Sephiroth

only when you find the desires of this world are futile and only painful then you may begin to give them up, but when you give up lower desires you have to replace them with others higher goals. What is the difference between giving up desires which is painful (but not so painful when persuading it) with running away from facts? :hmm: It's like that story with the wolf who wanted to eat some grapes. He look at grapes which hung on grapevines above, and think "those grape look delicious". So he begin to jump and try to get some. After a while, as he get tired, he says, "Those grapes must be sour and not nice to eat, I go somewhere else", and left. By leaving desires which maybe too painful to bear, you maybe doing exactly as the Wolf did ... make excuse and run away.

There is no right path or wrong Path, and there is no Path leading AWAY from the God. All the paths lead to Him alone, some are short and sweet and some are long and difficult. That maybe your belief but not mine. I don't believe everyone who mumbles about God has any faith in God. Atheists also mumble about God, is that mean they have faith? Pali(Bali) was not slayed by Him because of his Grand father Prahalad, so exceptions does not become the rule. Nope, Bali didn't die by Lord Vishnu's hands because Bali had respect and love for Lord Vishnu. And also, Bali were in the side of righteous because his father was unjustly killed by Indra. only if all the Mankind will believe in "End of Times" which i think is not possible, a large portion of man kind may die due to wrong belief, however who don't believe in "End of Times" will again take birth , only the other group can't take birth due to their strong belief. There's another misconception from you. What Mankind believe or don't believe doesn't matter. IF God choose to destroy all life by destroying the Planet - that is His choice. IF God choose to safeguard Man and give him another chance (I don't why He want to do that), that is His choice. IF God choose to eliminate Man and replace Man with another species, that is His choice also. Stop having arrogant thoughts that you could change anything by your mere thoughts, as if you are the Great Maheswara. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Some people has the fear of knowing their past life for reasons best known to them only. Some people? Such statement can only come from a person who do not know about his past self. When one becomes aware of his past self, he will also become aware of a few things, like : 1. Attachments to the past - like in the above example with the young lady. She now becomes a burden to her pervious husband and son. Mahatma Gandhi knows about it, so Mahatma suggested she comes and stay in the asthram. 2. Your past sins. What if it comes back to haunt you? Sure, if you are a great devotee to God, you can become an example to your present self in promoting a better you. But what if you were a Commander of an invading force, who is in charge of hundreds of men who follow your commands, who you love them as your own family. What if this people, followed your command and did so much evil, now damned and it is falls on your shoulders to be reborn as a man, pray and do good deeds so they (your men in pervious existence) will be allowed to be reborned? If such pressure falls on your shoulders, are you capable of smilling and accept the deed?

remember big bang theory?At one stage all the running away galaxies, suns, stars adn planets will again join and form a single entity.Then another big bang will occur. Modern Scientists have three possibilities for the End of the Universe (but they cannot confirm which will happen because of the huge amount of Time needed and lack of Data). This three possibilities are : 1. The Universe will be so spread out to each other, that they will continue to move away from one another and drift away like a leaf on surface of water. 2. The galaxies in the Universe with collide with one another, emerging into new galaxies. When all the galaxies collide into a new one, no one will knows what will happen to this one, super condensed galaxy. 3. As matter gets thinner and thinner, gravity (which remains constant) will eventually pull back this matter into a singularity, same way you tie a ball to an elastic string and pull as far away as possible. In one period of time where you cannot pull anymore, the string will either break, or the movement stops, or the ball will bounce back. Since the string here is gravity, it is unlikely to break or stop. Hindusm made 3rd option as it choice, where it said that the Universe will fall back into Singularity once again and MAYBE, a new universe will emerge after all the matter converted into energy.

1. many of the relaly really REALLY old sites are under ground upon which sits sites already. Some of the sites are abandoned for ages and not been built on top of anything else. We start with those first. 2. finding adecuate space to do a meaningful historical dig is hard. Nonsense ... there are many historical sites in Deccan region which usually covered with jungle or deserts. ONLY sites which close to modern-day cities like Delhi, Goa etc is place where people over-crowded. India is one of the oldest civilizations on the Planet, ever pre-dating Egyptian Dynasties (which started about 4,500 B.C or so). According History, people already moved to India around 200,000 years ago (after migrating from Africa 250,000 years ago and settled in Mesotapmia Region). BUT due to lack of keeping records (like in China), a lot of historical facts are lost. IF Hindus were to save guard their beliefs, they must have proper historical records.

Muslim views EVERTHING that existed before Islam (and Muhammad) as "evil" and even called pre-Islamic period as Zaman Jihilliah (which, if not mistaken, means Age of Ignorance). So, by stating that Lord Shiva is worshipped in Arab before Islam come about, you can expect insults from Muslims who will claim that the social conditions were in such bad conditions because of worshipping of Lord Shiva. When I was in another forum, I opened a thread and asked them if is it possible for Muhammad to go to Iran/Iraq or even Afghan and meet Hindus or Buddhist there, and then, bring back what he learn and developed it into what today known as Islam. Answer I get - Islam is NOT similar to anything existed before. It is brand new, unrelated religion, dropped down to their (Muslims') laps by God. Also, some less fanatic ones will claim that there were other prophets (like Buddha and maybe Sri Krishna) before Muhammad BUT ALL their teachings are IRRELEVANT and CORRUPTED.

how exactly is this linkage shown in the kurma avatar stories? what part of the story makes one think about the nucleus and the mitochondria coming together? can you please elaborate using the story? Scientific Facts : 1. BEFORE Cambrian Explosion, organisms which has Nucleus were separate species, with no Mitochondria in them. 2. BEFORE Cambrian Explosion, organisms which were original Mitochindria were separate as well. No one knows what this original lifeforms look like or the full extend of their biological features (whether they are alive or non-living chemical components alone) because of lack of materials in studying the Original Mitochindria. 3. AFTER Cambrian Explosion, BOTH Nucleus and Mitochindria merged into One. The lifeform with Nucleus (already with bodily functions) emerged with Mitochindria and become a new species. I assume that Mitochondria is the Amiratham because : 1. It came from the Sea (just like lifeforms with Nucleus as well). 2. Before Cambrian Explosion, it was separate from Nucleus so "something" must have "forced" it into unifications with Nucleus and that "something" is Kurma Avatar. 3. The role of Mitochindria matches closely to what the Amitatham supposed to accomplish - give immortality to the body. Mitochondria also responsible for aging due to its interaction with Oxygen but if a lifeform do not have Oxygen but uses some other breathing method (such as Carbon Dixodi for example), the chance are that immortality can be established. Now, important question - Do you accept that there is high chance that Amiratham IS Mitochondria?

I look forward to the day when as much time, energy and money is put into archeology in India as is presently done in places like Egypt today. Maybe India should be the one who launchs Archeology expeditions to its ancient sites, rather than expecting Westerners to do so. I watch programs like National Geography and Discovery and noticed a few things like, some of the researchers are more keen in finding facts about their own religions (Abrahamic beliefs) and many times, make false statement and conclusions about other people's beliefs. They love to label such beliefs as superstition. Also, I watch pictures of ruins which is thousands of years old, been eaten away by erosion and sometimes, destroyed by man also. Many of Man's history is destroyed by this as well.

Sometimes, it is better if we don't remember our past lives. Remembering too much of the past will hinder the progress needed in the present.

Bhagavan states in Gita that "Man is composed of Faith, and whatever he Believes he is verily that" and we can conclude that this statement summarizes the Hinduism. And many times, you believe in wrong thing, follow wrong path and end up away from the Lord. How do you know when you are in the right path and when you are not? If you believe you are an Asuran (no pun indtended) then you are an Asuran waiting to be slayed by Him. Not all Asurans were slayed by Him. There are some who blessed by Him as well. Pali is one. And i also think due to this reason, Hinduism will again become a major force in recent future, Because all alien beliefs are now talking about "End of Times" so the time will soon end for them due to their strong belief and Hinduism will regain its past glory. OR Mankind will come to an End. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Just want to add something. The practise of placing the Emperor within the Forbidden City and not allowing him to leave is not accordance to Buddhism but accordance to Taoism. Taoism believed that Heaven and Earth is connected to one another. They believe that Heaven is controlled by a Jade Emperor (1st Emperor of China) while Earth (basically China) is controlled by the Emperor. By being inside the City and doing all the rituals and conducts properly, the Emperor was ensuring that his kingdom was blessed by the Ruler of the Heaven.

I heard a lot of teenage youngsters in US have taken up Celibacy Practise and saving themselves for marriage. It's a growing trend now, just like Sex was a growing trend back in 1980s before AIDS come around.

Is religion a mean or an end in itself? There is some religion, modified into become part of Living and Culture for a society. No founders, just people who experiemented with it for a long time and found which is the best course of actions in daily life, according to Nature so they could live in peace. And there is some religion, which sole purpose in existence is to give Placebo Effect for its followers. Placebo is a type of medicine given by some doctors to fool patients (who believe they have some sort of sickness when there is none) into believing they will become better.

no one said that dating this would change any of the facts in the story. it certainly does not. i was only wondering because i still rather stand by the volcano theory and was wondering what a probable date for it might be. I didn't ask you to change sides or believe what I thought is correct. However, if you accept your story, you must do extensive research to ensure that when others ask about it, you could be able to answer them, or they will end up ridiculing you and Kurma Avatar as fairy tale. That does same for me as well, which is why I have did extensive research for nearly two months before posting this theory anywhere and managed to iron out about 60% at least, the links between Kurma Avatar and Actual History and Science. as for the cambrian theory, i dont see how any group of peopel on this planet could have known so detailed a description of evetns that occured millions of years before the first humans were there. Like I said before, humans didn't know about it. Somehow, the story of the Avatar came to ears of Man who (not knowing its significants) spoke from one generation to another. Only now, with help of Science who studied the Natural History of the World, we can finally take the data and see whether what is told by the Ancient ones hold true or not. secondly, you are the one who speaks of devas fighting asuras as perhaps 'divine beings in the heavans' fighting each other, causing the cambrian period's developments. and you say i worship stone idols. you believein myth as if it is some giant entity. the devas and asuras are sometimes referred to symbolically as beings to represent aspects of nature or as people in realistic history. Sorry about me accusing you as Idol Worshipper. My anger got best of me. Anyway, you should remember something. Idolizing dieties (who originally aspects of Nature) is done by Hindus to ease understanding of Nature by generations to come. As time passes, Hindus begin to believe that Dewas and Asuras in human-like form actually existed, rather than to think them as aspect of nature. Back to the topic at hand, IF you believe Dewas and Asura (opposite of each other) are aspect of Nature, then could you believe that, somehow, Kurma Avatar managed to gather this two aspects of Nature in one place and used it to catalyst changes to Biological level in the Sea, which later gave rise to Cambrian Explosion? in this story, i believe it represents realistic history of people in the society labeled as devas vs those labeled by the society of yore as asuras. I thought so too, at first. But studying Cambrian Explosion brought newer light into the picture, plus, it did answer a lot other questions.

That isn't true, that's just a cooked-up story to popularise a temple in South India. lol. All people who fought at kurulshetra achieved moksha. I don't remember reading ANYWHERE that ALL people who fought in Kurushektra had achieved Moksha. I don't remember Arjuna receiving it either.

Hmph ... Now, I'm ignorant, eh? /images/graemlins/wink.gif Fine, have a nice day. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Before that, I like to apologize for my outbreak last week. I'm dealing with some Atheists in another forum and the anger got boil over to this forum. Sorry. in your theory, what exactly is kurma avatar? what is hjis position? Position? You mean what does Kurma Avatar actually did? It's role? If my theory is correct, Kurma Avatar is catalyst in linking two different organism into one new one - basically organism with Nucleus and another organism which later known as Mitochindria into a single organism which has both features. This in return makes Kurma Avatar catalyst for Evolutional process of years to come. From above process, all life in Earth begin to adapt Mitochondria as energy producer in Cellular level and abundant energy means new functions and faster evolutionary rate.

Note that this event had taken place after Gita was reveled to him, so you mean to say that the entire teaching of Bhagvan, showing his cosmic form, etc., will have no effect and man will remain continue to remain ignorant after that? Yeah ... Arjuna is an ignorant man. Reasons I say this because he didn't receive Moksha and have to be reborn again (as a devotee to Lord Shiva I believe). And no, no matter what God does or show, man (especially nowadays) will not believe in God or care. That is my belief, dealing with Men in various places. Ignorant men will not believe in the Truth, they will believe in whatever they wish to believe. That is why Kali yugam is here - Age of Destruction.

Your ideas or thoughts might be different, that doesn't mean you are right. You can always put your belief/comments in a more pleasant way rather than ridiculing others.... Alright ... you right. Sorry. I just feel annoyed whenever (not in this forum alone) someone present something new, someone says like "how old is that?" or "who wrote it down?" or "what is the history behind it?" etc. As if this meaningless questions going to change the facts within the information given.

"The Mind exists whether you are devotee or Slave. One who has a Mind will think things which has desires and beliefs" "you are under His control for need to constantly need to adjust your attitude to suit His expectations" ""I for once feel He should reject the 1st two and just choose the last two" i feel that there is contradications in these arguments, looks like you are saying ME to adjust myself to His desires and Beliefs, while at the same time you are also feeling that He should adjust to your beliefs and desires (reject 1 & 2 and accept only 3& 4), i think a honest crietria should be either Both of Us adjust to His desires or both of Us should be free to have own desires. You feel there is contradiction because you're blind. /images/graemlins/wink.gif None which I have spoke has contradiction to it. Statement 1 means I have a Mind, Statement 3 is my desire (it is upto Him to choose whether He accept or not, therefore, my desire is mine alone) and Statement 2 is my belief. Both Statement 2 and 3 comes from my mind and my mind has nothing to do with whether I'm a devotee or a slave. yes, Mahabharata tells that Arjuna wanted to fight with two brothers, even though Krishna told him not to do, but when Arjuna insisted Krishna told him that He will do as told (that is the day Abhimanyu dies) Sri Krishna knew that Abimanyu is destined to die and gave a hint to Arjuna not to leave that place (since he is the only person who knows how to break into the formation and save Abimanyu). But like all ignorant man, Arjuna followed his own desires and order Sri Krishna away. Same with your instinct. Sometimes, God will give feeling that you shouldn't go somewhere but you will be blinded by your desire and go there, only to be in trouble later.

4. Further he was cursed by a brahmana that his chariot wheel would plunge into the land during the war 5. Kunti got a boon from him only to kill one of his son. Karna spared during the war saving it for arjuna . Correction : 4. He was cursed that his chariot will stick in mud during crucial time in battle, not plunge. 5. Kunti devi asked him to use Nagaastra ONCE only, no more than that. If all this couldnt have happened Karna would have been the un matchable. Karna was the greates of the two , unfortunately he was with ADHARMA which made all his power go waste It's not wasted ... in the end, Karna, NOT Arjuna who receive Lord Vishnu's Moksha. His sacrifice was not in vain. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

As per definition of a slave, he should not have a belief and desire which is against his master, you are claiming that you are a Slave of God, but stating your desire is different from God's don't you think it is contradiction (at least the definition of the word slave) What kind of idiotic defination is that? The Mind exists whether you are devotee or Slave. One who has a Mind will think things which has desires and beliefs. No one can stop a person from thinking and holding beliefs. i was not talking about Hinduism , i told "YOU" in that statement (since you are a Slave). can you see now that you are claiming you are a Hindu, but thinking like an alien (SLAVE)? I didn't claim I was a Hindu, did I? And I'm talking about Hindusm here. You seems to think that following blindly like a cow with no intelligence is Hindusm. Well, I DON'T. again this seems as an alien concept to me, atleast in Mahabartha, God served as a Chartioteer to Arjuna.Lord Shiva served as a servant to SundraMurthy Nayanar (another story not in Mahabartha) In both stories, God become SERVANT, NOT SLAVES. Not sure about story of Lord Shiva, but for Sri Krishna, He controlled the chariots and took Arjuna where he is needed most. Can Arjuna go anywhere he please without Sri Krishna's permission? If you say Yes, Arjuna can, then that is like you are saying your legs are your slaves but your body and your legs can move separately and whereever they want to go, which is STUPID. That shows the Greatness of our God, he is willing to become your slave if you LOVE him and NOT threatning to make you as His SLAVE by use of Force. It is foolish people such as yourself who do not know WHO is WHOSE Slave. /images/graemlins/wink.gif To a mother, her child is hers but in reality, her heart is bound by her child and she cannot go anywhere without thinking about her child. In that context, the mother is the slave to the child, even so it looks the opposite to you. Save with husband and wife. The husband maybe the one who brings in money and wealth, hold power in decision and such, but by using bedroom policy, the wife can control his action. All this shows that, even so God seems to be in your disposal, the true fact is, you are under His control for need to constantly need to adjust your attitude to suit His expectations. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Do you think by knowing the actual date/period when Kurma Avatar purana is written down, you will know whether the events is true or false? People like you have no faith and pray to stone idols. /images/graemlins/wink.gif People with faith will take stories like this and see whether it has any truth to it or not.

Now you being an idiot. /images/graemlins/wink.gif How could they have known of this pre-cambrian explosions? please explain how a people from a latter time can possible know of an event that occured ona micro-biological level millions of years before hand with no prior knowledge from which to build or any technological equipment to measure with???? Did you even bother to wait for me to give detailed description about this before asking? Go and read above post. Also, how old exactly is the kurma avatar? IF my theory is true (and I believe it is), then Kurma Avatar should be over 1.5 BILLION years old, older even to the Dinosaurs.

Kurma Avatar Purana : 1. Dewas lost badly to Asura. Environments of the World is effected as well due to the War. 2. Dewas ran to Lord Vishnu for help. Lord Vishnu suggested churning to Ocean for Amiratham. Dewas approach Asuras for help, Asuras agreed. 3. Churning process begin. How long is unknown. Effect - a lot of new lifeforms which didn't exist before appeared. Vasuki vomited poison but Lord Shiva saved the day. 4. Amiratham appeared - Lord Vishnu took it and the rest follows accordingly. Actual Scientific Facts (follow point to point with above) : 1. Mass Extinction occured before a period known as Cambrian Explosion occured. Scientists found (through fossil records) that almost 80% of the World were covered in Ice and a lot of lifeforms has perished (this is concluded when Scientists found fossil records with their remains). 2. During the Period known as Cambrian Explosion, Scientists found out that "something" had tiled the World at angle of 45 degrees. This titling is known as True Polar Wandering. And Scientists also stated that such phenomena occured several times before as well. In nutshells, True Polar Wander means North Pole had "wandered off" to where the Equator is today and Equator line is running from north to south like the Polar line is today. This I believe is because of the Pressure from the Churning process had made the World turn 45 degrees. 3. Scientists also found evidence (in form of fossil records) of lifeforms with newer functions after a short 40 million years (period known as Cambrian Explosion). This features include thicker armours for some lifeforms, teeth to predator-like lifeform, Mitochondria cells emerging within other lifeforms and such, which made beginning stage for Evolution to come. 4. Mitochondria. Studies of it brings new light into its capabilities to rejuvenate human lifeforms. Mitochindria entered an endosymbiosis relationship with other lifeform during the period of Cambrian Explosion, and since then, continued to provide energy for all lifeform. Matter a fact, today, we have similar lifeform to that of Mitochindria known as Spirulina : http://www.spirulina.com/SPBSpirulina.html I believe Mitochondria is the Amiratham which refered to by the Purana because its capability to provide energy. Dewas must have need it because of its energy giving capability, so they will be stronger than Asuras. You maybe asking if we have Amirtham (all lifeforms HAS Mitochindria in them) in our body, then why don't we live forever? Answer is in limitations of Mitochondria itself. Mitochindrian genetic undergoes mutations when it mixed with Oxygen. When it takes in glucose and Oxygen, it burns this and release energy known as ATP which used by the body. However, due to Mitochondria's deal with Oxygen, its genetic material undergoes mutation and those which mutated were rejected from the Mitochindria and swallowed up by the Cell's defense system. In a long run, as strains of Mitochondrian DNA gets shorter due to above process, so is the energy production. With less and less energy produced and distributed to the body, more and more cells dies and organs begins to lose its functions. And this is the process we called Aging. IF Dewas are indeed beings who do not use Oxygen to produce energy like in human body, then Mitochondria in their body could not go into mutation and this could give them an unlimited supply of energy for a long period of time - thus immortality. Also, if you notice that in Hindusm, there is four periods which starts with Satyam Yugam and ends with Kali Yugam. It could make sense that this Yugam is split in four (with declining in each) to mimic the decline of effectiveness of Amiratham in lifeform to support the lifeforms capabilities. Which means, as time progresses, Humanity will lose more and more its Humanity and Intelligence and derive to become more animalistic in nature. This also means that other evolving lifeforms could take over our place as their Mitochondria reach a new height in evolution.