Subham

Hari OM: i think you are inventing new yogas, as far as i know there are 8 major paths or yogas in Hinduism: Jnana Yoga - Attaining Him through Knowledge Karma Yoga-through action Bhakti Yoga- Through devotion Dhyana Yoga-Through meditation Dana Yoga-Through giving (Randidevan, Karna) Hatha Yoga- Kundalini Tapas- Through performing Tapas Misc- any other way like austerity, penances, hearing sacred lore, piligramage,etc., Note that you had interchanged Jnana and Karma , Jnana means knowledge and Karma means action. i had never had about Dhrama Yoga, Dhrama as per Hinduism is Praviriti (how to conduct yourself in a society) while yoga is Nivriti (how to escape from the society), i dont think we can have a Dhrama Yoga (oxymoron) Bhagavan says in Gita- "First you will see the entire creation within yourself and then in Me" "I am Arjuna among Pandavas" "Brahama is the fire, Brahama is the Ghee, Brahama is the laddle and Brahama is the one who pours Ghee into the Fire with Laddle" And note that it does not matter in which chapter He tells these, truth does not change from chapter to chapter. And other statements (outside Gita): Aham Brahamasmi - I am Brahaman Tatvam Asi - That is This Prajyagna Brahamam - Consicousness is Brahaman Puranam Idhao Puranam Adah - That is infinite and this is infinite "frankly speaking, I don't know what you are" Frankly i also don't know what (or Who) am I and i am in the search of it.

Hari OM: It may be true that i had not understood Gita properly , in the first thread itself i told i am not an expert. i think you are also no better, and you are becoming emotional too, i think loosing an argument is much better than loosing sight of Truth. Now Bhagvan says in Gita, "Whoever offers me fruit, flower, leaves or even water With LOVE, I appear in person before him and accept his offerings". Where does He say you should only offer yourself and what do you think He will do with your offering? My dear friend it is LOVE that matters, it does not matter what you offer him and he does need anything also. Say if a friend comes to your house, will he be happy if you offer him lot of Gold, dresses and costly food with a Frowning face or a cup of coffee with a smiling face? unless a person is in dire need of money all anybody expects is love. So, i think you are applying A-brahmic filter to Gita and telling that He expects you to completely surrender to Him and He is not expecting any love from you , because He is at higher Altar than you, but Hinduism says that you and God are at the same level - Atman (Jiva and Prama) And i dont know why you are comparing Muslims and Jnana yogis, Muslims are mainly based on Faith or Submission and Jnana Yogis are full of questioning (Read vedantha) they question the very concept of God. Muslims belief is some thing like: "My ideology is Supreme and pure while all other ideologies are impure and corrupted" "If you don't believe my ideology then you are a sinner" "Since you are a sinner I have the right to punish or kill you" If you accept that ideology then you are accepting that you are a sinner. If you reject or question that ideology then you will be killed (Blasphmey or whatever) Where as Jnana Yogis don't have an ideology, they are in a continous enquiry mode, they enquire about each and every thing.

Hari OM: "What Mankind believe or don't believe doesn't matter. IF God choose to destroy all life by destroying the Planet - that is His choice" If what you believe or don't believe doesn't and everything is His choice you are echoing some very old beliefs in Hinduism (called the fate theory), which in turn means that you are not Responsible for your actions or beliefs, everything is His choice in other word Fate. Now you can do anything and everything you like within your capacity, and no matter what you do (or don't do) is going to change what you would experience, what an irrational belief. Also please note that destroying This Planent does not mean destroying You (unless you claim you are the body), even destroying the Whole universe will not destroy you, since you are beyond the material universe and an eternal Jiva. You can be "destroyed" only when you loose your identity or ego. [i mean this in literal sense, not in the meaning of a humble person where You supress your ego for some cause]

Hari OM: "How do you know when you are in the right path and when you are not" There is no right path or wrong Path, and there is no Path leading AWAY from the God. All the paths lead to Him alone, some are short and sweet and some are long and difficult. Pali(Bali) was not slayed by Him because of his Grand father Prahalad, so exceptions does not become the rule. "Mankind will come to an End" only if all the Mankind will believe in "End of Times" which i think is not possible, a large portion of man kind may die due to wrong belief, however who don't believe in "End of Times" will again take birth , only the other group can't take birth due to their strong belief. There is only one "Absolute Truth" - can't be explained or even understood. But there are infinite "Relative Truths" - each one caused by the Belief of an individual Jiva. Out of these there is nothing like "Real Relative Truth" or something, each one is true to the extent one believes it is true. The only aim of your life(s) is to find out Your "Relative Truth". You can't just blindly follow the "Relative Truth" found out by your ancestors (or Guru or Prophets or whoever), people can help you in the process, however as long as you had not discovered it (or it is not relieved to you) you will be in the cycle of birth and death and except for the Truth no other factor (money, knowledge, health, force, energy, connections to high places,...) can help you break that cycle.

Hari OM: There is a branch called "Vamacharam-The left Hand Path" in Hinduism based on the "Kulavarna Teachings" of Lord Shiva. This is based on Meat eating, Wine drinking and Sex. There is a scientfic proof that the mind and ego shuts down for a fraction of second during Orgasm and this Tantra elognates the period of Orgasm,when ego stops you see the Truth. The only problem here is unless you practise this under a very expert Tantric then you will be doing only the three "Eating, drinking and Sex" and would never see the Truth. There is no information about any Tantric now, only some information about a Tantric in Nepal around 1950s seen and recorded by a westener. Based on his books there are some web sites and books written to explain this practice, and i think may be a few members are trying to practice this, however i think most of them are doing just the three and nothing more. In Kali Yuga, Bhakti is a more safe and appropriate action than Tantra.

Hari OM: "Hmph ... Now, I'm ignorant, eh?" Sorry i din't say you are ignorant, rather what i am saying is people who are not interested in Truth (but rather in personal gains or any other thing) will remain ignorant. Bhagavan states in Gita that "Man is composed of Faith, and whatever he Believes he is verily that" and we can conclude that this statement summarizes the Hinduism. So if you believe you are Brahman, then you are IT (Tatvam Asi- Advaitham) If you believe you are an empty Shell and God is inside you making you function then you are an empty shell (Vistadvitham) If you believe you are an spark which was seperated from God in the begining and will merge to Him in the end and no changes happens to you anytime then you are the Spark (Dvaitham) If you believe you are (made) from clay and will return to Clay then you are Clay (Sankyha and alien beliefs) If you believe you are an Asuran (no pun indtended) then you are an Asuran waiting to be slayed by Him. That is the reason in most of the Prayers in Hinduism, there is a Saying "Aham Brahamasmi" - I am Brahaman. When you are keep on saying that you start believing it and once you start believing it then you are It. Note whatever your belief you have to Finally merge in Him at the End of Brahams life, what you believe and how strong you believe can't change this Final event. However if you believe in positive things, the path is beautiful and for negative things the path is fearful. Both the Rishis and Asuras merged into Him Finally (as stated in Srimad Bhagavadam- The fruit of God's happiness and anger is the same, which is merger), however we find that Rishis were living mostly happy with wives, children and had a smooth pass-over, while the Asuras last years were filled with fear , anger , jealousy,. etc., and they suffered. And i also think due to this reason, Hinduism will again become a major force in recent future, Because all alien beliefs are now talking about "End of Times" so the time will soon end for them due to their strong belief and Hinduism will regain its past glory.

Hari OM: "And no, no matter what God does or show, man (especially nowadays) will not believe in God or care. That is my belief, dealing with Men in various places. " Excellent (alien) belief i would say, so in one statement you are making all religions, their teachings and knowledge as irrelevant today, since man will not believe in God or care. Dear friend, Gita, like all the books have a letter and spirit. Due to luck or good karma, Hindus were able to understand the spirit of Gita, if they would have understood only the letter of Gita, then today -There will be no chairs or Sofas, only Kusa grass, tiger skin and cloth spread upon one another for seat. -Archery would have been made a complusory subject and whoever fails in that would be given 100 lashes. -Anybody found eating stale or pungent food would be beheaded and so on (even we may have debates like whether Arujna had a long moustache or short moustache and people implementing the same style) Now i believe Gita may be the only final saviour available to us before the force of Kali destorys everything (i.e., everything logical and rational) and hence it may be the only way to escape , so i would request you humbly to understand "The spirit of Gita" before concluding anything. "Ignorant men will not believe in the Truth" i would rather say, this statement is in stated in the reverse order (like right to left) confirming to your modern view. rather i would people "who don't believe in the Truth, remain ignorant"- so whether you are ignorant or intelligent depends on how much you Yarn for the Truth and not other way round , the moment you desire Truth, God starts removing ignorance from you

Hari OM: "But like all ignorant man, Arjuna followed his own desires and order Sri Krishna away" Note that this event had taken place after Gita was reveled to him, so you mean to say that the entire teaching of Bhagvan, showing his cosmic form, etc., will have no effect and man will remain continue to remain ignorant after that?

Hari OM: "The Mind exists whether you are devotee or Slave. One who has a Mind will think things which has desires and beliefs" "you are under His control for need to constantly need to adjust your attitude to suit His expectations" ""I for once feel He should reject the 1st two and just choose the last two" i feel that there is contradications in these arguments, looks like you are saying ME to adjust myself to His desires and Beliefs, while at the same time you are also feeling that He should adjust to your beliefs and desires (reject 1 & 2 and accept only 3& 4), i think a honest crietria should be either Both of Us adjust to His desires or both of Us should be free to have own desires. "I didn't claim I was a Hindu, did I? And I'm talking about Hindusm here." i think if you are not a Hindu then you may not be the correct person to take about Hinduism, since Hinduism (or for that matter any belief) is fully based on faith and only persons who have faith in that can speak about it, others are however welcome only to Ask about it. " Can Arjuna go anywhere he please without Sri Krishna's permission? " yes, Mahabharata tells that Arjuna wanted to fight with two brothers, even though Krishna told him not to do, but when Arjuna insisted Krishna told him that He will do as told (that is the day Abhimanyu dies) "It is foolish people such as yourself who do not know WHO is WHOSE Slave" in the initial post itself, i told i am an average intelligent person ( a polished way of telling i am a fool) and do not know many things, but still i think it is better to say so and try to know the things, instead of assuming that we already know about everything (what if our assumption was wrong?)

Hari OM: "MY belief and MY desire. So why it is contradiction" As per definition of a slave, he should not have a belief and desire which is against his master, you are claiming that you are a Slave of God, but stating your desire is different from God's don't you think it is contradiction (at least the definition of the word slave) "Following blindly is NOT the way of Hindusm" i was not talking about Hinduism , i told "YOU" in that statement (since you are a Slave). can you see now that you are claiming you are a Hindu, but thinking like an alien (SLAVE)? "God has NO Master. ANYONE claims such is an IDIOT who do not know God" again this seems as an alien concept to me, atleast in Mahabartha, God served as a Chartioteer to Arjuna.Lord Shiva served as a servant to SundraMurthy Nayanar (another story not in Mahabartha) Somewhere i had read as Bhagavan stating "I am a complete slave to my Loving Devotees, I can never refuse whatever he says or asks" and That shows the Greatness of our God, he is willing to become your slave if you LOVE him and NOT threatning to make you as His SLAVE by use of Force. Do you still doubt my statement that our beliefs (or mindset) is now being forced by alien belief? "Define what is a Devotee" is clearly explained in Narad Muni's "Bhakti Sutra", the essence of which is something like "Love God, His Names, His Words, All his creation -(including trees, animals, birds, rivers...) and surrender your ego to Him, then you become His devotee"

Hari OM: i think now this is becoming more interesting, amusing and enlighting. Once Swami Sukabodhana told that the modern Man thinks "What God Knows, what He does not know and What He should not Know", i think you had provided a classical example for his statement. "I for once feel He should reject the 1st two and just choose the last two" "I'm not His devotee, I'm just a slave " don't think you are completely contradicting in these two statements. As a slave should not YOU accept what He Says and proceed? This again i am not finding surprising as most "modern" people claim that they are His Slaves and in the same breadth claim that He should have done this or shouldn't have done that,etc., so i don't know whether they are really slaves or masters of God. Mostly from what i see from "ModernLogicalarguments" is that people declare "I am a slave of God", "You become a Slave of Me" so in turn you will become a slave of God. i think all this slave statements are nothing but a subtle way of pushing their beliefs over other people (or even over Him also), it would be better if we just say we are a devotee of God, love Him and also love all His creation and be happy.

Hari OM: "Devotees in my opinion are ones who leave worldly possessions and choose to live for His sake alone" So you conclude that King Ambarish, King Janaka (mentioned in Gita by name) are not His devotees since they didn't leave worldly possessions,right? i think this is the alien concept of brainwashing, since Bhagavan himself accepts them as their Devotees, He says his Devotees are of four types- "One who prays for more wordly pleasures, One who is satisfied with the current worldly pleasures but prays that it should not reduce, one who is not at all interested in worldly pleasure but prays for His knowledge and finally the Wise man" He says that indeed all four types are noble and His Devotees , but you say only the third type can be considered His Devotee!!!!! 2) "see what emotions comes easily - follow the above list. " What emotions comes easily depends on our beliefs, our social conditions, the education and many other conditions. i agree that in modern time the negative emotions come easily and more naturally, explained beautifully by Sri Sri Ravishankar. In one of his disclosures he says, "When I tell you (the crowd), "I love you" then very few people would believe me, most people will not believe, will think that I am trying to cheat you, why should I love you without reasons,etc.., but if I tell you "I hate you" almost every body would believe without doubt and become angry"---- WHY? It is the same person making the same type of statement (without any background or proof), but people tend to believe the negative (hate) and refuse to believe the postive (love). We have to conclude then that people have a general bias towards negative things (they believe negative things more) and this belief was super imposed on us by alien beliefs and we are also becoming negative in our view of the world. WHY i am telling this as alien belief, because if people had so much of negative belief about 2500 years ago (approx the period of Adi Sankracharya] no body would have believed him saying "We ALL are God himself and we are all bliss personified" the maximum positive statement that can be made on this earth. We see from history that most of the people belived in that positive statement.[incidentally Adi Shankracharya had written one of the best commentary on Bhagavad Gita and i request you to go through it atleast once]

Hari OM: i would first like to get clarification on the point: "First of all, i think we are not in the mood of trying to prove "my theory is the correct " but more mature enough to go through the discussion and enlighten ourselves more" Mainly because of two reasons: 1) Todays most of the "Logical" discussions can be summarized in one statement- "Whatever I say, I do and I believe is true, since MY Belief says so and Whatever you Say, you do and you Believe is wrong, since MY Belief says so"- even though i think our Bhagavan will not allow us to fall down to such levels, still would like to confirm. 2) i don't what to hurt the feelings of His devotees, even inadverently, since He states (in Ambarish story), that He does not mind anybody troubling Him but would never tolerate troubling His Devotees. Before proceeding further, let us make clear one issue-, i think that happiness is the intrinsic nature of human and suffering and misery are superimposed on him due to wrong beliefs and wrong actions, while you state that misery is the intrinsic nature of human and happiness can be obtained only by certain actions, and there is only misery and suffering in this world. There is a statement in Gita, which states,"For them even this world will not be happy, and then How the next world will be happy" i interpert that as only if this world is happy for some body then the next world will be happy and that is the reason i say that there is happiness every where, if there is no happiness, i can't figure out why Bhagavan tells the above statement. would like to know your counter logic before going further

Hari OM: First of all, i think we are not in the mood of trying to prove "my theory is the correct " but more mature enough to go through the discussion and enlighten ourselves more. "Man jumps into the Sea is because he is ignorant and because he wishes to experience state of ignorance" This is entirely a knew idea to me no where i had read "man wishes to experience state of ignorance" i had read only "man wishes to experience happiness", may be you can explain more on this. Your Point 2) is good but basically you are making a distinction there is a "state of Moksha" and there is a "Place of Moksha(Vaikunta, Vrindavan,Kailash..)", and people who had reached Place of Moksha are not necessarily in State of Moksha (i.e., they may be still be subjected to birth and death under some conditions). i am not refuting your theory, but say that the corollary should be also true, that is people can reach "State of Moksha" without reaching the "Place of Moksha" (Vedaha Mukti in Yoga), that is you can enjoy bliss even when you are in earth within this body. say, if suppose, Lord Krishna comes before you and start playing Flute and dance, what you will do? Close your eyes and ears and say We are not interested in Sensual Pleasures!!! if not then why not enjoy sensual pleasure created by human, who is nothing but a microsom of the God (the Macrosom)-[it is a yogic philosphy that "Whatever is in Universe is also in Human Body" albeit in different scale] Bhagvan states in Gita that there are three types of action:- (good) action, (bad) Prohibited action and inaction (or actionless). So while actionless state is the ideal, we should realize that good action is the practical and prevent people from entering prohibited action and bring suffering to themselves and others. Regarding your Bus example, not all Bus joureny will end with an accident, we can also have Bus journey where we pass through beautiful scenery, good companions, happy journey and safely reach the home (in fact may be 99 out of 100 journeys would be like it), so should i avoid those journeys just for the fear of one accident? "The beliefs they had then is same as what we have now, however, the mindset of Hindus now are NOT the same as those before due to ignorance from Non-Hindus and Atheists alike" -Sorry i dont know the diference between belief and mindset may be you can explain more here. "it is animalistic urge to devour each other. You eat others or be eaten. " - i say this is the alien concept (here it is Darwanian concept) , there is a story about one Randidevan in srimad Bhagavatam, where his whole family goes without food for six days, on the seventh day when they get a small amount of food to eat , a beggar comes to them and they happily give away a portion of it to him. Do you think this is the animal behaviour, have you ever seen or heard animals doing this? since because you believe that the humans have natural anmialistic urge you work hard to make humans as animal and bring misery upon them. Both Vaikunta and this earth are created by the same Lord and both are flawless, i am not telling ignorance will bring peace, but rather grace will bring peace. Be graceful and His grace will descend on you. One of the main reasons for downfall of India, not much mentioned in the books, is the Emperor Ashoka, who thought that Wars are bad and Peace is good, so he ordered all his soliders not to engage in war or war practice but to plant trees, build roads and wells, build travelers rest house and so on. Where are his trees, where are his roads, all are gone, but India has paid and still paying for his mistake.So i request you to just not go by what you think is ideal but rather place your arguments and beliefs on strong logic and authority (Gita). Remember that we are now living in a golden age (as per Chaityna Mahaprabu the first 10,000 years of Kali is a golden age), because in Kali just telling Bhagvans name you can attain whatever you desire and for the first 10,000 years of Kali you will also have this knowledge, after 10,000 years you may be able to still achieve whatever you want by chanting His name until end of Kali, but this knowlege would have disappered. So enjoy this life, do Good actions, spread happiness and chant His name

Hari OM: Sorry i forgot to add in my earlier post- " All this eternal Hell, suffering, misery, etc., are alien concepts, and currently deeply getting embedded in our psychology. * This is a very uneducated statement and so very misleading everybody. There are Scriptures spoken by great sages and even by God Himself and they all speak about hell meant for those who don't abide the laws of God. Do you have better knowledge than God and the sages? No, therefor, you are cheating." Actually i am not refuting Hell concept as such, but only the "Eternal Hell"- that is once you enter that then there is no way to Go out. But i think (if you have a proof against this you are welcome), both Heaven and Hell are transient, that is people go into and come out and hence not VERY much different than this world. And it is not neccessary that you will be happy in heaven or misery in hell- Srimad Bhagvatam states that Arjun was very sad in Heaven thinking about his brothers, also i think there is a passage in Nackiedas story that when he went to meet Yama, he saw people relaxing and chatting in Hell. So i think the happiness is present every where it is present in very tiny amount in hell and a very huge amount in heaven (you can also state that in a reverse way that misery is present every where it is present in small amount in heaven and a huge amount in hell), that is basically your style of expression. But the most important point is there is an eternal Paradise in Hinduism (Vaikunta or Kailash or Vrindavan or any name you can call- the supreme place of GodHead), where people once entered live happy FOREVER, while there is no mention of an "ETERNAL HELL" where people once entered will live in misery FOREVER. ( and that is the reason I called ETERNAL HELL an alien concept). This shows the MERICIFUL nature of our God, where he had made only happiness eternal, while misery is always a transient place where people of terrible deeds enter but stay for the minimum required time and then again given a chance to move upward in the spiritual evolution. i think this is the most significant point in Hinduism and just spreading this point alone will reduce the misery and the terrible fear of "eternal Hell"

Hari OM: First of all thank you for providing with intelligent arguments. i am not telling that we should not strive for self-realization or God realization. rather what i am stating is it is not correct to term this world (or any world) as a place of suffering, and we can't do that without accusing God of prejudice or non-mercy. "He / she should not have left the eternal abode of Lord Vishnu then the accident would not happen here in this material world" Now the question comes- why did he leave the eternal abode of Lord Vishnu? 1) You can't state that he left it due to ignorance or bad karma or arrogance, etc., since if one is in eternal abode of Lord Vishnu, then he is pure, highly intelligent. 2) The other reply is that God sent him "Down" which comes back to the same old question, why did God send "Down" selective people? (please don't answer karma here, since the moment one reaches Vaikunta all his Karma should have been wiped out) "Enjoying is not possible with material senses because you are the soul and the soul doesn't take part in the so-called enjoyment of the senses since it is different from the material senses. That means there is no material enjoyment for the soul. " -This also means that Soul doesn't take part in the so-called misery of the senses since it is different from the material senses. "You create Heaven and Hell by your own actions, it is not an alien concept" Exactly that is what I was saying people are creating suffering and misery in this world by their actions and they are creating their actions by their belief that this world is full of sorrow and misery (an alien belief) We knew from history and our own epics that India was once a glorious country, very wealthy and happy , WHY? because the people were glorious they were happy, WHY? because they had the correct belief. Today we know that India, and the world, is suffering, WHY? because the people are suffering and in misery, WHY? because they BELIEVE this world is full of misery. [ So you BELIEVE in some terrible thing to be true and you work hard to make it true and since it becomes true due to your work you Believe it more and you work more hard to make it true and it goes on] If all this world is misery, then why do Vedas state, "Sarve Jano Sukino Bhavanto"- Let ALL people be happy? Please understand that i am not against Bhakti or God-realization or God service, we can go more deeper into personal, impersonal gods, advaitham, dvaitham, visthadvaitham, sarguno/nirguno brahman etc., but to cut short everything, the summary is: Only few people will be inclined and matured enough for self realization or God realization, the majority of people will be interested in sensual fullfilment, that is the way this world was, is and will be, even as stated in Gita, only one among thousand will even enquire about God realization and in that only one amoung thousand will try God realization, so He himself states only one in Million is going to try God realization, so what about the rest 99,99,999 people. If you tell them that this world is full of misery and sorrow (even though with good intention of turning them towards God), they can't turn towards Him, due to their intrinsic nature not yet mature enough, also the feeling of misery and sorrow gets embed in them deeply, so they can neither enjoy this world nor turn towards God. To give an example we can consider a school with 1st to 10th standard. Our each birth can be considered as entry to one standard and the death as the exam, so after we finish the tenth standard, we pass out of this world and reach Vaikuntam. After end of each exam we can go the next class, remain in the same class, or even go down to the lower class depending on our performance. But if you say that a child at third standard is "suffering" and in "miserystruggling" to study, we should put him in tenth standard so that he can pass out , that is fully absurd. And more absurd would be no need to even study or appear in exam, just keep on praising the teacher/head master (God) and you will automatically pass-out. Children in 3rd standard would be at their level, playing, mischeivous, violent, stupid, etc., they may have no idea about tenth standard or pass-out, if you go and explain to them all about pass-out concept they will become more confused and fall into "misery" That is the reason Bhagvan states in Gita, "Those who are self-realized should not unsettle the mind of insufficiently knowing fools, but rather make them perform their duty while duly performing ones own" So what i am stating is dont tell to the insufficiently knowing fools that this world is a misery and make their life miserable, but rather tell them that this beautiful world created by our MERICIFUL Lord is a happy place, but there are still more happier places in this universe which they can reach by following proper DHARMA, while still enjoying this world also.We can create, with His Grace, a slightly more happier world. i will finish with a story, Naradh Muni was said to be cursed by Brahma to be travelling non-stop in the universe, the reason- he motivated all the Prajapatis to indluge in Bhakti or Jana Yoga to realize God and not to take part in the wordly activities.

Hi, Now I have registered as per your request. Your arguments are good, but we should understand that things are not as simple as they seem, as stated in Gita, "Things which appear like nectar at the beginning may end up as poision and things which appear like poison may end up as nectar" So now my question is, why did God created the Sea if people would drown in that? or at least he could have created a shallow sea (similar to why He created an apple tree or he should have created it very tall that no man could reach it). An alternate which i suggest is (please feel free to counter): As per Hinduism, The life in earth is not drowning or suffering (alien concept). It is a happy place to enjoy. However there are still happier places (more happiness for more duration) and we should try to reach those places, but which neccessarily does not mean that we should not enjoy this place or we are suffering in this place, there is no suffering anywhere in the universe created by our MERICIFUL God. There is a story in a Purana which states that a man who is highly indulging in sex would take his next birth as Pig. But he takes birth as Pig not as punishment, because the maximum sexual urge can be realised only by Pigs, not possible in human body. And hence he becomes a Pig, completes his urge and then proceeds upward on his spiritual evolution. All this eternal Hell, suffering, misery, etc., are alien concepts, and currently deeply getting embedded in our psychology. We should break all these mental shackles and realise that God is "Sat-chit-ananda" and we are also same with nothing to suffer and nothing to fear or worry. [This concept was not made very much open earlier-please refer my article Polytheism-Good or Bad? to get more insight why it was not made more open]