Guruvani

Shakti-jnana is actually imperitive if we hope to remove ignorance about Lord Krishna. Some people say "we don't need any detailed discussion or investigation into origins". But, without seperately exploring the "orgins" issue, the understanding of shakti-jnana will remove all the myths and fairytales that are sometimes attached to the "origins" issue. Shakti-jnana is important for understanding Krishna.

Radharani is the personified hladini-shakti. All the gopis are extensions of Radha. They are not jivas.

This topic will explore the matter of understanding shakti-jnana. Without proper shakti-jnana all sorts of fairytales and myths sprout up due to ignorance of shakti-jnana.

Our original constitutional position was as a spirit spark in the glance of Maha-Vishnu. As such, the living entity is by nature part and parcel of Krishna and eternally a servant of the supreme controller. It is the most basic and fundamental of all the rasas; shanta-rasa. Mahaprabhu made it clear that upon attaining shanta-rasa one realizes his constitutional position. If by the blessings of Krishna's devotees you get the bhakta-lata-bija, then you can develop beyond that impersonal shanta-rasa with a higher rasa in an intimate relationship with Krishna that we have never had before. Nobody is with Krishna in Goloka and dreaming that he is a worm in stool in the material world. That is YOUR fabricated, concocted and misconceived fairytale that you are trying to push off as Gaudiya siddhanta. It is not!

I would go even farther to say that even one acharya does not have authority over another acharya. Even Lord Krishna does not interfere with the acharya. How can a GBC have power or authority over any acharya. Even if each and every member of the GBC was an acharya in truth, they would still not have authority over another true acharya. Originally, the seniormost respected Vaishnava of any given camp or community would be requested and petitioned by the other Vaishnavas of the community to lead the group. But, in ISKCON it's just a free-for-all of gurus all in competition with each other in total disregard of Gaudiya etiquette that senior Vaishnavas should be respected and recognized. It's a mess. They don't have a clue. They act like a bunch of rich kids plundering their inheritance on self-indulgence and risk-taking.

One of these days, if you ever get around to reading the shastra, you will find out that marginal potency does not exist in Goloka. You really don't know what you are talking about, although you present your babblings as if they are somehow shastric siddhanta. There is no marginal energy in Goloka. The marginal energy is manifested in the Viraja between the material and spiritual worlds. When a jiva become a liberated associate of Krishna he is no longer a marginal jiva. At that point he becomes manifested in Goloka via sandhini and hladini shakti - not tatastha shakti. If you started reading the books of Srila Prabhupada you could figure that out. But, since you refuse to do that and simply resort to some old letters to some neophyte disciples you will always remain on the same platform as the neophytes whose letters you have been reading as if those letters are superior to shastra. This is what ISKCON breeds. A class of shastric dropouts who use old letters of Srila Prabhupada instead of his books to establish the Gaudiya siddhanta. It's quite laughable that some devotees use the library of letters to try and understand the Gaudiya philosophy and ignore the books as if they are somehow lower than the letters.

How come the GBC says they have the power to remove a guru but not the power to appoint. They claim they only approve gurus not appoint them. But, if they cannot appoint a guru, then how can they have the power to remove a guru from ISKCON guru status? Obviously, the GBC guru system is an unprecedented breach of classic Gaudiya Vaishnavism where a guru or acharya was never under the scrutiny or jurisdiction a corperate managing body or any governing body commission. Whether or not such a guru system is legitimate or in line with Gaudiya siddhanta is very much up for question and is an issue that if really examined closely becomes very suspect. ISKCON has manufactured a new meaning and a new role for a guru or an acharya in the Gaudiya sampradaya as the subordinate of a managing committee. This of course completely violates the classic Gaudiya culture of the acharya being a direct representative of God and beyond any control or sanction of a corperate managing committee. ISKCON wants to have it's guru cake and eat it too! It's a typically neophyte response of a managing committee trying to fill the shoes of the acharya and not doing a very good job. The leading western devotees of ISKCON have successfully overthrown the spiritual monarchy of the great acharyas and replaced it with democratic oversight of the gurus of the KC movement. It hasn't shown a great success rate in the last 30 years.

You wouldn't even admit I was right even if you knew I was. It's against your policy to ever let me be right. Anyway, there are others on this forum that have the same understanding as I do about the issue in question. So, even if you won't admit that I am right, it really doesn't matter to me. You have made it your ambition to make sure you never agree with me on anything. So, your mind is closed and the shopkeeper is out to lunch!

You don't get it. The pure devotee is in Goloka consciousness. So, wherever he is he is in Goloka consciousness. You are guys are trying to say that Goloka becomes the material world for pure liberated devotees who rebel against Krishna. You guys are very confused.

Maybe you should blame Narottama das Thakur?

Actually, Vishvanatha Cakravrati Thakur is the one who wrote. So maybe you should blame it on him and not Gaudiya Math and ISKCON?

Narayana Maharaja has said on several occasions that he accepted Srila Prabhupada as his siksha-guru. So, I guess he can never get Krishna prema because he has accepted an offender as his siksha guru? Anyway, for those who don't appreciate what this person is accusing Srila Prabhupada of they can write to Narayana Maharaja and complain about his activities on this forum. here is Narayana Maharaja's email: bhaktivedantanarayana@purebhakti.com <bhaktivedantanarayana@purebhakti.com></bhaktivedantanarayana@purebhakti.com>

No. I don't have a list.

And, as usual, you are Mr. Answerman who has it all figured out. I don't run on myths. I study the books. Vigraha has built a whole new Gaudiya siddhanta off of some letters that Srila Prabhupada wrote to some goofs who were writing him and whining about things they couldn't understand.

You don't get the point. The material energy gets transformed into internal energy for the pure devotee. That doesn't mean that we are in Goloka. We aren't. We are in the material world, but for special devotees Krishna can make the material energy work like spiritual energy. That doesn't mean that we are in Goloka and dreaming. It's quite amuzing to see you struggle to defend the myth, even though you claim that you aren't a r to the myth. You are in the fairytale camp. But, you just won't admit it.

It's called "shastra-caksus". the self-realized souls see through the eyes of shastra. As such they know past, present and future according to what the shastra reveals. Otherwise, the omnipotence theory that some people have been touting is just a typical neophyte misconception that gets out of control and becomes siddhanta by repetition and self-deception.

A good example of that is the class of devotees who ignore shastra and suppose that the letters of Srila Prabhupada are somehow higher and more authoritative than shastra. Srila Prabhupada would be agast at devotees trying to undermine shastric siddhanta with the pablum siddhanta he sometimes taught struggling neophytes that were writting him and showing confusion and doubt. To try and salvage these confused disciples from the depths of maya, Srila Prabhupada offered them some remedial measures and watered things down a little to help them along with the hopes that maybe someday they could accept higher siddhanta. Now, there is a class of devotees who want to take these letters and trump shastra as if these letters to some stuggling neophytes are on a higher platform than Srimad Bhagavatam or CC. It's quite disconcerting to see how these letters of Srila Prabhupada are being abused to postulate bogus siddhanta that contradicts the shastra and all the predecessor acharyas including Srila Jiva Goswami. A lot of the propaganda is just an attempt defend the GBC and ISKCON gurus who have been teaching sub-siddhanta for the last 30 years.

Obviously, you don't study shastra. The material world is only a dream to dreamers like you. For the pure devotee of Krishna the material world is not an illusion or material. For the pure devotee, the whole material world is the kingdom of God. It is a dream world to you because you are obviously in illusion and incoherent with the shastric siddhanta. Krishna converts the material energy into spiritual energy for his pure devotee. For devotees like Srila Prabhupada this material world is no different than Vrindavan. For devotees like you, it is all just a fairytale land.

You can't read? If Krishna can turn external material energy into internal potency then he can certainly turn the superior marginal energy into internal energy. It is all the same energy of Krishna. It is only internal, external or marginal depending on how and where it is employed. There is NO marginal energy in Goloka. The only marginal energy is manifested at the marginal plane between the material and spiritual worlds. When the jiva enters Goloka he is no longer marginal. The jiva is only marginal when he is between the external and spiritual potencies. With the blessings of hladini shakti which is acquired through cultivating devotional service then the jiva become spiritualized into the internal potency of Krishna. Only someone who does not understand shastric conclusions would ever say something as ridiculous as the associates of Krishna in Goloka are marginal energy. There is no margin in Goloka and NO marginal energy at all. Not even one spark of marginal energy exists in Goloka - the most internal of all internal realms.

To explore the concept that the marginal jiva becomes internal potency with the perfection of devotional service, I am presenting this verse for consideration. So, if even the external energy which is inferior to the marginal potency can become transformed into internal potency by the will of Krishna, then how can anyone say that the marginal jiva cannot also be transformed into internal potency by the will of Krishna? The idea that marginal potency forever remains marginal potency cannot hold true because in the spiritual world there is no marginal plane. The marginal plane and the marginal jivas are situated between the spiritual and material worlds. As such, the marginal jivas cannot enter the spiritual world unless and until he has been transformed into internal energy of Krishna.

Vigraha, this topic is not for you to post your fairytale. It is a topic to discuss why Srila Prabhupada promoted the fairytale. You already have a number of topics where you can promote your fairytale. This topic is not a promotion for the fairytale. It is a discussion about why Srila Prabhupada promoted a fairytale about the jiva as fallen from serving Krishna in Goloka. Go promote your fairytale in your own topic. This topic is is not the place to promote your fairytale.

Raganuga-sadhana is a sadhana, but the term raganuga indicates that some push toward raga is coming up. So, raganuga-sadhana is the dawn of raga or a spontaneous attraction and in that sense is more than sadhana. It is the preliminary stage of bhava. When raganuga-sadhana awakens the loving sentiments, it is really much more than sadhana or practice.

Not yet. Not at this time. But, hopefully someday. One thing for sure, I am not going to try until I am ready to go all the way with heart and soul. No more half-hearted attempts for me. When the time is ripe, I will dive deep into reality; Sri Krishnasundara.