theist

Yes, Krishna Consciousness but not necessarily Iskcon. They are NOT the same thing although Iskcon may or may not be a Krishna conscious organization. Hence to give up Iskcon does not have to mean you gave up Krishna consciousness. Countless souls throughout all universal existence have awakened their dormant Krishna consciousness without hearing the term Iskcon. Was Bhaktisiddhanta a member of Iskcon the incorporated entity? Srila Prabhupada himself was Krishna concious before founding Iskcon. On this point we should become crystal clear. Hare Krishna

Haribol jaswant, Yes I am also curious about all such things but I have become so frustrated with the variety of answers that I decided to just let it pass. If scholars can't agree than who am I? I am resigned to remain ignorant on a whole lot of things. This is not to suggest that others should follow my path of tiny brain power though.

The rare human form is meant for inquiry into such questions as "Who am I' "who is God" and what is the relationship between them.

jaswant, Good question. I wish I had an answer for you but I don't. Scholars seem to have a wide variety of views on when the Mahabharata was written. It's all beyond me. As for myself I have long given up being concerned about the dates for writing such scriptures, or if it is literal history, allegory, as in paroksa, or a mix of both, or if some contradictions are found within the text. We are really after the timeless transcendental knowledge contained within that exists independently and has the potency to deliver us from death and rebirth, hence the referrenc to Bhagavad-gita as the essence.

Kebra nagast is outside of my experience. However from experience I cannot discount the other world theory. During the days of physchedelic adventurism I came torealize that the very matter that makes up the computer I am typing on is being used in some way as part of a whole other dimension by residents of that plane. Whose to say this same energy is not shared infinitely in a similar fashion with an unlimited hosts of others. Time and space as I know them has lost all but the most superfical relevance as in ,"I have a dr.s appoint on the 27th", type of situation. Krishna's maya i incomprehensible and astounding.

Sukadeva Gosvami said: O mighty Pariksit, I have related to you the narrations of all these great kings, who spread their fame throughout the world and then departed. My real purpose was to teach transcendental knowledge and renunciation. Stories of kings lend power and opulence to these narrations but do not in themselves constitute the ultimate aspect of knowledge. SB 12.3.15

Mahak, Gotcha bro. We are walking the same tracks in the same direction. I am also drawn to the stories. Rather literal histories or not is irrelevant to me because they illustrate the perfection of devotion and often the struggles one must go through to get to that point. I remember how I used to think memorizing the story of Ganendra's predictament with the crocodile was "knowing" it even though I had no understanding of his prayers, praise & surrender to Vishnu. Here's another verse from the 12th canto along these same lines.

Mahaksa, I am not sure I am being clear on my position. Rather these stories are factually true as in history on the temporal plane or not is not my concern or debate. According to the verse quoted above the point of the stories is to draw attention to the Bhagavad-gita which contains transcendental knowledge and is therefore the essence. If we absorb the bhagavad-gita without reading the rest of the Maha-bharata we still perfect our lives. But if we memorize the whole of the Maha-bharata and fail to absorb (realize) the Bhagavad-gita then we still have missed the point. We should be cognizant of the distinction. Haribol

Well good stories of course. Literally true as history or not , it remains that their purpose was to draw attention to the Bhagavad-gita. Stories without the Gita and we miss the point. Gita without the stories and the purpose is still fulfilled.

This verse nicely illustrates the distinction to be drawn between narrative and essence. "Take the essence"

No idea soul. I don't see squares.

Your friend the great sage Kṛṣṇa-dvaipāyana Vyāsa has already described the transcendental qualities of the Lord in his great work the Mahābhārata. But the whole idea is to draw the attention of the mass of people to kṛṣṇa-kathā [bhagavad-gītā] through their strong affinity for hearing mundane topics. PURPORT The great sage Kṛṣṇa-dvaipāyana Vyāsa is the author of all Vedic literature, of which his works Vedānta-sūtra, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Mahābhārata are very popular readings. As stated in Bhāgavatam (1.4.25), Śrīla Vyāsadeva compiled the Mahābhārata for the less intelligent class of men, who take more interest in mundane topics than in the philosophy of life. [...]

And what would be the need to teach that much detail to a child?

OK. So you are an impersonalist and I a personalist who accepts the reality of transcendental desire. I have no need to debate the issue with you. It is enough for me to draw the distinction. Hare Krishna

Please don't expect everyone on this forum or in life generally to accept what we accept as the revelation of Mahaprabhu's Divinity...afterall He didn't require it of anyone. He simply induced everyone to chant Hare Krishna in the mood of bhakti. Hare Krishna

Well if you think you need a licensed physican to teach a child about reproduction that is your choice. I don't see it. What can't be learned in this matter from just picking up an eighth grade biology book?

Actually to ask such a questions shows you are nor berefit of basic knowledge. You understand that you are not the body nor the passing of thoughts and sensations (mind). Now the question is who is it that is aware of not being the body or mind? That aware particle is you, the real I, the soul or sometimes called the ego. Yes you exist during stillness of thoughts just as you exist when thoughts are raging like a storm. No difference. An analogus thing is seen in deep sleep. We may not remember the nature of deep sleep but yet we can carry an awareness of having experienced it back to the waking state with us as well as some vivid dream material. We always exist as eternal beings but we have pointed our consciousness outward onto the darkened temporary field of maya. If we refocus our consciousness onto the ever-shining eternal field of the spiritual world we will see our own trueselves as we really are in relationship to Krishna. Hare Krishna

I would have to qualify this statement before I could agree. I agree materially based desires are all violent but what of spiritually based desires. The desire to dominant things and others are all violent but not so the desire to serve with love. Hare Krishna

I also have noticed this since childhood. I can stimulate it anytime by just placing my finger 1 inch from the skin between my eyebrows. This is also a confluence point for various nerves (look on any nerve chart). So many sensations come to us via the mind and other senses. They are all passing, transitory, and have no real value. Only a direct sense of the presence of the Lord will satify the soul. Hare Krishna

A Krishna conscious child will have been taught that that they were never created but have always existed as eternal parts and parcels of Krishna. Puberty comes from the body which is external to the self. Such questions can be dealt with in a straight forward way without the need to go to a "licensed physician". Better for the physican to hear about the true nature of the self from a Krishna conscious child.

Gotta admit mahak that I would go after all those gas gozzlers big time. I hate cars anyway. The smaller and fewer the better. I would have a few autobahns coast to coast though for those that have real a need for speed. Anyway I am such a pessimest that I think it's too late to turn this ship around before it hits the iceberg that is fast approaching.

What religion was espoused by Hitler? Or Gengis Khan? Then if the subject is murder for ideology we have Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot to account for. Not to let the religious fanatics off the hook but let's keep things in perspective. From another view the whole material world is at war with the will of God and by extention with each other. Even the insects are at war with each other for basic survival. The entire universe is a war machine.

Nah, still fallen gHari ji. Just at the library as my box bit the dust and $ is tight.

He is a pro-abortionist so what is the quality of his vision of reality. That said I thought he was just a smooth talker but now I see he is very sincere and I am in agreement with 99% of what he says, especially concerrning healthcare for all. He is disengaging the US from Iraq in a responsible way and is showing wisdom in Afghanistan. I worried he would be too soft on terrorists but so good so far. After one Taliban freak from Pakistan said he was going to blow up the white house his base in nothwest pakistan was hit by a missle from a US drone. I love it. He has refocused the war effort. He is also leading an attack on unbridled non-regulated capitalism which has run rampant over the common working folk lately and would have only gotten worse with another Republican Administration. There is at least now some realistic hope on environmental issues also if it's not already too late. Yeah he has earned my cautious and qualified support. But I will still never vote for a materialist and baby killer. It's all just karma playing out anyway. Devotees must keep their consciousness above such murky waters even while interacting within the world of names.

Would Arun consider Arjuna a violent and therefore non-religious man? Apparently so. The truth is however Arjuna was perfectly non-violent and was the perfection of religon personified because he was directed to kill by Krishna. But no need to be hard on Arun. Peacefull people who abhor particpating in violent acts even though it may mean so many hardships taken upon themselves are worthy of much appreciation even though their vision may not be perfect. Afterall the intricacies of action and inaction are very difficult to understand.