theist

What for? Do you have something to sell melvin? Krishna is the greatest commodity. He ever increases in value. You can give Him away to all you see and yet He always remains with you. What worldly salesman can claim the same for his product?

Yes, in context.

Take gold where you find it even in a pool of mud. No need to search the mud pools though when Srimad Bhagavatam is like finding gold on the surface of the ground. And beyond that it is already formed into wonderful bracelets, necklaces, rings and many other fine pieces art just waiting for our appreciation.

In my little world I do not concern myself any longer with movements of anysize or power. I am only concerned with individuals and of course beginning with myself. Each individual must be diligent to rid themselves of all vestiges of the sense of being the primary owner and enjoyer of what they perceive. At this point in earth history I don't expect suddenly the world will take the example of the hare krishna's and 'puff' like magic all the world's problems will be solved. Ain't gonna happen. However those that set the example that no one may follow have their reward already simply because they have pleased Krishna by their attempt. Real success is not measured in terms of temples constructed, books written and sold as desirable and wonderful as these accomplishments may be. Real success is pleasing Krishna and that is only by loving Him. A beginning step in learning to love Him is giving up the false conception of ownership.

Our outer world is a reflection of our inner world. No outer world solution is possible without an inner change of world view. Here is the worldview that will change the world. No one person (the Capitalist dream) or the populace as a whole (the false oneness of communism) can solve our problem. It all belongs to the Lord.

Your right. In fact I never really concentrated on this paragraph before. Shows how only the devotee can be a genuine well wisher of all living entities.

It means you are holding a mental image of Ganesha in your mind.

Yes earth would become heaven or more.

Yes and to help us do this we must remember Krishna when we take fruit from the trees and fields and use the energy derived from such blessings in His service.

Don't know anything about sanskrit but I love this particular verse.

This is not exactly true. It is true the plant is not being harmed but what about all the insects one crushed beneath one's feet as he walks towards the tree to pick up the fruit on the ground. Becoming a fruitarian is an advanced ahimsa practice but it is far from perfect. There is no perfect karma free activity apart from doing everything in the service of Krishna (Allah). Same point. How do you harvest wheat or rice without killing the small creatures that on or near these plants? There are still karmic implications. This is one reason Srila Prabhupada teaches one should not be proud of being a vegetarian (or vegan). Certainly what is recommended by the Swami is far less sinful then animal slaughter and should be followed Without getting into the sidetrack of animals doing sadhana or not I will say I don't think they do and this is no valid reason for not killing animals.IMO

No you are not the only one to understand the need for simple living and high thinking. Unfortunately the numbers of those that understand this are too few. it's hard to be simple in a society based on sense gratification.

You have not factored all the environmental damage into the cost let alone the karmic reaction that awaits you for all this cruelty. "What we sow we reap." Sow acts of compassion brothers.

This is another absurd statement. It is the factory farm industry and the demand for meat that is the reason there is already a severe over abundance of cattle. We don't see them in the west because they are kept penned up in vast cattle prisons called feed lots. There are so many in fact that the over abundance of cattle is by far the #1 cause of environmental damage in the world today. And why do you suppose that unless humans eat some species it will go out of control and take over the world? Each species have their natural predators in the animal world to keep the balance. Human life is meant for cultivating spiritual , that is godly qualities and one of the most important is compassion. Muslims should stop wasting time trying to convert Hindus to meat eating and spend more on themselves developing compassion.

Basically humans are on earth to be caretakers of this part of God's estate called Earth. Caretakers is what is really meant by the Bible where it says God gave man dominion over the earth. The christians take it to me we can do whatever we want with the place and it's inhabitants but that misunderstanding is due to their foolishness only. It's like a rich man leaving trusted caretakers to watch over his estate while he is away. He expects them to keep the house clean and in good repair and to see that the animals are properly cared for and protected, and that the grounds and gardens are tended nicely. Because the world is run by atheists and so-called theists who care nothing for the service of God that the world is now in the shape it's in. Sound ecology should be centered on the truth that we are God's servant and we need to act accordingly. Here is a video that I know Om Hari will especially enjoy. http://www.nonviolenceunited.org/veganvideo.html

Yes killing a plant is a lesser crime than killing an animal just as killing a human is more of a crime than killing an animal.They are all crimes but it is a question of degrees and situation. For example, it is no crime killing a human or animal that is trying to kill you. Or to kill an animal if you have no choce for surviving without eating it's flesh. It is however a great crime to enslave, abuse and then slaughter an animal just for the pleasure of the senses as in wanting to taste it's blood and fill your belly with it's flesh. Your quoted verse makes no objective sense outside of your belief system. "Eat all that is on the earth...", Oh, humans too? ."...that is lawful...." It may be "lawful...", under mans law's perhaps but not under the higher law of God which uses compassion as a instrument of measurement. "...and good." Check out the following video and show me wherein lies the goodness. http://www.nonviolenceunited.org/veganvideo.html

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Don't worry. I never have been able to change overnight. GOT IT?

Very true. This has been my only connection to formal Deity worship and has been very helpful in the past At home perhaps a picture of the Lord to which I occasionally collect flowers and place before the picture. God consciousness and devotion to the Lord is not a static narrow thing. Arjuna engaged in worship by shooting arrows into the opposing parties on Krishna's instructions. Hearing and chanting is stressed though. The best part of any temple visit has always been the congregational chanting.

Thank you for the generous replies. I am learning that more important than 'being right' on certain issues is how we relate what we have learned to others. ps Sarva, where you been?

No denying that plants are living things and have a degree of sentience. You may be interested in the work of Chandra Bose who in the late 1800's invented a sensing machine that could read the emotional reaction of plants. I saw this demonstrated on TV in the late 1960's. Sensors were attached to a plant and a member of the audience was given a pair of scissors and told to cut a leaf of the plant. As the person with the scissors started towards the plant the plant registered a sever reaction which we were told measured it's fear. Now this was before the person with scissors even touched the plant. Somehow the plant picked up on the intent of the person to cut it and reacted to that. The plant was never physically harmed. Now consider how the sheep or cow feels when someone comes towards it with a knife to cut it's throat. Think of this next time you start to eat the flesh of some slaughtered beast. Think of how they suffered for your need to taste their bloody flesh. All you have done with this argument is to strengthen our side's position to cause as little suffering as possible to others while on Earth.

No denying that plants are living things and have a degree of sentience. You may be interested in the work of Chandra Bose who in the late 1800's invented a sensing machine that could read the emotional reaction of plants. I saw this demonstrated on TV in the late 1960's. Sensors were attached to a plant and a member of the audience was given a pair of scissors and told to cut a leaf of the plant. As the p3erson with the scissors started towards the plant the plant registered a sever reaction which we were told measured it's fear. Now this was before the person with scissors even touched the plant. Somehow the plant picked up on the intent of the person to cut it and reacted to that. Now consider how the sheep or cow feels when someone comes towards it with a knife to cut it's throat. Think of this next time you start to eat the flesh of some slaughtered beast. Think of how they suffered for your need to taste their bloody flesh. All you have done with this arguement is to strengthen our side's position to cause as little suffering as possible to others whle on Earth.

Tenali Ram No one is getting worked up. This is a discussion forum. An article was posted from one side and the other side is responding.

Dear Forum members and visitors, especially those that identify themselves as Hindus. I just had a revelation while posting a reply on another thread. It was concerning the word and common understanding of the word Hindu. I have been stubbornly and rudely arguing over the definiton of the word Vaisnava. My opinons on the matter have not changed but I can now see my approach to the issue has been fanatical and self-righteous. For this disturbace I apologize and sincerely regret my thoughtlessness. I will be more sensitve in the future to other's feelings. Surely the Lord will show me how to do this without compromising on siddhanta. Please forgive me. Now I owe a similar apology to a certain Christian forum. :silent:

This is true. It is impossible to live in the material world without killing. We have no choice. Even breathing or brushing our teeth involves killing. This is why the material world is also called Martya-loka, the place of death. However we do have a choice in in what we kill and the amount of suffering we cause to other creatures when it comes to what eat. To try and equate eating a salad with slitting an animals throat though is pure silliness.

I'll let the Hindus here deal with this one.