theist

That's it!Plunder that storehouse of love of Krishna and distribute freely,without considering who is a fit candidate or,who has the $ or not.

I love this kind of news.

Thanks Bhaktajoy.

Wow what a contrast with that of Christ.

Similar situation and He said "Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone."

The accusors left feeling ashamed.And the One among them that was without sin had no interest in picking up a stone.

This is the grace of the Lord that fits so well with Lord Caitanya's mood.

Originally posted by shvu:

I had the idea of posting something in Shankara's own words, but it turns out all his commentaries related to this topic are very long, running into pages each.

 

For those who have access, refer his BSB 1.1.12 and the next few verses.

 

Cheers

 

 

shvu,

I was hoping for just a simplied answer in your own words.Perhaps just a synopsis.

It strikes me as a very important question.

theist

Jagat,

Along these lines, may want to check out the book Kundalini,by Gopi Krishna.Published by Shambala.I suspect you are already long familiar with it.

Written in a non-technical fashion,it is one man's account of how this force became active in his life without his understanding exactly what was happening, and his attempts to deal with the effects.Those ranged from being brought to the brink of physical death to high rapture and inspiration.

One wonders how many near saints may be institutionalized or left as living wounded in the streets?Probably rare but maybe a few.

theist

Well He initiated the Buddhist's simply by requesting them to chant the Holy Names.

I have only read the CC and that in a rather cursory fashion, so I thought it may have been contained elsewhere.

How about Rupa and Sanatan Gosvami's?He gave them extensive instruction.Sarvabhauma?Ramananda Raya?

Please don't think I am arguing against Siddha pranali.The fact is I am just starting to learn what it even is.

theist

Thanks for that leyh.The highest concepts of theism do indeed appear in this GV siksa.

May we all be and become qualified descendents of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's mission.

Propagate the Name and mutiply.

theist

Thanks for that leyh.The highest concepts of theism do indeed appear in this GV siksa.

May we all be and become qualified descendents of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's mission.

Propagate the Name and mutiply.

theist

Soft as a rose and hard as a thunderbolt.

jijaji said:One thing more..

I am more like an advaitavadin in that I do not take all the Puranas as seriously or literally as I once did.

I am forever a personalist, but I am with you on the Puranas.The problem is reality in this material dream can be stranger than fiction, so what is allegory and what is history may not always be clear.

Bhaktajoy said:Although this human sacrifice thing is creepy it still dosen't bother me.First class knowledge is there...simply love Krishna

I agree.Like Prabhupada said"Take the essence".

confused? perpetualy it seems.

The context in SB 9.7 is different.Hariscandra was trying to have a son and was frustrated in his attempts.So on the advice from Narada he approached Varuna.He begged a son from Varuna with the promise that that child would be sacrificed to Varuna.He then bargins for time with Varuna.

Varuna waited and in the mean time the son Rohita grew and acquired understanding that his father intended to offer him in sacrifice.So to save himself from death he booked it to the forest.

Where is the sacrifice instructions that you spoke of to be found?I know they kept slaves but this human sacrifice thing is just really creepy.

theist

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 04-14-2002).]

karthik,

I believe part of the problem in the USA is that hinduism is still viewed as a hodge podge of worship anything and everything, and the monotheistic side of it is not known.

We have work to do.

president@whitehouse.gov

The White House

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW

Washington DC 20500

fax: 202-456-2461

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 04-14-2002).]

Originally posted by jijaji:

I guess you don't know who His Holiness Sri Sri Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi MahaSwamiji was?

 

interesting responce though!

 

You are correct, I don't know who he was.Perhaps you could say something about him if you like.But I still don't accept his position.

What about the man-animal sacrifices mentioned in SB 9.7?Not indicative of an advanced civilisation in my mind.

Originally posted by Citta Hari:

Shvu wrote:

 

"We are the deluded souls who perceive duality. The reality is, there is only Brahman and nothing else, implying all souls are Brahman. The difference in the case of the Jivanmukta is, there is no more individual there to perceive duality [there is no I] and since there is no I, there is nothing else either. Liberation according to Shankara, is the realization of the nature of one' self as nothing but Brahman."

 

 

I have some questions about the idea that the jiva, although identical with Brahman, becomes deluded and thus perceives duality.

 

How does Brahman become deluded into thinking itself to be a separate jiva in the first place? What is the support (asraya) of the deluding influence? It can't be the jiva, since the jiva is the product of ajnana. The only thing left is Brahman, but if Brahman is the support, then its essential nature as jnana (jnanasvarupa) is compromised. How can this be?

 

 

Just didn't want this to get lost as we wait for Svhuji's response.

This swami is not convincing to me.He assumes the Bramin's actually followed the rules and intent of the vedic text.That is the very thing some say they were not doing.

The author also condones animal experimentation in today's science labs.he says "they will attain to an elevated state," having been "sacrificed for a great ideal, the wefare of mankind."

Is he still on Earth?If so I'm going to report him to PETA.

How about this cure for dropsy from the SB?

Therafter, the famous King Hariscandra, one of the exalted persons in history, performed grand sacrifices by sacrificing a man and pleased all the demigods.In this way his dropsy created by Varuna was cured.SB 9.7.21

How could this ghastly act please the demigods?

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 04-14-2002).]

Don't let 'knowledge' kill the joy.

Excerpted from: V. Bhatia (ed.) 1994. Rabindranath Tagore: Pioneer in Education. New Delhi: Sahitya Chayan.

"The Parrot’s Training"

Rabindranath Tagore

ONCE UPON A TIME THERE WAS a bird It was ignorant. It sang all right, but never recited scriptures. It hopped pret:ty frequently, but lacked manners.

Said the Raja to himself: ‘Ignorance is costly in the long run. For fools consume as much food as their betters, and yet give nothing in return.’

He called his nephews to his presence and told them that the bird must have a sound schooling.

The pundits were summoned, and at once went to the root of the matter. They decided that the ignorance of birds was due to their natural habit of living in poor nests. Therefore, according to the pundits, the first thing necessary for this bird’s education was a suitable cage.

The pundits had their rewards and went home happy.

A golden cage was built with gorgeous decorations. Crowds came to see it from all parts of the world. ‘Culture, captured and caged!’ exclaimed some, in a rapture of ecstasy, and burst into tears. Others remarked: ‘Even if culture be missed, the cage will remain, to the end, a substantial fact. How fortunate for the bird!’

The goldsmith filled his bag with money and lost no tune in sailing homewards.

The pundit sat down to educate the bird. With proper deliberation he took his pinch of snug: as he said: ‘Textbooks can never be too many for our purpose!’

The nephews brought together an enormous crowd of scribes. They copied from books, and copied from copies, till the manuscripts were piled up to an unreachable height. Men murmured in amazement. ‘Oh, the tower of culture, egregiously high! The end of it lost in the clouds!’

The scribes, with light hearts, hurried home, their pockets heavily laden.

The nephews were furiously busy keeping the cage in proper trim. As their constant scrubbing and polishing went on, the people said with satisfaction: ‘This is progress indeed!’

Men were employed in large numbers and supervisors were still more numerous. These, with their cousins of all different degrees of distance, built a palace for themselves and lived there happily ever after.

Whatever may be its other deficiencies, the world is never in want of fault-finders; and they went about saying that every creature remotely connected with the cage flourished beyond words, excepting only the bird.

When this remark reached the Raja’s ears, he summoned his nephews before him and said: ‘My dear nephews, what is this that we hear?’

The nephews said in answer: ‘Sire, let the testimony of the goldsmiths and the pundits, the scribes and the supervisors be taken, if the truth is to be known. Food is scarce with the fault-finders, and that is why their tongues have gained in sharpness.’

The explanation was so luminously satisfactory that the Raja decorated each one of his nephews with his own rare jewels.

The Raja at length, being desirous of seeing with his own eyes how his Education Department busied itself with the little bird, made his appearance one day at the great Hall of Learning.

From the gate rose the sounds of conch-shells and gongs, horns, bugles and trumpets, cymbals, drums and kettledrums, tomtoms, tambourines, flutes, fifes, barrel-organs and bagpipes. The pundits began chanting mantras with their topmost voices, while the goldsmiths, scribes, supervisors, and their numberless cousins of all different degrees of distance, loudly raised a round of cheers.

The nephews smiled and said: ‘Sire, what do you think of it all?’

The Raja said: ‘It does seem so fearfully like a sound principle of Education!’

Mightily pleased, the Raja was about to remount his elephant, when the fault-finder, from behind some bush, cried out: ‘Maharaja, have you seen the bird?’

‘Indeed, I have not!’ exclaimed the Raja. ‘I completely forgot about the bird.’

Turning back, he asked the pundits about the method they followed in instructing the bird. It was shown to him. He was immensely impressed. The method was so stupendous that the bird looked ridiculously unimportant in comparison. The Raja was satisfied that there was no flaw in the arrangements. As for any complaint from the bird itself, that simply could not be expected. Its throat was so completely choked with the leaves from the books that it could neither whistle nor whisper. It sent a thrill through one’s body to watch the process.

This time, while remounting his elephant, the Raja ordered his State ear-puller to give a thorough good pull at both the ears of the fault-finder.

The bird thus crawled on, duly and properly, to the safest verge of inanity. In fact, its progress was satisfactory in the extreme. Nevertheless, Nature occasionally triumphed over training, and when the morning light peeped into the bird’s cage it sometimes fluttered its wings in a reprehensible manner. And, though it is hard to believe, it pitifully pecked at its bars with its feeble beak.

‘What impertinence!’ growled the kotwal.

The blacksmith, with his forge and hammer, took his place in the Raja’s Department of Education. Oh, what resounding blows! The iron chain was soon completed, and the bird’s wings were clipped.

The Raja’s brothers-in-law looked black, and shook their heads, saying: ‘These birds not only lack good sense, but also gratitude!’

With text-book in one hand and baton in the other, the pundits gave the poor bird what may fitly be called lessons!

The kotwal was honoured with a title for his watchfulness, and the blacksmith for his skill in forging chains.

The bird died.

Nobody had the least notion how long ago this had happened. The fault-finder was the first man to spread the rumour.

The Raja called his nephews and asked them, ‘My dear nephews, what is this that we hear?’

The nephews said: ‘Sire, the bird’s education has been completed.’

‘Does it hop?’ the Raja enquired.

‘Never!’ said the nephews.

‘Does it fly?’

‘No.’

‘Bring me the bird,’ said the Raja.

The bird was brought to him, guarded by the kotwal and the sepoys and the sowars. The Raja poked its body with his finger. Only its inner stuffing of book-leaves rustled.

Outside the window, the murmur of the spring breeze amongst the newly budded asoka leaves made the April morning wistful.

Ok wild guess at Tarun's little riddle.

Be tall,Stand up.

Stop laughing, I said it was just a wild guess.

leyh,

Keep 'em comin'

leyh,

Keep 'em comin'

Did Mahaprabhu offer this siddha pranali to His followers when He was present?

Just curious.

theist

"The saliva of carnivoa contains no ptyalin and cannotpredigest starches; that of vegetarian animals contains ptyalin for the predigestion of starches.Flesh eatting animals secrete large quatities of hydrochloric acid to help dissolve bone;vegetarian animals secrete little hydrochloric acid." Steven Rosen Diet for Transcendence.

Animals are to be treated like children.That is,cared for with love.

Vrajanatha:Is rasa a principle that is predetermined?

Gosvami:I cannot answer that question in a single word"Yes" or "No".I will explain the subject elaborately so that you can understand it clearly.

This is from chapter 26 of Jaiva Dharma.Gosvami does indeed go on to explain but after several reading I still don't understand.Oh well, I've got more basic work to do anyway.

Citta Hari, you have stated essentially my question in a clearer way.I wait with interest Shvu's answer.

Shvu, I understood your answer on prarabdha-karma.No problem there.

Ooops

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 04-12-2002).]

As someone would contracted Hepatitis B,from drug use, in my misspent youth,I found this interesting.A lot more on this compound is out there.Do a goggle search.

-------

Milk Thistle (silymarin) can rejuvenate your liver

Protects the liver from toxins, including drugs, poisons, and chemicals.

Treats liver disorders, such as cirrhosis and hepatitis.

Reduces liver damage from excessive alcohol.

Aids in the treatment and prevention of gallstones.

Helps clear psoriasis.

German scientists made a breakthrough in the late 1960s when they isolated liver-protectant principles in the Milk Thistle fruit. They called these silymarin. Extensive studies in test tubes, small animals, and humans have demonstrated just how good to the liver this complex mixture of flavonoid compounds called silymarin is.

Silymarin protects the liver. Research indicates that silymarin does this by altering the outer structure of liver cell membranes in such a way that certain toxic substances are blocked from entering. Studies have illustrated this protective action for a number of liver toxins, including carbon tetrachloride, radiation, and certain foods such as the highly poisonous amanita (deathcap) mushroom.

Silymarin helps cleanse the liver of dangerous toxins by scavenging for substances called free radicals that can damage the organ.

Silymarin can reverse damage and help cure the liver by encouraging the regeneration of liver cells.

In one well-designed, randomized trial that included a control group given a dummy drug for comparison, silymarin taken in 140-milligram doses three times a day significantly reduced the death rate among individuals with alcohol-induced liver cirrhosis. (P.Ferenci et al., Journal of Hepatology, 9 1998:105-13.)

Other trials have shown that individuals suffering from alcohol- and drug-induced liver complaints who are treated with silymarin fare much better than those given a placebo.

German health authorities have officially approved of milk thistle fruit for toxic liver damage and as a supportive treatment for chronic inflammatory liver conditions and liver cirrhosis.

Milk Thistle (silymarin) also helps control mild digestive disorders, according to various plant experts

karthik,

I appreciated Shiva's comments on free will.Another point is free will is the very border of our individual beings.Which leads in to my next question to Shvuji.

Shvuji,

Who are we that are left perceiving the jivan-mukta's prarabdha's karma playing itself out?

If our individual self is not eternal and marked by free will, then how does Sankara account for the Brahman becoming covered in the first place, and then liberated piece by piece?

It's an old question, but I'm not familiar with the impersonalist answer.

Thanks for keeping it simple as I don't know sanskrit.

theist

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