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vijay

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  1. QUOTE Lord Swaminarayan himself stated taht He was Krishna and he came down for the upliftment of mankind. REPLY The point of the discussion is that im asserting that the followers have become mixed up this also includes the vachanamrita written by the followers, therefore to use the vachanamrta to prove something is not logical. QUOTE "Were All these thousands of people before him unaware? Did they not know? All these vedanti's converted and many Muslims too. Is converting a muslim so easy? He gave many Samadhi by the click of his fingers and showed them vaikunts, brahmmpur etc. Many saw Shiva in him many saw krishna or ram even ganesh. were such samadhi's nonesense? He had 500 paramhanses (saints). Where they following a blind faith?" REPLY Please understand that thousands of people thinking someone is god is no proof of someone being god. Sathya sai aswell as many aother so-called gods have millions of people who says he is god they even says they have vissions of him and I have personally seen dust come out of a picture, this is no proof of god. Converting muslim is no proof of god either an empowered preacher can also do this, srila prabhupada converted many and the preaching is still going along in islamic countries. As for the samadhis again these are stories from followers just like his childhood pastimes which are in question mearely asserting it to be so doesnt make it so. QUOTE "Of course not. He was the lord himself. Padma Puran: II Datatrayam krutyuge, tretayaam raghunandana, dvapare vasudevaha, kalou swami vrushatmaja II Vishnu Dharmottar: II Pakhandbahuleloke swami namna hari swayam, papank nimagnam tajuddhaaryishyati II II Mahadharmanvye punye, naamna paapvinashke, hariprasad vivrasya, swami namna hari svayam II REPLY First you will have to give me references of the exact verse/chapter numbers, preferbly with your word for word transliteration as ive seen other verses given by you guys from the bhagvatam which have been stretched beyond imagination. From my limiteed knowledge of sanksrit and the fact that i cant find words like "vivrasyavrushatmaja" in the english-sanskrit dictionaries it would be better to give the sanskrit with diacritic marks and your transliteration of it. And also to claim someone avtari you have to do better than 2 vague verses, as well as the fact you are chanting a name whcih is not athorised or even exist in sastra as the mahamantra, instead it says chant the names of krishna. Here are the predictions of mahaprabhu, sure some fo them are vague howvere there are many very direct ones that exist in the puranas theres at least 40-50 verses http://www.acbspn.com/godhead/gaura_1predictions.htm So for your claims you will need to give exact evidence like the link above, as you are not making a small claim the claim is extermely huge. QUOTE "Vijay, You keep going round and round in circles over the same thing. Either you forget or refuse to acknowledge when you have been answered. Swaminarayan's other name is Krshna. " REPLY Sai baba and others like him also say their other name is krishna this isnt good enough. QUOTE That live (saakshat) God (bhagvan) Krshna who is above kshar and akshar, appeared from Bhakti through Dharma as Swaminarayan; assumed a human body on the earth like a dramatist (natta). That Krshna whilst observing the (human’s) dharmas of an Acharya speaks in third person (parokshavann) but that Krshna is none other than Himself” REPLY So here you'r swami basically word juggles verse 108 that clearly says krishna is avtari to mean that swaminaran is avatari. Where does this swami figure out "(parokshavann) but that Krshna is none other than Himself” On what basis does he translate this verse to suit his philosophy, at what points in the shikshapatri do you randomly translate krishna in vrindavan with radh on his left to mean swaminarayan. This is nonsense. Ive asked you to provide an explanation of how you swap swaminarayan with krishna at certain points in the shikshapatri by someone just doing it on a whim is not good enough. QUOTE Swaminarayan Bhagwan was indeed a Guru, Sadhu, Acharya, Teacher and even a devotee of Krshna. But this does not contradict His status as God. For if this were the case then Lord Rama was a King and fulfilled His role as the ruler of Ayodhya. Lord Krshna was a cowherd and later the King of Dwarika. Also, Lord Nar Narayana were brahmchari-rishis performing tappascharya in Badrik Ashram. Does this imply that they were not God just because they were kings, a cowherd or rishis? REPLY Are you not listening, they were god because sastra says they are god. Sastra predicts incarnations of god just so foolish residents of kaliyuga dont get confused. Sastra says what names should be chanted in kaliyuga so we dont get confused by foolish people. Clear? QUOTE The Srimad Bhagavatam in 1st Skandha, 3rd Adhyay, 28th Shloka therefore declares after listing 24 avatars including Vasudev Krishna that “ete chamsh kalaha pumsaha, krshnastu bhagavan svayam” i.e. all these (i.e.24 listed including Vasudev Krshna) are various portions of the Supreme. Bhagavat refers to this same ‘eternal’ Krshna, that Artha Dipika speaks of, as Bhagwan Himself. REPLY Yes krishna and his name is eternal and he existed before his arrival in the relm of golok vrindavan. The reason for your confusion is that vasudeva krsna is mentioned in the list of 24 avtarthis as prabhupada explains this clearly below in the purort to this verse. "In this particular stanza Lord Sri Krishna, the Personality of Godhead, is distinguished from other incarnations. He is counted amongst the avataras (incarnations) because out of His causeless mercy the Lord descends from His transcendental abode. Avatara means "one who descends." All the incarnations of the Lord, including the Lord Himself, descend on the different planets of the material world as also in different species of life to fulfill particular missions. Sometimes He comes Himself, and sometimes His different plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, or His differentiated portions directly or indirectly empowered by Him, descend on this material world to execute certain specific functions. " If you still are not happy with this then please read this link as a full analysis of this argument is given. http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/bhagavan-svayam.html Also in the 10th canto of srimad bhagvatam the story of bramha stealing the gopas and cows for a year is told. At the end of this year (bramhas moment) brmah comes and sees that all the cows and gopas are narayans then he sees them going back in to krsna where in he speaks this verse SB. 10.14.14 SYNONYMS narayanah -- the Supreme Lord Narayana; tvam -- You; na -- not; hi -- whether; sarva -- of all; dehinam -- embodied living beings; atma -- the Supersoul; asi -- You are; adhisa -- O supreme controller; akhila -- of all; loka -- planets; sakshi -- the witness; narayanah -- Lord Sri Narayana; angam -- the expanded plenary portion; nara -- from the Supreme Personality; bhu -- originating; jala -- of the water; ayanat -- because of being the manifesting source; tat -- that (expansion); ca -- and; api -- indeed; satyam -- true; na -- not; tava -- Your; eva -- at all; maya -- illusory energy. TRANSLATION Are You not the original Narayana, O supreme controller, since You are the Soul of every embodied being and the eternal witness of all created realms? Indeed, Lord Narayana is Your expansion, and He is called Narayana because He is the generating source of the primeval water of the universe. He is real, not a product of Your illusory Maya. This is bramha saying krsna the little boy that appeared in vrindavan is the cause of all expansions as he offers his prayers. QUOTE You seem hell bent on writing off the Swaminarayan faith as a cult or non-vedic. Now let's see if you actually read the above, then comprehend and THEN debate... REPLY Ive given my point by point arguments to what you have written, now lets see if you have comprehnded what has been written.
  2. "Lord has many other names beside Krishna" Those names are in scripture. Ram, vyas etc are mentioned in scripture and their purposes. MY POINT - Swaminarayan mantra is not mentioned in scripture nor swaminarayan - he instruicted you to chant krishnas name in shikshapatri so do the vedas (Krsnas athorised names). SECOND POINT - He is not avatari (I dont believe even an avtar but we can talk about that later) As he states in shikashapatri verse 108 that krishna is the source of all incarnations. So do you admit these things if not then may i ask why. Please address these points as we seem to be dodging the point. If you word jugglry the shikshapatri to mean swaminarayan = krsna in some instances then please also demonstarte how you come to that conclusion.
  3. TURKMENISTAN: Major Hare Krishna festival banned By Felix Corley, Editor, Forum 18 News Service Banned since the spring from meeting in the house it rented for use as a temple in the wake of February and March police and secret police raids, the Hare Krishna community in the capital Ashgabad [Ashgabat] was warned by officials not to hold celebrations on 17 and 18 April for Rama Navami, one of the most important Hare Krishna festivals of the year. "Our community can't meet at all now," Hare Krishna sources complained to Forum 18 News Service, "neither in the house, nor at the legal address. This is critical as religious communities can't meet in private homes and local authorities are afraid of renting property they own to religious communities as they don't want problems. So what can the community do?" Officials warned the Hare Krishna community in the capital Ashgabad [Ashgabat] not to hold celebrations on 17 and 18 April for the festival of Rama Navami, an annual celebration marking the appearance of Lord Sri Ramacandra and one of the most important Hare Krishna festivals. "Our community wanted to celebrate the festival," Hare Krishna sources who preferred not to be named told Forum 18 News Service on 25 April, "but was told it couldn't meet in the house it has been renting since last September." As religious meetings in private homes are banned, this meant that the Ashgabad community could not hold the celebration at all. The ban follows earlier police and National Security Ministry secret police raids on the community in February and March which halted all Hare Krishna worship in the capital despite the fact that the community is registered with the government. The sources reported that a few days before the festival, officials from Ashgabad city administration summoned several local Hare Krishna leaders and told them that the community cannot meet until planned new government regulations have been produced and published. Officials complained that when the community rented the house last year it had declared that it would use the premises for business purposes but had violated this by using the house for religious meetings. (Ashgabad city administration issued a decree in July 2004 banning the renting of private homes and flats for business and religious purposes.) "The local administration knew that our community was renting the house for religious purposes and made no objection," the sources insisted to Forum 18. "They could have intervened last year when the forms were being filled in, but they didn't. And the community paid the tax for one year in advance." The Hare Krishna community had used the house, owned by female devotee Gaurabhakta devi dasi, as its temple until soon after the harsh new law on religion was adopted in 1996 and the community lost its official registration – along with all other non-Muslim and non-Russian Orthodox religious communities - in the compulsory re-registration in 1997. When the community finally achieved re-registration in summer 2004 it registered its legal address in a private flat. However, officials banned the group from meeting at the legal address, so the community rented the house, paying the tax for one year of 1,200,000 manats (1,447 Norwegian kroner, 178 Euros or 230 US dollars at the vastly inflated official exchange rate) using contributions from community members. "The government's Gengeshi (Committee) for Religious Affairs had no objection to renting the house – it knew it would be used for religious purposes." The community met at the house without obstacle for some six months before the police and secret police raids, during which they were ordered not to meet there again. When the Hare Krishna devotees asked the tax office to return half a year's tax they had already paid if the community could no longer rent the premises, the tax office refused. "Our community can't meet at all now," the Hare Krishna sources complained, "neither in the house, nor at the legal address. This is critical as religious communities can't meet in private homes and local authorities are afraid of renting property they own to religious communities as they don't want problems. So what can the community do?" After the government allowed minority religious communities to register again last summer for the first time since 1997 it banned some of the newly-registered communities from holding any services. The Seventh-day Adventist and the Baptist communities in Ashgabad were both denied permission to meet for more than half a year after gaining registration. Many more religious minorities, as well as many Muslim communities, have still not been able to register (see F18News 22 April 2005 http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=548). Up to about 70 Hare Krishna devotees would gather in Ashgabad to mark major festivals, community members told Forum 18, with perhaps two dozen on a weekly basis. A Hare Krishna community also meets in the Mari region east of the capital. In May 2003, the communities in Ashgabad and in the village of Budenovsky just outside the town of Mari were raided by police at a time of widespread raids on religious communities of a variety of faiths (see F18News 8 July 2003 http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=100). The authorities used tractors to destroy the temple in Budenovsky in August 1999 as persecution of religious minorities was beginning to intensify. Three months later the authorities used bulldozers to destroy the Adventist church in Ashgabad. No religious communities that had places of worship destroyed or confiscated between 1999 and 2004 (including Muslim, Adventist, Baptist, Pentecostal or Hare Krishna communities) have had apologies or compensation for the destroyed buildings. For more background, see Forum 18's Turkmenistan religious freedom survey at http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=296 A printer-friendly map of Turkmenistan is available at http://www.nationalgeographic.com/xpeditions/atlas/index.html?Parent=asia&Rootmap=turkme
  4. QUOTE "They Go to Golok. Akshardham is another name for Golok. God is one. He is swaminarayan, krishna etc. He has many names. There are more than 24 incarnations. Swaminarayan is the incarnation of Nar Narayan. " REPLY The swaminaryana doctrine is that swaminaryana is avatari the source of all incarnations not just an avatar. The believe his abode is in the center of Golok vrindavan being higher in status to golok vrindava as he is avatari. Dont be fooled by their word juglery. In swaminaryanas own words he says to chant krishnas 8 sylabal name in the shikshapatri and also in verse 108 it is clearly stated krishna is the source of all incarnations. Either swaminarayna is a liar or the followers have wrongly though of swaminaryana as avatari. If you dont believe me check out their scriptures this is their philosophy ive been raised a swaminarayan and spoke to their saints both from the baps side and isso. QUOTE in the Bhagwad Geeta: lord krishna in the 10th Canto Skanda 51 has said to Muchukund king that there are many incarnations. Sut Goswami in the 1st canto at the end has also declared that "there are many incarnations. How many should i count?" REPLY http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/kaliyuga.htm Please read how although their are many inacrnations the scripture pescribe chanting the names of krishna in kaliyuga, it describes how their will be many false doctrines, and thus the message is clear in that bahgavat, padma purana etc thats to chant the names of krishna, not the so-called mahamantra 'swaminarayna' which can not even be seen anywhere in the scriptures, why would vyas leave something like that out? QUOTE In the dasmaskand, 50th chapter, 10th Shloka, Lord Krishna has explained to baldev that he will incarnate as lord Swaminarayan. REPLY NO IT DOESNT The translation is pritty clear here. anyo 'pi dharma-rakṣāyai dehaḥ saḿbhriyate mayā virāmāyāpy adharmasya kāle prabhavataḥ kvacit SYNONYMS anyaḥ — another; api — as well; dharma — of religion; rakṣāyai — for the protection; dehaḥ — body; saḿbhriyate — is assumed; mayā — by Me; virāmāya — for the stopping; api — also; adharmasya — of irreligion; kāle — in the course of time; prabhavataḥ — becoming prominent; kvacit — whenever. TRANSLATION I also assume other bodies to protect religion and to end irreligion whenever it flourishes in the course of time. Seems like you look for one or 2 words that match (dharma) swaminarayns fathers name and forget looking at the verse properly. QUOTE In the Dvityaskand 4th chapter 18th shloka Shukhdevji has said within his Manglacharan that lord Swaminarayan will incarnate. REPLY Are you talking about srimad bhagvatam if so i didnt find any mention of swaminarayan in 2:4:18 QUOTE Ekadash Skanda, 5th chapter, 38th shloka yogeshwara has described to king Janak about Lord Swaminarayan. REPLY kṛtādiṣu prajā rājan kalāv icchanti sambhavam kalau khalu bhaviṣyanti nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ kvacit kvacin mahā-rāja draviḍeṣu ca bhūriśaḥ tāmraparṇī nadī yatra kṛtamālā payasvinī kāverī ca mahā-puṇyā pratīcī ca mahā-nadī ye pibanti jalaḿ tāsāḿ manujā manujeśvara prāyo bhaktā bhagavati vāsudeve 'malāśayāḥ SYNONYMS kṛta-ādiṣu — of Satya and the other earlier ages; prajāḥ — the inhabitants; rājan — O King; kalau — in Kali-yuga; icchanti — they want; sambhavam — birth; kalau — in Kali; khalu — certainly; bhaviṣyanti — there will be; nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ — devotees who dedicate their lives to the service of Lord Nārāyaṇa; kvacit kvacit — here and there; mahā-rāja — O great monarch; draviḍeṣu — in the provinces of South India; ca — but; bhūriśaḥ — especially plentifully; tāmraparṇī — named Tāmraparṇī; nadī — the river; yatra — where; kṛtamālā — Kṛtamālā; payasvinī — Payasvinī; kāverī — Kāverī; ca — and; mahā-puṇyā — extremely pious; pratīcī — named Pratīcī; ca — and; mahā-nadī — the Mahānadī; ye — those who; pibanti — drink; jalam — the water; tāsām — of these; manujāḥ — humans; manuja-īśvara — O lord of men (Nimi); prāyaḥ — for the most part; bhaktāḥ — devotees; bhagavati — of the Personality of Godhead; vāsudeve — Lord Vāsudeva; amala-āśayāḥ — having spotless hearts. TRANSLATION My dear King, the inhabitants of Satya-yuga and other ages eagerly desire to take birth in this age of Kali, since in this age there will be many devotees of the Supreme Lord, Nārāyaṇa. These devotees will appear in various places but will be especially numerous in South India. O master of men, in the age of Kali those persons who drink the waters of the holy rivers of Draviḍa-deśa, such as the Tāmraparṇī, Krtamālā, Payasvinī, the extremely pious Kāverī and the Pratīcī Mahānadī, will almost all be purehearted devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vāsudeva. For the purport given by prabhupada http://vedabase.net/sb/11/5/38-40/en Im afraid for an avatari to predicted Its not enough where ever it says narayana that you take it to mean swaminarayan. This verse is clearly talking about the bonifide sri sampradaya which isstill famous for its strict worship of narayan today. If you read srila prabhupadas purport he As for the rest of your quotes I will hopefully one day get the scripture and run it by a credible sanskrit translator.
  5. >And Hinduism, he said, offers `false hope'; it guarantees `purification' based on a `morally cruel' concept of reincarnation resembling `a continuous circle of hell'." I am curious to know what he thinks of the Christian worldview in which a man is born into this world, naturally takes on the beliefs of whoever raises him, and after death suffers eternally if he was not raised or converted to Christianity. By this logic, everyone born into this world before Christ automatically goes to hell eternally. And those who are born after Christ, but are geographically isolated from Christians, also go to Hell despite whatever virtues they may possess. With its "one-lifetime,Jesus only," and "eternal Hell" beliefs, Christianity strikes me as a very cruel and illogical religion. Consequently, the only criticisms they can make of other religions are also confused and mixed up. This remains the case even when "highly respected" theologians (who are still highly respected even though they eat beef) make these statements. Aravind Mohanram <psuaravind> wrote: Hare Krishna, I came across this on a website (I assume it is authentic) that quotes the Cardinal's (now pope) views on Hinduism/Buddhism. Not to be drawn into the controversy of whether he appreciates other religions or not, what made me curious was his take on reincarnation - see this for example, "In 1997 Ratzinger annoyed Buddhists by calling their religion an ‘autoerotic spirituality’ that offers ‘transcendence without imposing concrete religious obligations’. And Hinduism, he said, offers ‘false hope’; it guarantees ‘purification’ based on a ‘morally cruel’ concept of reincarnation resembling ‘a continuous circle of hell’." I have known people who have been fascinated by the Vedic concept of karma and reincarnation, as it offers an opportunity to the living entity to play out his desires in various life forms and ultimately gain the human form for self-realization - even if a person is extremely sinful his whole life, he is still given a chance through devolution (to lower species to pay for his sins) and evolution (to human form after he nullifies the sins), a concept not found in the western religions. So, I'm not sure, why Cardinal Ratzinger, a highly respected theologian holds such views. He says 'continuous circle of hell' - however, anyone who even gives a cursory reading of Vedic philosophy will know better than this, in my opinion. So, my question is, do the Pope's views reflect the general thinking of christians about reincarnation? can members enlighten me on what christians think about reincarnation? iys Aravind.
  6. where did you get this from? did you create it?
  7. Thanks for that link, but again thats one persons perception there are other scientists perceptions and dhrutakarmas own defence of the claims. This is examined in his book Forbidden Archeology's Impact which was realesed due to the amount of reaction he recieved from the scientific community positive and bad. After reading both side of the arguments (which i've started reading a few years ago) I've realised one thing for sure, if some one makes bold statemnets on either side without researching the topic are arrogant and not knowledgable.
  8. >ISN"T IT STRANGE: >----------------- > >Isn't it strange how $200 >seems like such a large >amount when you donate it to temple, >but such a small amount >when you go shopping? > >Isn't it strange how 2 hours >seem so long when >you're at the temple, >and how short they seem when you're >watching a good movie? > >Isn't it strange that you can't >find a word to say when >you're praying, >but you have no trouble >thinking what to talk about >with a friend? > >Isn't it strange how difficult >and boring it is to read >one chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, >but how easy it is to >read 100 pages of a popular novel? > >Isn't it strange how everyone >wants front-row-tickets >to concerts or games, >but they do whatever >is possible to sit at the last >row or at the back of the temple room? > >Isn't it strange how we need to >know about an event for >temple 2-3 weeks before the day >so we can include it in our agenda, >but we can adjust it for other events >in the last minute? > >Isn't it strange how difficult it >is to learn a fact about >God to share it with others, >but how easy it is to learn, >understand, extend and repeat gossip? > >Isn't it strange how we >believe everything >that magazines and newspapers >say, but we question the words in the >Bhagavatam and other scriptures? > >Isn't it strange how everyone >wants a place in the spiritual world, >but they don't want to believe, >do, or say anything to get there? > >Isn't it strange how we send >jokes in e-mails >and they are forwarded >right away, >but when we are going to send >messages about Krishna, we think >about it twice before we share >it with others? > >IT'S STRANGE ISN'T IT?
  9. An interesting link http://www.atributetohinduism.com/India_and_Egypt.htm
  10. I found this on swaminaryana sect, there are 2 main sects i believe one under a hereditory acarya and another (BAPS) who believe god resides within the guru for 24 generations. I read about the caste acarya in the below article. It seems the isso sect is fundementally flawed as the acaryaship is based on something like the caste goswamis, birth not quality of devotion, the swaminaryana sect seems simple and renounced their acraya who controls all the temples lives a lavish lifestyle his kids get sent to normal college and then the ownership of the sect is passed on to them. Vicious fight for control of Swaminarayan Trust DARSHAN DESAI -- VADTAL (KHEDA DIST), APRIL 15: The ink is still not dry on the sensational kidnap and murder drama of Swami Gadadharanand as the case continues in the courts, but the same murky power struggle that did him in two years ago, is back again at the 117-year-old Swaminarayan Temple in Vadtal. The murder, that took over a year to unravel, shook the foundations of the 200-year-old sect and shocked thousands of devotees throughout the country and abroad. Three sadhus are behind bars as undertrials while one is out on bail for the gruesome killing. But nothing has changed for the godmen, who continue their meditated pursuit of the moolah. With elections to the board of the multi-crore Swaminarayan Temple Trust just three days away, the vicious game has begun all over again with saffron-clad sadhus and their shishyas conducting a vituperative no-holds-barred campaign against one another. It was the fight for supremacy of this board of trustees, which was behind the godman's murder and of two more in 1978 and 1986. Banners, posters, wall-graffiti and public meetings are on, with even AcharyaAjendraprasadji, the reigning dharma-guru of the Swaminarayan sect, himself plunging into the campaign in favour of the Acharya faction. Facing them is the Dev faction, led by the quick-witted Nautam Swami, who pulls back no punches against the dharma-guru's opulence. Ajendraprasadji enjoys the luxury of three cars, a Tata Sierra, Tata Estate and Tata Sumo, he has two sprawling mansions, he is paid a monthly allowance of Rs 36,000 even as his food and other requirements are met by the temple trust. The temple trust controls 36 temples across the country, whose accumulated earnings is over Rs 12 crore, and this is besides the lavish gifts and lakhs of rupees each of the 500 sadhus at Vadtal get. Nobody could even guestimate the value of other assets and real estate owned by sadhus. The godmen are wooing as many as 18,642 voters with election symbols such as elephant, Ganesh, Hanuman, Krishna, rising sun, lamp and lotus. There are 18,000 votes of Grihasthas (rich and religiously active commoners), 362 of saffron-clad sadhus, 262 Paarsads (white-clad shishyas of sadhus) and 18 Brahmcharis. They will elect the eight-member trust board, which has the Chief Executive Kothari as an ex-officio member. The swamis, as earlier, remain split into two major factions. The Acharya group, representing the descendants of Lord Swaminarayan, an avtaar of Lord Krishna, and their disciples. The other is Dev Group, comprising sadhus and their trainees. Acharya group believes since the ``blood of the Lord'' runs in their veins, they should control the temple trust, and the Dev group argues the temple is nobody's ancestral property, it belongs to the devotees and the sadhus. By temple, they mean the cash, the property, the luxuries, and so the power. The struggle for power between the two groups has come out in the open, with the sadhus now donning the role of street-side politicians as they hurl choicest of accusations against each other. While they tour villages to campaign through public meetings and personal contacts, even the temple premises is freely used as the propaganda field. Banners hang all over the magnificent temple complex, while the writings on the walls outside call upon voters to elect those committed to the spread of the sect and its message. The names of candidates are painted on the walls with their panel numbers. Acharya Ajendraprasadji addressed a two-day convention in the assembly hall of the temple on March 25 and 26, but his supporter Sukhdev Swami claims,``It was not an election meeting; it was religious.'' He, then, agreed that candidates of the Acharya group did participate in the convention. The message there, and in the campaign, is that the Dev group is trying to topple the Acharya to gain supremacy over the temple. Nautam Swami asserted, talking to The Indian Express, ``The Acharya is behaving like a petty person, unbecoming of the leader of a sect.'' In his campaign, he tells the voters that it was during the control of the Acharya group over the temple trust, that the Acharya's pocket money was raised from Rs 2,000 to Rs 36,000. That was when, he says, they allotted one more car to him, while he does not go anywhere. 2000 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd.
  11. According to the gita those that worship humans take birth as humans, I guess being pious and also saying the name of narayana even though not inteneded for narayana they wil gain benfit and may take their birth in a vaishnava family in thier next lives.
  12. "by default Hindu means Vedic Dharma" To some any tom dick or harry claiming to be god like swaminaryana sai etc may be hindu dharma, not neccesarily vedic, like swaminarayans will say their vachanamrita is more athoritive than the vedas, so some wouldnt consider that vedic dharma, others believe that they can do whatever and call them selves hindu as "in hinduism theres no right or wrong". Therefore we dont encourage such a vague term. "Good for you now just don’t talk about it, realize it." This is a forum its meant for talking, with the same logic y do you talk y dont you just realise it? Anyway good luck following your dharma, Hare Krishna.
  13. "We use the logic to understand that which is beyond logic. We bind him in our little enviroment and declare everyone else as wrong how logical is that?" We follow an athority, which is gita we take it as it is, it says only through bhakti can we know krishna, and thus we accept it as true. "Opinion turns in to conclusion. Where does veda conclude, it says neti, neti. He is not knowable by perception, turned inward or outward, nor by both combined. He is neither that which is known, nor that which is not known, nor is he the sum of all that might be known. He can not be seen, grasped, bargained with. He is undefineable, unthinkable, indescribable. The only proof of his existence is union with him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second. This is the fourth condition of the self- the most worthy of all. (Mandukya Upanishad)" well actually krishna concludes on how to know himself. You can accept it or take it as a lie, its up to you. krishna spoke the gita with the intention to get a particular "interpretation" across to arjuna, and arjuna understood it in that way. Krishna in the gita also explains how the gita and krishna can be understood he doent not leave it for all to invent their own conclusions. Chapter 18, Shloks (verses) 65-66 He says, "Let your mind be constantly directed towards me; be devoted to me; dedicate all your actions to me; prostrate yourself before me; over and above the claims of all Dharmas (duties) is complete surrender to me and me alone". Chapter 11, Verse 53. The form which you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am. Chapter 11, Verse 54. My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding. Chapter 11, Verse 55. My dear Arjuna, one who is engaged in My pure devotional service, free from the contaminations of previous activities and from mental speculation, who is friendly to every living entity, certainly comes to Me. He categorically states only by bhakti that one can come to know him in truth. He says he has to be free of "mental speculation", he is god and he has told us how to attain him. He also gives the qualifications of reading gita and whom one should aquire this knowledge from. People may want to give the gita a relative interpretation but the slokas krishna speaks is certainly not relative. krishna says in the gita foolish people devoid of knowledge do not want to surrender so go on speculating. In Chapter 18, Shlok 67 Krishna says, "This confidential knowledge may not be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me. " Those with out bhakti to krishna can never understand the gita with all their debating if as krishna says you dont have bhakti. He is the reciteir of the gita he knows best how one should recieve it. In chapter 12 he talks about the qualities of a devotee so as to be sure what a devotee is and not word juggle krishnas words to mean something else. There are many more clear verses of how the gita should be understood and from whom it should be understood. Now either krishna is a liar or you know better what he ment than the clear statements he has made. The gita does not make relative debatable statements he says one should approach a guru in parampara and do devotional service unto him, he should have bhakti the diciple should be a devotee and surrendered without being engaged in mental speculation nor fruitive works and only in this way one can know krishna in truth. He then gives many ways for someone in the mental specualtion stage or fruitive work stage yogas to attain bhakti. However krishna makes it clear that the preliminary qualification to understand gita is devotion, he says to arjuna because your are my friend and devotee i am revealing this knowledge to you. "Whose standard do you apply as accepted acharya? Was Shankracharya not an accepted Archya? Is Shiva and Shakti worship some thing new ? My dear friend oldest known temples are of Lord Shiva. Lord krishna Asked Pandavas to worship Lord Shiva to atone for sins commited in the war, was that unvedic?" No none of these things are new and have existed since creation, however the different followers of the vedic religion were philosophically opposed to each other, the matsya puran states that those in the different modes of material nature worship according to thier nature and thus the puranas are divided in to 3 catergories. The So according to the vaishnava school of thought differnt paths are given for different types of people, we choose to describe ourselves by the path we follow which is devotion to krishna not an imposition of what we are by another. Krishna himself makes distinctions according to the gita those that worship demigods are bereft of intelligence. ch 7 TEXT 20 Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures. So we choose not to be lumped together by an ever changing hodge podge definition of hindu which denotes so mant types of worship we nor krishna are in favour for. "I am not here to discuss the sidhanta or defend them; I entered the discussion because of the slur on the Hindus." You are attached to hindu dharma whatever that means to you, dharma to us is service to krishna, dharma to a hindu may mean be a good person worship many gods, follow the impersonal path or the athiestic part of hinduism, which we are diametrically apposed to aswell as krishna in the gita so you may call it a slur when we disagree with whatever your conception of hindu dharma is but we are repeating what our athority krishna has said in the gita. Our dharma is to repeat what krishna has said like he has advised in the gita which may mean disturbing your idea of dharma - so be it.
  14. In Srila Prabhupada's purports, a few times he has commented upon the Mayavadi, or Impersonalists, in a way that to me sometimes seems very disparaging. It¹s important to understand this within the context of Indian religious history, and not within the context of Western religious history. Here¹s the difference. In India, we don¹t find a long history of bloody wars fought over religion. Indian religion has always tended to be inclusivistic, rather than exclusivistic. Thus the different ³religions² in Hindu culture tended to accept each other as valid but to view other schools as subordinate or preliminary to their own view. Following this tradition, Srila Prabhupada often states that the impersonalists are ³bona fide transcendentalists² but that their impersonal understanding is subordinate or preliminary to Vaishnavism. This is quite distinct from, say, declaring that impersonalism is simply false and evil. Robust theological debate flourished in India within a safe, multi-religious environment in which debate was not a precursor to war. All this stands in marked contrast to the bloody fanaticism which often typified the European and Middle Eastern approach to religion. The early Chrisitian church developed the notion of ³true² and ³false² religions, ³living² and ³dead² gods etc. In time, this strident, fanatical view led to crusades, inquisitions, religious wars etc. This type of thinking, and the violence it fostered, never became prominent in India. Today, much of the liberal, eclectic, ³all paths are the same² ethos in the West is a direct reaction to centuries of European and Middle Eastern fanaticism. Thus as in Newtonian physics, we have here an equal and opposite reaction which is far more tolerant, but equally fanatical in its own way. In general, liberal thinkers in the West do not reason their way to the conclusion that all paths are equally valid. Rather they tend to hold their view more as an ethical principle than a philosophical conclusion, more as an antidote to fanaticism than a serious, logical description of ultimate reality. Coming from a tolerant, inclusivistic culture, Prabhupada does not feel the need to emphasize the relativity of spiritual views, but rather rigorously seeks the logical truth about God. I understand the basics of the Impersonalist beliefs, and I know how Vaishnavism and Krishna consciousness are different from them. I, personally, prefer Vaishnava beliefs and bhakti yoga to worshiping a formless God. But I'm unsettled by anything that seems to be a value judgment against another religion. A preference IS a value judgment. The problem here, apparently, is not making a value judgment but rather making it publicly. It is fair to say that both the personal and the impersonal aspects of God exist simultaneously. However it is not fair, or logical, to say that both the personal and the impersonal aspects of God are supreme simultaneously. A soul who sincerely, earnestly seeks the highest truth has a ³right² to know what that ultimate truth is. If I actually know that God is ultimately a person, and I don¹t publicly say it, then I am consciously misleading or deceiving those persons who sincerely and unconditionally seek the highest truth. If I prefer bhakti yoga and being lovingly devoted to Krishna but an Impersonalist prefers something different, then what's wrong with that? It is not ³wrong², in a mundane moral sense to prefer the impersonal. In a sense every soul prefers whatever seems best to that soul. Prabhupada never teaches that impersonalists are evil souls, however he does give deep insights into metaphysical psychology. If there is a personal God, and I am duly informed of this fact, and I choose to reject that personal God, it is not then ³wrong² for an enlightened spiritual teacher to analyze my motives in making that decision. After all, if there is a unique value in knowing God¹s ultimate nature, then there must, logically, be a loss of value in not knowing that fact. To avoid that monumental loss, Prabhupada, who actually has the ultimate good of all souls at heart, speaks the truth. We cannot a priori reject his words simply because he does not relativize all spiritual claims. After all, to relativize all spiritual claims is to negate all of them. Consider the following: The personalists claim God is ultimately a person. The impersonalists claim the opposite. Now if you claim that personalism and impersonalism are the same, you are actually disagreeing with, and rejecting, the claims of both personalists and impersonalists. So metaphysical egalitarianism is only apparently liberal and tolerant. Actually it resembles fanatical Christianity in that it ultimately rejects the claims of virtually all historical religions through the act of relativizing and equating them. I consider all these other approaches as very valid ways to understand God. I am attracted to Krishna very much now, and I am a very enthusiastic student of Krishna consciousness, and I think that approach is best for me, as it is for all the other Vaishnavas I know. But I don't think I can say what's best for anyone else. My nonjudgmental approach, I believe, helps me to be more skilled and compassionate in the psychotherapy I do with others. I hope to maintain that perspective. As explained above, different paths make different claims. Many of these claims are valid, however validity and equality are very different concepts and should not be confused. Krishna states in the Gita that He is the source of everything. This claim, logically, is either true or false. If it is true, then other valid views must be understood within the context of Krishna¹s statement. If Krishna¹s claim is not true, then even if we politely say that Krishna¹s claim is valid, it is still not true. Similarly some Buddhists deny the existence of God. If their claim is true, Krishna¹s claim is false. If Krishna¹s claim is true, their claim is false. If we say both claims are true, we deny both paths, since both traditions reject the notion that both claims are true. Buddhism certainly teaches much that is true in regard to human psychology and the temporary nature of the world. However the validity of this teaching does not validate the claim made by some historical forms of Buddhism that God and the soul do not exist. The simple point here is that we should avoid both fanatical exclusivism as well as fanatical inclusivism. We should recognize the wisdom and validity present in many of the world¹s traditions, but at the same time we should have the courage and wisdom to seek, and speak, the highest truth without compromise. With best wishes, Hridayananda das Goswami
  15. Beneath Rasatala is another planetary system, known as Patala or Nagaloka, where there are many demoniac serpents, the masters of Nagaloka, such as Sankha, Kulika, Mahasankha, Sveta, Dhananjaya, Dhrtarastra, Sankhacuda, Kambala, Asvatara and Devadatta. The chief among them is Vasuki. They are all extremely angry, and they have many, many hoods--some snakes five hoods, some seven, some ten, others a hundred and others a thousand. These hoods are bedecked with valuable gems, and the light emanating from the gems illuminates the entire planetary system of bila-svarga. Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports of the Fifth Canto, Twenty-fourth Chapter of Srimad-Bhagavatam, entitled "The Subterranean Heavenly Planets." HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada But here the body is predominantly made of earth, and there the body is predominantly of fire. Therefore it is so glowing. The glowing temperature, heat and light, is coming from the person, their body is made of glowing heat or fire. There are five material elements: earth, water, fire, air, and ether. In some planet the earth is prominent, in some planet the water is prominent, in some planets the fire is prominant. So the sun planet is prominent with fire. There the bodies made of the inhabitants there are fire. So all the combination of the fiery effulgence is the heat of the sun globe and that is being distributed. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Srutakirti: Yesterday you were telling Bhurijana they should make the temple a tourist attraction. So with this method, it would be very easy. Prabhupada: Yes. (coughs) Srutakirti: Roll down the window. Prabhupada: ...the demonic, they construct very nice house. (break) ...this planet, there are seven other planets. There sunshine does not go. But they are very well situated. Madhudvisa: Well situated? Even though there's no sun? Prabhupada: Yes, but there are snakes which has got jewel on the head. That light keeps them illuminated. Madhudvisa: But does that light also keep them healthy? Prabhupada: Huh? Madhudvisa: Like the sun gives us, keeps us healthy. Prabhupada: Yes. Madhudvisa: So the jewels from the snakes can also provide that nutrition? Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Devotee 1: So those snakes are very important. (break) Prabhupada: ...plans. They had to work very hard to find out, "What is this? What is this?" So that is described in the HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
  16. Being born in a hindu family im not for being called a hindu, which is a foriegn term, and to the nationalists i say, why do they bother changing the names of places in india (even the name india is reffered to as bharat) to their original vedic names and even knocking down mosques to restore original temples and places of worship, then complain so much if vaishnavas dont want to be called hindu because its not athentic and doesnt mean much to them. A follower of sanatan dharma, a vaishnava or the like is what we want to be known as not a label choosen by foriegners and a few sentimental people who have grown attached to it. In the short term the word hindu can be used to bring people together through some ideological believes for legal,economic purposes etc, but in the long run we should use our scripture which most regard highly to determine our way of life our names our culture etc. Better to be know as a hare krishna, at least people get to chant krishnas name which is mentioned to be benificial for society at large in the gita, bhagvatam and all other vedic scriptures rather than a meaningless term such as hindu. Even though krsnadas kaviraj mentions the word hindu, it does not mean that he is encouraging us to use this term prabhupada also uses it favourably in some places as synonymos to Vedic culture, however our prime identity is eternal servent of krsna and that relationship is how we identify ourselves which is athorised by krsnadas kaviraj goswami and prabhupada, either through vaishnava or sanatan dharma etc. In my opinion our culture is hindu (in as much as it follows the vedic culture) so in that term we can be seen as hindu, but idealogically and philosophically being identified as hindu has no meaning what so ever. Generally Hindu is taken to mean a belief in many gods who are equal, and supreme god id impersonal, to a range of other contridictory philosophys. Just a few thoughts
  17. There are many quotes in bhagvatam where srila prabhupada talks about how if the cow is treated nicely it produces plentyful milk. Science has recently discovered this. Extract from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4360947.stm He continued: "We need to have a certain amount of respect for these animals, and I think most people have more respect for an animal if they feel it's aware of what's going on." More milk Being kind to farm animals isn't just a moral duty - according to the CIWF Trust delegates; there is something in it for us, too. Cows, for example, produce significantly more milk if their handlers talk to them gently rather than shouting and pushing them around. "The handlers don't have to be really mean and hit the cows," said Edmund Pajor of Purdue University, US. "It's just a slap on the rump in the way that many farmers would. But the cows don't like it and it makes a real difference. "It helps send a message about treating animals in a proper way. A number of dairy farms now have signs up saying 'please don't shout at the cows'."
  18. krishna is the source of time to ask when did he come about means that time is controller of krishna. mental gymnastics
  19. "The initiative to reform ISKCON, to make the leaders accountable and to achieve other similarly laudable resolves, is now the appointed responsibility of an initiative committee and its handpicked teams, but will the process of bureacracy itself come under scrutiny? " By whom should the process be scrutinised by? if its memebers of the gbc then it will be accused of being handpicked, if its picked by others outside of iskcon leadreship it defeats the point of gbc being managing athority of iskcon. Who else will do the reviewing??? All her other points are fine about how devotees should be encouraged to say the truth and point out injustices, but i think her above statement is catch 22. " Srila Prabhupada instructed us to introduce varnasrama within ISKCON specifically for this purpose: "to bring our members to the mode of goodness". We have ignored this instruction, ignored his warning against bureaucracy, and are using this disregard for his instruction as a means to achieve his mission. Thus we have no faith in the process itself, but hope to spread it all over the world. This problem cannot be solved by a committee. " Okay so the point is to reduce bureaucracy and bring memebers up to the mode of goodness, personally i see the problem not that devotees arent being bought up to the mode of goodness or too much bureaucracy, i think many are being bought up to mode of goodness (some staying there and not moving to real krishna conciousness) by inspired leaders, i see the problem is the lack of inspired leaders and a secondry problem of bad management however this can be resolved by becoming good leaders ourselves rather than expecting others to be that. We all have our own plane. Sure point out the flaws say the truth its good for the society to have thoughtful devotees and hopefully others will change.
  20. Heres a thread with a current discussion on swamirayana http://www.hare-krishna.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=HareKrishnaNews&Number=2520&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1 Heres an extract from the thread which i thought was pretty good. Jay Sri Radha Krishna I am sending this to you not out of jealousy or any inimical feelings, but would like to know why so many people are blind to the truth. Please do not take me wrong, as I have grown up in a family of Swaminarayana followers. This is not meant to be an argument, but straight-forward statements. Before I begin, let me inform the reader of the following: in the Shikshapatri, towards the end, Swaminarayana has written that anyone who acts against these teachings is not in his sampraday(in his sect); he also says that his followers should follow each and every verse of the Shikshapatri. He has also said that those who are evil minded and act in a bad manner should not be given the Shikshapatri; this means that those who will not act according to the Shikshapatri are not the followers of Swaminarayana, and that they are acting in a bad manner by going against these teachings, while at the same time claiming to be Swaminarayana-devotees. With that said, I will give two sides to the issue, and you can pick whichever you think is right. You may agree with what Swaminarayana has to say, or what his followers have to say. ***Note, the word "followers" in the following indicates the followers of Swaminarayana. Followers say: pray to Swaminarayana. Swaminarayana says in the first verse that he himself prays to and meditates on Lord Krishna, Who in His heart has Goddess Lakshmi, and at His left Srimati Radharani. If even Swaminarayana prays to Lord Krishna, they why should we not pray to Lord Krishna? Followers say: worship Swaminarayana. Swaminarayana says: Verse 54 "Sri Radha Krishna ni je chitrapatrima tenu aadarthaki darshan karine...". Translation: One should meditate fully on the picture or idol of Sri Radha Krishna, and offer one's respectful obeisances unto Them. In verse 102, Swaminarayana has said we should perform devotional service unto Lord Krishna with great devotion, because that is the mystery and the message of all of the revealed scriptures. This is a big one: Followers say: chant "Swaminarayana". Swaminarayana says: Verse 54 "Sri Krishna no je Astakshara mantra, teno japa karine te pasi potanu vyavharik kaam-kaaj karvu." Translation: Only after chanting the 'ASTAKSHARA MANTRA OF LORD KRISHNA' one should begin with other duties, such as household duties,etc. He has also written in verse 49: My followers should rise before dusk, and should remember Lord Krishna Bhagavan, and then they should get ready for the day. Then, in verse 63, he says: our devotees should go to a temple everyday, and should worship Him who is the husband of Srimati Radharani (Husband of Srimati Radharani is Lord Krishna), by engaging in congregational chanting of Lord Krishna's names with great devotion. ***Note: in the above argument, the followers of Swaminarayana say, as far as I know, that the Astakshara mantra is Sri Swaminarayana because it has 8 aksharas (letters when written in Sanskrit or gujarati). However, Swaminarayana has clearly stated that he is talking about the Astakshara mantra of Lord Krishna in the same verse,where he says "chant the Astakshara mantra of Lord Krishna." What fool is there that cannot understand that "Swaminarayana" is not the Astakshara mantra of Lord Krishna, when it is not even referring to Lord Krishna when chanted? Also, for those that do not know, the Astakshara mantra of Lord Krishna is: "Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama"; translation: Lord Shree Krishna is my one and only shelter. Swaminarayana has written in verse 57 that after the chanting of the Sri Krishna Sharanam mama mantra, the devotees should hold a lecture or study the sanskrit mantras by Lord Krishna, and about Lord Krishna. And for those that have not studied Sanskrit, they should simply engage Sri Krishna Bhagavana's namakirtana (congregagtional chanting of the Holy Names of Lord Krishna) Followers say: Swaminarayana is the cause of all incarnations of Godhead, such as Krsna, Rama, etc. Swaminarayana says in Verse 108: And who is that Supreme Controller(Ishavarah)? Know that ParaBrahman (the Supreme Brahman--greatest being) purushottama (the greatest of all men) who is Lord Sri Krishna Bhagavan(This is not talking about an incarnation of Lord Krishna, but about Lord Krishna Himself), He is the Supreme Controller of everything manifest and unmanifest; and that Lord Krishna is our worshipable Lord and He is the cause of all incarnations. ***In other words, Swaminarayana says that Lord Krishna is actually the cause of all causes, the cause of all incarnations, thus proving his future followers wrong, so to say. Followers say, like many of the Western world and Eastern world: Krishna is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. Swaminarayana says in a verse about # 111: Forms such as those with four hands, eight hands,etc. are created by the wish of Krishna. And what form has four or eight hands, etc? So, here, Swaminarayana is talking about Lord Narayana and Lord Vishnu; Swaminarayana means that Lord Narayana and Lord Vishnu are created by Lord Krishna, and are created by the simple desire of Lord Krishna. To make it a little more clear: This means that forms such as Lord Narayana and Lord Vishnu are simply expansions of Lord Krishna's, and they are created by the sole desire of Lord Krishna. Swaminarayana has also written: Remember Lord Krishna in the morning after waking up, and then begin daily work. When Sahajananda Swami (Swaminarayana) talks about doing puja, he says to worship Lord Krsna, to meditate on the picture or idol of Radha Krishna, and to chant Lord Krishna's Astakshara mantra: Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama. Followers say: after we die we want to go to Akshardhama. Swaminarayana says: The abode of Goloka is very dear to me. And what is that Goloka? It is the highest planet in the Vaikuntha planets, in the spiritual sky. Also, it is the abode of Lord Shree Krishna Himself. __________________________ With that said, I want to know who is a true follower of Swaminarayana? They simply say God has many names, but all of them are the same, and that is why they worship Swaminarayana. So, according to Swaminarayana himself, these people are misguided and are acting in a bad manner. Also, Swaminarayana was a devotee of Lord Krishna; and, if he started to tell other people that he himself is the cause of all incarnations including Lord Krishna and Rama, and to chant Swaminarayana, etc. then he has insulted himself by going against his own teachings. I don't know if this happened or not, so I will not argue about it. I was confused for a while some time ago about the following: if Swaminarayana says to worship Lord Krishna, and glorifies Lord Krishna, why do his pastimes show that he did so many things equal to Lord Krishna. About some time ago ago i found out the answer. Don't get mad after reading this, but someone has simply made up the pastimes. I heard that, in the show in the series on Zee-TV, the show where Swaminarayana gives work to a prostitute and gives her liberation, it is from the pastimes of Lord Krishna. So is the fighting with the wrestlers in the childhood; and probably so much other stuff. Does Swaminarayana talk about all these pastimes of his ever in his classes, etc. just curious. Sure, Swaminarayana may have been an empowered being, or an avatara, but he came on this earth to spread the worship of Lord Krishna, and if anyone goes against this and worships Swaminarayana, that is wrong because when one does that, he goes against so many teachings of Swaminarayana. With that said, I want to know, is there even one true follower of Swaminarayana on earth today? By follower I do not mean a worshipper of Swaminarayana, but a person who follows each and every order and teaching given by Swaminarayana in the Shikshapatri(book of knowledge). If I simply worship Lord Krishna, but at the same time go against so many of His teachings consciously, am I truly following Him and worshipping Him? thank you and Jai Jai Sri Radha Krishna p.s. if you still think that Swaminarayana is to be worshipped instead of Lord Krishna, and that he is greater than Lord Krishna, and that he is the cause of Lord Krishna's existence, i have nothing more and do not want anything more to tell you. Jay Sri Krishna
  21. Haribol, Can anyone shed light on who they 4 yuga avtara's are I heard it was datatreya white yajna red black krishna yellow mahaprabhu I know that krishna doesnt establish the yuga dharma as he appears at the end so how is he the yuga avtara? Also does datetrya establish a yuga dharma? Hari Hari
  22. I agree thiest prabhu, whether others are preaching or not is not our business if we see a gap we should try and fill it. Mahaprabhu gave us all the order to preach not just a few select leaders. We should all become guru that is the order and in that way our example will inspire others to preach. I sence we have beome like a communist state where we sit and point fingers about why things arent going well. Prabhupada wanted indepently thoughtful devotess who are always thinking of ways to reach out through practical action.
  23. "As far as Prabhupada saying something about taking over the U.S government, man that is really a fantasy, I don't know how you think that will ever come even close to happening. Around 40% of Americans are fanatically Christian. The rest are either fanatically not interested in any kind of religious influence over the government, or they are atheists and agnostics. Krishna conscious influence in America will never affect the government in some kind of way that you mention" I think "never" is a word in a fools dictiontary, prabhupada before he left india was told that mahaprabhus prophecy shouldnt be taken literally, but prabhupada having firm conviction went to a country and a time where free sex and breaking most of the regs was the norm at a time when governements were getting more materialistsic, no one could imagine whites,black, christians and even muslims turning to Krishna conciousness but it was done. I remember tribhuvantha prabhu telling us a story about how him and a few devotees were taking prabhupada around london, tribhuvantha prabhu proudly said to prabhupada that one of the queens gaurds gaurding the palace was srilaprabhupadas disciples, prabhupada took the comment and replied "what about the queen?" I agree we have to become serious and we have a long way to go but even one powerful devotee can do so much for the world. Mahaprabhus order was that we all become gurus, his prophecy that his names will be sung in every town and villiage which still has to be fullfilled the begining laid down by his divine grace. I heard that bhaktisiddhanta saraswati takhur used to go sleep with a map of london above his head. Prabhupada taught us to shoot for the rhino and similtanously become purified. He him self tried to persuade leaders and famous people writing letters (changing many) to them and wrote so much about how our governments should change he was convinced it could happen and wanted us to be convinced, his diciples were convinced and because of that they tried and got many famous guys to become KC, I think sometimes we lack faith in krishna and think someting is impossible from our small assesment of things. On the mundane level yes it seems impossible just like it would of seemed impossible for a 70 yearold man to spread krishna conciousness all over the world by engaging the lowest of the lowest. On the spritual platform nothing is impossible.
  24. Make sure you have a look at the video clip as well. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html
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