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Everything posted by vijay

  1. As you said hints are given to who is pure, and judging those qualities depends on the sincerity of the disciple. Can you tell me who is self realised on this planet at the current moment if its supposed to be so obvious? who is having lila with radha krsna currently? Prabhupada is quite clear that guru is given by krsna to the degree one is sincere. There is no mechanical formula, intelligence helps but ultimately krsna awards to our sincerity, we can be scholars of sastra but without humility and sincerity you will be mislead. "So, finding a bona fide guru requires intelligence and sincerity. If you are serious about understanding the goal of life, spiritual knowledge, then Kåñëa will help you. He is situated in everyone's heart, and he understands when you are sincerely seeking the Absolute Truth. Then He gives direction: "Go to this person." Kåñëa is already giving direction in every respect. We want to do so many things, and Kåñëa is giving us the facility. As He says in the Bhagavad-gétä [18.61], éçvaraù sarva-bhütänäà håd-deçe 'rjuna tiñöhati bhrämayan sarva-bhütäni. As the Supersoul in the heart, Kåñëa is giving facilities to all living entities in their wanderings throughout the various species. But when one becomes very eager to understand Kåñëa, or God, He is glad to give instruction: "Go to such-and-such person and submissively inquire from him. You'll be enlightened." Guru-kåñëa-prasäde päya bhakti-latä-béja: [Cc. Madhya 19.151] By the mercy of the spiritual master and Kåñëa one can make spiritual advancement. One must simply be sincere." You have to approach such a person whose certificate will ensure that Kåñëa will be satisfied. You have to find out such person. Then your life is success. That will also... You will get according to your sincerity of purpose because Kåñëa is within you. You must know the preliminary law. Just like if you want to purchase gold, at least you must know where gold is available. If you want to purchase diamond... So you must know, if you are so foolish that you go to a butcher shop and ask him to supply diamond or gold, then you'll be cheated. You must know at least where to go and purchase gold or diamond. These are valuable things. So that requires little intelligence and sincerity. If we are sincere that "I want to purchase gold or diamond..." This is crude example, but the spiritual inquiry..., if one is actually serious about understanding the goal of life, spiritual knowledge, then Kåñëa is situated in everyone's heart. He understands how this person is sincerely seeking. Then He'll give direction that "You do this." He is giving direction in every respect. We want to do so many things, so Kåñëa is giving us facility.
  2. There is nothing wrong with being attached to prabhupada. But there are different qualities of attachment. There is being attached to him and disregarding all other vaishnavas. Just like in so-called love there is obsessive, compulsive,selfish or self less love. But all are classed as attachment. There are people that are attached to allah but are willing to blow up other living entities. These are extreme examples but it is for us to know what type of attachment we have. To what degree is it based on selfless love of krishna and to what degree is it based on our false ego.
  3. Similar to what Kulapavana prabhu said, it doesnt matter how many quotes you give about how a pure devotee can not fall the fact is you can never know who is completely pure or nearly pure. Only a pure devotee can know another pure devotee, Krishna will send you some one you deserve, according to your desire and sincerity. The only thing you can do is ask people to read prabhupadas books deeply so they gain more of an idea, purity and sincerity to recognise purity and start seeing devotees (including gurus) as manifestations of krishna, rather than as individual personality cults of charisma and sentiment (includes seeing prabhupada in this way as many do). Any other organisational suggestions are secondry to this principle.
  4. Does the below conversation mean that bhaktisidhanta swami allowed grains for preaching or was it just not a full fast. Tamäla Kåñëa: No, I mean on ekädaçé. Prabhupäda: Oh yes. Ekädaçé, simply you should chant. No other business. Nirjala. Tamäla Kåñëa: No preaching work? Should they go out for preaching? Prabhupäda: No, those who are preaching, not for them. Those who are sitting idle, or they... (laughter) [break] ...has no other regulation, simply preaching. A preacher is so exalted. He hasn't got to follow any regulation. But don't take it. (laughter) And actually if one is busy in preaching work, that is first-class. [break] ...not my manufactured word, my Guru Mahäräja, that the... That Mädhava Mahäräja, when he was a brahmacäré, his name was Hayagréva. So he was to go somewhere. So but he was sick. Guru Mahäräja was informed that he was sick and "Today is ekädaçé. He cannot take his regular meals." So Guru Mahäräja said, "No. Let him take immediately meals and go." Revaténandana: For preaching. [break] Tamäla Kåñëa: ...Mahäräja would sacrifice everything for preaching.
  5. I heard another understanding of this verse, the person was saying that their understanding is that this refers to being elevated to a Vaikunatha planet while still in this body--jivan mukta. One *can* fall (or jump) from prema. One can lose an exalted consciousness due to a deliberate offense. I guess there are also other explanations.
  6. I remember some devotees on this forum saying that there is no mention of prabhupada saying that devotees can fall from vaikuntha anywhere in his books. He also seems to be saying this is said in Jiva goswami's works and its from skanda purana. CC.Adi15.9 "From the very beginning of His childhood life Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu introduced the system of observing a fast on the Ekädaçé day. In the Bhakti-sandarbha, by Çréla Jéva Gosvämé, there is a quotation from the Skanda Puräëa admonishing that a person who eats grains on Ekädaçé becomes a murderer of his mother, father, brother and spiritual master, and even if he is elevated to a Vaikuëöha planet, he falls down. On Ekädaçé, everything is cooked for Viñëu, including regular grains and dhal, but it is enjoined that a Vaiñëava should not even take viñëu-prasädam on Ekädaçé. It is said that a Vaiñëava does not accept anything eatable that is not offered to Lord Viñëu, but on Ekädaçé a Vaiñëava should not touch even mahä-prasädam offered to Viñëu, although such prasädam may be kept for being eaten the next day. It is strictly forbidden for one to accept any kind of grain on Ekädaçé, even if it is offered to Lord Viñëu."
  7. Haribol prabhu, I'll add my 2 bits worth, I have had the same questions, its a fact that a conditioned soul can never know a pure devotee either by his own calculations or by others proclaiming it. Only a pure devotee can know another pure devotee. What we can see is a stage that is just above us, we cant know how high someone is but we can know he is higher. EG Someone always preaching or engaged in service and chanting the lords name that deals with vaishnavas nicely means I can learn a lot from him, and therefore I will associate with him to obtain those qualities. This is a guru. The person who you can learn the most from to get to a stage where you can think of Krishna is Guru. Prabhupada's simple criteria for finding a guru was See how addicted he is to Krishna, in every page he talks about krisna. When I first heard this I dismissed it and looked for more technical answers in sastra. You nor anyone on these forums unless they are unconditioned souls cant garantee to anyone that some guru will not fall. The only thing you can do is find and accept to learn humbly from a senior devotee that exhibts the qualities of a vaishnava and shows his love for krishna by his activities for him. From this devotee learn everything you can treating him with the same respect as god. Although the guru has a special place we are suppose to treat any vaishnava with the same respect as god (even including guests and parents (ignoring anything they say thats not condusive for kc though)), as they are all to some degree via mediums to Krishna and pleasing Krishna. Your guru may or may not fall down, either way what gets you back to krishna is your conciousness of Krishna serving all the vaishnavas not just the diksha guru. If your diksha guru falls its Krishnas arrangement, he gives us what we need in the ultimate sense. We should realise that its not mearly diksha that gets you back to krishna its siksa, this could be from your diksa guru or other vaishnavas. In the begining stages basic siksa from not strong devotees can take us a long way in our bhakti as they are more advanced than us, but in our advanced stages we need guidance from devotees more advance than us. When a guru falls down krishna gives us what we deserve and from that we can learn, you take a guru cos he;s logical or a good singer and he falls next time you will hopefully learn its deeper than that if you've advanced in the path of bhakti onwards and forwards. We will make mistakes its natural and something to learn from it brings us closer to krishna, we have been stuck in this hole for millions of lives we are mad so mistakes will happen but ultimately they teach us something. Dont use the fear of making a mistake a reason not to take formal initiation and serving the spiritual master and other siksa gurus. One thing is read prabhupadas books very carefully and scrutinize what he is saying. The more we can do this the more we can sharpen our spiritual intelligence and remove our conditioning thus we dont have to learn lessons the hard way. We should also try and learn the basics of guru tatva which im still trying to get my head around. Neophtes generally think only my guru is the best hell with the rest. Madhayamas only learn from my guru and the senior vaishnavas, a devotee higher than that sees his guru as all the vaishnavas and even sees guru in the non devotees adn learns lesson from nature as well (the autumn season in vrindavan - krishna book). When one is even more humbler he hears paramatma directly which is also the manifestation of guru, rather than the singular personality cult guru that most people view their guru as.(The personality cult guru is a natural first step in krishna conciousness as it attracts the devotees but can be dangerous after a while if no further understanding is gained and/or the guru is not so advanced (early prabhupada days was similar) These are some of the thoughts I've had when thinking about this topic which im ever learning about, hope that helps.
  8. I agree, I guess on my side I must treat all elders,seniors as good as god, the vedic understanding is you even treat your guests who may be non devotees as good as god let alone devotees and disciples of senior vaishnavas. Prahlad maharaja had the utmost respect and love for his father this is as it should be, however he never accepted anything he said that was unfavorable for devotional service. Ultimately all living entites should be respected as good as god as they are parts and parcels. Not just guru's which leads to cultish behaviour. Respected as good as god, the trees, parents, the 'karmis', the world, the only difference is that some living entities are more conditioned than others therefore we take the association of those who are less conditioned or not conditioned at all and with the others we respectfully try to help them using whatever social relationship as a tool. As you said for ourselves we should be introspective and very critical of what we ourselves are doing. For others we should be compassionate and respectful (I guess sometimes people have to be cut but obviously the mood should be correct which is the hardest part since my ego is so big). PS. I like the dog marking his turf by peeing example, il use that one it can be applied anywhere, i love graphic examples (-:
  9. Thanks for that theist prabhu, nice perspective. Im a relative junior in terms of age at least, i find myself pinning for the mid ninties when I first joined, to most its a time of no big deal, to others a terrible time, but for me I wanted to give my life to krishna during those days. Now I see all the so called cracks and faults, im living more in the 'realworld' and im less surrendered. Your so right the nostalagia is nonsense. We have Krishna now but we've just moved back into the realworld(maya conciousness), hankering for what we already have.
  10. Conversation: Vairägya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay 770428rc.bom Conversation: Vairägya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette — April 28, 1977, Bombay Prabhupäda: Niñkiïcanasya. One who has decided that "This world is useless. I have to take birth repeatedly and accept different types of bodies and suffer." Body means... Those who have understood this fact and disgusted, so bhakti line is for them. One who has the tendency to enjoy this material world, and they are taking advantage of God, "Give me good wife, give me good work, good meal, good enjoyment," they are not in the bhakti line. They are in the very nascent stage. Tamäla Kåñëa: Nescient stage? Prabhupäda: Lower stage. Vairägya-vidyä-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. That... There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhaööäcärya. What page I don't... Çikñärtham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Kåñëa. And that is vairägya-vidyä, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahäprabhu gave up His gåhastha life? He's the same person. Why Rüpa Gosvämé gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairägya-vidyä. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairägya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand? Tamäla Kåñëa: Yes, I do. Prabhupäda: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a gåhastha, and enjoy gåhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacäré and sannyäsé, our, mainly, not for gåhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is gåhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged. Tamäla Kåñëa: Generally in our temples, within the temple building no gåhasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But it's... Prabhupäda: No, I am speaking, within the temple. Tamäla Kåñëa: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the gåhastha living together with wife. I don't think there's any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be... Prabhupäda: Adjoining buildings... But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing. Tamäla Kåñëa: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments, like that. Prabhupäda: But that is temple. Tamäla Kåñëa: Yeah. Prabhupäda: Just like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or... No, they are earning their own way. Tamäla Kåñëa: In other words, if the temple provides an apartment, it's the same as paying a salary. Prabhupäda: Hm? Tamäla Kåñëa: In other words, giving an apartment is the same thing as providing a salary. Prabhupäda: All right, apartment can be... But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential—"All right, you take apartment." Tamäla Kåñëa: But not... Prabhupäda: You take prasädam. But why salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairägya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he can work outside. Tamäla Kåñëa: Actually, even if you don't give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life... Prabhupäda: Because his service is essential. Tamäla Kåñëa: But that has to be determined very strictly. Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him. Tamäla Kåñëa: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged. Prabhupäda: Hm hm. So he's trying to practice... Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service, then gradually he'll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvädau svayam eva sphuraty adaù [brs. 1.2.234]. God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more you become advanced in devotional... So one who is giving service, dedicated life, so maybe... But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate, man separate. Tamäla Kåñëa: They're... But the actual thing is that they're being, living together in an apartment, and the temple is paying for that apartment. They're not living separately in the temple. They're being... Prabhupäda: That is to be discouraged. What do you think? Giriräja: I agree. Prabhupäda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiñëavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful. Tamäla Kåñëa: Vairägya should be cultivated. Prabhupäda: Vairägya... Caitanya Mahäprabhu says clearly that niñkiïcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmä or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaëä daiva-netreëa jantur deha-upapattaye [sB 3.31.1]. He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmä, and there is ant in the stool. So vairägya-vidyä-nija... Väsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaù prayojitaù [sB 1.2.7], janayaty äçu vairägyam. And vairägyam means jïänam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jïänam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairägya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhütaù prasannätmä na çocati na käìkñati [bg. 18.54]. That is vairägya. So vairägya-vidyä... Otherwise why big, big persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Mahäräja, young man, the emperor of the whole world, gave up everything. Caitanya Mahäprabhu personally teaches, young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much honor in the society, Nimäi Paëòita, so beautiful body... Tyaktvä sudustyaja-surepsita-räjya-lakñmém [sB 11.5.34]. Surepsita. Caitanya Mahäprabhu's position was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up. That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma Bhaööäcärya says, vairägya-vidyä-nija-bhak..., çikñärtham: "to teach others." He understood that in order to teach others vairägya-vidyä... He is the Supreme Person. Vairägya-vidyä-nija-bhakti-yoga-çikñärtham ekaù puräëa-puruñaù: [Cc. Madhya 6.254] "That He was, Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Çré Kåñëa Caitanya."Çaréra-dhäré: "He has accepted one body as Çré Kåñëa Caitanya." So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... You decide. This is not to our... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that "Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent for..." So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, "Welcome." Otherwise we don't require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle. Tamäla Kåñëa: I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura. He always maintained a government service job, and still... Prabhupäda: He gave so much service to Kåñëa. From his family maintenance... He could have renounced, but he said that the family has to be maintained. So he... Markaöa-vairägya. Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura was against giving sannyäsa. He didn't like these bäbäjés. They were markaöa-vairägya, superficially... Markaöa-vairägya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That is vairägya. But three dozen wives. Markaöa-vairägya. Markaöa means monkey. Superficially vairägya, nägä-bäbä. They eat vegetables, fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairägya. But sex. We have... I have seen in Våndävana. They have got a party, each monkey, women's party, and the male will come to any female, "Now ready,Enter." You can see it. Markaöa-vairägya nähi paraloka dasaya(?).So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into... Tamäla Kåñëa: The Christians had that happen to them. Prabhupäda: Hm? Tamäla Kåñëa: The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense gratification. Prabhupäda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all. Tamäla Kåñëa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order. Prabhupäda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.
  11. I get angry sometimes when someone says something about prabhupada, (by the way we are doing his vyas puja tomorrow (-: ), however this anger is not based on pure motives. Prabhupada or krishna doesnt need to be defended by me neither do i know their real greatness, usually its our egos we are defending. If we do debate someone it should be done out of compassion, and purification of the other person this will purify us and them. If a drunk started slating the guru parampara, i would be stupid to try and defeat the drunk, I would understand that he is not thinking straight and try and rectify him in a way and when he can understand. If a conditioned illusioned intellectual said something about the guru parampara, its the same thing as the drunk, this guy just has a different type of conditioning and needs to be rectified for his benefit in another way. All these souls are lost servants of Krishna, uncontrolled anger without compassion is usually food to the ego and reinforces the illusion. If we cant be compassionate then better to keep it short and walk away, as anger will cloud the mind/intelligence and usually bring out a negative effect. Even sai baba, these guys are just a product of another type of conditioning by the modes, and when preaching to them depending on how they can best learn we should be cutting for their own good and loving when we need to be. Its easy to get caught up and think we are better than them this will keep us in the material world longer, the correct way to think is that we could of been in that situation but by the grace of the devotees we were saved, in that mood we may save others. Anger is a tool that should be in our control in the loving compassionate service of mahaprabhu, not something that controls us. A devotee is only angry on the surface for the rectification of others, just like a mother only shows anger at the child not out of hate but love. Arjuna fought due to love for krishna and hunman burned down ravanas kingdom to please lord ram, anger used in lord rams service, hanuman would never of done that if it displeased lord ram. I recently got a whole load of quotes from prabhupada about anger and could see how devotees usually take and interpret the quotes in their own way, prabhupada said many things about anger and he usually qualifies when anger can be used and how, he sometimes gives different instructions to beginners as they may not be able to do the ideal, however its good to get a grip with the ladder so we know where we are and what we should aim for. If one is going to get angry anyway then better to engage it in Krishna’s service, however they should eventually try and curb it. Some people use pure devotees as justification for anger like when prabhupada got angry or hanuman or Arjuna. However our anger and their anger are qualitatively different. “As the Lord is not affected by the modes of material nature, so a pure devotee of the Lord is also not affected by the modes of nature. That is the primary qualification of being one with the Lord. A person who is able to attain this transcendental qualification is called jivanmukta, or liberated, even though he is apparently in material conditions.” S.B. 3.4.31 Even though he appears to be in the material world, he is not affected by the miseries of the material world...Those who are sadhavah, or devotees engaged in Krsna consciousness in the transcendental service of the Lord, do not feel the contamination of material miseries, whereas those who are not devotees in Krsna consciousness actually feel the miseries of material existence.” S.B. 3.25.24 Letter to Tamal Krsna, June 1970, from Los Angeles “An ignorant person may see that a devotee is acting or working like an ordinary man, but such a person with a poor fund of knowledge does not know that the activities of the devotee or of the Lord are not contaminated by impure consciousness or matter. They are transcendental to the three modes of material nature." “Even a most learned scholar cannot understand the activities and symptoms of an exalted personality in whose heart love of Godhead has awakened.” “A Vaisnava is always protected by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if he appears to be an invalid, this gives a chance to his disciples to serve him.”
  12. A few of us talked about anger recently, I think sometimes this is abused in justification for feeling angry. Anger is caused because of an excessive attachment to something. In the case of Hunuman and Arjuna they were excessively attached 100% to the lord, and thus their anger is trancendental. However most of us are attached to mundane things and get angery due to excessive attachment to matter and subtle misconceptions, this is degrading as its in the mode of ignorance. To the degree we are krishna concious attached to krishna then that much our anger is trancendental. If im 5% KC and 95% attached to matter then more than likely my anger isnt due to transendental attachment to the lord and tinged with matter. Thats why in the gita in many places krishna and prabhupada have warned us against mundane anger as one of the gates leading to hell. If one is in the begining stages and in the mode of passion and can not currently restrict it then better he engage it someohow in krishnas service yukta vairagya, but to advance one must be careful where that anger is coming from as most of the time the source is mundane. Even sometimes in the name of protecting devotees the above quote can be abused as the anger is not actually in the service of the lord but may be in service of our ego or other subtle secterian reasons not really intended to benifit the abuser or abused.
  13. This is nice did you get this from somewhere?
  14. I agree in situations where this label helps then fine. If you have a read through prabhupadas conversations when he was talking to people especially proffesors he avoided the term hindu as it brings about a whole load of other baggage in people minds as its defined in different ways in peoples heads especially in the west. He used the terms santana dharma, eternal religion of the soul. It doesnt matter if one proclaims himself a practitioner of any religion, the laws of god are binding on all. Just like the laws of the state are binding on all no matter what religion they are. In the same sense the philosophical laws in the gita are applicable to all whether they are hindu, christian or muslim, you dont have to convert to chant mahamantra, take up the philosophy and follow the principles. You can remain a christian and chant gods names and follow the 4 principles of being vegi, no intoxication,no illicit sex, and no gambiling. A muslim and a jew can do the same. Prabhupadas mission was to give people real god conciousness, no matter what they label themselves. If they then want to label themsleves hindu fine if the want to continue to use the christian label as one may accept the bible also then thats also fine as long as one is following the principles of bhakti yoga. The main thing is to bring people to God conciousness if a particular temporary word/label helps to get the message in their minds then use it. One may be a hindu this life a muslim in another a christian in another, the aim of all is to be god concious, if a label helps in that cause then use it. If its counterproductive and people get attached to labels and not god conciousness then its counterproductive, as we've seen is the tendancy in many religions.
  15. Most of that post was copy and paste from the links I posted, I havent got the ability to write in a scholorly way. I personally dont feel that you need any certificate to worship god, whether you are western or indian. Its funny how an indian-hindu who may be eating meat drinking not have a clue about hinduism etc is allowed inside a temple but a western bodied person who is worshipping the lord with his heart and following principles is denied access. Best thing to do is educate people in real god conciosness and not label conciosness as labels change.
  16. One of your definitions of a hindu and the governements definition of a hindu is that they accept the vedas as ultimate authority. And your definition is they believe in a god. According to the indian law at least jains still come under hinduism although they dont believe in the vedas. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism) (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/690490.cms) Officially, there are no bars for anyone to be a hindu, and anyone who proclaims himself a Hindu is a Hindu. Legally, according to clause 2(b) of article 25 of indian constiturion<SUP class=reference id=_ref-3>[4]</SUP> Sikh, Jain and Buddh are also construed as a subsect of Hinduism, i.e. for example, if they wish to register their marriage, they shall do so under Hindu Marriage Act or Special Marriage Act There are atheistic movements in hinduism, Nastika In Hindu philosophy, there were three schools of thoughts commonly referred to as Nastiks. They were Jainism, Buddhism and Carvaka for rejecting the doctrine of Vedas. In Hindu philosophy, Nastika referred to the non-belief of Vedas rather than non-belief of creationist God. Although, all the Nastiqa schools of thoughts were also athiests as they lacked the place for creationist god in their basic philosophies. Carvaka, a athiestic school of thought of Hinduism, traces its origins to 600 BCE. Carvaka philosophy appears to have died out some time after 1400 CE. Buddhism and Jainism also have their origins before 300 BCE. [edit] Astik athiesm Amongst the Astik schools of thoughts, Purva Mimamsa and Samkhya<SUP class=reference id=_ref-2>[3]</SUP> were known to be athiests, as there was no place for creationist God in their beliefs. They are considered Astiks as they accepted the doctrine of Vedas. It is however notable that the Mimamsa school of thought turned thiestic later. [edit] Prominent personalities There have been many prominent personalities who espoused athiesm and Hinduism at the same time. Well known personality, Veer savarkar, who was president of Hindu Mahasabha was an athiest<SUP class=reference id=_ref-4>[5]</SUP>. He is credited for developing a Hindu nationalist political ideology he termed as Hindutva (Hinduness). What the governments opinion, your opinions and the RSS's opinion on what a hindu is differs. Take a look at the is jainism hindu debate where jains now want a seperate legal identity. The BJP and RSS seem to have a different view on what makes a hindu which keeps changing. http://voiceofdharma.com/books/wiah/ch7.htm Who's view is the correct one, your giving me a nice clear definnition but what about the other points of view that have been debated for the last 200 years? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu Until about 19th century, the term Hindu implied a culture and ethnicity and not religion alone. So Hindus have adopted this term because "Hind" (India) is their motherland. The term some Hindus have used for their religious beliefs is Sanatan Dharma ("Eternal Dharma" - see also Dharma). When the British colonial government started taking a periodic census and established a unified legal system, the need arose to define what constitutes Hinduism as a religion, in order to compare it with the likes of Christianity or Islam. Since then, various definitions have been proposed by scholars like Bal Gangadhar Tilak, who defined it as a religion based on the Vedas, just as the Bible and the Qur'an are the basis of Christianity and Islam, respectively. The old Persian definition of "Hindu" would club all people living in India into a single group called "Hindus". However, today all Indians are not called Hindus simply to be able to differentiate between adherants of different faiths, and also with respect to peoples' sentiments. Who is a Hindu? A Hindu is one who follows his or her own religion of Sva-Dharma, practices Bhakti (devotion) on any form of God (who is Brahman or creator of the universe), practices virtuous path of life believing in the concept of Karma for the purpose of Moksha. Sva - is the "self". Karma is the law of eternal onus of one's actions leading to balanced effects for all times to come. Moksha is the ultimate resolution of life and death cycle. Some have proposed that a Hindu is one who believes in the Vedas ("Vaidik Dharma"). But this is a simplification. Not all Hindus believe in the Vedas; for example, the Lingayat people believe in non-vedic Agamas. It can be safely said that Hinduism is a way of life which has led to many civilized forms of religion. Different scholars have given different definitions, but still disputes arise over who is a Hindu. One definition states that a Hindu is one who accepts the authority of the Vedas. When the British arrived, it was hard for them to see who clearly a Hindu was. Many other religions were practicing the same traditions, such as animal sacrifices to Kali. These other groups included Muslims and Sufis, Jains, Buddhists and even a few Parsis. The colonial British government introduced the census as it is today, and for legal purposes set worded definitions and distinctions between populations that had lived interwoven for thousands of years. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Another set of hindus will call themselves hindus but belive in gurus and incarnations who are not accepted by the vedic literture as bonifide, neither from parampara nor have qualities of an incarnation neither the teachings. But again its fine as long as they call themselves hindu. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> I dont think its off track, You have so many incarnations of kalki and sai and others floating about, they use some verses to prove they are god like yada yada hi dharamasya from the gita, and then their philosophy is accepted above even the vedas by the followers, only by lip service are they followers of veda. The will chant mantras not in the vedas, worship a god thats suppose to be the source of all gods thats not mentioned in the vedas and are still accepted as hindu for so-called lip-service veneration of the vedas. (for some this is a nice feature of fluidity of so-called hinduism) My point is its not as simple as your making it out to be to define a hindu, people have been debating whats a hindu for hundreds of years and still in a process of figuring it out. We all have our opinions of what it is.
  17. http://www.answers.com/topic/carvaka There are also others who claim to be hindu but dont believe in god, i believe its some mimamsa/sankya school of thought. Some of these schools believe that when you die there is no reincarnation or karma. Bali hindus are considered hindus even though large portions dont actively belive in re-incarnation but some sort of ancestoral worship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agama_Hindu_Dharma Im sure there is more. You can find a whole load of hindus who may superficially accept the vedas, but actually believe they are myths that we can interpret our own meanings out of. Another set of hindus will call themselves hindus but belive in gurus and incarnations who are not accepted by the vedic literture as bonifide, neither from parampara nor have qualities of an incarnation neither the teachings. But again its fine as long as they call themselves hindu.
  18. I agree it depends on what the person thinks the best way is to get the message of krishna across, ultimately we are above labels as we are spirit souls, but have to use them in everyday life, some labels are nice and are useful to some and some labels seem to have a negative conatations and not useful for a particular purpose at a particular time. The main thing is to get the person back to his natural condition as a servent of krishna. Ultimately we can even pollute legitimate labels in our own minds and the minds of others like 'vaishnava', 'iskcon', 'follower of krishna' if we get attached to them in a secular exclusive way as ultimately we are a humble servent of the lord. In places where iskcon has made too many mistakes it may be better to avoid that label when preaching at least for a while and preach using another tool. Ultimately whatever it takes to get one back to godhead is what should be utilised, anything else is just sentiment and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Neophyte minds will always be attached to labels until they see the bigger picture, which is a natural part of growing up. I guess it gets more complicated as each label has its own set of dharmas prescribed, being a man there is a ceratin dharma in the sastra that one follows, being a householder there is another dharma, being a teacher another being a vaishnava means dedicating everything to the lord, being a hindu unlike being a christian doesnt have any single authority so the comparison to christianity isnt solid. Christians accept christ and at least the new testiment of the bible. Hindu has no reference to any base like this. Hindus can accept the vedas or not, hindus can accept a god or not, to some foriegners can become brahmins to others not. To some hindu's hinduism is a metophorical myth to others its reality, some hindus have a system of philosophy that is atheistic and doesnt accept re-incarnation etc etc, however I agree in some situations this label is useful, but no way does it facilitate any indepth understanding about any philosophy, its a general term describing an intermix of traditions and cultures originating in a certain area. The term is useful sometimes and counterproductive at other times when trying to help a person become god concious. The term is useful for others to create nationalist secular nation which also has its pros and cons, the term is useful for those trying to unite sects and create a somehow super philosophy which tries to capture everything (which in my opinon generally captures a superficial advaitic veiw). Everything can be used nicely to the extent it can be, and discarded when its not useful in the lords plan.
  19. Anger,hate,depression,envy are a warning mechinism set by krishna flagging an excessive attachment to matter. Anger comes about because of expectation of someone or something, attachment to reputation etc. Its due to 'I' conciousness rather than Krishna conciousness. Envy comes about because we want something, hate comes about because we expected something of someone but that dream was shattered by them. Rather than have compasion as conditioned spirit soul we have hate. All these negative emotions are krsna's signs, they give us the opportunity to introspect and find the cause of what we are attached to and then re-align our perspective towards reality (Krishna) rather than our false identity.
  20. Prabhupada used Hindu in different contexts, when talking generally he often said hindu sastra, however when talking on the absolute level, god is neither hindu or muslim etc, his followers are not under any designation except the servents of god. He gives the example that there is no such thing as different dharmas like hindu muslim christian as the utimate dharma is to love god. In another context he would call hinduism a dried up religion as a large section of so called hindus accept the caste system and believe non brahmana born westerners cant become brahamanas, others believe worshiping anything leads to the same goal wheteher god demigod, themselves or cockroach, others invent incarnations in the name of hinduism and a large section of hindus accept this nonsense which degrade so called hinduism further. So one person thinks that accepting all these concepts is hinduism another thinks it following the vedas. So even among hindus what constitutes a hindu isnt clear, let alone when preaching to westeners, therefore prabhupada gave the process of love of god as a simple science (which it is) not fused about petty names of what this process is called and not wanting to mix it with a hodge podge of ideas. Depeneding on who your talking to you identify your selves in a certain way, if someone asks you who are you, to an acedemic you identify your self in a certain way, to a fellow national you may say your are from the same state, to a relative you may describe your relationship. Prabhupada generally spoke on the absolute level and spoke not on bodily designations, but those that want to speak or understand only this level we can identify our selves as men,women,indian,american,hindu,christian etc.
  21. This is also how I understood it to be, if Krsna wants that the devotee know something he will, if he doesnt he wont, not that every sitution like the abuse he has to know of it. Krsna's plan and his devotee are tricky to figure out in our state.
  22. The quote that from narayan mahraja before definately seemed like omnicient. Im also not sure how the verse in bhagvatam that says he can enter the hearts of all means all-knowing, it may mean in the context of things that through the knowledge of bhagvatam he can enter the hearts of all, or through his attractive features enter the heart of all. Anyway need other devotees or/and past acaryas to verify that. Narayana Maharaja Germany: Dec 12, 2001:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> “Nowadays there are so many devotees who were personally following your Prabhupada, and by that they came in contact with this transcendental life. But now they are thinking that he was not sarvajna, not all-knowing or omniscient. What was he? Foolish? Ignorant? You know in His boyhood, that Krishna performed so many pastimes in which he appeared like a totally ignorant boy. But that does not mean He is ignorant or that He is not omniscient. And, if He is omniscient, why should His associates not be so? They must be. (Jadurani devi dasi brings up the point about child abuse in the gurukula. How could it have gone on if Prabhupada was omniscient, or all knowing?) Narayana Maharaja explains about Prabhupada being omniscient and child abuse occurring in ISKCON: “If those in the gurukula are not offensive they will get some good impressions, samskaras, in the heart—by sadhu-sanga. Srila Swami Maharaja knowingly did something like this for the gain of the whole world—the whole universe. He has given krpa, mercy, to all. Prabhupada did not do anything improper. He was sarvajna (all knowing), and he wanted to do good for all. It was not the fault of Prabhupada; it was fault of their bad karma of past births and also this birth. We should realize this. Although some are not realizing this, still he will help them. If those who attended gurukulas, who performed bad activities in past lives, had not come in contact with Srila Swami Maharaja—and instead of going to gurukula they had gone to any other school—the same karmic reaction would have come to them because of their past impressions. In fact, much, much worse things would have happened to them, and they would not have had the good opportunity to associate with a pure devotee—to receive prasada from his hand, to receive so much mercy from him, and to have the chance to take up devotional activities later on.” A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Letter to Rupanuga Dasa, 3 July 1968:<o:p></o:p> “Yes, those twelve symptoms of the spiritual soul are correct, except for “all-knowing.” All-knowing it cannot be, but full of knowledge.” <o:p></o:p> A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Mayapur morning walk, April 8, 1975: Jayadvaita: Because we see… For instance, sometimes the acarya may seem to forget something or not to know something, so from our point of view, if someone has forgotten, that is… <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: No, no, no. Then… <o:p></o:p> Jayadvaita: …an imperfection. <o:p></o:p> Prabhupada: That is not the… Then you do not understand. Acarya is not God, omniscient. He is servant of God. His business is to preach bhakti cult. That is acarya.
  23. If your conciosness is on Krishna then your under the control of Krsna and these things dont have to be done. A vaishnava has no material duties nor social duties (Do the degree we have sarva dharma parityaja). As it says in the Gaurada purana Yamraj is the King of every entity except the Vaishnavas he has no jurisdiction over them. As long as we are sincere Krishna takes care of us.
  24. While in slumber they may remain in the subtle body for a while. The body is burned to get rid of attachments then for 12-15 days there are vedic rituals performed and recitation of scriptures as the subtle body hangs around on the last day the final ritual is when the spirit is given some things on its journey and then sent on its way. I know of numerous stories in my family where the body hasnt been burned properly or the rituals not performed properly and the subtle body hasnt been able to leave until this is rectified.
  25. http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-06/editorials447.htm The Crippling, Insuperable Sahajiyaism of an Infant Class Vaishnava <CENTER></CENTER>BY: BHAKTI SUDHIR GOSWAMI <CENTER></CENTER> June 28, INDIA (SUN) — An Open Letter to the disciples, grand-disciples, appreciators and aspiring followers of His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaja. In response to a letter regarding the travesty of misrepresentation of Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami and requests that I clarify the position of Srila Guru Maharaja and His Divine Grace Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaja for their bonafide followers especially concerning studying, translating and publishing confidential literature such as Ujjval Nilamani, Gita Govinda etc. This gentleman and his followers isolate quotes from context making mountains out of molehills to justify deviating from the line of Srila Saraswati Thakur but all things considered, the most telling counter-argument is that the person whom Srila Saraswati Thakur proclaimed "represents me fully" Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami did not even read such literature himself. Srila Guru Maharaja reveals, "...we have not gone through the higher teachings of Rupa Goswami — this Ujjval Nilamani and others…." "Srila Guru Maharaja has seen the result in Srila Saraswati Thakur's senior disciples and their followers — how they fell down — therefore he was even stricter, ‘you may be qualified but still you cannot do that.' That was Srila Guru Maharaja's opinion." — Srila Govinda Maharaja In the time of Srila Saraswati Thakur there was one Ramdas Babaji whom the people of Braja Mandal considered to be a siddha-mahatma. He chanted three lakhs of Krishna-nama daily (192 rounds) incessantly engaged in hearing and explaining Goswami literature, strictly observed all of the aspects of Vaishnava sadachar (behavior and practice) and was known to be of impeccable character. When Srila Saraswati Thakur concluded the Braja Mandal Parikrama he dashed his palm against his forehead lamenting, 'I have just toured the whole of Vrindavan and I am so unfortunate I could not find a single Vaishnava!' His followers were perplexed, 'What about Ramdas Babaji?' His response was even more shocking, 'He may be considered as a beginner with admission in the infant class.' Who is considered unanimously to be a siddha [to have achieved perfection] … Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur told he has got admission into the primary class ( kanistha-adhikari ) — and not only at that time but later in Patrika, in writing he told that — in Gaudiya Patrika. And we are trained accordingly and consciously — not blind faith. He explained to us what is what. And we try to follow his direction. And we have also come to such conclusion. — Srila Sridhar Maharaja</SPAN> If someone chanting three lakhs, absorbed in Goswami literature, strictly observing Vaishnava sadachar and of impeccable character is in the infant class, then what are we? Spiritual embryos — at best. How shall we determine who is a substantial Vaishnava and who is a charlatan? Srila Guru Maharaja says, "One who has got recognition from a Vaishnava is a Vaishnava." Srila Guru Maharaja got such recognition from Srila Saraswati Thakur and Srila Swami Maharaja Prabhupada and other senior Godbrothers. Whom you refer is not only lacking certification but is a great offender to the lotus feet of Srila Guru Maharaja (Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami). Additionally, he is adulterating the worldwide Krishna consciousness movement with sahajiyaism under the guise of 'Gaudiya Math.' Without authority, he is translating, commenting upon, and distributing confidential literature forbidden by Srila Saraswati Thakur. In deference to his spiritual connections formal respect has been shown but for the edification of the aspiring devotional community a spade must be called a spade and sahajiya must be identified as sahajiya. And this is not only sahajiyaism but it is textbook sahajiyaism. According to Srila Guru Maharaja "one who thinks that A is B or B is A commits the worse kind of error." It is a perverted reflection of the highest thing and symptomatic of the worst type of ignorance. It is ontologically upside down lacking even trace amounts of spiritual substance. To imitate lower things would be preferable. It is Srila Guru Maharaja's opinion that imitationists are more dangerous than oppositionists. Even the fallen are in a better position, "Who is better off, a poor man or a thief? A poor man or one who has false wealth (counterfeit currency)?" What is sahajiya? In a word: imitation. And sahajiyas are those whom counterfeit spiritual substance. They are busy with the reflection, not the substantial thing. They formally accept everything but want easy entrance into the higher plane. In a short time they want to climb the peak of the mountain; overnight they want to become gopis. The sahajiya guru gives the impression that he has achieved an exalted stage of devotion but according to Srila Guru Maharaja not only are they lacking in substance but, "are born offenders" because they envy actual devotees of Krishna. They covet their devotion but are not prepared to pay the price (self-sacrifice — atma-samarpanam). This gentleman and followers claim that the prohibitions of our guru-varga are "instructions for neophytes," implying they are substantial devotees. Their personified antithesis is Srila Sridhar Maharaja who, though supremely qualified, even in his nineties declared emphatically, "I am a student. The healthy wholesome position is that of a student. Everyone should try to remain a student for eternity. Mahaprabhu Himself does not say that he is perfect; no Goswamis have claimed that they are perfect — what is this!" Wayward followers of Srila Swami Maharaja Prabhupada, frustrated with the utter simplicity and purity of his teachings and lacking a personal dynamic in their own spiritual life are being duped by a quisling impersonating a disciplic descendent of Srila Saraswati Thakur. From the dregs of misconception, they have catapulted into "gopi-dom" via his specious "mañjari-bhava." Incidentally, "mañjari-bhava," the codeword of prakrta-sahajiyas, is found nowhere in the works of the Goswamins, Narottam, Vishwanath or Bhaktivinode — it is only in sahajiya writings. [Rupa Goswami uses the term bhavollasa-rati — once.] It is a voyeuristic projection into madhura-rasa, a misconception pregnant with implications. Neophyte devotees are impressed by an ostentatious display of the details of madhura rasa and its jargon; however, it is beyond their capacity to assess any actual spiritual substance. While a counterfeiter must be familiar with the superficial details of the substance he imitates, no matter how much his replica may look like the real thing, and dupe the unsuspecting, it has no backing from the treasury and is therefore not only worthless but also illegal. Possession and distribution are punishable crimes. Srila Guru Maharaja's example is apposite: billboards may hype "rasik" but if a qualified auditor examines their books he will discover they are bankrupt. Numerous transgressions and examples of skewed siddhanta corroborate this point. To suggest that Srila Saraswati Thakur's sacred credo, pujala raga patha (always keep the path of raga-marga above as worshipful) constitutes mere "instruction for neophytes" is egregious ignorance. It is insulting to Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakur and the rupanuga guru-varga. Additionally, it betrays a fundamental misconception with regard to the proper method of approaching even the outskirts of the Supreme Reality, what to speak of its interior. Sahajiyas say, "Brahma Samhita so much supports Mahaprabhu's position that we suspect that it is written by him." Sahajiyas say, "Prema-vivarta so much supports Bhaktivinode Thakur's position that we suspect that it is written by him." These unwitting sahajiya-wannabes opine, "pujala raga patha gaurava bhange so much supports Sridhar Maharaja's position that we suspect that it is written by him." To be perfectly honest Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur also held some suspicion about Srila Sridhar Maharaja's conceptions. When he read his Bhaktivinode Viraha Dasakam and the sloka that weighs, assesses, and quantifies the ontological positions of Mahaprabhu, Swarupa Damodar, Rupa and Sanatan, Raghunath Das, Krishna Das Kaviraja Goswami, Jiva Goswami, Baladeva Vidyabhushan Prabhu, Brahma, Shiva, Sukadeva, Uddhava and identifies Bhaktivinode Thakur's gift to the world (radha-daysam), so perfect was his representation that authorship came into question: "He has not written this, Bhaktivinode Thakur has written this through him!" And it is Srila Sridhar Maharaja who underscores the deep significance of this as the tenor of Srila Saraswati Thakur's life and teachings: pujala raga patha gaurava bhange mattala sadhu jana visaya range "The path of Raga Marga shall always remain high above as worshipful and we shall devote our full energy in this plane in service to Their Divine Domain and the servitors therein." According to Srila Guru Maharaja this is the motto of Srila Saraswati Thakur (composed upon the occasion of the inauguration of the Bagh Bazaar flagship Gaudiya Math): "That is his instruction, all through, not only temporarily, but throughout. Don't be a disbeliever, very eager to see the final result." It perfectly echoes the sentiments expressed by Srila Raghunath Das Goswami, the prayojana tattva acharya (the one who identifies our ultimate aspiration or service target — radha dasyam): sakhyaya te mama namo'stu namo'stu nityam dasyaya te mama raso'stu raso'stu satyam We eternally worship intimacy while our focus is upon service. Intimate dealings will come out of a genuine service necessity, not wishful thinking. Stick to lower duty; promotion is inevitable. Srila Sridhar Maharaja warns, "Whenever we shall try to hear about the madhura rasa service, we shall always keep in our mind this sloka of Das Goswami; this mantram will protect us." This is the consistent position of Srila Saraswati Thakur and his bona fide followers. Therefore Srila Saraswati Thakur concluded, "He will not sell my things in a black market very cheaply." Srila Guru Maharaja's expounds this position perfectly in the transcriptions that follow this letter: "" and "" wherein he reveals,</SPAN> Even we are not allowed, by our master, to read the books where madhura-rasa details are described: Govinda-lilamrtam , Stava-Mala , Vilapa-kusumañjali , Ujjvala-nilamani , he did not allow to study and discuss</SPAN></SPAN>. Rather he would have been very much disturbed if he heard that someone is interfering with the higher lila in those books. He did not like it. — Srila Sridhar Maharaja The self-deluded attempt to refute this countering, "Sridhar Maharaja doesn't mean what he is saying." This reminds me of Srila Guru Maharaja observing, "Kaviraja Goswami has dealt with madhura-rasa in Chaitanya Charitamrta in such a way that it cannot be misunderstood — and still it is misunderstood." Any simple hearted, aspiring servitor, with modest aspirations (natural growth — not artificial ripening — deserve, then desire) will hear Srila Guru Maharaja and clearly understand what is what. If someone chooses, for whatever reason, to exempt themself, ignoring the cautions of Sukadeva Goswami, Raghunath Das Goswami, Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and the modern day rupanuga-acharya Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami, they are committing spiritual suicide. Most telling of all is that Srila Sridhar Maharaja himself did not even read such literature:</SPAN> W e have not gone through the higher teachings of Rupa Goswami — this Ujjval Nilamani and others </SPAN></SPAN> — we are told that from far away whatever we see, how he has dealt with details of madhura-rasa — subtle stages of different characteristics — wonderful... — Srila Sridhar Maharaja We could just stop here and rest our case. But this gentleman and his followers are not only deluding themselves but misguiding others into circumventing Srila Swami Maharaja Prabhupada, Srila Guru Maharaja and Srila Saraswati Thakur, so we offer a few additional observations. Srila Guru Maharaja suggests an explanation as to how such situations arise:</SPAN> Sometimes it may happen that the sisya , the disciple, came with some good will and now he has got deviation: he may see that ‘it is too much for me, I can't accept him [the restrictions of the guru]. So I must go to a guru of a more mild temperament or a less qualified guru who may support my ill dealings also to such an extent.' Sometimes separation is effected from the fault of the disciple. He can't stand, so he goes back and takes a sahajiya guru just as those misguided, against the will of Swami Maharaja, went and got very cheap, less price, very cheap bargain and they swallowed that pill.</SPAN> Especially the aspiring Western devotional section is easily duped by pretense. Saraswati Thakur explains why [Prakrta Rasa Shatadushani: 100 Flaws of Sahajiyaism]: vaidha-bhakta-jane kabhu raganuga jane na komala-sraddhake kabhu rasika to' jane na [61] It is beyond the capacity of neophyte practitioners to recognize an actual raga-bhakta. Those who are spiritually weak, whose faith is not yet firm and deeply rooted cannot know who or what is a rasik vaishnava. To extol the virtues of hearing from a "rasik Vaishnava" to a group of neophyte devotees amounts to nothing more than self-promotion and fraud. anartha na gele sisye jata-rati bole na anartha-visistha sisye rasa-tattva bole na [59] Without the removal of anarthas, attachment (rati) cannot blossom in the disciple. So a disciple infested with anartha is never instructed in rasa-tattva. asakta komala-sraddhe rasa-katha bole na anadhikarire rase adhikara deya na [60] Rasa-katha is not for those who are spiritually weak or whose faith is not firm and deeply rooted. The unqualified have no rasa-adhikara (capacity to taste rasa). Furthermore it is incongruent with a genuine rupanuga guru to give rasa-siksa to the unqualified: adhikara avicara rupanuga kore na anartha-anvita dase rasa-siksa deya na [55] True followers of Rupa Goswami never ignore the disciple's qualification or lack of qualification (adhikara). A disciple infested with anarthas should never be given rasa-siksha. To violate this principle is spiritually illegal. The inversion being, a self-styled "rasik-guru" who ignores the lack of qualifications of his disciples and gives them rasa-siksha is unqualified himself and has deviated from the line of Rupa Goswami. According to Srila Saraswati Thakur this sort of imitation comes from attraction for pratishtha (i.e. coveting the name and fame associated with being a rasik). It has become glaringly apparent that not only is the intended audience ineligible but the translator/commentator himself is disqualified. Such a transaction is the mutual appreciation of cheater and cheated, the blind leading the blind (folie à deux). His publications merely represent the latest acquisition of the Sahajiya Library in the Museum of MisConception. When asked when is it appropriate to think of guru and disciple in terms of swarupa and meditate upon the songs and slokas of the siddha plane, Srila Guru Maharaja answered that the minimal requirement is the stage of ). This is an exalted level of spiritual attainment, the stage that immediately precedes Krishna-prema. If one has not achieved bhava-bhakti there is not even the remote possibility that they are a rasik. jata-bhava na hoile rasika to' haya na jada-bhava na chadile rasika to' haya na [23] Without the awakening of bhava there is no possibility that one is a "rasik Vaishnava." If mundane emotions have not been completely given up one cannot be an actual "rasik." In addition to twenty-four hours absorption in Krishna consciousness (even during sleep) one of the symptoms of bhava-bhakti is mana sunyata (the absence jealousy, envy) it is the antithesis of the ego that disallows one from appreciating the higher Vaishnava while compelling one to repeatedly offend him. Goswami and his bonafide followers. Sometimes Srila Guru Maharaja would say that before he gives an answer, in addition to scanning the entire Vedas, Puranas etc., Goswami literature, advice of the Mahajanas, the teachings of the rupanuga guru-varga including, most prominently, Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Saraswati Thakur, "I take my stand on spiritual common sense." To prematurely embrace the siddha plane (as in siddha-pranali) means in an extreme state of denial one must ignore ones own blatant disqualifications. While the "scent of a beast lingers" can we seriously entertain the prospect that we are qualified to hear of God's sex life? Are we ready to scrutinize the names, forms, qualities and erotic pastimes of Krishna's harem (as in the Ujjval Nilamani)? The scripture says that you won't get raga-bhakti performing vaidhi-bhakti perfectly for ten million (10,000,000) lifetimes (janma koti sukrtair na labhyate). To what Brahma, Shiva, Suka, Uddhava, Lakshmi aspire we shall achieve overnight because we have been absentmindedly mumbling some semblance of Krishna-nama for 20-30 years? We will vault the Viroja river, bypass Vaikuntha, Ayodhya, Dwaraka and Mathura, hop, skip and jump upon the heads of Brahma, Shiva and Uddhava, rush in and crash the gate to Krishna's harem? A suicidal delusion. The angelic fear to traverse that divine soil knowing that it is all guru — superior stuff to one's own existence (vaikunthera prthivy adi sakala cinmaya). Krishna-lila is the exclusive domain of the highest section of liberated souls. Even if this gentleman and his followers were "liberated souls" what are the odds that they are Krishna-bhaktas, qualified to enter Vrindavan and Krishna-lila? According to the scriptures — ten million to one (koti mukta madhye ‘durlabha' eka krsna-bhakta — 10,000,000 to 1). Are the reading, translation, publication and distribution of the most confidential literature in existence really, truly out of a genuine service necessity or is it something else?</SPAN> After we cross the threshold we shall navigate the cosmos with the nature and intensity of our sacrifice, the degree of our dedication — we will be allowed to enter into the internal nectarine movement. Eliminating this idea we become sahajiya. </SPAN>Those who say that they have got raga bhakti — we hate them — Gaudiya Math has come only to destroy them. — Srila Sridhar Maharaja Sometimes people ask incredulously, "Then why were these books written?" For whom are books on gynecology written? Gynecologists. Who are the books on rasa tattva meant for? Rasiks. Who are rasiks? Those who have achieved minimally bhava-bhakti: bhava-ankura — the blossoming of Krishna-prema (bhakti-lata bija—seed; bhava—blossom; prema—fruit). When someone suggested nishta as a qualification Srila Guru Maharaja's answer was, "No, no — nistha nothing!Ruci is somewhat safe…" And what is ruci: "Proper ruci is to be traced after nistha: 24 hours a day — incessant Krishna consciousness." "One can even fall from swarupa-siddhi... Only vastu siddhi [posted in lila] is guaranteed." And according to Srila Guru Maharaja a genuine Vaishnava will never feel that he has achieved anartha nivrtti (which precedes nistha, ruci, asakti, bhava, prema). What then shall we conclude? Krishna-prema is not a thing of this world (akaitava krsna-prema, yena jambunada-hema, sei prema nrloke na haya). I once posed a similar question to Srila Guru Maharaja, "If Srila Saraswati Thakur forbade his followers from reading Ujjvala Nilamani, Gita Govinda etc. and you and Srila Swami Maharaja are among his exalted followers, then who can read these books?" Guru Maharaja laughed, chiding,</SPAN> You should not adopt an atheistic conclusion: ‘This life is all in all, if I don't get it now it will vanish forever.' When appropriate for the student these books will be given. Meanwhile, stick to the rulings of your class ( sve sve' dhikare ya nistha sa gunah parikirtitah ).</SPAN> Much is made of the following remarks of Srila Saraswati Thakur. Having concluded his Braja Mandal Parikrama Srila Saraswati Thakur revealed, "Do not think that asta-kaliya-lila smaranam is the property of the sahajiyas. Actually it is our affair. We must retrieve it from the hands of the sahajiyas." This gentleman and his followers believe Srila Saraswati Thakur's life's work should be adjusted to conform to this statement rather than vice-versa. "Srila Saraswati Thakur shed a hundred gallons of blood showing what madhura rasa is not"; the Prakrta Rasa Shatadushani — 100 Flaws of Sahajiyaism — is comprised of one hundred "No!"s but they purport this single remark cancels a lifetime of emphasis to the contrary.</SPAN> All these days we have not spoken about lila. But this is our most confidential asset… I know that you are not ready to hear it, but we should know that such a transcendental ideal exists within the realm of devotion. Beyond the realm of anartha-nivrtti is artha-pravrtti , pure conjugal service to Radha and Krishna. This is transcendental reality. If we do not know of this transcendental realm, all of our efforts may end in nirvisesa-vada (impersonalism)… Those who have chanted harinama for fifteen or twenty years should know such things. The beginners need not hear these topics or they will misunderstand. These topics are for certain audiences, not for all… One should not reveal one's bhajana to others.' If we disregard this instruction of our previous acharyas , there may be a permanent fall from the realm of devotional service. — Srila Saraswati Thakur</SPAN> vt is one thing to "know that such a transcendental ideal exists" quite another to dive into the details. Blinded by ulterior motive, under the influence of the false logic of accepting half a hen, they fail to realize that the cautions he attached proved prophetic; this is precisely what happened. In his last days, a few months before his departure from this world, he would hear the songs of asta-kaliya-lila of Bhaktivinode Thakur, Narottam Thakur etc. sung by Srila Bhakti Vichar Jajavar Maharaja. But some of Srila Saraswati Thakur's senior disciples (not neophytes) mistook these remarks as license to culture the details of madhura rasa in Ujjval Nilamani, Gita Govinda etc. One by one they succumbed to sahajiyaism, ultimately losing their faith in Srila Saraswati Thakur, even challenging his legitimacy and disconnecting from him. Over this very issue, Srila Saraswati Thakur's own mission Sri Gaudiya Math became polluted with sahajiyaism. It culminated in the successor acharya engaging in sexual relations with various "advanced lady disciples" in the name of gopi bhajan.</SPAN> We should not indulge in these topics carelessly, that will harm our realization in the future; because the mundane characteristic is possible to be carried there; the mundane experience may try to take us down, so with much caution... What we conceive, it is not in that plane, it is a higher and higher plane, so we are not getting the real picture of things here; it is an adulterated picture; it is alloyed picture, an alloyed conception of the original thing, not an unalloyed conception of the thing; with this caution we are to deal with them… to cultivate about sambhoga (erotic pastimes) is very, very dangerous. — Srila Sridhar Maharaja</SPAN> Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Dev-Goswami Maharaja concurs:</SPAN> Srila Saraswati Thakur was not only Acharya for cleansing the sampradaya but for establishing something also: Establishing the principle [of madhura rasa ] and he has shown that in his character [ asta-kaliya-lila smaranam ]. But after he has shown it, it became polluted and Srila Guru Maharaja knows it very well. Therefore Srila Guru Maharaja has not shown it. Rather, who is showing, Srila Guru Maharaja hates him.</SPAN> Srila Guru Maharaja has seen the result in Srila Saraswati Thakur's senior disciples and their followers — how they fell down — therefore Srila Guru Maharaja was even stricter: ‘you may be qualified but still you cannot do that.' That was Srila Guru Maharaja's opinion.</SPAN> In the last time of his life Srila Saraswati Thakur shown some practice [ asta-kaliya-lila lila smaranam ] he can do and he is able to do because he is qualified to do that. He has shown there the target of our life (Radhika Madhavasam). That is also necessary to know because we are all devotees of Krishna. If we are blind, if we remain in the dark about Krishna-lila that also is not healthy, so for us some us some dig-darshan — direction, indication — was shown by Srila Saraswati Thakur's final pastimes.</SPAN> But if we want to tell something about the final days of Srila Guru Maharaja then we shall have to say that in his last time he was incessantly crying out for the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu, "Dayal Nitai, Dayal Nitai, Dayal Nitai!" Nitai koruna habe braje Radha Krishna pabe — ‘If Nityananda Prabhu is merciful then it may be possible [to enter Vrindavan].' So you take shelter to the lotus feet of Nityananda — that is safety for your life. Not to imitate anything. But Nityananda Prabhu is so merciful he will give shelter to you and you will get shelter in Krishna-lila under the guidance of Rupa Goswami, Sanatan Goswami… — Srila Govinda Maharaja</SPAN> Srila Guru Maharaja is "even stricter" than Srila Saraswati Thakur:</SPAN> Our Guru Maharaja [ Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur ] also in Kartik Mas</SPAN></SPAN> [the month of Damodar, the month of Radharani] in Radha Kunda and Vrindavan, he chanted that asta-kaliya-lila [eight-fold daily pastimes of Radha Krishna] composed by Bhaktivinode Thakur, but I do not do that . I very strictly confine to the lower level, than even Guru Maharaja gave</SPAN> … [what he allowed is] a little higher. I am very strict about that [not allowing what he allowed]. Therefore he is the Guardian of Devotion. Incidentally, Srila Keshava Maharaja must be turning over in his samadhi for there are two things he despised: mayavada and sahjiyaism. It is especially humiliating and painful when betrayal comes from someone within your own ranks (sampradaya, family) invoking one's name as the sanctioning agent. Not unlike this gentleman, Srila Keshava Maharaja's own brother became the further embarrassment of Sri Gaudiya Math as the next acharya continuing the infestation of prakrta sahajiyaism into Sri Gaudiya Math. Reading and studying Ujjval Nilamani, Gita Govinda etc. he concluded he had achieved his "mañjari-swarupa" and would dance in "gopi-bhava" before the Deities of Gaura-Gadadhar. Srila Keshava Maharaja vented his outrage, "What is this nonsense? This is not a whorehouse!" It is no wonder Krishna's guru-rupa Gauranga Mahaprabhu withdrew His sanction from the Gaudiya Math to distribute His consciousness around the world. Many wonder, "What happened to Gaudiya Math? Everything was going so well and then it all went to hell. How did they become so deviated?" Now we know. The aftereffects of such deviation are documented in Gita as well as the Bhagawatam — nothing less than the destruction of the sampradaya (parampara nasta; kalena nasta pralaye). What Srila Saraswati Thakur spoke was the truth no doubt but it became mutilated by the temperament and ulterior motives of the receivers (paramparyena, prakrta vaicitryad). It would take a pure and simple hearted Vaishnava exclusively dedicated to the order of his guru (Srila Saraswati Thakur) sacrificing himself to the extremes of self-forgetfulness and empowered by Nityananda Prabhu, namely His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, to reestablish the flow of Divine mercy and inundate the world with Krishna consciousness. And in the aftermath of his departure Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami revealed the full wealth of the Rupanuga Sampradaya in the line of Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. Have they forgotten Mahaprabhu's determination, "There is only one Ramananda." He told Pradyumna Misra, "I don't know any Krishna-katha; it will be best for you to hear from Ramananda." Incidentally, Ramananda is the only one mentioned by name in Chaitanya Charitamrta as being a rasik; this indicates a particular uncompromising standard. According to Mahaprabhu, "Accept no substitute. There is only one Ramananda and he instructed me. Ramananda can handle the most tempting things for the service of Krishna. What to speak of seeing a woman even if I hear the name of a woman I feel my body transform. So who is that person who can remain unaffected by the sight of a beautiful woman? But Ramananda has no mundane form he possesses an aprakrta deha (supra-mundane, spiritual body). Therefore, you will not find even trace amounts of the tendency to exploit within him. Only Ramananda possesses that adhikara (qualification).</SPAN> Unless of course one wishes to include his proxy Srila Sridhar Maharaja whom Srila Saraswati Thakur renamed, "Ramananda Das" as overt recognition of Srila Guru Maharaja's unique capacity to represent Ramananda Raya (after all his ontological method is gleaned from Ramananda Samvada). And that vaibhava of Ramananda Raya, and perfect representative of Srila Saraswati Thakur, forbids premature hearing of rasa-katha. When Nimai Pandit announced his desire to manifest devi-bhava, in a dramatic performance at the house of Candrashekhar, he stated the prerequisite to be an audience member was complete sense control (jitendriya, dhira); the same qualification for hearing the rasa-katha of Radha Krishna's erotic pastimes. Srivas Thakur and Advaita Acharya (Narada and MahaVishnu) were crestfallen, considering themselves unfit, lamenting,</SPAN> We won't be able to attend. Nimai Pandit laughed in disbelief, 'If the two of you cannot attend then who can?' He conceded, 'All right then, I'll give you both the benediction that your senses will be completely under control for the duration of the performance and you will not be attacked by illusion by seeing me dance.' — Chaitanya Bhagwat, Madhya 18 </SPAN> The hallmark of devotion is considering oneself unfit, unqualified. When moved with deep devotion Srila Saraswati Thakur meticulously suppressed any emotion. Yet sometimes he would cry uncontrollably when venting his service aspiration (ashabharair amrta sindhu-mayaih kathañcit). Those who are immediately adjacent to madhura rasa (i.e. Uddhava et al.) having assessed its profundity, desire the least position in that soil (asam aho carana-renu-jusam aham syam vrndavane kim api gulma-latausadhinam). Mahaprabhu himself aspires for an atomic presence in that plane (sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya) and Prabhodananda Saraswati considers the very direction in which Srimati Radharani appeared to be close enough and utterly worshipful (tasyah namo 'stu vrsabhanu bhuvodise 'pi). The evidence of their conceptual depth is proportionate to the degree of vented negativity. Devotion is measured by its inverse (depth of hankering, finding oneself in want) not ostentatious displays of achievement. A maturing girl will shyly conceal her developing feminine attributes: "At the rise of genuine prema, jiva hides her own glory and strives for Krsna-bhajan." — Srila Saraswati Thakur. One of our sannyasis used to visit this gentleman at Keshavaji Gaudiya Math in Mathura and Devananda Gaudiya Math in Nabadwip Dham. I wanted to know from Srila Guru Maharaja if he approved because until my asking his silence gave me pause. He spoke in no uncertain terms, that this renegade disciple/sannyasi of Srila Keshava Maharaja was the perpetrator of offenses to him personally (with full knowledge of whom he was offending). With a pained look upon his lotus face Srila Guru Maharaja shared, "He abused me in a very nasty way. Therefore, I stopped my publication [Gaudiya Darshan] and withdrew all association." These words are still ringing in my ears. The naive counter, "but he has so much appreciation for Srila Guru Maharaja." With regard to his mission's annual charade celebrating Srila Guru Maharaja's Vyas Puja etc. I invoke the Gaura Kishore Das Babaji Maharaja clause: "Get some cow dung and cleanse the place!" To paraphrase an axiom, motive is nine-tenths of devotion — if not more. About another so-called guru, masquerading as a bosom friend, feigning "much respect and appreciation for Srila Sridhar Maharaja" and equally applicable, Srila Guru Maharaja looked askance, "To hear from him about me is to commit suicide." And whom did this fellow offend? The person whom Srila Saraswati Thakur certified as having received what he came to give: the one who fully represents him, the one who carries the conception of Bhaktivinode Thakur and Rupa Goswami (rupanuga-dhara). According to Srila Guru Maharaja his offense "reached the holy lotus feet of Sri Rupa." Additionally, Srila Saraswati Thakur envisioned Bhaktivinode Thakur as Srimati Radharani. To speak against Radharani's proxy under the trumped up pretense of "defending one's guru" is perverse madness (aparadha — to go against Sri Radha). Mahaprabhu, the personification of gopi-bhava, could not tolerate rasabhasa and that which contradicts "bhaktisiddhanta" — it made him angry (rasabhasa haya yadi siddhanta-virodha, sahite na pare prabhu, mane haya krodha). In response to their Math's annual rasabhasa ratha yatra running counter to the current of Nabadwip Dham, Srila Guru Maharaja vented gopi bhava: before the festival begins the gopis will be angry to see an empty chariot arrive in Vrindavan [Nabadwip Dham is Gupta-Vrindavan]:</SPAN> Once the sun had risen the gopis noticed a golden chariot in front of Nanda Maharaja's doorway.</SPAN> They enquired, ‘Whom does this belong to?'"</SPAN> Perhaps Akrura has returned. That Akrura who fulfilled Kamsa's desire by taking our lotus-eyed Krishna away from Vrindavan to Mathura.</SPAN> Sridhar Swami and Chakravarti Thakur agree, "The gopis speak this sloka angrily."]</SPAN> Now that our hearts have been ripped from our bodies has he returned to collect our rotting carcasses to offer our flesh in funeral oblations for his master Kamsa!</SPAN> [At this point they are enraged] — Srimad Bhagavatam 10.46.47-49 [ The Gopis response to unknowingly seeing Uddhava's chariot while he is visiting the house of Nanda and Yasoda.]</SPAN> This section of the Bhagwatam lies at the threshold of the Bhramara Gita (Srimati Radharani's Ecstatic Interior). Envy of the higher Vaishnava (her delegate) disqualifies one from entering her domain, which is the target of the Bhagwatam (nirmatsarya). It is significant only to one whom possesses genuine feeling, Divine substance within (hrdayena' bhyanujñato yo dharmastha nibodhata). The niggardly attempt to mount a refutation by citing the apocryphal customs of people in Vrindavan as precedent and submitting a stack of references, that amount to basically a google search of the Bhagwatam for occurrences of the word "ratha," is pathetic and betrays a lack of any substantial realization. It is eyewash for the siddhantically impaired. And the offenses are not only of long ago but continue until the present. When asked if he appreciated Srila Guru Maharaja's unrivaled interpretation of Brahma Gayatri, extracting Radha- Dasyam, unable to conceal his jealousy he dismissively "flipped his hand in the air and wrinkled his nose, stating disdainfully, ‘That is already there in many places.'" It is going on five years and he has failed to produce a single reference, what to speak of many. He was a fraud from the moment of his conception. He cannot even vibrate Srila Guru Maharaja's holy name (disallowing the "Dev" in Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaja). Formally he acknowledges that Srila Guru Maharaja knows many things — does he know his own name? He challenges Srila Guru Maharaja's authorship of the slokas at Rupa Goswami's Kadamb Khandi. He became apoplectic when challenged by a simple-hearted girl in Vrindavan who knew what many know: they are part of the original wealth of Srila Guru Maharaja. Srila Sridhar Maharaja solves the siddantic mystery of Kaviraja Goswami's comparing Gadadhar to Rukmini:</SPAN> It is as if Mahaprabhu has taken away the soul leaving the body standing — that is the position of Gadadhar Pandit, quite empty. Following Mahaprabhu her heart has been taken away by Mahaprabhu — in such a way he is following Mahaprabhu. He is not full in himself. Something, the most important thing, his heart has been taken by Mahaprabhu. So automatically he has no other alternative but to follow Mahaprabhu. Wholly given: radha bhava dyuti suvalitam naumi krsna-swarupam . Radharani when her heart is stolen by Krishna, the carcass is standing — something like that — This is Gadadhara Pandit's position to play. Fully engrossed with the conception of Gauranga — who has taken everything from him (inner existence). So he had no other alternative but to be fully engrossed, captured thoroughly by Gauranga. In this way we find he moved his whole life.</SPAN> Others — some were ordered, some were allowed to go to Vrindavan. Gadadhar wanted to visit Vrindavan along with Gauranga Mahaprabhu, Sri Chaitanyadev himself but he was denied, "No, you can't go."</SPAN> Jagadananda Pandit when he asked, with some hesitation was given permission, go but there you move under the guidance of Sanatan and also some specific practices: do this, do this and don't do that. But Gadadhar Pandit was not allowed to go to Vrindavan. He was the Queen of Vrindavan and now transferred to Nabadwip his position is just the opposite. He could not enter Vrindavan. He prayed and Mahaprabhu did not give any permission. "No you are to live here." And he had to do so. Such a peculiar position: if Radharani lives in Vrindavan without her heart — is it possible? She is the gist of the whole of Vrindavan; everything comes from her. How can she go there without her own self-existence? It is impossible. So she/he did not get any permission. We find this peculiarity there — solely dedicated for Nabadwip lila. — Srila Sridhar Maharaja</SPAN> But he disparages this extraordinary, illuminating, original explanation of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Once again the interior, finer conception is lost upon him. It is telling that he has diminished capacity to comprehend and appreciate Gaura-lila, which is the actual entrance to radha-dasyam in Krishna-lila (yatha yatha gaura-padaravinde... radha padambhoja sudhambhurasi). Incidentally, the first part of Srila Sanatana Goswami Prabhu's Brhad Bhagavatamrta culminates in the understanding that separation is greater in intensity and depth than union but this is known only to genuine devotees of Mahaprabhu:</SPAN> tathapi sambhoga-sukhad api stutah so ko py' anirvacya-tamo mano-ramah promoda-rasih parinamato dhruvam tatra sphuret tad-rasikaika-vedyah The anguish of separation ( viraha bhava ) is praised as greater than the happiness of sambhoga (meeting, union). Separation is so pleasing to the mind ( mano-ramah ) that it cannot be described ( anirvacya-tamah ). It always transforms into an abundance of ecstatic joy ( promoda-rasih ). Only actual rasiks know that separation is higher than union ( rasika vedyah ).</SPAN> It would appear that quite to the contrary, the self-proclaimed "rasik" is anything but. Repeatedly in matters of spiritual taste, although he emulates professionals, he proves himself an amateur. This fellow damns Srila Guru Maharaja with faint praise lauding him as a "good philosopher" (darsanik pandita, tattva-vit etc.) while coaxing an ass-embly of fools to adorn him with the titles 'rasika'… 'rasa-jna' (the knower of rasa), 'rasika-cudamani' (crown jewel of rasikas). Demonstrating the height of arrogance, he shamelessly usurps the position of Mahaprabhu Himself with the most ludicrous title of all, ‘the yuga-acharya.' Has Paundraka reincarnated? Srila Saraswati Thakur couldn't find a single Vaishnava in Vrindavan but this fellow addresses the attendees at a public meeting as "rasiks, bhavuks, etc." It would be laughable if not for the fact that it ridicules Mahaprabhu, Swarupa, Ramananda, Rupa, Sanatan, Raghunath et al. It is Srila Sridhar Maharaja who carries and infuses the sannyas mantram given by Srila Saraswati Thakur with gopi-bhava (complete self-sacrifice). He is the sannyas guru of Srila Keshava Maharaja and the ultimate sannyas guru of those who have received sannyas from him (including Srila Swami Maharaja Prabhupada and his followers). And it is Srila Guru Maharaja's contention that one must decipher the meaning of the following slokas to understand what is what, what the goal is and how to achieve it (sambandha, abhideya, prayojana): vedesu durlabham adurlabham atma-bhaktau — [Brahma Samhita] You won't get this by reading, studying etc. The only means is dedication: self-sacrifice to the extreme and beyond that, total self-forgetfulness merged in Their Divine interest (Radhika Madhavasam). vidantas te santah ksiti-virala-carah katipaye — [Brahma Samhita] And Their Divine realm, Goloka, is rarely known to very few souls in this world. yat presthhair apy alam asulabham kim punar bhakti-bhajam — [Upadesamrta] We are told that the pastimes in Govardhan are superior to the pastimes in Vrindavan; the pastimes in Radha Kunda are superior to Govardhan; the pastimes in the waters of Radha Kunda are superior to the pastimes on the shore. The Divine Waters of Radha Kunda, composed of the most intense concentrated self-sacrifice and self-forgetfulness (Radharani in liquid form<SUP>3</SUP>) are a rare achievement even for the parama-presthha sakhis (inner circle of most intimate gopis) what to speak of others (including, bhakti parama—Narada; premaika-nistha—Uddhava etc.).</SPAN> sup>3</SUP>Radha Kunda is Radharani represented as liquid — to bathe is to transform oneself wholesale — to identify exclusively with the interest of Srimati Radharani [ radha-dasyam ] — Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami [The Guardian of Devotion]</SPAN> In conclusion, one cannot argue with an infectious disease, the only sensible policy is quarantine. Srila Sridhar Maharaja used to say, "They may do. Let them dance with their foolish tendency." Finally, after many years of tolerance to the extreme, this gentleman and his entourage were unceremoniously ousted from the hallowed soil of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math in Nabadwip Dham. What more needs to be said? Those in the line of Srila Guru Maharaja and in good standing with Srila Govinda Maharaja and Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math avoid him and his followers like the plague. Srila Govinda Maharaja and Srila Guru Maharaja would not waste their time with such an upstart. I am an insignificant, fallen jiva but praying for their mercy and the mercy of the Prabhupadas, as well as the special blessings of Srila Jiva Goswami Prabhu, I have responded only to defend their honor.</SPAN> Ratha Yatra Day — 2006 Founding of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math — 1942 n.b. In 1981 I wrote an essay entitled, "Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja." It formed the basis of the Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math publication "The Guardian of Devotion." Every word was read to Srila Guru Maharaja who at times, "nodded in agreement, leaned forward with acute interest, fell back in delightful laughter and alternately became very grave." At the conclusion he clapped his palms and said, "We have heard a very good lecture! He has represented me there fully."</SPAN> Later His Divine Grace suggested one minor correction. He explained that when we must address the wrong doing of someone violating the principles of Srila Saraswati Thakur but who may be formally in his line, it is best not to mention them by name. However, in this case, if this gentleman ( ) is willing to own up to the offenses he committed to the Rupanuga Acharya, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaja — in print, as requested by Srila Guru Maharaja — then I will consider making an exception and place his name in the subtitle of this essay. — Ed.</SPAN> |ˈkripəl| |ˌkrɪpəl| |ˌkrɪp(ə)l| noun • cause a severe and almost insuperable problem for : his infectious prakrta sahajiyaism crippled their natural spiritual development. insuperable |inˈsoōp(ə)rəbəl| |1nˌsup(ə)rəbəl| |ɪnˌs(j)uːp(ə)rəb(ə)l| adjective (of a difficulty or obstacle) impossible to overcome : premature exposure to the erotic pastimes of Radha and Krishna resulted in insuperable spiritual brain damage. ksantir avyartha-kalatvam viraktir mana-sunyata asa-bandhah samutkanthha nama-gane sada rucih asaktis tad-gunakhyane pritis tad-vasati-sthale ity-adayo 'nubhavah syur jata-bhavaìkure jane [bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu — Rupa Goswami] ksantir — Whatever loss may be incurred in any transaction that matters little; he is fully conscious that my whole wealth is here and this external acquisition has not much meaning. avyartha-kalatvam — 24 hours engagement in Krishna consciousness: "Oh, the time is passing uselessly!" Such lamentation sometimes will be pushed in the heart. avyartha-kala no time will pass without my continued association with the desired party. viraktir — Generally talks of the outer world he won't be able to relish at any time. mana-sunyata — If anyone calls bad name or insults that does not matter. asa-bandhah — Eternal hope — that very near I shall have my fulfillment of life Krishna will bless me with his favor; Radharani will bless me; she will attract me; some sort of internal hope. samutkanthha — "Oh for such a long time has passed and I can't feel any real trace!" na prema gandasthi durapi me harau "I can't trace any real faith or a drop of love for Krishna." nama-gane sada rucih — Always busy this and that, so many activities, always he will have some taste for the Name of the Lord. asaktis tad-gunakhyane — When he will begin to describe about the transcendental qualities of Krishna and their group — madly he will go on with that. pritis tad-vasati-sthale — Whatever place is associated with Their memory, he will have some special attraction for that. These are the qualifications and the person who has got that bhava-bhakti is eligible to tackle all those higher things in the transcendental realm. This is the pathayo , the passage money [the fare or price to be paid]. Is Almost Impossible It Is Only A Matter Of Grace By Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaja "We can't see our own soul — that is our position. Engrossed in this gross matter of exploitation not even we can know what is our mind — what stuff it is made of; then what is the judgment faculty within us — buddhi — independent of this world; then the soul; then SuperSoul area. Living in this mundane world dreaming that I have got the God of my dreams… it is a farce!" "Sahajiya are the worst enemy because by imitating not only their own self is going to hell but they are attracting so many towards that." Question: "Which is worse, someone who falls down and becomes disconnected or one who becomes sahajiya?" A poor man is better or a dacoit is better? A man had money but then he lost his money. Another man he is imitating that he has got money by committing a wrong thing. If one is disconnected he may be reconnected soon. Sahajiya means either he had real connection with the truth, disconnected then chose the wrong path or already he is engaged in the wrong path. Who will be in the better position? Not to get the real thing or to get some wrong thing — which will be better? Who is in the possession of the wrong thing Bhagavad Gita mentions that to be in tama-guna, the lowest position — one thinks A to be B. And raja guna that is doubt: whether this is real or that is real — can't ascertain what is true. And one who thinks that, "No, A is B or B is A" — this is the worse kind of error. Misguided, sahajiya means misguided, they are accepting matter as consciousness. vishayi tabu bhalo mayavadi sanga nahi magi kono khalo I have got no money and another says — he has got really no money — some false papers and he says this is money [counterfeit]. He is in more distress: he is engaged in falsehood. And this man is not engaged, no engagement. The engagement he had is gone. But this man has taken one thing for another thing — matter for Divine — that is worse. To become sahajiya is worse — mal-possession — engrossed attention captured by the wrong conception. One man earlier had some conception but for some time he is disconnected, again he may get connection — easily. But this man is pre-possessed, to convince him of the truth is more difficult, because his mind is possessed by something — that prejudice. I heard in my childhood in school, the teacher said that in America there is a school of music and if anyone has got some knowledge of music he will be charged double. And a man who has got no knowledge of music he will only have to pay a single charge. Because he does not know anything he may be taught in an easy way. And one who has got some knowledge of music — double charge. Because what he has gathered in the line of music that should be done away with and then he should be taken in a proper way. So double charge — to make him forget his previous prejudices — so double charge. It is something like that. No bhakti, no devotion, that is one case and in the name of devotion some non-devotional thing has captured — imitation — that is worse. That is committing offenses. Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakur said it is to ridicule the devotees, Mahaprabhu, Rupa, Sanatan. It is to ridicule them. What is prema and what is kama: both are at opposite ends. To accept kama in the name of prema. That is not only heinous, injurious for him but it is to destroy the good name of the Vaishnava in public. Bhaktivinode Thakur says, dekho bhai kame preme veda naya — similar — tabu kama preme nahi haya — Still the lust is not love. Tumite bolite kama: you have accepted lust in place of love and if you give the stamp that this is prema — rakta vansha mayo kama this is concerned with flesh and blood prema cidananda dhama and love is on the highest position of the spiritual existence. So opposites: this Sumeru… South Pole and North Pole — the opposite. One concerned with this body and another SuperSoul. There is a great gulf between: the ocean of dedication. At the top of dedication there is that sort of gopi-prema: wherever there is Krishna, it is there. And this is an imitation to that — treachery in the name. Koti mukta 'durlabha' madhye eka krsna bhakta: these things are to be considered. It is possible in the highest position of the spiritual existence, that conscious area — spiritual. And not any concern with flesh and blood — body — not concerned with the body. This is the most heinous: one will play the part of Krishna and the other lady will play the part of gopi, they will unite and in that fashion they will… this is inconceivable! An ordinary pure type of man, a moral man, will hate this, what to speak of the higher devotees. An ordinary moral man will hate these sort of things. The steps are shown to us: adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango 'tha bhajana-kriya tato 'nartha-nivrttih syat tato nistha rucis tatah athasaktis tato bhavas tatah premabhyudancati sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah What is anartha? Anartha nivrtti, nistha, ruci, asakti, bhava, prema. These are the steps. And from another standpoint vaikunthera prthivy-adi sakala cinmaya mayika bhutera tathi janma nahi haya I repeatedly tell this. From where are we born? We are the offspring of tatastha-sakti, marginal potency. And we are to go through swarupa-sakti,that which is higher than us, that soil is of higher stuff than I meself am made of. All superior: earth, air, water, tree, mud, everything to be found there, they are all superior to me. So I am to enter there. It is not a small thing, easy thing — a childish thing. It is not in the hand of the person who will go there — enter there. All dependent upon the grace of the superior — Vaishnava-krpa — Guru-krpa, Vaishnava-krpa. We are to walk there on our head not by leg. All Guru: the soil is guru, the paraphernalia is guru — means superior. I am made of lower stuff and that is all higher stuff. And it is impossible, so up to mukti, liberation, that may be easy, but then to go further that must be drawn by there grace and not as a matter of right anyone can enter the realm. Only through wholesale, cent percent grace of the child of that soil, that camp, can take me there. Like a bondsman, an agent of that soil must be the guarantor for me. For his risk I can go. He will take the risk of taking me there. So Vaishnava guru, they will take the risk, at their risk they can take me there — the child of the soil. So Vaishnava-krpa, guru-krpa, bhagavat-krpa — without their grace — no right, all grace, that can take me there. From our side no right. I am a child of the marginal potency. Everything, the whole stuff of that plane is made of higher stuff than my own position. It is all "person" and they are superior persons. How a person can walk on the head of the person? Only for their interest. It is inconceivable and impossible. To accept this principle that is most difficult what to speak of entering there. bahunam janmanam ante jñanavan mam prapadyate vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah To have this conception, that is also very rarely found. muktanam api siddhanam narayana-parayanah sudurlabhah prasantatma kotisv api maha-mune It is easy to think but it is hard to attain, to get. No right can be established there: not as a matter of right we can go. So the rights seeker, they will be totally frustrated. All risk no gain. But if somehow we can attain, we can reach there — all gain, no risk. So to become a Vaishnava proper is almost impossible. It is only a matter of grace from that land. They can go. Nothing to do from our side. So complete surrender: full, complete identification with Their interest. Complete self-forgetfulness. And the identification with the interest of that layer, that plane, that also should be substantial, then we can hope to be taken to that soil. vaikunthera prthivyadi sakala cinmaya mayika bhutera tathi janma nahi haya A devotee of Uddhava's caliber says, he prays, that if I can be a creeper here, I shall consider it to be my fortune to the highest extent. In Vrindavan the creeper is such a valuable thing that Uddhava is aspiring after that position. Whom the Lord says, "You are the most favorite devotee of mine, even I love you more than my own self. And that Uddhava is aspiring after that birth that I can be… this is not hyperbolic. If there is any reality in this, then how are we to prepare? He is aspiring to be a shrub or a blade of grass and I shall have to walk over that place. I shall have to walk over the head of Uddhava. So such a higher conception that thing may have — ha, ridicules! Sahajiya. Sahajiya: by imitation here in the flesh and blood, they will achieve that. They are the worst enemy because by imitating not only their own self is going to hell but they are attracting so many towards that. Not conscious of the fact: what is what. So they have got their position in the society like that — hate. The general society has got hate for them, those babajis. We have to put faith in our Guru Maharaja... after wandering through the whole of Braja Mandal he came and striking his forehead he told, "It is my misfortune that I could not find a single Vaishnava in this Braja Mandal." That was his utterance. "It is my misfortune" he pressed his hand to his forehead: "It is my misfortune that I could not find a single Vaishnava in this great holy place of Braja Mandal." That was his statement. And also after he performed Braja Mandal Parikrama who has got recognition as the best of the sahajiya Vaishnavas, the head, he told, "He is a kanistha adhikari. He may be considered as a beginner: admission in the infant class." Who is considered unanimously to be a siddha-babaji. He has attained the highest position among the babajis. But Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur told he has got admission into the primary class — in Patrika [a magazine] in writing he told that — in Gaudiya Patrika. And we are trained accordingly and consciously not blind faith. He explained to us what is what. And we try to follow his direction. And we have also come to such conclusion. Step by step we are to climb to the highest peak. karmibhyah parito hareh priyataya vyaktim yayur jñaninas tebhyo jãna-vimukta-bhakti-paramah premaika-nisthas tatah bhakti-parama—Narada; premaika-nistha—Uddhava. tebhyas tah pasu-pala-pankaja-drsas tabhyo 'pi sa radhika prestha tadvad iyam tadiya-sarasi tam nasrayet kah krte These shall be our guiding mantram. It is all mental concoction — imitation. Imitation, that is orse, that is hateful — filthy. In the name of that higher love if we represent this fleshy connection with the body. And the mind that cultivates that thing, that is the most hateful thing. Avoid, we shall try to avoid with the utmost will and energy. The scientific survey of the land is possible to our soul's eye. That Kaviraja Goswami's: vaikunthera prthivyadi sakla cinmaya and we must understand that. That is true: after brahmaloka [the brahmajyoti] viroja, brahmaloka: what is Viroja? What is brahmaloka? We are in such a material position we cannot understand this lower process also. indriyani parany ahur indriyebhyah param manah manasas tu para buddhir yo buddheh paratas tu sah We can't follow what is our soul. This world, we perceive it through our senses, that is higher, the mind receives through the senses, worldly experience, over mind there is the faculty of judgment within us, over that there is soul proper and then there is the SuperSoul, brahmaloka, Vaikuntha, Viroja, so many things — layers. We cannot find out our own soul — what it is — what is the characteristic of our own soul! We are far away from that conception, in a hopeless position and we say that the highest conception of the Paramatma World is in our fist? Foolish thing! Where is my real identification in the spiritual position then that soul will have to go higher and higher crossing the more valuable planes he is to go up. It is a farce! In conclusion, the sahajiya imitationists should be considered as the enemy. The enemy means like that Quisiling of Norway. As with Vibhishan, his own brother was Ravana, the enemy who sprung up from the womb — his own family. Imitation is bad. Imitation of the ordinary thing is rather better than imitation of the highest thing. That the highest thing is being exploited in such a low manner should be condemned with extreme hatred. We can't see our own soul — that is our position. Engrossed in this gross matter of exploitation not even we can know what is our mind — what stuff it is made of; then what is justice, the judgment faculty within us — buddhi — independent of this world; then the soul; then SuperSoul area. Living in this mundane world dreaming that I have got the God of my dreams — it is a farce! Gaudiya Math and Sahajiyas "Our Prabhupada Did Not Allow These Things." </SPAN>By Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaja Srila Saraswati Thakur did not allow his disciples "to study or discuss [ujjvala Nilamani, Govinda Lilamrta, Gita Govinda] Rather he would have been disturbed if he heard that someone is interfering with the higher lila in those books." — Srila Sridhar Maharaja A transcription of a talk given by Srila Sridhar Maharaja that addresses the ruse that if followers of Srila Saraswati Thakur do not translate and comment upon Ujjvala Nilamani, Gita Govinda, etc. these books will be the exclusive property of prakrta sahajiyas. To the contrary, in doing so, one enters their domain. I am sorry but we are not to enter into the discussion of such higher and subtle position of the lila of Radha Krishna. That is not to be brought into public. And that is the distinction between Gaudiya Math and the Sahajiya section. They are trying to imitate all these things but we have no faith in imitation. It will come in individual case and it will awaken in an irresistible way. When the program of the sadhana stage is finished, it will come automatically, spontaneously. We are believers in that. Not to know the form already and then we will reach there; that is not the policy accepted by Guru Maharaja, Prabhupada [bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur] pujala raga patha gaurava bhange [raga marga, higher rasa, should always be kept over our head as worshipful; we are to serve the higher plane, not to try and enter there or to bring it down to this plane; we should always stay one step lower; if we try to look direct, it will vanish]. Bhaktivinode Thakur also said, stick to the rulings of the class you are fit for, then you will see automatically: yatha yatha gaura-padaravinde vindeta bhaktim krta-punya-rasih tatha tathotsarpati hrdy akasmad radha-padambhoja-sudhambu-rasih Strictly stick to gaura-lila, Mahaprabhu, and you will find automatically within your heart that radha rasa sudha nidhi is flowing. Don't attempt to have it direct: ihan mali sece nitya sravanadi jala; it will come automatically, spontaneously; it should not be approached intellectually. That will create a bad prejudice. Not only that but, such a harmful prejudice, you will have to spend more energy to do away with that layer of misunderstanding. So our Prabhupada did not allow these things. Do your duty in your plane what you deserve will come naturally. That is his instruction, all through, not only temporarily, but throughout, don't be a disbeliever, very eager to see the final result. Don't do like that. You will get maya instead of yogamaya. He knows it fully well. She knows it fully well; when you are to be taken in to confidence, taken in to the confidential area and that cannot be acquired by any thing other than His sweet will or the flow of Her sweet will. Try to have the natural thing, not any thing of imitation or any reflection. Reflection and shadow, these two kinds of misconceptions may appear. Reflection is more dangerous. In harinam also it has been stated like that, reflection and shadow, both are misguiding. And we are to cross that. On our way that sort of temptation may come. We must not think that everything will come within the fist of our intellect: acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet: don't try to take that which is inconceivable under the jurisdiction of reason. When it will be extended to you, you will be astounded to find even a peep into that: na tams tarkena yojayet, don't try to drag that into the zone of reason. It is autocratic in its nature. It may come in one shape to you; it may go in another shape to another. So expansive and so free in its nature; it is infinite. Rather, the infinite is the base of such pastimes. And always prepare yourself — hanker — but don't make it an object of experience. When Mahaprabhu talked about that higher plane, it was as if he was in a trance. As if in a trance he is giving description of his wonderful experience of Krishna lila. Several times we have found that sort of deep lila, the higher lila of Krishna to be related by Mahaprabhu himself. Govardhan lila, jala keli, when he jumped unconsciously into the ocean and for a few hours, carried by the waves of the sea, he was carried to Cakra Tirtha from Chakra Dhara. The jala keli of Krishna [amorous water play] he has described how it is. And also in Cataka Parvat, his lila when his body was transformed like that of a pumpkin (kusmanda) then also he described the lila but the nature of that description is not any book-produced thing. It is such a thing that it cannot be taken into black and white. So we received caution often: don't try to force, it will come automatically. Go on with the program that is given by sastra and guru. If you have such possibility of fortune, then it will come to you. It is not a matter of experience, that it can be given to this one and that one, not to be tackled in such way: yatha yatha gaura-padaravinde; engage your full attention in gaura-lila and that will come automatically within you. From indirect way it will come to you. From the higher domain, when it will be pleased, it will come down for some time to give you experience and you will simply be astonished, "What is this!" And then, when gone, withdrawn, you will have only to lament. A living thing, try to come to get, to hope. We cannot make such higher thing the object of our experience. Even an ordinary man's conduct with his intimate friends is very hard to access, what to speak of the secret lila of the Supreme Lord. How can we dare to enter! Especially publicly, that is not possible. Externally we can try to give some description of the outer possibilities but not the actual thing. We won't venture to enter. Even we are not allowed, by our master, to read the books where they are described: Govinda-lilamrtam, Stava-Mala, Vilapa-kusumañjali, Ujjvala-nilamani, he did not allow to study and discuss. Rather he would have been very much disturbed if he heard that someone is interfering with the higher lila in those books. He did not like it. Dusta phala koribe arjan, Bhaktivinode Thakur is giving warning that we will get only bad results, if we venture to cross the line, a bad effect will come to you — aparadha. From the lower position, anartha, the steps are shown: sraddha, sadhu sangha, sravan, kirtan, then anartha nivrttih, undesirable things will vanish altogether, then nistha, then ruci, then asakti, then bhava bhakti, the sprout of real devotion, then prema bhakti, and sneha, mana, pranaya raga, anuraga, bhava, mahabhava. By such steps are we to approach there. Once Prabhupada remarked, how you will take it I don't know. One gentleman, of course he was senior, he wanted to discuss these things with Prabhupada and he laid much stress to that. And ultimately he left the association of Prabhupada and lived a secluded life. But previously he did much service to the mission. About that gentleman Prabhupada remarked, "Oh! In his true life he is married with Krishna and he has got a child!" Such a remark Prabhupada made. That he was a man, but taking himself as a Gopi, he wanted to culture about the life of the Gopis and the intimate connection of Krishna and the Gopi. He wanted to culture very intensely and Prabhupada remarked in that way: "" Another time the guru maharaja of Prabhupada, Gaura Kishore Babaji, he was in a hut near the Ganges. A disciple of Prabhupada, leaving Prabhupada, imitated Prabhupada's gurudeva, Gaura Kishore Babaji. He constructed a tiny hut nearby and imitated his bhajan, harinam, discussion of the works of Narottam Thakur, all these things and observed strict vairagyam in his physical life. Gaura Kishore Babaji remarked one day, "Only by entering the labor room if a lady makes a show, imitates some pain of giving birth to a child, the child won't come by imitation of the sound. Many important previous events must be there before a child will come. Only imitation won't give birth to a child." That was his remark to that gentleman. Suddha sattva we must come in connection with what is known as suddha sattva [no tinge of the mundane]. First visuddha sattva, nirguna world, suddha sattva means nirguna. Sattva guna and visuddha sattva, come in connection with nirguna, only then may one try to approach the subtle happenings or events there. Not to satisfy curiosity: "fools rush in where angels fear to tread." So with this spirit we must approach the whole thing. At the same time we may not be, by God's grace, a disbeliever: "Give me, I shall judge the whole thing in detail, then I shall accept what you say." There are many things below, the charm and reasonableness of which is enough to convince a person to come this side. And the higher things should be left high above our head. So very cautiously we are to handle all this lila, especially madhura-lila. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. The other day I was thinking, when I joined the mission, after about a year, Prabhupada arranged for full one month Kartika mas to preach in Vrindavan. He asked his disciple Bharati Maharaja, to explain the seventh canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, the story of Prahlada, not of Krishna, Radha Krishna, Yashoda, or anything of Vrindavan. Preach the suddha bhakti of Prahlada first. People are rife with sahajiyaism, just try to make them understand, try to enter into the domain of bhakti, what to speak of Krishna lila, that is far, far above. So in Vrindavan the people rather wondered, "What is this? In Vrindavan they are explaining Bhagwat leaving tenth canto, only seventh canto, Prahlad lila, the lower portion of bhakti!" That was wonderful, strange. Again I found, later on, when Prabhupada himself gave lecture between Radha-kunda and Syama-kunda. There is a boundary line where Prabhupada used to explain, for a few days Upadesamrta of Rupa Goswami. That was read by him and explained. Not about Radharani, not about Krishna, that Upadesamrta, the basis, his attention was always towards the basis; the fruit will come of itself. Pour water into the root! Poor water into the root — fruit will come of itself. He himself explained sitting in the middle of both Radha-kunda and Syama-kunda, and he explained not Bhagavatam but Upadesamrtam. Upadesamrtayou know, the substance of Mahaprabhu in the language of Rupa Goswami. What is that? vaco vegam manasah krodha-vegam jihva-vegam udaropastha-vegam; all these things; krsneti yasya giri tam manasadriyeta diksasti cet pranatibhis ca bhajantam isam, susrusaya all these, and last: krsnasyoccaih pranaya-vasatih preyasibhyo 'pi radha kundam casya munibhir abhitas tadrg eva vyadhayi yat presthair apy alam asulabham kim punar bhakti-bhajam tat premedam sakrd api sarah snatur aviskaroti This is the last sloka in Upadesamrta and that was explained by Prabhupada, not even anything of Govinda-lilamrta or Visvanath Cakravarti Thakur's Sri Krsna-bhavanamrta; these things were left. So our training is in that line. Pujala raga patha gaurava bhange: it is always on our head, the prospect, our life's future, life after life it cannot be finished, we shall rather foster the hope, the pure hope, that maybe we will be taken in one day, in that camp — with this idea. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Gaura Haribol, Nitai Chaitanya… Audience: Sometimes in Caitanya-caritamrta Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami is making reference to, Govinda-lilamrta, Ujjvala-nilamani, and other confidential, selected works. How are we to take that? Three chapters, generally, we were not allowed to enter into of Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila Chapter 4, Ramananda Samvada, Madhya-lila Chapter 8, to a certain extent, where the lila portion of Radha Govinda is mentioned and Antya-lila Chapter 18, jala-keli; we had no entrance into that lila. Of course when parayan is going on, we may read, we go on reading, for making parayan, but not to enter into the details of discussion about that thing. Audience: What do you mean by parayan? Parayan means from the beginning, to chant the whole book, finish the whole book; that is parayana. We went on reading without giving any particular attention to the lila of the highest order of Radha Krishna; that was barred. Don't try to come into details there. That will come automatically at the right time. Don't make it a public discussion. Don't take it into the public eye. So much so that once in Vrindavan, a childhood friend of Prabhupada, an attorney, came to see him, so Prabhupada wanted to give a return visit to his boyhood friend. He was told that he is upstairs and he went there and saw that Prana Gopal Goswami is explaining Bhagavatam, rasa-lila adhyay. Prabhupada just bowed down his head and left immediately. Then his friend came, leaving that rasa-lila adhyay there going on, the explanation, the friend also came down, "The rasa-lila explanation is going on and you did not take your seat? You just bowed down your head. What is the matter?" And Prabhupada said, "Our guru's order is such that if we attend rasa-lila explanation we will commit offense (aparadha) so I can't stand there even for a second. I have to leave. It is my guru's order." So for us such a strict behavior he has shown, and we also do that, especially myself. In so many other places, the jhulan lila, the rasa-lila, they show by dolls — I never do that. Due to my understanding of my gurudeva's will or his words, I don't make any show of jhulana, or rasa-lila, or anything of that type. I find in my heart that this was not desirable by Prabhupada. But in so many maths [temples] I see at present, I hear also, that they are doing that. But I strictly abstain from that sort of showing, jhulana-lila, rasa-lila — I consider that is too high for us. I must be true to my hearing of the words of my gurudeva, if I want realization and not position or some sort of popularity, to attract people by such show. Or to make money, or a "favorable field for preaching," they may do like that, but I don't do. I don't want popularity or any position of a higher Acharya. I am a student still I consider myself to be a student, a faithful student to what I have heard from my gurudeva. I try my best to stick there, to keep my position there as I have heard from him. I don't want to mutilate that in any way to suit my purpose. I try not to do that. Of course for "big propaganda" they may adopt different ways as they think, they are now free, but I am not a member to do so, to go on in such way. When Prabhupada offered me to go to the west and I told simply that I don't consider myself fit to go because I won't be able to show success there. Two defects I showed; unable to catch their intonation and not inclined to mix. Then some of the sannyasins showed much reverence to me, "What is this? What so many persons are eager to take; you lose this chance? You neglect to take advantage of such a position. That you will be a world preacher; you have no hankering for that?" I told, "Yes Maharaja, I have no hankering for such position. My only humble ambition is that I may be reckoned as a sincere devotee of Mahaprabhu, Sri Chaitanyadev. No other ambition I have in my mind to become a world preacher and so on. So in my nature I am such and such. I want truth and I hope, I crave for the mercy of the Vaishnavas and you all, that I may not have any ambition but to be the humblest, most humble servant of the Lord and that I may not be misguided. I may engage myself in the lower form of service: tad dasa dasa dasanam dasatvam dehi me prabho: my faith may be so firm, may be of such quality that the least offer of his divine service may satisfy me. I should not be ambitious to run high, to get the chance there in the higher officer class. With my lowest connection with divinity I may go on satisfied with my ideal. Gaura Haribol: pada dhuli, Mahaprabhu says, "Just consider me as dust at the feet of you — Krishna." ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram patitam mam visame bhavambudhau krpaya tava pada-pankaja-sthita-dhuli-sadrsam vicintaya Consider me to be a particle of the dust of your feet. That should be our guidance. Even that is too much. Our faith should come to such a grade in quality that we may be satisfied becoming a particle of dust at his feet. Then by his sweet will anything may happen, but our humble aim should be to have the least connection with divinity — real — not a concoction, not a concocted Krishna. Pujala raga patha gaurava bhange — very sweet… The raga patha is overhead. We are servants of the raga patha. We are in vidhi-marga, under sastric rule. We must live and move under sastric rule and always keep the raga patha on our head. Once Prabhupada, while in Radha-kunda, one panda in his talk made a side remark that we are Brahmins in Braja and we can bless Das Goswami. Prabhupada was perturbed by such haughty remark. "Das Goswami is the highest acharya in our Gaudiya camp and that fellow says that he is able to bless Das Goswami and I am to hear that!" He wouldn't take food. And he remarked. "If I was an ordinary babaji, I wouldn't care, I would leave the place. But I am running with a motorcar here, as an acharya. I have got the responsibility, moving here in the pose of an acharya that I shall protect the sampradaya. I shall brush the dust, the undesirability from the sampradaya. In a motorcar I am running around Vrindavan, how can I tolerate such a remark against my guru? He left food, "No — I won't take food, I can't take anything, until the situation is rectified." Prabhupada began fasting; we were all fasting. Then one influential person, when he heard the news, came and briefed that Brahmin who begged pardon, "Excuse me. I am an ordinary man, a fallen fellow I do not know the greatness of Das Goswami. He came in the caste of a sudra family and I am in a Brahmin family; with general information I made such remark. But now I find that I committed mistake, please forgive me." Then of course it was minimized and Prabhupada took food and we all took food. Pujala raga patha gaurava bhange—gaurava bhange: always his posing was like that of a protector, not only protector—a servant protector of the sampradaya. He himself remarked, Bhaktivinode Thakur has taken a pose that, "I am a jhadudar," which means who clears away the dirt, a sweeper. Bhaktivinode Thakur told that I am the sweeper in the Nama Hatta of Nityananda Prabhu and Prabhupada told that "I am one of the straws in the broom in the hands of Bhaktivinode Thakur. Bhaktivinode Thakur is the sweeper, with a broom in his hand, and I am one of the straws in his broom." And if this remark is sincere, and not imitation or any false assumption, but his sincere liking is for that, then this is the unit of measurement with which we must construct our body and then we shall venture to hope to enter into Vaikuntha, in Goloka, the camp of the Brijabasis. So trnad api sunicena is not figurative or ornamental but real, substantial. If we think like that, in what level should I come, should we take ourselves to be qualified to enter into the domain of the Lord? In Goloka there is not the least ambition, only cent percent dedicated agents. Meanest of the mean: with this idea, this is the qualification to enter into that domain. What is required of us: trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. Because in cent percent humility there cannot be any trace of enjoying spirit. No aggression is possible. The meanest of the mean, that is, they eliminate fully the aggressive nature. Aggressive nature cannot be present there. An enjoyer must be an aggressor. Aggression is a property of this world of exploitation. Dedication of this quality is necessary for entrance into that domain. This is reality, otherwise all concoction, all imagination. If this is imagination, then that is also imagination. If this is concrete reality, then to them Goloka is reality. In that plane they will come in contact with Goloka. In such a subtle and fundamental plane they will come in contact with that thing, really. Otherwise this is all a fool's paradise: to live in a fool's paradise. If we have faith in this, then that is real to us. Otherwise we will be given the ambition to live in a fool's paradise. Jaya Chaitanya Dayal, Nitai Chaitanya, Gaura Haribol! I think I did something to give vent to the feeling of my gurudeva today: his position, to make clear his position. I did something today — Gaura Haribol! Pujala raga patha gaurava bhange — this is enough! Tad dasa dasa dasanam dasatvam dehi me prabho, this is not a figurative thing. It is not mere poetry. Mahaprabhu says: naham vipro na ca nara-patir napi vaisyo na sudro naham varni na ca grha-patir no vanastho yatir va kintu prodyan-nikhila-paramananda-purnamrtabdher gopi-bhartuh pada-kamalayor dasa-dasanudasah This is not an ornamental thing only; it is reality. It is reality! We must become ostentatiously mean, really, to become eligible for the higher service. Such selflessness, such abnegation is necessary for a unit of the lowest order to enter into that domain. Such self-abnegation is necessary. Then we can come into that plane. That is an undercurrent plane and if we really want to contact with that we shall have to be finest of the fine, no demand; through negativity, we will be transformed. Then we can have a touch of that plane. The least exploiting tendency or a speck of ambitious life won't take us there. It is another thing — pratistha. Pratistha means self-establishment: hard, stability, to be stable, to be immortal, to be invincible. Not self-giving but self-establishing tendency — pratistha. I must stay; I must live. On the contrary, if necessary, I must die for the interest of Krishna: marobi rakhobi jo iccha tohara, a suicidal soldier, for the cause of the country, if necessary, I must die. I must efface myself. I must be effaced if it is necessary, my very existence may be effaced, if it is necessary for the satisfaction of Krishna. Hare Krishna, Gaura Haribol, Gaura Haribol! Nitai Chaitanya. My very existence may be effaced if it is necessary. Such temperament, such selflessness of such degree is necessary. Find out that plane, such subtleness. Gaura Haribol, Gaura Haribol, Gaura Haribol, Gaura Haribol! Nitai Chaitanya Dayal. Mahaprabhu, Krishna, Krishna. Let us be blessed by Prabhupada, Saraswati Thakur, Gaura Haribol, Jaya Chaitanya! Audience: Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja ki jaya! Audience: Jaya! Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! Gandhi told one gentleman who was yelling, "Gandhi ki jaya! Mahatma Gandhi ki jaya!Here they are giving, singing glory to a particular form, but if I go away from that position? Then they will chant, "Down with Gandhi! Down with Gandhi!" So he says, it does not concern me. Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! So the "jaya!" goes to somewhere else. All Glory to Guru and Gauranga! All Glory to Guru and Gauranga! Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja ki jaya! Seva Vrnda ki jaya! Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! You are helping me to take out from my inner heart so many beautiful and valuable things. It is through your heart that these old memories are becoming again fresh to me. I am forced to take out those things from the inner nature of my previous life: the wealth that I got from my Gurudeva. Again I got the chance of seeing that treasury; given the opportunity by this recapitulation, what I heard from the divine feet of my master. Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! Are you dissatisfied? Audience: No! No! We are completely satisfied! Such a valuable thing and this is what is our education, what I got from the divine feet of Srila Saraswati Thakur. I just sincerely put it to you all. It is such. Gaurasundar. Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! Pujala raga patha gaurava bhange. He told, we must not go and live in Radha-kunda. One day, near Lalita-kunda, the Svananda Sukhada Kuñja is there, the first story of a building was being constructed and our Guru Maharaja told a second story is necessary "but I won't be able to live there." I told, "If you don't live on the second story then who will live there? What is the necessity of further construction?" He replied, "No, you don't know, better persons will live there: Bhaktivinode Thakur, Gaura Kishore Babaji Maharaja, they will live there. And we will live on the ground floor and serve them." Again, another time he told, "I shall live in Govardhan. Radha-kunda is the highest place, the place of our guru maharaja, our gurudeva. They will live here in closer connection with lila and we are not fit to live there. We shall live in Govardhan, a little far away, because we shall have to come and serve our gurudeva, so we must live nearby but we must not live in closer connection with them. We are not fit." Pujala raga patha gaurava bhange. The whole tenor of his life was such: pujala raga patha gaurava bhange. That is high, high; from below we are to honor that. To establish in the whole world this sort of posing: that that is too high. One day in Allahbahad, perhaps that very year Swami Maharaja was initiated. In Malakha, in a park our Guru Maharaja issued a challenge, "I issue a challenge." As wrestlers challenge anyone to wrestle, in a meadow, two fighters face-off; just as the one who became Mohammedan from Christian — Mohammed Ali — challenged the world. "I am ready to fight with any person to show that the highest position is occupied by my gurudeva, Bhaktivinode Thakur, Gaura Kishore Babaji, Mahaprabhu. Let anyone come to fight with me to decide—I'm ready!" That he told, "I am ready to challenge anybody and everybody. Let them come and fight with me. I want to establish my gurudeva on the throne, in the highest place. Gaura Haribol! Gaura Haribol! Pujala raga patha gaurava bhange. Nitai Chaitanya…
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