theist

So another article on this subject has appeared on VNN.Taken from a lecture by Narayan Maharaja.Its entitled Branch-Moon Logic.It is interesting enough.

The thing is the arguement that Maya can't exist in Goloka so the jiva can't fall due to never knowing temptation to enjoy illusion seems flawed to me.

My question is since I am marginal do I not have inherent in my very being the ability to desire to be the central enjoyer.I don't require the outside agency of the external energy to make that choice.

If I choose to try to experience life as the enjoyer then I am placed under the jurisdiction of the illusury energy.This can happen in less then the twinkling of an eye.

I have yet to see this point addressed.

I would have asked them at VNN but their forum is not up.

theist

Pratyatosa,

That is quite a contraption that you came up with.A toy for cows that generates energy.

I may disagree that we need animal fat to keep the body and soul together.In fact too much of it may hasten the separation.

I avoid dairy myself, for health reasons and I consider it cruel in today's context, at least in the US.The exception being Maha-prasadam when I am fortunate enough.I did cheat last week.Two days in a row I bought a 1lb container of yougurt each day and ate them with relish.I was just craving it.Two days after that I was sick from it.My body doesn't handle it well.

But I do understand your position.The material world is always putting us into these ackward positions.

Any vegan bhaktas out there?Or even 99% like me.

WOW!

If hundreds of thousands of suns were to rise at once in the sky, their radiance might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.

O all-pervading Visnu, seeing You with Your many radiant colors touching the sky....I can no longer maintain my steadiness or equilibrium of mind.

One way to attract people is to dive in very deep ourselves.When Pacha-tattva decided to plunder the storehouse of love of Godhead They first tasted and then distributed without considering who was a fit candidate.

Are we tasting?If not then what will we distribute?

Some were escaping though and for them the Lord devised some expert scheme to attract their minds.CC Adi 7.20-22 and the verses also that follow in that section give us good advice along these lines.

Mahaprabhu and Associates are distributing love of God.I see that as the basic contribution.More specifically is the emphasis on unmotivated love of God.And more yet the degree of intimacy in that love being given freely to all those that are willing to receive it.

What I am seeing is people who began this life eatting meat doing drugs and having sex with people they barely knew in the early part of their lives are now occupied with trying to understand their place in Vraja-lila.Its astounding really.And its due to the fact that Prabhupada first tasted love for Godhead so completely that he became a magnet for others.His conviction was so absolute that others became convinced.

Great song.Its the Beatles version that I hear replaying in my brain though.Light can be fun.

Baby It's You

Shirelles

Written by Mack David & Burt Bacharach & Barney Williams

Sha la la la la la la la

Sha la la la la la la la

Sha la la la la la la la

Sha la la la la

It's not the way you smile that touched my heart (sha la la la la)

It's not the way you kiss that tears me apart

Whoa, many, many nights roll by

I sit alone at home and cry over you *(#7)

What can I do

I can't help myself, when baby, it's you

Baby, it's you (sha la la la la)

You should hear what they say about you, "cheat,cheat" (sha la la la la)

They say, they say you never never never never been true (cheat cheat)

Uh oh, It doesn't matter what they say

I know I'm gonna love you any old way *(#8)

What can I do, when it's true

I don't want nobody, nobody, no, baby, it's you (sha la la la la la la)

Baby, it's you (sha la la la la la la)

Uh oh

Many, many nights roll by

I sit alone at home and cry over you, what can I do

I can't help myself

'Cause baby, it's you

Baby, it's you

Don't leave me alone

Come on home

Baby, it's you

-----------

Siksastaka #7

O Govinda! Feeling Your separation,I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more.Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.

#8 I know no one but krsna as my Lord,and he shall remain so even if He handles meroughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted bt not being present before me.He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord, unconditionally.

Loose interpretations to be sure but,"what can I do, I can,t help myself, cause Krishna it's You."Sha la la la la la

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 04-30-2002).]

It's become the hypocratic oath for sure.Big money in baby killing these days.

Dharma said:Lets go through the process, become enlightened ....

Dharma what is that process according to this person you are following, if I may ask.

theist

Dharma said:Lets go through the process, become enlightened ....

Dharma what is that process according to this person you are following, if I may ask.

theist

How do you feel about using dairy products that come from tortured cows and calves?

Do the vegans have a better arguement then ours on this issue?

I took this from PETA'S web site.

According to the ads for the California Milk Advisory Board (CMAB), "Great Cheese comes from Happy Cows. Happy Cows come from California." To back up this ludicrous and fraudulent slogan, the ads show a couple of bulls or a few cows on lush green pastures. It is an idyllic image. The problem: For the vast majority of California dairy cows, these ads are pure fiction … and PETA is calling the Board on its deception.

The reality is that most of California’s dairy cows live anything but easy lives. They are kept in feces- and urine-saturated, completely treeless, grassless, "dry-lots" of dirt (mud, during parts of the year); artificially inseminated as often as possible; attached to milking machines nearly every day of their lives (including throughout their pregnancies); have their beloved calves (shown in the ads talking about the bliss of their lives to their grandmothers!) taken away to be turned into veal; and, when their worn bodies can no longer meet the inordinately high production demands of the industry, they are trucked in all weather conditions to the slaughterhouse to be strung up by one leg and have their throats slit. Happy cows?!

PETA attorney, Matthew Penzer, has filed a formal complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), requesting that the agency issue an injunction to stop further dissemination of these ads and impose other sanctions for what is clearly, to us, the CMAB’s violations of the law. In its complaint, PETA contends that the CMAB, recognizing through this campaign that people care about animal welfare, is trying to increase dairy sales by unlawfully misleading consumers about the conditions under which cows are kept.

"Consumers have the right to be informed; advertisers do not have the right to misinform. At a time when manufacturing assurances, such as ‘Made in the USA’ and ‘Dolphin-Safe Tuna,’ mean so much to consumers, misrepresentations that cover up the harsh treatment of dairy cows cannot be overlooked," says Penzer.

Granting PETA’s complaint could make a world of difference to cows and calves who live miserably to provide milk for the dairy industry and flesh for the veal industry. Of course, the best way to help these animals is to stop supporting industries that regard animals as food machines, instead of as living beings with feelings, wants, and needs. Click here for a free vegetarian starter kit.

Please write to the FTC and urge that PETA’s complaint be granted and an injunction issued to prevent the further dissemination of the CMAB’s "Happy Cows" ads:

Federal Trade Commission

CRC-240

600 Pennsylvania Ave. N.W.

Washington, DC 20580

1-877-FTC-HELP (382-4357)

Bhaktavasya,

One of my all time favorite songs of seraration is Kentucky Rain sung by Elvis Presley.After he sung it no one else has dared.

We just have to have our internal translators turned on and then everything will remind us of Krishna don't you think?

Keeping the emphasis on the basics is the way to keep it from drifting imo.

Kirtan,prasadam distribution, outreach to others.Basic philosophy.Not the body, God is an all-attractive person.Always reaching out.

This is the Lord's mercy mission.In some way, grand or small, help someone.

I wonder if anyone knows when/where Srila Prabhupada said that at the end of Kaliyuga would be raising children specifically as a food source. In the same breath, I understood him to say that music would sound like chainsaws. Even that short time ago, that was unimaginable. But now...

Here is one quote from Conversations, May 9. 1973 LA

Krsna-Kanti: As the Kali-yuga advances, the human beings will eat their children too. Srila Prabhupäda?

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Just like in the last war, they ate stool, their own stool, out of hunger. So when there will be no foodstuff, they will kill their own children. Already they are killing, abortion. Not only abortion, children grows... By surgical instrument, they kill and they take out the child... They are already killing.

----

I have already heard music that sounds like chainsaws.Yooow!!

I had some problems in Iskcon Bombay (Mumbai) temple, because authorities wanted me to dress opulent saris and wear ornaments (to attract rich and western guests).

This is such low class mentality.Pimp like thinking.The Catholics show a better example.Some women in temple life may choose to marry, some may remain as Nuns.That is their choice,but in no case are they to be used to entice $ from guests.

I read in a Times of India article of a fashion show at iskcon Delhi.I saw the photo also.A woman in a provacative pose,in seductive clothing,laying back surrounded by a pool of water with another model(male) pouring water out of a lota in imitation of an offering.It was on the second page of the paper so those familiar with the paper will understand the mood.

Not Prabhupada's mood for sure.

Rama Kesava das,

Thanks for replying.No need to have a private conversation.

On reading this thread I agree with those that oppose linking homosexuality and vaisnavism.

As I am coming to understand vaisnavism, I am seeing that it refers to the activation of the souls inherent propensity to serve Krishna in selfless love.It is beyond all designations such as hetero or homosexual.

Of course many of us will fall under the classification of prakrta vaisnavas or sakama vaisnavas.Those terms strike me as the generousity of the realized vaisnavas towards those of us who are in transition.No need for more.

The point is why start adding any kind of designations onto the word vaisnava?It will only be divisive in the devotee body at large and confusing to the public in general.

A gay faction is a major mistake as I see it.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Hare Krishna

Originally posted by JRdd:

I do wonder what the position of the soul is though? Like what kind of karma would cause such a "birth".

Yeah, I wondered about that also.Maybe like-minded scientists and their assistants from some parallel planet,but just a little farther down this dark road, getting their just reward.

Its just all too strange.

Won't they be having/producing humans at some point in kali-yug as a food source?

I can hear it now,"Tastes like chicken..."

Completely cover, half cover or uncover, men will always stare at women, that is the material reality.

True I suppose.

But when covered at least it cuts down on the howling.

or in other words:

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 04-29-2002).]

karthic_v

Thanks for the link prabhu.I will check it out.What is confusing for me is that I accept realization of variety in the spiritual world as being superior to simple undifferentiated Brahman realization.

I am just wondering out loud here.In anthropormorphism the conditioned mind imagines God to be like this or that based on its own experience.

I am just thinking that perhaps what we have is a reverse of that process.Meaning that it may be that these lilas are here as a bridge to a personal Reality that is variegated but still incomprehensible to us due to our limited experience.

I just wonder if sages like Vyasadeva being the literary incarnation of God haven't also given us a literary incarnation of God in the form of the work.

There are many inherent problems with this like the energy experienced in the holy dhamas for instance.

Anyway as these questions arise its nice to have contact with others who can help me come to a true understanding.I am not trying to offend anyone's beliefs here.

I'm sure I'll take heat for this, and I even feel guilty suggesting but...

Well I would start a large scale program to feed the monkey's.Banana's of course.But those banana's would be laced with sterializing agents.

I'm taking cover now before the Hanumanites find me.

Originally posted by Aaaj:

Thank you JnDas.

 

Yes, accourding to Purana we thought Load was born in Treta Yoga.

But, how do I find weather it was story by Maharshi Valmiki or Reality ?

 

-

These are questions I share with you Aaaj.A related question would be:Is it possible that Reality came in the Form of a story by Valmiki.

I am having great trouble trying to reconcile the seemingly impossible and exaggerated depictions in various Lilas with the obvius spiritual attraction that draws me to them.

theist

They are working on it but like you said this societies(worlds) priorities lay in less noble fields, to put it mildly.

Sorry to here of your situation.I wish you well JRdd.

_

Stem Cells Give Rise to Functioning Liver Cells

PITTSBURGH · June 1, 1999 · by TNN Medical Reporter Virginia Baskerville

A new finding that bone marrow-derived cells give rise to fully functional liver cells suggests that these cells eventually could be used to repair or replace injured or diseased livers, reducing the need for transplantation.

A team at the University of Pittsburgh led by Bryon Peterson, PhD, reported on May 14 in Science that the bone marrow-derived stem cells provide a lineage for cells making up solid organs (1999;284:1168-1170). The finding even gives hope that organs may someday be grown without using human embryonic stem cells—cells that have been the subject of controversy since they were isolated last year, because they must be derived from human embryos.

"At a theoretical level, the findings disrupt the scientific dogma that plastic fetal cells are needed to generate the differentiated cells of adult organs," the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center said in a statement.

In experiments in which the investigators depleted the bone marrow of female rats and replaced it with bone marrow from male rats, bone marrow-derived cells eventually became fully functional liver cells, probably through an intermediate oval cell. "The next step is finding the bone marrow stem cell giving rise to the oval cell or discovering the signal that the liver broadcasts to recruit such cells to the scene of injury." Dr. Peterson said.

Although previous scientific reports have indicated that bone marrow cells give rise to mesenchymal cells and endothelial cells, this report is the first to indicate that bone marrow cells give rise to epithelial cells, which can develop into solid organs.

For Your Information:

University of Pittsburgh Medical Center press release

www.upmc.edu/NewsBureau/stemcells.htm

Careful Avinash.These scientists will tell you anything to get you to sign up.

We need you here in the present.

Anybody see the movie Changing Lanes?Nice story on anger and the need for retribution.

I suffered with headaches for a couple of years and refused to take any"allopathic" pain relievers.That is until I learned that the active ingredient in aspirin was first found in White Willow bark.

This world brings enough austeries.Toerance is admirable but headaches keep me from reading chanting etc.

Pratytosa's points though on just masking the symptoms and ignoring the underlying cause is extremely important.Like the proverbial Ostrich hiding its head in the sand and pretending there is no Tiger preparing to pounce.

Pain is a heads up signal that we should not ignore.

No pain in Vaikuntha from what I hear.

My experience has lead my not to trust anyone including myself.So-called Hare Krishna's least of all.

The "Everything belongs to Krishna, so I may as well take it from you" virus seems to be still active.

I'll trust a Christian a 100 x's sooner.

Honesty deficiency leads to a weakening of the heart.

I've got work to do myself.Rehabilitation takes conscious effort.

Hare Krishna

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 04-29-2002).]