Guruvani

Bhaktivinoda - The Bhagavat:

Grasshopper..... you cannot find your soul in the Vedabase search.

Grasshopper...... go deeper......find the truth...... find your soul that is brighter than the Sun.

Don't tell untruth grasshopper. It is beneath your dignity!

close, but no cigar.... keep searching grasshopper! You haven't found the secret yet!

What do you think?

Take that straw man and tear him to pieces like a Pitbull! Now, Theist is telling me what I meant when I said something. If you can show me where I EVER said that we are in Goloka dreaming please do. All devotees know that conditioned living beings are in a dreaming condition. I have always understood that. You are trying to say that previously I was babbling sleepervadi philosophy. Sleepervadi philosophy is based on the idea that we are in Goloka under the spell of maya and dreaming. I have NEVER said that and I totally and absolutely reject that idea. What I do know and do accept is that, yes, we are dreaming in illusion. But, where you are trying you to say that I ever advocated the sleepervadi philosophy is just a cheap shot to try and make me out to be contradicting previous statements. I don't need some chump on this forum to tell me that conditioned jivas are in a sleeping condition. I knew that from the first time I read Bhagavad-gita As-It-Is. What I have never believed or advocated is that we, the conditioned souls, are in Goloka and dreaming. What I have always understood from the books of Srila Prabhupada is that conditioned jivas are "sleeping in the lap of the witch called maya". We are not sleeping in Goloka and imagining that we are worms in stool in the material world. We are in the material world dreaming that we are lords of the material energy. So, Theist doesn't play fair. He is a cheater. He tries to prove that I have at one time supported the "sleepervadi" philosophy. I never have. We are in the material world dreaming and sleeping in the lap of maya. We are not in Goloka in the grips of illusion. According to the Vaishnava siddhanta it is impossible to be in Goloka and become influended by maya. It is impossible. We are in the material world having the dream we are not servants of Krishna. So, go get'em tiger. Take your homemade straw man and tear him to shreds. The fact that you have to resort to such cheap shots is just all the more proof you yourself are a "sleepervadi" from the ISKCON kindergarten college.

I have never watched that show ever. I don't go for drama. I like news, fights and educational stuff. They would have to pay me to watch the Sopranos. I hate New Jack City drama. How about Dirty Jobs? Or, the Myth Busters? The myth busters are my heros!!

Of course, like all broad generalizations, it is ultimately impersonal.

Don't get me started on the UFC. Randy Couture is the man! Chuck has lost his last two fights. I hope Rich Franklin can get his belt back this month in Cincinnati. UFC rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Hershey Bars and others' wives are minor issues compared to the vilification of such great Vaishnavas. It appears that the fall-from-goloka fairytale is closely linked to the adversaries of such great Vaishnavas. So, the fairytale won't hold you back at all. But, the vilification of great Vaishnavas certainly will. p.s. I plead guilt to the TV anartha. But, I don't care for movies or sitcoms. I like Discovery, History Channel and the Travel Channel. When there is a good UFC fight on SPIKE TV you can bet I am glued to the TUBE. That will get me away from battling the sleepervadis everytime.

Like I have said before, I will say it again, yes, we are dreaming. We are in the material world dreaming, not in Goloka dreaming. You have manufactured the idea that we are in Goloka dreaming when actually the message of the shastra is that we are in the material world dreaming. Your idea that we are in Goloka dreaming is truly laughable. Anyway, these things are just interesting issues to discuss and debate, but ultimately Krishna is only looking as your sincerity even if you have some mixed-up ideas about this fall-from-goloka fairytale. It doesn't make you a bad devotee. It's just a little bit of a philosophical misunderstanding you have. At least you are thinking about Krishna consciousness ideas. That is the most important thing. I am not a finished professor and I can and do make mistakes. But, on this one I think you are confused.

Obviously, this kind of situation shows and proves that in ISKCON the GBC is over and above the gurus. Otherwise, this "sannyasi" would be concerned about whether or not his "guru" Kirtanananda Swami wants him to accept disciples. Usually, a disciple does not accept disciples as long as his own spiritual master is still present in the world and accepting disciples himself. If the person actually accepts Kirtanananda Swami as his guru, then why don't he ask his guru if he should accept disciples? If he doesn't respect Kirtanananda Swami as worthy of that authority then why doesn't he accept re-initiation from someone he does respect? This is the kind of thing that just makes ISKCON into a laughing stock of the Vaishnava world. When there are senior sannyasis of Srila Prabhupada available to initiate devotees then why are oddball disciples of Kirtanananda Swami begging for the GBC to throw them a bone and give them the GBC rubber stamp of approval? What a joke. What a mess. What a shame.

check out this website. It might have some answers. I am not a Shaiva, so I don't study the teachings. Maybe you can find some answers here: http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/rudraksha.htm OM Namo Shivaya

So, the pure devotees in Vaikuntha are "contaminated souls"? You need to read what the statement is actually saying, not just what you want it to say. What it means is that even if a contamianted soul goes to Vaikuntha he cannot stay. It doesn't mean that the pure devotees in Vaikuntha fall down, because Srila Prabhupada has already admitted that no one falls from Vaikuntha. But, if someone like Brhgu Muni enters Vaikuntha he cannot stay. He must return to his planet that is the highest planet in the universe below Satyaloka, ever higher than the Polestar Dhruvaloka where Lord Ksirodakshayi Vishnu resides in the ocean of milk. Brhgu can enter Vaikuntha, but he cannot stay because he is a jnani.

Lord Caitanya explained to Srils Rupa Goswami that the "svarupa" of the jiva is the form of a spirit spark. No word about any spiritual body in Goloka here in the teachings of Mahaprabhu. So, obviously, the fall-from-goloka fairytale does not accept the teachings of Lord Caitanya.

Mahaprabhu explained to Srila Rupa Goswami that the 'svarupa" of the jiva is a spark of life that is 1/10,000th the size the tip of a hair. He does not mention any spiritual body in Goloka. In the absolute realm the spiritual bodies of the devotees of Krishna are not different from their souls. Just as Krishna is non-different from his body or we could say is the body, the liberated pure devotees of Krishna in Goloka are not spirit sparks rather spiritual forms as gopis, gopas etc. So, the claim that the baddha-jivas of the material world have a spiritual body in Goloka already is not correct. That spiritual body is the manifestation of hladini and sandhini shakti which is awarded by Krishna via his internal potency. Spirit sparks are simply that - spirit sparks. There is no spiritual form in Goloka which they have forgotten about. In comparison to the mayavadi theory that the jiva becomes formless and becomes wholly one with the absolute brahman, the Vaishnava philosophy explains that the jiva has the form as a spirit spark and will continue to be an individual living being even after liberation. Mahaprabhu says quite plainly that the "svarupa" of the jiva is as a spirit spark. So, Mahaprabhu Sri Caitanya never taught that the jiva has a spiritual body in Goloka which the jiva has forgotten about. He says that the "svarupa" of the jiva is simply as a spirit spark. Anything beyond that is a fabrication. We call it the ISKCON "fairytale".

what the? I didn't post that five times.

<cite>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)</cite> - Cite This Source - <cite>Share This</cite> <!-- google_ad_section_start(name=def) --> for·give /fərˈgɪv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fer-giv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -gave, -giv·en, -giv·ing. –verb (used with object) <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">1.</td><td valign="top">to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve. </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">2.</td><td valign="top">to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.). </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">3.</td><td valign="top">to grant pardon to (a person). </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">4.</td><td valign="top">to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies. </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">5.</td><td valign="top">to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan. </td></tr></tbody></table> –verb (used without object) <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">6.</td><td valign="top">to pardon an offense or an offender.</td></tr></tbody></table>

Don Henley › The Heart Of The Matter

But, dollars and rupees are the same as gold. ISKCON, even under Srila Prabhupada was certainly not shy about trying to acquire this "green gold". If the gold is used for Krishna, then it not really "yellow stool". It is Laksmi Devi coming to serve Narayan? No?

I actually found a recipe for making gold on the web. It has since been taking down for some reason. I printed out the recipe. It is very interesting and is based on turning mercury into gold just as Srila Prabhupada mentions in his books. The formula is very scientific and sounds very plausible. The author claims to have turned small amounts of mercury into gold with this process. I haven't tried it yet. But, the process actually sounds like a very interesting possibility. The process does not use heat or fire.

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 7.72 purport,

Well.............. Srila Prabhupada followed more closely the dictionary or common usage of the term Veda. Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Introduction, So, actually, Srila Sridhar Maharaja was just giving the verbal root of the term Veda. His version was actually more strictly following grammatical rules than common usage. So, I accept both Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja's version. However, I think that "the end of all knowledge" is a more practical and common explanation of the term Vedanta than is "the end of know".

Me and you both. I am not a finished professor by any stretch of the imagination. Actually, I am learning new things all the time as I study and research these matters following my basic instinct about how the spiritual potency of Krishna is manifested in phases and different conditions. Madhavananda das has referred to my approach as ad-hoc. Well, for the most part he is correct. I am winging-it on Vedabase research and search. One thing I do know for sure is that I don't agree with the sleepervadi fall-from-goloka theorists who appear on this forum and more-or-less espouse the official ISKCON position which I am at odds with. The sleepervadi on this forum is probably just an ISKCON cronie who is not actually even serving in ISKCON, but his views do echo the official ISKCON position of the GBC and most of the gurus. So, I am challenging the conventional wisdom of ISKCON. I think there are some fairytales and myths that have taken on a life of their own outside and independent of the actual teachings in the books of Srila Prabhupada. None of the Gaudiya Matha acharyas or acharyas and disciples of classic Gaudiya parivars promote or accept the sleepervadi theory. It is an ISKCON anomaly that really needs to be corrected if ISKCON is to ever be respected as a genuine Gaudiya parivar.