Subham

Hari OM: Yes I was seeing that article and authors interview on various TV channels. I am not a prophet so I don't know what will happen in future. But from my reading of various scriptures, what I understand is this: This world is called "mixed" that is there will be both happiness and grief coming intermittenly to every individual, family, community, society and country again and again in waves. There may not be permanent destruction or doing away with all problems in near future. More importantly we have crossed the half-way mark of the 10000 years of Kali-yuga (called the golden period within kali-yuga). Now the actual knowledge will start spreading like wild-fire across the world, no country or group can stop this spreading. Probably it may start like full knowledge of body, the brain, the senses, mind and intelligence and finally about the soul itself. And each and every human will come into contact with the full and complete knowledge atleast once in his lifetime before the end of 10000 years. As is expected, multiple false knowledges also will spread along with the true knowledge and no body would be able to stop them either. Even very intelligent persons may find it very difficult to analyze and decide which is true and which is false knowledge. In my humble opinion the most important thing we need to do is have full faith in god and be truely honest to ourselves to find out the truth (that is not over come by greed, lust or fear). Then He will definitely lead us to the true knowledge. So I think we don't worry two much about triple eclipses, 2012, 2032, astreoids, resource crunch, over population, global warming, terrorism, rapture, pole reversal, etc., etc., while many of these problems may or may not happen and may be we can do something by reducing consumption, etc., our main focus should be on this golden age and the rare chance we get to go near the truth easily (in fact it was made so easy that truth comes in search of us) and not get distracted by other thing (no bahusahka)

Hari OM: Children are normally worried or scared to sleep, because they don't know what will happen to their toys or friends once they fall asleep and will it be available when they woke-up again. So they try to avoid sleep as much as possible. But the Mother being more intelligent than the children knows sleep is a critical item for child and makes the child sleep by singing or telling stories (sattvic), giving a nice beating (rajasic) or frightening them with ghosts (tamasic). I "think" grown-ups (by age) have the same feeling towards death. They are afraid what will happen to their toys (house, car...) and friends/relatives etc., God (or his representative) being infintenly more intelligent makes the human die in either of the three ways. So I think either we have to go to the 4th state of consciousness (i.e., transcend sleep and wake)--Gyana Marg or completly accept God knows best and die peacefully knowing that He will take care of you in sleep and after you wake-up --Bhakti Marg What do you say?

Hari OM: Recently I saw a programme in Discovery channel. They were showing Pryamids in great detail, their architectural wonders etc., also in the program they were saying Egyptians had childish beliefs like after death they will be transformed as it is to another world, that is why they also buried servants/slaves along with the kings. Something didn't match here, the guys with such wonder architectural knowledge having very childish beliefs of life and after-life. When I pondered over this, the following looks like a more probable situation [eventhough I don't have a proof, so in the same boat as western scholars speculating something] When the king decides to retire from this world [Vanaprastham] he enters into the pryamid along with the queen and all servants with essential things. We can call this as non-vedic , Yantra vanaprastham [Pryamid is a Yantra or instrument which helps to control mind and bring peace], it can be compared with vedic mantra vanaprastham where rishis used mantras or meditation to control mind and bring peace. After living for some time inside the pryamids and after achieving good control over mind [until then they may have food, water...], they decide to stay just inside a chamber and not come out. Next stage they order their servants to completely restrain their body with clothes and ornanment with no movements and place inside a coffin [while alive]. This would be the final stage of control and they leave their body with full control of mind. AFter this the left over servants would have done the same thing to themselves and left the world. Probably this would have all other Yantras and associated symbols and rituals. And I think probably many of the olden days cultures, traditions and symbols would make more sense when analyzed under the scope of varnasrma dharma. Else it may look like weird or sensless , just giving us a false notion that most of the generations that lived before us were simple wiredos.

Hari OM: Dear Aqua3 Ji, Thank you very much for the clarifications. i was "thinking" about the Knowledge sacrifice for the past few days. what i understood is like below: Knowledge- collection of past events (memory), their interperations and analysis by mind Sacrifice - as explained by you giving up by saying "not mine" so when i do this the bliss automatically follows , or may be the act (sacrifice) itself is bliss. i am just interested in knowing any specific ritual for this sacrifice exists or it just enough to say full heartedly, without any reservations "this is not mine" and the sacrifice is complete. personally i believe that all the rituals - like purifying the Karta, the location, the witnesses (wind, water or fire), the sacrificing material, etc., are mainly tokens - the main and most important thing (and unfortunately missed sometimes) is the intention of sacrifice, but i would like to get it confirmed BTW i (think) was also now able to make sense of the statement (i think Srila Prabupadha's) - "this world is like a Jail" - while all other ways may be to just increase the comforts of the Jail or to try break through it blindly or itrying to imagine that we really like the jail etc., only Bhagvan giving Liberation is like the Jail Warden releasing from the Jail and so only this may be the effective and legal way to strive for..

Hari OM if a path is eternal that means the journey would never end. Rather The destination (god) is eternal, the traveller (Jiva) is also eternal to some extent. So what is the twist in your post, looks like you equating Dharma with the Path is the twist, rather Dharma can be considered as a set of rules for the traveller, irrespective of the path he takes, the rules remains the same. do you still think of a contradication?

Hari OM thank you very much. i am having one more troubling question, this however does not seem to be related to our topic, or directly with Gita itself, but was thinking about the apparent contradiction for some days, but unable to resolve it. Bhagavan says that His Viraat Swroop can't be seen by any other mortal in this world also His Vishnu form is very difficult to be seen by any body, but at the same time we read that Sanjya was seeing both the forms, in fact he is also explaining the Viraat Swroop. Also Sanjya does not seem to be mentioned as a great Bhakta or Gyani anywhere in Mahabharat. Can you please resolve this doubt of mine? Thanks,

Hari OM: Let us assume that we two are living in Australia, one day we meet each other. i tell you that yesterday my cousin in usa delieverd a baby and i told my congrulations to her. now if you shout back, "wow that is absurd how can you go to usa and come back in one day" i can just feel sorry for you who had not heard about something called a telephone. read about a topic called "bounded rationality" in psychology where people think rational only the things they know beyond their knowledge boundary they think every thing is irrational. so dear increase your knowledge boundary.

Hari OM Dear Aqua3 Ji, Thank you very much , now i am bit clearer than before, also would like to ask your clarifications in future for any further doubts. Also please let me know if you had written any books or had posted complete articles in Web, so that i can try to read and understand it first, before disturbing you. Thanks & Regards,

Hari OM Do you have any idea how much of effort and man power required to extract one ounce of Gold? try to read, understand more before jumping to conclusion. i am not a blind beliver, i had also read so many scientific, astheic, and various religious texts , but found that every thing falls apart if you subject it to critical analysis, except Hinduism. Whatever way you try to contradict between the texts of Hinduism, you can't find a single contradication, however there is one way you can just shrug away the whole hinduism as rubbish, then you are the loser. Science is still like a child, full of wonders trying to understand the universe and its laws, very often it contradicts its own laws and tries to find new ones (take any branch, example atomic science, the laws- Dalton, JJ Thomposon, RutherFord, Bohr, Quantum, Rossetta and Quark theories are all contradicting to each other), while Hinduism is matured, no changes in its theories for millons of years. you are assuming that Sun should directly come with its 6000 K photosphere and 1 million K corona to earth to burn every thing, however like all objects Sun also has a personal form and that personal form can (and in fact had) come to earth to give child (like Karna) or gold or whatever. However the scientist can't digest the fact that Sun can be a living entity too which can do something of its own will, they think it is just a dumb burning ball (and for your info a recent neutrino experiment on Sun has confirmed that the Nuclear-Fusion theory can't be true, nuclear fusion may be taking place some where in the mantle of the sun and it does not seem to be the source of its energy as speculated earlier, now scientist are not sure what is happening in its core) Also one of the basic vedic beliefs is that different types of super humans (devas and devathas) are residing in sun like Grama Devatha, Pithr Devatha, Kula Devatha, etc., whose main duty is to receieve the offerings offered by human race (of the corresponding location, Kula and the generations) transmit it to the Devas in Indra's world, to the Pithrs (the fore fathers) receive back their grace and blessing and deliver it back to the corresponding Yajumanas (that is people who do the Yagna) , this is the basis of most of the Yagnas, Amavasya and other Poojas. Now the rational scientific people don't believe of devas in Sun and the two way exchange process and they had stopped doing all the mandatory Yagnas leading to the down fall of their location, their Kula and their Forefathers. They are just enjoying the grace of Devas without returning anything and becoming " thiefs". Let me remain an absurd, irrational idiotic fellow rather than a thief.

Hari OM: i can't help if you are not willing to subject your assumptions for critical questioning and want to protect it like a treasure. How indians can extract thousands of tons of gold in just 1000 years, without any advanced mining equipments? they should be doing only gold mining without doing any thing. i think the explanation that they gold from other devas like Sun-God etc., looks more feasible. Also if you assume that ViswaKarma is God, it is your fault, not mine, Viswakarma was one of the Devas, there are many Devas, i.e., more advanced intelligent and powerful persons than Humans, earlier Hindus by following the Vedas were able to connect to these Devas and get many sophisticated and advanced material things. Once that vedic tradition was forgotten all the advanced things naturally disappeared from this earth. Now if you apply your scientific knowledge and search for the "traces" of disappeared things then you are in a futile search, since this is super-human things they don't disappear in the normal sense of man made things. Thanks,

Hari OM: i have a few more questions regarding Gita, can you please clarify those 1) In chapter 4 Bhagvan says scarifice through Knowledge is superior to Scarifice through material things. Now i can easily understand what is sacrifice through material things but not so clear what is meant by "sacrifice through knowledge" 2) Also i am not exactly clear what is meant by "service to the Lord" suppose if i wish to do service to the Lord then what should i do 3) Also in chapter 4 He says, Pranayamam and different types of breath control are also a type of sacrifice i can't understand how they can be classified as sacrifice

Hari OM: i am appearing confused, because you are confused. 1) How in the earth can i know that the "Aryans" you are reffering are Jews? 2) Now what is the proof of Jewish influx? 3) i had never heard of a Vyasa in Ramayana, you say Vedas are compiled by Vyasa, and say they are compiled during 300 BC, now i say Vyasa lived in 5600 not 300, now you come back and reply that it does not matter when Vyasa lived, my dear Sephiroth your logic flys well way above my head. 4) What nope? -- there is a letter written by Rukmani to Krishna, letter written by Duraydhona to Yudhistra through Ulloka, and how many instances you want...

Hari OM: You seem to have so many assumptions based on the assumptions of other scholars and confusing that you are scientific. "pushpaka vimana had to have been built by people" No it is stated to be built by Viswakarma and nevery by ordinary People. "but nothing can be made by god without the hands of man" WOW! "but ive read in a couple of places" so you believe that to be true, even though you read in couple(s) of places like Ramayana, Mahabharat and Bhagavdam that kings lived in Maginificient palaces with full opulence you are not ready to believe that, you come to conclusion that Rama and Krishna should have lived in Huts. So there is no change in my view, that you are biased- you believe things depending on which places (or couple of places) you read them, not subjecting your reading to critical analysis. You are basically expecting the westerns to give a seal of certificate to Ramayana and Mahabhrata as Authentic, i am afraid it may not happen in the near future. And a final question, if every body were living in Huts and agriculture brought by some bacterias (just for fun) , just 3000 years ago, where did the loads of gold , diamond and ruby came to India (historically documented by your western scholars as being looted by Ghanazvi and others), did all these pour from the sky in 1000 years?

Hari OM: Yes i agree that your explanation also looks very plausible. actually i had earlier stated that all ecological imbalances are tried first to be balanced by natural and then Bhooma devi and then only reported to Lord if can't be solved at their level. i feel Adharma and ecology (or environment) disturbance are some what related, i.e., when bad people are in increase the ecology and enivronment automatically degrades. anyhow thank you for the informative reply, there is another point which may be of interest, which appeared in space.com recently, that there is a bright green thin ray of light emitted from the Sun's north and south pole exactly at the twilight of earth timing, scientist are still not clear of the reasons. To the benefit of (IN)SANITY, the signficiance of the above point is that Hindus are supposed to offer their Argaya (pouring water for thanking SUN), exactly at twilight ( if you come back with "LOL what is the signficance sorry i don't have answer)

Hari OM: since you are running out of scientific steam quotting Gita now? i am very surprised. in the same Gita Bhagvan says, "Foster gods with your sacrifice and let the gods shower their Grace on You, verily whoever enjoys the Grace without returning them is undoubtely a thief" so what does this mean? And for your info LOL as per Hindu beliefs Sun is a "guy" called Viwasvan riding in his chariot drawn by 7 magnificient horses circling around Meru [ don't come back and say your telescopes can't see the chariot, it will be never able to see them] Also this point was ridiculed by many "Scholars" assuming Meru means Himalayas, however i think that Meru signifies a mountain in the centre of our Milky way galaxy a mountain with 1000 golden peaks. If you want to enjoy the bounties given by Sun and earth without thanking them in return, you please do, i don't want to be a "thief"

Hari OM: i think Violet is the pre-dominant color, with blue and red, there are photos in www.space.com of these lights, however i don't know how to put a photo in this thread.

Hari OM: Either believe the Hindu Epics or the western scholars research. "why then didnt they build any magnificent buildings or temples???" Temples were a relatively new phenonmenon influnced by Buddhism, no mention of temples found in any of the Puranas. Yes there were mention of Palaces and all, but would be worn out by Natural and man made changes (some kind of excavation in Dwaraka seeems to signify existence of Palaces, but not sure), dont look for Palaces of Ramayana Period it is more than 10,00,000 (Yes 10 lac years in Dwapara Yuga) "but the epics speak of many advanced things. where could taht have gone? " The advanced things (like the Pushpaka Vimana) are not things that can be bought and passed from generation to Generation (like a piece of land), it is rather blessed to deserving person, whenever such a person takes birth in this earth. "there was a genetic influx of people into indian around 4500 BC (or was it 6500 BC??)" Do you have any proof for the above statement? "but i also find 5600 years ago to be hard to believe" then it shows your biased view that you find it easy to believe of a genetic influx (simply because stated by western scholars) but hard to believe 5600 year date period (simply because stated by indian rishis)

Hari OM: "do your karma, jnana, yoga and chant hare krsna.. this chanting will give sense, purity and power to everything" Very good, i fully agree with you. i would also add, in addition to chanting, please think about Him as much as possible, irrespective of whatever we are doing, in this way the mind gets de-tangled from the material things and starts slowly moving towards Him

Hari OM: Dear old friend -- you can both read and understand it, just need to take some effort--- either you study Sanskrit, or after reading a chapter in Sanskrit Verses, take a book with the corresponding english translation (preferably with transliteration) and understand the chapter [ i follow the second way] Even though there is only one Gita, there are many different translations and views on Gita some few books which i had read are TattvaGyani (view Gita for Gyana Yoga], Vivekanad (through Karma Yoga], Sri Prabupadha (through Bhakti Yoga), BVK (through Hatha Yoga] and there would other good authors and views. Each of the author seems to given lot of emphasis and lengthy description on the Slokas of their Path, while they seem to have given very short description or just transliteration for slokas on other paths. So may be you can try to read one book for every path and get the full meaning of all slokas. There is mentioned in Gita itself, like what will be the results if you just read it, hear it with devotion, understand it and spread it (in the 18th chapter)

Hari OM: Dear, Advaitham means ONE without a SECOND, now how can be there TWO or more Advaithams???????? Advaitham is a way of explaining the one absolute Truth (like wise Dvaitham, etc., etc.,) are all ways of explaining the ONE truth. Many different scholars tried to explain it in different ways to suit for different audiences with various levels of understanding capacity and tastes. There is no difference in the CORE of any of their teachings save for their style and language

Dear Aqua3 Ji, This is quite a lengthy topic addressed to (IN) SANITY because that user refuses to accept scientifc proofs whenever it is similar to Hindu beliefs, and since has no valid arguments keeps on typing LOL Basically all these theories point to a living being of earth can search the net or read scientific magazines to get a clear idea, i will just give some details about one aspect here to prevent it going very lenghty. Auras of earth: There are lights observed in the north and south poles , these lights were intially considered only due to sun's rays splitting the high altitude atoms (called ionosphere) . However recently it is found that the primary cause for this lighting is earth itself, earth has a fluctating complex magentic field (called magentosphere) this causes ion balance change and the main reason for lighting. The same thing happens in Humans also, Humans have a fluctating magnetic field around them due to constant sodium-potassium ion exchange (this is the principle of working behind ECG) and creates a rthymic electric-magnetic field around a persons body. In fact even the rthym of earths "beat" seem to match with Humans. Same thing for Core- earlier Core was thought of as just a big molten iron ball with solid rock surfaces floating above it, but due to a project (the deep penteration of earths crust in Pacific ocean) and theories like petroleum actually comes from the core of the earth (and not as initally posulated that it is produced from the dead forests of past) and due to finding of living organisms in petroleum, scientists are coming to a conclusion that there is a seperate "world" exists below the discontinunity (the discontinuity itself is baffling many scientists)-- this seems to be very similar to Pathaal concept of Hinduism. However some people simply can't accept logical, scientific, historic,legal or any thing when it is contradictary to their view.

Hari OM: even scholars who went so deep into vedas and upanishads had trouble in understanding Nirguna and Advaith concepts, i absolutely don't find fault with you (who is dreaming of paradise with 72 virgins) if you find this rubbish and lunatic. You are blessed with the true religion, i think instead wasting time in reading these kinds of nonsense forums and posts, my sincere request to you is to follow your religion more and reach paradise faster.

Hari OM: i found two issues in your post 1) There is no "coming" of Aryans , this theory is highly questionable. 2) VedaVyasa lived during the time of Mahabharat that is approx 5600 years and not in 300 BC. 3) And in many of the Epics and Puranas we see kings and queens writing letters to others, so this debunks your theory of Hindus don't know writting (BTW "paper" was not the first medium of writting , the original manuscripts, a few of them available in museums now were in Palm leaves) BTW the most popular method used to figure out the age of any documents is lexographic analysis, that is any language undergoes changes (in lexical and prouncations) gradually, so by comparing the amount of change a document has undergone its age is determined, i.e., the more the document looks different from todays diaclets the more old it is. But since Vedas seems to had apparently no change at all at the time of analysis (around 1800 AD by western "Scholars") they gave it a time frame of 300 BC - 300 AD. However this theory is fully refuted by Chinamandya and Sri Chandasekara Sarswati (on his Book on Hinduism - an excellent must read for all Hindus) by the fact that Vedas were specifically fitted with 6 external guards so that it can't change, so the method of change analysis applied to determine its age is flawed. [ However as usual the "scholars" push aside the valid and logical counter-points and stick to the "white man scholarly" opinion of 300 BC-- they can't be helped]

Hari OM: first try to read and understand the concept before jumping up to conclusion , otherwise at least change the login name to INSANITY Also read science journals and update your knowledge It is now a scientifically accepted theory that Earth is a living organism (at least a single cell one), without which there is no way to maintain the Oxygen level of atmosphere. The scientist has named this giant living organism as "Gia" while we can it as Bhooma Devi. BTW where did i say that a giant woman is holding UP the earth, don't blast me for your assumptions. Have any idea what is the meaning of earth's mantle and Core what is the signifinance of the discontinuity between them , what is the "Auras" of earth as witnessed in north and south poles , etc., To add further. You must aware that there are two kinds of astrology now- one is your most favoured, respected and revered western astrology and the other one, the rubbish Hindu astrology generally called the Sideral Astrology. There is always one sun sign difference between the two, i.e., if you are born at end of November, as per western astrology your sun sign is Saggi while as per Hindu Astrology it would be Capri (called Lagna) The western scholars were very proud of this difference, they told that Western astronmers used very sophsiticated telescopes to exactly figure out the sun signs, while the poor foolish Hindus used inferior methods and hence got the signs wrong , their very disciplined followers (i.e., like you) very happily and proudly propogating this. And LOL know what in the 1999 Science Journal there was an article, that from inference due to the radio telescope it is now confirmed that Earth also has one more motion-- wobbling in addition to Rotation and Revolution. It wobbles and falls approx 1 degree every 2000 years and one cycle of wobble approx takes 60 years. So now actually at middle of Nov the Sun is at Capri and not Saggi, and after 2000 years the difference would be two sun signs and would be nakedly visible , Oh what a superior telescope techniques you use, WOW WOW WOW i say you (and your masters) are very forward (incidentally BTW the Hindu Panchang system is written every 60 years, but i would not say that this some how corresponds to one wobble circle of earth and Hindus are superior and Hurt you, rather we can assume that the old ignorant shepherds of ancient India somehow coniciendtally jumped on this 60 years figure but they did write rubbish--- Happy now?)

Hari OM: Dear Aqua3 Ji, Thanks for your comments, i would like to share one more of my thoughts with you. While reading Puranas, i will be wondering when reading, Bhooma Devi goes to Lord and Prays her to resuce from Heavy Load of Earth, since she can bear it no more. i was thinking that even if a person dies there would be no change in the total weight of the world, so what is the meaning of the above verse. Then suddenly i (think) understood the concept. Every area has an ecological balance- that is the amount of vegetation, water resource, herbivorous and carnivorous animals, their ratio is maintained in a good balance. If this ratio is disturbed, then it is self-corrected mostly, for example if the no of tigers increases, it would eat more deers, so the deer population would decrease, which inturn decreases the food to tigers and their population finally decreases, restoring the ecological balance. But if a species is very intelligent and adaptive then this balance is not easily restored, the natural intelligence (we can assume Bhooma Devi here) interfers to restore the balance with several natural disasters(?) Like in our present time, the Humans (or should we say HumanoAsuroids??) do so many things to disturb this ecological balance and the natural intelligence tries to restore it back, for example they exacvate lot of petroleum from the earth creating sesimic imbalance, She tries to restore the balance by earthquakes, they heat up the atmosphere and She tries to restore the balance by Cyclones, storms, flooding, etc., But at some point of time the effort becomes too big for her to restore the balance, and she goes to the Lord and prays to Him, i think then He takes Avataar and restores the balance (in the mean while he also plays, does so many other things playfully), please let me know your opinion about my understanding. Dear Maadhav Ji, Thanks for pointing out the mistakes in using Sanskrit words, will try to be more careful in future.