ranjeetmore

you said none of the vishnu avatars cud retain Their bodies.WHAT IGNORANCE you display. God,His saints,His leelas are all on the plane of yogmaya.When any of these appear in frnt of us,we label it as the work of maya,simply becoz our senses are mayic... As 4 the avatars retaining their body,all DO RETAIN THEIR BODY.they are chit svarupa..you CANNOT DESTROY BHAGWANS BODY COZ ITS NOT MAYIC.its indestructible.God is absolute.His name IS THE SAME AS GOD HIMSELF.,so when a liberatd persn chants krsna,the infinite magnitude of Krsna/ananda is realised by him... Acording to u,Ramkrshna paramhamsa is God....let me remind u,he became OLD...what are u,5 ? God doesnt bcme old.duh.

vs.sunder...v are talking about prasadam to Bhagwan.,.that means this falls under bhakti section...plz do not talk bout 3rd class yoga sadhnas,tapas,meditation etc...go and glorify the charlatans whom u just mentioned to pple with low inteligence,who get atractd by bhasma yogi,fire yogi,water yogi,khopda baba who live for 300 years.DO NOT BRING UP SUCH PETTY THINGS HERE.

now let us focus on Acintya bheda bhed just briefly,coz i am frankly incapable to go into depth simply coz it was Bhagwan's own take on the brahm sutra(remember Gauranga Mahaprabu ?). Jeev is sanatan.Brahm is sanatan.Maya is sanatan(beginingless.) Brahm is chit svarup.Jeev is chit.Maya is jada. Brahm is vibhu(infinite).Jeev is anu(atomic.) Brahm is controlr.(niyamak/shasak) Jeev is controlld(shasya/niyamit) Brahm pervades entire existence,spiritual as well as material(sarvavyapak).jeeva pervades one single body(alpavyapak).(boo hoo mayavadis who say they are Brahm.) Brahm creates,maintains and destroys material creation.Jeev rotates in the cycle of birth and death. Brahm controls maya.Jeev is under maya. Brahm inspires.Jeev is inspired. All said,Brahm is cit jeev is also cit. Brahm is sanatan,jeev is also sanatan. These 2 points of similarity and the infinite points of differences is calld simultaneous oneness and diffrence.(achintya bheda bhed).You can never becme Brahm,yet He is not senior to you and u both are of the same nature.Thats why at 1 place it is said,aham brahmasmi.(i am brahm.)But 1 shud also take into acount that jeeva is ansh of jeev-vishisht-brahm and thus ''aham brahmasmi''

aadi Shankaracarya(whm i shal adress as A.S. Henceforth) Wrote a hoax commentary on the brahm sutra knwn as Advait. First,let us go thru the vedic version AS IT IS. Brahm,jeev maya.3 principles have been enumeratd in the veda. Brahm is the controller,inspirational entity,governor whereas Jeev is controld,inspired and governed by Brahm. Brahm has an inferior energy-maya,whatever we see around us is jada/mayic. Vedas also describe the marginal position of jeeva tattva.Jeeva tattva is that tattva between maya,brahm's inferior energy and His superior energy(which can be identified by Brahm Himself). Being a marginal entity,the jeevatma is subject to control either by maya or by yogmaya(Superior energy),depending on his choice,Preya or shreya marga. All this is the vedic version.

prince goutham...plz preach ur 'concept' to fairies in ur gaga land,becoz in reality,it dosnt hold true... As 4 ashok,what is YOUR PROBLEM ! YOU GO TO EVERY THREAD AND YOU APPLY YOUR MAYIC INTELLIGENCE..,any chance you wil be leaving us soon ? Sarva gattah,..excellent..just excellent post on prasadam... There's just 1 thing..when pple who do not knw the gravity and the reality of all things related to krsna,they cme and degrade the beauty of it by applying their 3rd class inteligence...2 pple hav managed to do just that..not ur fault.... And serinusly,i loved those quotes.. Radhe radhe

vedavyas also acepts, ''shabda bramh su durgodham praneindriyamanomayam, Ananta baram gambhiram durvigha:yam samutravat.'' Veda is shabd brahm...(ananta baram gambhiram) you read it,peruse it infinite times,but it wil just be like measuring an infinite ocean's depth with a 3 metre stick.You wil say,the ocean is 3 meters deep becoz 3 metres of the stick is wet.But the actual answer is very difrent. Conclusion: DO NOT OPEN THE VEDAS,UPANISHADS.,WORSE,DO NT TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEM. _______ moderator's note: After twenty one pages and over four hundred posts, it seems there is just back and forth arguing, creating bad feelings. So, we will close this thread. Please try to start and contribute to threads, that may attract others to your understandings, in a positive way.

this means u have taken the upanishads,opened them and convertd the sanskrit and read them..wow...u did all that with what ? With your intelligence.I am sory to awaken u,bt ur inteligence is material,every1's is...the subject matter of veda is spiritual.If u believe that u can understand spiritual matters with your brain,wich is material,then u must change ur beliefs... Vedvyas said, ''prarokshvado vedoyam balanamanushasanam.'' Paroksh vaad is the nature of vedas.It cannot be undestood by material intelect. He also says,''vedo bramatm vishaya''. The vedas are Brahmsvarup.We cant even percieve our mind,which is material.How can u percieve Brahm with ur faulty senses and intelect.You cannot.Since you cant undestand Brahm,u cant understand the vedas.Period.

these facts are not corroborated in any tradition,be it smarta,shaivite or shakta..Even advaitins cannot explain certain vedic verses such as, ''He has thousands of heads,eyes,hands and legs evrywhere.'' Their brahm is formless.But we knw how garbhodakshayi Vishnu enters every single material universe and pervades the entire jagat.This 4 handed Narayana form is identified by Vedavyas as the Paramatma feature. Vedvyas,the highest authority on the vedas writes,''the supreme truth is realised in 3 aspects,Brahm,paramatma and Bhagwan.Brahmjyoti is the formless spiritual effulgence that pervades the entire spiritual sky just as the sun rays pervade the material sky.The material creation being situated in the spiritual sky as a small cloud,is also pervaded by the formless Brahmjyoti.This Brahmjyoti is the goal of jnyanis(shankaracharya).The second feature,Paramatma is the localised aspect of Godhead.He permeates evry atom in His personal form,the four handed Narayana.This Paramatma is the goal of yogis,who meditate upon Him in their mind's eye.The last word in Supreme truth is Bhagvan.He is the personal form of Godhead Himself.He is the goal of rasik saints of Vraja bhumi,ayodhya,mithila etc.''

now...who is Brahm? Brahm being the propreitor,controller and refuge of jeevatma,it is obvious that jeeva's original position is realised when he attaings brahm.Jeev,being an ansh of Ananda is always searching 4 ananda...Right nw,v are searching 4 happines in the material creation(marrying a woman,starting family,buying a car,eating this,hearing that...all 4 happiness.)But the vedas cal this preya marga.But many,in history as well as in present,work towards attaining brahm.This is cald shreya marga. When v attain Brahm ,v becme eternally happy.''sada paschyanti suryah tad Vishnu paramam padam.'' Those who achieve this position,after death,go to Vishnu's loka,where they reside eternaly,with ever increasing ananda.This is the real goal of evry single living entity.This is what vedic knwledge contains.There is no other higher truth.

then shankaracharya goes on,''sRI krsna,enter my heart and give ur mercy.'' Arey...just nw u said that brahm has no name and now you nominate Him as Sri Krsna..!wow. By logic v can refute that jeev is Brahm.This is becoz we are all under maya and the veda clearly states that maya is ashamed to stand in front of brahm(By this point,v can also refute that lord Shiva is God.Remember kaali mata danced on his body...naked ?She was hardly ashamed,nt to mention dancing on him.) So how come v are under maya,if v are Brahm. ? Also,if jeevatma is Brahm,how come he came under maya in the 1st place.Brahm controls maya ! She is the apara(inferior) shakti of Brahm.

the above two posts gave the vedic version of Brahm,whereas the Brahm you dscribe is that found in Shankaracharya's books... Now shankaracarya says,every1 is Brahm.rite ? But he also suports the vedic philosophy that,''no living entity can attain mukti unless he recieves the mercy of Brahm.'' But shankarachary was the 1 who stated so clearly that,''brahm has no energies.No form.no quality,no name,nothing.'' He himself says,''mere brahm,tum udaseen ho.''(Brahm,u are inert.) What a contradiction ! He earlier statd that the living entity needs mercy of brahm to eliminate maya and nw he says that,brahm,u cannot do anything ! He further says,''oh brahm,enter my heart and give me svarupa shakti i.e. Give me ur mercy.'' Lol,wat kind of jokes is Sri shankaracharya playing ? He himself has stated that evrything is Brahm.So why does he need to invoke Brahm 'enter my heart'? And brahm is inert.How wil it giv mercy to us ? kripaluji maharaj always gets a kick out of these inconsistencies,he says,''Mahapurush lok hai,kuch bhi bol dete hai(These are all saintly pple,they wil say anything)'' So the principle that jeev is Brahm is unaceptable.

1st..when the ved says that there is only Brahm.fine.But it doesnt entail its difrent energies.When it talks of a single Brahmn,it implies Brahm alongwith His difrent energies.All that there is,is brahm.fine.But brahm cant have energies? thats a faulty assumption made by a limited mind. 2nd. Then again the vedas declare that there are 3 principles.Brahm,jeev,maya. The ved further explains that the former is always the controller of the latter two.But all 3 principles have no beginning and hence,none of the 3 is older than the other two.While this is true,the jeeva tattva is ansh of jeeva-vishisht-brahm. And maya is maya-vishisht-brahm.Both of them,jeeva and maya,being energies of Brahm are referred to as above ...-vishisht-brahm. So when the veda connotes prakriti as Brahm,it is pointing towards Brahm itself,who controls prakriti and not prakriti,as a separate,independent entity.Same applies when brahm is calld ' jeeva'.(yes,the veda has cald the jeev as brahm.)Jeev being a chit(conscious) particle of brahm enjoys all the qualities of brahm as a whole,but in infinitesimally smaller quantities..e.g. Brahm is vibhu(infinite),jeev is anu(atomic).Brahm is Ananda,Jeev to is a particle of ananda(note the millions of jnanis who have attained self/jeeva realisation thruout history hav brutally refused even indraloka.That is the amount of happiness they attain in samadhi.but jeeva,being tatastha shakti,is subject to control by either maya or para shakti,yogmaya.As soon as the persn comes out of samadhi,maya cathes him again.Thats y the so cald jeevan muktas are not realy mukt)

kesavan,the Brahm concept u covered in ur post,lacked(no offense) the important definitions found in the upanishads. At 1 point,the veda does describe that there is only 1 tattva,that is Brahm.But the same upanishad further states ,there are two aspects of truth,bhram and jeeva.Then again further,it states that there are 3 principles,Brahm,jeeva, and maya.This is why only a mahatma has the right to read the veda.He understands its transcendental content alone. Every vedic scholar knws that maya is the inferior energy of Brahm.Seeing as we have no control,even in the slightest,over maya,it cannot be our inferior energy.by this logic,v can refute that jeeva is brahm.Hence,we shud acept that v all fall under the category of jeevas.The veda explains how jeeva is tatastha shakti of brahm.So how can a particle be the whole ? How can jeeva be paramatma.

yuck,that sounded so cheap frm ur mouth..... Its basic vaishnava(nephyte or advanced) etiquette to respect another 1,irespective of his lineage...thats what i expect frm a felow suporter of Vishnu tattva as supreme,when i cme to post here.Got it ? Ur losing it,asok.

which sampradaya do u folow,darkwarior ?

darkwarrior...i wud appreciate if u climbed down frm the plane where ur sampradaya rules over all that be...plz learn to tolerate atleast felow Pro-vaishnavas.It wud be a great favour.

how do v knw vedas r divine ? The vedas themselves declare. Why shud v acept it ? Becoz acepting such knwledge frm a authoritative source is cald shabda pramana.Shabda pramana is the highest method to gain knwledge.If u wish to find out through experiments who ur father is...ur free to do so.But it wud save you 1 billion years,if u simply asked your mother.Your mum,an authority,wil tel u that this persn is ur father.You acept her words.Shabda pramana. Similarly,the veda is the mother and Bhagwan is the father of all living entities...YOU HAVE TO ACEPT THE VEDAS.otherwise,no real discussion based on divinity can be held.

this is ridiculous...ashok,if u say that the vedas are 'someone's thots',then i cant hold sensical discusion with u.The vedas are uncreated and extol Sri Krsna alone...if u have views otherwise...plz go to one of the 4 authentic sampradayas.They eat smartas,shaivites,shaktas and mayavadis for breakfast... Vedas wer not WRITTEN BY AN AUTHOR.they wer scripted by vyasadeva...thats hw only vedas are of divine origin. Kripaluji maharaj says,''there is only 1 thing given in the vedas, And that is glorification of Shyamasundara.If some1 tells u diffrent'' he clearly declares,''bring him to me.(use mere paas leke aao.)''

darkwarrior,u confuse rudra with shiva.Thats naive.

ashok,that is so naive. God is Sat.chit.ananda. He is pure chit.How can u photograph Him ? As 4 pple who hav seen Him.There are billions throughout history.Go to vraja,many commune with God on a daily basis.You cant see God with Your present eyes.They are material,made of the 5 elements.How can u see a pure,spiritual entity with these faulty senses...i personaly havent seen God,bt i follow shabda pramana of mahapurush..They are God realised..you can ask them....and no,they wont tel you that God is niraakar,(if this is wat ur expecting as an answer).People who think God is formless are less intelligent.They feel form is inherent in the material creation and has no existence beyond it.But there can be a spiritual form just like there is a material form.The vedas state that the material creation is a reflection of the spiritual sky(paravyoma),just like mayadevi is a reflection of Ramadevi,the superexcellent,internal potency of Godhead.

the mahatma explains,with the help of the ved,shastras,that jeeva is an ansh of jeeva vishisht brahm and being so,his goal is Ananda/brahm. How to achieve ananda/brahm ? The genuine mahatma says that witout the mercy of Brahm,maya cant be eliminatd and thus bhagvad jnyan cant be attained. How to attain mercy of Bhagvan ? By devotional service cald bhakti. Any other process or way of thinking is just a concoction becoz Sri Bhagwan Himself confesses to Uddhav paramhamsa,that His 'vaani' i.e. 'Ved vaani' is meant to only point towards Him.Nothing else is given in the vedas,than the knwledge of Bhagwan. Uddhav then enquires how so many beliefs and philosophies came about ? Sri Bhagwan said,my ved vaani is transcendental,unfathomable.These pple took my vedic knwledge,twisted it and convertd it to for their own gain.Some were sattvic,some rajasic and others were tamasic.Depending on their nature,they took out the meaning of my transcendental knwledge in their own way.Thats y there are so many difrnt ways of religion

keshavan,u you seek refuge in a empiric speculator's philosophy?.. I challenge sigmund freud's philosophy. Love is never blind.You love sme1 becoz he/she gives you happiness..If ur mother wer to slap u today,wud u go and kiss her on the cheeks ? There is no unconditional love.And there is nothing cald as love energy.It is non existent,nt to say it is limited.When u r attachd to a person,u cal it love.Why this attachment? Bcoz that person gives u joy in return of happiness.Giv and take.Shaivites 'love' Rudra,shiva coz they see the destructive nature of the deity and r attractd to it.After all,tamo guni pple lik destruction.Similarly,pple 'love' other deities 4 their own beliefs.If that deity fits in that person's way of thinking,he is immediately attractd.But a certain handful of pple come across genuine mahatmas and the mahatma explains who is jeeva,brahm and maya.Nw that the persn knws who he is and what is his goal(brahm),he wil obviously work towards that goal. E.g...the followers of the 4 sampradayas.

and gr8 god rudra,hav u forgotten Lord Hanuman ? His service to Sri Bhagvan ? How he ripped his chest to show that he saw the entire world as Seeta Ram ? Tulsidas describes how his spiritual master,Hanuman would simply see Sita Ram in every atom ! Hanuman wasnt hallucinating.he was seeing Godhead in His paramatma feature.evrywhere ! This is how he cud kill crores of pple.Tulsidas writes a beautiful verse in this regard. And hanuman is nitya siddha.He is 4ever a servant of the Supreme lord.He is an incarnation of lord Shiva.You very well describe how the various incarnations worshipd lord Shiva.Apart frm being a leela of the Lord,did any of these incarnations tear their chest with yogmaya ? Did any of these leave their wives,like lord shiva left sati,coz she was hindering his devotional process toward lord Ramachandra ? No.

he further describes Parabhramn, ''Ram hai naam tumhar, Vachan agochar buddhi para... Binu hari bhajan na bhav tareeya, Yeh siddhant apela.'' That brahmn's name is Sri Ram.He is BEYOND your buddhi ! Do nt try to understand Him with ur intellect !

thank u amlesh 4 putting words frm my mind in ur post.., Jai siya Ram... Tulsidas gosvami says, Taraee na !Bin Seye mam swami.. Ram namami namami namami. Its my challenge,gosvami says,that NO ONE can cross the material ocean of birth and death without serving his master,Sri Ramacandra.