Guruvani

It's this kind of rhetoric that fuels the offense skirmish.

Rhetoric?

Abusing out-dated instructions to serve a personal agenda of personal ambition is the real rhetoric going on with this topic.

It appears to me also that is who he is referring to. My question also is just how many account/personalities can you have on this forum?

Several if you know how to use proxy servers and mask your IP address.

There are a couple of clowns on here who do that.

I never do that, I can say that honestly.

But he gives me the creeps. Ill go somewhere else until hes gone. Im sick of his mememe crap

Mahak,

Don't let this pud get under your skin.

Just ignore him.

But, I do know what you mean.

Some of these guys make me want to just stay off this forum.

I have probably run off a few people myself, but I can't do anything about that.

I am going to say my piece whether anyone likes it or not.

Instructions are out-dated. Nice. The ones you want to follow are up-to-date of course. It's this kind of rhetoric that fuels the offense skirmish.

You are talking out your ass now.

Anyone with a little intelligence can understand that.

Even the GBC eventually came to accept that recent instructions out-date previous instructions.

Your asinine position does not represent the GBC or Srila Prabhupada.

It represents a puffed-up fool who is protecting his pride and his false ego.

I'm not the least interested from which camp the slurs are coming.

In the light of Prabhupada's clear instructions, ISKCON members are cautioned NOT to associate, or associate with great caution. If that is apharada then Prabhupada was an apharadi.

Srila Prabhupada's last instructions about Srila Sridhar Maharaja was that he told the BBT editors that if they had any questions about the philosophy that they should ask Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

Obviously, his tone and his tune changed completely about Srila Sridhar Maharaja after he sorted out the situation about which Godbrothers were behind him and which ones were against him.

I'm not the least interested from which camp the slurs are coming.

In the light of Prabhupada's clear instructions, ISKCON members are cautioned NOT to associate, or associate with great caution. If that is apharada then Prabhupada was an apharadi.

You are abusing the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.

His most recent instructions regarding Srila Sridhar Maharaja reflect a much different position towards Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

Quit abusing out-dated instructions to satisfy your false ego and false pride.

It is also a fact that if we follow the chronological sequence of Srila Prabhupada's instructions and accept that recent instructions override previous instructions, we will have to conclude that the latter statements of Srila Prabhupada concerning Srila Sridhar Maharaja negate and post-date the letter to Rupanuga.

It is a big mistake to take old instrucions of Srila Prabhupada that have been out-dated by more recent instructions and use that statement to try and establish the position of Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada eventually expressed a different mood and position in regards to Srila Sridhar Maharaja, yet the offender group choose to ignore the most recent instructions and drag up old, out-dated statements that no longer represent the position of Srila Prabhupada.

These buffoons behind these letters today are a class of derelict offenders who will abuse Srila Prabhupada even for their own ambitions.

Srila Prabhupada tried to correct the situation but these idiots today won't let him.

It's a shame.

It's just a shame.

But, if we look at the most recent statements of Srila Prabhupada regarding Srila Sridhar Maharaja we will find something very different than that letter to Rupanuga.

 

Personally, I think that these kinds of statements by Srila Prabhupada have come home to roost in ISKCON and has engendered a class of absolute offenders that wantonly vilify, insult and demean some of the greatest Vaishnavas of the last century and this century.

I understand Srila Prabhupada's intentions and the situation he was in, but at this point in my life I can't help but feel that these statements went too far and as a result ISKCON is paying a high price.

This whole idea that we should respect Jesus and Mohammed but reject and abuse the Godbrothers of Srila Prabhupada just doesn't fly with me anymore.

Srila Prabhupada has written in his books that at times he was perplexed about how to exactly spread the KC movement.

I think in his perplexity he issued dated statements that eventually came back to bite ISKCON in the ass as a flock of Vaishnava aparadhis were produced out of a shallow and bigoted concept of Krishna consciousness.

I also think that to bring up these old letters today, some 30 years after the passing of Srila Prabhupada is a disgrace, an offense and a miserable attempt to justify the selfish ambitions of a class of neophyte ISKCON leaders who couldn't find their own ass if their life depended on it.

These letters are simply a disturbance to the progressive advancement of the KC movement that is also the right, the duty and the legacy of all of Srila Prabhupada's sincere Godbrothers.

These statements were simply a form of martial law that was enforced during a time of crisis.

When the crisis is over, the martial law must be lifted and freedom restored.

ISKCON wants to live under martial law forever.

However, that way of thinking is simply keeping ISKCON in shackles as the greater Gaudiya Vaishnava society expands all over the world leaving ISKCON in the dust of days gone by.

"Maybe most of us are simply not ready to understand this". This is simply untrue of Srila Sridhar Maharaj and your opposing posters on this forum. WE DO UNDERSTAND THIS. What you are saying is a spiritual fact and is stated in Caitanya Caritamrta, nitya siddha krsna prema, sadhya naya. Any intellegent observer can see that this is not the point of contention. The point of contention is over, HOW THE NITYA SIDDHA VERSE IS APPLIED TO THE DEVOTIONAL CONCLUSION. If we apply it the way you do then we must assume that the eternal parishads of Sri Krsna are just as fallable as the most wretched (or dreaming he is wretched) jiva. Aside from the preaching or introductory level of Krsna Consciousness, the real levels of confindential devotional service focus more on bhakti towards the parishads of the Lord. The way in which the Sleeper-vadis apply the illusion of time concept minimizes the postion of the parishad bhaktas and thereby destroys the concept of real guru and vaisnava bhakti and ultimately it opposes the underlying concepts of Rupanuga bhakti. Consequently Sleeper-Vada is apa-sampradaya and imitation Krsna Consciousness.

I think there needs to be some clarification about the meaning of this verse:

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 22.107

 

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

SYNONYMS

nitya-siddha — eternally established; kṛṣṇa-prema — love of Kṛṣṇa; sādhya — to be gained; kabhu — at any time; naya — not; śravaṇa-ādi — by hearing, etc.; śuddha — purified; citte — in the heart; karaye udaya — awakens.

 

 

TRANSLATION

"Pure love for Kṛṣṇa is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens.

 

It appears that some devotees are taking the meaning of this verse and specifically the words "nitya-siddha" to mean that the conditioned jiva is actually nitya-siddha.

However, the verse is NOT saying that.

If we look at the way the term nitya-siddha is translated we will find that it does not translate as eternally liberated but rather as eternally established.

The verse is NOT saying that the jiva is eternally liberated.

Rather it is saying that krishna prema is eternally established in the heart of the living entity.

I think that the idea that this verse is saying that the conditioned souls are nitya-siddha is just not correct.

If we read the whole verse and translation in context we will NOT find that the verse is saying that the living entity is eternally liberated, but that the living entity eternally has love of Krishna established in the heart. Though, we know that such Krishna prema must be awakened through devotional service.

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There is absolutely no shastric basic to support that guru's murti is alive just like Vishnu tattva Deities are alive. </td></tr></tbody></table>

I seriously doubt that you are so familiar with all the shastra that you can make such a claim.

The best you can do is say that there is nothing you know of in shastra about it.

To make a claim that there is NOTHING in all the shastra about it is of course an unqualified claim as you will have to admit that you don't know Sanskrit or Bengali or ALL the shastra of the Gaudiyas.

The meaning of murti is -

embodiment , manifestation , incarnation , personification

What is that photo? Ha Ha next Guruvani will be telling us he doesn't believe in Ghosts and hobgoblins and that they are just fairytales

I believe in ghosts.

But, you are not up to that level yet, so I don't believe in you.

I am a warlock.

Haven't you noticed.

How about them nightmares you are having?

HAHAH...... TEHEHE....

I AM the BOOGEYMAN!

I just want to remember what this thread is all about, great story and anology that tells the difference between Personalism and Impersonalism

the most demonic of all impersonalist is the impersonalist who says that Krishna parshada nitya-siddhas become impersonal to Krishna and leave his service for petty sense enjoyment in the material wolrd.

Now, that is an IMPERSONALIST who says that Krishna is so miserable that his parshadas are abandoning him by the billions at every moment.

Sicko!!!

sicko dude.... you are a mental case.

Who screwed your head up so bad?

Can you tell us who did this to you?

 

 

Beggar, Guruvani and co do you guys have any idea of Vedic Knowledge, aparantly not?

 

 

One thing we know for sure; you are NOT Drutakarma das.

At least he knows how to spell "apparently".

You are some poor chump from Australia with an 8th grade education.

We know who you are.

You are just a bug flying around the ISKCON porch light.

 

 

Beggar, Guruvani and co do you guys have any idea of Vedic Knowledge, aparantly not?

 

 

 

And the fellow who can't even spell "apparently" is going to tell us all about Vedic knowledge?

You need to finish middle school first.

Then, come teach us about Vedanta.

You are borderline illiterate and you are the guy that knows all about Vedanta?

You are funny.

Very, very funny.

Hahaha - tehehehe!!!!

so far only one sleepervadi took up the challenge. Let me repeat the question:

 

WHAT IS THAT LIGHT COMING OUT OF YOGI'S HEAD?

from what I have heard about sleepervadi siddhanta, they would say it is the SECONDARY PROJECTED-SELF of the jiva who is snoozing in Goloka.

There is absolutely no shastric basic to support that guru's murti is alive just like Vishnu tattva Deities are alive. Prabhupada's murti is simply a symbolic representation of our acharya.

so, Prabhupada approved of idol worship?

Ok, I see now.

Are you kidding us or what? Have you gone off the deep end?

Yes, he went off the deep end of the Viraja.(causal ocean)

That is the ocean of maya and the dream that we are actually in Goloka suffering from illusion.

Here is the sweet sound my heart longs for.

http://www.lisalynne.com/audio/loveandpeace_angelofmercy.mp3

think of Krishna the flute player and Radha on her stringed instrument when you listen.

I cry...... and cry and cry....

Is it Aparadha if you don't worship Prabhupada's Godbrothers equally with Krishna?

It is not aparadha to not worship them as equal to Srila Prabhupada or Krishna, but is it aparadha to not give them the proper respect and honor that they deserve as sincere, dedicated Vaishnavas whom in my estimation are all far above and beyond any of the ISKCON upstarts who have been insulting and abusing them for the last 30 years.

You don't have to worship them.

But, respect and honor is minimum to avoid Vaishnava aparadha.

They dragged Srila Prabhupada into their may 28 meeting to ask him for clarification. He tells them. Then Tamal grabs the chair with his sanskrit term, the new buzz word

But, your theory falls apart when we read the letters that Srila Prabhupada wrote to Hansaduta refering to him as ritvik on a couple of occasions.

It was the letter to Hans where Srila Prabhupada more-or-less confided in him about the "sinister evil movement" as if to enlist Hans in a role of helping to stop the "sinister evil movement".

So, if Tamal did invent "ritvik" for ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada took it up himself and used the term himself reminding Hans of his duty to represent him and push forward the ISKCON mission.

So, it appears that Srila Prabhupada enrolled one of the top ISKCON tough guys (Hans) in helping to bring down the "sinister evil movement".

It's kind of interesting that nowadays Hans is a fervent proponet of ritvik system for ISKCON.

I think in the end Hans found it in himself to abandon the ISKCON fraud party and stand up for what he truly understands to be the will of Srila Prabhupada.

I have it from a good source that in LA in 1970, Srila Prabhupada was "kept" in a room at the LA asrama for at least a few days, not allowed out, and on rationed diet, during which time "negotiations" occured

I heard that story too.

But, my guess is that if it really happened Srila Prabhupada was just hanging in there knowing that he had enough sincere disciple in ISKCON that would eventually catch on to the conspiracy and come bust him out of confinement and arrest the evil-doers.

A couple of conspirators could not hold out forever surrounded by hundreds of devotee servants of Srila Prabhupada.

They would have been fools to even think they could pull that off in ISKCON with so many other followers who would have even killed them had they found out that such a situation was occuring.

one sanyassi putting the word "rtvik" into srila prabhupadas mouth.

I don't buy that.

Tamal didn't really know diddly about Sanskrit.

My best guess is that Tamal had previously inquired from Srila Prabhupada what the Sanskrit word for these representatives of Srila Prabhupada would be and that Srila Prabhupada told "ritvik".

Because these representative initiations had been going on is ISKCON for several years.

I am sure that Tamal, even if with sinister motives, wanted to know what these proxy initiators would be known as in the Sanskrit terminology. (hoping to stump Srila Prabhupada thinking that there is no such thing as a proxy initiator)

Nobody will ever convince me that Tamal came up with the term "ritvik".

Tamal wouldn't know ritvik from dipstick.

I have no doubts that Srila Prabhupada had used the term before in instructing Tamal and that Tamal was just remembering how Srila Prabhupada had referred to these proxy initiators previously.

My guess is that Tamal was trying to prove to Srila Prabhupada that there is no such thing as proxy initiation because he wanted to establish that himself and his ISKCON buddies would become guru after the death of Srila Prabhupada.

Sure, I am speculating or you could say following my intuition, but Tamal didn't invent the ritvik term for ISKCON and anybody that says Srila Prabhupada was letting Tamal run the show is a fool.

Good work Sherlock Siva.

Now, I have an idea of what the "great sinister movement" was all about.

Sounds like some misunderstanding though.

I find it hard to believe that Brahmananda actually had sinister motives in whatever he was doing that appeared to be evil.

Maybe I am just naive, but I always thought that Brahmananda was very devoted and sincere to Srila Prabhupada, even though his senses got the better of him in Africa and his tongue got way out of control.

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Regarding the poisonous effect in our Society, it is a fact and I know where from this poison tree has sprung up and how it affected practically the whole Society in a very dangerous form. But it does not matter. Prahlada Maharaja was administered poison, but it did not act. </td></tr></tbody></table>

Can somebody tell me exactly what the "great sinister movement" was and what the "poison" was that Srila Prabhupada referred to?

I don't know anything about that particular situation.

Why was he questioning the whereabouts of Krsna das and Symasundar?

Did anyone actually figure out what that "great sinister movement" actually was?