the personified principle of undivided or complete guru. Why did he leave Sita and then have to search for her? In this regard one may also doubt Krsna and question: Why did Krsna do so wrong? Why could He not have warned the young Yadus when they presented the so-called pregnant 'girl' before the sages? Did He not know that the incident would later be the cause of the Yadus' fighting together and killing each other? If He knew, why did He not warn them? He could have prevented them all from dying. Krsna knew, and Ramacandra knew. They both knew everything, but They were engaged in naravat-lila, human-like pastimes, playing the role of human beings. Whatever They did was for the welfare of the universe. Srila Swami Maharaja is a manifestation of Krsna, and whatever he did was also for the welfare of all. Foolish persons cannot reconcile all these things. Such persons are fallen souls. They are not actually sannyasis.

Both the guru and the disciple must be bonafide. Literally bonafide means “bona” “fide”, from Latin, in good faith. Generally bad faith means that one is being deceptive. So if the guru is genuine and the disciple is deceptively trying hide his or her materialistic motives then the transaction becomes degraded on the part of such a disciple. It is often found that in large scale preaching missions there are many kanishta or materialistic devotees. Their apparently fanatical worship of their guru has the odor of ulterior motives and the stench of insincerity. Of course if such a materialistic devotee who is habituated to self-deception falsely takes the role of guru then the situation becomes quite hopeless. It seems to me that the idea of “personality cult” is an overly broad term borrowed from mainstream pop psychology and the media. It comes from the section of faithless persons who would probably even view the ISKCON of Srila Prabhupada’s time as, “nothing more than a personality cult”. The idea that new religions go through a stage of “charismatic leadership” and then experience a crises after the demise of the charismatic leader is coming from contemporary sociology. When we borrow these terms from atheistic mundane society we allow such atheists and opponents of bhakti to infiltrate our thought system. The situation is compounded especially in America where the courts have intervened in ISKCON and forced their legalistic reality into the lives of the devotees. Case in point, The ISKCON Office of Child Protection, which came out of the legal settlement, designed by lawyers and approved by the court, with the Gurukula Alumni. Not that child protection is a bad thing, it is part of any civilization, but it must be administered by PhD’s etc. who’s education is basically a brainwashing into the legalized and medicalized reality of Western society. Actually to satisfy the courts licensed persons with advanced degrees must administer such programs. These persons are trained to submit to a scientific outlook which studies reality under the microscope with a dead specimen in the slide. But Reality is a living thing not a dead thing. Srila Sridhar Maharaja would say, “Search for Sri Krsna Reality the Beautiful”. Why surrender to the mundane conceptions of people that Srila Prabhupada often referred to as fools and rascals? Why live in fear of their conception of “who is crazy?” Even if the mundane linear thinkers were to see a film of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur worshipped by his most exalted disciples, they would still make the allegation of “personality cult”.