theist

Generally even distinct Vaisnava groups will argue over whose sampradaya's conclusions are correct. Even those GV's in the same sampradaya argue over whose guru is legitimate or not. One reason is those who have taken siksa and inspiration through Bhaktisiddhanta's line have a more evangelical spirit. Where world wide preaching is the goal you will find more out-spoken people. To me there is nothing more painful then to hear people 'go along to get along'. This to me is the calm of stagnent pond. So it appears it's up to you JNdas, my friend, to make the decision to run a generalized Hindu forum without Vaisnava participation or not, because you are correct they do not go together well.

In the purport to 1.1.2 we find this opening statement by Srila Prabhupada. All four of the above mention activities are mundane but yet necessary for human life. Religion is meant to be a bridge between the mundane consciousness and transcendental consciousness. The first stage is to separate human life from animal life. If someone has no religious tendencies then he is at the two legged animal stage and is acting only as a polished beast. The details of the religion are not as important at this level as the basic concept of looking beyond oneself and ones basic bodily needs. The giving of respect to a power greater than oneself. So religion is an absolute necessity for all humans, from the primitive stages of worship of nature spirits on up. One progresses from lower to higher and more refined understanding of religion from lifetime to lifetime. They all have their place in the progressive march of the soul back to Godhead and in this way can be respected. But there is a point to where even religion must be abandoned in favor of loving surrender to Krishna. Krishna is not saying to just abandon religion. The simple abandonment of religion alone would only constitute a fall from the human platform to the animal status. Rather we should only abandon our faith in religion in favor of loving surrender to Krishna.This is the topmost stage attained by the very few at any one time.

Why do you bring up this jealous God thing ? No one mentioned such a thing before you. It seems you are just looking to argue for some reason. Please don't involve me in your game. But since you brought up the idea from thr Bible let's finish the quote. "Iam the Lord your God and thou shall have no gods before Me. For I am a jealous God." Means the Lord demands 100% of a person's heart to have a relationship with Him. Can't worship some demi-god or the things of this world and expect to also have Krishna too. Or in Arjuna's case it would be familial ties and worldly piety.

Even Americans still think that way that is why there are laws against incest.

I have heard of sadhana yoga or sadhana bhakti but never sadhana 'hindu'. Never held the image of a jealous tyrant God. That is until I read the 11th chapter of Bhagavad-gita where God's fearsome feature as time was consuming all the world's, crushing everyone between his teeth.. So we have a choice of relating to that feature of God (death is said to be God to the atheist) or a more attractive feature, like Syamasundara. People have a way of being nice that is actually quite non-loving and cruel. A drunk man asks a stranger the question, "Please point me north, I want to go north." And the so-called helpful stranger points him north even though north leads him right into the middle of on-coming traffic.

Ok, now I kinow your position more clearly. You are agnostic. I have respect for agnostics because they are honest. An atheist wrongly declares there is no God of which he has no proof only a personal prejudice. Many so-called theists claim there is a God but don't feel a need to changed their hearts and love Him. Oneness seems like a more desirable position because we inmates of the material world are here because we don't want to serve God. We can't stand the idea of their being an eternal Person that we are subordinate to. But even the Advaitins admit this world of birth and death is suffering and so they try to escape this world without admiting their eternal subordinate position to God. For such people Krishna kindly let's them take temporary refuge in His aura or effulgence where they forget the whole dilemna and enter a deep slepp whereby they forget their own indivuality. It is something like the deep dreamless sleep we experience at night. Eventually though the desire to regain one's indiviuality emerges and not knowing any other way to express it they again come down into the material world. Vaisnavas accept the existence of eternal individuality and an eternal loving relationship with the Supreme Person.The Gaudiyas have the most intimate understanding of loving relationships with God and that is why I prefer to hear from them. The bliss derived from merging into God's effulegence is compared to the water that collects in the hoofprint of a cow compared to the ocean. A life of lovingrelationships reigns supreme over an existence of simple static being. In either case one should chant Hare Krishna.

Open to everyone without condition other then his having a desire to hear and receive the message. Don't let the mundane religonists bluff you into thinking you are in need any other qualification like birth or joining a certain religion.

TRANSLATION SB 1.1.2 Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhāgavata Purāṇa propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyāsadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhāgavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart. Verse and purport:: http://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=6130

Sadhana Hindu? Sorry never heard of that.

Are You Being Watched? The blimp flying above your head may be watching your every move. Courtesy Raytheon Eye in the Sky: Raytheon's unmanned blimp at this year's Indy 500 By Kurt Soller | Newsweek Web Exclusive Jun 11, 2009 At first glance, there was nothing special about the blimp floating high above the cars and crowd at this year's Indy 500 on Memorial Day weekend. Like most airships, it acted as an advertising vehicle; this time for the Fisher House, a charity focused on helping injured veterans and their families. But the real promo should have been for the blimp's creator, Raytheon, the security company best known for its weapons systems. Hidden inside the 55-foot-long white balloon was a powerful surveillance camera adapted from the technology Raytheon provides the U.S. military. Essentially an unmanned drone, the blimp transmitted detailed images to the race's security officers and to Indiana police. "The airship is great because it doesn't have that Big Brother feel, or create feelings of invasiveness," says Lee Silvestre, vice president of mission innovation in Raytheon's Integrated Defense division. "But it's still a really powerful security tool. Until recently, Raytheon's eye-in-the-sky technology was used in Afghanistan and Iraq to guard American military bases, working as airborne guards against any oncoming desert threat. Using infrared sensors and a map overlay not unlike Google Earth, the technology scans a large area, setting important landmarks (say, the perimeter of a military base), and constantly relays video clips back to a command center. If a gun fires or a bomb is detonated, the airships can detect the noise and focus the camera—all from a mighty-high 500 feet. After the success of the Indy 500 trial, the company is targeting police departments and sporting facilities that want to keep an eye on crowds that might easily morph into an unruly mob. "Large municipalities could find many uses for this [technology] once we figure out how to get it in their hands," says Nathan Kennedy, the blimp's project manager. For now, cost might be the only thing preventing a blimp from appearing over your head. Raytheon won't disclose how much the system may eventually cost, but chances are it won't be cheap. For municipalities without a Pentagon-size police budget, the blimps' potential to display ads may assist with financing. Raytheon says local authorities could install a built-in LED screen to attract sponsors, generate revenue and defer operating costs. what about privacy and civil-rights concerns? Raytheon argues that its technology is no different than what's already watching us on a daily basis: street cameras, cop cars, helicopters and foot patrols. "No new information is being picked up by the airships, necessarily," Silvestre says. "We're just incorporating lots of different feeds to provide a quick, complete picture; integration is the key here."

Seriously if you want to do business and are seeking help just ask the Supreme Lord who resides within your heart to give you guidance. There are other things you also should consider. Every thoughtout business proposal needs a cost benefit analysis done to see if the reward will be worth the endeavor. Starting and running a successful business is not an easy thing. You want to be prosperous. So do I and most others as well. But we have to see if the reward is worth the effort. Beyond the basic needs of obtaining adequate food shelter and clothing what needs are there? A good education for your children perhaps. Ok so we will add that. Money for medical needs and an emergency fund for unforseen circumstance. Ok that too. Do you need to "own" two or more houses in different areas to live in? Not likely since you only have one body and can't live in them both at the same time. You can only eat so much food in a day and that is true for a rich man as it is for others. When sleeping does it matter if the bed you are lying in is made of gold or wood. No. So in this way we must first decide if it all is worth the trouble to make a big scale endeavor to fulfill extravagant desires or maybe our desires are not worth trying hard to realize. The idea is, before asking God to grant your desires see if it is in your best interest to have them satisfied in the first place. Ever hear the parable of king Midas and his 'Midas touch'. Everyone must follow his nature according to the three modes of nature. But to what degree and what end is the question. The best idea is to pray to God that He help you in business so that you can somehow serve Him through your skills as a businessman. That way you will not only have a business but will be making progress towards the supreme goal of life which is a loving service relationship with the Lord. This approach is the approach of a true thoughtful businessman. Hare Krishna

Money (That's What I Want) The Beatles The best things in life are free But you can keep 'em for the birds and bees Now give me money (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want), yeah That's what I want Your lovin' gives me a thrill But your lovin' don't pay my bills Now give me money (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want), yeah That's what I want Money don't get everything, it's true What it don't get, I can't use Now give me money (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want), yeah That's what I want Money don't get everything, it's true What it don't get, I can't use Now give me money (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want), yeah That's what I want Well, now give me money (that's what I want) A lot of money (that's what I want) Whoa, yeah, I wanna be free (that's what I want) Whoa, a lot of money (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want), yeah That's what I want Well, now give me money (that's what I want) A lot of money (that's what I want) Whoa, yeah, you owe me money (that's what I want) Oh, now give me money (that's what I want) That's what I want (that's what I want), yeah

Arrgh!!!! We need a smiley of someone pulling out his hair. Only Krishna consciousness is Krishna consciousness. Someone can be God conscious from within a religious framework as well as outside of one. A scientist can be Krishna conscious and his laboratory his temple.

I said nothing different then I have in any other post on this thread or any other. Please keep your respect and do me the favor of learning to read with comprehension instead.

Sambya, you sound like a little boy asking "Why... why... why...". In his song of praise Jayadeva did NOT write about nature of each avatar as to how they should be classified.

And what of that Narada Muni who is also on that list. He is clearly not Vishnu tattva right? The thing is it is not the subject of Jayadeva to discuss those details in his song of praise.

sambya, I do not desire your respect. I repeated my source for making such a claim and if you don't accept the words of Srila Prabhupada on the subject then that is your right. I have no personal need to try and make you see things my way. Get it yet?

Look, how much more simple can I make it then I already have? If Hinduism equals Krishna consciousness then what do you say to those Hindus who don't accept Krishna as the Supreme personality of Godhead? Krishna consciousness is the natural consciousness of the soul in liberation. Do you think every hindu is liberated? Nor are all the Hare Krishna's really fully Krishna conscious. It is a rare condition to find such a rare soul in the world. Krishna consciousness is not a belief system that you just identify with or are born into or enter into by the performance of certain religious rites and rituals. If this isn't clear enough then I apologize.

It may exist there, whatever that is. If it did I know I would never find it there. Edit: Theist, I hope I'm not on your ignore list. Of course not primate.

Who is the 'we ' you refer to? Speak for yourself little soul. Many here accept the Gaudiya conclusions on saktyavesa avatars. Sant has already offered verses from Garga Samhita (which is new to me). You can accept those or not. You can accept the statement in Prabhupada's purport or not. It means nothing to me either way. I won't waste time trying to prove anthing to you or bend you to my position. I remember Narada Muni as being on that list also. Another Saktavesa avatar. Vyasadeva also but I am not sure if he was one of the ten listed or not. I know that was meant as an insult but it is true, I am of exceedimg low intelligence. I am just barely intelligent enough to realize this fact. Unfortunately this means I will never be able to find God through speculation and philosophical argumentation. But good luck to you in your endeavor.

What????? He directly says Lord Buddha is a saktya-vesa avatar. I even enboldened the sentence. I am satisfied.

You can stop rolling on the floor now and get up Sambya.

Good advice. I do consider acintya. We can only get a very small idea of the reality through words and thoughts, but that is a start. At least for the simple hearted and sincere of which there are some who post here and I suspect a lot more who read here and never post. The real truth of the matter comes by the grace of Lord Caitanya. As far as Heckle and Jeckle go they will still be spinning themselves in circles with their words till the end of kali-yuga.

Oh I remember it very well. It is your unique spin on it that brought the chuckles.

Humor is a good quality and is good for the soul.