vijay

I think its also the fact that prabhupada in a few places in his books empahasises the importance of milk and even says it helps in creating finer brain tissues to help in spiritual realisation. Its not obvious that the milk has to come from protected cows as Prabhupada never says that anywhere explicitily nor is it shown by his example. As devotees become more mature i guess they naturally become more compassionate and sensitive and think about the impact that their actions have on other living entities.

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I dont understand what the title means, I done a search and in some places the title is advertised as "unity and perversity" which makes a little more sense than "unity in perversity".

ISKCON never denys being a part of sanatan dharma, however the term hindu has multiple vague meanings and does not define a specifc religion nor is it defined by any scriptures but conjured up and evolves according to peoples understanding. Hindu can mean worship all gods, worship made up gods, we are gods or no gods. To some it means follow the vedas others follow any scriopture written by any so-called saint approved by the vedas or not. To some groups being hindu is about a combination of ethnicity and beliefs. ISKCON's so called religion is vaishnava as this describes the actual souls relationship to god ie worshipper of vishnu. You can generally say they are hindu by culture and vaishnava by religion. Krishna is not hindu neither is shiva nor anyone else. Hindu is a term that has no concrete meaning and not used in sastra. God is god. The soul according to gita ultimately is a worshipper of god, neither man,woman, black, white etc. The souls is the soul so on that level no one has any designation. However as a current description of all those that follow or claim to follow any vedic teachings are called hindu. Historically its only a recent phenomenon that hindus now refer to themselves as hindu in the last 300 years or so. Before that around the 8th century to around the 15th century people would describe their religions as either vaishnva saktashivite etc, and only as hindu to the muslims, as the muslims would lump them together. Prior to this the concept of hindus never really existed among the so called hindu people, it was a term given by persions to describe an ethnic group accross a river.Im sure most of you guys have heard this before but good to recap, the term hindu has its its uses in the right context.

I guess it shows prabhupada wasnt against it, compassion greater than traditionalism, but one has to be fixed first. I guess its similar to BI providing bridges to KC. I guess the expert devotees can take people to kc using bridges but the danger is always that people stay on the bridges if the devotee isnt powerful enough to push them across and the bridge eventually becomes KC.

Hamsaduta: I once heard that when some devotees wanted to buy a church in America you suggested that they should keep the altar and next put Radha-Krsna and give simultaneous lecture from Bible and from Bhagavad-gita. I was thinking that in Shree Lanka, if it would be all right to have a deity of Lord Buddha and speak simultaneously on the Dharmapatha(?) and also Bhagavad-gita, showing how Bhagavad-gita is beyond the stage of nirvana. Is that a good idea, Prabhupada, or not? Prabhupada: Good idea, provided you can present properly. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada I've also heard this church would remain as is and the seats etc remain intact and a temple created in another room. Prabhupada was said to of been annoyed when all the seating was taken out and the room turned to a temple.

From my copy of tattva sandharba i've got the following translation 12) tatra ca vedasabdasya samprati dusparatvad duradhigamarthatvac ca tadarthanirnayakanam muninam api parasparavirodhad vedaru po vedarthanirnayakas cetihasapuranatmakah sabda eva vicaraniyah / tatra ca yo va vedasabdo natmaviditah so pi taddrstyanumeya eveti samprati tasvaiva pramotpakatvam sthitam / tathahi mahabharate manaviye ca itihasapuranabhyam vedam samupabrmhayed iti puranat puranam iti canyatra / na cavedena vedasya brmhanam sambhavati na hy aparipurnasya kanakavalayasya trapuna puranam yujyate / nanu yadi vedasabdah puranam itihasam copadatte tarthi puranam anyad anvesaniyam / yadi tu na na tarhitihasapuranayor abhedo vedena / acyate visistaikarthapratipadakapadakadambasyapauruseyatvad abhede 'pi svarakramabhedad bhedanirdeso py upapadyate / rgadibhih saman anayor apauruseyatvenabhedo madhyandinasrutav eva vyajyata evam va are 'sya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad yad rgvedo yajurvedah samavedo 'tharvangirasa itihasah puranam ityadina // <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> "And here, since the Vedas are at present difficult to go through completely (due to unavailability of complete text and decrease in human memory) and hard to comprehend-for even the sages who sought to ascertain their meaning contradict one another-we will examine sabda in the form of Itihasa and Puranas alone, both of which partake of the nature of Vedas, and serve to ascertain the meaning of the Vedas. Furthermore, those portions of the Vedas which are not known on their own can only be inferred by examining Itihasa and Puranas. For these reasons, it is evident that in the present age, Itihasa and Puranas are alone capable of generating true knowledge. Thus we find in the Mahabharata and Manu Smriti, "One should supplement the Vedas with Itihasa and Puranas" (M.Bh.,Adiparvan 1/267); and elsewhere," 'Purana'is so called because it completes (purana)." For just as a chipped gold bracelet cannot be filled with lead, so also the Vedas cannot be supplemented by something non-vedic. But then, if we accept Itihasa and Purana as Vedas, won't we have to look for a seperate book called Purana. Otherwise, Itihasa and Puranas will be considered identical with the Vedas. To this we reply, even though this cluster of verses (Vedas, Puranas & Itihasas), all of which propound the same specific view, admits of no distinction, insofar as all the verses have emnated from Lord, still a distinction can be made in terms of word order and accent. The identity if Itihasa and Puranas with the Rgveda etc., with respect to their transcendental origin, is expressed in the Madhyandina Sruti itself: "...in the same way, my dear, what is know as the Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samaveda, Atharvaveda, Itihasa, Purana...has been breathed forth from that Supreme Lord" (Br.U. 2/4/10)". It looks like the incomplete aspect has been added and not from the verse as it is given in brackets, I could be wrong on that. The next verse points to the fact that bramhaloka has many more verses 13) ata eva skandaprabhasakhande pura tapas cacarogram amaranam pitamahah / avirbhutas tato vedah sasadangapadakramah // tatah puranam akhilam sarvasastramayam dhruvam / nityasabdamayam punyam satakotipravistaram / nirgatam brahmano vaktrat tasya bhedan nibodhata // brahmam puranam prathamam ityadi / atra satakotisankhya brahmaloke prasiddheti tathoktam / /trtiyaskandhe ca rgyajuhsamatharvakhyan vedan purvadibhir mukhaih / ityadiprakarane itihasapuranani pancamam vedam isvarah / sarvebhya eva vaktrebhyah sasrje sarvadarsanah // iti / api catra saksad eva vedasabdah prayuktah puranetihasayoh / anyatra ca puranam pancamo vedah / itihasah puranam ca pancamo veda ucyate / vedan adhyapayamasa mahabharatapancaman // ityadau anyatha vedan ityadav api pancamatvam navakalpyeta samana- jatiyanivesitatvat sankhyayah / bhavisyapurane karsnam ca pancamam vedam yan mahabharatam smrtam / iti / tatha ca samakauthumiyasakhayam chandogyopanisadi ca rfvedam bhagavo 'dhyemi yajurvedam samavedam atharvanam caturtham itihasam puranam pancamam vedanam vedam ityadi / ata eva asya mahato bhutasya ityadav itihasapuranayos caturnam evantarbhutatvakal- panaya prasiddhapratyakhyanam nirastam / tad uktam brahmam puranam prathamam ityadi // <o:p></o:p> "Therefore, it is stated in the Prabhasa Khanda of the Skanda Purana; "In ancient times, Brahma, the grandsire of the demigods, practiced severe austerities. As a result, the Vedas became manifest along with the six auxilliary branches and the pada and krama texts. Then the entire Purana, the embodiment of all the scriptures, unchanging, composed of the eternal sabda, sacred, and consisting of a hundred crores (of verses) issued forth from Brahma's mouth. Listen to the different divisions of that (Purana): the Brahma Purana is first..." (Sk.P. 2/3-5) The figure "a hundred crores" is mentioned here since that is known to be the number (of verses) which exist in Brahmaloka. And in the third skandha (of the Bhagavata): "He manifested the four Vedas, known as Rk, Yajus, Saman, and Atharvan, one after the other, from his four mouths, beginning with the one facing east." (Bh. P. 3/12/37) And in the same context:"Then, the all-seeing Lord manifested Itihasa and Puranas, the fifth Veda, from all of his mouths." (Bh. P.3/12/39) And here, the actual word "Veda" is used with reference to Itihasa and Puranas. Elsewhere we find:"The Purana is the fifth Veda;Itihasa and Puranas are said to be the fifth Veda;" (Bh. P.1/4/20) "He taught the vedas, with the Mahabharata as the fifth" (M.Bh., Moksadharma 340/11) etc. If it were not the case (that Itihasa and Puranas are Vedic in nature), then the characterization of then as the "fifth" in the preceding verses would be unwarranted, since only things of the same kind can be combined to form a single sum. It is stated in the Bhavisya Purana: "That which is known as the Mahabharata is Krsna Dvaipayana's (i.e. Vyasa's) fifth Veda" We also find in the Chandogya Upanisad of the Kauthumiya Sakha:"Sir, I have learned the Rgveda, the Yajurveda, the Samaveda, and the fourth, or Atharvaveda, as well as Itihasa and Purana, the fifth Veda among the Vedas" (Ch. U.7/1/2) Thus is refuted the well-known to be deleted belief that the terms, Itihasa and Purana, occurring in Br.U.2/4/10 refer merely to be deleted portions of the four Vedas themselves. Therefore it is stated," The Brahma Purana is first..." Im sure some of the sciences may have dissappered but it seems it may be possible the figure of only 6% of what vyas wrote is a bit of an exaggeration using the kurma purana verse. It may be true we have very limited knowledge compared to brahmaloka, but 6% of what vyas gave us is different. I dont see where jiva goswami is making that claim. I also dont see prabhupada saying this probably more often saying the contarary that most of it is there. The person who I heard this from hasnt got many years of sanskrit knowledge and could be incorrect but would be nice if someone with more access and knowledge can have a look at it.

Haribol, This is what I was shown, and I was told that this is a mistranslation of the Kurma purana, the divisons actually means branches taught to disciples, this person has translated the chapter so the context can be taken in to account and is has been showing devotee scholors to make sure. Will try and find out more when I see him.

I've heard this figure of 95% of the vedas being lost is a myth which came about by some french devotees mistranslating a verse for a book (I think the samskaras one not sure). Prabhupada has said nothing that indicates this. I will try and get more info on this

Haribol Allen prabhu, I think you are correct that there are many devotees that are not compassionate and have issues with their personality, just as we ourselves have. I have also complained about devotees not being as they should be for years, researching whats happened and then presenting my opinions on how to solve it. Only recently I've reliased that just by telling people what to do and how to behave is not going to help much (can even be quite unhelpful). Just like if someone asked me to be pure or change myself I wont do it straight away if at all. So in the same way I cant tell people what to do and expect them to change, If I want someone to change I have to be compassionate about it, we have to be the change we want to see, and if people see that it works they will follow in the same way. Devotees come from many backgrounds, some from disfunctional families degraded backgrounds and they try their best to stay on the path with their baggage, just as you do, we should help in the ways we can and they can help us in the ways they can.

Thanks, All glories to Lord Rama

Pusta Krsna: What we've been doing with the dead cows is burying them, there's no..., everything's wasted. Srila Prabhupada is proposing that why not the butcher take, we give free, he simply returns us the skin of the cow, and with the cow hide we properly tan it, we can make mrdanga heads for the khol, and shoes, straps, whatever may be needed. The idea being that in the Western countries especially, people are accustomed to eating animals, animal flesh. So we have no objection. Prabhupada: Beef, especially beef. Pusta Krsna: Especially cows and beef. So we have no objection, but they should at least wait until it dies naturally. What is the harm? They still get the same thing, and one devotee, Kirtanananda, I think, was saying that when they slaughter an animal even in the slaughterhouse, it has to sit some time, some number of days before they distribute it. So I proposed that the Westerners, they consider that this is superstitious, this protection of the cow. Prabhupada says Why superstitious? The cow is providing milk. Every child knows that he's getting milk from the cow, the cow is mother. So why in the old age we should slaughter mother? Is this a good argument that like, for example, they say, in India, how so many people are starving, why don't they eat the cows? So Prabhupada proposed that "If you're starving, does it mean that you eat your mother and father?" Prabhupada: If you want to eat, let the father and mother die, then eat. (laughter) Who has objection? Pusta Krsna: It's so reasonable. At least, Prabhupada says, for the saner section, they will accept. Hari-sauri: The thing is, people are mad after meat. Prabhupada: Madman... Pusta Krsna: But they still get it. Prabhupada: But he'll get meat. Hari-sauri: But then their argument is that if we don't have big, big slaughterhouses, then there won't be enough supply. Prabhupada: No why should...? After all, the animal is going to die. It is not for..., he's permanently. Why should you kill? Pusta Krsna: But they kill the animal first in the slaughterhouse and then do whatever they have to do. Dhrstadyumna: But we are killing when they are young, when their meat is fresh. When the body is old, the meat is... Prabhupada: That you have to change. Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death. Dhrstadyumna: But the old flesh is not... Prabhupada: Anyway, you do not..., you do whatever you like. So at least you can take free of charges a dead cow from us, and you can give us only the skin, and you eat. Dhrstadyumna: This should be the system. Pusta Krsna: It's so reasonable. Prabhupada: Yes. We don't want anything from you; you take it, the whole flesh. You take free. You simply give us the skin, we can utilize it. Pusta Krsna: Even if people would do this, it would be such an advancement. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Because a class of men will demand to eat the flesh. You cannot stop it. So we are giving free: you eat. And from economic point of view, we require the skin for our mrdanga making. So give us the skin. That's all. Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada says the butcher, even, he can sell the meat cheaply, make profit. He's getting it free of charge. Hari-sauri: Maybe some time in the future this could happen when Krsna consciousness becomes very powerful influence in the country, but unless we could actually close the slaughterhouse... Prabhupada: No, but now by imploring, we are requesting him that "You can take this cow and sell in your shop, butcher shop, you give us the skin. And you can tell the customer that it is as good, it is cheaper. So whatever money you get, that is your profit. You haven't got to invest anything." Dhrstadyumna: Do you propose that we should do this now, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: (laughs) No, no, this is... Think over. Hari-sauri: Yes, the proposition is very good, that's a fact. Prabhupada: First of all, you try one butcher, that "Why not make this advantage?" How does he react, see. Dhrstadyumna: Yes, that he will not pay anything... Prabhupada: He's not going to pay us. You simply take it and sell it. Pusta Krsna: They sell meat..., for one pound of meat, they can get sometimes two dollars, three dollars, four dollars. So much money... Dhrstadyumna: But the government has inspectors, a team of inspectors. No meat can be sold unless it is inspected, and then they want to examine the conditions. Prabhupada: So let them inspect. What is the wrong there? It should be open. If the inspection, there is nothing wrong, then they can do this business. Hari-sauri: Generally, though, their inspection is when the animal is alive, they check to see that he has no disease. Then they can be killed. But if an animal dies naturally, then generally it is to be supposed that it dies from some malfunction within the body, that there may be some diseases or whatever. So then... Prabhupada: That is artificial. Hari-sauri: But that is their rules and regulations they have. Prabhupada: They'll change. When they, by chemical analysis, they don't find any fault, then they can change. From economic point of view, why this body should be wasted? Let it be utilized. Those that are eating, let them eat. And economic point of view, we save the skin. We require it for our purpose. That is the agreement. After all, we require the skin for our khol making. Dhrstadyumna: For the farm straps? Pusta Krsna: Shoes, slippers, so many things. I think Kirtanananda Swami has done that with some of the cows. They have taken the hide for making things, straps. Hari-sauri: They're not doing it now, though. Prabhupada: But we should not do it ourselves. Dhrstadyumna: Yes, that's for the mucis. Prabhupada: That is not our business. Dhrstadyumna: Give it to the butcher. He will get the skin and give it to us. Prabhupada: Not that everything we have to do. No. That will deteriorate. Those who are doing, let it be done by them. Hari-sauri: It seems like it will be a long time before we can implement something like that. Prabhupada: I am proposing, think over it. Because it is a fact that in spite our vigorous propaganda, we cannot stop meat-eating. That is not possible. People will eat. So those who are eating, let us make some arrangement that "You take it free of charges." From economic point of view, they get it free. They can make good profit. And we are interested with the skin. So why not make some arrangement? It is practical. Hari-sauri: That's very good. Prabhupada: Instead of the thing being wasted for nothing, let us devise some means, that you are eating, you can eat. And we want the skin, let us give him. What is the wrong there? Pusta Krsna: Perfect economics. Prabhupada: Yes. We require the skin, that's a fact. And you want to eat, all right, eat. Pusta Krsna: Could such a thing be done today in India also? Prabhupada: No, why it will be done? Everywhere it should be. That is the... Who does not eat meat? First of all, you try this. From economic point of view, why one thing should be wasted? Dhrstadyumna: Practical preaching. Hari-sauri: We can't stop meat-eating, but we can stop the unnecessary slaughter of animals. Pusta Krsna: That would be a great step forward. Prabhupada: So our business is to stop slaughter. Meat-eating we cannot stop. Certain persons, they must eat. They are fourth-class, and then fifth-class men. There are four classifications--brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra and candala. Candalas, they will remain, and they are eating. Let them eat meat. That is the system in India still. It is not that in India nobody's eating meat. The cobbler class, they eat; the candala class, they eat. Pusta Krsna: Even cows, cow flesh. Prabhupada: Dead. This cow killing has been introduced by these Britishers. Dhrstadyumna: Christian. Prabhupada: Christians. Hari-sauri: Even they're exporting beef from India. Prabhupada: Yes. They can do anything, take the dead cows. I do not know if there is any chemical composition change. They are eating so many dead animals. Take for fish. The fish is never killed alive, because as soon as you take it out from water, it is dead, after few minutes. Pusta Krsna: And they don't consider whether it's a young fish or an old fish. Dhrstadyumna: If that was the system, people will not get sick. They will not get sick from eating old animals. Prabhupada: No, no. This is all wrong conception. Dhrstadyumna: They will say..., simply think the taste there is too tough, the skin may be older. Prabhupada: They are eating so many rotten things. Dhrstadyumna: Yes. And they are burning it, cooking it. Prabhupada: Lobster, it is simply pus. They eat. I've seen it. From whiteness it has become yellow. Puslike. They eat it, what is called that soup? Lobster soup? Pusta Krsna: Clam chowder? So many things. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Dear devotees, Please can someone give me insight on when fasting should end today noon or sunset, aslo do we break with grains or ekadashi? I've heard a few things any references would help to. Thank you! Hari Hari

Is vesectomy sinful? Was there a soul meant to enter... whoops the reproduction system has gone? Is this not the same as birth control?

Im not sure about the 84 yonis i thought it was a lot more than that, but usually what happens is after someone goes to hell, they dont take on a human body straight after, they usually go through animal births and then come to human.

I keep mine on me all the time I've had it for around 3 years, its still fine.

So is this thinking of oneself as god mayavada which prabhupada is so against? Or is this brahmavad, im not exactly sure how its different from mayavad.

Ive read statement by prabhupada a few time in the gita saying that seeing one self as god is okay but a lesser process leading to bhakti, but he also emphasises its dangerous maybe because one can become offensive to the lord. Any ideas? Is this the correct understanding? "By meditation one can be able to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by a gradual process. There are processes which make one understand that one himself is the Supreme, and that sort of meditation is preferred if one is unable to engage in devotional service. If one is not able to meditate in such a way, then there are prescribed duties, as enjoined in the Vedic literature, for the brahmanas, vaisyas and sudras, which we shall find in a later chapter of Bhagavad-gita. But in all cases, one should give up the result or fruits of labor; this means to employ the result of karma for some good cause. "

"Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn accepted Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji" Changes like these should be highlighted, may by writing to every gbc member might get the point across as im not sure even most GBC's know about this. I think the ritviks try to highlight this sort of stuff but because they are usually offensive most people ignore it.

What do you think of this? by Jayadvaita Swami Posted March 11, 2006 Thank you to Vyapaka Prabhu (and internet news sites) for highlighting two excellent examples of how the older editions of Srila Prabhupada’s books differ from the newer, more carefully edited ones. Here are those examples again (this time followed by the original text from which they came): Bhagavad-gita As It Is 1972 Edition:Discharging one’s specific duty in any field of action in accordance with varnasrama-dharma serves to elevate one to a higher status of life. 1983 Edition:Discharging one’s specific duty in any field of action in accordance with the orders of higher authorities serves to elevate one to a higher status of life. Srila Prabhupada's original manuscript (Chapter Two was personally typed by His Divine Grace):To discharge one’s specific duty in any field of action and as ordered by higher authority is the opportunity for being elevated in higher status of life. Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya 19.157: 1975 Edition:If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krsna Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. 1996 Edition:Even if one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krishna Consciousness Society, still one should stick to the Society; if one thinks the Society's members are not pure devotees, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. Original transcript:If one thinks in the Society there are many so-called devotees or there are so many nondevotees, still one should stick to the Society, and if one thinks the Society members are not pure devotees, he can directly keep company or in touch with the spiritual master. If there is any doubt he should consult the spiritual master. As you can plainly see, in both cases the later edition sticks more closely to Srila Prabhupada’s originally recorded words.

temples have been destroyed, and all of them will be destroyed if the muslims take over india no doubt. If india does become islamic it will be through conversion and multiplication, and its easy to convert hindus who arent really fixed up in vedic principles. Therefore preach, a strong vedic india can do much.

muslims advocates of terrorism should be dealth with properly, as should the communist terrorists and other such types, aswell as the rest of the population should be educated properly according to deep principals of god including compassion to everyone, rather than the ideology of consumerism endless desires greed exploitation material progress without spritual progress. spirtuality becomes an option not taught at school or society neither are basic morals, then people wonder why people are degrading so much.

Some muslims may be a nusiance, so are other corrupt people, more damage is done by corrupt governements (all sorts of people) who mis spend millions, millions die because of corruption, cash strapped doctors hospitals, schools. Murders and abuse take more lives than any islamic terrorists, cancer suicide, malnutrition, caste deaths and discrimination. Why dont people jump up in arms about all these needless deaths and abuses, and become passionate about these basic things? Never mind the needless animal slaughter and torture that people seem to think is okay throughout the world. Its sensationalism, just like the tsunami, alot of poverty deaths etc, the media potray so the crowd help and ask "y did this happen?", more people die in accidents wars hunger etc every week than tsunami, but we dont care unless it happens in a special effect sort of way. The biggest natural disaster is that we are here in an unnatural world. Dont expect peace in this material world no matter how you try and adjust it. Education as given by Sri Krishna to get out of the dump and live life according to his rules is the only way otherwise we all have our own types of morality that always will conflict with others.

Muslims disrecpect hindus generally thats true, they disrespect diety worship the vedas etc, so why on earth do hindus give more rights to the muslims? Why not the same? Or even vedic law in india, why is it secular? Again its the wishy washy non-dualistic confused morality of hindus, that try to be compassionate and moral but its actually harmful kindness, its like giving loads of chocalate to a kid, in the long term its destructive. Then theres a reaction and we have neo-hindus to balance things out (clean the toliet) because the hindus previously went the other way too much, too apeasing to nonsense. The swings of karma.

Whats the point of over endeaving in cleaning the toliet, just get out, and encourage others to do so. Stay in the toliet too long your bound to get splattered. Excuse the gross example.