Subham

Hari OM: there are two main levels of functioning - at spiritual level and at social level (called as "Nivarti" and "Pravatri" in Sanskrit) At spiritual level, all are one and no difference (including the difference between God and Man) However in social level, difference do (and should for efficiency and smooth functioning) exists. There are gender differences, role differences (difference between father and son), position differences (difference between king and his solider), etc., etc., and i don't think this difference would disappear anytime in the near future (now there is no caste based difference, but difference like manager-worker exists), and better would be to acknowledge the difference and create a smooth working environment with the differences, instead of trying to break all the differences and create a "One" group , of course if any body feels superior/inferior due to the differences , then it is wrong and needs to be corrected. However, please note that this is just my opinion.

Hari OM: i quoted some texts and did say they mean women may be less intelligent than man, however i also posted in that same thread, women are considered more emotionally strong than men. it is a modern day concept that if some body is less intelligent, less wealthy, less beautiful, less powerful , etc., etc., it means they are "inferior" to the corresponding "more" person. However most of the traditional scriptures acknowledges , less and more are but natural, and each one assigned corresponding duties as per their nature. it is not their fault, if you consider some duties as supreme to other duties now, they did consider all duties are equal and perfection in the duty is the best way to worship Him.

Hari OM: And thanks for not getting hurt. i think you have very valid questions: we read from scriptures: Krishna played with Gopis and Gopis played with Krishna Shiva give one-half to Paravthi But i don't have valid answers, in fact i have more questions - like why, some gods are shown as Batchelors, Some with one wife, some with many wifes, some women god are shown as gracious (Laxmi, Saraswathi, AnnaPooraneswari, ...) Some are shown as angry (Durga, Paravathi) Some are shown as Fericous (Kali...) If you get answers for the above it would be great. Also by the way, there is a seperate branch in Hinduism, where the original Brahamam is not considered a masculine Form (Narayana, Maha deva or Ganesha) but rather a feminine form (Adi Para Sakthi), references of this can be found in a scripture "Devi Maha Mathiyam" (we can't use even this also for food)

Hari OM: i am really sorry if you are hurt. i never meant women are backward, and i never talked about "jobs" anywhere. i just mentioned that the intelligence and emotional levels of men and women are different made according to their respective roles. i have no problem, what ever you "job" you want to take up and no problem, even if you consider "men" in general or "me" in particular as inferior or backward to "women" i was just trying to explain your questions from my knowledge (which may be entirely wrong), if you are offended i applogize and willing to retract all my statements.

Hari OM: sorry it was just a general question, i didn't have any particular point. BTW, for your info, the Puranas state a Daksha Prajapati Yagna, where Shiva is insulted By Daksha, Brighu, etc., which ends up in a fight, and so much intolerable for Parvathi that she commits suicide, and this is supposedly happened in Sathya Yuga...

Hari OM: i had heard of one more Pralaya, the "Manu Paralaya", the period between the end of one Manu and the start of another, and this period is approximately one Chatur-Yuga long.

Hari OM: i am not justifying the revenge killing , but just stating that these irrational acts , can't even be justified as revenge killing. i fully agree with your noble views, but, if some part of the humanity does not agree this view, then how that part should be dealt with? i think people could not come to a definite conclusion for this question.

Hari OM: In one of the earlier posts, a muslim friend made an (innocent) statement, "Muslims are being hated for their belief and not their actions" The same kind of writing we are seeing in papers and TV where some terrorists does some irrational act and some stupid people come up with desperate justification. so let us see some of those in the near past (i think no point in going to distant past) 1) Terrorist beheads a Buddhist monk in Thailand , Because they say A police officer arrested a wrong Muslim man. What justification is this- if A police officer arrested a Wrong Muslim man, then behead that officer, or Any police officer, why a Buddhist monk? 2) Bomb blast in Mumbai (2004) , Because of rioteers killed innocent muslims in Gujarat Kill the rioteers then, or atleast explode the bombs in Gurajat , why in Mumbai? It is as logical, as if i kill some body, his relatives kill my neighbours grand mother. 3) Killing at a Kinder garden school in Belsan, Russia, Because russians suppressed the religious freedom of Muslims in Chechnya? How can children supress the freedom of other people, while their own freedom itself is suppressed by their parents and teachers.

Hari OM: Your question should be like:"How to get something I (not you) want very bad" God is not the supplier of wants, stated clearly in Gita, "it is nature alone that functions" You get what you deserve, and what you deserve depends on many factors, your present and past karma, the family and social conditions, your current capacity, etc., So analayze , (in a sattatic way), of what is your current capactity and set some realistic goals, which you can achieve with not too much of strain to your self and others and start progressing systematically (set some realistic goals, if some body is a popper today, not proper to set a goal of competing with Ambani's by next year). And by the way keeping praying to God, and one day He will give you the knowledge by which you will understand all this goals, ambitions, etc., are trivial and not worth

Hari OM: it is said "spirit" not "human spirit" while the human population is increasing, many animal population (like tiger, buffaloes, monkeys...) are decreasing and in fact some are becoming extinct. so what can we conclude, most animals are now transmigrating as humans, (many "people" are a living proof to this satement)

Hari OM: Thank you very much. "I will leave this debate " But please just don't leave "This Debate", please..please..please don't reply for any of "MY" future posts .

Hari OM: dear sister, i am not aware of any female birth by Bhagavan Sri Krishan. also i am not an expert, so i will try to give my best known answers. It is true that women are considered less intelligent than men in most of the sastras (sorry if it hurts you, i really don't want to hurt you , please read few more lines calmly) Even in Gita there is a statement, "even vaisyas, sudras and women can benefit from this teaching, then how much more for brahmins and kshatriyas" i know this looks very derogative and as an insult in modern times. But as per the sastras, being less intelligent is not a less human being, it is just a different human being. The four important traits, knowledge, valour, hard-work and phsycial strength was divided equally among the four castes, again no caste (and no trait) was considered supreme, it was just different, but in modern times , intelligence (even though considered as synonmous with knowledge, it is not) is considered as a supreme trait and hence when we say a group lacks intelligence, it is considered a insult. Now about women, women were less intelligent but emotionally more strong than men (which is being called EQ-emotional quota now) , so they generally does not fare well in maths and science , but good in communications and socializing. This is not done as a conspiracy (no body can set the intelligence levels of others), nor is done as a insult to women, god forgive, since women are considered as Mother in Hinduism and Vaishanvism has a special place to universal Mother (Laxmi). But rather traits are given which are more suitable to their type of work . A child has to be dealt with emotionally and not intelligently, a family or a group needs love more for effective functioning. However most modern "scholars" dont agree with this view, they think that education and employment of women is "the" best option and all sasthras are made just to keep women enslaved. We can see in society, a few women, did indeed had benefited, they have economic freedom, no more dependent on cruel and stupid husbands, etc., however there is also an other side (not much highlighted) where women struggle both in office and home, their heart is with their child, they want to attend all their family functions, they also have considerable financial freedom, but due to social pressure (fear of being called house-wife), they continue to work, with no interest what-so-ever in work, they suffer at work place, their children suffer at the home. So for all issues, there is a "Practical" solution and an "idealistic" solution (where the nature of people and their duty is not considered, but an imaginary universal equal standards are applied). Most of the Shastras speak of "Practical" solution, while most of the modern solutions are idealistic (even though they appear good at first look, creates suffering for many when followed) Regarding marriage , i think it is Karma mostly and some times their own study or social conditions , both for men and women, few men had also remained batchelors ignoring marriage. Generally marriage is the rule, to keep a smooth society , where there are functioning families and crimes are less, however if a women (or men) turns to liberation and this rule can be broken (Andal, Meera, Avaiyar, ... Bhisma, Sukha...), breaking this rule for any other lofty purpose (career, family, economy, ...) may not be very good in the long run.

Hari OM: Running out of steam , for the rubbish arguments? remember i told you not interested in arguing with "chosen" people ( i wonder how the hell does God "choses" people) it was you who kept on harping for all my posts Now since you have no valid (or even rubbish) arguments left, reverting like a true A-brahmam, with excuses - no time, no credibility, etc., etc., so keep your words don't trouble me in my future posts

Hari OM: Good, you heeded to my advice. Keep it up, in all future posts, start with "I guess"...

Hari OM: i had quoted the Gita Verse as a proof, if you are not willing to accept Gita Verse as a proof, it is not my problem. So what proof are you expecting, From "The Protocol of the Elders of Zion (The kabbalah?)" i can't quote the full "karama kanda" here just study yourself. i quoted one Purana incident, another one is Mahabharat, where a princess Amba, does severe penance for hundreds of years for taking a particular birth ( a clear proof even for "rubbish" arguments- do penance and make choice of your birth) if you are interested in western scholars, read Stephen knapp, Gothier, and as well as english translations of Vedas by Sri Aurbindo. if you close your eyes when i show the proof, i can't do anything. You are the "chosen" puppet

Hari OM: "Do not hate muslims" People don't hate muslims for their belief, but for their actions. "Now a days" people are in general more tolerant of others beliefs. But in case of (Most) Muslims, when their population reaches half-mark, in a street, city, state (kashmir) or Country (Pakistan,Bangaladesh), they try to kill or throw away all others. You can't expect love in return. my dear friend , it would be more relevant, for you to go to muslim forums and start preaching, "do not hate others"

Hari OM: i don't understand why you love rubbish arguments so much. i said people can make a choice of "their" next birth by "their" actions, even the most absurd logic can't be made to link the staement with "Man CAN predict Lord Shiva's and Lord Brahma's actions and duties (in creating and annihilation)" in spite of your rubbish attitude, for the benefit of others, the proof of "scientific karma theory" is in vedas, called "Karma Kanda", in Gita in the verse, " Verily whatever man thinks of during their time of death, the same he achieves", in Puranas, the Bhagavatam, where a Rishi, by name Jada Bharda, takes birth as a deer, since he was so much attached to a deer during his death. You are the "chosen" puppet.

Hari OM: Thank you for acknowledging the existence of different paths, and all Paths are equally good, you seem to be a real intelligent person. Any how these discussions are going on for Hundreds of years without any definite conclusions, so i am also not expecting a conclusion. i am some how unable to digest the fact that all cruel, ignorant, stupid, terrorist, dacoits are God, without concluding "Gods must be crazy"

Hari OM: Thank you for the wishes and the sincere advices, however i would prefer to proceed in my own way, why? because: 1) if i am god (as you say) and assuming me as subham, then i have nothing to loose (since God can't loose anything), this is pure and simple fun arising out of wrong assumption 2) However if i am no god but assuming me as God, then i have many things to loose , including the liberation from that false assumption. Anyhow all the best for You also (but i don't know for what, since you are a God already)

Hari OM: As they say in Tamil, "Half pots make more noise". i see here a Quarter pot making the greatest noise, calling every body as nonsense, silly, stupid, "Wrong", "right" even the most profound Hindu scholars will not make such defintive statements. "Liberation" means no more next birth, people can make a choice of when and where they will take their next birth by their present Karma, it is not Nonsense, it is based on a solid and Scientific Karma theory , endorsed and proven by so many Scholars (including western ones), time and again. So reduce your noise level, in future posts, try to respond with phrases like "I think", "I believe" etc.,

Hari OM: what i meant was understanding you, not understanding the truth (may be both are same, but can't say) God (Bhagavan) is not intelligence, if so all intelligent people can realize him When they say turn inside and see the God, literally does not mean the God (Bhagavan) is inside you (and excluding the Bhagavan outside you) What is inside us is "Brahamam" - the minute genetic pool, life-giving substance (stated to be as thin as 1/10,000th of human hair). This Brahamam reflects the entire universe within itself (the Virat Swaroop), this Brahamam can also reflect the Personal Form of the reality behind the Universe, called the Bhagavan, (the Sarguna Samidhi) or it may even reflect itself (nirguna samadhi, where the seer, seen and the process of seeing are the one and the same). But since it reflects Bhagavan , it does not become Bhagavan itself. i will remain Purusha and he will continue to remain "Purushothma" even after seeing His reflection. When a Grandfather says to his Grandson "You are like me , good boy" he says out of love, however when the Grandson says the same thing to his Grand father he says out of ignorance. Bhagavan is within us means we can see His reflection in (and ONLY in ) our own life-giving substance, the Atman, it is also possible for the Atman to merge in Bhagavan, however it may not be possible for Atman to become Bhagavan.

Hari OM: A very good and thought-provoking reply, i would say. Your ignorance is Arjuna Your Intelligence is Krishna Has explained the Nara-Narayana concept quite well. But both of this are possessive pro-noun, (My ignorance and My intelligence), so what is the proper -noun (ME?) [Also to strike you with another Gita verse, "I am Arjuna in Pandavas"- means He is the Ignorance of Pandavas?, this is more a funny question, not a literal one, i am now slightly understanding what you are saying]

Hari OM: Is it Chosen Few or benefit of All-decide fast So God 1) Created people with animalistic behaviour 2) Then created a strategy and set himself a Goal to elevate them from their animalistic behaviour 3) Strugglin with that strategy for billions of years with less than 0.000001% of success 4) Is torturing and creating misery in people so that they can migrate to new land and start inventing new thing [ however we should also "remember" that the people of Nigeria and Sudan are not tortured to become "better" people] 5) He has fixed a time limit, and also fixed a Set of people, when that time limit comes, all the choosen people would be saved and rest burnt (no matter the "rest" could be the "best") 6) He is keeping on Sowing for millions of Years for just one Harvest day, and most of his crop just rots or he has to "pluck" the crop and "Plant" it in different field, since he has initially "planted" it in a wrong country What a Poor, inefficient, stupid, cruel farmer He is

Hari OM: As per the Islamic belief, Muhammad travelled to Allah one day (called as Miraj), there he Saw Allah, spoke to him as well as saw Jesus sitting in his Right hand side, now if Allah had no form how can we have a Right hand side? As per remaining virigin, not very different from Hindu Belief, that damsels at Indira's Paradise (Menaka, Rambha, Urvasi), remain virigins for millions of years, even after having children (Sahkuntla was born to Vishvamitra and one damsel) Your other differences , i do agree, but are only minor difference i would say. The only major difference is then the End (or destination)

Hari OM: How do you know you are not affected by the same KaliYuga?