gHari

FREE WILL? From a letter from guru A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami: From conversations with guru A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami: Srimad Bhagavatam 10.24.15-16:

Avinash, you seem to not accept free will. Is that only true for conditioned souls?

Assume that Earth formed because of some big bang and some star also formed because of some big bang. Here we are talking different galaxies ("universes" as translated in the Bhagavatam)? Each universe-galaxy has its own big bang? I can't remember if I ever did resolve whether the Srimad Bhagavatam was referring to innumerable galaxies generated from Mahavishnu or whether it was innumerable cosmic worlds, each with many galaxies. Prior to reading it, I had always accepted the definition of "universe" to be the same as "cosmic world" (all energy/matter existing - the mahat-tattva), or so thought the scientific world in the sixties. Excerpts from "Vedic Cosmology and Modern Astronomy" by Dr. Richard Thompson (Sadputa das): <font color="#dedfdf"> [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 02-13-2002).]

Perhaps we are underestimating Krsna, thinking Him like us, only greater. When asked if Krsna could make a rock so heavy that He couldn't lift it, Prabhupada said that yes, He would make a rock He couldn't lift - and then He would lift it. Hence, why not free will, and still omniscience? If I have a time machine and see Leyh is in the Library at 8PM on March 1, then Leyh can exhibit all sorts of free will between now and then, and even in his choice to stay an extra hour at the Library that night. But he will be there, because I've seen the future. And that's just what Leyh does then, of his own sweet free will.

This QSS makes me think that the scientists are finally reading the Vedas, instead of smoking their bongs.

God could have asked the questions for their benefit, not His; since all His questions are rhetorical, by definition.

When I was in New York, we joined a parade of transcendental groups down Fifth Avenue. We took the Gaura-Nitai deities from the Padayatra group on a big cart. We ended up at Thompson Square Park and had a rockin' kirtan show. This could be a solution. Are they really glorifying Saint Patrick? With green beer? I guess the parade organizers have had their chance to exclude the devotees. CORRECTION: What am I saying. Gaura-Nitai had stopped in New York, and arranged a big parade down the main street of the world's most influential city. They brought us along to sing Their glories. We tagged along, reeling in Their glory. [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 02-12-2002).]

From Sri Caitanya Bhagavata, Madhya 13:

And of course, Bruce Wayne.

Avinash, I made those changes, and even found another "calmity" which turned into a "calamity" for Prahlada. Thank you very much. I found all but one, and as a suggestion, if you would ever consider being so kind again,,,,, perhaps inserted commas could appear like that. The one comma in Haridas Thakura's speech was not inserted because I thought that with his attitude of not being worthy of asking for great boons and that he would be happy just accepting remnants from devotees, being a dog in the house of a vaishnava, then he was likely referring to the devotees being totally surrendered to Krsna's lotus feet, not himself. I think I remember the story of the history of this translation now. A Bengali translated it onto a tape, and then Agrahya das quickly typed it in, in rough form. I guess this gives me a little more latitude with the English readability. Why do I do it, knowing there is now another fine edition available? Simply because I want it on my web site, where Christian seekers meet LOrd Caitanya's mercy. Hopefully it will be a reasonable translation. It does drowned me in mercy, so that can't be bad. If there is even more mercy in the editing than just the reading, I would offer the opportunity to anyone here to take any chapter after Madhya 14, and do a "VIEW SOURCE" to get a text file, and then start editing. It may not be mopping the temple room floor, but it does feel like service nonetheless. Avinash, I am much indebted. I am a mathematician, not a literary fellow. gHari

Avinash, You are very kind. I do appreciate your help, beyond words. With hundreds of changes, even after two passes, I knew I would have missed some. But I gotta get to the big ones first, like "Lard Visnu" and the scrambled unreadable passages. I am happy that someone even read it. Shame on those who didn't. Gauracandra, I don't know who the translator was. It came from a nice Prabhupada devotee called Agrahya das, who used to run the soc.religion.vaishnava newsgroup. He got all religious on us, and lost interest in our constant bickering. I'm sure he's doing well under the tutorship of BVNM now. I hope you read your version; it is a most important book. There is another version on the net somewhere, and I hope to be able to compare at some point some passages and names that may be inaccurate. Maybe you could comment on Madhya chapters 9, 10 and 13. It would be nice to make the Fellowship a spiritual place of pilgrimage again. gHari (No, not the famous Gaurahari, just Gary with a little Hari nam flavouring)

At last! Some positive support from the old wing. Thank you, Tarun. Maybe ISKCON does have to fake suicide, before the world realizes just how much they love her. ISKCON did not behave with spiritual integrity towards the maligned children, thereby falling under the jurisdiction and punishment of the material nature. Shocking headlines, but humility was missing, so I guess this is the price of the lesson. Hopefully this will revive Krsna consciousness throughout Prabhupada's mission, and destroy that attachment, ISKCON consciousness, forever.

Oh good. I was beginning to think that maybe I only had a six ounce brain after all, and I was planning a trip to Denmark for the sex change. You just saved me a lot of trouble; I don't even know how to tie a sari. And I'm sure I couldn't tolerate those chauvinistic temple men pushing me and my enchantress body to the back, far from my Lord Gauranga.

A variety of methods are described by Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita to realize the soul.

Yes, that may be it: I notice that while "satah" is translated as "eternal", "asatah" is translated as "nonexistent". My little sanskrit savvy suggests that we can also see "asatah" as meaning "not eternal" or as we often see "temporary" in referring to the body. The body is real and the world is real; they are just temporary, not eternal. ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

CHAPTER TEN will break your heart, and then place you on top of the world for the rest of your life. Twenty minutes of absolute wonder; free to those greedy enough to take it. Do it now. Just do it. Click!

Vampires, eh? Guess all this God crap was pretty boring by comparison, but like they say, "If you haven't room in your living room for an elephant, don't make friends with an elephant trainer." It takes a real man to face the real world; only one in a million can venture beyond the tiny cozy world of the mind.

I would agree that those I have met have all without exception been fine people. Perhaps the philosophy is just an extra impetus to reach for the sky - if he could it, so can we, type thing. I always admired Donny, sticking to his principles when the whole world was calling him a goodie-goodie wus. Little did we know, it was cool.

Pujar, I don't recognize this quote, the token. Do you remember where you heard it?

I give up. What type of spiritual practice can lead us to get this feeling? I hope there wasn't a prize for this riddle. I do so love prizes.

I still say, with an audience of 3.5 billion, we should have had Tarun's kirtan party on skates in Utah for the event. Will we see it before we die? The big football stadium crowds gathered for congregational chanting, worldcast to billions, all to provide a set of Bhagavatams to every underprivileged child in Africa.

Irreverend (as expected) from Johnnie, but then hilarious as hell when I saw "Teletubbies". Maybe it is time to laugh. But I must admit, my concern and disgust for the world has not dissipated much since that day in NY. Thanks for the laugh, Tarun.

Do all Mericans wear those feathers or is it just the Chiefs? If so, why not Mr. Bush? I had hoped for an original song from Sting. BTW, there is a documentary going round about an ex-Mormon from Utah who says he thinks they're a cult. After that other thread, my first impression was similar. At least now I know why Krsna never had me even open the Book of Mormon a childhood friend had given me in the seventies.

If we must do the anthropological thing: The Vedas have been around since the very beginning of the cosmic manifestation, indeed any of the innumerable cosmic manifestations. They are accessible to varying degrees in the hearts of every being, as svatah-siddha-jnana, the self-evident truth of God. This, along with sensory distortions and factional disparities in taste, prejudice, and spiritual advancement, account for the immense variety of trace and formal twisted or watered-down versions of the truth, scattered about the planet and throughout time. This is formally discussed in a brief scholarly treatise of Nonsectarian Religion.

Lots of words, but you start by saying that God comes from within, yet you don't know God. So how can you honestly reach such a conclusion? The infatuation with intellect and ego will keep you there forever, unless and until you can find someone who knows, who can free your heart from your mind's clutch. You have to accept God as something very puny, if you really think you will fit Him into that bucket of synapses. He is far beyond concepts and syllogisms. Who knows you better? Me or you? Listen to God and His friends who know Him. It is indeed stated that the self-evident truth about God (svatah-siddha-jnana) is an inherent part of the soul, that God resides in the heart. Using a map, a guide, and a car to find Zyktim, Kansas will prove infinitely more efficient than walking about randomly in Canada. Similarly, accepting the assistance of gurus, saints and scripture will expedite the inner journey, pointing out the path and the perils, and helping to remove the stumbling blocks in your way, readying you to be worthy of meeting your goal. In the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna tells the sincere seeker that one can spend millions of lifetimes speculating about Him, yet still never know Him. You and I don't have that long. We have both seen death; life is real for us now. I jumped in with full heart, in gentle deperation, in innocent faith. Now I can say to you, without the slightest doubt, that this is the real thing, that for which your heart of hearts aches constantly. One needs qualifications to see even the President, and even then we can't just walk up to him and say, "Waz up!" There is qualification to be met. There are protocols, procedures, respects to be observed. Therefore we become humble; gradually accept the help of gurus, saints and scripture; gradually somehow become qualified, and then gradually and suddenly God reveals Himself. Just like in the book - a grown-ups' fairy tale, living happily ever after. Hare Krsna. <font color=blue>REFERENCES TO THE SELF-EVIDENT TRUTH From A GARLAND OF VAISNAVA TRUTHS </font> ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God