chandu_69

[url="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/member.php?u=17338"] If you have not noticed i have consistently refrained from quoting jesus christ.I am merely responding to the teachings of catholic church which is the subject you raised. I quoted 846 in response to your postng the 847 paragraph. . But this doesnt reflect in paragraph 846 of catechism? does it?.

I dont recall reading about the term kaafir in hindu theology. And for your question what "we hindus" call muslims; we just call them muslims or mohammedans.Do you have any objection??. Btw did u find out the meaning of the terms kaafir, "darlu harb" darul islam" as raised in the article ?.

yes your post 21 is about catechism paragraph 847 and i posted 846.Where are u confused??? where is the ploemics from my side??.I merely copy pasted paragraph 846. the difference between vatican 1 and 2 is that of immunity provided on acount of being not exposed to church. Those who are aware of church but chose to remain outside of church are not saved.This point is eloquently described in paragraph 846.Where is the question of interpretation here???.

They are appealing to India muslim clerics.That is the point.But, they wont be getting any response.

The vanaras("ape-like humanoids") of ramayana; they surely must be a species in between apes and men.

Dharma, yes and not religion.Not following dharma in this context is encroaching on other people's property and rights.That is the point. Nobody was attacked because he was not worshipping krishna.

<table border="0" bordercolor="#000000" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="boxborder001" colspan="4" style="padding-top: 15px;" valign="top"> Purely on the basis of Catechism of the Catholic Church: "Outside the Church there is no salvation" 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?³³⁵ Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This is "vatican 2"-http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm\ Nothing changed much dear catholic

The mahabharata war is not on account of somebody not worshipping some god.Get it.No unbeleiver is attacked for being an unbeleiver.

But i think it will clear up lots of things, if any response is forthcoming.

Hmmm, i will remember this point and the flight analogy you made in the earlier pages. primate has already abandoned his scientific thing and that means you wont be getting anything from him:D.

sorry, i got carried away.i meant to reinforce the point that the world should take notice why a certain paarsurrey behaves the way he does.

The said person is born in to islam,theresnt any choice there.Who gives a damn whether you(theist) take koran seriously or not.The point i am trying to make is paarsurrey is merely following his holybook when it comes to what he wrote.That is a simple observation on which you are doing lot of unnecessary hair splitting.

What you said is mostly true.But you people have the "new covenant" from jesus christ.There are some elements in christianity that take the OT seriously and you have problems here and there.

It has got nothing to do with his(Paarsurrey) personal preferences.He is just following his holy book .It is also his religious duty to tell christians that they are wrong in worshipping jesus

You can find plenty of spice:P if u get deeper in to paar surrey's(The initiator of this thread) objection to worshipping jesus. Quran explicitly condemns worshipping jesus as evidenced in verse 9:30 Quran 9.30 : The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

A group of Hindu leaders on Wednesday appealed to Islamic religious institutions and scholars to come forward with an appropriate 'fatwa' (edict) to declare that Hindus were not 'kaafirs' (non-believers) and that there need not be a "jihad" (war) against them in India. "The fatwa should say that India is not 'Dar-ul-Harab', which means it is not a land against which Islamists have to wage a war," convener of the All India Acharya Sect Dayanand Maharaj told journalists in Mumbai on Wednesday. Speaking at a seminar, Dayanand said our country is a 'dar-ul-amen', a land of peace, as here Muslims could practise Islam without any impediment. In his speech, Janata Party President Subramanian Swamy said Pakistan is on its way to "Talibanisation" with support from its military, which is set to take over power. "The armed forces that are powerful in Pakistan and hand in glove with Taliban forces are planning to take over Pakistan's regime in the next couple of years which would be dangerous for India," Swamy said. Among the other prominent leaders who were present at the two-day seminar included Sri Jayendra Saraswati of Kanchi Mutt, All India Akhada Parishad chief Hansadas Saraswati, Dharma Raksha Manch (DRM) convener and Akhada Parishad's president Mahant Gyan Das Maharaj and VHP international president Ashok Singhal. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=NLetter&id=913e3cc9-ddd7-4723-b364-b69accbcdef4&&Headline=Hindu+leaders+for+%27fatwa%27+against+%27jihad%27+in+India

While you continue discussions with raghu i am just curious to know whether you see some parallel between monism and "sufi islam".

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=22676&prog=zgp&proj=zsa Testimony to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, January 28, 2009: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Senator Collins, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for your invitation to testify on the recent terrorist attacks in Bombay (Mumbai) and their consequences for the United States. As requested by the Chairman and Ranking Member in their letter of invitation, I will focus my remarks on assessing the regional and global threat posed by Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the implications of that threat for the U.S. homeland, and the status of U.S.–India cooperation on counterterrorism and homeland security. I respectfully request that my statement be entered into the record. .... Of all the terrorist groups present in South Asia—and there are many—LeT represents a threat to regional and global security second only to al-Qaeda. .... Being an Ahl-e Hadith adherent of Sunni Wahabism, LeT seeks to establish a universal Islamic Caliphate with a special emphasis on realizing that dream through the gradual recovery of all lands that were once under Muslim rule. The strategic objective of inaugurating a universal Caliphate has made LeT a strong ideological ally of Al-Qaeda, while the emphasis on recovering “lost Muslim lands” in Asia and Europe has taken LeT to diverse places such as Palestine, Spain, Chechnya, Kosovo and Eritrea. That LeT is a constituent member of Osama bin Ladin’s International Islamic Front should not be surprising given that one of its three founders, Abdullah Azzam of the International Islamic University in Islamabad, was closely associated with Hamas and has been widely described as one of bin Ladin’s religious mentors. Together with Hafiz Saeed, the LeT’s current amir, and Zafar Iqbal of the Engineering University, Lahore, Azzam formed LeT in 1987 as the armed wing of the Markaz Dawat-ul Irshad (MDI), the Center for Proselytization and Preaching, which sought to actualize the universal Islamic state through tableegh (preaching) and jihad (armed struggle). .......The LeT’s initial focus on Afghanistan is significant because it refutes the common misapprehension—assiduously fostered since the early 1990s—that the group has always been a part of the indigenous Kashmiri insurgency. Nothing could be further from the truth.... ......Hafiz Saeed wholeheartedly endorsed the objective of destroying India writ large. Asserting in a 1999 interview that “jihad is not about Kashmir only,” he went on to declare that “about fifteen years ago, people might have found it ridiculous if someone told them about the disintegration of the USSR. Today,” he continued, “I announce the break-up of India, Inshaallah. We will not rest until the whole [of] India is dissolved into Pakistan.” In a later 2001 statement, he reaffirmed the proposition that “our struggle will continue even if Kashmir is liberated.....

The sole purpose of this fellow is to spam this forum. i exposed this fraud who goes by the id sambya at http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/449697-marriages-gods-3.html. a careful reading of his posts especially this comment("surely there can be no contradictions in one single book for it would have been always under scrutiny of one single person") reveals where he is coming from.

It is clearly a complex subject; the relation between father and his only begotten son.Whether the father and son are one and the same or different entities etc. In my opinion it is more fruitful to talk about the message of jesus, spiritually speaking.

Yes, i know; but the position is still the same(almost).Times have not changed that much .

. Hi there.Your statement about salvation caught my eye and couldnot resist jumping in .Is this statement backed up by christian theologists?.The official position of christian clergy appears to be exactly opposite to what you stated on this subject. take a look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_Nulla_Salus Quote" The Latin phrase Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means: "Outside the Church there is no salvation". This expression comes from the writings of Saint Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the third century. The axiom is often used as short-hand for the doctrine, upheld by both the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, that the Church is absolutely necessary for salvation "unquote here is a christian website that says " “Outside the Church there is no salvation” is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it: “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.) “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.) “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her" http://catholicism.org/category/outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation

Obviously you havent read closely what i wrote.i said armed conflict was unviable at that time. By his grace .You should have read what winston churchill said abt gandhi and his views on giving independence to india.Grace and he miserably failed in protecting millions of lifes for his concept of ahimsa.Ahimsa from bhagwadgita???.. ohh pls excuse me and dont bother to reply. ofcourse it is crap thanks for agreeing with me.But Gandhi said it quote" In a post-war interview in 1946, he offered a view at an even further extreme: "The Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi the same attitude of Mahatma the gandhi made millions lose their life and thousands of women get raped and burnt alive.But you can keep admiring and loving gandhi.Kindly dont bother to reply my posts.

offtopic, but relevent.

Good,there was no other alternative of fighting the mighty british empire.Gandhi was succesful because he knew how to exploit the sentimentality of the british.Btw british would have left sooner or later gandhi just hastened the process.proof;british left all the occupied countries.there were no gandhi equivalent's in other occupied countries. Gandhi obviously comeoff from his high horse of nonviolence probably after his debacle in containing the india partition violence started by muslims to get islamic country.Read the article at the end of this post. Who said israel is a white knight? You should patiently read this article about the fundamentalistic pacific nature of gandhi here-http://islamicterrorism.wordpress.com/category/mahatma-gandhi/ and specifically-Gandhi's Way Isn't the American Way Collective suicide is no foreign policy.( http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTM1NTg1YjFhMGE5MzZjZDUzNzNhNzdkMjE2YmEyNTY) quote" At what point is it okay to fight dictators like Saddam or the al Qaeda terrorists who want to take his place? It turns out that the answer, according to Gandhi, is NEVER. During World War II, Gandhi penned an open letter to the British people, urging them to surrender to the Nazis. Later, when the extent of the holocaust was known, he criticized Jews who had tried to escape or fight for their lives as they did in Warsaw and Treblinka. “The Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife,” he said. “They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.” “Collective suicide,” he told his biographer, “would have been heroism.”