Beggar

When is the right time to go over to the Gaudiya Math? I suggest going over there during the Bramha Muhurta hour or just before. You might want to catch the boat at about 5:00 am.

Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami has written, "guru krsna-rupa hana sastrera pramane, guru-rupe krsna krpa karena bhakta-gane"Translation : 'According to the deliberate opinion of all revealed scriptures, the spiritual master is non-different from Krsna. Lord Krsna in the form of the spiritual master delivers His devotees. (Adi-lila 1.45) Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami has also written, siksa-guruke ta' jani krsnera svarupa, antaryami bhakta-srestha, ei dui rupa Translation : 'One should know the instructing spiritual master to be the Personality of Krsna. Lord Krsna manifests Himself as the Supersoul and as the greatest devotee of the Lord.(Adi lila 1.47) It's easy to see how one who cannot properly adjust according to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's conception of "acintya bheda-(a)bheda tattva" or simultneous oneness and difference will fall into the trap of either unqualified dualism or unqualified monism. Just more evidence of the need for good association.

Just what do you mean by other camps? Hello matta, hello Pitta Here I am at Camp ISKCONada Camp is very entertaining And they say we'll have some fun if it the Rtviks stop complaining. Remember my Zonal guru, the one than preached in Urdu, The GBC just caught him breaking his curfew...

A soft rtvik is better than no rtvik at all. Isn't Rtvik the capital of Iceland? Now on a serious note: The GBC's current guru system is similiar to rtvik but at least the "facade" pays some respect, if not much to the concept of guru tattva. In this kind of system, if a self-realized soul appears then at least there is some chance, maybe. The true Rtvik's deny that their is even the possibility of a living guru appearing for the next 10,000 years. Yikes, you've just been sentenced to 10,000 years with no possibility of a living guru! Sounds like a death sentence for the concept of guru tattva...no thanks!

Guru Is Not a Doll But at the same time we offer reverence to gurudeva, we must not conceive that the, guru is a doll, a lifeless figure. Because we are familiar with a particular figure and accept that as our guru we should not become misled. The important thing is what he says, his instructions. That is attracting our inner hearts. I am not this body. I am the inquirer. That thing which is satisfying me, drawing the inquirer to the inquired--I must try to locate that thing in him. I must not rely on material calculation. I am not this body. Who am I, the disciple? Am I only this body, this figure, this color, this caste? Or am I this temperament, this scholarship and intellectualism? No. I am he who has come to seek. Who is the party within me, and who is the party in guru? We must be fully awake to that. What is the inner thing? I have come for that. We must be awake to our own interest. There is the relative principle and the absolute principle. We shall have to eliminate the form, ignore the form; we shall always have to keep the spirit. Otherwise, we become form worshipers, idol worshipers. Guru: More than Meets the Eye It is said, of course, that the connection with the spiritual master is eternal (caksudana dilo yei, janme janme prabhu sei ). But we must not identify our guru with the appearance we perceive with our physical senses. Our inner identification of him will be clarified according to the growth of our vision. When our vision increases and takes shape from material to transcendental, his look will also change accordingly. A man is sometimes known most externally, by his uniform, and then by his body, then by his mind, then by his intelligence. As much as our eye will develop to see things rightly, what we are seeing will also change its face. Krsna says, acaryam mam vijaniyan, "Ultimately it is I who am the acarya. " It is the function of divinity, and in different stages there may be different forms. Different acaryas may work at the same time. The knowledge, the ideal, is growing from subtle to gross. And the depth of the vision of the eye will disclose the different figures of the different acaryas. It will go in different rasas to the highest position, by a gradual process of realization. Otherwise our knowledge will be based on the material conception. And to force the material conception onto divinity is a crime, it is ignorance, it is erroneous. We have to free ourselves from the snare of identifying reality with the physical form presented to our senses. The eyes deceive us; they cannot give us the proper form or color. The ears cannot give us the proper sound. The concrete reality is beyond the experience of our senses. So, then what is that thing? Because we are in such a low position, we can gradually go there to the inner world only with the help of our guru. But how can we recognize our guru? Sometimes in the winter he wears a particular dress, and in the summer he wears another dress. If we attach so much importance to the external dress, then what should we do? Should we think that the dress is indispensible to the body? The guru may come to us in a particular body. Suppose the guru appears as a young man. When he has become an old man, and the young form has grown into another form, how are we to recognize him? How are we to differentiate? Again, in one birth, he may have come in a particular body, and another time, he may appear in a different body. The same guru may appear differently at different times. How are we to recognize him? From the external consideration we must go to the internal. If I am devoid of flesh and blood, and I exist only in a subtle body, then I shall also find my guru there, in a subtle body. The demigods, gandharvas, and siddhas, the perfected beings in the heavenly planets, also have their gurus, but they do not have a material body, nor does their guru have a material body. So, by eliminating the external conception, we have to enter into the internal, and that will be all-important to a progressive disciple. That does not mean that one should disregard the physical form of our guru. But the real importance is within. We must worship the remnants of the guru, his coat, his boot, his sandal. But that does not mean that his shoe is superior to his body; we must serve his person. In a similar way, if we are eager to do some physical service for him, if we want to massage his feet, but he does not desire that, and says, "No, no, no," then should we do that? Our internal obedience to him will be higher. In this way, we have to make progress from the gross to the subtle. Who is guru? Where is he to be located? What is his ideal? What does he really want me to do? These things must not be dismissed from our ears. We must not give only formal adherence. We want the spiritual way. The spiritual man is going to the spiritual world to have the spiritual realization. It is all a spiritual transaction. And all conceptions of mundane, whether physical, mental, or intellectual, should be eliminated in our journey if we want to go to the inner world of substance.

True. Too bad the G.M. gurus could not have been incorporated into ISKCON after the failure of the G.B.C. Rubber Stamp Guru System.

I find it interesting that the first author identifies himself by his initiated name only. The second author who wraps himself so tightly in the flag of Srila Prabhupada identifies himself as his initiated name plus ACBSP in parenthesis. It's worth noting that the first author, Loka Guru Prabhu is also a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Where in any article, book or letter did Srila Prabhupada identify himself as Bhaktivedanta Swami (BSST)? Then one must ask why is it that one who advertises himself as a "chaste" disciple of Srila Prabhupada has gone along with a concocted invention using the designation, (ACBSP), after his initiated name? The answer is self evident: He is free to misinterpret his spiritual master's instructions because he has no guidance other than his mind and the mind of other confused neophytes. Here is more proof that the living guidance of a sadhu is needed at every step on the path of bhakti, unless you are that sadhu.

We are all indebted to you for these pictures.

I am not assuming that, but you are implying that you know everything about Sridhar Maharaja.

Yes but this assumes that the "innocent" will be able to detect and feel the love behind the warnings or chastisement. Generally a "guru" or one who is filled with divine love is the only one who can do this. But what we see here, and especially in the campaign against Narayana Maharaja is persons with a lower adhikara, not filled with divine love, venting the negativity in their material minds and hearts onto the followers of other gurus. Who can detect the "love", if its not there? And what about those devotees who are neutral or haven't yet made up their minds? Some are becoming so dismayed by these "anti-campaigns" that they are now struggling to maintain faith in any brand of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Gaudiya Vaisnava organizations are no longer confined by the walls of their temples, or even the printing press. The internet revolution allows almost anyone to publish anything, anywhere. If Gaudiya Vaisnavism is to begin to once again appear relevant to the general public, the constant infighting and bickering must stop. Unfortunately some who live in the internet age and think in the printing press age are not seeing the changing environment, and still use us and them, to control their neophyte followers. In the long run they will learn this is a strategy can can no longer work in an era when so many can instantly share their views. How much spiritual distruction will be wreaked by them in the mean time?

You are is assuming that Srila Sridhar Maharaja reavealed his entire realisation and experience to the general devotee class. Given his nature and conception, I'm not so sure about this.

Do Not Imitate Advanced Devotees BY: PROMOD M. PATEL June 29, USA (SUN) — Srila Narayana Maharaja gives classes warning followers to be careful not to imitate advanced devotees. The following discourse was given in Australia on December 3, 2002. The devotees had just sung the kirtana Sri Madhurastakam, and then Srila Narayana Maharaja began his class: "Srila Vallabhacarya's bhajana, Sri Madhurastakam, tells us that everything is sweet (madhura) about Krsna, the original Lord of sweetness. His Yamuna is madhura, His nikunjas (groves wherein Radha and Krsna perform their confidential amorous pastimes) are madhura, and His flute-playing and sidelong glances are also very sweet. "Who is actually speaking about the sweetness of Krsna here? Is it Kamsa Maharaja, Aghasura, Bakasura, or Putana? Radhika herself is telling this; She alone is qualified to speak in this way. The history behind Her words is this: "A sakhi once told Her, 'Krsna has left Vrndavana. He now has 16,108 queens, and millions of others also want to marry Him. Why do You have so much love and affection for that crooked Krsna? He has no love for You and no love for Vrndavana. Give Him up and try to forget Him forever.' Srimati Radhika replied, 'O sakhi, what you are saying is true, but I cannot forget Him. Everything about Him is so sweet.' "Demons like Kamsa, Jarasandha, Duryodhana, Putana, Bakasura, Aghasura, Kesi, Canura, and Mustika were seeing that very same Krsna, but they thought of Him as a very cruel, powerful and dangerous enemy. They did not see or experience His sweetness. "Do you know why I am speaking in this way? These demons are against Krsna. Therefore, instead of experiencing His sweetness, they simply experience their own enmity. Similarly, if we imagine that we are meditating on Krsna's asta-kaliya-lila and we have not reached the stage of rati, we will also not experience His sweetness. Rather, we will experience our own lusty and other material desires. In this connection, Kamsa and other demons represent our material desires. Krsna and the realization of the sweetness of Krsna is our goal, but do not try to 'jump up to the top of the tree.' Begin from the root of the tree and climb up from there; then you can realize your goal. "One must follow the proper process of his bhakti from the beginning: 'In the beginning one must have a preliminary desire for self-realization. This will bring one to the stage of trying to associate with persons who are spiritually elevated. In the next stage one becomes initiated by an elevated spiritual master, and under his instruction the neophyte devotee begins the process of devotional service. By execution of devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master, one becomes free from all material attachment, attains steadiness in self-realization, and acquires a taste for hearing about the Absolute Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna. This taste leads one further forward to attachment for Krsna consciousness, which is matured in bhava, or the preliminary stage of transcendental love of God. Real love for God is called prema, the highest perfectional stage of life. In the prema stage there is constant engagement in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. So, by the gradual process of devotional service, under the guidance of the bona fide spiritual master, one can attain the highest stage.' (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.4.15-16) "You must also be able to follow these principles: 'When the seed of ecstatic emotion for Krsna fructifies, the following nine symptoms manifest in one’s behavior: forgiveness, concern that time should not be wasted, detachment, absence of false prestige, hope, eagerness, a taste for chanting the holy name of the Lord, attachment to descriptions of the transcendental qualities of the Lord, and affection for those places where the Lord resides-that is, a temple or a holy place like Vrndavana. These are all called anubhava, subordinate signs of ecstatic emotion. They are visible in a person in whose heart the seed of love of God has begun to fructify.' (Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 23.18-19) "If you can follow these above-mentioned two slokas, then you can realize something of the goal - otherwise not. I know, and I see, that in Western and Eastern countries, here and there, many of the devotees want to enter asta-kaliya-lila (Sri Sri Radha-Krsna's eight-fold daily pastimes, from morning to next morning), although they do not even know what it is. "We must be very careful. Our Gosvamis have warned us not to delve very much into this subject matter. This topic is truly our goal, but we can only realize it by following the proper process for advancement in bhakti. If a person has many worldly desires and is attached to women, wine and wealth, how can he properly meditate on asta-kaliya-lila? If one misunderstands his own identity and considers himself to be his body, he will not be able to properly think about asta-kaliya-lila. "Suppose a man or a woman tries to think about Radha-Krsna's pastimes at midnight, for example. Suppose they try to remember how all the gopis left their homes and met Krsna alone, and moreover how Krsna left all the gopis at night and took only Srimati Radhika in a kunja, where They played together. What will he or she think about it? Moreover, if such a man and woman meet together at night 'to discuss these topics', what will be the ultimate result of their 'love'? They are bound to feel lust, and thus they will not be able to control their minds. Their characters will be ruined and they will ruin their entire spiritual lives. Do you understand what I am saying? We should not even think about this topic. "A young - or old - person may remember the following verse: 'O Govardhana! Please grant me a dwelling near your side so that I can easily witness and serve the youthful lovers Sri Radha-Krsna as They perform newer and newer secret, amorous lilas within your many caves where They become completely maddened from drinking prema. You are present and making everything possible.' (Srimad Raghunatha dasa Gosvami's Sri Govardhana-Vasa-Prarthana-Dasakam, verse 2) In this verse it is suggested that Radha and Krsna are meeting together and embracing. If a devotee who is not very advanced tries to meditate on this, a worldly conception is bound to come. Therefore, always be careful. Sri Sukadeva Gosvami, who is a maha-mahabhagavata, is so detached from material consideration and possessions that he does not even wear a dor-kaupin (loincloth), nor does he even have a bhajana kutira. He is totally renounced. For him, there is no difference between the most beautiful naked lady and a dry wooden tree. He has no interest at all in the affairs of men and women. Yet, that Sukadeva Gosvami offers reverential pranama to Rasa-lila and asta-kaliya-lila. Although service to that madhura Krsna like that of the gopis is our goal, we cannot pretend to be close to it at our stage. "Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has written: 'Bhagavan Vrajendra-nandana Sri Krsna and His transcendental abode Sri Vrndavana-dhama are my worshipable objects. The most excellent method of worshipping Krsna is that adopted by the gopa-ramanis, the young wives of Vraja. Srimad-Bhagavatam is the flawless and most authoritative scripture, and Krsna-prema is the fifth and highest achievement of human life beyond dharma, artha, kama and moksa. It is thus known as pancama-purusartha or parama-purusartha. This is the opinion of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. We have supreme regard for this conclusion. We have no inclination or respect for any other, cheating opinions.' "The highest examples of love and affection in service to Krsna are the gopis - but this does not apply to all the gopis. This highest service cannot even be performed by Srimati Lalita or Srimati Visakha or by others like them. Such service can only be executed by gopis like Sri Rupa-manjari and Sri Rati-manjari. Lalita and Visakha cannot enter a kunja in which Radha and Krsna are alone and engaged in Their most intimate amorous pastimes, but the manjaris can enter without hesitation and they can serve both Radha and Krsna there. "We must be very careful. We should not discuss the confidential matters of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna before the general public. Be careful. Otherwise, ladies, especially, will be charmed by hearing from you - they will weep, they will run after you, and your character will be lost. Always try to follow the teachings of the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, and try to follow Srila Rupa Gosvami's Upadesamrta and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami's Sri Manah-Siksa. Then try to gradually come to the stage of rati, at which time all of Krsna's pastimes will automatically manifest in a very pure form. Try to follow my instructions. Follow the proper procedures delineated by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, by our guru-varga, and especially by Sri Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. "Sri Krsna-dvaipayana Vyasa and Srila Sukadeva Gosvami have somewhat explained about the goal of our life in the descriptions of the incarnations Matsya, and Kurma, and in descriptions of Varaha, Narasimha, Rama, Parasurama, Vamana, and Kalki. They have kept all the madhura-lila in the Tenth Canto, and there they have explained our aim and object fully. "Krsna Himself became each of the incarnations, like Matsya, Kurma, Varaha, Narasimha, Vamana, Balarama and Kalki. They are all Him; but He is playing the role of being Them. Sri Jayadeva Gosvami sings in his Sri Dasavatara-Stotram: sri-jayadeva-kaver idam uditam udaramsrnu sukha-dam subha-dam bhava-saram kesava dhrta-dasa-vidha-rupa! jaya jagadisa! Hare ["O Kesava! O You who assume these ten forms! O Jagadisa! O You who remove Your devotees' material desires! All glories to You! My humble supplication at Your lotus feet is that You please hear this Dasavatara-Stotra composed by the poet Jayadeva, because it describes the essence of Your incarnations and is most excellent, bestowing happiness and auspiciousness." (Sri Dasavatara-Stotram, verse 11)] "In this connection, Kesava means Vrajendranandana Sri Krsna. That same Krsna is our goal. To serve Him like the gopis is certainly our goal; but be very careful, otherwise you will follow the path of Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura and Kamsa. You will be bound to be like them. Sri Sukadeva Gosvami began speaking about the topics of bhakti from its beginning stages, as well as the processes to achieve the various stages of bhakti. "Then, in the Eleventh Canto, they discussed Sri Narada Muni's explaining to Vasudeva about the topics instructed by the Navayogendras to Maharaja Nimi. For example, the Navayogendras explained about the 24 gurus, including the air and the Earth. From the air one can learn detachment and from the Earth one can learn tolerance. In those texts, the processes to achieve the highest goal given in the Tenth Canto have also been explained. "The same goal of life has been expressed in a still better way in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. In the very beginning of that sastra, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami explained our ultimate aim and object as follows: anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirnah kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam-bhakti-sriyam harih purata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandipitah sada hrdaya-kandare sphuratu vah saci-nandanah ["May the Supreme Lord who is known as the son of Srimati Sacidevi be transcendentally situated in the innermost chambers of your heart. Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation has ever offered before: the most sublime and radiant mellow of devotional service, the mellow of conjugal love." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.4)] radha krsna-pranaya-vikrtir hladini saktir asmad ekatmanav api bhuvi pura deha-bhedam gatau tau caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam radha-bhava-dyuti-suvalitam naumi krsna-svarupam ["The loving affairs of Sri Radha and Krsna are transcendental manifestations of the Lord’s internal pleasure-giving potency. Although Radha and Krsna are one in Their identity, They separated Themselves eternally. Now these two transcendental identities have again united, in the form of Sri Krsna Caitanya. I bow down to Him, who has manifested Himself with the sentiment and complexion of Srimati Radharani although He is Krsna Himself." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.5)] sri-radhayah pranaya-mahima kidrso vanayaiva- svadyo yenadbhuta-madhurima kidrso va Madhya saukhyam casya mad-anubhavatah kidrsam veti lobhat tad-bhavadhyah samajani saci-garbha-sindhau harinduh ["Desiring to understand the glory of Radharani’s love, the wonderful qualities in Him that She alone relishes through Her love, and the happiness She feels when She realizes the sweetness of His love, the Supreme Lord Hari, richly endowed with Her emotions, appeared from the womb of Srimati Sacidevi, as the moon appeared from the ocean." (Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.6)] "Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami especially explained the goal and process to achieve it in the fourth chapter of Adi-lila and in Sri Raya Ramananda Samvada. Also, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructed the process to Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Sanatana Gosvami, in chapters 19 and 20-23, respectively. "Be careful about being at the bottom of the tree and, from there, jumping to the top. Do not go in the direction of fire; otherwise you will be burned. "It is not sufficient merely to speak about the proper established philosophical truths (siddhanta) and processes of bhakti. Try to be actually realized in this. If you do not follow, you cannot advance in actual Krsna consciousness. "Suppose a disciple is always glorifying Krsna and His sweet pastimes. That disciple is always chanting, but he does not have very much faith in his guru. Suppose he is chanting a hundred-thousand names daily and is always reading about the pastimes of Krsna and glorifying Him, but he is not following his Gurudeva's orders. He sometimes follows his Guru's orders and sometimes does not. Sometimes he follows his uncontrolled mind and not the process and teachings of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Prabhupada, and he does not behave as his Guru desires. What will be the result? He will not get perfection. yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau tasyaite kathita hy arthah prakasante mahatmanah ["Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed." (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23).]

All Gaudiya Vaishnava's agree with your point. Can you respond to Shakti-fan's post?

In the essay "Thakura Bhaktivinode", Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura has written, “THE ABSOLUTE APPEARS TO THE LISTENING EAR OF THE CONDITIONED SOUL IN THE FORM OF THE NAME ON THE LIPS OF THE SADHU. THIS IS THE KEY TO THE WHOLE POSITION.” “KRSNA'S DARSAN CAN ONLY BE ATTAINED THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF THE EAR AS ONE HEARS HARI-KATHA FROM PURE VAISNAVAS; THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Here's the apparent contradiction right before our eyes. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura is writing this for us to read. Yet he appears to contradict himself if we follow your line of thought, but of course he does not. Srila Sridhar Maharaja would always say that, "there is gradation everywhere". This means that Gaudiya Vaisnavas don't see black and white but rather shades of gray. (By the way this is metaphorical). So the written and electronically records of the transcendental sound vibration are there to help us understand transcendental knowledge. If we read carefully then we will develop the sukriti and consequently the desire to associate with a pure sadhu and here the sabda brahma from his or her lotus lips. If no such sadhu is available then we will draw our inspiration from such books and electronic recordings. But it is a serious error to assume that no such soul is available even after an exhaustive search. Srila Sridhar Maharaja would say, "suspicion breads suspension". A cynical attitude is hard to harmonize with Srila Prabhupada's concept of "love and trust".

From another angle of vision the guru's body is purely spiritual.

Yes, because of his status as a mahabhagavat and shaktyavesa avatara of Lord Nityananda. Even if a sincere high madhyama adhikari guru uses such a process then Nityananda Prabhu, who is the akhanda guru, may make up for any apparent lacking, yoga ksemam vahamy aham. I carry what they lack and preserve what they have (BG 9.22) This being said, one disciple of Srila Prabhupada told me that the tape malfunctioned so he actually received the gayatri mantras from the temple president who was unbenownst to him, having an affair with his wife. Given this kind of possibility try to receive the mantras directly by hook or by crook. I think in the final anaysis this is all dependent on ones sukriti.

<!--StartFragment --> A Response to "The Manifest Presence of Sound" BY: BALA DASA May 26, USA (SUN) — Beware of Logic Leaping “Manifest Pure Devotees”. In a recent rebuttal to Dhira Govinda Prabhu entitled “The Manifest Presence of Sound” , Bhagavat Das tacitly requests that we readers suspend our logical faculties as he does that very thing in order to get his illusory points across. I will illuminate his faulty line of reasoning as exemplified in the first ¼ of his article using a few examples among a score of the leaps of logic that characterize his article, and hope that the readers will be able to envision how others employing these methods represent clear and present danger to just waking up to Bhakti yoga. Bhagavat Das’ comments will be indicated by BD. Bhagavat Das states his purpose: “The process of how we study his (Srila Prabhupada’s) books is of utmost importance and that is what I intend to explain in this article.” First, he repeats a quotation from Srila Prabhupada as follows. Srila Prabhupada wrote to Rupanuga Prabhu: “Anyone who reads the books that is also chanting and hearing. Why distinguish between chanting and book distribution? These books I have recorded and chanted, and they are transcribed. It is spoken kirtanas. So book distribution is also chanting. These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing.” (Oct. 19, 1974) Key statement to remember here: “Anyone who reads the books that is also chanting and hearing” Then he quotes Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur: “Any meaning of the Scriptures that belittles the function of the devotee who is the original communicant of the Divine Message contradicts its own claim to be heard.” He claims the above statement “raises an important question about how one can access the hidden mysteries of the scriptures” So what is his answer to this question? BD: “If a person believes that they can study and understand the scriptures independent of the guidance of the manifest pure devotee through hearing the transcendental sound vibration from his lotus lips, than that interpretation of the scriptures contradicts its own claim to even be heard.” So his conclusion is that the incorrect meaning of Scripture which belittles the function of the original communicant is automatically drawn by someone studying the scriptures independent of the guidance of a “MANIFEST pure devotee” He previously defined the parameters of the above premise by defining “Manifest” by writing the following in regards to Dhira Govinda’s beliefs, saying: “Let’s see if he is really proposing that one can connect to the spiritual master through his books after he is no longer manifest on the planet.” In his first attempt to back up his premise, he uses a statement from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati regarding misinterpretation of Bhaktivinode’s Life and Teachings. “There have, however, already arisen serious misunderstandings regarding the proper interpretation of the life and teachings of Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda. Those who suppose they understand the meaning of his message without securing the guiding grace of the Acarya are disposed to unduly favor the methods of empiric study of his writings. There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning. Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words. There is no honest chance of missing the warnings of Thakura Bhaktivinoda. Those, therefore, who are misled by the perusal of his writings are led astray by their own obstinate perversity in sticking to the empiric course which they prefer to cherish against his explicit warnings. Let these unfortunate persons look more carefully into their own hearts for the cause of their misfortunes. The personal service of the pure devotee is essential for understanding the spiritual meaning of the words of Thakura Bhaktivinoda.” Here is how Bhagavat Das uses the above to support his Theory. BD: “Srila Saraswati Thakura states that without the guiding grace of the manifest acharya and the personal service to his lotus feet the spiritual meaning of the words of Thakura Bhaktivinode cannot be understood. Some may try to misinterpret the meaning of these words to say that the pure devotee can be served even after his manifest pastimes and this is indeed true.” This was my first hint that he was about to wander astray from logic, or else why does he set up his next statement with a such a contradiction. How can a misinterpretation be true? He plants the seed that he is about to address “Some” who “may try to misinterpret”, and then concedes that it is not really a misinterpretation?? Then he goes on. BD: “However why then is Srila Saraswati Thakura making an issue of the fact that even those who memorize the books of the Thakura cannot understanding their meaning without being under the guidance of the Acharya?” There is an answer to this question, but as I will show it is not what Bhagavat Das thinks it is. If the acahrya he is talking about is the one who is not manifest at present than what guidance would he give accept that which is in his books which Srila Saraswati Thakura is saying one cannot understand without the guiding grace of the Acharya. Now hearken back to the original full context, and we can see that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta addresses this directly. “There have, however, already arisen serious misunderstandings regarding the proper interpretation of the life and teachings of Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda.” He is addressing those who seek to understand the TEACHINGS of Bhakitvinode. “Those who suppose they understand the meaning of his message without securing the guiding grace of the Acarya are disposed to unduly favor the methods of empiric study of his writings.” Without securing the guiding grace of the Acarya they favor empiric study and miss Bhaktivinode’s message. “There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning.” They memorized the words only. “Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words.” So here we see it is an inner orientation based on sincerity, or lack thereof which counts. Those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions “lucidly conveyed by his words” are the ones who study superficially, and “are misled by the perusal of his writings (and) are led astray by their own obstinate perversity in sticking to the empiric course” Bhaktivinode gave LUCID INSTRUCTIONS, that were not obeyed. This is not pleasing to him. Thus such persons are not serving his pleasure. Thus they do not secure the grace of the Acharya or teacher who is instructing them. And they are criticized by Bhaktisiddhanta in order that others who wish to understand Bhaktivinode or any Acharya might get the clue that they need to follow their instructions. Quite Simple. Now that we have heard from Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhu’s own lotus lips as to what he meant, let us see how Bhagavat Das tries to use this to support his premise. First to repeat the question “However why then is Srila Saraswati Thakura making an issue of the fact that even those who memorize the books of the Thakura cannot understanding their meaning without being under the guidance of the Acharya?” Bhagavat Das says next… BD: “If the acahrya he is talking about is the one who is not manifest at present than what guidance would he give accept that which is in his books which Srila Saraswati Thakura is saying one cannot understand without the guiding grace of the Acharya.” * Remember Guiding Grace is received when the Guidance or instructions are followed and acted on, not memorized as empty words. BD: “Which acharya? Obviously the present manifest acharya, himself.” Here Bhagavat Das reveals his agenda. Obviously, he says, the acharya Bhaktisiddhanta is speaking of is himself? The “present manifest acharya”? Not so obvious to me. But he reveals his bias towards the Supreme importance of a so called “present manifest acharya” He goes on to try to show that Bhaktivinode Thakur agrees with his “assessment” (read speculation). BD: “Let’s see if Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura agrees with this assessment. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura states as follows: “What can we gather from the words of this Mahajana Srila Ragunatha Das Goswami? We understand that the desire for pratistha can never be removed by studying and discussing shastra, by hearing instructions from those who have not attained prema, nor by practicing various bodily processes of yoga. It can only be removed by associating with and serving visuddha vaisnavas. Having searched for and found such vaisnavas, it is our ultimate goal to associate with and serve them.” Pratistha Parivarjana By Thakura Bhaktivinode BD: “Here Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is very direct, You cannot remove the false egotistical covering (pratistha) and realize your true spiritual form by studying books, discussing books, hearing books being recited by those who are not Prema Bhaktas or by doing yoga exercise…” I’m sorry, that is not exactly what Bhaktivinode says. Using a Neither/Nor statement (“Neither” implied) he lists three separate processes which cannot remove the desire for paratistha. by studying and discussing shastra by hearing instructions from those who have not attained prema nor by practicing various bodily processes of yoga So what can remove the desire? “It can only be removed by associating with and serving visuddha vaisnavas.” Of course serving my Acharya and Prema Bhakta, AC Bhaktivedanta Swami, INCLUDES studying and discussing shastra, especially as he explained in his purports how he, a pure devotee, understands its meaning. But that alone is not total service, as there were instructions which I HEARD from him, but also need to be FOLLOWED. And he stressed that association is through sound vibration and his physical presence is not necessary. Among dozens of similar statements to that effect is the following. Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. SP Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67 Unfortunately, here is where Bhagavat Das falls irrevocably into the realm of speculation by next stating that what Bhaktivinode was really saying was that… BD: “Only by direct association of vishuddha vaishnava’s which are presently manifesting their pastimes on the planet.” (can one remove the desire for pratistha). Obviously equating direct association with one needing to be presently manifesting pastimes on the planet is his own speculative convention, as he fails to back this up with quotes from any Prema Bhakta, but gives his own defense… BD: “If you were to interpret this association with the pure devotees to include those who were not manifest on the planet at this time then you would have to associate through the books which have already been rejected as a way for the condition soul to remove pratistha by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura.” Oops. Too bad he didn’t have a time machine so he could have read this article. Once more though, he uses a quote from A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami in an attempt to justify his position. BD: “One may ask does Srila Prabhupada teach this. Let’s look at the following purport by Srila Prabhupada.” “One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaisnava.” Purport to CC Antya 7:53 By Srila Prabhupada BD: “Srila Prabhupada repeats the same concept as Thakura Bhaktivinode by saying if one is full of pratistha (pride) and thinks he can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books then his conclusion is wrong. One must become the servant of a manifest Vaishnava.” There is that glaring “Manifest” agenda again, so strongly imposing upon his mind that he hears it where it is not spoken. Regardless, a proud person thinking they can understand loving service SIMPLY by reading books, cannot, despite all the sophistry at his beck and call, be construed to mean anything but what it “simply” states. My Srila Prabhupada mentions only one method being employed by these proud people. And we know that simply or ONLY reading books will not suffice. This type of false reasoning continues, and does not bear repeating. What is important to me to finally convey to anyone reading here who may have initially agreed with the illusory arguments of Bhagavat Das is what causes someone like him to make such mistakes, and what it means to anyone who is initially taken in by his pronouncements and where it could lead for an innocent aspirant. I will illustrate by asking a question. Why the constant focus on there need for there to be a pure devotee Acharya in a physical body or “manifest” on the planet in order to understand Srila Prabhupada’s books and instructions? To answer this question, a hint is in the following quote by Bhagavat Das from deeper into the previous article in question. BD: “It is true that the presence of the author, Srila Prabhupada, is not required to understand the books. However to understand his books properly not even Srila Prabhupada’s purports will serve to fully explain their real meaning. The manifest presence of someone who knows the subject matter is absolutely required.” Now take into consideration all of the other false arguments he made, and how if you read his article carefully, he constantly puts words into my Srila Prabhupada’s mouth that were not his, like “manifest” and hearing “with your ears” etc. He continually harps on a need for an acharya or guru “manifesting his pastimes on this planet” like here… BD: “Unfortunately Dhira Govinda Prabhu fails to explain that the Spiritual Master has to make a conscious choice to accept the service of the disciple. This is done when the particular guru who is representing the Sampradaya is manifesting his pastimes on this planet.” This even though Srila Prabhupada accepted service of hundreds of disciples BY PROXY WITHOUT EVER MEETING THEM, and that after he was gone officiating acharyas could continue to accept disciples on his behalf. So Bhagavat Das now says that to understand the books, one needs the manifest presence of someone who knows the subject matter. So first the acharya is dead and gone. No longer manifest. Unable to receive direct service anymore. As a matter of fact Bhagavat Das goes so far as to propose that he has a direct line on where the Latest great acharya is! BD: “Srila Prabhupada is presently preparing to initiate on another planet in another universe and is no longer making conscious decisions to accept disciples on this planet in this universe.” So now it only stands to reason, that parallel to his assumption that only by having the “manifestly present acharya” in the person of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati to reiterate the “LUCID instructions” of dead and gone Bhaktivinode, and serving Bhaktisiddhanta “directly” (giving him massage? Doing his laundry?) can one understand Bhaktivinode’s instructions… That similarly, today and from here on in, the only way a person can “understand” Srila Prabhupada’s purports and instructions is via a “presently manifest pure devotee acharya???” Uh-Oh. Who might that be? Truly, anyone who knows the subject matter of his books can aid someone with questions and help them understand my Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. But to KNOW it requires more than memorization of the words, but “acting up to the instructions” and knowing in their hearts. MY POINT is that there are Hundreds if not Thousands of people who have not yet taken to HEART and ACTED UPON the INSTRUCTIONS offered by the Great Acharya A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and these same persons, having good MEMORY know the material in his books quite well, and are more than ready to satisfy their natural human need for gratification of the subtle senses of fame and prestige without earning it and will twist and distort my Srila Prabhupada’s words and even claim inside knowledge of his current whereabouts and whatever else it takes to gain the attention of naïve and unwitting souls. Thus by banking on Srila Prabhupada’s charisma and flowery words of his Veda, they are satisfying, in a perverted way, their need for attention, fame, and even YOUR FORTUNE if you are not Careful. Be especially aware of anyone who claims that you cannot understand my Srila Prabhupada’s books and instructions without another person to interpret them for you!!! If you can read English and can and are willing to follow his instructions, that is good enough, and you will gradually understand the purport of his teachings. Welcome to Bhakti Yoga. This type of thing makes me angry and sad, and that is why I spent the last 3 hours in this labor of love. And to Bhagavat Das, I am sorry if my style of writing and exposing your illusion causes you pain and I hope that you yourself will be more careful what you say in public around innocent people. Hare Krsna your servant, Bala Das <!--StartFragment --> Real Process is Hearing BY: BHAGAVAT DAS ACBSP May 28, USA (SUN) — My Dear Bala Dasa, I personally feel no pain from your statements. However, I feel sorry that you are unable to understand the direct and unambiguous statements of the Acharya’s. Please understand that the service of the manifest Acharya does not necessarily have to do with giving massage and doing laundry for him. Although Narottama Das Thakura obtained the mercy of Lokanatha Goswami by cleaning the place where he passed stool everyday. However, if you read my article carefully you would have seen that this type of service is not the focus of what I wrote about. The service that I repeatedly mentioned which is absolutely and ultimately required to achieve Prema is to hear the transcendental sound vibration from the lotus lips of the pure devotee who is manifest in the present in front of you so you can hear with your ears. You accuse me of putting words in Srila Prabhupada’s mouth as follows: Bala Dasa Says: Now take into consideration all of the other false arguments he made, and how if you read his article carefully, he constantly puts words into my Srila Prabhupada’s mouth that were not his, like “manifest” and hearing “with your ears” etc. Did you not read the quote that Srila Saraswati Thakura made which I put in the article? Let me refresh your memory: “KRSNA'S DARSAN CAN ONLY BE ATTAINED THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF THE EAR AS ONE HEARS HARI-KATHA FROM PURE VAISNAVAS; THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.” If Krsna’s Darshan (seeing Krishna) is the goal and Srila Saraswati Thakur states that this vision of Krishna is only attained through the medium of the ears as one hears Hari Katha from a pure Vaishnava then how do you interpret this to mean reading a book with your eyes when the pure Vaishnava is not standing there in front of you speaking. Do you think Srila Prabhupada is teaching something different than Srila Saraswati Thakura let me show you some quotes of Srila Prabhupada’s that again mirrors this statement of his guru maharaja: ... “Here is another important point. We have to learn by listening from somebody. We approach guru for hearing from him the truth. Just like child listens from the parents and he learns to speak, he learns to know what is what…….. So hearing is very important. Therefore our bhakti process, bhakti-yoga process is hearing. The more you give aural reception to the transcendental message, more you become expert. Everyone has got God-gifted instrument, this ear. And if we give aural reception, we'll learn” Srila Prabhupada is giving the example here that the child hears with his ears from the mouth of his parents who are in front of him not from a book. Srila Prabhupada says we have a God-gifted instrument the ear and we learn by listening from somebody who is manifest before you. Srila Prabhupada says by giving aural reception with your ear to the transcendental message from the mouth of the guru before you then you will learn. Srila Prabhupada says this, these are not my words they are his words read what the quote says. Srila Prabhupada says “bhakti-yoga process is hearing” welcome to the real process of bhakti yoga Bala dasa. These are Srila Prabhupada’s words please take note of them. “Simply you lend your ear to the discourses given by realized souls. This is recommended. And when you hear, then you contemplate also. Just like you are hearing me. Sruti means just receiving through the ear”. Here again Srila Prabhupada says by giving aural reception with your ear to the transcendental message from his mouth. Just like you are hearing me. Sruti means just receiving through the ear”. Srila Prabhupada is present before his disciples speaking with his mouth and he tells his disciples who are listening to the words from his mouth with their ears: “Just like you are hearing me. Sruti means just receiving through the ear”. These are Srila Prabhupada’s words not mine. He is saying that it is recommended that you lend your ear to the discourses given by realized souls. These are Srila Prabhupada’s words not mine. “One must hear from those who are in the line of preceptorial succession, or disciplic succession. Another meaning of the word srotriyam mentioned above is “one who has heard from a guru in the disciplic succession.” And the result of this hearing will be brahma-niñöham, “The Upaninads inform us that the guru is one who has received knowledge by hearing the Vedas. Srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12]. The Vedas are called sruti, and the bona fide guru is in the line of hearing from the disciplic succession. As stated in Bhagavad-gita (4.2), evam parampara-praptam. A bona fide guru does not impart some self-styled, concocted knowledge; his knowledge is standard and received from the parampara system. He is also firmly fixed in the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead (brahma-nistham). These are his two qualifications: he must have heard the Vedic knowledge through the disciplic succession, and he must be established in service to the Supreme Lord. He does not have to be a very learned scholar, but he must have heard from the proper authority. God gives us the ears to hear, and simply by hearing we may become great preachers”. TLK-VS. 4 Over and over Srila Prabhupada emphasizes hearing: The guru receives knowledge by hearing . The bona fide guru is in the line of hearing . He must have heard through the disciplic succession. God gives us ears to hear . Simply by hearing we may become great preachers. These are all Srila Prabhupada’s words not mine! What does this have to do with the eyes and reading books? Still not convinced here is some more: “So hearing is so important. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's preaching work... Caitanya Mahaprabhu's, this propaganda of sankirtana movement, He has given stress on this hearing process. Regardless of one’s condition of life, if he practices bhakti-yoga, which begins with hearing (sruti-gatam) the transcendental messages of the Lord through the mouths of devotees, he gradually conquers the unconquerable God”. <CENTER> VERSE </CENTER> My dear Lord, You are glorified by the selected verses uttered by great personalities. Such glorification of Your lotus feet is just like saffron particles. When the transcendental vibration from the mouths of great devotees carries the aroma of the saffron dust of Your lotus feet, the forgetful living entity gradually remembers his eternal relationship with You. Devotees thus gradually come to the right conclusion about the value of life. My dear Lord, I therefore do not need any other benediction but the opportunity to hear from the mouth of Your pure devotee. <CENTER> PURPORT </CENTER> It is explained in the previous verse that one has to hear glorification of the Lord from the mouth of a pure devotee. This is further explained here. The transcendental vibration from the mouth of a pure devotee is so powerful that it can revive the living entity’s memory of his eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In our material existence, under the influence of illusory mäyä, we have almost forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord, exactly like a man sleeping very deeply who forgets his duties. In the Vedas it is said that every one of us is sleeping under the influence of maya. We must get up from this slumber and engage in the right service, for thus we can properly utilize the facility of this human form of life. As expressed in a song by Öhäkura Bhaktivinoda, Lord Caitanya says, jiva jaga, jiva jaga. The Lord asks every sleeping living entity to get up and engage in devotional service so that his mission in this human form of life may be fulfilled. This awakening voice comes through the mouth of a pure devotee. A pure devotee always engages in the service of the Lord, taking shelter of His lotus feet, and therefore he has a direct connection with the saffron mercy-particles that are strewn over the lotus feet of the Lord. Although when a pure devotee speaks the articulation of his voice may resemble the sound of this material sky, the voice is spiritually very powerful because it touches the particles of saffron dust on the lotus feet of the Lord. As soon as a sleeping living entity hears the powerful voice emanating from the mouth of a pure devotee, he immediately remembers his eternal relationship with the Lord, although up until that moment he had forgotten everything. For a conditioned soul, therefore, it is very important to hear from the mouth of a pure devotee, who is fully surrendered to the lotus feet of the Lord without any material desire, speculative knowledge or contamination of the modes of material nature. Every one of us is kuyogi because we have engaged in the service of this material world, forgetting our eternal relationship with the Lord as His eternal loving servants. It is our duty to rise from the kuyoga platform to become suyogis, perfect mystics. The process of hearing from a pure devotee is recommended in all Vedic scriptures, especially by Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu. One may stay in his position of life-it does not matter what it is-but if one hears from the mouth of a pure devotee, he gradually comes to the understanding of his relationship with the Lord and thus engages in His loving service, and his life becomes completely perfect. Therefore, this process of hearing from the mouth of a pure devotee is very important for making progress in the line of spiritual understanding. SB 4-20-25 In order to emphasize the point given in this verse and purport we are going to list and number the phrases that state the importance of hearing from the Lotus Mouth of a Pure Devotee. 1) When the transcendental vibration from the mouths of great devotees 2) I therefore do not need any other benediction but the opportunity to hear from the mouth of Your pure devotee. 3) one has to hear glorification of the Lord from the mouth of a pure devotee. 4) The transcendental vibration from the mouth of a pure devotee. 5) This awakening voice comes through the mouth of a pure devotee. 6) As soon as a sleeping living entity hears the powerful voice emanating from the mouth of a pure devotee. 7) it is very important to hear from the mouth of a pure devotee, 8) The process of hearing from a pure devotee is recommended in all Vedic scriptures, 9) if one hears from the mouth of a pure devotee, 10) This process of hearing from the mouth of a pure devotee is very important Ten times this same point is being made, to hear from the mouth of the pure devotee. Srila Prabhupada repeats this over and over again for a reason. It is to make it absolutely clear that you must hear from the mouth of a pure devotee who is manifest before you with your ear as mentioned in five previous quotes. Reading alone will not do. The real mercy comes from hearing from the Lotus Mouth of the Pure Devotee with your ears. This is explained in the verse and elaborated on in the purport by Srila Prabhupada. In the verse Maharaja Prthu explains the importance of hearing from the Lotus Mouth of a pure devotee as follows: “When the transcendental vibration from the mouths of great devotees carries the aroma of the saffron dust of Your lotus feet, the forgetful living entity gradually remembers his eternal relationship with You.” In the purport Srila Prabhupada gives us the actual process of how the transcendental vibration from the mouths of great devotees carries the aroma of the saffron particles as follows: Although when a pure devotee speaks the articulation of his voice may resemble the sound of this material sky, the voice is spiritually very powerful because it touches the particles of saffron dust on the lotus feet of the Lord. When the voice of the pure devotee emanates from his voice box it is infused with the aroma of saffron particles from the Lotus Feet of the Lord. That is because it has touched those saffron particles on the Lotus Feet of the Lord who resides in the spiritual heart of the spiritual body of the pure devotee within his external spiritualized body. It is the aroma of this saffron dust that acts like transcendental smelling salts to wake up the sleeping living entities from their deep slumber in Maya. This transcendental aroma is not revealed inside the words of the books or tapes when you read them or hear them unless you are reading and hearing them under the direct guidance of a realized soul. Please show me the mechanism on the printing press and the tape recorder that captures the aroma of the saffron particles from the lotus feet of the Lord. No such mechanism exists within an inanimate object. The transcendental aroma of the saffron particles comes from the lotus feet of the Lord within the living spiritual heart of the living spiritual body of the pure devotee who resides within his external spiritualized body while he is manifest on the planet. Life comes from life and spiritual life comes from spiritual life not from inanimate objects. Those objects only become completely animate when they are used directly under the guidance of the manifest pure devotee who speaks the transcendental sound vibration in a spiritualized body with his lotus mouth to our spiritually deaf ears! HEARING, HEARING, AND MORE HEARING, this is the prescription Srila Prabhupada keeps emphasizing. The process of hearing the transcendental sound vibration from the mouth and the lips of the manifest pure devotee who is manifesting his pastimes on the planet in his human form and the use of the ear to hear that transcendental sound vibration is the method for obtaining Krsnas Darshan and according to Srila Saraswati Thakura and these above quotes of Srila Prabhupada THERE IS NO OTHER WAY! Still not convinced? Than read the following quotes of Srila Prabhupada: “Reading or hearing from the realized person there is no difference, but hearing the sound vibration from the realized soul is still more effective, better”. “Rather, hearing is better reception. If you hear... That Vedas are therefore known as sruti. Sruti means it is received through hearing. Real process is hearing.” Let’s say that one more time REAL PROCESS IS HEARING! Srila Prabhupada has on occasion equated reading with hearing but he never once elevates the reading process above the hearing process in anything he has ever said or written. However Srila Prabhupada has many, many, times elevated the hearing process over the reading process as I have demonstrated in these quotes and now Srila Prabhupada boldly declares REAL PROCESS IS HEARING . The purpose of reading the books is to understand this point only, that Sadhu Sangha (hearing the transcendental sound vibration from the lotus lips of the Sadhu) is the only way to attain the goal of receiving darshan of Krsna and Krsna Prema. So Bala Das if you have a problem with all of these quotes of Srila Prabhupada and his guru maharaja then argue with them and stop falsely accusing me of putting words into Srila Prabhupada’s mouth. Explain to Srila Prabhupada what the real process of hearing is by writing what you imagine it to be instead of accepting the direct unambiguous meaning of the above mentioned quotes by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada gave me both hari nam and diksha in person by directly speaking the mantras with his lotus mouth into my ear and personally accepted me as his disciple. At my Gayatri diksha initiation He told all the life members assembled there “This is my disciple Bhagavat Das, he is very sincere.” He is also my Srila Prabhupada. Your Worthless Servant Bhagavat Das

Back in '81 Srila Sridhar Maharaja mused about the guru conflict going on in the ISKCON community. He said that he was a "backwards pushing man"; that his nature was to avoid asserting himself and any kind of conflict. He generally advised those who had taken his divine shelter to take the same approach. Then he said ( I am paraphrasing), "actually some will run towards the battle, and that is their nature. Actually all of you are para dukha dukhi, you only care about the sufferring of others. I think that you want others to get what you received during the time of Swami Maharaja (Srila Prabhupada) and that is your concern". During the time of Srila Prabhupada we all preached about the absolute necessity of a living guru or guide. This would often come up when we were speaking with Christians who claim that Jesus Christ was their guru and that there was no use of a living transendental via media to God. Now many of our godbrothers are preaching the same basic idea of the Protestent Christians and this has been going on in some form or other since 1980. Over the years I've come across a number of Srila Prabhupada's direct initiated disciples who never had his personal association. Yet I remember that we all yearned to be in the Srila Prabhupada's personal presence and many of us took great risks such as the wrath of our temple president to due just that. We read his books, heard his books read in class and listened to his taped bhajans and lectures. But we also heard from our senior godbrothers and godsisters about the his amazing personal presence and association. When Srila Prabhupada's followers initiated or not, have the good fortune to have him come to them in a dream, what do they dream? That they are seeing him in a video? No, only if the dream is bizzare and distorted and then certainly disappointing. One wishes to dream that they are directly in Srila Prabhupada's presence and that they are directly hearing the nectarean words emanating from his lotus mouth. Whether the dream is real or not and no matter how much illusion we experience in our every day life our subconcious mind pines for his renewed association and it is the chanting of the Holy Names, the reading of the books and the hearing of the tapes etc. that fuels that fire within us, which is really our only hope. It is the same desire within us to serve Sri Krsna in His holy dhama and in His Pastimes. But now in our conditioned state Krsna can appear before us in a most tangible form, that of Sri Guru, His divine representation or representative. Why would Krsna create a situation where the sincere seekers would be bereft of the association of a pure sadhu or saint? Doesn't he say in the Bhagavad Gita yada yada hi dharmasya: Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that time I descend Myself. And: acaryam mam vijaniyan navamanyeta karhicitna martya-buddhyasuyeta sarva-devamayo guruh "Know the acarya, or guru, to be my very self. Never think of him as an ordinary man. Never disrespect him. Never find fault with him. The guru is the embodiment of all the demigods." Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27) I don't wish to elaborate futher, that is for the real pundits. I don't know if trying to convince others like the so-called Rtviks about these points is "of any benefit" but I am sure that the proper siddhanta (conclusions) and tattva (truths) are most essential.

First of all I am not Bhagavat Prabhu. I saw his article on the Sampradaya Sun and posted it here. Here is a quote from another thread on this forum by Pakaja Prabhu. Many consider that the late Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja was (is) a pure devotee: Devotee #1: Sabda-brahma is Krishna in sound vibration? Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. One has to hear. It is not that, "All right, tapes are there, I'll hear the recorded tapes." Sabda-brahma will never descend. Devotee #2: It doesn't descend through transmission of tape? Gour Govinda Swami: No, no. Devotee #2: Only when you are personally sitting there with a pure vaisnava? Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Now in this material scientific age so many techniques are there. People, say, "No more teacher are required. We'll teach through television." Nonsense. Sabda-brahma will never descend. Devotee #3: What if one is a disciple of a bonafide guru, then later on that guru stops his lila. What should one do? Gour Govinda Swami: Lila is always there

With 14.56% of the vote for the "Prominent Link" theory, why should Dhira Govinda Prabhu admit defeat and quit? Maybe vox populi will prevail and the Democratic Republic of K.C. will come to pass.

The Manifest Presence of Sound <o:p></o:p> BY: Bhagavat Das ACBSP <o:p></o:p> May 18, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">ALACHUA</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">FLORIDA</st1:state></st1:place> (SUN) — Recently Dhira Govinda Prabhu wrote an article called “Sound and Presence” which appeared here on Sampradaya Sun. The article is in my opinion a veiled attempt at trying to promote the idea that Srila Prabhupada can still be the initiating spiritual master of an aspiring devotee today. His quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s letters and books are truths which tell only part of the process of diksha. I have made an examination of the quotes and his conclusions and I have given quotes from Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, and Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, to show that the view I am presenting with these quotes is the view of the entire Parampara. I did him the courtesy of discussing this very article you are about to read with him personally before I put it on the web. I see that he has written another article presenting the most absurd conclusion that it is clear that Srila Prabhupada wanted to be the last Acharya in the Parampara and the most prominent link. I will address this article later for now here is my response to his first article. <o:p></o:p> Let us remember that Srila Prabhupada gave us very clear instructions to study his books. He encouraged us in his books and lectures to read the books of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura and the six Goswamis. And he expected us to become thoroughly knowledgeable about the process of devotional service. The process of how we study his books is of utmost importance and that is what I intend to explain in this article. I will present excerpts from Dhira Govinda Prabhu’s first article followed by my critique with quotes. I will start with the following paragraph which quotes a letter from Srila Prabhupada to Rupanuga Prabhu.<o:p></o:p> Dhira Govinda Prabhu wrote: We receive mercy from the parampara in the opportunity to hear from the members of the parampara. Hearing from the disciplic succession intrinsically implies transcendental sound vibration. Srila Prabhupada wrote to Rupanuga Prabhu “Anyone who reads the books that is also chanting and hearing. Why distinguish between chanting and book distribution? These books I have recorded and chanted, and they are transcribed. It is spoken kirtanas. So book distribution is also chanting. These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing.” (Oct. 19, 1974) <o:p></o:p> This is an interesting quote because it almost exactly mirrors, as many of Srila Prabhupada’s quotes do, a passage written by his Spiritual Master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura in his article “Thakura Bhaktivinode”. Srila Saraswati Thakura says:<o:p></o:p> “What are the Scriptures? They are nothing but the record by the pure devotees of the Divine Message appearing on the lips of the pure devotees. The Message conveyed by the devotees is the same in all ages. The words of the devotees are ever identical with the Scriptures.” <o:p></o:p> This quote is very clearly in complete harmony with the letter to Rupanuga Prabhu. However, the following sentence raises an important question about how one can access the hidden mysteries of the scriptures, the sentence follows:<o:p></o:p> “Any meaning of the Scriptures that belittles the function of the devotee who is the original communicant of the Divine Message contradicts its own claim to be heard.” Thakura Bhaktivinode By Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura<o:p></o:p> If a person believes that they can study and understand the scriptures independent of the guidance of the manifest pure devotee through hearing the transcendental sound vibration from his lotus lips, than that interpretation of the scriptures contradicts its own claim to even be heard. Let’s see if this is where Dhira Govinda Prabhu is going with this. Let’s see if he is really proposing that one can connect to the spiritual master through his books after he is no longer manifest on the planet.<o:p></o:p> Dhira Govinda Prabhu wrote: “In Vaisnava societies the question has arisen whether the relationship between spiritual master and disciple necessitates physical presence. Of course there are numerous quotes from Srila Prabhupada regarding the primary importance of vani compared to vapu. Still, the controversy is there, with regards to the continuation of the disciplic succession, regarding the role of physical presence.”<o:p></o:p> It appears that this is the direction he is headed in so lets see what Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura has to say in this regard when he faced a similar situation after Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur wound up his manifest pastimes. In a quote from the same article:<o:p></o:p> “There have, however, already arisen serious misunderstandings regarding the proper interpretation of the life and teachings of Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda. Those who suppose they understand the meaning of his message without securing the guiding grace of the Acarya are disposed to unduly favor the methods of empiric study of his writings. There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning. Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words. There is no honest chance of missing the warnings of Thakura Bhaktivinoda. Those, therefore, who are misled by the perusal of his writings are led astray by their own obstinate perversity in sticking to the empiric course which they prefer to cherish against his explicit warnings. Let these unfortunate persons look more carefully into their own hearts for the cause of their misfortunes. The personal service of the pure devotee is essential for understanding the spiritual meaning of the words of Thakura Bhaktivinoda.” Thakura Bhaktivinode By Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura<o:p></o:p> Now Srila Saraswati Thakura is pointing out that after the winding up of the manifest pastimes of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura there has been some serious misunderstandings regarding the proper interpretation of his life and teachings. SOUND FAMILIAR? Srila Saraswati Thakura states that without the guiding grace of the manifest acharya and the personal service to his lotus feet the spiritual meaning of the words of Thakura Bhaktivinode cannot be understood. Some may try to misinterpret the meaning of these words to say that the pure devotee can be served even after his manifest pastimes and this is indeed true. However why then is Srila Saraswati Thakura making an issue of the fact that even those who memorize the books of the Thakura cannot understanding their meaning without being under the guidance of the Acharya? If the acahrya he is talking about is the one who is not manifest at present than what guidance would he give accept that which is in his books which Srila Saraswati Thakura is saying one cannot understand without the guiding grace of the Acharya. Which acharya? Obviously the present manifest acharya, himself. Let’s see if Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura agrees with this assessment. Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura states as follows:<o:p></o:p> “What can we gather from the words of this Mahajana Srila Ragunatha Das Goswami? We understand that the desire for pratistha can never be removed by studying and discussing shastra, by hearing instructions from those who have not attained prema, nor by practicing various bodily processes of yoga. It can only be removed by associating with and serving visuddha vaisnavas. Having searched for and found such vaisnavas, it is our ultimate goal to associate with and serve them.” Pratistha Parivarjana By Thakura Bhaktivinode<o:p></o:p> Here Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is very direct, You cannot remove the false egotistical covering (pratistha) and realize your true spiritual form by studying books, discussing books, hearing books being recited by those who are not Prema Bhaktas, or by doing yoga exercise. Only by direct association of vishuddha vaishnava’s which are presently manifesting their pastimes on the planet. If you were to interpret this association with the pure devotees to include those who were not manifest on the planet at this time then you would have to associate through the books which have already been rejected as a way for the condition soul to remove pratistha by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura. One may ask does Srila Prabhupada teach this. Let’s look at the following purport by Srila Prabhupada.<o:p></o:p> “One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaisnava.” Purport to CC Antya 7:53 By Srila Prabhupada <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada repeats the same concept as Thakura Bhaktivinode by saying if one is full of pratistha (pride) and thinks he can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books then his conclusion is wrong. One must become the servant of a manifest Vaishnava. Now if Srila Prabhupada were indicating that one could associate with a pure devotee who had already wrapped up his manifest pastimes than he would be contradicting himself because the only association would be through his books and Srila Prabhupada just said to think you can understand transcendental loving service through reading books is false egotistical pride. <o:p></o:p> This conclusion of Srila Prabhupada’s must be the correct conclusion because it is the conclusion of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur his GURU. In Srila Saraswati Thakur’s Upadeshavali, the word Upadesavali means the ultimate advice, we shall see what the ultimate advice of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur is on hearing?<o:p></o:p> “Krsna's darsan can only be attained through the medium of the ear as one hears Hari-katha from pure Vaisnavas; there is no other way.” <o:p></o:p> Here Srila Saraswati Thakura expresses in the most concise and unambiguous manner that hearing Hari-katha through the medium of the ear from the lips of the Pure Vaishnava who is manifest on the planet is the only process for getting Krishna’s Darshan. This is the goal of Krishna Consciousness and since books don’t have lips he could not possibly be referring to books but the manifest pure devotee. Next Dhira Govinda will begin a kind of smoke and mirrors game by presenting and then misinterpreting a verse from Srimad Bhagavatam. Perhaps it is because he does not have the association of the manifest pure devotee to guide him in his study of scripture that he has come to this wrong conclusion.<o:p></o:p> Dhira Govinda Prabhu wrote: “Srimad-Bhagavatam explains "Persons who are learned and who have true knowledge define sound as that which conveys the idea of an object, indicates the presence of a speaker screened from our view and constitutes the subtle form of ether." (SB 3.26.33) <o:p></o:p> I invite us to consider this verse with respect to the question of presence. Sound vibration indicates the presence of a speaker screened from view. So, when we hear Srila Prabhupada’s sound vibration, might we understand that he is, with reference to the above definition, present and screened from our view. This screening, of course, is a reflection of our limitations and not of Srila Prabhupada’s lack of full presence.” <o:p></o:p> Well if Dhira Govinda Prabhu had bothered to read the purport he would find that Srila Prabhupada does not agree with his conclusion. Here is a quote from the purport of the above mentioned verse:<o:p></o:p> “The science of God has to be understood in disciplic succession from Brahmä, who was first instructed about knowledge of God by God Himself. We can understand the knowledge of God by hearing Bhagavad-gétä from a person authorized in the disciplic succession.” Purport SB 3.26.33 by Srila Prabhupada <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada says by hearing, with your ears, from a person authorized in disciplic succession, the manifest pure devotee, one can understand Bhagavad Gita not just by reading the book. This is exactly the same point made by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura and Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura. Srila Prabhupada makes this same point again in another purport of Srimad Bhagavatam as follows:<o:p></o:p> “A complete progressive march on the return path home, back to Godhead, will depend on the instructions of the revealed scriptures directed by a realized devotee.” Purport SB 2.3.24 by Srila Prabhupada <o:p></o:p> We must be directed by a realized devotee who is manifest on the planet, with lips to speak the truth to our spiritually deaf ears. Or as Srila Saraswati Thakura says securing the guiding grace of the acharya, Otherwise reading the books on our own will be false pride and bear no fruit. Srila Prabhupada further elucidates this in the following conversation:<o:p></o:p> Madhudviña: ...cannot become a medical practitioner by simply reading the books. He must study under a medical practitioner. So in the case of your books, is it possible to become a devotee without actually having personal association with you? Just by reading your books?<o:p></o:p> Prabhupäda: No, it is not that you have to associate with the author. But one who knows, if you cannot understand you have to take lesson from him. Not necessarily that you have to contact with the author always.<o:p></o:p> Devotee: Just like the textbooks are not written by the teachers; they’re written by other professors.<o:p></o:p> Devotee: Usually you don’t even meet the author.<o:p></o:p> Prabhupäda: Simply one who knows the subject matter, he can explain.<o:p></o:p> Madhudviña: But can your, would your purports, would that serve as explanation besides...<o:p></o:p> Prabhupäda: No, no, anyone who knows the subject matter, he will be able to explain. Not necessarily the author is required to be present there. <o:p></o:p> Morning Walk May 21, 1975 <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Melbourne</st1:city></st1:place> <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> It is true that the presence of the author, Srila Prabhupada, is not required to understand the books. However to understand his books properly not even Srila Prabhupada’s purports will serve to fully explain their real meaning. The manifest presence of someone who knows the subject matter is absolutely required. Could this be any person who has read the books? Well if we follow the analogy that Srila Prabhupada has given then we can understand that a qualified medical doctor writes the text books and a qualified medical doctor must teach them to the students even if he is not the author of the medical textbooks. As long as he is a qualified medical practitioner he can explain them. If one does not go to medical school and learn the process by hearing the medical doctor explain the books but he reads them on his own he will not become qualified. <o:p></o:p> In the same way Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee and the author of the books. Anyone who is a pure devotee who is presently manifesting his pastimes on the planet can explain the subject matter. This is the conclusion of Srila Prabhupada in this conversation. You cannot become a medical practitioner simply by reading books and you cannot understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading the books. <o:p></o:p> Since Dhira Govinda Prabhu is not following the advice of Srila Prabhupada in understanding his books he makes another mistake in his interpretation of the Srimad Bhagavatam as follows:<o:p></o:p> Dhira Govinda Prabhu wrote: Lord Brahma received knowledge, was initiated into knowledge, from a Speaker screened from view. Does that indicate that the initiation was not valid, because the speaker remained concealed? Did Lord Brahma not have a living spiritual master, because the Speaker was screened from view? We understand from Srila Prabhupada that Lord Brahma received knowledge from within the heart. I think it’s important to realize that this is the case not just with Brahma. In any authentic relationship between guru and disciple, knowledge is received within the heart. "Divya jnan hrde prokoshito." <o:p></o:p> Lord Brahma is initiated by the goal of his worship. The Supreme Lord is both Via Media and Ultimate Goal for Lord Brahma. The ultimate goal of worship cannot reveal himself while he is taking the role of the via media. Hence what was applicable to Lord Brahma is not applicable to anyone else in the Sampradaya since all the other Gurus in the Sampradaya are not the ultimate goal of worship but the via media to getting darshan of the ultimate goal. This does not mean that we do not worship the Guru as good as God but we also understand that he is not God and that he is teaching us to accept <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> as the Supreme Lord not himself. Hence using Lord Brahma as an example is inapplicable to everyone else. What we learn in fact is that everyone else in the Sampradaya is initiated by the manifest acharya in the Sampradaya. That is the Guru who is manifesting his pastimes on the planet at the time becomes the person who performs the initiations into the Sampradaya not the one who has wrapped up his manifest pastimes on the planet. This is the process and there has never been and there will never be another way. Dhira Govinda Prabhu, lacking the association of the manifest pure devotee, unfortunately continues to flounder in his attempts to explain this untenable and unauthorized concept as follows.<o:p></o:p> Dhira Govinda Prabhu wrote: Genuine disciplic succession is based on sound, and it is also based on presence, though this presence is not mundane. My understanding is that even if the spiritual master, in the common sense of the term, is “physically present”, still he is screened from the view of conditioned souls. That is, his transcendental position is not seen, or understood. And, transcendental knowledge is conveyed through the heart. In a consciousness of receiving this knowledge, we open a direct relationship with the guru. His presence is manifest, and the essential process of diksa is alive within us. This consciousness that allows us to enter this relationship entails a conscious choice to serve our spiritual master. <o:p></o:p> Unfortunately Dhira Govinda Prabhu fails to explain that the Spiritual Master has to make a conscious choice to accept the service of the disciple. This is done when the particular guru who is representing the Sampradaya is manifesting his pastimes on this planet. When he winds up those pastimes on this planet he then ceases to initiate on this planet. Srila Prabhupada is presently preparing to initiate on another planet in another universe and is no longer making conscious decisions to accept disciples on this planet in this universe. He has left explicit instructions in his books and lectures that if you want to understand his books you have to hear and learn them from another manifest pure devotee. These are the exact same instructions of his predecessor acharya’s as I will again demonstrate by the following quotes:<o:p></o:p> “To hear and explain them (the revealed scriptures) is more important than reading them. One can assimilate the knowledge of the revealed scriptures only by hearing and explaining”. Srila Prabhupada’s purport to 1:1:6 of the Srimad Bhagavatam<o:p></o:p> Notice here how Srila Prabhupada very deliberately elevates the process of hearing above the process of reading and makes the process of reading subservient to the process of hearing. He also uses a very significant word here “assimilate”. Srila Prabhupada could have used the words “realize, or understand, or learn, the knowledge but these words would have been more indicative of the process of obtaining materiel knowledge. The word assimilate is explained in the dictionary as “the transformation of food into living tissue” what Srila Prabhupada is trying to do when he uses this word is explain the process of the transformation of the consciousness of the jiva through the process of hearing. That our mundane consciousness becomes transformed into living spiritual consciousness by the process of hearing from the lotus lips of the pure devotee. The following verse from the Srimad Bhagavatam 3^rd Canto, 25^th Chapter, 33^rd verse, sheds further light on this subject.<o:p></o:p> TRANSLATION<o:p></o:p> “Bhakti, devotional service, dissolves the subtle body of the living entity without separate effort, just as fire in the stomach digests all that we eat.”<o:p></o:p> The subtle body becomes digested by the process of devotional service. When this happens one becomes Mukta Purusha, liberated within the body. What is this liberation? The eternal spiritual form of the jiva now directly animates the senses of the body without the materiel false ego, mind, and intelligence as a filter between the soul and the body. One attains their real spiritual ego, mind, and intelligence, and senses as well. Hence the body also becomes purified and spiritualized. <o:p></o:p> To assimilate “the transformation of food into living tissue”, to dissolve and digest our subtle body is to have our mundane consciousness transformed into living spiritual consciousness by the process of hearing from the lotus lips of the pure devotee. This transformation process is explained in the Bhagavad Gita 4^th chapter 24^th verse in the purport by Srila Prabhupada.<o:p></o:p> “This material veil can be removed at once by Kåñëa consciousness; thus the offering for the sake of Kåñëa consciousness, the consuming agent of such an offering or contribution; the process of consumption, the contributor, and the result are-all combined together-Brahman, or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth covered by mäyä is called matter. Matter dovetailed for the cause of the Absolute Truth regains its spiritual quality. Kåñëa consciousness is the process of converting the illusory consciousness into Brahman, or the Supreme.”<o:p></o:p> This is further explained in the Caitanya Caritamrta Antya Lila 4^th Chapter verses 192 and 193.<o:p></o:p> "At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Kåñëa accepts him to be as good as Himself."<o:p></o:p> "When the devotee's body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord."<o:p></o:p> When it says in the Srimad Bhagavatam Verse that the process of Bhakti, devotional service, dissolves the subtle body does it mean that this transformation take place through the performance of any of the 9 processes of devotional service? Srila Prabhupada explains the first and foremost process of devotional service in his purport to the 2^nd Canto, 2^nd Chapter, 36^th verse of the Srimad Bhagavatam as follows:<o:p></o:p> “The bhakti-yoga process is practiced by the devotees in different methods like hearing, chanting, remembering, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, worshiping, praying, rendering service in love, becoming friendly, and offering all that one may possess. All nine methods are bona fide methods, and either all of them, some of them or even one of them can bring about the desired result for the sincere devotee. But out of all the nine different methods, the first one, namely hearing, is the most important function in the process of bhakti-yoga. Without hearing sufficiently and properly, no one can make any progress by any of the methods of practice. And for hearing only, all the Vedic literatures are there, compiled by authorized persons like Vyäsadeva, who is the powerful incarnation of Godhead.”<o:p></o:p> The Vedic literatures are there for hearing not reading. <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Reading</st1:place></st1:city> alone will not bring about the desired transformation as Srila Prabhupada says:<o:p></o:p> “To hear and explain them (the revealed scriptures) is more important than reading them. One can assimilate the knowledge of the revealed scriptures only by hearing and explaining”. Srila Prabhupada’s purport to 1:1:6 of the Srimad Bhagavatam<o:p></o:p> What are the different stages of the development of devotional service and when does one assimilate the knowledge of the revealed scriptures? Srila Prabhupada explains this in the 3^rd Canto, 2^nd Chapter, 5^th verse as follows: <o:p></o:p> TRANSLATION<o:p></o:p> It was so observed by Vidura that Uddhava had all the transcendental bodily changes due to total ecstasy, and he was trying to wipe away tears of separation from his eyes. Thus Vidura could understand that Uddhava had completely assimilated extensive love for the Lord. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> There are three different stages of development in devotional service. The first stage is that of following the regulative principles prescribed in the codes of devotional service, the second stage is that of assimilation and realization of the steady condition of devotional service, and the last stage is that of ecstasy symptomized by transcendental bodily expression. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> In this purport Srila Prabhupada breaks down the stages of development in Bhakti Yoga. The first stage is vaidhi bhakti in which one strictly follows the regulative principles of devotional service. The second stage is Raganuga Bhakti spontaneous devotional service where one begins the real process of assimilation or transformation of the materiel to the spiritual and Bhava Bhakti where one becomes steady in <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> consciousness and has almost zero interest in materiel nature. When one reaches the right stage in the assimilation process by the mercy of the sadhu then one is transformed and achieves the final stage of devotional service Prema Bhakti or ecstatic love of God. Dhira Govinda Prabhu is correct when he says that the divine knowledge received at initiation is received through the heart just as Lord Brahma received it just as the song says you will receive it. However, This transfer of ecstatic love, which is the real process of diksha, cannot take place if the sadhu is not manifest before you as will be explained in the following quotes from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> “By associating with Vaisnavas, saintliness (sadhuta) will manifest in our hearts and sinfulness will completely be removed. When our hearts are clean a ray from the sun of prema will enter. This ray, which enriches our hearts with prema, comes from the heart of a saintly Vaisnava. This is the only way to attain prema and give up pratistha. It is the natural method to become a sadhu. All other ways are fruitless labor. In conclusion attaining ones transcendental nature is non-different from removing one’s temporary material nature.” Pratistha Parivarjana By Thakura Bhaktivinode<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> “The nature of Krsna Prema is such that it is only entrusted into the heart, of visuddha bhakta’s of Krsna and it has no other dwelling place. It is passed from one atma to another, just as lightning passes from one cloud to another. Gradually, by associating with Vaisnavas, the prema in the Vaisnava’s heart is naturally transmitted to the heart of the jiva. At that time wicked tendencies are removed from the heart of that jiva and a saintly nature manifests in him. All the exalted qualities that purify the heart and that accompany prema, become manifest. It is therefore our duty to remove the desire for pratistha by taking Sadhu Sanga.” Pratistha Parivarjana By Thakura Bhaktivinode<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> These two paragraphs follow the paragraph I quoted above in which Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura states that one cannot obtain prema by studying or discussing shastra, hearing shastra from persons who have not attained prema, nor by performing yoga exercises. It can only come by associating with and hearing the transcendental sound vibration from the lotus lips of the pure devotee. This kind of association and transformation can only happen if the pure devotee is manifesting his pastimes on the planet. If he is not then one cannot get that kind of personal association that will bring about assimilation of transcendental knowledge and transformation of the materiel body into a spiritual body. Taking Sadhu Sangha to remove pratistha or the false egotistical body can only be performed if the sadhu is manifest on the planet at the time you are taking his personal sangha. To think that you can get that kind of transformative sangha without the manifest presence of the sadhu on the planet is in itself false pride and disqualifies one from making any progress on the spiritual path. Srila Prabhupada concurs with this process of diksha as given by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura in the following verse and purport from the 10^th Canto.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> TRANSLATION<o:p></o:p> Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaké. Devaké, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Kåñëa, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> As indicated here by the word manastaù, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaké. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaké not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by dékñä, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart”. <o:p></o:p> 10^th Canto, 2^nd Chapter, and 18^th verse and purport by Srila Prabhupada<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Devaki and Vasudeva are sitting in front of each other. Devaki is getting the personal sangha of her diksha guru who is now transferring the ray of Prema the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly into her heart from his heart. This is the real process of diksha, in person, person to person not from a million miles away. Here is an important example that should shed some more light on this point. Narada Muni is Tri Kala Jna. He knows past, present, and future. When Dhruva is looking for Krsna Narada knows it and he goes to that place and initiates him. When Pralahad needs a guru he goes to that place and recites scripture to him. When Vyasadeva is in despair Narada Muni goes there and instructs him. If this transcendental wisdom could be transmitted from a million miles away why didn’t Narada Muni do that? He could already see within his heart what was going on why did he not just send a ray of prema across the universe? Why is he personally flying all over the universe to be personally manifest before the disciple when he initiates and instructs them? Because that is the way that <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> is transferred from the heart of the sadhu to the heart of the disciple IN PERSON! Both parties have to be manifest before each other to consummate the process otherwise Narada Muni would not be flying all over the universe he would do it from a distance. One must hear the transcendental sound vibration from the lotus lips of the pure devotee when they are manifest before you in your personal presence then you can assimilate the knowledge of scripture and receive diksha otherwise not. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura sums it up best at the end of his article Thakura Bhaktivinode that we have previously quoted in the article as follows: <o:p></o:p> “In order to be put on the track of the Absolute, listening to the words of the pure devotee is absolutely necessary. The spoken word of the Absolute is the Absolute. It is only the Absolute Who can give Himself away to the constituents of His power. The Absolute appears to the listening ear of the conditioned soul in the form of the Name on the lips of the sadhu. This is the key to the whole position. The words of Thakura Bhaktivinoda direct the empiric pedant to discard his wrong method and inclination on the threshold of the real quest of the Absolute. If the pedant still chooses to carry his errors into the Realm of the Absolute Truth he only marches by a deceptive bye-path into the regions of darker ignorance by his arrogant study of the scriptures. The method offered by Thakura Bhaktivinoda is identical with the object of the quest. The method is not really grasped except by the grace of the pure devotee. The arguments, indeed, are these. But they can only corroborate, but can never be a substitute for, the word from the living source of the Truth who is no other than the pure devotee of Krsna, the concrete Personal Absolute.” Thakura Bhaktivinode By Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura<o:p></o:p> “THE ABSOLUTE APPEARS TO THE LISTENING EAR OF THE CONDITIONED SOUL IN THE FORM OF THE NAME ON THE LIPS OF THE SADHU. THIS IS THE KEY TO THE WHOLE POSITION.”<o:p></o:p> “KRSNA'S DARSAN CAN ONLY BE ATTAINED THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF THE EAR AS ONE HEARS HARI-KATHA FROM PURE VAISNAVAS; THERE IS NO OTHER WAY.” <o:p></o:p> If the goal of initiation into Krishna Consciousness is to achieve Krishna Prema and <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>’s Darshan then this is the method, hearing the transcendental sound vibration from the lotus lips of the pure devotee through Personal Sadhu Sangha. There is no other way, There is no other way, There is no other way! <o:p> </o:p> Now I did not want to increase the size of this article so I did not include the answers to your questions about the audio tapes, the video tapes, the initiations by mail, and the devotees who were initiated by Srila Prabhupada and never met Srila Prabhupada etc. I have answers to all of those questions and I will answer them as they are asked so as not to increase the bulk of this present article.

Srila Prabhupada once said (although I can't quote the source), "Chant, chant, chant; Can't, can't, can't". Of course he was referring to the lamentable position of neophype practitioners such as us. http://www.imonk.net/about.html This the URL for Akincan Maharaja's Blogs. (I Googled it.) Interesting.

Srila Bhaktiraksaka Sridara Deva Goswami Maharaja KI JAYA!

Some say that Srila Gaurakisora Babaji's diksa Guru was in the Advaita-vamsa, from Santipur but I can't find his name. The concept of an unbroken chain of disciplic succession is meant for preaching or pravacan. The concept of the Bhavavat Parampara is the siddhanta or Truth (tattva). When Bon Maharaja refers to the unbroken chain of gurus he is preaching.

Wikipedia article "Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Deva Gosvami Maharaja". Sri Sri Gayatri-nigudartha Garuda Purana states: artho ‘yam brahma-sutranam bharatartha-vinirnaya˙ gayatri-bhasya-rupo’ sau vedartha-paribrmhita˙ “The meaning of the Vedanta-sutra is present in Srimad Bhagavatam. The full purport of the Mahabharata is also there. The commentary of the brahma-gayatri is also there and fully expanded with all Vedic knowledge.” In his Sanskrit commentary on brahma-gayatri (Sri Gayatri-nigudartha), Sridhara Maharaja has uncovered the steps leading the gayatri-mantra to the Srimad Bhagavatam. The conclusion is: gayatri-muralista-kirtana-dhanam radha-padam dhimahi “The gayatri, that has sprung from the flute sound of Sri Krishna, only sings the glories of Srimati Radharani.” gayatri-gaditam mahaprabhu-matam radha-padam dhimahi “The highest and innermost instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is to engage yourself in the service of the lotus feet of Srimatî Radharani through sankirtana [congregational chanting]. Her lotus feet are to be your constant meditation.” Regarding the Gayatri-nigudartha of Sridhara Maharaja, Bhakti Pramoda Puri Gosvami has said, “The explanation of brahma-gayatri, the mother of all Vedas, signifying devotional worship unto Srimati Radharani Sri radhanudhyana-para explanation, which was revealed in the depth of realization of Pujyapada Sridhara Deva Gosvami Maharaja, possessed with the divine grace of Paramaradhya Sri Srila Prabhupada (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura) upon his head—is deeply appreciated by those fortunate, intelligent devotees who are aware of the relishable beauty of pure devotional service.” Upon the transcendental appearance of Sri Gayatri-nigudartha from the pure heart of Sridhara Maharaja the Vaishnava world of pure devotees rejoiced and danced in great ecstasy.